Is Nadal's "big" career over ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Is Nadal's "big" career over ?

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madmax
10-10-2009, 09:17 AM
With a new generation of tall aggresive baseliners coming up and blowing spaniard off the court left and rigt, is it the end of the road for Nadal? He is no longer capable of intimidating opponents on the court and all the confident ballstrikers are destroying him on their good day...discuss

8pNADAL
10-10-2009, 09:18 AM
tsonga did the same to him a year before he won the aus open actually....

Cloudygirl
10-10-2009, 09:19 AM
on their good day.

He is having a bad year and has still won a slam on hard, and reached the semis in the other one. I imagine he won't be losing much on clay. I certainly wouldn't write him off. One loss to Soderling on clay doesn't mean he will never win another clay slam.

rubbERR
10-10-2009, 09:20 AM
on their good day.

He is having a bad year and has still won a slam on hard, and reached the semis in the other one. I imagine he won't be losing much on clay. I certainly wouldn't write him off. One loss to Soderling on clay doesn't mean he will never win another clay slam.

bad year... :haha:

Sunset of Age
10-10-2009, 09:21 AM
Knee-jerk thread.

I well remember some other player being completely written off last year, and guess what happened? ;)

8pNADAL
10-10-2009, 09:22 AM
nadal and murray have 5 titles each this year, federer 4, yeah nadal had a bad year....

madmax
10-10-2009, 09:25 AM
tsonga did the same to him a year before he won the aus open actually....

well, to be fair Tsonga win was more of a fluke result back then - but all the recent results and tendencies are not looking good for your beloved clay court king...

8pNADAL
10-10-2009, 09:26 AM
all the results? i think us open semi is an incredibly good result while having a major muscle strain, i didn't even expect him to reach the 3rd round with an injury like that... so where is your logic?

Goldenoldie
10-10-2009, 09:26 AM
One loss to Soderling at RG is hardly the end of the world. No reason why he shouldn't win several more French titles, and still in with a shout for the others

Vaccine
10-10-2009, 09:27 AM
Yes, he is done. I'm wondering how he manage to find the strength to grab a raquet right now.


Come on, you can't be serious really. How can you write him off so quickly? He's still trying to find his best form with the old rythm and he lacks confidence as well but it's not such a big deal he can't overcome.

8pNADAL
10-10-2009, 09:28 AM
he will still finish number one in the world if he wins the next 3 events, and he already has the equal most titles on tour this year

Byrd
10-10-2009, 09:29 AM
He passed his peak a long time ago, that's if you acknowledge such a thing...

madmax
10-10-2009, 09:31 AM
all the results? i think us open semi is an incredibly good result while having a major muscle strain, i didn't even expect him to reach the 3rd round with an injury like that... so where is your logic?

well, to be fair he wouldn't even reach that US semifinal if the players he encountered wouldn't bend over for him as usual - all it takes these days is confident ballstriking to put Nadal away, and clay nowadays is not so different from hard if you noticed - actually Roland Garros courts this year were pretty fast, notably the center court one.

FedFan
10-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Nadal has done incredibly well considering the way he plays.

It must be physically and mentally very tough, if you have to fight for almost every point, because you hardly win easy points.

He is still the favourite in RG and a serious contender for Wimbledon, but it will not become easier for him to win Majors.

alter ego
10-10-2009, 09:50 AM
Too early to tell, but you have to take into account that Djokovic, Murray, Del Potro, Cilic are younger than him.

KolyaLegend
10-10-2009, 09:57 AM
Yeah, he should retire tomorrow.

Pointless thread.

Action Jackson
10-10-2009, 10:07 AM
Original thread.

He is gone, he isn't prime beef anymore, it's just offal.

goatian
10-10-2009, 10:12 AM
He is at his peak regarding injuries.

Certinfy
10-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Only time will tell.

