Berdych and Soderling are finally maturing [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Berdych and Soderling are finally maturing

FlavorNuts
04-02-2010, 12:34 AM
What do you expect from them in their careers?

They're virtually unbeatable when they're playing well, and yet they haven't even fulfilled their potential. They still have a lot of work to do dealing with low balls and learning when to come into net.

minh
04-02-2010, 12:36 AM
H2H is 4-2 for Robin, hope this is a nice match, cheer Robin up

Certinfy
04-02-2010, 12:37 AM
Hard to believe just over a year ago both were in the Sunrise challenger event :p

Geo
04-02-2010, 12:38 AM
It's nice to see, as both are very talented :yeah: If they are playing well on a consistent basis, a lot of the other top guys are gonna start losing more often :lol:

Voo de Mar
04-02-2010, 12:40 AM
Soderling virtually is 3rd best player in the world at the moment.

minh
04-02-2010, 12:43 AM
Hard to believe just over a year ago both were in the Sunrise challenger event :p
And robin won 61 61:D
Hope both play well, Tomaz is also good

paseo
04-02-2010, 12:43 AM
Soderling? yes. Berdych? we'll see.

Action Jackson
04-02-2010, 12:44 AM
Söderling has been very consistent from after RG.

Deivid23
04-02-2010, 12:46 AM
This thread won´t last more than 24 hours

Getta
04-02-2010, 12:49 AM
Söderling has been very consistent from after RG.

that upset on the big stage only served to pump him up.

andy neyer
04-02-2010, 12:57 AM
It's the Magnus Norman factor for Soderling. That guy was a giant in the mental department.

Jomp1
04-02-2010, 12:57 AM
Consistency is key word, gotta be up there week in and week out. The more big matches the better.

Nole fan
04-02-2010, 12:59 AM
Soderling is getting better and is a real threat to the Top 5, some poeple just don't want to see it...
On another subject, I think Verdasco is an underachiever. With the talent he's got, it's a crime that he hasn't won anything important yet. What's the problem with this guy? :shrug:

Kolya
04-02-2010, 01:06 AM
Soderling has established himself as a consistent top 10 player but Berdych still has to show more consistency.

.-Federers_Mate-.
04-02-2010, 01:19 AM
soderling kinda is,berdych not so much

Forehander
04-02-2010, 02:35 AM
Berdych needs to achieve more and raise consistency to be classed as maturing. His game is dangerous, always a dark horse so he can pull off surprises such as reaching QFs consecutively. If he can do it consistently then he's on his way up.

Everko
04-02-2010, 02:41 AM
Söderling has been very consistent from after RG.

Granollers says :wavey::wavey:

Pirata.
04-02-2010, 02:46 AM
On another subject, I think Verdasco is an underachiever. With the talent he's got, it's a crime that he hasn't won anything important yet. What's the problem with this guy? :shrug:

It's about 98% mental. Don't understand how he can be part-time coached by Darren Cahill yet still be such a mental midget. He played extremely well for the first half of 2009, and then it was pretty mediocre stuff once the US Open series rolled around. Too much potential there, but he peaked last year and probably won't be considered a major threat anymore, as much as I don't like to say it as a fan. :sad:

Ivanatis
04-02-2010, 02:48 AM
Soderling has made the crucial step last year.

And Berdych because he's reached the semis of a Non-GS? Negative.

Black Adam
04-02-2010, 02:59 AM
Hard to believe just over a year ago both were in the Sunrise challenger event :p
I know right! Their ball-bashing has been terrifyingly consistent since then:rolleyes:

shotgun
04-02-2010, 03:09 AM
Soderling is at the peak of his career right now, but it makes sense if you look at their age. A tennis player usually peaks at 24-26 years old.

The exceptions are players whose game is built upon fitness. Those peak earlier.

brent-o
04-02-2010, 04:12 AM
Soderling is getting better and is a real threat to the Top 5, some poeple just don't want to see it...
On another subject, I think Verdasco is an underachiever. With the talent he's got, it's a crime that he hasn't won anything important yet. What's the problem with this guy? :shrug:

Verdasco has always seemed to me to be an idiot at constructing points. So that could be a factor.

Or Levy
04-02-2010, 05:17 AM
Well, for that to be true, one of them has to win the event. I think Birdy gave it everything he has, and he isn't going to beat Soderling. So Andy will have a shot at Rafa, and then Soderling would. I hope one of them can clinch it, but I'm thinking this title is Rafa's to lose.

FlavorNuts
04-02-2010, 07:08 AM
And Berdych because he's reached the semis of a Non-GS? Negative.Results don't matter, what matters is that he's played extremely well in his last couple tournaments with a lot of confidence and positive thought. If he continues like this, the big results will inevitably come. The question is how big will the results be.

Action Jackson
04-02-2010, 07:29 AM
Results don't matter, what matters is that he's played extremely well in his last couple tournaments with a lot of confidence and positive thought. If he continues like this, the big results will inevitably come. The question is how big will the results be.

Is that the question? Berdych until he actually does well in a Slam or can produce a consistent series of results over a few months, then he will as what Forehander described.

Action Jackson
04-02-2010, 07:30 AM
Granollers says :wavey::wavey:

Never does well in Australia, therefore he has still been consistent.

tennizen
04-02-2010, 07:39 AM
Can't put both of them in the same category. Soderling has performed very well for nearly one year. More proof is needed for Berdych.

opeth84
04-02-2010, 08:14 AM
Yep i agree Soderling certainly has which has been a nice suprise. Im not sold on Berdych yet. It's not the first time he's strung a few good weeks together before falling off the face of the planet again.

