And this is why Federer is not the GOAT to me [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

And this is why Federer is not the GOAT to me

Mungo
03-31-2010, 04:32 AM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.

DJ Soup
03-31-2010, 04:35 AM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.

How come? He has the most consecutive weeks on the top and soon the most weeks as no.1

read MOST.
He's better at that than the guys you listed.

23 consecutive GS SF, anyone?

Arkulari
03-31-2010, 04:35 AM
yes Sampras always gave his best outside of Slams (or in RG), specially when he was older... :rolleyes:

BTW: the whole GOAT thing is pretty stupid IMO, there is no basis to say that someone is the best of all times simply because things are way too different ;)

EnriqueIG8
03-31-2010, 04:36 AM
Look who's coming out to say something.
Where have you been hiding during the Australian Open?

crude oil
03-31-2010, 04:36 AM
okay.

federer may not be GOAT. But sampras is a terrible example.

oranges
03-31-2010, 04:38 AM
:rolleyes: Please go back to TT if they haven't banned you

Sjengster
03-31-2010, 04:38 AM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.

Sorry if this sounds like a familiar tune, but it wasn't always this way, you know. He used to pull out so many tight matches at this level, always coming up with the right shot at the right time. Now it's as if the dam has burst, and all the weaknesses from his early days are flowing out again.

Sunset of Age
03-31-2010, 04:38 AM
Hey folks, it's a MUNGO thead. :)

In other words:
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Rattlesnake93/troll-web1asd.jpg

Smoke944
03-31-2010, 04:40 AM
yes Sampras always gave his best outside of Slams (or in RG), specially when he was older... :rolleyes:

BTW: the whole GOAT thing is pretty stupid IMO, there is no basis to say that someone is the best of all times simply because things are way too different ;)

Agreed on everything. Pete tanked a ton of matches.

JimmyV
03-31-2010, 04:41 AM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.

LOL at the thought of you watching Rod Laver.

Dude, you know Sampras actually says in HIS OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY that he didn't care about matches outside of the slams for the last 5 or so years of his career right? I mean talk about the worst possible example.

This was a match Federer could have easily lost in straights, but instead he dug down and fought it out to a tiebreaker in the third set, actually creating a match point for himself. Not to namecall, but your a fucking idoit. Jesus christ.

I'm an Andy Roddick fan for christsakes, I should hate Federer through and through, but I have to defend the guy because so many of take for granted what you see from him on a daily basis with retarded kneejerk threads like these filled with absolute garbage.

paseo
03-31-2010, 04:55 AM
LOL at the thought of you watching Rod Laver.

Dude, you know Sampras actually says in HIS OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY that he didn't care about matches outside of the slams for the last 5 or so years of his career right? I mean talk about the worst possible example.

This was a match Federer could have easily lost in straights, but instead he dug down and fought it out to a tiebreaker in the third set, actually creating a match point for himself. Not to namecall, but your a fucking idoit. Jesus christ.

I'm an Andy Roddick fan for christsakes, I should hate Federer through and through, but I have to defend the guy because so many of take for granted what you see from him on a daily basis with retarded kneejerk threads like these filled with absolute garbage.

Game. Set. And match.

/thread.

MrChopin
03-31-2010, 05:12 AM
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a223/Mr_Chopin/universe.jpg?t=1270012228

Macbrother
03-31-2010, 05:18 AM
Mungo is actually a closet Fed fan and is just upset he lost?

Topspin Forehand
03-31-2010, 05:20 AM
Great thread. I totally agree. Fed is nothing actually.

Doggy
03-31-2010, 05:20 AM
I may not like federer that much because I don't think he's hot and his gf, mirka is a mean bitch, but puhlease, 23 consecutive GS semis, most week at #1, beat rafa on clay once, and 16 GS titles and counting = GOAT

habibko
03-31-2010, 05:30 AM
LOL at the thought of you watching Rod Laver.

Dude, you know Sampras actually says in HIS OWN AUTOBIOGRAPHY that he didn't care about matches outside of the slams for the last 5 or so years of his career right? I mean talk about the worst possible example.

This was a match Federer could have easily lost in straights, but instead he dug down and fought it out to a tiebreaker in the third set, actually creating a match point for himself. Not to namecall, but your a fucking idoit. Jesus christ.

