What would satisfy the haters? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What would satisfy the haters?

Fed=ATPTourkilla
01-31-2010, 04:45 PM
What would Fed have to do to persuade them that he's the GOAT? It seems to me that they want to rig the argument against the guy:

Federer loses ---> Proof that he sucks

Federer wins easily ---> Proof of a weak era, he sucks

Federer wins after a struggle ---> Lucky, the Slam fell into his lap, he sucks

Let's look at his career.

- When he was barely out of nappies he beat Sampras at Wimbledon and bagelled Agassi.

- He then easily crushed his own era, destroying the careers of Roddick and Hewitt (the latter having dominated Sampras).

- Now he's breezing past guys much younger than him.

So we seem to be talking about THREE "weak eras" here, not just one.

Yes, he's had a few problems with Nadal. Well, quite a lot of problems actually. :) But who's perfect? Not Nadal himself, who always loses to the same players who get dominated by Fed. And not dull ballbasher Sampras either.

So the question is: What does Federer have to do for you guys to stop hating on his achievements?

Jōris
01-31-2010, 04:53 PM
He should stop killing the ATP Tour with his consistency and passion for the game.

RogerFan82
01-31-2010, 04:54 PM
Awesome post. That SetSampras guy is pathetic with his arguments in trying to belittle federer in another thread.

When a guy who is 28 looks like he hardly broke a sweat after 3 reasonably long sets in heavy conditions and the 222year old looks winded, one should know you are seeing a genius at work.

WHAT A LEGEND ROGER IS :yeah: :yeah:

abraxas21
01-31-2010, 05:00 PM
I think Federer will ultimately go down in history as the GOAT.

Don't pay much attention to MTF. :)

Acer
01-31-2010, 05:00 PM
The haters will be satisfied once he stops winning and guess what Federer just ain't giving them that :)

Jōris
01-31-2010, 05:01 PM
When a guy who is 28 looks like he hardly broke a sweat after 3 reasonably long sets in heavy conditions and the 222year old looks winded

Almost unnatural, one could say.

bobrocks
01-31-2010, 05:02 PM
I would love to see Nadal back healthy for the FO and Fed beat him in the final. That might finally shut the Fedbashers up, once and for all.

Allez
01-31-2010, 05:02 PM
Federer has played against 3 different generations (if you can call them that) and killed them all. Nothing will ever satisfy the haters. If Sampras had been a GOAT Becker, Agassi and whoever else played in the 90's would have won far fewer slams but because his only talent was serving and volleying that was never going to happen. Sampras fans are beyond pathetic. Jealousy is a disease.

Bazooka
01-31-2010, 05:05 PM
For me, he already is.

Now taking out a fit Nadal in RG would be a bonus for him, but not really essential anymore. He can be greater, he hasn't been 100% perfect, because no one is. But the discussion wether there is someone in the Open Era with greater achievements is dead months ago, I think. And comparing him to Rosewall, Laver or Gonzalez is silly.

jasmin
01-31-2010, 05:05 PM
I don't care. It's funny watching the hatred sometimes. They are really just hurt individuals looking for some way to feel better.

Fed=ATPTourkilla
01-31-2010, 05:13 PM
As someone said - it must really, really suck following tennis and being a Fed hater. Especially when he hits a patch of bad form and gets your hopes up that he's done - but then, oh no, he's back again winning yet more Slams. :) I suppose you have the consolation that it can't go on forever.

manuel84
01-31-2010, 05:14 PM
Awesome post. That SetSampras guy is pathetic with his arguments in trying to belittle federer in another thread.


His posts concerning Roger in the past were pretty much level-headed. Watch him when Fed passes Pete for most weeks at #1.:eek:

JediFed
01-31-2010, 05:17 PM
So we seem to be talking about THREE "weak eras" here, not just one.


4, or perhaps 5.

Sampras/Agassi (1968-1972)

Rafter/Moya (1973-1977)

Federer/Hewitt/Roddick/Safin (1978-1982)

Nadal/Djokovic/Murray (1983-1987)

Del Potro (1988-1992).

Noleta
01-31-2010, 05:17 PM
Keep winning.

sawan66278
01-31-2010, 05:20 PM
Federer, even in the eyes of someone like myself who feels he's a bullying ego maniac, cannot deny: Federer is BY FAR the best player of all time...achievement-wise. When ranking the top players of all time, there are many factors and things to consider, but after all is said and done: Federer is #1. Case closed.

What would satisfy me would be humility and not resorting to gamesmanship and cheating toward the end of his amazing career.

Allez
01-31-2010, 05:23 PM
Federer, even in the eyes of someone like myself who feels he's a bullying ego maniac, cannot deny: Federer is BY FAR the best player of all time...achievement-wise. When ranking the top players of all time, there are many factors and things to consider, but after all is said and done: Federer is #1. Case closed.

What would satisfy me would be humility and not resorting to gamesmanship and cheating toward the end of his amazing career.

cheating ? gamesmanship ? Back it up please :rolleyes:

Sophocles
01-31-2010, 05:26 PM
cheating ? gamesmanship ? Back it up please :rolleyes:

You will regret that request.