A_Skywalker
04-02-2010, 09:14 AM
Berdych hasnt matured, a win against Fed doesnt automatically mean that, he needs to stop losing to players worser than him and then he can be called matured player.

Bilbo
04-02-2010, 10:11 AM
soderling yes, berdych no

Malul
04-02-2010, 10:42 AM
Since Robin left these second and third rounds against top 5-players he is at his right place right now,i think he can reach a career high top 3 someday but he has to stop playing a million tourneys every season,his body must cope!

Berdych is a top 10-player if he swaps coach with Toad ;)

and may I ask for rubberrrr´s opinion about Toad?

Certinfy
04-02-2010, 10:55 AM
Lets wait until the end of the year or something to see if Berdych has matured :o

Bilbo
04-02-2010, 10:58 AM
Lets wait until the end of the year or something to see if Berdych has matured :o

what kind of results does he need to call him matured in your opinion? i mean we have to draw a line somewhere which goes for anybody of course.

Certinfy
04-02-2010, 11:01 AM
what kind of results does he need to call him matured in your opinion? i mean we have to draw a line somewhere which goes for anybody of course.
Well maybe another GS QF, getting back into the top 12, reaching a masters final, winning an ATP 500, I dunno, something more than he's achieved in the whole of 2008 and 2009.

Acer
04-02-2010, 11:39 AM
As if Berdych has never had decent tournaments that he followed with horrific performaces before.

Ivanatis
04-02-2010, 12:43 PM
Results don't matter, what matters is that he's played extremely well in his last couple tournaments with a lot of confidence and positive thought. If he continues like this, the big results will inevitably come. The question is how big will the results be.

We're talking about sb. who reached one R16 in his last 4 GS-events. He can prove it at Wimbledon or NY. In Paris, he surely won't. Otherwise he's exactly where he was almost 5 years ago.

rocketassist
04-02-2010, 12:46 PM
Granollers says :wavey::wavey:

:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:

Certinfy
04-02-2010, 12:51 PM
Australian Open 2010:

R1: Granollers def. Soderling
R2: Korolev def. Berdych :lol:

We're talking about sb. who reached one R16 in his last 4 GS-events. He can prove it at Wimbledon or NY. In Paris, he surely won't. Otherwise he's exactly where he was almost 5 years ago.
If he is going to prove it at a GS, Wimbledon is his best chance IMO.

Black Adam
04-02-2010, 12:53 PM
No maturing. Just more consistent ball bashing.

jcempire
04-02-2010, 01:14 PM
Berdych
you go

jcempire
04-02-2010, 01:16 PM
No maturing. Just more consistent ball bashing.

LOL

No maturing for a guy who beated Nadal in RG last year?????????

oranges
04-02-2010, 01:39 PM
We're talking about sb. who reached one R16 in his last 4 GS-events. He can prove it at Wimbledon or NY. In Paris, he surely won't. Otherwise he's exactly where he was almost 5 years ago.

That's some selective data presentation. Making 4th round is not the issue, he has ten or so, two last season. The issue is that he shouldn't be satisfied with 4th rounds.

Bilbo
04-02-2010, 01:45 PM
That's some selective data presentation. Making 4th round is not the issue, he has ten or so, two last season. The issue is that he shouldn't be satisfied with 4th rounds.

4th round means round of last 16. why shouldn't a top20 player be satisfied? it's not like he's a top10 player or plays like it over several months.

oranges
04-02-2010, 01:50 PM
4th round means round of last 16. why shouldn't a top20 player be satisfied? it's not like he's a top10 player or plays like it over several months.

Just to annoy you is reason enough to do better. Other than that, because he can do better. Ranking is based on the results, not the other way around. Perhaps you've pushed it deep into unconscious, but he was also top 10

Bilbo
04-02-2010, 01:52 PM
Just to annoy you is reason enough to do better. Other than that, because he can do better. Ranking is based on the results, not the other way around. Perhaps you've pushed it deep into unconscious, but he was also top 10

i know he was top10 but only for a short time which is reasonable. berdych is a solid top20 player but not more than that imo. on the other side soderling is a much better player.

oranges
04-02-2010, 02:10 PM
i know he was top10 but only for a short time which is reasonable. berdych is a solid top20 player but not more than that imo. on the other side soderling is a much better player.

What part of a couple of QFs and runs like this one would take him close to, if not inside, top 10 again don't you understand exactly? He absolutely must not do it because you don't want it? BTW, Soderling was no better only a year ago. In fact he was worse, with no 4th rounds in GS IIRC.

Everko
04-02-2010, 02:13 PM
:bs: :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:

what? it happened. Were you blacked out for January?

rocketassist
04-02-2010, 02:16 PM
what? it happened. Were you blacked out for January?

It doesn't mean he's not a consistent player does it though?

That's like saying Novak wasn't consistent in 08 cause he lost to Safin at Wimbledon.

Orka_n
04-02-2010, 02:33 PM
It doesn't mean he's not a consistent player does it though?

