Time to eliminate Miami and Indian Wells [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Time to eliminate Miami and Indian Wells

Everko
03-24-2010, 03:32 PM
They drag the season. Take way too long, we don't need these days of no tennis.

They should be cut to 64 draws and played over 1 week and maybe eliminate them entirely.

It feels like a transition rather than actual tournaments

tea
03-24-2010, 03:39 PM
Toolko can't wait till the dust season to begin?:yippee::awww::baby:

duong
03-24-2010, 03:40 PM
surely it would be a priority for the calendar to switch at least one of these to only one week ... or even take off Indian Wells (although I prefer Indian Wells than Miami from TV, but I've heard that Miami is a better stadium and organization, history, all of this ...)

Everko
03-24-2010, 03:46 PM
Toolko can't wait till the dust season to begin?:yippee::awww::baby:

Domination begins on dirt.

Action Jackson
03-24-2010, 03:47 PM
64 player draw and just have these events as 1 week events would be enough.

They won't get rid of them.

superslam77
03-24-2010, 03:49 PM
:retard: time to eliminate your posts from MTF :cuckoo:

superslam77
03-24-2010, 03:54 PM
Red Card is a new low...what if parera gets trashed again in the clay season??? would you ask for rome to be removed as well?

Acer
03-24-2010, 03:55 PM
They should both definitely be shortened to one week each, there's absolutely nothing interesting about the first week anyway, and please dont' compare it to the first week of a GS.

As for eliminating them, well that's just Everko being his usual bearded clam self, so just nod and go on with your lives.

Noleta
03-24-2010, 03:56 PM
Why not get rid of IW?One 1000 event is enough no?:shrug:

Everko
03-24-2010, 03:58 PM
Red Card is a new low...what if parera gets trashed again in the clay season??? would you ask for rome to be removed as well?

That's orangutang crap. It has nothing to do with Nadal losing, he has had success in them before. Djokovic has won them as well. Read the damn thread before responding next time superslam.

PiggyGotRoasted
03-24-2010, 03:59 PM
They drag the season. Take way too long, we don't need these days of no tennis.

They should be cut to 64 draws and played over 1 week and maybe eliminate them entirely.

It feels like a transition rather than actual tournaments

Its time to eliminate this thread

Everko
03-24-2010, 04:01 PM
Let me restate.

They are too slow, these days in early parts of the week with no main darw tennis is not needed. They are badly placed in the schedule and take way to long. 4 weeks for the 2 tournaments? Too much

superslam77
03-24-2010, 04:04 PM
That's orangutang crap. It has nothing to do with Nadal losing, he has had success in them before. Djokovic has won them as well. Read the damn thread before responding next time superslam.

Seriously the IW+MS are two of the most important MS in the season. I think they should make the clay season longer and add importance to MC again. For grass Halle should have been a MS.

madmax
03-24-2010, 04:15 PM
I'd suggest to completely eliminate mud season and make good ol' grass season a proper one, but that's just me of course...dirt season is for talentless grinders and pushers, this is not the kind of tennis I prefer to watch. How about this topic for a change?

Har-Tru
03-24-2010, 04:18 PM
Get rid of one of them and play the other on Har-Tru.

fabolous
03-24-2010, 04:19 PM
move one into january/february (if wheather is ok) and place australian open a few weeks behind would make sense IMO. and 64 players draw of course. will never happen though.

everko is not completely wrong this time ;)

Start da Game
03-24-2010, 04:24 PM
it's high time........

two ridiculous nonsensical tournaments biting off all the time of the precious and prestigious clay court season........

my suggestion - cut them short to one week each and downgrade them to 500 events........montecarlo should be mandatory again and queens club or halle should be grass masters........

suggestions from nadal fans have nothing to do with nadal's success on clay.......bitter idiots who don't have a clue about clay better be quiet, no need to throw any insults.......i would even welcome two grass masters later on in the season in place of indian wells and miami........

Certinfy
03-24-2010, 04:26 PM
Get rid of one of them, play the other perhaps leading up to the USO?

Everko
03-24-2010, 04:29 PM
Get rid of one of them, play the other perhaps leading up to the USO?

But there is already Cininatti and Canada.

Nathaliia
03-24-2010, 04:34 PM
I have to disagree with majority of posters in this thread. I've always liked both IW and Miami back in the times when you could actually watch them on TV here in this country. It was always interesting which less known player can survive to the high rounds and grab larger amount of points. It's a festival of tennis; you've got these lower ranked competing with the top names and it is much better than to follow events like Houston or whatever, where all the low ranks compete with one fluke ranked boring chap. IW and Miami bring me some slam atmosphere, and the quallies are what I like to follow as well.

Certinfy
03-24-2010, 04:34 PM
But there is already Cininatti and Canada.Get rid of Cincinnati!

bjurra
03-24-2010, 04:37 PM
surely it would be a priority for the calendar to switch at least one of these to only one week ... or even take off Indian Wells (although I prefer Indian Wells than Miami from TV, but I've heard that Miami is a better stadium and organization, history, all of this ...)

No, Indian Wells is much better.

I think IW and Miami should remain as they are.

duong
03-24-2010, 04:40 PM
I have to disagree with majority of posters in this thread. I've always liked both IW and Miami back in the times when you could actually watch them on TV here in this country. It was always interesting which less known player can survive to the high rounds and grab larger amount of points. It's a festival of tennis; you've got these lower ranked competing with the top names and it is much better than to follow events like Houston or whatever, where all the low ranks compete with one fluke ranked boring chap. IW and Miami bring me some slam atmosphere, and the quallies are what I like to follow as well.

I fully agree with that :yeah:

BUT there are these complaints about calendar ... and when I look at those, esp about very dense clay season, the best solution is about making these tournaments shorter.

move one into january/february (if wheather is ok) and place australian open a few weeks behind would make sense IMO.

I checked the temperatures : it's possible, esp for Indian Wells. But I don't know about the winds.

Most importantly, of course, you know that for the American media they like to communicate on a "season" of following tournaments like IW-Miami and Canada-Cinci in summer.

Tennis depends a lot on the American media, that's what I can see since I've been more interested into all these.

Mateya
03-24-2010, 04:42 PM
My neutral opinion: :angel:

I think that 2 MS events of this calibre one after another is just too much. One of them should be shortened or maybe transformed into a ATP 500 event.

We need grass court MS event just for the sake of it. Why are there only clay and hard court MS events? :confused:

duong
03-24-2010, 04:42 PM
No, Indian Wells is much better.

I think IW and Miami should remain as they are.

maybe I was mistaken : I had read that Miami was the players' favorite maybe, and also there's always an ATP council there if I remember, it's an important venue for all of the ATP.

Anyway on TV I prefer Indian Wells. Especially the wind in Miami is often annoying.

duong
03-24-2010, 04:44 PM
We need grass court MS event just for the sake of it. Why are there only clay and hard court MS events? :confused:

at least because noone wants to invest in it from what I could read.