I'm an Andy Roddick fan for christsakes, I should hate Federer through and through, but I have to defend the guy because so many of take for granted what you see from him on a daily basis with retarded kneejerk threads like these filled with absolute garbage.

nothing more needs to be said, his fans should be proud of his fight, Berdych WON the last 3 points from facing match point, he could have easily tanked it in straights to save himself further for the Slams but he didn't and he had too much of a pride to fall down easily just like that, screaming COME ON and raising his level considerablly.

if anything, this match is further proof of his GOAT status.

I may not like federer that much because I don't think he's hot and his gf, mirka is a mean bitch, but puhlease, 23 consecutive GS semis, most week at #1, beat rafa on clay once, and 16 GS titles and counting = GOAT

twice, both were streak enders as well.

bokehlicious
03-31-2010, 07:27 AM
Unreal that this Mungo appears all green :rolleyes: I bet the fangirls were quick to send that tool green dots :rolleyes: :zzz:

Puschkin
03-31-2010, 07:29 AM
That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.
Who cares whose fan you are?

tea
03-31-2010, 07:42 AM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.
Once I'll be serious on this board: this post is really retarded.:lol: I mean it.

Fucker, remember once and for good: Federer is not Nadal. He is not a primitive moonballing machine that never misses basic shots.:lol: BECAUSE he has x100000 times more of the basic shots, more of those 1.5 shots Nadalito has.:D

jonas
03-31-2010, 08:12 AM
"GOAT" Sampras: (I didn't include clay Masters to make it less embarrassing)

ATP Masters Series Cincinnati, Ohio, USA; 05.08.2002; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 64
R32 Wayne Arthurs (AUS) 70 L 6-4, 3-6, 6-7(4)

ATP Masters Series Canada, Toronto, Canada; 29.07.2002; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 64
R16 Tommy Haas (USA) 3 L 6-7(3), 6-3, 6-7(5)

ATP Masters Series Miami, FL, U.S.A.; 18.03.2002; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 96
R32 Fernando Gonzalez (CHI) 62 L 6-7(1), 1-6

ATP Masters Series Cincinnati, Ohio, USA; 06.08.2001; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 64
R32 Alberto Martin (ESP) 38 L 4-6, 4-6

ATP Masters Series Miami, FL, U.S.A.; 19.03.2001; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 96
R32 Andy Roddick (USA) 119 L 6-7(2), 3-6

ATP Masters Series Canada, Toronto, Canada; 31.07.2000; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 64
Q Marat Safin (RUS) 9 L 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(10)

ATP Masters Series Indian Wells, CA, U.S.A.; 13.03.2000; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 64
Q Thomas Enqvist (SWE) 10 L 3-6, 6-3, 3-6

ATP Masters Series Miami, FL, U.S.A; 15.03.1999; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 96
Q Richard Krajicek (NED) 7 L 2-6, 6-7(6)

ATP Masters Series Indian Wells, CA, U.S.A.; 08.03.1999; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
R32 Felix Mantilla (ESP) 20 L 6-7(6), 6-3, 3-6

ATP Masters Series Stuttgart, Germany; 26.10.1998; SU; Indoor: Hard; Draw: 48
S Richard Krajicek (NED) 11 L 7-6(2), 4-6, 6-7(5)

ATP Masters Series Miami, FL, U.S.A.; 16.03.1998; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 96
R32 Wayne Ferreira (RSA) 36 L 6-0, 6-7(6), 3-6 Stats

ATP Masters Series Indian Wells, CA, U.S.A.; 09.03.1998; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
R16 Thomas Muster (AUT) 20 L 5-7, 3-6

ATP Masters Series Miami, FL, U.S.A.; 17.03.1997; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 96
S Sergi Bruguera (ESP) 35 L 7-5, 6-7(2), 4-6

ATP Masters Series Indian Wells, CA, U.S.A.; 10.03.1997; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
R32 Bohdan Ulihrach (CZE) 43 L 6-7(5), 5-7

ATP Masters Series Paris, France; 28.10.1996; SU; Indoor: Carpet; Draw: 48
R32 Marc Rosset (SUI) 23 L 4-6, 4-6

ATP Masters Series Indian Wells, CA, U.S.A.; 11.03.1996; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
Q Paul Haarhuis (NED) 68 L 5-7, 7-6(5), 1-6

ATP Masters Series Cincinnati, OH, U.S.A.; 07.08.1995; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
Q Michael Stich (GER) 8 L 7-6(5), 6-7(3), 1-6

ATP Masters Series Indian Wells, CA, U.S.A.; 01.03.1993; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
R16 Alexander Volkov (RUS) 22 L 5-7, 4-6

ATP Masters Series Paris, France; 02.11.1992; SU; Indoor: Carpet; Draw: 48
R32 Henri Leconte (FRA) 74 L 3-6, 5-7

ATP Masters Series Indian Wells, CA, U.S.A.; 02.03.1992; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
R16 Jakob Hlasek (SUI) 24 L 4-6, 6-3, 5-7

ATP Masters Series Canada, Montreal, Canada; 22.07.1991; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 56
R32 Shuzo Matsuoka (JPN) 91 L 6-2, 4-6, 6-7(8)

It's all about the slams. If you don't get that phone a mental institution right now.

electronicmusic
03-31-2010, 08:48 AM
It's all about the slams. If you don't get that phone a mental institution right now.