That's like saying Novak wasn't consistent in 08 cause he lost to Safin at Wimbledon.You're actually using logical arguments with this guy? He's immune to them. :o

Everko, this thread had an almost serious tone before you showed up. Please leave.

tennisfaNo1
04-02-2010, 03:29 PM
soda yes - cuz of magnus norman
berdych - we'll see

Nidhogg
04-05-2010, 11:29 AM
We can compare them.

They are two tall, big guys who can play pretty well on all the surfaces around today, and they hit hard from both wings. Modern day powerhitters, if you will.

They both excel at generating their own pace, but I give Söderling the edge when it comes to preying on high balls off the forehand. It's pretty logical, given that he has a more extreme grip. Both hit the FH CC well. I'm not crazy about the off FH from Berdych, but at times it's scary. Söd uses his BH DTL as more of a weapon.

The choice of shots is not always the best. In Söderling's case, when playing the likes of Federer, he often hits shots without any real adress, as the CC FH and DTL BH are pretty natural rally shots for him (which comes in handy against Nadal). He can definetely take the Fed FH on, but he has to go there with heat and good precision. The matchup of Fed with all his variety takes him out of his comfort zone, and of course that doesn't help when going for the right shots either.

Berdych moves easier around the court, defends slightly better, and has a wider array of shots. He has better overall feel when it comes to netplay, dropshots and lobs, etc. They are about equal when it comes to slicing the ball. None of them excel at it, but they have the shot at their disposal. The execution from both in these sort of touch shots is very up and down, and they don't always go for the right choice of shots.
Neither are natural volleyers, so the transition game when moving up towards the net isn't always a sight for the gods. Sometimes it's executed pretty well, other times it's laughable. I give Berdych the edge here.

Neither guy is a big fan of the wind, which is only logical as they play a game with very little margin for error. Their average net clearance is around 65 cm, which is like 40 cm lower than a player like Nadal.

Söderling has a better first and second serve. The percentage for getting the first delivery in is slightly in favour of Söd, but only just. Söd has more variation in his serve and can use his second serve as a weapon to a greater extent. It's got good kick, and he's capable of getting a fair share of winners on his second delivery. Neither player is all about hitting aces.

The impression I've got is that Söd is more aggressive on the return. Making aggressive returns just like missing a fair share of them is a part of the equation for him, as he's not interested in wasting energy on too many long rallies. He want's to take charge in most points from the start. Berdych probably returns better than Söd off the forehand.

I guess I'll run my take on their mental fortitudes later on, cause that's where it gets really funny. :lol:

stebs
04-05-2010, 12:06 PM
What part of a couple of QFs and runs like this one would take him close to, if not inside, top 10 again don't you understand exactly? He absolutely must not do it because you don't want it? BTW, Soderling was no better only a year ago. In fact he was worse, with no 4th rounds in GS IIRC.

Berdych may make a run and get close to top 10 but who of this group does he have the game to really displace? Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Del Potro, Davydenko, Roddick, Soderling, Cilic, Tsonga, Gonzalez, Verdasco.

IMO Berdych is only capable of being as good as these guys in short spells. He is an ON/OFF kind of player because he plays with a very low margin and whilst he just had a fortnight where he was very much ON rather than OFF there is currently no reason to suppose he should suddenly become consistent when he never has been in the past.

oranges
04-05-2010, 12:23 PM
Berdych may make a run and get close to top 10 but who of this group does he have the game to really displace? Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Del Potro, Davydenko, Roddick, Soderling, Cilic, Tsonga, Gonzalez, Verdasco.

IMO Berdych is only capable of being as good as these guys in short spells. He is an ON/OFF kind of player because he plays with a very low margin and whilst he just had a fortnight where he was very much ON rather than OFF there is currently no reason to suppose he should suddenly become consistent when he never has been in the past.

First of all, that was a response to Bilbo, who can't grasp why he shouldn't be too happy with 4th rounds in slams. As for top 10, as stated in the thread about it, I'm not sure he will show the necessary consistency throughout the season, but there are indications it might happen. A lot more variety and a lot more resilience when things are not going his way lately. To what extent that will bear fruit remains to be seen, but IMO the lower half of top 10 is an open possibility for a lot of players and there will probably be a lot of shuffling around from 7-8 to 15 throughout the season.

Nole fan
04-05-2010, 02:11 PM
Berdych may make a run and get close to top 10 but who of this group does he have the game to really displace? Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Del Potro, Davydenko, Roddick, Soderling, Cilic, Tsonga, Gonzalez, Verdasco.

IMO Berdych is only capable of being as good as these guys in short spells. He is an ON/OFF kind of player because he plays with a very low margin and whilst he just had a fortnight where he was very much ON rather than OFF there is currently no reason to suppose he should suddenly become consistent when he never has been in the past.

+1. :yeah:

stebs
04-05-2010, 05:29 PM
there will probably be a lot of shuffling around from 7-8 to 15 throughout the season.

Fair enough, agree to disagree. IMO 7 & 8 (comprised of any two of Roddick, Davydenko & Soderling) are comfortably better than any other player in the top 20 and will only drop in ranking if injuries force it to happen.

Certinfy
04-05-2010, 05:31 PM
If Berdych has a good clay court season then fair enough he is maturing, if he doesn't, then probably not :o

FlavorNuts
06-01-2010, 05:48 PM
Discuss.

Certinfy
06-01-2010, 05:48 PM
I have no idea what to say now!

Action Jackson
06-01-2010, 05:51 PM
If Berdych has a good clay court season then fair enough he is maturing, if he doesn't, then probably not :o

That answers the question.

