Polish President dead in plane crash [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Polish President dead in plane crash

Har-Tru
04-10-2010, 08:46 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm

Junkyard Racket
04-10-2010, 08:57 AM
:sad: Terrible news.

Fedicilous
04-10-2010, 08:58 AM
Third World War ahead.
Similar situation to Gavrilo Princip in 1914.

Jelena
04-10-2010, 09:02 AM
According to Polish google-news he is dead.

Luinir
04-10-2010, 09:18 AM
132 corpse...:sad:

B.z.A.
04-10-2010, 09:20 AM
Third World War ahead.
Similar situation to Gavrilo Princip in 1914.

Hope not. But that sure wasnt accident.

Nidhogg
04-10-2010, 09:23 AM
Absolutely terrible news, and naturally this will have huge political consequences.

The crash site: http://playrapport.se/#/video/1958695

scoobs
04-10-2010, 09:51 AM
RIP to him and the other victims.

Not somebody I shared much identity of political views with, but this a terrible event all the same.

Nathaliia
04-10-2010, 09:54 AM
88 people is the latest information. The plane was incredibly old and should have been replaced 20 years ago. A few years back our prime minister survived a crash. Several times they broke in the neverlands on deserts etc. Planes were old and dangerous. Even Cuba withdrew them from using. In May the officials were due to receive two brand new ones.............

Voo de Mar
04-10-2010, 10:03 AM
Absolutely terrible news, showing just how fragile is every single human life in chaos of events no matter which position a person possesses in a society. Dead people from left to right in the Polish politics, including a candidate for a president from the left, and the right wing president who would reelect later this year...

Voo de Mar
04-10-2010, 10:08 AM
Actually dead two Polish presidents, also Ryszard Kaczorowski, so-called "the last president in exile" (1989-1990). I'm not sure but maybe he was the oldest in the group (b. 1919).

alter ego
04-10-2010, 10:16 AM
I read on another forum that the russian officials told the pilots that the fog was too dense and that they should land back in Moscow or Minsk. But the polish officials on board told the pilots to force the landing. After 3 attempts the plane ended up in the forest near the airport.
Can anyone else confirm this ?

DanaKz
04-10-2010, 10:16 AM
My condolences to Polish people.

Nathaliia
04-10-2010, 10:19 AM
I read on another forum that the russian officials told the pilots that the fog was too dense and that they should land back in Moscow or Minsk. But the polish officials on board told the pilots to force the landing. After 3 attempts the plane ended up in the forest near the airport.
Can anyone else confirm this ?
About what the Russian officials told or not told, this will be investigated, but it's true there was the knowledge about the fog and there was an option to choose another airport rather than Smolensk military airport which wasn't prepared for receiving a big machine like the one that crashed. I think the significant symptoms were simply ignored.

Yes, it crashed during the next attempt of the landing, the back fell off and it started to burn after hitting a tree.

B.z.A.
04-10-2010, 10:22 AM
88 people is the latest information. The plane was incredibly old and should have been replaced 20 years ago. A few years back our prime minister survived a crash. Several times they broke in the neverlands on deserts etc. Planes were old and dangerous. Even Cuba withdrew them from using. In May the officials were due to receive two brand new ones.............

132

JolánGagó
04-10-2010, 10:26 AM
Terrible.

The guy was in his way to honor the thousands Polish officers murdered by Stalin in Katyn. Russia and Poland are simply not meant for each other...

Nathaliia
04-10-2010, 10:28 AM
According to Russian sources, 132 people.

According to Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 88.

Due to the big chaos nobody knows anything.

Voo de Mar
04-10-2010, 10:39 AM
88 people of Polish elites, 132 is connected with the whole number of dead people (pilots, stewardesses).

Bilbo
04-10-2010, 10:46 AM
holy shit :eek::eek:

my condolences to all the families and friends and of course all polish people :hug:

here in germany the elite also fly with old planes which are still from the DDR. they also had several problems in the past. they want to replace them in the next few weeks.

Bascule
04-10-2010, 10:57 AM
Terrible, terrible news, my condolences to the polish people.

Dersu Uzala
04-10-2010, 11:00 AM
This is terrible news.

A trip to attend the Katyn memorial service for the horrific 1940 Soviet massacre of over 20,000 Polish internees, including some 12,000 officers.

My condolences to the Polish president and the dignitaries families.

Bascule
04-10-2010, 11:11 AM
This is terrible news.