Allez
01-31-2010, 05:29 PM
You will regret that request.

No I don't think so. Whatever example he has I probably have a million other players who have done and said worse things than Federer. You can accuse Rogi of many things but calling him a cheat is the lamest dig of all time.

Sophocles
01-31-2010, 05:31 PM
No I don't think so. Whatever example he has I probably have a million other players who have done and said worse things than Federer. You can accuse Rogi of many things but calling him a cheat is the lamest dig of all time.

Yes I know, what I meant was... oh never mind.

MatchFederer
01-31-2010, 05:34 PM
cheating ? gamesmanship ? Back it up please :rolleyes:

You will regret that request.

No I don't think so. Whatever example he has I probably have a million other players who have done and said worse things than Federer. You can accuse Rogi of many things but calling him a cheat is the lamest dig of all time.

Yes I know, what I meant was... oh never mind.



.... *LOL*

:lol:

sawan66278
01-31-2010, 05:34 PM
cheating ? gamesmanship ? Back it up please :rolleyes:

Cheating? How about his admission that he took a bathroom break for no real reason other than to break Davydenko's rhythm in the AO QF. As for gamesmanship, how about his barrage in the press about the pressure on Murray. WAY below his alleged status as the "king".

As for other players, if everyone decided to leap off the highest cliff, an insanely stupid act, does that justify my or someone else doing that too?

Rafa = Fed Killa
01-31-2010, 05:36 PM
Being a man and beating his greatest rival (when healthy) in RG.

Being a man and not crying after his greatest rival beats him in a hardcourt GS final.

Being a man and being able to match his greatest rival (not having a bad head to head)

chalkdust
01-31-2010, 05:43 PM
I would love to see Nadal back healthy for the FO and Fed beat him in the final. That might finally shut the Fedbashers up, once and for all.

No, it would just prove to them that Nadal's injuries had prevented him from playing to his best level. Nadal is a better clay-court player, big deal, you can still be Goat without being perfect in every respect. Fed has match-up issues with Nadal also. Again, this happens in tennis and isn't conclusive of overall superiority.

Anyway, I'd love to see a healthy Rafa back playing his best. He is great to watch and a good sport. Nevertheless, Fed is unquestionably the Goat.

prafull
01-31-2010, 05:47 PM
Get a positive H2H against nadal and I will be satisfied.

dodo
01-31-2010, 05:50 PM
Being a man and beating his greatest rival (when healthy) in RG.

Being a man and not crying after his greatest rival beats him in a hardcourt GS final.

Being a man and being able to match his greatest rival (not having a bad head to head)
i know this is a troll post, but whatever, i'm bored.

obviously #2 is impossible, having already happened, so you always leave yourself an out. that Nadal cried in the locker room (by his own admission) after losing W08 probably doesn't change anything for you.

as for #1 and #3, if they were to happen, haters like you would just "asterisk" those matches for whatever convoluted reason. maybe Roger has to take a bathroom break somewhere during one of those, that seems to be enough these days (LOL).
has Rafa, according to you, ever even lost a (clay) match when "healthy"?

so, be honest, the answer is "never ever ever ever, no matter what", isn't it?

dodo
01-31-2010, 05:54 PM
cheating ? gamesmanship ? Back it up please :rolleyes:

Roger had to pee. The real GOAT and #1 can rise above puny human metabolical issues.

king_roger
01-31-2010, 05:54 PM
Federer, even in the eyes of someone like myself who feels he's a bullying ego maniac, cannot deny: Federer is BY FAR the best player of all time...achievement-wise. When ranking the top players of all time, there are many factors and things to consider, but after all is said and done: Federer is #1. Case closed.

What would satisfy me would be humility and not resorting to gamesmanship and cheating toward the end of his amazing career.

And by cheating i suppose you mean that toilet break after 1st set against Davy?
Do i need to remind you that Davy actually broke Federer immediately after that? And that he almost broke him again at 3-1???

By the way, i suppose you don't think of Rafa's time between points as cheating , or breaking the rules, right?

Fed=ATPTourkilla
01-31-2010, 05:54 PM
Get a positive H2H against nadal and I will be satisfied.

Most of the matches have been on clay and nobody is going to end up with a positive clay H2H against Nadal. Outside clay it's about even. Plus I think all the clay defeats have led to mental issues against Nadal and choking in other matches.

Although I won't take anything away from Nadal, he did show an astonishing level of play in summer 2008 and his form at Wimbledon 2008 was sensationally good. However, lots of players have had purple patches where they beat everyone. I remember one period when Donut Dave Nalbandian was blowing everyone away and Federer has had several such periods. The test of greatness is whether you can keep it up.

abraxas21
01-31-2010, 06:00 PM
Federer is the GOAT. However, what would serve as a crown to the cake would be beating Rafael Nadal in the RG final... That would be just awesome... but unlikely, tbh.

prafull
01-31-2010, 06:00 PM
Most of the matches have been on clay and nobody is going to end up with a positive clay H2H against Nadal. Outside clay it's about even. Plus I think all the clay defeats have led to mental issues against Nadal and choking in other matches.