Jomp1
06-01-2010, 05:54 PM
I'm so glad they've both stopped wasting their talent.

holagirl56
06-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Berdych may make a run and get close to top 10 but who of this group does he have the game to really displace? Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, Del Potro, Davydenko, Roddick, Soderling, Cilic, Tsonga, Gonzalez, Verdasco.

IMO Berdych is only capable of being as good as these guys in short spells. He is an ON/OFF kind of player because he plays with a very low margin and whilst he just had a fortnight where he was very much ON rather than OFF there is currently no reason to suppose he should suddenly become consistent when he never has been in the past.

I think Gonzalez and Verdasco have been pretty mediocre this season so far. Cilic is also a newcomer to the top 10 and may not yet have adjusted to the new expectations on his shoulders. I think those three are most likely to be replaced by Berdych in the top 10...how long they'll be replaced is another question.

ShotmaKer
06-01-2010, 06:32 PM
both are playing really good now. the outcome of the SF is far from being a given.

tennishero
06-01-2010, 06:40 PM
I think Gonzalez and Verdasco have been pretty mediocre this season so far. Cilic is also a newcomer to the top 10 and may not yet have adjusted to the new expectations on his shoulders. I think those three are most likely to be replaced by Berdych in the top 10...how long they'll be replaced is another question.

i agree about gonzo but i think verdasco has had one of his best seasons so far

stebs
06-01-2010, 06:44 PM
Looks like I might've been wrong about Berdych, really looks like he is stepping his game up. It can only be a good thing for the game.

holagirl56
06-01-2010, 06:59 PM
i agree about gonzo but i think verdasco has had one of his best seasons so far

Eh, looking at his results here:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Fernando-Verdasco.aspx?t=pa

I think they're rather inconsistent. He has good weeks where he can make SF/F of tournaments and then others where he goes out early. I find his Slam results really not worthy of a top 10 player, with his best being a QF since his (sole) SF at Australia.

I'd also like to add Tsonga to the list of players that are exchangeable from the top 10. He's had issues with fitness/injuries and is probably the most likely in the foreseeable future to drop from the top 10.

Certinfy
06-01-2010, 09:00 PM
I think it's fair to say yes for the both of them now.

yuri27
06-01-2010, 09:03 PM
Soderling is getting better and is a real threat to the Top 5, some poeple just don't want to see it...
On another subject, I think Verdasco is an underachiever. With the talent he's got, it's a crime that he hasn't won anything important yet. What's the problem with this guy? :shrug:

What about Gasquet???
Considering the hype he got and what he achieved at 18-19,he is even more an underachiever than Verdasco.

oranges
06-01-2010, 09:12 PM
Truly NID that richie21 will find a way to introduce Gasquet into the discussion. Against my better judgment, but did it never occur to you that the hype when he was a teenager was actually a bad thing, not something helpful?

Sapeod
06-01-2010, 09:19 PM
What about Gasquet???
Considering the hype he got and what he achieved at 18-19,he is even more an underachiever than Verdasco.
This thread isn't about Gasquet, richie21. It's about Berdych and Soderling.

MalwareDie
06-01-2010, 09:27 PM
Why did richie21 make this account? Why not just post on the original account?

yuri27
06-01-2010, 09:45 PM
This thread isn't about Gasquet, richie21. It's about Berdych and Soderling.

Who the hell is that Richie21??:rolleyes::rolleyes:
And the guy talked about Verdasco.

Why did richie21 make this account? Why not just post on the original account?

Just a suggestion: perhaps that i'm not that Richie21 everyone is talking about.

MalwareDie
06-01-2010, 09:45 PM
Who the hell is that Richie21??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You are not fooling anyone.

Sapeod
06-01-2010, 10:23 PM
Who the hell is that Richie21??:rolleyes::rolleyes:
And the guy talked about Verdasco.



Just a suggestion: perhaps that i'm not that Richie21 everyone is talking about.
Richie21 is you, it's clear as daylight.
That guy I was quoting was you, and you were talking about Gasquet.

As Malware said, you're not fooling anyone.

cobalt60
06-01-2010, 11:46 PM
If one of them actually wins the FO then I might agree.

Action Jackson
10-14-2010, 03:34 AM
Both of them should make the TMC, then again anything can happen in this sport.

Topspindoctor
10-14-2010, 08:46 AM
IMO Soderking can sneak a RG in his career - his clay tennis, when on, is scary. HE just needs to get rid of nerves in finals. Berdych, I don't see winning a slam.

Surcouf
10-14-2010, 08:48 AM
IMO Soderking can sneak a RG in his career - his clay tennis, when on, is scary. HE just needs to get rid of nerves in finals. Berdych, I don't see winning a slam.

Soderling has no chance to beat an healty Nadal. He lives from one fluke and is massively overrated.

Action Jackson
10-15-2010, 02:00 AM
Soderling has no chance to beat an healty Nadal. He lives from one fluke and is massively overrated.

Yes, fluking a GS final twice.

cristalmeister
01-03-2011, 10:22 PM
Yes, fluking a GS final twice.

made me laugh irl. thumbs up!