The Queens and Halle didn't even want to invest the money to be ATP500 tournaments !

Certinfy
03-24-2010, 04:46 PM
I have to disagree with majority of posters in this thread. I've always liked both IW and Miami back in the times when you could actually watch them on TV here in this country. It was always interesting which less known player can survive to the high rounds and grab larger amount of points. It's a festival of tennis; you've got these lower ranked competing with the top names and it is much better than to follow events like Houston or whatever, where all the low ranks compete with one fluke ranked boring chap. IW and Miami bring me some slam atmosphere, and the quallies are what I like to follow as well.This is my view on the matter as well :yeah:

Nathaliia
03-24-2010, 04:51 PM
Miami is like claycourt the new type of grass court.

This sounds like a reasonable compromise :).

marcRD
03-24-2010, 04:54 PM
Yeah, they should move it to January-february, make each tournament 1 week with a tournament in between, then move on to Australian Open to late february with the proper warm up in the master series events.

In march we should have the south american clay court season ending with a master series in Buenos Aires. Moving on to April we should have the Monte Carlo and Rome master series and with so much time we could move in between Hamburg and Barcelona 500s (like 1st week of April Monte Carlo, 2nd week Barcelona, 3rd week Hamburg and end of april/beginning of may Rome).

We should move the French open 1 week earler to the middle of may, and have an extended 4 weeks time (instead of 2 weeks) between French Open and Wimbledon with Queens and Halle beeing played in different weeks.

Grass season should be like this: 1st week (directly after french) would have some small grasscourt tournaments like one in Holland, 2nd week we should have the Halle master series and 3rd week we have Queens 500, 4th week we have more small grasscourt tournaments and then Wimbledon.

Moving Wimbledon one week later would take away some of those boring small tournaments in american hardcourt season/European late summer claycourt season no one cares about, or you could simply move the whole season 1 week (including US OPEN) if you want to keep them.

Then we should have the asian indoors season just like we have right now in October and the european indoor season in beginning of November (each ending with one master series, they should be ultrafast indoor courts like they used to have in the 90s), Master cup beeing played at the same date as it is today. I must say I really like there is so much time between Shanghai and Paris master series today, we should keep it like that.

Davis cup 1st round should be played 1 week after the Australian open 1st round (when players dont need to worry about some upcoming big tournaments) and the rest of the dates are good enought as of today.

Overall I think this would be an awesome schedule (with 10 master series instead of 9. Buenos Aires beeing optional), do you agree?

Tripster
03-24-2010, 05:18 PM
marcRD, that's exactly what I would love to see and probably most of the other fans too.
I guess one big problem is that RG and Wimbledon both don't want to move...

duong
03-24-2010, 05:39 PM
I guess one big problem is that RG and Wimbledon both don't want to move...

yes I'm not sure everybody realizes that, esp when they speak about a longer grass season, but THIS is something which I don't think one could change at all.

nobama
03-24-2010, 05:49 PM
I love it when people talk about moving the slams....as if that's ever going to happen. :lol:

I can't see playing Miami early in the year as the weather is not that warm. The average temp in Miami for January & February was 64F. And no way could either Miami or IW be played in the summer. The average temp in Palm Springs in July/August is well over 100F. Miami is around 90F, but much more humid. It has to be just as bad, if not worse than Cincy & DC in terms of heat index.

samanosuke
03-24-2010, 06:01 PM
:retard: time to eliminate your posts from MTF :cuckoo:

+1

marcRD
03-24-2010, 06:07 PM
I love it when people talk about moving the slams....as if that's ever going to happen. :lol:

I can't see playing Miami early in the year as the weather is not that warm. The average temp in Miami for January & February was 64F. And no way could either Miami or IW be played in the summer. The average temp in Palm Springs in July/August is well over 100F. Miami is around 90F, but much more humid. It has to be just as bad, if not worse than Cincy & DC in terms of heat index.

There is no big differense between Jan/Feb to march/april:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Miami

Indian Wells is a little bit colder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Wells,_California

.-Federers_Mate-.
03-24-2010, 07:06 PM
Eliminate madrid..and everything will be ok. The clay season is too long

r2473
03-24-2010, 07:17 PM
They should be cut to 64 draws and played over 1 week and maybe eliminate them entirely.

Maybe you'd be interested in "reality TV tennis". Panel of judges, audience votes on the winner, but no actual tennis is played.


http://thepasswordisswordfish.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/americanidol.jpg

Guybrush
03-24-2010, 07:50 PM
Domination begins on dirt.

Dirt is boooooooring! :o

dylan24
03-24-2010, 08:48 PM
i wish we could go back in time and eliminate 2010 indian wells.
i'd have a lot more money if we did.

Jomp1
03-24-2010, 09:32 PM
One masters on grass and Miami being 500 or optional would be great, but I doubt anyone is willing to spend the money on a Masters1000 grass tournament. Those two loooong masters and then right on to the heavy clay schedule is too much imo, especially with all the snoozetime available after Aussie and Wimbledon. I understand it's a question of climate but something should be done.

croat123
03-24-2010, 09:49 PM
I think one of them should be shortened to one week (probably IW) so the claycourt season can start sooner and MC can be mandatory. The extra week can go towards the grass court season. Maybe they can make Queens a masters event and then have a week between Queens and Wimbledon.

n8
03-24-2010, 09:52 PM
A poll for this thread would be nice. Options like: eliminate both, eliminate one, keep them both, shorten them etc.

Snowwy
03-24-2010, 09:57 PM
I really like these two tournaments

tealeaves
03-24-2010, 10:02 PM
seriouslt either IW/Miami should be axed and give a big grass tourny in june

thedesertsun
03-24-2010, 10:28 PM
Davis cup 1st round should be played 1 week after the Australian open 1st round (when players dont need to worry about some upcoming big tournaments) and the rest of the dates are good enought as of today.
I like your ideas in general, but are you sure with this Davis Cup suggestion? One week after the Aussie first round? :confused: That means that DC would be even more boring than today with all the top-players playing in the second week down under instead of supporting their country.

marcRD
03-24-2010, 10:30 PM
I like your ideas in general, but are you sure with this Davis Cup suggestion? One week after the Aussie first round? :confused: That means that DC would be even more boring than today with all the top-players playing in the second week down under instead of supporting their country.

No, it was rather 1st round of Davis cup which should be played 1 week after the Australian open ends.

thedesertsun
03-24-2010, 10:36 PM
Well, okay... you should correct it.. sounds strange ;)
Although the two finalists or even the semifinalists of Aussie Open would skip the DC first round from exhaustion.

Still very good thoughts, I guess. You can send that to Adam Helfant :lol:

Would love a Grass Masters Series in Halle/Westfalen...