Although I won't take anything away from Nadal, he did show an astonishing level of play in summer 2008 and his form at Wimbledon 2008 was sensationally good. However, lots of players have had purple patches where they beat everyone. I remember one period when Donut Dave Nalbandian was blowing everyone away and Federer has had several such periods. The test of greatness is whether you can keep it up.

So what? Clay is a tennis playing surface. Why you are considering it as an alien thing?

abraxas21
01-31-2010, 06:03 PM
So what? Clay is a tennis playing surface. Why you are considering it as an alien thing?

I think what he meant was that Nadal is probably the GOAT on clay. I'm sure every tennis fan, even the fans of federer, would agree that Nadal is better on clay than everyone else on tour right now, including Federer. Thus, to expect Federer to have a winning record on clay against Nadal is pretty much absurd. Plus, Nadal is possibly the worst match up for Federer, a lot more than to other players who aren't as good as Federer at least.

prafull
01-31-2010, 06:05 PM
I think what he meant was that Nadal is probably the GOAT on clay. I'm sure every tennis fan, even the fans of federer, would agree that Nadal is better on clay than everyone else on tour right now, including Federer. Thus, to expect Federer to have a winning record on clay against Nadal is pretty much absurd. Plus, Nadal is possibly the worst match up for Federer, a lot more than to other players who aren't as good as Federer at least.


So in short you mean, Federer is the best player ever but Nadal is better than him?

Rafa = Fed Killa
01-31-2010, 06:06 PM
So in short you mean, Federer is the best player ever but Nadal is better than him?

Every sane person knows prime Nadal > prime Federer

which is why Fed can not be considered GOAT.

2008 RG finals proved how bad a player Federer really is.

sawan66278
01-31-2010, 06:06 PM
Most of the matches have been on clay and nobody is going to end up with a positive clay H2H against Nadal. Outside clay it's about even. Plus I think all the clay defeats have led to mental issues against Nadal and choking in other matches.

Although I won't take anything away from Nadal, he did show an astonishing level of play in summer 2008 and his form at Wimbledon 2008 was sensationally good. However, lots of players have had purple patches where they beat everyone. I remember one period when Donut Dave Nalbandian was blowing everyone away and Federer has had several such periods. The test of greatness is whether you can keep it up.

NO ONE in the last 20 years of the sport other than Federer put on a display like Rafa did in 2008...where he went on a streak of more than 30 odd matches on THREE SURFACES...winning two slams...and, after a minor blip, ended in Olympic gold. So to compare Rafa to Fat Dave? Ridiculous.

So what? Clay is a tennis playing surface. Why you are considering it as an alien thing?

I know...clay is the second most played on surface in the world.

Let's not forget: in slam competition, Rafa is 6-2 against Fed.

abraxas21
01-31-2010, 06:06 PM
So in short you mean, Federer is the best player ever but Nadal is better than him?

Nadal is better than Federer on clay but Federer is a better player overall. Simple as that.

TheTennisFanatic
01-31-2010, 06:07 PM
So what? Clay is a tennis playing surface. Why you are considering it as an alien thing?

he means no one is saying that roger is better on clay and it's ok to have a loosing head-to-head with the greatest clay court player of your generation (all time?) when you've played most of your matches on clay.

Fed=ATPTourkilla
01-31-2010, 06:14 PM
So what? Clay is a tennis playing surface. Why you are considering it as an alien thing?

Because you are setting the bar higher for Federer than for anyone else. If Federer needs to dominate Nadal on clay to be the GOAT then he has already failed. Federer v Nadal on clay has already been played out over a number of years, and Nadal has won easily.

But if that's the threshold you need to meet to be the GOAT, then nobody else is the GOAT either. Sampras didn't even get to the RG final. He wouldn't have had a hope against a clay court monster like prime Nadal, who runs down every lost cause for five hours and hits crosscourt lefty forehands 1 metre over the net with wrist-breaking amounts of topspin.

You are setting the bar impossibly high for Fed. You don't need to be a perfect player who wins every match to be the GOAT - it's a question of whether your achievements top everyone else's. And Fed's do.

prafull
01-31-2010, 06:20 PM
Because you are setting the bar higher for Federer than for anyone else. If Federer needs to dominate Nadal on clay to be the GOAT then he has already failed. Federer v Nadal on clay has already been played out over a number of years, and Nadal has won easily.

But if that's the threshold you need to meet to be the GOAT, then nobody else is the GOAT either. Sampras didn't even get to the RG final. He wouldn't have had a hope against a clay court monster like prime Nadal, who runs down every lost cause for five hours and hits crosscourt lefty forehands 1 metre over the net with wrist-breaking amounts of topspin.

You are setting the bar impossibly high for Fed. You don't need to be a perfect player who wins every match to be the GOAT - it's a question of whether your achievements top everyone else's. And Fed's do.