Start da Game
10-10-2009, 10:23 AM
With a new generation of tall aggresive baseliners coming up and blowing spaniard off the court left and rigt, is it the end of the road for Nadal? He is no longer capable of intimidating opponents on the court and all the confident ballstrikers are destroying him on their good day...discuss

i can understand your enthusiasm but remember that rafa takes his time.......he is not naturally that talented and needs to play these ball bashers a little more before getting used to these type of players and asserting his authority........blake, youzhny, tsonga they all got their whoppings once he figured them out.......also the fact that he is not yet fully recovered from insane number of injuries doesn't help the matters either.......

he is THE ONE who came like lightening and stopped federer cold in his shorts in 2006.......he is THE ONE who arrested djokovic's momentum at once in the middle of 2008 and made him a mental patient.......he is THE ONE who pushed murray aside and stole a hardcourt slam right before him........

not federer, not murray, not djokovic, not anyone else........it will once again come down to rafa to halt these ball bashers who are giving headaches to all the top players........wait for 2010........

bottomline: he will continue to annoy you by winning loads of slams in the next few years.......

madmax
10-10-2009, 10:32 AM
i can understand your enthusiasm but remember that rafa takes his time.......he is not naturally that talented and needs to play these ball bashers a little more before getting used to these type of players and asserting his authority........blake, youzhny, tsonga they all got their whoppings once he figured them out.......also the fact that he is not yet fully recovered from insane number of injuries doesn't help the matters either.......

he is THE ONE who came like lightening and stopped federer cold in his shorts in 2006.......he is THE ONE who arrested djokovic's momentum at once in the middle of 2008 and made him a mental patient.......he is THE ONE who pushed murray aside and stole a hardcourt slam right before him........

not federer, not murray, not djokovic, not anyone else........it will once again come down to rafa to halt these ball bashers who are giving headaches to all the top players........wait for 2010........

bottomline: he will continue to annoy you by winning loads of slams in the next few years.......

so tell me, without all the epic praising of his abilities, how is he gonna stop these your so called "ballbashers" in their shoes, if he doesn't have the ability to do that? By shouting Vamos everytime they make an UE or what? You need to understand that the game of tennis always evolves and new powerful players are emerging al the time...basically Rafa will be at their mercy anytime he plays them off the clay - only a bad day from them or countless UE's can propel him past these guys.

Dini
10-10-2009, 10:33 AM
This reminds me of the WTAW thread but with Dementieva as the subject. :lol:

Having said that, it's a silly knee jerk reaction. He still has 4-5 Slams in him in my opinion. You're all so quick to write off people you should never write off: Federer and Nadal. Last year Federer "was never going to win a grandslam again" and since then he's won 3. So go figure.

Action Jackson
10-10-2009, 10:38 AM
This reminds me of the WTAW thread but with Dementieva as the subject. :lol:

Having said that, it's a silly knee jerk reaction. He still has 4-5 Slams in him in my opinion. You're all so quick to write off people you should never write off: Federer and Nadal. Last year Federer "was never going to win a grandslam again" and since then he's won 3. So go figure.

There are no knee jerk reactions on MTF.

thrust
10-10-2009, 10:48 AM
I Hope Not, But Something Is Definitely Wrong With His Game Now.

paseo
10-10-2009, 10:49 AM
With a new generation of tall aggresive baseliners coming up and blowing spaniard off the court left and rigt, is it the end of the road for Nadal? He is no longer capable of intimidating opponents on the court and all the confident ballstrikers are destroying him on their good day...discuss

Yes, there are a lot of them. Like Del potro, Cilic,...and ... ehh.. that's just about it.

Art&Soul
10-10-2009, 11:21 AM
Yes, the new generation will tear him out and that's good for tennis ;)

delpiero7
10-10-2009, 11:26 AM
I know it was months ago, but had Nadal not lost to Soderling at RG then this thread wouldn't be here.

Up to that point he'd won the Aus Open, IW, MC, Rome and Barca, as well as reaching the final of Rotterslam and Madrid.

His last 3 results have been SF at Cinci, SF at US Open and SF in Beijing. Not too terrible IMO.

Finally, other than the loss to Soderling (who was ranked 25 at the time), the lowest ranked player he has lost to this year is no. 15 Cilic.

anon57
10-10-2009, 11:58 AM
I know it was months ago, but had Nadal not lost to Soderling at RG then this thread wouldn't be here.

Up to that point he'd won the Aus Open, IW, MC, Rome and Barca, as well as reaching the final of Rotterslam and Madrid.

His last 3 results have been SF at Cinci, SF at US Open and SF in Beijing. Not too terrible IMO.