Summary for this thread.

Acer
03-31-2010, 09:04 AM
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9458/gopheryell.jpg

federersforehand
03-31-2010, 09:30 AM
federers so bad, and trys so little in slams, that he has notched up a 23 SF streak, 19 of which hes got to the final.. he must be woeful!

dodo
03-31-2010, 09:56 AM
What a silly OP. As if haters needed a reason to hate.

Sri
03-31-2010, 10:24 AM
Poor Berdych. Doesn't get credit for playing really well.

Alex999
03-31-2010, 12:53 PM
wow, I was wondering how the OP is so perfect .... please let me know.

Federer is awesome. Djokovic too, even when they lose ....

sennoc
03-31-2010, 01:37 PM
That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.

The last one is the funniest one. A GOAT who picks his ass and gives his stinking hand at handshakes, a GOAT who overreacts unforced errors of his enemy, a GOAT who breaks tennis rules at every serve (delays), a GOAT with a few winners per set. A man who lost most of his matches without fight, in easy sets...

Man, don't write bs, just write you do not like Federer.

Voo de Mar
03-31-2010, 01:53 PM
:lol: at thread starter


"GOAT" Sampras: (I didn't include clay Masters to make it less embarrassing)


ATP Masters Series Canada, Toronto, Canada; 31.07.2000; SU; Outdoor: Hard; Draw: 64
Q Marat Safin (RUS) 9 L 4-6, 6-3, 6-7(10)


4-6 6-3 6-7(8) :p

thrust
03-31-2010, 01:54 PM
yes Sampras always gave his best outside of Slams (or in RG), specially when he was older... :rolleyes:

BTW: the whole GOAT thing is pretty stupid IMO, there is no basis to say that someone is the best of all times simply because things are way too different ;)

TRUE!

Jomp1
03-31-2010, 03:22 PM
G.O.A.T. is based on success, and Federer my friend is the most successful ever, thus the GOAT. What you think if him as a person doesn't mean very much to this discussion.

MacTheKnife
03-31-2010, 03:26 PM
Then you need to watch more tennis. Specially the past matches of other greats. Great players screwing around and practicing in non slam matches is nothing new.

prafull
03-31-2010, 03:47 PM
Nadal in last 21 Master series tournaments-

march 2010 miami- QF or better
march 2010 indianwells- lost to 26 ljubicic SF
november 2009 paris- lost to 3 Djokovic SF
october 2009 Shanghai- lost to 8 Davydenko Final
august 2009 cincinnati- lost to 4 Djokovic SF
august 2009 Canada- lost to 6 Delpotro QF
May 2009 Madrid- lost to 2 Federer Final
april 2009 Rome- Winner
april 2009 Monte Carlo- Winner
march 2009 miami- lost to 7 Delpotro QF
march 2009 indianwells- Winner
november 2008 paris- retired to 6 Davydenko QF
october 2008 madrid- lost to 16 Simon SF
july 2008 cincinnati- lost to 3 Djokovic SF
july 2008 Canada- Winner
may 2008 Hamburg- Winner
may 2008 Rome- lost to 23 Ferrero R32
april 2008 Monte Carlo- Winner
march 2008 miami- lost to 4 Davydenko Final
march 2008 indianwells- lost to 3 Djokovic SF
october 2007 paris- lost to 21 Nalbandian Final