Seingeist
01-03-2011, 10:24 PM
Peculiar thread bump. Perhaps we should wait to see how they do at AO.

superganon
01-03-2011, 10:42 PM
soderling is for sure but berdych is seems like a fluke...he cant deliver after big runs like soda....like after paris 2005 and then wimbeldon 2010

i think berdych will now stay around top 10 but he is currently not deserving a nr 6 world ranking....a nr 10 is better suited imo

Sapeod
01-03-2011, 10:51 PM
Soderling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Berdych.

star
01-03-2011, 10:57 PM
Peculiar thread bump. Perhaps we should wait to see how they do at AO.

It reminds me of the old days. Peculiar 2 bumps.

elena_k
01-04-2011, 12:03 AM
i think berdych has a better all-round game but soderling is stronger mentally and has more consistent gorundstrokes

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 12:26 AM
If by maturing you mean not being able to beat the top 4 then I'd say yes.

Berdych couldn't beat the top 4 to save his life in a big match.

oranges
01-04-2011, 12:30 AM
If by maturing you mean not being able to beat the top 4 then I'd say yes.

Berdych couldn't beat the top 4 to save his life in a big match.

Were you banned from watching tennis too for a year or did he play Schuttler en route to the Wimbledon final?

Allez
01-04-2011, 12:31 AM
If by maturing you mean not being able to beat the top 4 then I'd say yes.

Berdych couldn't beat the top 4 to save his life in a big match.

I know you're not saying playing Roger at Wimbledon is not a big match nor are you suggesting that Roger is not top 4 material. You're a reasonable man.

Baghdatis#1
01-04-2011, 12:37 AM
Well Berdych still acts like a 6 year old so I wouldn't call him mature :rolleyes:

elena_k
01-04-2011, 12:39 AM
If by maturing you mean not being able to beat the top 4 then I'd say yes.

Berdych couldn't beat the top 4 to save his life in a big match.

Berdych def Federer 6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 6-4 Wimbledon Quarter Final
Berdych def Djokovic 6-3, 7-6, 6-3 Wimbledon Semi-Final
Berdych def Murray 6-4, 7-5, 6-3 French Open 4th round

These were all big matches that berdych won and these players are in top 4!!!

Allez
01-04-2011, 12:42 AM
Berdych def Federer 6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 6-4 Wimbledon Quarter Final
Berdych def Djokovic 6-3, 7-6, 6-3 Wimbledon Semi-Final
Berdych def Murray 6-4, 7-5, 6-3 French Open 4th round

These were all big matches that berdych won and these players are in top 4!!!
I'm not sure Glenn considers those players the real top 4. Maybe Tomas needs to beat Guga, Pete Sampras, Ivan Lendl and Borg for him to be happy :o

Kat_YYZ
01-04-2011, 01:04 AM
Berdych def Federer 6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 6-4 Wimbledon Quarter Final
Berdych def Djokovic 6-3, 7-6, 6-3 Wimbledon Semi-Final
Berdych def Murray 6-4, 7-5, 6-3 French Open 4th round

These were all big matches that berdych won and these players are in top 4!!!

yes, but after Toronto he lost in the first or second round of every tournament he played. That's almost half the season! He and Verdasco were competing for Worst Player of the hardcourt season. If he'd never accomplished anything, we wouldn't be talking about him in the first place. But he followed up big results with 6 months of total crap.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 01:12 AM
Berdych def Federer 6-4, 3-6, 6-1, 6-4 Wimbledon Quarter Final
Berdych def Djokovic 6-3, 7-6, 6-3 Wimbledon Semi-Final
Berdych def Murray 6-4, 7-5, 6-3 French Open 4th round

These were all big matches that berdych won and these players are in top 4!!!

Murray on clay doesn't count.

None of these matches were finals.

Djokovic is awful on grass.

Frauderer was just a fluke.

After these seemingly big wins, he just bent over for Nadull pathetically.

Snowwy
01-04-2011, 01:19 AM
Murray on clay doesn't count.

None of these matches were finals.

Djokovic is awful on grass.

Frauderer was just a fluke.

After these seemingly big wins, he just bent over for Nadull pathetically.

Seems like a sad attempt to discredit three very good results.

Which players have beaten Novak in Wimbledon the last few years? Federer?

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 01:44 AM
Seems like a sad attempt to discredit three very good results.

Which players have beaten Novak in Wimbledon the last few years? Federer?

Not counting the retirements?

Haas? Safin?

oranges
01-04-2011, 01:46 AM
Not counting the retirements?

Haas? Safin?

Last time I checked, they both lost to Federer sadly. Oh right, we're talking only about the part that fits your agenda, sorry.

Snowwy
01-04-2011, 02:05 AM
Not counting the retirements?

Haas? Safin?

These three don't lose to clowns at Wimbledon. Their last five losses. Almost all GS finalists

Novak

Berdych
Haas
Safin
Nadal
Ancic

Murray

Nadal
Roddick
Nadal
Baghdatis
Nalbandian

Federer

Berdych
Nadal
Ancic
Henman
Kafelnikov

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 04:42 AM
Last time I checked, they both lost to Federer sadly. Oh right, we're talking only about the part that fits your agenda, sorry.

So. What?

If Faker were that good he wouldn't have been humiliated by Safin on grass. On grass.

These three don't lose to clowns at Wimbledon. Their last five losses. Almost all GS finalists

Novak

Berdych
Haas
Safin
Nadal
Ancic

Murray

Nadal
Roddick
Nadal
Baghdatis
Nalbandian

Federer

Berdych
Nadal
Ancic
Henman
Kafelnikov

You're talking only about Wimbledon but you used other matches as example.