A trip to attend the Katyn memorial service for the horrific 1940 Soviet massacre of over 20,000 Polish internees, including some 12,000 officers.

My condolences to the Polish president and the dignitaries families.

What the irony...from now they'll have double memorial services there.

Bilbo
04-10-2010, 11:27 AM
I've read there have been 66 crashs with a Tupolev TU-154 since its built. Why are they still using them?

*Ljubica*
04-10-2010, 11:38 AM
My condolences to the Polish people at this sad time.

Voo de Mar
04-10-2010, 11:52 AM
I'm watching Polish news and feeling awfully :sad:

Jelena
04-10-2010, 12:10 PM
I'm watching Polish news and feeling awfully :sad:
I read Walesa said the complete political elite of the country has died. I saw a list of the passengers and have to agree.

Bascule
04-10-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm watching Polish news and feeling awfully :sad:

I'm so sorry.:sad:

Voo de Mar
04-10-2010, 12:19 PM
I'm so sorry.:sad:

Obviously 96 (the newest info) people for one tragedy isn't too much but it's a huge tragedy in the wider context of 2nd World War, this is overwhelming that people died trying to commemorate death of victims of the Katyn massacre in 1940 (22,000 killed). And yes, this is the huge irony, almost surrealistic tragedy :(

Bilbo
04-10-2010, 12:22 PM
seems like it was the pilot's fault ignoring a warning not to land there because of the heavy fog. they suggested to land in minsk or moscow instead but the crew decided to hold the course.

Nathaliia
04-10-2010, 12:23 PM
People who were on that plane desired the world to be aware of the Katyn war tragedy, through the uninterested western media and the ignorant societies. They achieved their goal in the most tragic way possible. Everybody talks about it now...

And yeah, the pilot was adviced to go elsewhere... but I'd say it's more complex. More people were deciding on this, it's impossible it was only due to the pilot.

Bilbo
04-10-2010, 12:30 PM
And yeah, the pilot was adviced to go elsewhere... but I'd say it's more complex. More people were deciding on this, it's impossible it was only due to the pilot.

the pilot has always the last word as long as the airport is still open for landing. fog is the worst that can happen to any pilot. he was trying to land 4 times. not good circumstances.

Black Adam
04-10-2010, 12:55 PM
Condoleances to all Poles regardless of whether they liked the policies of their President. Apparently many other key figures were lost as well including Army chief, this a cruel tragedy.


How will relations with Russia be like? I am trying my best to believe that the fog and age of plane were to blame but I also feel that this wasn't an "accident."

«Ivan»
04-10-2010, 01:04 PM
president 'n his twin bro, ex prime minister.sad

Voo de Mar
04-10-2010, 01:07 PM
president 'n his twin bro, ex prime minister.sad

Twin bro lives, died wife of the president.

Nathaliia
04-10-2010, 01:07 PM
the pilot has always the last word as long as the airport is still open for landing. fog is the worst that can happen to any pilot. he was trying to land 4 times. not good circumstances.
Not a long time ago a pilot refuse to land in Tbilisi in unsafe conditions and landed in Bashkiria and he got totally ripped off by the highest officials who were upset it was a time-waste for them. I don't exclude this pilot was under pressure for the same reasons. Of course if this was the case (and very likely it was) he should have ignored that pressure. Of course it will be investigated but for political reasons might be never made public, like it was after the Tbilisi incident.
Condoleances to all Poles regardless of whether they liked the policies of their President. Apparently many other key figures were lost as well including Army chief, this a cruel tragedy.


How will relations with Russia be like? I am trying my best to believe that the fog and age of plane were to blame but I also feel that this wasn't an "accident."
The relations are on the good course for some time already and I believe this tragedy will speed up the good things. The Russians had absolutely zero political interest of having Katyn reminded all over every year like it will happen now. Putin was designed as the boss of the investigation crew from the Russian side. They treat it very seriously, not to mention they warned the Polish side about risky landing conditions and made their Moscow airport available. Of course voices about Russian assasination are present among Polish internet discussions, but I think they come from some politically blind people. When Bierut (our first president after war) died in USSR, it was obvious. Now it's obvious it wasn't their thing.

FairWeatherFan
04-10-2010, 01:13 PM
Horrible news, there are few worse ways to die.