I was talking about positive H2H overall not only on clay. Federer was well behind Hewitt and Nalbandian but turned the H2H around. I think he was even 2-6 against Murray (which is 5-6 now and Federer will definitely make it positive this year).If he can do it against others why can't against Nadal? With Nadal going down in rankings he will get even more opportunities to play against him (coz they will meet in earlier rounds).

Fed=ATPTourkilla
01-31-2010, 06:25 PM
I suppose there is one unresolved issue - for Fed and Nadal to play one last match at Wimbledon. That would be interesting.

I don't agree that Fed has to beat Nadal at RG (although it would be nice if he did). Fed v Nadal at RG has been resolved already and Nadal has won. Federer cannot beat him if he is 100%.

As for hard courts, Nadal has failed to match Fed in that department. He has been able to take wins from Fed due to matchup and choking issues but has been repeatedly schooled by eg Djokovic.

If clay and not hard were the dominant ATP surface, Nadal and not Fed would have been no 1 for the last five years. But the rules are what they are. ;)

king_roger
01-31-2010, 06:29 PM
Every INsane person knows prime Nadal > prime Federer

which is why Fed can not be considered GOAT.

2008 RG finals proved how bad a player Federer really is.

Corrected.

Allez
01-31-2010, 06:48 PM
Cheating? How about his admission that he took a bathroom break for no real reason other than to break Davydenko's rhythm in the AO QF. As for gamesmanship, how about his barrage in the press about the pressure on Murray. WAY below his alleged status as the "king".

As for other players, if everyone decided to leap off the highest cliff, an insanely stupid act, does that justify my or someone else doing that too?

Uhm...OK I thought you were being serious with your accusations. Silly me :rolleyes:

Mosquito3
01-31-2010, 06:52 PM
Every sane person knows prime Nadal > prime Federer

which is why Fed can not be considered GOAT.

2008 RG finals proved how bad a player Federer really is.

Correction
Best FEDERER (2006) is far better than the best nadal (2008)
No questions

brithater
01-31-2010, 06:59 PM
Most forms of hatred can never be satisfied. Its like greed. It grows.

magnoliaewan
01-31-2010, 07:04 PM
I would love to see Nadal back healthy for the FO and Fed beat him in the final. That might finally shut the Fedbashers up, once and for all.

No it won't. If Nadal loses to Federer, he will be "injured" again.

Mosquito3
01-31-2010, 07:09 PM
No it won't. If Nadal loses to Federer, he will be "injured" again.
:haha: .... that's exactly the way of thinking of rafa fans

Federer&Hingis
01-31-2010, 07:10 PM
Not necessary to satisfy these stupid haters.

Just relax and enjoy watching their pain while they watch Fed collect more and more Slams and their favs get worse and finally retire........

AnimalFriendly
01-31-2010, 07:32 PM
Every sane person knows prime Nadal > prime Federer

which is why Fed can not be considered GOAT.

2008 RG finals proved how bad a player Federer really is.

Then here's to the insane! A pity Nadal's "prime" has been so short-lived, isn't it? Will it return? Maybe, maybe not. I anxiously await the year when Nadal wins 3 slams. So far he's managed to win two in one year exactly once. Fed's done it, already, what, twice?

But please, enlighten us. Just who IS the GOAT in your opinion?

Whiznot
01-31-2010, 07:32 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/231562-top-ten-resons-to-dislike-roger-federer

The Federer haters should read this Bleacher Report article if they are in need of honing their hatred to a razor edge.

sawan66278
01-31-2010, 07:38 PM
Nadal is better than Federer on clay but Federer is a better player overall. Simple as that.

This is true.

I suppose there is one unresolved issue - for Fed and Nadal to play one last match at Wimbledon. That would be interesting.

I don't agree that Fed has to beat Nadal at RG (although it would be nice if he did). Fed v Nadal at RG has been resolved already and Nadal has won. Federer cannot beat him if he is 100%.

As for hard courts, Nadal has failed to match Fed in that department. He has been able to take wins from Fed due to matchup and choking issues but has been repeatedly schooled by eg Djokovic.

If clay and not hard were the dominant ATP surface, Nadal and not Fed would have been no 1 for the last five years. But the rules are what they are. ;)

Fair points. However, Federer did NOT lose the 2009 AO final because of matchup or choking issues: he was simply outplayed there. And, as for Novak, Rafa DID defeat him in the most important hard court match of their rivalry: the Olympic semi-finals.

Diprosalic
01-31-2010, 08:03 PM
he needs to build himself a time machine, travel back in time and beat every player that ever picked up a racket and tripple bagle them with a blindfold.

naaah.. they'll just say he was lucky.

dombrfc
01-31-2010, 08:14 PM
he needs to build himself a time machine, travel back in time and beat every player that ever picked up a racket and tripple bagle them with a blindfold.

naaah.. they'll just say he was lucky.

Best response. Because it's sadly true.

I think anybody who has anything like a tennis brain cannot allow themselves to hate Roger Federer as a tennis player.