Faker is awful on grass, Murray is just a general quitter and his losses to Nadull at Wimbledon are stupendous fiascos and Frauderer's match was a fluke.

oranges
01-04-2011, 04:56 AM
So. What?

If Faker were that good he wouldn't have been humiliated by Safin on grass. On grass.



He didn't beat just Djokovic and Federer was in Snowwy's question too, but you chose to play dumb for the second time. Congrats. Bottom line is, he beat 3 out of the top 4 in later stages of slams. You have no point, but you'll continue parroting your stuff and we'll all pretend you have one because there's only so much time one can lose in futility.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 05:00 AM
He didn't beat just Djokovic and Federer was in Snowwy's question too, but you chose to play dumb for the second time. Congrats. Bottom line is, he beat 3 out of the top 4 in later stages of slams. You have no point, but you'll continue parroting your stuff and we'll all pretend you have one because there's only so much time one can lose in futility.

:bs:

He has 3 huge flukes in an otherwise choke-filled career and now he's maturing? :rolleyes:

This is a guy who can't win a set off a moonballer doesn't matter the surface. ;) This is a guy who can't win a GS final playing against Montanes and serving 6/0 6/0 5/0 40-0. A major choker. A guy who can't hit a topspin second serve.

Berdych isn't a bad player but he's just a huge brainless choker.

oranges
01-04-2011, 05:02 AM
:zzz: Perhaps you'd like to borrow the Nadaltard excuse and claim they were all injured, three times a fluke makes you sound even more ridiculous.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 05:03 AM
:zzz: Perhaps you'd like to borrow the Nadaltard excuse and claim they were all injured, three times a fluke makes you sound even more ridiculous.

Two then.

Beating Murray on clay is hardly an accomplishment.

oranges
01-04-2011, 05:16 AM
Like I said, you've obviously been banned from tennis altogether. Otherwise, you'd add the ones in masters yourself. I mean it's not as if you're just pigheaded and prejudiced and can't take in new info and new developments and acknowledge them. That would be idiotic.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 02:21 PM
Like I said, you've obviously been banned from tennis altogether. Otherwise, you'd add the ones in masters yourself. I mean it's not as if you're just pigheaded and prejudiced and can't take in new info and new developments and acknowledge them. That would be idiotic.

He can't beat Nadull the moonballer anymore. That's a fiasco for a guy with his game. Sorry.

oranges
01-04-2011, 02:34 PM
You're beyond pathetic :lol: You're changing tunes every few minutes, started with can't beat top 4 in an important match, might I remind you.

Lleyton_
01-04-2011, 02:49 PM
Berdych is a gutless punk. He won zero titles in his best year :worship:

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 02:50 PM
You're beyond pathetic :lol: You're changing tunes every few minutes, started with can't beat top 4 in an important match, might I remind you.

Well is Nadull outside the top 4? Is a GS final not an important match?

I stand by everything I said.

The only relevant match to this discussion is the one against Frauderer and it was a fluke, pure and simple. Check their H2H and tell me it wasn't a fluke.

Seingeist
01-04-2011, 02:52 PM
Djokovic is awful on grass.

Frauderer was just a fluke.

Yeah, he is awful on grass. Like, 2-time Wimbledon-Semis awful. I don't know why he even bothers to play it.

And whenever someone says "fluke" in these forums, it is pretty much synonymous with, "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about; please disregard my nonsensical ravings."

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 03:01 PM
Yeah, he is awful on grass. Like, 2-time Wimbledon-Semis awful. I don't know why he even bothers to play it.

And whenever someone says "fluke" in these forums, it is pretty much synonymous with, "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about; please disregard my nonsensical ravings."

Awful as in Wimbledon isn't real grass anymore so it doesn't matter if he made two fluke semifinals before either quitting or losing.

Seingeist
01-04-2011, 03:05 PM
Awful as in Wimbledon isn't real grass anymore so it doesn't matter if he made two fluke semifinals before either quitting or losing.

How MTF managed to survive for a year without the fruitful contributions from a stunning tennis intellect like this is anyone's guess.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 03:18 PM
How MTF managed to survive for a year without the fruitful contributions from a stunning tennis intellect like this is anyone's guess.

I'm sure a Fakervictard is the best person to pass judgement on other people's intellectual capacity when it comes to tennis. :lol:

Dougie
01-04-2011, 03:39 PM
So. What?

If Faker were that good he wouldn't have been humiliated by Safin on grass. On grass.




[QUOTE=GlennMirnyi;10641951]Awful as in Wimbledon isn't real grass anymore so it doesn't matter if he made two fluke semifinals before either quitting or losing.[/QUOTE

So when Djokovic loses at Wimbledon, it´s because he sucks on grass? But when he makes it to the sf´s, it´s because Wimbledon isn´t real grass?

oranges
01-04-2011, 03:41 PM
Well is Nadull outside the top 4? Is a GS final not an important match?

I stand by everything I said.

The only relevant match to this discussion is the one against Frauderer and it was a fluke, pure and simple. Check their H2H and tell me it wasn't a fluke.