Winner-6
Final-4
SF-6
QF-4
R16-0
R32-1

Rank of opponents who beat him

1-5 Rank 6 times
6-10 Rank 4 times
11 and higher 4 times


federer in last 21 Master series tournaments-

march 2010 miami- lost to 20 Berdych R16
march 2010 indianwells- lost to 33 baghdatis R32
november 2009 paris- lost to 49 Julien Benneteau R32
august 2009 cincinnati- Winner
august 2009 Canada- lost to 7 Tsonga QF
May 2009 Madrid- Winner
april 2009 Rome- lost to 3 djokovic SF
april 2009 Monte Carlo- lost to 16 Wawrinka R16
march 2009 miami- lost to 3 djokovic SF
march 2009 indianwells- lost to 4 Murray SF
november 2008 paris- W/o to 11 James Blake QF
october 2008 madrid- lost to 4 Murray SF
july 2008 cincinnati- lost to 22 karlovic R16
july 2008 Canada- lost to 22 simon R32
may 2008 Hamburg- lost to 2 Nadal Final
may 2008 Rome- lost to 27 stepanek QF
april 2008 Monte Carlo- lost to 2 Nadal Final
march 2008 miami- lost to 6 Roddick QF
march 2008 indianwells- lost to 98 Mardy Fish SF
october 2007 paris- lost to 21 Nalbandian R16
october 2007 madrid- lost to 25 Nalbandian Final

Winner-2
Final-3
SF-5
QF-4
R16-4
R32-3

Rank of opponents who beat him

1-5 Rank 5 times
6-10 Rank 2 times
11 and higher 12 times

tennis2tennis
03-31-2010, 03:55 PM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.

you do know that Sampras has 11 masters to his name, NEVER went beyond the semi-final of Roland Garros...right;)

star
03-31-2010, 05:45 PM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.


Did you actually watch Sampras in the latter half of his career? I tend to doubt it. Sampras snoozed through many, many matches. He turned it up a notch in only a few games when he needed a break. Otherwise he just conserved energy. GOAT, in my book, has to do with results on the court and not about the manner in which the results are achieved.

I have my own issues with GOATdom because it really wasn't until Lendl that tennis players were thinking about collecting all kinds of records. However, it's clear that Federer has the best results in the last twenty years of tennis. You can say all sorts of things you want. You might not like the guy or the way he plays tennis, but you cannot argue the results.

jonas
03-31-2010, 06:10 PM
:lol: at thread starter




4-6 6-3 6-7(8) :p

Thanks Voo. Send atpworldtour.com an e-mail. ;)

r2473
03-31-2010, 06:21 PM
Not to namecall, but your a fucking idoit, Jesus christ.

Don't call Jesus an idiot so close to Easter.

BlueSwan
03-31-2010, 06:23 PM
Nadal in last 21 Master series tournaments-

march 2010 miami- QF or better
march 2010 indianwells- lost to 26 ljubicic SF
november 2009 paris- lost to 3 Djokovic SF
october 2009 Shanghai- lost to 8 Davydenko Final
august 2009 cincinnati- lost to 4 Djokovic SF
august 2009 Canada- lost to 6 Delpotro QF
May 2009 Madrid- lost to 2 Federer Final
april 2009 Rome- Winner
april 2009 Monte Carlo- Winner
march 2009 miami- lost to 7 Delpotro QF
march 2009 indianwells- Winner
november 2008 paris- retired to 6 Davydenko QF
october 2008 madrid- lost to 16 Simon SF
july 2008 cincinnati- lost to 3 Djokovic SF
july 2008 Canada- Winner
may 2008 Hamburg- Winner
may 2008 Rome- lost to 23 Ferrero R32
april 2008 Monte Carlo- Winner
march 2008 miami- lost to 4 Davydenko Final
march 2008 indianwells- lost to 3 Djokovic SF
october 2007 paris- lost to 21 Nalbandian Final


Winner-6
Final-4
SF-6
QF-4
R16-0
R32-1

Rank of opponents who beat him

1-5 Rank 6 times
6-10 Rank 4 times
11 and higher 4 times


federer in last 21 Master series tournaments-

march 2010 miami- lost to 20 Berdych R16
march 2010 indianwells- lost to 33 baghdatis R32
november 2009 paris- lost to 49 Julien Benneteau R32
august 2009 cincinnati- Winner
august 2009 Canada- lost to 7 Tsonga QF
May 2009 Madrid- Winner
april 2009 Rome- lost to 3 djokovic SF
april 2009 Monte Carlo- lost to 16 Wawrinka R16
march 2009 miami- lost to 3 djokovic SF
march 2009 indianwells- lost to 4 Murray SF
november 2008 paris- W/o to 11 James Blake QF
october 2008 madrid- lost to 4 Murray SF
july 2008 cincinnati- lost to 22 karlovic R16
july 2008 Canada- lost to 22 simon R32
may 2008 Hamburg- lost to 2 Nadal Final
may 2008 Rome- lost to 27 stepanek QF
april 2008 Monte Carlo- lost to 2 Nadal Final
march 2008 miami- lost to 6 Roddick QF
march 2008 indianwells- lost to 98 Mardy Fish SF
october 2007 paris- lost to 21 Nalbandian R16
october 2007 madrid- lost to 25 Nalbandian Final

Winner-2
Final-3
SF-5
QF-4
R16-4
R32-3

Rank of opponents who beat him

1-5 Rank 5 times
6-10 Rank 2 times
11 and higher 12 times
So you are saying that Nadal has outperformed Federer by a considerable margin over the last few years.