Of course you may not consider him the GOAT, but some of the insulations that he's fluked all his success etc. is just ludicrous.

Matt01
02-01-2010, 05:40 PM
Every sane person knows prime Nadal > prime Federer

which is why Fed can not be considered GOAT.

2008 RG finals proved how bad a player Federer really is.


:bowdown:

Greenday
02-01-2010, 06:07 PM
The way that "SetSampras" guy is arguing in the other thread is almost hilarious...he is really hurt.....:)

You can only imagine the amount of pain that Fed Inflicted on him with his wins......:) :)

scarecrows
02-01-2010, 06:15 PM
sawan clinging to a bathroom break taken IN BETWEEN sets :lol:
making it look like it was an injury time out when Davydenko was serving for a set

Commander Data
02-01-2010, 06:30 PM
suicide might work.

Acer
02-01-2010, 06:32 PM
Every sane person knows prime Nadal > prime Federer

which is why Fed can not be considered GOAT.

2008 RG finals proved how bad a player Federer really is.

It's amazing how Nadal tards (who happen to be Federer haters) find that particular match a career defining moment for Nadal. It shows in fact how highly these people regard Federer.

superslam77
02-01-2010, 06:37 PM
Awesome post. That SetSampras guy is pathetic with his arguments in trying to belittle federer in another thread.

When a guy who is 28 looks like he hardly broke a sweat after 3 reasonably long sets in heavy conditions and the 222year old looks winded, one should know you are seeing a genius at work.

WHAT A LEGEND ROGER IS :yeah: :yeah:

:clap2:

abraxas21
02-01-2010, 06:39 PM
Not necessary to satisfy these stupid haters.

Just relax and enjoy watching their pain while they watch Fed collect more and more Slams and their favs get worse and finally retire........

Exactly.

The haters aren't here to be satisfied. They are here to be mocked and also to enterain us when Federer is resting after having won another GS :)

Quadruple Tree
02-01-2010, 06:57 PM
All his detractors have now is his head-to-head against Nadal and the 2008 Roland Garros final in particular. In their eyes, Federer would have been better to lose in the early rounds to guys like Blake, Gonzalez, Youzhny, and Ferrer than to make the finals and lose to Nadal. It's a shame that even in his worst year on tour since 2003 Federer was able to make the final on his worst surface yet Nadal could not match this feat from 2005-2007 and make even a semifinal at a hard court Slam in four attempts. One wonders how such a match would have turned out in 2006 or 2007. I wouldn't be surprised if Federer won them in straight sets considering how easily he dominated Nadal on a fast hard court at the TMC in both of those years.

AnimalFriendly
02-01-2010, 08:21 PM
All his detractors have now is his head-to-head against Nadal and the 2008 Roland Garros final in particular. In their eyes, Federer would have been better to lose in the early rounds to guys like Blake, Gonzalez, Youzhny, and Ferrer than to make the finals and lose to Nadal. It's a shame that even in his worst year on tour since 2003 Federer was able to make the final on his worst surface yet Nadal could not match this feat from 2005-2007 and make even a semifinal at a hard court Slam in four attempts. One wonders how such a match would have turned out in 2006 or 2007. I wouldn't be surprised if Federer won them in straight sets considering how easily he dominated Nadal on a fast hard court at the TMC in both of those years.

Excellent points....Fed's detractors always fail to grasp that his head to head record vs. Nadal illustrates how he's essentially penalized for having performed much better over the years at the French Open on his worst surface than Nadal has at the U.S Open on HIS worst surface.

BigJohn
02-01-2010, 09:20 PM
Every sane person knows prime Nadal > prime Federer

which is why Fed can not be considered GOAT.



That is complete BS. It is not a H2H competition.

Prime Federer: Made all GS finals 3 years, won 3 GS titles in one year 3 times.

Prime Nadal: 2 GS finals, 2 semis, 2 GS titles in one year ONCE. That is his best year.

Not bad for Nadal, but clearly not in the same league as Federer. It's not even close when you actually think about it seriously.

aulus
02-01-2010, 11:12 PM
That is complete BS. It is not a H2H competition.

Prime Federer: Made all GS finals 3 years, won 3 GS titles in one year 3 times.

Prime Nadal: 2 GS finals, 2 semis, 2 GS titles in one year ONCE. That is his best year.

Not bad for Nadal, but clearly not in the same league as Federer. It's not even close when you actually think about it seriously.

Federer's 06 vs Nadal's '08


win-loss (%)

Fed: 92-5 (95%)
Nadal: 82-11 (88%)


titles

Fed: 12
Nadal: 8


majors

Fed: 3 of 4; lost to Nadal in RG final
Nadal: 2 of 4; lost to Tsonga in AO SF; lost to Murray in USO SF


finals

Fed: 16 of 17 events
Nadal: 10 of 19 events


losses

Fed: Nadal 4 times, Murray

Nadal: Davydenko 2 times, Simon, Murray, Djokovic 2 times, Ferrero, Roddick, Seppi :o , Tsonga, Youzhny


% margin over #2 ranked player; margin in points

Fed: 87.24% ; 3900p
Nadal: 25.82% ; 1370p




Federer has had multiple years as good or better as Nadal's '08.