You always do, having a point or not :lol: Did I say it's pathetic meandering in what it is you're trying to say? Might I remind you the topic is whether the two are maturing. If you can't see it as happening, you desperately need something to facilitate brain function. Now, I'm off. Have fun playing the big boy.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 03:52 PM
You always do, having a point or not :lol: Did I say it's pathetic meandering in what it is you're trying to say? Might I remind you the topic is whether the two are maturing. If you can't see it as happening, you desperately need something to facilitate brain function. Now, I'm off. Have fun playing the big boy.

I'm playing the realist.

You're playing the idealist. You wish they were maturing, therefore you try to come up with anything to prove it.

Soderling has actually matured a bit but still can't beat top players in finals. Berdych had a couple of flukes.

Snowwy
01-04-2011, 03:54 PM
I'm playing the realist.

You're playing the idealist. You wish they were maturing, therefore you try to come up with anything to prove it.

Soderling has actually matured a bit but still can't beat top players in finals. Berdych had a couple of flukes.

Can a player be matured but still not win tournaments any big tournaments? Cuz if not the list of mature players on the ATP is very small and it seems that is what you are saying here.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 03:54 PM
[QUOTE=GlennMirnyi;10641951]Awful as in Wimbledon isn't real grass anymore so it doesn't matter if he made two fluke semifinals before either quitting or losing.[/QUOTE

So when Djokovic loses at Wimbledon, it´s because he sucks on grass? But when he makes it to the sf´s, it´s because Wimbledon isn´t real grass?

It's both actually.

He has only made it to the SFs because it's not real grass and he sucks even at this bizarre green thing they laid at Wimbledon.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 03:57 PM
Can a player be matured but still not win tournaments any big tournaments? Cuz if not the list of mature players on the ATP is very small and it seems that is what you are saying here.

Soderling is just a few matches short of reaching #4. In that position, he should be winning big tournaments, sorry.

Berdych hasn't matured - he's actually benefitting from chokes and flukes. He shouldn't even be compared to Soderling.

Orka_n
01-04-2011, 05:03 PM
Soderling is just a few matches short of reaching #4. In that position, he should be winning big tournaments, sorry.Soderling won 2 tournaments in 2010 (one masters 1000 and one 500). He made 5 finals overall.
Djokovic also won 2 tourneys last year (two 500s). He made 4 finals.
Murray also won 2 tourneys last year (two masters 1000s). He made 4 finals.

So basically, by your logic, none of these guys should be in the top 5. :rolleyes: Your argument is retarded.

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 06:11 PM
Soderling won 2 tournaments in 2010 (one masters 1000 and one 500). He made 5 finals overall.
Djokovic also won 2 tourneys last year (two 500s). He made 4 finals.
Murray also won 2 tourneys last year (two masters 1000s). He made 4 finals.

So basically, by your logic, none of these guys should be in the top 5. :rolleyes: Your argument is retarded.

Well you're not counting their GS results.

What I mean is that I'll believe in these players somehow maturing when they win a GS. Soderling should've won one already. 2010's Wimbledon was a joke.

oranges
01-04-2011, 06:25 PM
What a joke and how gracious of you to grant that at least slam winners are matured/maturing players :haha:

cristalmeister
01-04-2011, 06:27 PM
What a joke and how gracious of you to grant that at least slam winners are matured/maturing players :haha:

seconded!

Orka_n
01-04-2011, 08:54 PM
Well you're not counting their GS results.Soderling GS results of 2010: R1 (injury in AO), F, QF, QF.
Djokovic GS results: QF, QF, SF, F.
Murray GS results: F, R4, SF, R3.

Novak did best but Soderling is obviously a worthy top 5. Robin has lost to Fedal in the last 3 slams. Are you done talking shit now?

What I mean is that I'll believe in these players somehow maturing when they win a GS. Soderling should've won one already. 2010's Wimbledon was a joke.For sure, losing to Nadal in a slam is proof of being an immature player.

:banghead:

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 09:00 PM
Soderling GS results of 2010: R1 (injury in AO), F, QF, QF.
Djokovic GS results: QF, QF, SF, F.
Murray GS results: F, R4, SF, R3.

Novak did best but Soderling is obviously a worthy top 5. Robin has lost to Fedal in the last 3 slams. Are you done talking shit now?

For sure, losing to Nadal in a slam is proof of being an immature player.

:banghead:

Proof of being a mug actually.

Again, I'm NOT saying Soderling (or anyone in the top ten for that matter) doesn't belong in the top 5. What I'm saying is that they must prove they must win a GS to prove his "maturity". He's up there with the best, he might as well act like one. ;)

Kat_YYZ
01-04-2011, 09:22 PM
you guys are missing the point; it's not about the FO/Wimbledon results -- it's about the 6 months of awful tennis afterwards (well, after Toronto). The only reason he rose from #8 to #6 after Wimbledon was because other people (JMDP and Davydenko) lost big points and dropped out. He 'announced himself' with big wins, then just flaked out for half a season.

Tutu
01-04-2011, 09:26 PM
Oh, GlennMirnyi is back. :hearts: As good as any incentive to start posting more again. WTA RULZ!

And Re: this topic. I think Tomas will go on to leapfrog Sod for good. Better movement, perfect technique, cleaner ballstriking and more comfortable in the forecourt. The sophomore slump is OVA. Bring on 2011.

Allez
01-04-2011, 10:11 PM
Oh, GlennMirnyi is back. :hearts: As good as any incentive to start posting more

I knew the fabulously frustrating GlennMirnyi was popular but this is just :speakles: Though he so enjoys pushing buttons & most of the time I have no idea what the hell he is talking about (he would say that's because I don't know anything about tennis :o) , I too am pleased he is back :yippee: He is such a laugh he is :lol:

abraxas21
01-04-2011, 10:14 PM
glenn is back and so is the magician. in about a month federers_mate will be back as well.