Finally, other than the loss to Soderling (who was ranked 25 at the time), the lowest ranked player he has lost to this year is no. 15 Cilic.:secret:Rational thinking is not allowed, it gets in the way of knee jerk reactions:p

Riffrizzle
10-10-2009, 12:21 PM
Is the OP serious? Seriously I cannot tell if half the threads in this forum are sarcastic because the conclusions drawn are remarkable. I don't barrack for Nadal but the guy has won 5 titles this year, including the Australian Open, and reached the semi finals of the US Open, and suddenly he's written off forever because of his loss to Cilic?

Dini
10-10-2009, 12:24 PM
Rafa should retire for his fans.

leng jai
10-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Is the OP serious? Seriously I cannot tell if half the threads in this forum are sarcastic because the conclusions drawn are remarkable. I don't barrack for Nadal but the guy has won 5 titles this year, including the Australian Open, and reached the semi finals of the US Open, and suddenly he's written off forever because of his loss to Cilic?

MTF doesn't understand irony.

Burrow
10-10-2009, 12:32 PM
Rafa should retire for his fans.

Imagine if he actually did. There would be so many pissed off bandwagoners/glory hunters on here.

I would love it.

born_on_clay
10-10-2009, 12:58 PM
tsonga did the same to him a year before he won the aus open actually....

Agreed in 100%

He passed his peak but he WILL win another few Grand slam titles

Rafa = Fed Killa
10-10-2009, 06:06 PM
Knee-jerk thread.

I well remember some other player being completely written off last year, and guess what happened? ;)

What happened was a couple of lucky GS wins while Nadal was injured by beating his slave Soderclown and his bitch Roddick

GlennMirnyi
10-10-2009, 06:11 PM
It's pretty clear, but the level of the tour right now is so weak he might still win a big title or two the next few years.

Sapeod
10-10-2009, 06:13 PM
Imagine if he actually did. There would be so many pissed off bandwagoners/glory hunters on here.

I would love it.
I would love it as well.

Lalalovesong
10-10-2009, 06:40 PM
Things change fast, these days.

swisht4u
10-10-2009, 06:46 PM
Don't worry about Rafa.
It wasn't long ago he didn't win anything for 8 months, nothing.
His game takes awhile, longer than anyone to fine tune.

born_on_clay
10-10-2009, 06:54 PM
Don't worry about Rafa.
It wasn't long ago he didn't win anything for 8 months, nothing.
His game takes awhile, longer than anyone to fine tune.

True
Next

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
10-10-2009, 07:05 PM
i love all the talk about "knee-jerk" reactions

forgive the play on words but

if Nadal hasn't been a jerk on his knees then he wouldn't have missed wimbledon

and people wouldn't be wondering if he'd ever get his form back

Sunset of Age
10-11-2009, 02:38 AM
What happened was a couple of lucky GS wins while Nadal was injured by beating his slave Soderclown and his bitch Roddick

Yeah sure, buddy. :hug:
You know how it is? If you are so silly to overplay by playing endless MM tournaments and stuff, and end up being injured, thus not being able to defend your titles/points in GS tournaments which REALLY matter, some other player may well run away with those titles.
Too bad for you that it happened to be FedClown who happened to manage his schedule just a little more appropriate and got just *that* job done. :rolleyes:

Eventually every player who manages to win 7 matches in a row during a GS tournament deservedly ends up being the winner. That fully includes Djokovic, Nadal, and Del Potro just the same btw.

'Spartan' or no. :ras: :p

Johnny Groove
10-11-2009, 03:15 AM
Nadal is such a beast this time of year, he's usually winning titles left and right :rolleyes:

Since he's not, he must be finished.

sawan66278
10-11-2009, 03:21 AM
Rafa is having trouble...and will never win another slam on hard courts IF he does not work on his serve. He must increase the pace, or, he will continue to be destroyed by these giants (on hard court that is). On clay? He will still be the overwhelming favorite to win every tourney for at least the next three years. On grass? He will be a legit contender for at least the same length of time. Hard courts? Um...see serve comments.