Voo de Mar
04-10-2010, 01:16 PM
The relations are on the good course for some time already and I believe this tragedy will speed up the good things. The Russians had absolutely zero political interest of having Katyn reminded all over every year like it will happen now. Putin was designed as the boss of the investigation crew from the Russian side. They treat it very seriously, not to mention they warned the Polish side about risky landing conditions and made their Moscow airport available. Of course voices about Russian assasination are present among Polish internet discussions, but I think they come from some politically blind people. When Bierut (our first president after war) died

Yes, all conspiracy theories are pointless in the true colors of this tragedy.

star
04-10-2010, 01:25 PM
Condolences to the Polish people. So very many deaths of national figures at one time is difficult.

Rita
04-10-2010, 01:49 PM
Tragic. :sad:
Condolences to the Polish nation.

buddyholly
04-10-2010, 02:07 PM
Hope not. But that sure wasnt accident.

Welcome to MTF's newest arse clown contender!

buddyholly
04-10-2010, 02:12 PM
And yeah, the pilot was adviced to go elsewhere... but I'd say it's more complex. More people were deciding on this, it's impossible it was only due to the pilot.

A plane in heavy fog hits trees short of the runway. What is impossible about that? It is probably the most common way airline accidents happen.

Dini
04-10-2010, 02:13 PM
My condolences to the Polish people and all affected. Tragic almost beyond belief.

tufani
04-10-2010, 02:21 PM
My deepest condolences and sympathy to the Polish people.

Nathaliia
04-10-2010, 02:21 PM
A plane in heavy fog hits trees short of the runway. What is impossible about that? It is probably the most common way airline accidents happen.
About who makes a decision of landing in such conditions with the most important people on the board. He took a few attempts to land before he finally crashed.

Like I mentioned, when the important people were flying to Tbilisi the pilot was impacted to land on a dangerous venue and he declined. This is a fact not negated by anyone in Poland. We don't know and will not know if he hadn't received an order to try to land just on time saving purposes. Yes, it is obvious he made a mistake during the landing; what I questioned is who really made a decision to land despite the difficulties and keep trying despite the difficulties growing. Maybe the pilot. Maybe not the pilot. He gets the final fault, not questioning this either.

gulzhan
04-10-2010, 03:08 PM
Condolences to the Polish people :sad:

Arkulari
04-10-2010, 04:09 PM
My condolences, this is a massive tragedy :sad:

pica_pica
04-10-2010, 04:35 PM
Condolences to Poland :sad: R.I.P. to all those who died.

Lee
04-10-2010, 04:38 PM
My condolences to all the families with members on board the plane and the Polish people. :sad:

Fee
04-10-2010, 05:07 PM
My husband wrote his Doctoral dissertation on Poland, he is familiar with many of the people who are reported to have been on this plane and quite stunned by this news. Our condolences to Poland, whether they agree or disagree politically everyone is impacted by this tragedy.

Aloimeh
04-10-2010, 05:11 PM
My deepest condolences to the Polish people.

I don't want to go into conspiracy theories, but I really think this was a (tragically ironic) accident. Russian-Polish relations have been improving recently and at this year's commemoration Putin and Tusk went together to Katyn and both gave speeches and laid wreathes.

Fee
04-10-2010, 05:53 PM
here in germany the elite also fly with old planes which are still from the DDR. they also had several problems in the past. they want to replace them in the next few weeks.

That's a shame. There are so many perfectly good unused commercial planes parked in the California and Arizona deserts since 2001. Surely they can be sold at a reasonable price to any government that needs them. What a waste.

Manon
04-10-2010, 06:07 PM
I'm speachless.

My condolences to all the families and the Polish people.

andy neyer
04-10-2010, 07:55 PM
How will relations with Russia be like? I am trying my best to believe that the fog and age of plane were to blame but I also feel that this wasn't an "accident."

Conspiracy theories: get set, go!

A_Skywalker
04-10-2010, 10:47 PM
I am so sorry for the polish president and I hope they get out of this crisis as soon as possible.

Ilovetheblues_86
04-10-2010, 10:55 PM
Tupolev, retire this junk.

KarlyM
04-10-2010, 11:36 PM
My condolences to the nation of Poland. Very sad news. :awww: :hug:

hallso
04-11-2010, 12:15 AM
my colleague was stewardess during that flight
we have met during tennis camp several years ago
sleep peacefully Natalia...