Who exactly is disagreeing with you on that? It is wellknown that Federer has been very inconsistent outside of slams over the last few years, but look at his slam results from the same time period and compare them to Nadals or anyone elses in the HISTORY OF THE GAME. Even when Federer is below his best his slam results are still better than anyone elses ever. Quite impressive, I'd say.

Everko
03-31-2010, 07:38 PM
Unreal that this Mungo appears all green :rolleyes: I bet the fangirls were quick to send that tool green dots :rolleyes: :zzz:

Do you think he should be all red? Why? Because he disagrees that your idol is not the best tennis player ever?

DJ Soup
03-31-2010, 07:41 PM
Do you think he should be all red? Why? Because he disagrees that your idol is not the best tennis player ever?

no, it's because he/she's like you and 2003. Always coming with bad quality opinions/topics and trolling.

Everko
03-31-2010, 07:44 PM
no, it's because he/she's like you and 2003. Always coming with bad quality opinions/topics and trolling.

False. P.Antonius starts to vent anger at the slightest negative comment about Federer no matter how true

Aaric
03-31-2010, 07:47 PM
He plays bad, but still wins Slams :haha:

Jimnik
03-31-2010, 11:30 PM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.
And what did Sampras win in his final years, other than Wimbledon and the US Open?

Name one player that continued to win > 6 non-slam events a year well into their late 20s, early 30s.

Mungo
04-01-2010, 02:34 AM
you do know that Sampras has 11 masters to his name, NEVER went beyond the semi-final of Roland Garros...right;)

This is to you and other guys talking of Sampras. I NEVER SAID THAT SAMPRAS IS THE GOAT! But Sampras was clutch, clutcher than Federer! He won a 5 setter in the US Open while puking on the court. THAT is a great champion in my book!

andy neyer
04-01-2010, 03:03 AM
:rolleyes: Please go back to TT if they haven't banned you

The OP actually made the exact same thread in TT :)

andy neyer
04-01-2010, 03:09 AM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch.

You know, I actually agree with the bolded part and that's to me the main argument that can be presented against Federer.

In all sports, being clutch is highly valued. Think of Michael Jordan, a basketball player who's considered by many fans and experts as the GOAT. Like Federer, he was very talented and unique in the stuff he was able to pull on the court. However, unlike Federer, Jordan was a clutch man. He was the type of basketballer who was able to make the most unbeliable shots in the moments that counted the most. Federer just doesn't have that and he even tends to play a bit worse when he's under big pressure like it happened in last night's third set tiebreak in which he made 4 or 5 unforced errors with his forehand.

Ariadne
04-01-2010, 03:50 AM
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH! FEDERER AIN'T CLUTCH HYUCK! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!


Hilarious! Federer not being clutch! Ignoramus Recency Effect at Work!

Federerhingis
04-01-2010, 04:37 AM
Hey folks, it's a MUNGO thead. :)

In other words:
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Rattlesnake93/troll-web1asd.jpg

Not only that, I do not mean to disrespect, but honestly Mungo or mine or any of our opinions posted on MTF count for silch. Whether Mungo thinks Federer is the Goat or not does not matter it's a mere opinion. So at the end of day our posts are only but our mere opinions. :shrug:

River
04-01-2010, 04:41 AM
If Federer sucks and STILL wins slams, then all the other players have gotta be like.. off-the-chart suck xD

Federer is the GOAT right now. No doubt. Will it be broken? Maybe not for a long time, but it will.

But face it. Fed's the best there is right now.

HKz
04-01-2010, 05:46 AM
Being the Greatest player Of All Time is not just about titles, number of Slams...

The GOAT, win or lose, should play like a great champion, should be clutch. I am sick of watching Federer snooze on a tennis court, missing basic shots, shanking backhands and choking matches away. You can lose but you can't act that way on the court and Federer has done it too many times. That's not being a G.O.A.T. in my book. The GOAT should try his best all the time, that means respect to the game.

That's why I will be a fan of Laver,Lendl,Sampras,Nadal..but never a fan of Federer.