If he leads Spain to the Cup this year, watch out in 2010. Just the confidence boost he will need.

kobulingam
10-11-2009, 03:41 AM
if/when Rafa decides to reinflate again, he will be tough to beat.... since 2006 I noticed how rafa timed his inflation cycle to peak around rg/wimb, ... this year he tried to get a peak in for ao thinking he coudl win rg without inflation... he thought this yera he could do a peak during ao, deflate around rg/wimb, and reinflate for uso.. thus winning three slams.. ao/rg/uso... things didnt work out right... he will reinflate at some point and then will be tought to beat

Sunset of Age
10-11-2009, 03:44 AM
if/when Rafa decides to reinflate again, he will be tough to beat.... since 2006 I noticed how rafa timed his inflation cycle to peak around rg/wimb, ... this year he tried to get a peak in for ao thinking he coudl win rg without inflation... he thought this yera he could do a peak during ao, deflate around rg/wimb, and reinflate for uso.. thus winning three slams.. ao/rg/uso... things didnt work out right... he will reinflate at some point and then will be tought to beat

Somehow, when I read your posts containing the words 'reinflate' & 'inflation' so often, in combination with your avvy - :o, I just can't help but feel a mite :o :o :o.
No offense, it's just me. :p

8pNADAL
10-11-2009, 05:11 AM
nadal won aus open, indian wells, career high us open result, easily 2009 is his best hardcourt year ever

littleash
10-11-2009, 05:59 AM
i think hes finished. i expect that giant player (who won USO this year) will win FO next year. :awww:

juan77
10-11-2009, 04:54 PM
I think it is too early to ask this question. I doubt if he will be able to defend his AO title next year, but Roland Garros is Rafa's stronghold in spite of this year's loss. if he losses there next year also, then it will be a big hit to his confidence and overall game. If he wins RG, he will take that confidence into Wimbledon and might end up winning it again. Overall, he remains a strong contender at RG and Wimbledon for the next few years.

Snowwy
10-11-2009, 05:39 PM
if/when Rafa decides to reinflate again, he will be tough to beat.... since 2006 I noticed how rafa timed his inflation cycle to peak around rg/wimb, ... this year he tried to get a peak in for ao thinking he coudl win rg without inflation... he thought this yera he could do a peak during ao, deflate around rg/wimb, and reinflate for uso.. thus winning three slams.. ao/rg/uso... things didnt work out right... he will reinflate at some point and then will be tought to beat

Are you suggesting he is on steroids? That's all I get from this post.

phelbyn
10-11-2009, 06:59 PM
he will still finish number one in the world if he wins the next 3 events, and he already has the equal most titles on tour this year

I'm sorry, but talks of him finishing number one need to be put aside for now. He's recovering from injury. If Federer doesn't play another tournament for the rest of the year, AND Nadal wins the next three, then there is a chance. But let's be realistic my friend, Nadal has a LONG way to go.

ChampionshipPoints
10-11-2009, 10:47 PM
well, to be fair Tsonga win was more of a fluke result back then - but all the recent results and tendencies are not looking good for your beloved clay court king...

I am fed up with peolple saying that the AO win over Nadal was a fluke!:mad:
How can it be a fluke when since then, he went on to win 5 titles, including a Masters event; and he beat Fed and Nole twice (were both of those wins flukes too?). Give me a break!

NYMIKE
10-11-2009, 10:53 PM
It's hard to write off a player of this caliber based on one loss, yes he lost to del Potro, but that was at a semi of a major which is an excellent performance for any player not named Roger or Nadal. He still be odds on favorite to win French at the very least. A year ago people were writing off Roger and he added 2 trophies to his majors collection.

luie
10-11-2009, 11:09 PM
Talentless grinding moonballers generally have short shelf lives.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
10-11-2009, 11:50 PM
Talentless grinding moonballers generally have short shelf lives.

borg proves that for sure

paseo
10-12-2009, 01:49 AM
I'll say this again, Nadal will still dominate the clay court events. And that includes a GS, The FO.

Clay Death
10-12-2009, 02:03 AM
Talentless grinding moonballers generally have short shelf lives.