Nikki♥
04-11-2010, 11:23 AM
My deepest condolences. :sad:

Goldenoldie
04-11-2010, 12:38 PM
Thoughts and prayers from St Mary's Church, Hampden Park, England to the people of Poland, one of the most Christian countries on Earth.

May God comfort you all, especially users of this forum.

Requiescant in pace.
++++++++++++++++++++

orangehat
04-11-2010, 01:19 PM
Thoughts and prayers from St Mary's Church, Hampden Park, England to the people of Poland, one of the most Christian countries on Earth.

May God comfort you all, especially users of this forum.

Requiescant in pace.
++++++++++++++++++++

Isn't Poland predominantly Catholic?

elessar
04-11-2010, 02:37 PM
Isn't Poland predominantly Catholic?
Yes, so?

(Catholics are Christians too)

Garson007
04-11-2010, 04:42 PM
The question is, what cost-cutting idiot put them all on the same plane?

DartMarcus
04-13-2010, 12:41 PM
Such a tragedy. :sad:
We are all shocked in Russia. Just an accident? Old plane? Terrorist attack? Fog? Bad decision by the pilot? Russian revenge? Planned?
Condolences to everyone affected.

Nekromanta
04-13-2010, 01:08 PM
I've read in the freshest newspapers that there is a recording where the president is terrorizing the pilot because he didn't want a 1 hour + car journey.

They also said that he had wanted to fire the pilot before because he didn't want to land in a warzone. And that he was bossing around the pilot in general.

Nathaliia
04-13-2010, 01:11 PM
I've read in the freshest newspapers that there is a recording where the president is terrorizing the pilot because he didn't want a 1 hour + car journey.

They also said that he had wanted to fire the pilot before because he didn't want to land in a warzone. And that he was bossing around the pilot in general.
Which papers?
This was my instant version posted in the thread here soon after the tragedy :tape:

Nekromanta
04-13-2010, 01:15 PM
not english papers

Aenea
04-14-2010, 04:49 PM
My condolences to all Polish posters here. Only today I learned about this tragedy :sad:

ChinoRios4Ever
04-14-2010, 08:12 PM
Terrible man, all my condolences to the polish people and the polish posters here in MTF :sad:

Black Adam
04-15-2010, 01:06 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8620415.stm
Kaczynski burial plan causes split


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47644000/jpg/_47644809_009113964-1.jpg

Thousands have queued in Warsaw to pay tribute to Lech Kaczynski and his wife


A row has broken out over the decision to bury Polish President Lech Kaczynski in Wawel cathedral in Krakow - a place reserved for Poland's kings and heroes.

Hundreds have taken to the streets of the southern city in protest at the plan for a second consecutive night.

Thousands have joined an internet campaign against it. Mr Kaczynski died in a plane crash on Saturday along with his wife and many senior officials.
A date for a presidential election will be set after the funeral on Sunday.
Acclaimed Polish film director Andrzej Wajda dubbed the burial arrangements "misplaced" and "hastily made as emotions ran high", in an open letter published by the newspaper, Gazeta Wyborcza.

"Lech Kaczynski was an ordinary and good man, but there is no reason for him to lie in the Wawel among the kings of Poland and Marshal Jozef Pilsudski [the founder of modern-day Poland]," he said.
Officials said the site in a crypt close to Marshal Pilsudski was chosen by church leaders and the Kaczynski family, which include Mr Kaczynski's twin, Jaroslaw - the leader of Poland's opposition.

But Mr Wajda said the decision "will spark protests and could cause the deepest splits in Polish society since 1989".


Facebook protest
Hundreds of people staged a protest in front of the residence of Krakow's Archbishop, Stanislaw Dziwisz, on Tuesday evening, carrying banners reading: "Not Krakow, not Wawel", and "Are you sure he is the equal of kings?"

Late on Wednesday a second protest was held, as well as a smaller counter demonstration in favour of the plan.

A Facebook group called "No to the Kaczynskis' burial in Wawel" had attracted more than 26,000 members by Wednesday.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47644000/jpg/_47644828_009113928-1.jpg
The site of the crash is still being pored over by investigators


Many world leaders are to attend Sunday's funeral, including US President Barack Obama along with the leaders of Russia, France and Germany.

Polish officials have said that elections for a new president will be held in June.

In a parliamentary document they wrote that there were "two possible dates" - 13 or 20 June.

Poland's acting President, Bronislaw Komorowski, is expected to name the exact date after consulting political parties.