Hewitt =Legend
03-24-2010, 10:38 PM
Well they won't move the Australian Open back to Feb, just impossible and they won't get rid of the tournaments entirely. The best option would be to play 64 draws over one week with one weeks rest in between. Davis Cup should stay where it is. Hard to add a grass masters as you would have to take away a clay one and that aint happening for a while.

marcRD
03-24-2010, 10:46 PM
My calendar would be something like this:

03.01: Doha+american tournaments
10.01: Dubai+american tournaments
17.01: Indian Wells
24.01: small american tournaments
31.01: Miami
07.02:Small american tournaments+small Australian tournaments
15.02:Australian Open
05.03: Davis Cup
08.03: Two weeks European hardcourt tournaments+South american clay court tournaments
22.03:Buenos Aires MS (optional)
29.03:small clay tournaments (Houston, Casablanca..)
05.04:Barcelona
12.04:Monte Carlo
19.04:small tournaments
26.04:Hamburg
03.05:Rome
10.05:small tournaments
17.05:Roland Garros
01.06:small grass tournaments
08.06:Halle MS
15.06:Queens 500
22.06:small tournaments
29.06:Wimbledon
18.07: Davis cup
21.07:american summer hardcourt season+European postRG clay season

That is a good 1st half for the year, I may be increasing here the number of AMS tournaments by 1, but at the same time it will be alot more grass and clay tournaments (3 full months of clay and 6 weeks of grass), more natural surfaces that wont destroy player's knees and ankles.

Anything you guys find wrong with my schedule?

moon language
03-24-2010, 10:48 PM
Keep them and make them both grass. The US has enough hardcourt tournaments as it is and since the grass season can't really be extended without screwing with the traditional dates of Roland Garros and Wimbledon this would be one way to get more grass into the schedule. You'd also end up with grass tournaments neatly bracketing clay season.

nobama
03-25-2010, 12:35 AM
I think one of them should be shortened to one week (probably IW) so the claycourt season can start sooner and MC can be mandatory. The extra week can go towards the grass court season. Maybe they can make Queens a masters event and then have a week between Queens and Wimbledon.why does MC need to be mandatory?

Action Jackson
03-25-2010, 12:39 AM
My calendar would be something like this:

03.01: Doha+american tournaments
10.01: Dubai+american tournaments
17.01: Indian Wells
24.01: small american tournaments
31.01: Miami
07.02:Small american tournaments+small Australian tournaments
15.02:Australian Open
05.03: Davis Cup
08.03: Two weeks European hardcourt tournaments+South american clay court tournaments
22.03:Buenos Aires MS (optional)
29.03:small clay tournaments (Houston, Casablanca..)
05.04:Barcelona
12.04:Monte Carlo
19.04:small tournaments
26.04:Hamburg
03.05:Rome
10.05:small tournaments
17.05:Roland Garros
01.06:small grass tournaments
08.06:Halle MS
15.06:Queens 500
22.06:small tournaments
29.06:Wimbledon
18.07: Davis cup
21.07:american summer hardcourt season+European postRG clay season

That is a good 1st half for the year, I may be increasing here the number of AMS tournaments by 1, but at the same time it will be alot more grass and clay tournaments (3 full months of clay and 6 weeks of grass), more natural surfaces that wont destroy player's knees and ankles.

Anything you guys find wrong with my schedule?

It's been done already in the schedule thread and it won't happen.

Bad Religion
03-25-2010, 12:44 AM
Indian Wells : Begins on Monday and the Final is played on Wednesday (10 days)
Miami : Begins on Friday and the Final on Sunday (10 days)

heya
03-25-2010, 01:07 AM
Get rid of Indian Wells & Miami because journeymen beat Federer without cheating?

marcRD
03-25-2010, 01:26 AM
Get rid of Indian Wells & Miami because journeymen beat Federer without cheating?

Yes, because we are all obsessed with Federer and we cant stand to see him lose any matches at all. I cant help it really, all my posts must be about Federer and I can only think about him all day and to see him lose any match feels as bad as losing a family member. You are lucky that you dont have any obsession with any player.

Fee
03-25-2010, 01:46 AM
marcRD, that's exactly what I would love to see and probably most of the other fans too.
I guess one big problem is that RG and Wimbledon both don't want to move...

The AO people have already said they are absolutely not willing to move their slam because they obviously sell more tickets during school holidays (and get all the volunteers they need). RG and Wimbledon have both also said that they will not move thier events (completely ridiculous, Wimb could start one week later, but starting RG one week earlier might increase the rain delays). No one is going to schedule a masters event the Monday after a slam or the week before a slam, so no, shortening or eliminating IW or Miami will not change the grass season or create space for a grass masters.

Miami has more history than IW. Until 2001 (I think, maybe 2002), IW was played by the women one week, and the men the following week, and it was held at the Hyatt Resort. Miami was always the bigger event until the Tennis Garden was built and IW achieved almost equal status.

.-Federers_Mate-.
03-25-2010, 01:51 AM
Seriously the atp would never remove miami or indain wells. Maybe the current crop i.e del-potro,murray need to stop whining and toughen up and train harder :rolleyes:

nobama
03-25-2010, 02:07 AM
No, it's get rid of IW and Miami because #1 they're in the USA and #2 they're not on clay.

n8
03-25-2010, 02:14 AM
Indian Wells : Begins on Monday and the Final is played on Wednesday (10 days)
Miami : Begins on Friday and the Final on Sunday (10 days)

Sounds great at first but tournament organisers, spectators and television guys wouldn't like a Wednesday final (and Monday/Tuesday semis) in Indian Wells.

Ozone
03-25-2010, 02:17 AM
If this was in Northern Africa, or Europe even, you wouldnt be talking

silverwhite
03-25-2010, 02:44 AM
Get rid of Cincinnati!

No need. Just downgrade Cincy and Montreal/Toronto, shorten IW and Miami, and move them to the US hardcourt season. :bolt:

silverwhite
03-25-2010, 02:47 AM
yes I'm not sure everybody realizes that, esp when they speak about a longer grass season, but THIS is something which I don't think one could change at all.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Unless they extend the grasscourt season a few weeks after Wimby...

duong
03-25-2010, 10:12 AM
My calendar would be something like this:

03.01: Doha+american tournaments
10.01: Dubai+american tournaments
17.01: Indian Wells
24.01: small american tournaments
31.01: Miami
07.02:Small american tournaments+small Australian tournaments
15.02:Australian Open
05.03: Davis Cup
08.03: Two weeks European hardcourt tournaments+South american clay court tournaments
22.03:Buenos Aires MS (optional)
29.03:small clay tournaments (Houston, Casablanca..)
05.04:Barcelona
12.04:Monte Carlo
19.04:small tournaments
26.04:Hamburg
03.05:Rome
10.05:small tournaments
17.05:Roland Garros
01.06:small grass tournaments
08.06:Halle MS
15.06:Queens 500
22.06:small tournaments
29.06:Wimbledon
18.07: Davis cup
21.07:american summer hardcourt season+European postRG clay season

That is a good 1st half for the year, I may be increasing here the number of AMS tournaments by 1, but at the same time it will be alot more grass and clay tournaments (3 full months of clay and 6 weeks of grass), more natural surfaces that wont destroy player's knees and ankles.