"talentless grinding moonballers" dont win 36 titles that include 6 slams on all surfaces and 15 masters shields on all surfaces by age 22.

they also dont get to have winning records against the greatest tennis players on the planet. now beat it. go learn a few things about the sport. his injuries is the reason why he is in a bind now. what the hell is your excuse for knowing absolutely nothing about the sport?

just name one player in the entire history of the sport who has achieved that by age 22? just give me one name of a player who has 36 titles that include 6 slams on all surfaces and 15 masters shields on all surfaces. i need just one name. now.

and while you are at it, i need a complete list of "top" players who have a winning record against him.

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/v_strelok080100018.jpg

8pNADAL
10-12-2009, 02:05 AM
I'm sorry, but talks of him finishing number one need to be put aside for now. He's recovering from injury. If Federer doesn't play another tournament for the rest of the year, AND Nadal wins the next three, then there is a chance. But let's be realistic my friend, Nadal has a LONG way to go.

see my sig, nadal can get number1 before london

evil23
10-12-2009, 02:05 AM
rafa wont win another slam....too much eating coke

paseo
10-12-2009, 02:12 AM
"talentless grinding moonballers" dont win 36 titles that include 6 slams on all surfaces and 15 masters shields on all surfaces by age 22.

they also dont get to own the greatest tennis players on the planet. now beat it. go learn a few things about the sport. his injures is the reason why he is in a bind now. what the hell is your excuse for knowing absolutely nothing about the sport?

just name one player in the entire history of the sport who has achieved that by age 22? just give me one name of a player who has 36 titles that include 6 slams on all surfaces and 15 masters shields on all surfaces. i need just one name. now.

and while you are at it, i need a complete list of "top" players who have a winning record against him.

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/v_strelok080100018.jpg

Well, a certain Die-Hard Nadal Fan insisted that Nadal has little talent, and that he won his matches mostly with fighting spirit rather than talent.

Clay Death
10-12-2009, 02:33 AM
Well, a certain Die-Hard Nadal Fan insisted that Nadal has little talent, and that he won his matches mostly with fighting spirit rather than talent.


he works with the following limitations but that does not mean that he has "little talent":

1. he serves with the wrong hand and his serve is weak but its effective enough for him to be able to win on clay and grass. its much harder for him to win on hard courts but if he is healthy enough and fit enough, he still manages to get his share of hard court wins. not too shabbby considering its his worst surface. in any case, the guy does not have a dominating serve.

2. his slice is weak

3. his forcourt game is questionable and he is not very comfortable at the net.

4. he does not have enough time--given his heavy topspin strokes--to return effectively on hard courts on the average.

5. he has been injured off and on since he was 17.

that is a lot of limitations so how does he win so much. must be that he has some talent somewhere. here is a list of his significant competencies that he brings to the battlefield:

1. his speed and his movement. its a little diminished now since he has done a good job of fucking up his knees but clearly he is a tremendous athlete. any idiot ought to be able to see that instantly.

2. his topspin. his heavy topspin off both wings allows him to enjoy sky high margins. players say that when he is healthy, fit, and on, he hardly ever misses off either win in the clutch. djokovic, gasquet, and murray are on record for saying that. they say the guy just doesnt miss when he is on.

3. his topspin forehand. its heavy and the 3200 or so rpm`s he can put on the ball off that wing on the average has never before seen in the sport. nobody alive can touch his racquet head speed and acceleration. that is a a gift from god. he has taken those rpm`s as high as 4700 and beyond in good times.

so effective is his forehand that he can dismatle your entire game with it. he can bury you in a corner and open up the court like no other player in history. that cannot happen if he did not have a bullet proof forehand. and in good times, he hardly ever fails to deliver with his forehand.

4. mental toughness. he has the highest winning percentage of any player ever in the open era in the finals. that is when it really counts. that is the ultimate test of mental toughness. muster is second. davydenko is up there as well but he does not count since he has not played in enough finals. the sample size is too small for him.

5. relentless will. in the face of limited game and in the face of all adversity--as in being injured all the time--he has still achieved something by age 22 that nobody in the history of the sport was able to.

if you love sports and if that is not something worth telling your kids or your friends then i dont know what is.

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/v_strelok080100018.jpg

Macbrother
10-12-2009, 03:02 AM
His biggest limitation (along with the serve) is unquestionably his lack of variety. His topspin forehand is definitely vicious, the most consistant and potent of its type, but that's all it is. If a big hitter with a flat, consistant backhand comes along who's not bothered by it, what's Nadal's plan B?