The bodies of the presidential couple have been lying in state together at the presidential palace in Warsaw.

They were among 96 people on board the Polish government jet that crashed in heavy fog while trying to land in the Smolensk region of Russia.
They had been travelling to attend a memorial service for Polish military officers and others massacred by Stalin's secret police at Katyn in 1940.
Other victims of the crash, whose bodies are believed to have been badly disfigured or burnt in the crash, are being identified by forensic scientists in Moscow.

A number of the dead have yet to be retrieved from the wreckage, officials said.

Russian investigators believe pilot error was to blame for the crash.
Air traffic controllers who handled the plane have been quoted as saying the Polish crew refused three times to heed advice to divert to another airport because of poor visibility.
What do poles here think about this?

Voo de Mar
04-15-2010, 02:50 AM
^ Typical Polish behavior, trying to find a problem only to have a reason to quarrel :o I didn't vote for Kaczyński and definitely wouldn't vote for him later this year if he had been trying to reelect but there's no problem for me where Kaczyński will be buried. There's no huge difference between being a king and a president, I mean it would be maybe highly controversial if a simple deputy would be bury in Wawel. Kaczyński was a president almost full cadence and died tragically, there's in some sense a background which explains this decision (it's tougher to explain why his wife will be buried along with him). The other thing is, if the most prominent politicians all over the world have to participate in this event, I think it's better for them to visit Kraków, a more pleasant city than Warsaw :D

Voo de Mar
04-15-2010, 02:54 AM
Obviously I don't see any problem in expressing a point of view but these protests are tasteless, especially that there's still a mourning in Poland (until his funeral).

Nathaliia
04-15-2010, 09:05 AM
^ Typical Polish behavior, trying to find a problem only to have a reason to quarrel :o I didn't vote for Kaczyński and definitely wouldn't vote for him later this year if he had been trying to reelect but there's no problem for me where Kaczyński will be buried. There's no huge difference between being a king and a president, I mean it would be maybe highly controversial if a simple deputy would be bury in Wawel. Kaczyński was a president almost full cadence and died tragically, there's in some sense a background which explains this decision (it's tougher to explain why his wife will be buried along with him). The other thing is, if the most prominent politicians all over the world have to participate in this event, I think it's better for them to visit Kraków, a more pleasant city than Warsaw :D
Agree 100% with everything you said.

This was so predictable barely 4 days after the tragedy Poland isn't united anymore, all the political cripples will come out and there will be people who object because objecting and protesting is their sense of living and they always do this against anything.

I couldn't care less about where he's gonna be buried; indeed the catastrophe was a tragedy and after 500 years the school trips will still remember it and will remember Katyn. Not really such a demonic thing to have him there.

hallso
04-15-2010, 10:20 AM
My opinion about place of their burial doesn't matter.
As well as opinion of any other person at this moment.
The decision has been made and the funeral will take place in Wawel, Krakow in few days. This is the fact and everybody should accept and respect that. Instead of that, people all over the world see that we protest and have such an useless discussion in the middle of the mourning, just few days after this huge catastrophy. That's really sad.

Other thing, that almost everyone forgets about, is how feels daughter of died president and his wife. She suddenly and tragically lost both parents. It's hard, even impossible to imagine her feelings. And what's more they will be buried over 300 kms from her city, in the place that has hundreds or thousands visitors every day. I'm sure that hurts more.
Finally, I'm sure she doesn't watch tv or listen radio these days. But probably she hears about all quarrels :o

Stensland
04-15-2010, 05:53 PM
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt4m1/politik/581/508723/text/

Die polnischen Behörden untersuchen auch einen ins Internet gestellten Amateurfilm, der von einem Unbekannten, der vor den Einsatzkräften an der Absturzstelle eintraf, gemacht wurde. Darauf sind brennende Trümmer der Maschine zu sehen, dann sind Schüsse zu hören, eine Stimme ruft auf Russisch: "Verschwindet hier!"

apparently there's a video by some guy who'd been around in the woods when the plane hit. he approached the scene with the burning wreckage and so on, suddenly you hear shots fired and someone telling him to "fuck off" in russian.

does anyone know anything about that?

Voo de Mar
04-15-2010, 06:42 PM
It's the info about this film. You can here some bangs at the end of the video but who knows it is? :shrug:

-DbLgBifsTU

Stensland
04-15-2010, 07:30 PM
hmm hardly anything substantial on there, that's true.