Allez
01-04-2011, 10:19 PM
glenn is back and so is the magician. in about a month federers_mate will be back as well.

Then god help us all! :eek:

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2011, 10:54 PM
you guys are missing the point; it's not about the FO/Wimbledon results -- it's about the 6 months of awful tennis afterwards (well, after Toronto). The only reason he rose from #8 to #6 after Wimbledon was because other people (JMDP and Davydenko) lost big points and dropped out. He 'announced himself' with big wins, then just flaked out for half a season.

Or, in other words, he fluked two wins outta nowhere and then went back to his regular level.

I knew the fabulously frustrating GlennMirnyi was popular but this is just :speakles: Though he so enjoys pushing buttons & most of the time I have no idea what the hell he is talking about (he would say that's because I don't know anything about tennis :o) , I too am pleased he is back :yippee: He is such a laugh he is :lol:

Everybody's pleased.

Isn't it great?

I'd like to send a special :hug: to MTwEeZi for sending me a lovely bad rep saying "noobie". :lol:

delpiero7
01-04-2011, 11:09 PM
glenn is back and so is the magician. in about a month federers_mate will be back as well.

Then god help us all! :eek:

Despite the fact that he seems to love winding everybody up, Glenn is articulate and intelligent enough to justify what he is saying for the most part (even though a lot of it seems like he's just hating).

The Magician and Federer's Mate just come across as idiots.

luie
01-04-2011, 11:13 PM
Soderling>>>> bend over birdshit.

The Magician
01-04-2011, 11:25 PM
Soda does have a problem with winning big events, his Paris draw was kind of a joke. However, I believe he will win a couple MS events in 2011 and possibly a GS if Fed mugs out. Berdych on the other hand is just a huge clown. Glenn is right, someone with Berdych's stature, game, and experience being unable to beat Nadull is a disgrace. His Wimbledon final was a fluke and his performance against Nadull in the final should have been fined.

The Magician
01-04-2011, 11:27 PM
Despite the fact that he seems to love winding everybody up, Glenn is articulate and intelligent enough to justify what he is saying for the most part (even though a lot of it seems like he's just hating).

The Magician and Federer's Mate just come across as idiots.

Nice to be back clown :wavey: Once Fed's mate comes back (and Nadull loses at the AO) MTF will be back to where it rightfully belongs :cool:

Nole fan
01-04-2011, 11:29 PM
glenn is back and so is the magician. in about a month federers_mate will be back as well.

Then it will be time to start my medication again. :scared:

delpiero7
01-04-2011, 11:38 PM
Nice to be back clown :wavey: Once Fed's mate comes back (and Nadull loses at the AO) MTF will be back to where it rightfully belongs :cool:

Clutching at straws much? Nadull losing at the Aussie Open won't change the fact that he's won the last 3 slams, and is number one by a comfortable margin.

Still, if you're happy with Nadull losing at the Aus Open, yet still being number one and holder of 3 slams, then who am I to argue.

The Magician
01-04-2011, 11:46 PM
Clutching at straws much? Nadull losing at the Aussie Open won't change the fact that he's won the last 3 slams, and is number one by a comfortable margin.

Still, if you're happy with Nadull losing at the Aus Open, yet still being number one and holder of 3 slams, then who am I to argue.

It's indisputable that 2010 was a horrible year for tennis, in large part though not completely thanks to Nadull. However, and maybe this is just me being an optimist and tennis nut, I think it can recover in 2011 if Nadull loses at the AO and all of the injuries and slumps end.

I'm not happy about Nadull having 3 slams and being #1, but I think (or at least hope) the sport can survive even that. But I guess for tards the sport doesn't matter, only Nadull does.

abraxas21
01-05-2011, 12:00 AM
Nadal will unfortunately keep being a major force in tennis for at least 2 or 3 more years. However, his time will pass and when it does I hope his achievements won't be as big as to cement his place amongst, say, the best 5 players of the Open Era.

Topspindoctor
01-05-2011, 12:26 AM
Soda does have a problem with winning big events, his Paris draw was kind of a joke. However, I believe he will win a couple MS events in 2011 and possibly a GS if Fed mugs out. Berdych on the other hand is just a huge clown. Glenn is right, someone with Berdych's stature, game, and experience being unable to beat Nadull is a disgrace. His Wimbledon final was a fluke and his performance against Nadull in the final should have been fined.

:retard:

Berdmug losing to Nadal on grass was expected. He can't even beat him on hard court indoors.

The Magician
01-05-2011, 12:38 AM
:retard:

Berdmug losing to Nadal on grass was expected. He can't even beat him on hard court indoors.

It was only expected because Berdych is such a huge mug. With his game and natural talent he should have no problem with Nadull. Arguably he should have an even easier time than DelPo who still has a slight weakness with the backhand.

GlennMirnyi
01-05-2011, 01:49 AM
Nadal will unfortunately keep being a major force in tennis for at least 2 or 3 more years. However, his time will pass and when it does I hope his achievements won't be as big as to cement his place amongst, say, the best 5 players of the Open Era.

The problem is the media. Nadull is the new Fakegassi. Absurd hype.