Anything you guys find wrong with my schedule?

some interesting ideas, but your clay season is not longer than the current one : there may even be less claycourt tournaments as the American clay season is shorter by one week, and one wonders what the summer clay season (Bastad-Hamburg-Gstaad) becomes in your scheme, competing with summer hardcourt season.

The spring clay season still has that huge density which it already has, and which is much criticized.

Moreover although it's pleasant to think of Indian Wells and Miami before the Australian Open, the preparation for the Australian Open looks quite short with your calendar if you consider the jetlag (maybe with Indian Wells instead of Miami it might be better).

Corswandt
03-25-2010, 11:03 AM
The Queens and Halle didn't even want to invest the money to be ATP500 tournaments !

Because they already get plenty of top players even while playing peanuts for prize money. It's the same problem with WTA Sydney - typically 7-8 out of the top 10 (9 in 2010 IIRC) competing for a prize money of 600.000 USD, which is ridiculous.

We should move the French open 1 week earler to the middle of may

See below:

starting RG one week earlier might increase the rain delays

Moving RG to even just a week earlier would make the chances of it running into bad weather much likelier. It's Wimbledon that has to move if we're to have not a proper "grasscourt season" (since that seems to be out of the question) but a proper schedule of warmups for Wimbledon.

As for IW and Miami, even though they're basically cheap imitations of the Slams (combined ATP+WTA, 7 round, 2 week events), I like them because, at least for the WTA, the 96 player draws greatly increase the chances for upsets; the 2R sees several overranked, slumping or merely rusty seeds immediately facing players with a match win (more, if they're qualifiers) under their belts, and the massacre of seeds typically begins right away.

out_here_grindin
03-25-2010, 02:31 PM
I love it when people talk about moving the slams....as if that's ever going to happen. :lol:

I can't see playing Miami early in the year as the weather is not that warm. The average temp in Miami for January & February was 64F. And no way could either Miami or IW be played in the summer. The average temp in Palm Springs in July/August is well over 100F. Miami is around 90F, but much more humid. It has to be just as bad, if not worse than Cincy & DC in terms of heat index.

What's wrong with that? 64F is a comfortable temperature for tennis.

marcRD
03-25-2010, 03:26 PM
Moving RG to even just a week earlier would make the chances of it running into bad weather much likelier. It's Wimbledon that has to move if we're to have not a proper "grasscourt season" (since that seems to be out of the question) but a proper schedule of warmups for Wimbledon.


Well, we could still move Wimbledon up 1 week and have Halle master series in between RG and Wimbledon, Queens just before Wimbledon. That would still be good enought for me as clay season would be extended 1 more week. It would end up something like this:

03.01: Doha+american tournaments
10.01: Dubai+american tournaments
17.01: Indian Wells
24.01: small american tournaments
31.01: Miami
07.02:Small american tournaments+small Australian tournaments
15.02:Australian Open
05.03: Davis Cup
08.03: Two weeks European hardcourt tournaments+South american clay court tournaments
22.03:Buenos Aires MS (optional)
29.03:small clay tournaments (Houston, Casablanca..)
05.04:Barcelona 500
12.04:Monte Carlo
19.04:small tournaments
26.04:small tournaments
03.05:Rome
10.05:Hamburg 500
17.05:small tournaments
24.05:Roland Garros
01.06:small grass tournaments
08.06:Halle MS
15.06:Queens
29.06:Wimbledon
18.07: Davis cup
21.07:american summer hardcourt season+European postRG clay season

Federer could easily play 4 clay tournaments (Buenos Aires, Monte Carlo, Hamburg, Rome) and Nadal could play 5-6 full weeks without getting tired with so much rest as it is in this schedule in between tournaments.

I would also like to see the 4 first seeds to get bye in small tournaments 1st rounds so they only need to play 4 matches and in all master series it should be only 5 matches (but I would love to see 5 set finals), I dont think the audiance cares anyway to see Federer or Nadal play someone ranked 80th in the world in the 1st round in lets say Queens or Barcelona.

Fee
03-25-2010, 06:33 PM
Andy Roddick will win RG before Tennis Australia will agree to move the AO, and the Slams run tennis because they have all the money and all the clout.

Langers
03-26-2010, 03:41 PM
Yeah, the AO aint moving. Not when it continues to attract record crowds every single year.

IW and Mimai, I think they do span too long and make the clay season too cramped. One needs to be pushed forward.

duong
03-26-2010, 04:11 PM
As for IW and Miami, even though they're basically cheap imitations of the Slams (combined ATP+WTA, 7 round, 2 week events), I like them because, at least for the WTA, the 96 player draws greatly increase the chances for upsets; the 2R sees several overranked, slumping or merely rusty seeds immediately facing players with a match win (more, if they're qualifiers) under their belts, and the massacre of seeds typically begins right away.

yes, it's a real "theoretical" interest.

But I don't know the overall stats, but in Indian Wells, only 9 of 32 seeds lost in their first round.

And among these 9 unseeded players, only 2 -Almagro (now seeded in Miami) and Garcia-Lopez (world number 40-45 then who would be in a 56-draw)- reached next round. As you can see those two would have taken part in a 56-draw anyway.

Of course as Nathaliia says, it's interesting that a bigger community of players meets in the same place, and see which round they reach like in a grand slam.

But yet does it compensate the problems of the pressure on the calendar, especially on clay season ?

There used to be grand slams for that, then Key Biscayne was added with a 96-draw, and now there is also Indian Wells. Isn't it too much ? The question may at least be raised.

By the way, the question of the density of clay season may also be raised.

For instance, until 1989, Barcelona, which is a very famous clay tournament, where many players want to play, was played in fall. Adding this tournament plus 3 MS clay tournaments in a short part of the season clearly makes some pressure in the calendar. Why not put it in summer together with Hamburg for instance ? instead of Stuttgart for instance.

If Barcelona was in summer, it would clearly help some Spanish and SouthAmerican players who definitely want to play it, the most notorious one being of course the one who wins so much on clay that he always plays all week when he's engaged in a clay tournament :lol: ... and one who has two big clay tournaments in his country, among whom his preferred is the (theoretically) least important one (Barcelona) :rolleyes:

Geo
03-26-2010, 06:57 PM
Nope. They're great events.

:retard: thread :o

Horatio Caine
03-26-2010, 11:16 PM
64 player draw and just have these events as 1 week events would be enough.

They won't get rid of them.

Yep, 64-draws and 1 week events could work, but I guess that the very best players will moan if the tournaments are played back-to-back (Canada & Cincy is bad enough). Not to mention that they would probably still be preceded by Dubai and Davis Cup in the two weeks before...probably wouldn't be a popular schedule.

Action Jackson
03-26-2010, 11:19 PM
Yep, 64-draws and 1 week events could work, but I guess that the very best players will moan if the tournaments are played back-to-back (Canada & Cincy is bad enough). Not to mention that they would probably still be preceded by Dubai and Davis Cup in the two weeks before...probably wouldn't be a popular schedule.