Yeah all those players really achieved anything remotely close to 2004-2007 Federer. :rolleyes:

It is all about the slams, who cares about these smaller events when you have achieved so much, which is why Nadal should do the same and not try to hard and focus more on the slams.

Utter joke about Lendl and Sampras.

Let me know when Lendl becomes known as a fantastic Grand Slam finals player.
Let me know when Sampras can play on clay and have just even ONE season that matches one of Federer's best seasons.
Let me know when Laver wins the Calendar Year/Career Grand Slam on multiple surfaces rather than just 3 Grass/1 Clay event.

habibko
04-01-2010, 06:52 AM
You know, I actually agree with the bolded part and that's to me the main argument that can be presented against Federer.

In all sports, being clutch is highly valued. Think of Michael Jordan, a basketball player who's considered by many fans and experts as the GOAT. Like Federer, he was very talented and unique in the stuff he was able to pull on the court. However, unlike Federer, Jordan was a clutch man. He was the type of basketballer who was able to make the most unbeliable shots in the moments that counted the most. Federer just doesn't have that and he even tends to play a bit worse when he's under big pressure like it happened in last night's third set tiebreak in which he made 4 or 5 unforced errors with his forehand.

yeah Federer was never clutch in his career, RG last year is THE definition of clutch :smash:

and let's assume he isn't as clutch as Sampras, who cares? he can't be perfect in every single way, he is still much better player than Sampras and achieved a whole lot more than Sampras could ever dream of.

andy neyer
04-01-2010, 07:07 AM
yeah Federer was never clutch in his career, RG last year is THE definition of clutch :smash:

and let's assume he isn't as clutch as Sampras, who cares? he can't be perfect in every single way, he is still much better player than Sampras and achieved a whole lot more than Sampras could ever dream of.

RG was very impressive. However, I'd say that over the past 2 or 3 years Federer hasn't generally been too clutch at all and has lost quite a few matches he should have won. It's just the way I see it.

Sunset of Age
04-01-2010, 07:11 AM
RG was very impressive. However, I'd say that over the past 2 or 3 years Federer hasn't generally been too clutch at all and has lost quite a few matches he should have won. It's just the way I see it.

He has also won quite a few matches that he could well have lost - even in GS tournaments. The names of Roddick, DelPotro, Haas, Acasuso and yes, Berdych come to mind.
It goes both ways.

bokehlicious
04-01-2010, 11:42 AM
So the "Life must suck if you're not a Fed fan" gets closed in a hurry while those rubbish threads are still open?!?! I mean now almost every hater has started their own thread to explain why they hate on Fed... As if anyone cared :rolleyes:

Erica86
04-01-2010, 11:50 AM
Federer has been, and still is, the best player this decade. I just don't understand how people criticize great players.
Being a Federer, Djokovic, Nadal or Murray hater is simply stupid because they are the best players at the moment. I love tennis, and I don't hate anybody who makes this sport greater.

tea
04-01-2010, 11:53 AM
They had mercy on me for that "life must suck" thread. Just an infraction, not ban.:bowdown:

bokehlicious
04-01-2010, 12:14 PM
They had mercy on me for that "life must suck" thread. Just an infraction, not ban.:bowdown:

Even getting an infraction for that is laughable :rolleyes:

This very thread is utter crap, merely some hater's rambles, and yet it will remain active......

I'll soon start a thread on how to me Nadal isn't even the best clay courter of this generation and see if it gets deleted or not :o :angel:

fabolous
04-01-2010, 12:42 PM
it's interesting that the posts in these kind of threads are 90% from fedtards. bonnie, habibko, tea - they are all here within a minute to keep the thread alive.

and of course p.ant:hysteric:nius, whose amount of bitching and whining has reached a new high the last weeks.

bokehlicious
04-01-2010, 12:44 PM
it's interesting that the posts in these kind of threads are 90% from fedtards.

What matters is who started the thread. And that no mod bothered deleting such crap.

rocketassist
04-01-2010, 12:46 PM
it's interesting that the posts in these kind of threads are 90% from fedtards. bonnie, habibko, tea - they are all here within a minute to keep the thread alive.

and of course p.ant:hysteric:nius, whose amount of bitching and whining has reached a new high the last weeks.