4 years at 88% of matches won. 5 years with 2 or more majors. 4 years with 8 or more titles. 4 years with less than 11 losses. 4 years with more than 10 finals. 3 years with more than 25.82% margin over #2 ranked player.



Nadal had better winning % and more titles in '05 (89% and 11 titles) than he had in '08, but that was in part b/c he played many smaller events (Bastad, Costa do Sauipe, Stuttgart, Buenos Aires, Auckland, Acapulco, Valencia). Nadal was clearly better in '08.

BigJohn
02-01-2010, 11:55 PM
Federer's 06 vs Nadal's '08


win-loss (%)

Fed: 92-5 (95%)
Nadal: 82-11 (88%)


titles

Fed: 12
Nadal: 8


majors

Fed: 3 of 4; lost to Nadal in RG final
Nadal: 2 of 4; lost to Tsonga in AO SF; lost to Murray in USO SF


finals

Fed: 16 of 17 events
Nadal: 10 of 19 events


losses

Fed: Nadal 4 times, Murray

Nadal: Davydenko 2 times, Simon, Murray, Djokovic 2 times, Ferrero, Roddick, Seppi :o , Tsonga, Youzhny


% margin over #2 ranked player; margin in points

Fed: 87.24% ; 3900p
Nadal: 25.82% ; 1370p




Federer has had multiple years as good or better as Nadal's '08.

4 years at 88% of matches won. 5 years with 2 or more majors. 4 years with 8 or more titles. 4 years with less than 11 losses. 4 years with more than 10 finals. 3 years with more than 25.82% margin over #2 ranked player.



Nadal had better winning % and more titles in '05 (89% and 11 titles) than he had in '08, but that was in part b/c he played many smaller events (Bastad, Costa do Sauipe, Stuttgart, Buenos Aires, Auckland, Acapulco, Valencia). Nadal was clearly better in '08.

Thank you very much.

Hewitt =Legend
02-02-2010, 12:01 AM
Federer, even in the eyes of someone like myself who feels he's a bullying ego maniac, cannot deny: Federer is BY FAR the best player of all time...achievement-wise. When ranking the top players of all time, there are many factors and things to consider, but after all is said and done: Federer is #1. Case closed.

What would satisfy me would be humility and not resorting to gamesmanship and cheating toward the end of his amazing career.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I respect everything he has achieved, I am just a "hater" of the way he carries himself. Also I would be interested to know how many of these Fed lovers follow tennis all year round, and not just when he is winning slams.

recessional
02-02-2010, 12:11 AM
What would satisfy the haters?

Absolutely nothing.

leng jai
02-02-2010, 01:09 AM
I would be satisfied if he changed to a double handed backhand and stopped beating Hasi.

Angle Queen
02-02-2010, 01:10 AM
I'm neither hater nor fan. And GOAT is highly, highly subjective.

But what I don't understand is how someone, a tennis fan in particular, could not acknowledge the brilliance of Roger's game...on all surfaces. And so what if he's got an ego; don't most successful people...athletes, politicians and business peoples of all types. It doesn't mean you can't respect their achievements. It may sound cliche but I believe him to be an ambassador of the game and in today's "celebrity" climate, those are few and far between.

:hatoff: to ya, Rogi.

Benny_Maths
02-02-2010, 03:29 AM
Being a man and beating his greatest rival (when healthy) in RG.

Being a man and not crying after his greatest rival beats him in a hardcourt GS final.

Being a man and being able to match his greatest rival (not having a bad head to head)

The only thing Federer's poor H2H record against Nadal says is that only a player who is a horrible matchup for him can do well whilst playing in his era. So you're effectively saying that dominant players from the past never really had much competition.

HarryMan
02-02-2010, 03:30 AM
I have been of his fan since 2001 so I can't comment on it from my personal point of view.

What I can say, from experience, with my friends and family (except my dad as he is huge federer fan himself), they enjoyed 2008 a lot more than 04, 06 or 07. At times I feel people would like to see athletes compete as mortals and let the best man win. I know it took Nadal (playing his best tennis) and Federer not being as great as he seems to be today for that to happen in 2008. However, enjoying just the competition and someone standing up and taking this great man down, was an epic story. I can vouch that most of my friends enjoyed that competition and wanted a response from Federer to see whether he has it in him. Now that Federer has again won 4 out of the last 6 slam titles, they are waiting for that competition to arrive (whether it is because of Fed not playing well or whether someone else increase his level of play is besides the point, the imp thing is just compete!).

I guess haters (who will hate for any reason can never be satisfied and each player in all sports will continue to have them) but the fact remains those of who, who would like competition, will always prefer Federer and the competition (which is Nadal now) against each other all the time to find out who the better player is. But sports doesn't work like that and Nadal needs to stand up to Federer just to get to him, and that hasn't been happening for quite some time.