There shouldn't be back to back Masters events anywhere, it's not like they couldn't throw a MM in between them. It's not like they don't compress the clay schedule before RG.

guapogreg08
03-26-2010, 11:27 PM
I'd suggest to completely eliminate mud season and make good ol' grass season a proper one, but that's just me of course...dirt season is for talentless grinders and pushers, this is not the kind of tennis I prefer to watch. How about this topic for a change?

ditto

duong
03-26-2010, 11:57 PM
Yep, 64-draws and 1 week events could work, but I guess that the very best players will moan if the tournaments are played back-to-back (Canada & Cincy is bad enough). Not to mention that they would probably still be preceded by Dubai and Davis Cup in the two weeks before...probably wouldn't be a popular schedule.

yes you're right :yeah: : it would only allow a longer clay season if they put them back to back or if they start playing right after Davis Cup.

it's not a good idea actually :sad:

eventually I think it's better keeping them for the reasons which Nathaliia explained.

star
03-27-2010, 12:05 AM
surely it would be a priority for the calendar to switch at least one of these to only one week ... or even take off Indian Wells (although I prefer Indian Wells than Miami from TV, but I've heard that Miami is a better stadium and organization, history, all of this ...)

More history, but the IW stadium is better. I think the Miami tournament has more international flavor because of the latin population of the area. Just for me, I think the IW tournament is nicer to attend. First, there's rarely any rain. Second, the tournament is easy to get to with places to stay quite close to the venue and many street routes entering the tournament site. I don't know what you mean by better organization, so I can't address that.

Anyway, I'm not for any of the U.S. tournaments being eliminated. Seeing tennis just on TV isn't what I like. Having these two tournaments on opposite sides of the U.S. gives a lot of opportunity to see live tennis.

Horatio Caine
03-27-2010, 12:11 AM
yes you're right :yeah: : it would only allow a longer clay season if they put them back to back or if they start playing right after Davis Cup.

it's not a good idea actually :sad:

eventually I think it's better keeping them for the reasons which Nathaliia explained.

I guess that if we make them 1-week events and stage them back-to-back, we could eliminate 2 weeks from the season. Although, with the current calendar as it is, we would have Dubai and Davis Cup immediately preceding these Masters events, and then Monte Carlo beginning shortly after...we can all see how this wouldn't be beneficial for the best players.

As AJ says, the best thing would be to schedule a MM event in between (a good excuse to upgrade Sunrise), although that would effectively mean that we could only shorten the season by 1 week by seeking to alter events in March.

Thus, as you (and Nathi) suggest, it is hardly worth messing with these two events. :lol:

Besides, as a fan I'm reasonably happy with the set-up. The Tour is a little 'frantic' heading into IW & Miami (with 3 events in some weeks), which makes it a little harder for fans to follow closely. In March, it is nice to see that the matches can be spread over a slightly longer time period. :)

duong
03-27-2010, 12:19 AM
As AJ says, the best thing would be to schedule a MM event in between (a good excuse to upgrade Sunrise), although that would effectively mean that we could only shorten the season by 1 week by seeking to alter events in March.

yes but if they do that, and to get 1 week, you also need to start IW right after Davis Cup, which is very hard, even harder than putting them back to back imo.

In the end the only real solution imo would be cancel one of those two events :shrug:


Thus, as you (and Nathi) suggest, it is hardly worth messing with these two events. :lol:

Besides, as a fan I'm reasonably happy with the set-up. The Tour is a little 'frantic' heading into IW & Miami (with 3 events in some weeks), which makes it a little harder for fans to follow closely. In March, it is nice to see that the matches can be spread over a slightly longer time period. :)

yes the same for me :yeah:

Everko
03-28-2012, 07:08 PM
Time to re-visit this. Do people still enjoy these events? They need to cut to one week each and eliminate one of them as quick. The biggest issue is the hard court serious events right before clay season. it risks injuries more than clay events. I don;t understand why players would want to play in these surfaces in the middle of nowhere in the season.

LoveFifteen
03-28-2012, 07:12 PM
These are great events and they are consistently voted some of the players favorite tournaments. They are high-quality events with wonderful activities to do in the surrounding areas. These are very popular, well-attended tournaments. I don't understand the hate.

I'd be fine with them switching these tournaments to clay, considering how bad hard courts are for your body.

Johnny Groove
03-28-2012, 07:12 PM
One week, yes.

And switch to green clay.

v-money
03-28-2012, 07:13 PM
If IW and Miami are so physically tolling and expose a play to injury then why do the top players choose to play doubles?

Start da Game
03-28-2012, 07:14 PM
concurred, everko......welcome back......we don't need either event......i am following IW/miami this year as a one off but i believe the tour doesn't need them......they are pointless and eat into the clay schedule making it difficult to the players in the clay season......

Poirot123
03-28-2012, 07:14 PM
They should rename Miami a pushers' paradise. Slowest courts of all time. I just can't enjoy watching the likes of Gilles Simon push the ball back in play over and over again with nothing shots. He can retrieve almost everything, even if you smash the ball back at him. It's boring.

v-money
03-28-2012, 07:16 PM
Nadal can go play in his sandbox instead of playing these events. Should make his fans happy.

thrust
03-28-2012, 07:22 PM
If IW and Miami are so physically tolling and expose a play to injury then why do the top players choose to play doubles?

EXACTLY! By making them one week tournaments, players would be playing too many consecutive days, which I would think is more difficult than the present situation. Also, there is a half week before the top players have to start Miami after IW. They are two of the very biggest and money rewarding tournaments outside the slams. To do away with either tournament would be stupid.

thrust
03-28-2012, 07:24 PM
One week, yes.

And switch to green clay.

Switching to green clay makes sense.

Start da Game
03-28-2012, 07:26 PM
They should rename Miami a pushers' paradise. Slowest courts of all time. I just can't enjoy watching the likes of Gilles Simon push the ball back in play over and over again with nothing shots. He can retrieve almost everything, even if you smash the ball back at him. It's boring.

the beauty of slow courts is they bring the angles into play......there's more thinking involved and it's like chess......you can't get away bashing the ball and blasting throug the opponent......

Pirata.
03-28-2012, 07:26 PM
Actually, green clay might not be a bad idea. I am not an expert on the specifics of court types, but would it be an easier transition from hard to clay? I know its harder and faster than conventional red clay, but it's not as hard as your typical hard court. Maybe something for the ATP to consider.

Start da Game
03-28-2012, 07:29 PM
we should recommend green clay for all the us events including us open......the surface plays fast, almost like hardcourts, is much more softer on the body and players can slide freely without breaking their ankles......what more does anyone want?

one drawback of green clay is the surface becomes a mess when it rains on it......

Everko
03-28-2012, 07:32 PM
we should recommend green clay for all the us events including us open......the surface plays fast, almost like hardcourts, is much more softer on the body and players can slide freely without breaking their ankles......what more does anyone want?