Sure, let's compare their clownage levels to the OP. :lol:

Juanes
04-01-2010, 12:48 PM
16 GS titles = GOAT

:yeah: :worship:

oz_boz
04-01-2010, 08:25 PM
Thread starter obviously started watching tennis in 2008 :lol:

SetSampras
04-01-2010, 10:05 PM
Yea I can't really dispute the fact its not very good to use Sampras' as an example in this matter.. In fact, the very thing pissed me the hell off in relation to sampras, is his lack of wanting to dominate on a week in week out basis. Federer IS a mirror image of Sampras these days in this regard. He hasnt gave a damn about non slam events for the last 2 years or so. But this will probably increase his longevity of winning slam much as it did Sampras'. Federer taking this approach should at least guaranteed him another few slams until 30-31 years of age.


Federer like Sampras are such talented players, they have the ability to peak at slams. Those types of players are very few and far between.

But yea.. it was evident that post 95 or 96 anyways.. Sampras cared about just one thing.. winning slams. As Federer does now. To me though thats what makes Laver GOAT. 199 tournaments won.. You cant say he just cared about slams. he was a chainsaw at every event for years and years.

Federer had a good 2-3 years of focusing on week in week out domination. Outside of that.. Its mostly been just slams. Pete had a 2 year run of week in week out focus and domination.. But both haven't played their whole careers or the majority of them anyways, with the domination Laver had.


But to be quite honest.. I dont care for when ANY player does that especially guys or girls with GOAT- careers. I hate seeing Serena do that.. Couldnt stand seeing sampras half ass non slam events.. And I dont like watching roger do it. To me that DOES hurt one's credibility


Hell you got Nadal damn near going to be in a wheelchair by 30 and hes still toughing it out week in week out. And he has alot of miles on those legs and has been around for 5 years anyways at the top. Quite a while Yet you got Federer who has had no injuries to speak of, half assing it at anything not a slam

andy neyer
04-01-2010, 10:11 PM
Federer IS a mirror image of Sampras these days in this regard. He hasnt gave a damn about non slam events for the last 2 years or so.

That's not true.

SetSampras
04-01-2010, 10:19 PM
That's not true.



If u look at his non slam results.. You cant tell me otherwise. Hes turning into the very mirror image of a sampras or Serena. How is he consistently dominating the best the field has to offer today at the slams like Murray, Djokovic, etc and consistently reaching slam finals EVERY SINGLE SLAM.. Yet hes losing to Baghaditis, Berdych, Fish, Karlovic, etc at non slam events over the last two years? This is proof he doesnt give even close to a rats ass about non slams as he does slam events. Obviously his focus is much less at non slam events When is the last time Roger has even won a non slam event? Yet at the same time he is reaching every slam final imaginable? :rolleyes:


Its obvious as long as Roger stays #1 and continues to see the slam results.. This will continue until he really falls off or Nadal finally gets back up there at the top to challenge him. He can get away on auto-pilot now. But probably by the end of the year, he will be feeling the pressure to stay #1 if he keeps this up. especially if he goes down at the French.

But at this point he can afford it. Del Potro out injured, Nadal still trying to recapture his form, Djoker and Murray playing like shit.

paseo
04-01-2010, 10:29 PM
Even getting an infraction for that is laughable :rolleyes:

This very thread is utter crap, merely some hater's rambles, and yet it will remain active......

I'll soon start a thread on how to me Nadal isn't even the best clay courter of this generation and see if it gets deleted or not :o :angel:

Go for it, man!

leng jai
04-01-2010, 10:31 PM
If this thread had an IQ it would be zero.

andy neyer
04-01-2010, 10:38 PM
If u look at his non slam results.. You cant tell me otherwise.

I can, actually. There are many possible theories one can present to explain the fact that Federer doesn't perform in MS as well as does in GS. Saying that it's due to the allegded fact that Federer doesn't care for non-GS events is just one of them, and a wrong explanation in my opinion.

If you ask me, I'd say the following explanations are more likely to resemble reality:

1- Federer feels more pressure to win a best of three sets match given that the "finishing like" is much closer than in a best of five sets match. In a best of three sets match there's not much space for making mistakes (and Federer is prone to having long lapses of shanks and unforced errors in both MS and GS matches) and then make a comeback once your game clicks. In a GS on the other hand, there is.

2- Conversely, the players he's playing against tend to feel more pressure when it comes to beat Federer in a best of five sets match compared to a best of three sets match. Why? Because they know they have to perform extremely well for a longer period of time whereas in, say, a regular MS match, they know they have to play well for only 2 or at most 3 sets in order to get away with the win.

3- Federer enters GS with a lot of preparation due in part to the MS events he played before whereas when he enters MS, he's less prepared. This is due to the relevance he puts in the GS when making his schedule which are obviously more important to him than a MS (as they would be for any other player) but certainly doesn't mean he doesn't care for non-GS.