I remember many who quoted Nadal and Murray (and Djokovic towards the beginning of that year) as Federer's biggest threats in 08. Now that Murray (and Djokovic) have been beaten by Fed consistently, they are now considered chokers who don't have what it takes, and quite so easily replaced by Del Potro (who is the man who is considered the next big threat with his performance at US 09). I just hope these people, who have such high hopes from this Argentian youngster, don't turn on him the moment Federer beats him (which will eventually happen).

lina_seta
02-02-2010, 04:04 AM
Federer's 06 vs Nadal's '08


win-loss (%)

Fed: 92-5 (95%)
Nadal: 82-11 (88%)


titles

Fed: 12
Nadal: 8


majors

Fed: 3 of 4; lost to Nadal in RG final
Nadal: 2 of 4; lost to Tsonga in AO SF; lost to Murray in USO SF


finals

Fed: 16 of 17 events
Nadal: 10 of 19 events


losses

Fed: Nadal 4 times, Murray

Nadal: Davydenko 2 times, Simon, Murray, Djokovic 2 times, Ferrero, Roddick, Seppi :o , Tsonga, Youzhny


% margin over #2 ranked player; margin in points

Fed: 87.24% ; 3900p
Nadal: 25.82% ; 1370p




Federer has had multiple years as good or better as Nadal's '08.

4 years at 88% of matches won. 5 years with 2 or more majors. 4 years with 8 or more titles. 4 years with less than 11 losses. 4 years with more than 10 finals. 3 years with more than 25.82% margin over #2 ranked player.



Nadal had better winning % and more titles in '05 (89% and 11 titles) than he had in '08, but that was in part b/c he played many smaller events (Bastad, Costa do Sauipe, Stuttgart, Buenos Aires, Auckland, Acapulco, Valencia). Nadal was clearly better in '08.


this roger guy is fcking ridiculous! :worship:
thanks for BIG perspective... its amazing how fast one can forget

wackykid
02-02-2010, 04:53 AM
nothing will EVER shut them up... tards are just tards...


regards,
wacky

prafull
02-02-2010, 06:38 AM
Federer's 06 vs Nadal's '08


win-loss (%)

Fed: 92-5 (95%)
Nadal: 82-11 (88%)


titles

Fed: 12
Nadal: 8


majors

Fed: 3 of 4; lost to Nadal in RG final
Nadal: 2 of 4; lost to Tsonga in AO SF; lost to Murray in USO SF


finals

Fed: 16 of 17 events
Nadal: 10 of 19 events


losses

Fed: Nadal 4 times, Murray

Nadal: Davydenko 2 times, Simon, Murray, Djokovic 2 times, Ferrero, Roddick, Seppi :o , Tsonga, Youzhny


% margin over #2 ranked player; margin in points

Fed: 87.24% ; 3900p
Nadal: 25.82% ; 1370p




Federer has had multiple years as good or better as Nadal's '08.

4 years at 88% of matches won. 5 years with 2 or more majors. 4 years with 8 or more titles. 4 years with less than 11 losses. 4 years with more than 10 finals. 3 years with more than 25.82% margin over #2 ranked player.



Nadal had better winning % and more titles in '05 (89% and 11 titles) than he had in '08, but that was in part b/c he played many smaller events (Bastad, Costa do Sauipe, Stuttgart, Buenos Aires, Auckland, Acapulco, Valencia). Nadal was clearly better in '08.

I am not sure about exact dates but better comparison would be Nadal's April-08 to April 09. He won something like 3 slams (+1 semi) + Olympic gold + Davis cup + 5 Masters + 3 other titles + 3 other finals during that period.

Acer
02-02-2010, 07:38 AM
Federer's 06 vs Nadal's '08


win-loss (%)

Fed: 92-5 (95%)
Nadal: 82-11 (88%)


titles

Fed: 12
Nadal: 8


majors

Fed: 3 of 4; lost to Nadal in RG final
Nadal: 2 of 4; lost to Tsonga in AO SF; lost to Murray in USO SF


finals

Fed: 16 of 17 events
Nadal: 10 of 19 events


losses

Fed: Nadal 4 times, Murray

Nadal: Davydenko 2 times, Simon, Murray, Djokovic 2 times, Ferrero, Roddick, Seppi :o , Tsonga, Youzhny


% margin over #2 ranked player; margin in points

Fed: 87.24% ; 3900p
Nadal: 25.82% ; 1370p




Federer has had multiple years as good or better as Nadal's '08.

4 years at 88% of matches won. 5 years with 2 or more majors. 4 years with 8 or more titles. 4 years with less than 11 losses. 4 years with more than 10 finals. 3 years with more than 25.82% margin over #2 ranked player.



Nadal had better winning % and more titles in '05 (89% and 11 titles) than he had in '08, but that was in part b/c he played many smaller events (Bastad, Costa do Sauipe, Stuttgart, Buenos Aires, Auckland, Acapulco, Valencia). Nadal was clearly better in '08.

KO!