Yes I agree. It's like the ATP wants the most fast and fit players to have hurt knees with all these hard court events that are made for tearing knees and feet.

v-money
03-28-2012, 07:32 PM
we should recommend green clay for all the us events including us open......the surface plays fast, almost like hardcourts, is much more softer on the body and players can slide freely without breaking their ankles......what more does anyone want?

For the ATP to stop tailoring to the wishes of Uncle Toni and Nadal.

More grass courts instead of sand, if you ask me.

Everko
03-28-2012, 07:35 PM
For the ATP to stop tailoring to the wishes of Uncle Toni and Nadal.

.

You must have fun living on Ignorance Cliff

TigerTim
03-28-2012, 07:38 PM
Demote Miami to 500 status, Indian Wells to remain with a faster surface and extend the grass court season post Wimbledon with Halle a Masters 1000

v-money
03-28-2012, 07:43 PM
You must have fun living on Ignorance Cliff

:speakles:

Everko, one of the geniuses that doesn't believe in match-ups, is calling me ignorant. The same Everko that believes that believes that Nadal has good on-court sportsmanship. Now I've seen it all.

ATP have been letting Nadal get a free ride for too long, with these slow courts and allowing his to cheat every match without even a warning. They shouldn't be making more changes to fit his moonballing game.

Snowwy
03-28-2012, 07:44 PM
Doesn't tht just make the season longer by having 4 tournaments this month instead of two?

shanks
03-28-2012, 07:48 PM
Indian Wells & Miami do not lead up to anything important. They are totally IRRELEVANT for the clay season. This has been my biggest frustrating point over the years with IW & Miami
It should ideally lead to a hard court grand slam. Because of the HUGE ranking points involved players have no option but to play these tournaments.

v-money
03-28-2012, 07:50 PM
So shanks and General Shankar are in agreement. Must be brothers...at least.

rocketassist
03-28-2012, 07:51 PM
You know what?

This is the best suggestion Everko's ever made.

However he only posted it when Ljubo and Roddick won them, and now Federer's won it this year, it's bumped again. Nothing was said when Djokovic-Nadal contested last year's finals.

I'd be happy to see them go for the right reasons, whereas Everko just wants them to go cause his faves aren't winning them AGAIN. Just like the indoor season. :zzz:

Dougie
03-28-2012, 08:03 PM
Indian Wells & Miami do not lead up to anything important. They are totally IRRELEVANT for the clay season. This has been my biggest frustrating point over the years with IW & Miami
It should ideally lead to a hard court grand slam. Because of the HUGE ranking points involved players have no option but to play these tournaments.

This is actually why I´m not too crazy about these two tournaments either. It seems kind of pointless to play two hc TMS 1000 events back to back, and then move on to clay. Its like these two tournaments exist only for their own sake, not because they are relevant in the context of the whole season. I´m not saying "get rid of them", but one would be enough.

LoveFifteen
03-28-2012, 08:06 PM
Why downgrade Miami? It's a huge and popular event? Why keep Shanghai a Masters if the stands are empty? I don't get the IW and Miami hate. They are great tournaments, well attended, and loved by the players/fans.

Lee
03-28-2012, 08:08 PM
People going to these tournaments enjoy them. Players played in these tournaments like them. But since some MTFers don't care about them, let's kill these tournaments. :yeah:

Lee
03-28-2012, 08:10 PM
Indian Wells & Miami do not lead up to anything important. They are totally IRRELEVANT for the clay season. This has been my biggest frustrating point over the years with IW & Miami
It should ideally lead to a hard court grand slam. Because of the HUGE ranking points involved players have no option but to play these tournaments.

I don't know tennis tournaments are only relevant if they lead to slams. Let's remove all challengers and futures. They are even further away from leading to slams.

156mphserve
03-28-2012, 08:34 PM
These tournaments don't need to be 2 weeks long imo, feels like it's dragging on forever.

shanks
03-28-2012, 08:56 PM
I don't know tennis tournaments are only relevant if they lead to slams. Let's remove all challengers and futures. They are even further away from leading to slams.

If you check all Masters 1000 events on the calendar - Monte Carlo, Rome & Madrid lead towards French Open. Toronto & Cincinnati lead towards the US Open. Shanghai & Paris lead towards ATP World Tour Finals held indoors.
It all makes sense and logic except IW & Miami. It seems an aberration on the calendar. IF they can move AUS Open to Feb-Mar and hold these events in Jan-Feb, it would make alot more sense as it will be the pathway to the AUS Open.. I am not sure whether its feasible though.

star
03-28-2012, 09:08 PM
If you check all Masters 1000 events on the calendar - Monte Carlo, Rome & Madrid lead towards French Open. Toronto & Cincinnati lead towards the US Open. Shanghai & Paris lead towards ATP World Tour Finals held indoors.
It all makes sense and logic except IW & Miami. It seems an aberration on the calendar. IF they can move AUS Open to Feb-Mar and hold these events in Jan-Feb, it would make alot more sense as it will be the pathway to the AUS Open.. I am not sure whether its feasible though.

well, it that’s how you are justifying them — it makes even less sense. They should be in Australia then.

156mphserve
03-28-2012, 09:09 PM
1000 tournaments shouldn't have to lead to anything important, thye are worth 1000 point, they are important all by themselves.

That being said I thinkt ehy should cut then to 1 week. That would probably include cutting them to 64 or 56 players like the other 1000's

shanks
03-28-2012, 09:42 PM
well, it that’s how you are justifying them — it makes even less sense. They should be in Australia then.

Why not??:confused: It makes perfect sense. Tennis players are used to traveling all over the world. There are no masters 1000 events in Australia. It is better than IW & Miami being treated as some 5th & 6th Grand Slams which they are not!

Lee
03-28-2012, 10:29 PM
1000 tournaments shouldn't have to lead to anything important, thye are worth 1000 point, they are important all by themselves.

That being said I thinkt ehy should cut then to 1 week. That would probably include cutting them to 64 or 56 players like the other 1000's

50-100 rank players have a much better chance playing a 1000 event with these 96 players draws. It is easier on the body for top players as they mostly have a week to rest between the 1000s. Especially when they are going to face the gruelling clay court in the next 3 months.

Also, these two events, especially IW, allow top singles to play doubles which provide something slightly different for fans to enjoy.

From a fan's perspectively, especially one who really enjoy the first week of IW, cutting it to one week made the event lost its charm.

Lee
03-28-2012, 10:34 PM
Why not??:confused: It makes perfect sense. Tennis players are used to traveling all over the world. There are no masters 1000 events in Australia. It is better than IW & Miami being treated as some 5th & 6th Grand Slams which they are not!

First, you need to persuade Tennis Australia to play the event in Feb or March. Second, you need to persuade players that playing leading events for AO on the other half of the world make sense.

IW and Miami are 1000 events, not 5th/6th slams. People may want to label them this way is not going to change the fact. Just like these tournaments are standing on their own feet, not a lead-up to a slam.