Sunset of Age
04-02-2010, 12:43 AM
If this thread had an IQ it would be zero.

-273 degrees Kelvin comes closer.

kengyin
04-02-2010, 12:50 AM
sorry but thats not quite right there, 0 degrees kelvin = -273 degrees celcius, thats the absolute zero, you cant get to -273 degrees kelvin!:lol:

Mungo
04-02-2010, 01:57 AM
Then you need to watch more tennis. Specially the past matches of other greats. Great players screwing around and practicing in non slam matches is nothing new.

LOL at great players practicing in non slam matches. You have no idea of what pro tennis is.
Did you read Federer's post-mach interview? He was really pissed! So you think he doesn't care about being no.1? Yeah right. Federer is more vulnerable in best of 3 matches but it's not because he doesn't try as hard as he can. It's just that the great players are tougher to beat in best of 5. You Fed fans need to stop being so arrogant and admit that Federer loses some matches trying his best.

Mungo
04-02-2010, 02:00 AM
You know, I actually agree with the bolded part and that's to me the main argument that can be presented against Federer.

In all sports, being clutch is highly valued. Think of Michael Jordan, a basketball player who's considered by many fans and experts as the GOAT. Like Federer, he was very talented and unique in the stuff he was able to pull on the court. However, unlike Federer, Jordan was a clutch man. He was the type of basketballer who was able to make the most unbeliable shots in the moments that counted the most. Federer just doesn't have that and he even tends to play a bit worse when he's under big pressure like it happened in last night's third set tiebreak in which he made 4 or 5 unforced errors with his forehand.

Exactly, great post. Federer should be clutcher to be the GOAT, he chokes too many times.

Mechlan
04-02-2010, 02:03 AM
LOL at great players practicing in non slam matches. You have no idea of what pro tennis is.
Did you read Federer's post-mach interview? He was really pissed! So you think he doesn't care about being no.1? Yeah right. Federer is more vulnerable in best of 3 matches but it's not because he doesn't try as hard as he can. It's just that the great players are tougher to beat in best of 5. You Fed fans need to stop being so arrogant and admit that Federer loses some matches trying his best.

Isn't this like the exact opposite of what you wrote in your first post? :tennis:

Mungo
04-02-2010, 02:08 AM
Yeah all those players really achieved anything remotely close to 2004-2007 Federer. :rolleyes:

It is all about the slams, who cares about these smaller events when you have achieved so much, which is why Nadal should do the same and not try to hard and focus more on the slams.

Utter joke about Lendl and Sampras.

Let me know when Lendl becomes known as a fantastic Grand Slam finals player.
Let me know when Sampras can play on clay and have just even ONE season that matches one of Federer's best seasons.
Let me know when Laver wins the Calendar Year/Career Grand Slam on multiple surfaces rather than just 3 Grass/1 Clay event.

This Slam titles fever started when Sampras broke the Laver record and later with Federer. Many greats in the past didn't care about the Australian Open until the late 80's. Long trip, bad timing of the season. Even the Masters Cup was more important than the AO for some years. Rod Laver was banned from Slams during 5 years in the prime time of his career. Why some people always ignore things like these? So narrow minded! What about Davis Cup? Davis Cup is huge even though Federer fans and some americans try to devaluate it because it's convenient to them. It means a lot in a player career!
It is undisputed that Federer won more majors than anyone but it's not undisputed that he is the GOAT!

habibko
04-02-2010, 02:08 AM
Isn't this like the exact opposite of what you wrote in your first post? :tennis:

:haha: :haha:

Mungo
04-02-2010, 02:12 AM
Isn't this like the exact opposite of what you wrote in your first post? :tennis:

Nope it's not. I meant that watching him play it looks like he is snoozing on the court sometimes but obviously he cares about these events. Heck he is even playing Estoril!!! He was really upset after losing as he showed in the post-match interview but he's not a great fighter.

andy neyer
04-02-2010, 02:14 AM
Exactly, great post. Federer should be clutcher to be the GOAT, he chokes too many times.

On second thought, I might have been a bit too harsh judging Federer. Numbers wise, his record on five set matches is decent and his record in deciding match tiebreakers is overall good. Sure, Federer is no Bjorn Borg, Sampras or even Rafael Nadal in the mental department but he's far from being bad either.
I do think, however, that his clutchness has decreased over the years.

KarlyM
04-02-2010, 02:39 AM
http://i42.tinypic.com/2n6uq9u.png