Mimi
02-02-2010, 07:46 AM
That is complete BS. It is not a H2H competition.

Prime Federer: Made all GS finals 3 years, won 3 GS titles in one year 3 times.

Prime Nadal: 2 GS finals, 2 semis, 2 GS titles in one year ONCE. That is his best year.

Not bad for Nadal, but clearly not in the same league as Federer. It's not even close when you actually think about it seriously.

don't take his word seriously, he is joking, i don't think he hates roger that much, its just like RonE on nadal ;)

activatethesmile
02-02-2010, 08:15 AM
You know, many people have accused Federer fans as glory hunters. Some of them maybe are. But the true Glory Hunters are those that become 'allegedly' fan of Nadal just simply because the great man has a winning record against Federer.

They just can't rationalize how a person--Federer--is able to attain many incredible accomplishments, and they are envious because of it. And thus, when they find someone that managed to best Federer in many occasions, they cling to him, masking their hate towards Federer with their liking in Nadal. They are feeling all the glory when Nadal defeats Federer as if they are the one doing all the hard work themselves.

These people are the true losers. These people are the epitome of the word pathetic.

alal
02-02-2010, 04:51 PM
So what? Clay is a tennis playing surface. Why you are considering it as an alien thing?


On clay, Nadal is so good. But Federer is also good enough to go into later rounds to meet Nadal. While on other surfaces, Federer always go into later rounds, while Nadal will only get into that later rounds when he is in form and 100% fit. (Federer encountering a mono disease can still get into later rounds on clay and that is not fair to him to count on the H2H with Nadal)
So you are looking at the stat where in every match of that stat, Nadal is pretty much in form while Federer is sometimes in-form sometimes not (but still manage to get into later rounds). You can prove this by looking at how many times an in-form Federer progress only to see early exit by Nadal. Nadal cannot go into later rounds at slam if he is not in-form.
Apart from all above, you dont need to dominate everyone to be considered the best of all time. Nadal cannot dominate players Federer can. It is a matter of style of play. If you are a sports fan, you should understand this. It happens in every sport.

No offense to Nadal fans. Nadal is a great player in tennis history. And the incident of him only proves that this is not a weak era. On clay, Sampras will never get a game from Nadal. Deal with it!

magnoliaewan
02-02-2010, 08:58 PM
You know, many people have accused Federer fans as glory hunters. Some of them maybe are. But the true Glory Hunters are those that become 'allegedly' fan of Nadal just simply because the great man has a winning record against Federer.

They just can't rationalize how a person--Federer--is able to attain many incredible accomplishments, and they are envious because of it. And thus, when they find someone that managed to best Federer in many occasions, they cling to him, masking their hate towards Federer with their liking in Nadal. They are feeling all the glory when Nadal defeats Federer as if they are the one doing all the hard work themselves.

These people are the true losers. These people are the epitome of the word pathetic.

I agree x 100000

aulus
02-02-2010, 10:21 PM
I am not sure about exact dates but better comparison would be Nadal's April-08 to April 09. He won something like 3 slams (+1 semi) + Olympic gold + Davis cup + 5 Masters + 3 other titles + 3 other finals during that period.

good point. a year is sort of arbitrary.


in that period you mentioned, Nadal was i think 100-7 (counting DC).

7 losses: Murray 2 times, Davydenko, Simon, Monfils, Del Potro and Ferrero.

i think Nadal made 14 finals of 21 events, winning 13.

Tommy_Vercetti
02-02-2010, 10:39 PM
I'm not a hater. He is the GOAT. And Federer only has a small number of gaps in his career and it's too bad he didn't fill them because he had the chances.

In no particular order:

- Davis Cup 2003 (He choked in the SF and Switzerland would have gotten to play at home in the final against Spain for their first Davis Cup)
- French Open 2004 (That loss to Guga cost him the calendar Grand Slam. And as a side effect, tennis got another joke of a GS champion)
- Olympics 2004 (Loss to Birdshit in the Olympics when the eventual champion is Massu of all people? Blech. That gold medal should have been his.)
- Those two losses in 2004 stopped what should have been the first "Golden" Slam. Federer had the opportunity to do it and save us from two clowns getting the big titles.
- Canas breaking his win streak. Victory for all the Argentine dopers.
- I'd like to see him win at least one title in South America and Africa.

General Suburbia
02-02-2010, 11:04 PM
What would satisfy the hater?

It's simple: KILL THE BATMAN

But really, haters will be haters. If you're that concerned about what other people think about SOMEONE ELSE (not even yourself!), then you should get your priorities examined.

BigJohn
02-02-2010, 11:16 PM
I am not sure about exact dates but better comparison would be Nadal's April-08 to April 09. He won something like 3 slams (+1 semi) + Olympic gold + Davis cup + 5 Masters + 3 other titles + 3 other finals during that period.

Like saying that Rafter was the year end #1 ranked player in the world... if the year ended on 26.07.1999.

Sure Nadal dominated the tour for 12 months. Federer has done that a few times the old fashion way, a calendar year. And he has 2 better GS yearly stats.