156mphserve
03-28-2012, 11:01 PM
50-100 rank players have a much better chance playing a 1000 event with these 96 players draws.

But it doesn't really help them a whole lot, the extra round at the beginning is only worth 25 if you win, and then to 45 with another win, compared to 45 for 1 win at a regular 1000 event. They need to win 2 MD matches to get the same amount of points as 1 MD match in a regular 1000. The extra round is no benefit with regards to points as they won't likely earn the 45 for making the round of 32 anyway

going 3 or 4 days without tennis at the beginning of the first week, and then 2 or 3 more without Tv or streams and when no top players are playing anyway, it's just boring. I still follow it but then by the end of the 2nd week, I get bored of following the same tournament for 2 weeks.

Maybe make the 2 tournaments over 3 weeks or something like that. By the time a tournament gets to the business end of it, I'm tired of it:o

Lee
03-28-2012, 11:34 PM
But it doesn't really help them a whole lot, the extra round at the beginning is only worth 25 if you win, and then to 45 with another win, compared to 45 for 1 win at a regular 1000 event. They need to win 2 MD matches to get the same amount of points as 1 MD match in a regular 1000. The extra round is no benefit with regards to points as they won't likely earn the 45 for making the round of 32 anyway

going 3 or 4 days without tennis at the beginning of the first week, and then 2 or 3 more without Tv or streams and when no top players are playing anyway, it's just boring. I still follow it but then by the end of the 2nd week, I get bored of following the same tournament for 2 weeks.

Maybe make the 2 tournaments over 3 weeks or something like that. By the time a tournament gets to the business end of it, I'm tired of it:o

I mean the lower rank players have a chance to play a 1000 event, not how many points they gain.

I have no problem without tennis on TV for a week. When I started following tennis, it was real hard to watch any on TV other than a slam :shrug:

156mphserve
03-28-2012, 11:53 PM
I'm not sure getting to play a 1000 event is beneficial to them when they will likely lose first round. especially the european players, and clay courters who probably don't want to come over to play it because the first round loser paycheck barely covers travel costs, but they are forced to because it's mandatory. Volandri skipped both but played challengers inbetween.

It's not as much the tenis on TV as I don't have SN1 anyway so I don't get to watch any of it anyway, but no streams, no top players, the 3 or 4 days with no period, by the time the the top players are playing on a stream the first week is over, and I'm kinda already bored because nothing of any significance has happened. Maybe I just need a longer attention span.

If it's not broke don't fix it, but I enjoy the other 1000 events more

Henry Chinaski
03-29-2012, 12:06 AM
lower ranked players lose thousands by being forced to play these bloated events. they get shafted.

fans get shafted because the tournaments aren't even available to watch in the early rounds.

Action Jackson
03-29-2012, 12:29 AM
I mean the lower rank players have a chance to play a 1000 event, not how many points they gain.

I have no problem without tennis on TV for a week. When I started following tennis, it was real hard to watch any on TV other than a slam :shrug:

Most lower ranked players lose money by playing Indian Wells and Miami.

Mountaindewslave
03-29-2012, 12:40 AM
stupidest idea ever. why would you eliminate the two most popular and biggest funded hard court masters? it just makes no sense. you have these two tournaments taking up the entirety of March, that really is not that bad of a schedule? maybe shorten each to 1 week in duration that is about all that needs to be changed.

BOth Indian Wells and Miami i believe statistically are the most visited Masters 1000 tournaments, create tons of revenue for the ATP, and often feature great tennis. they work great how they are now unfortunately the OP is just some Nadal bitch who wants to start the clay season early or something.

one of my favorite parts of the season so don't f this shit up

Action Jackson
03-29-2012, 12:51 AM
Easy to be most visited when the tournaments go longer than a week.

sexybeast
03-29-2012, 12:52 AM
These tournaments are old relics that belong to an era when tennis was dominated by american players and these tournaments were great finale of the first hardcourt season where americans played on several events (San Jose, Memphis) leading to IW/Miami. It is the same with the Usopen series, these people seem to live in another era alltogether, european players just wont waste time on smaller american venues. It must be said that both IW and Miami are extremly well financed and money rules the world so they are legitimate as they are well financed and get some attention, however it is not big enought to take up 4 weeks in the calendar, if you want to cut the season 2 weeks, here is a golden moment to find 2 weeks without much sacrifice. Much better than to cut the week between Paris and Master cup, the only 2 important indoor events are now back to back?

That is just crazy.

paseo
03-29-2012, 01:12 AM
Most lower ranked players lose money by playing Indian Wells and Miami.

How?

Johnny Groove
03-29-2012, 01:27 AM
Most lower ranked players lose money by playing Indian Wells and Miami.

Not if you make the main draw.

Lee
03-29-2012, 02:52 AM
Not if you make the main draw.

They are not forced to play qualifying. They can choose to play challengers. Do I get this wrong?

Lee
03-29-2012, 02:59 AM
Easy to be most visited when the tournaments go longer than a week.

Do you know that usually you can't even get a ground pass in the first weekend in Indian Wells unless you get tickets beforehand? Considering how big the venue is.

Snowwy
03-29-2012, 03:07 AM
Most lower ranked players lose money by playing Indian Wells and Miami.

How? Or are you talking about the ones in the qualifying draws? Regardless, this doesn't make any sense.

Current System

50-100 get 1st round money
100+ have a chance to qualify if they want and could get 1st round money.

Other System

50-100 risk not getting any money and if they beat two other top 100 players get R1 money.
100+ Get to go to play challengers.

Smoke944
03-29-2012, 03:11 AM
How? Or are you talking about the ones in the qualifying draws? Regardless, this doesn't make any sense.

Current System

50-100 get 1st round money
100+ have a chance to qualify if they want and could get 1st round money.

Other System

50-100 risk not getting any money and if they beat two other top 100 players get R1 money.
100+ Get to go to play challengers.

He means guys in the MD. And what he's saying is that it's very expensive to have to hang around the States if you lose early in Indian Wells.

Henry Chinaski
03-29-2012, 03:33 AM
It was Sergiy Stakhovsky who made the point about players losing money by being forced to play IW and Miami.

We're not plucking allegations out of our asses here.

Lee
03-29-2012, 03:50 AM
It was Sergiy Stakhovsky who made the point about players losing money by being forced to play IW and Miami.

We're not plucking allegations out of our asses here.

There is no gurantee that he would not lose money if he did not win a round in a 250 or 500 event that he entered voluntarily, right?

Lee
03-29-2012, 04:13 AM
this year, anyone who get into the MD of IW and Miami, with get over 15,000USD, and if he was out in first week of IW, he could probably play Dallas challenger. So unless an non-north america player has a huge entourage and lives in luxury hotel for the three weeks (he can always go home if he is out of Miami in the first week), there should be some money left.

nobama
03-29-2012, 04:27 AM
Why downgrade Miami? It's a huge and popular event? Why keep Shanghai a Masters if the stands are empty? I don't get the IW and Miami hate. They are great tournaments, well attended, and loved by the players/fans.
Yep and IW was sold out this year. Plus it's the only tournament I'm aware of that has hawkeye on all courts. If players didn't enjoy these events and wanted them cancelled they would boycott them simple as that.

Kat_YYZ
03-29-2012, 04:31 AM
It'd only make sense to eliminate one of these events if the clay season could then be dragged a week or two earlier, and as a result, a bigger break between RG and Wimbledon. The players have wanted that for a long time. But I don't think it would happen. Doing it just to please claytards is not a good enough reason.

abraxas21
03-29-2012, 04:38 AM
both of these MS should (and in fact i think they will) be moved to asia eventually and played between january and february as a prelude to the AO.

also, make them last 1 week each.

that's all there needs to be said about this

Henry Chinaski
03-29-2012, 04:38 AM
Stakhovsky said a majority of the leading players were sympathetic to the demands of the lower-ranked competitors.

"More than 80 percent of the top players are on the same page as the rest of the players, saying that grand slams are not paying enough and that some mandatory events are not having proper prize money distribution," Stakhovsky added.

"We all have issues. My issue is Indian Wells and Miami are mandatory events and if I lose in the first round I am minus (earnings). I am not making money off these tournaments.

"It's four weeks spent in the United States, it's airfares and hotels ... if you're out in the first round you're unable to pay your coach," said the Ukrainian.

....

Pirata.
03-29-2012, 04:46 AM
I want to know who this selfish 20% is! ATP needs their own version of Gossip Girl.

Naudio Spanlatine
03-29-2012, 04:54 AM
They should eliminate these courts, even the clay courts are faster than hardcourts these days:tape: :ignore:

abraxas21
03-29-2012, 04:54 AM
well, we can presume that rafito -let's move the WTF because taxes are too high in the UK- nadal is probly in that 20%

Ackms421
03-29-2012, 05:02 AM
both of these MS should (and in fact i think they will) be moved to asia eventually and played between january and february as a prelude to the AO.

also, make them last 1 week each.

that's all there needs to be said about this

That's pretty ridiculous. Asia was pretty fortunate to get Shanghai and they have had difficulties getting bodies into the stands there. They are not moving two of the tour's staple events (or canceling them). Twenty years ago either of these events might have been more prestigious than the Australian Open. The Aussie is quite an impressive event now, but Shanghai isn't. There is no reason to think Indian Wells and Miami are going anywhere, and there is no reason that they should. Just take a look at the winners of both events for the past 20 years if you need clarification on how important/prestigious the events actually are.

156mphserve
03-29-2012, 06:39 AM
There is no gurantee that he would not lose money if he did not win a round in a 250 or 500 event that he entered voluntarily, right?

But they aren't being forced to play said 250 or 500 event, and not being forced to lose money.

Losing money may be losing money no matter what event you play, but you are more likely to not lose money if you play an event close to you or an event that is weaker. One should not be forced to go someone and as a result lose money.

this year, anyone who get into the MD of IW and Miami, with get over 15,000USD, and if he was out in first week of IW, he could probably play Dallas challenger. So unless an non-north america player has a huge entourage and lives in luxury hotel for the three weeks (he can always go home if he is out of Miami in the first week), there should be some money left.

I'm just basing it on Stakhovsky's comment. Doesn't really add up to me either but he's an ATP player so he would know more about it than me:shrug:

I think they should stay mandatory, and not be eliminated. More prize money is my biggest concern. A player ranked around 100 is probably barely getting by financially. If they have to go play an event they should at least get enough money so that they can break even, if not don't make it so they have to go there and make it worse for them financially.

I would like it shortened from 4 to 3 weeks at least, but I can live with it the way it is now, but the money should be changed imo.

EddieNero
03-29-2012, 06:43 AM
Time to eliminate Kneedaltards from this forum.
I'm sure this thread has nothing to do with the fact Nadal hasn't won a M1000 on hc since 2009.

Chirag
03-29-2012, 07:09 AM
I go with the popular suggestion of reducing it to 1 week

Action Jackson
03-29-2012, 07:33 AM
He means guys in the MD. And what he's saying is that it's very expensive to have to hang around the States if you lose early in Indian Wells.

Airfares aren't cheap, especially if they have to change tickets, then with the expenses of paying the coach or trainer, local taxes then it's an expensive trip many wouldn't play unless it was mandatory.

It was Sergiy Stakhovsky who made the point about players losing money by being forced to play IW and Miami.

We're not plucking allegations out of our asses here.

DGT, Kavcic also mentioned that they when they went there last year, they were 5K out of pocket plus Stakhovsky isn't a fool who would pluck this out of nowhere. It's been an issue simmering for a while.

There is no gurantee that he would not lose money if he did not win a round in a 250 or 500 event that he entered voluntarily, right?

Stakhovsky and many of the guys who lose out are based in Europe therefore the expenses aren't as great with weaker fields and closer to their base then the losses aren't as great.

Lee
03-29-2012, 02:33 PM
Airfares aren't cheap, especially if they have to change tickets, then with the expenses of paying the coach or trainer, local taxes then it's an expensive trip many wouldn't play unless it was mandatory.



DGT, Kavcic also mentioned that they when they went there last year, they were 5K out of pocket plus Stakhovsky isn't a fool who would pluck this out of nowhere. It's been an issue simmering for a while.



Stakhovsky and many of the guys who lose out are based in Europe therefore the expenses aren't as great with weaker fields and closer to their base then the losses aren't as great.

So the issue should be the basic MD money for mandatory event be higher, not whether these two events should be eliminated.

Sorry that not all lower rank players have the inspiration to try winning bigger events because of money issue. But sometimes, that's the reason some players stay at lower ranks :shrug: Lacking of desire to aim higher.

Action Jackson
03-29-2012, 02:51 PM
So the issue should be the basic MD money for mandatory event be higher, not whether these two events should be eliminated.

Sorry that not all lower rank players have the inspiration to try winning bigger events because of money issue. But sometimes, that's the reason some players stay at lower ranks :shrug: Lacking of desire to aim higher.

Lacking desire, yes every single lower ranked player on tour is a rich kid like Gulbis or Fognini and have generous sponsors that they can stuff around just having a holiday. Ever thought they are trying the best with their abilities within their games.

You do know that most players from around 80 downwards are struggling financially on tour, the prizemoney needs to be distributed better to early rounds.

If it was 64 player draw then it would be fine. Ever since Scottsdale was stopped that increased the cross country travel, there used to be a challenger and money event in California before IW. Then Sunrise was there before Miami, so that lessened the costs.

TorontoNiggy
03-29-2012, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=Everko;9744221]They drag the season. Take way too long, we don't need these days of no tennis.

They should be cut to 64 draws and played over 1 week and maybe eliminate them entirely.

You need to keep your moronic comments to yourself and let the ATP and tournament organizers worry about that, you idiot.

Miami and IW are awesome hard court tournies. Do us a favor and stop posting nonsense like this.