He'll always have the game to go deep in any slam on any surface, but by that same token he'll always be vulnerable to certain types of players. I certainly wouldn't write him off anytime soon, next years AO and FO will be very interesting tourneys since we have "unusual" defending champs. After that we'll have a much clearer picture on where everyone stands.

Bad Religion
10-12-2009, 04:57 AM
In my opinion Nadal is done

Week after week he is losing to a new clown (Del Puta , Cilic , Soderling ... )

If those losses against giant mugs are not a signal , then I don´t know what is a signal

Riffrizzle
10-12-2009, 06:30 AM
Bad Religion you are the worst poster.

phelbyn
10-13-2009, 05:35 PM
see my sig, nadal can get number1 before london

CAN get number 1. If Federer does nothing and Nadal finds top form in the next couple hours... and maintains it for the rest of the season.

Don't get me wrong, he's a great player... and I can't hide my bias that I prefer Federer. Realistically.... by not winning Beijing, and still not being 100%, and more than likely NOT winning Shanghai, Nadal will... MORE THAN LIKELY... finish the season #2.

phelbyn
10-13-2009, 05:37 PM
His biggest limitation (along with the serve) is unquestionably his lack of variety. His topspin forehand is definitely vicious, the most consistant and potent of its type, but that's all it is. If a big hitter with a flat, consistant backhand comes along who's not bothered by it, what's Nadal's plan B?

He'll always have the game to go deep in any slam on any surface, but by that same token he'll always be vulnerable to certain types of players. I certainly wouldn't write him off anytime soon, next years AO and FO will be very interesting tourneys since we have "unusual" defending champs. After that we'll have a much clearer picture on where everyone stands.

That and his body is already giving way to his style of play. If he is going to keep up his surge in tennis, he needs to adapt his game so it doesn't destroy his body. Honestly: the poor guy's career could be over in the next couple years.

oz_boz
10-14-2009, 08:17 AM
I think he has passed his peak, but he will win at least another GS.

mystic ice cube
10-14-2009, 10:45 AM
I think Rafa has another couple of grand slams in him, but my opinions on him being past his peak have already been said. Nadal has to find a way to beat the likes of Delpo, Cilic, Soderling etc. if he is continue playing at the top. Federer & Djokovic are probably the only real pure big hit killers in the game.

phelbyn
10-14-2009, 01:21 PM
I think Rafa has another couple of grand slams in him, but my opinions on him being past his peak have already been said. Nadal has to find a way to beat the likes of Delpo, Cilic, Soderling etc. if he is continue playing at the top. Federer & Djokovic are probably the only real pure big hit killers in the game.

Good comment. If Djokovic can get out of his funk, he and Federer could realistically dominate the game next season. Murray could be in there, but he is just entering a new funk. Nadal is just too injured right now, and may never get back to form on anything other than clay courts.

madmax
11-11-2009, 04:19 PM
bump...

bokehlicious
11-11-2009, 04:20 PM
Likely...

Everko
11-11-2009, 05:30 PM
There's no question.

He still owns the clay and grass.

what more must be said

Ichiban1920
11-11-2009, 06:51 PM
There's no question.

He still owns the clay and grass.

what more must be said

Nadull is finished. Sorry fanboy.

kandygram
11-11-2009, 06:58 PM
Oh yes, at 23 years old it's time to put Rafa out to pasture. Call a stud farm and reserve a stall for him. :aplot:

Sean
11-11-2009, 07:07 PM
Oh yes, at 23 years old it's time to put Rafa out to pasture. Call a stud farm and reserve a stall for him. :aplot:

Hingis was done at 19 age means nothing, when the game becomes too powerful for you and ypu start getting injuries like nadal and his knees your not gonna win slams. Nadal is deffo done.

Arkulari
11-11-2009, 07:18 PM
http://archvillain.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/not-this-again.jpg

Sunset of Age
11-11-2009, 07:22 PM
Laws of MTF: "One bad loss, and you're done, your career is over & you should retire..."

Oh, wait! He didn't even lose! :lol:

Matt01
11-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Laws of MTF: "One bad loss, and you're done, your career is over & you should retire..."

Oh, wait! He didn't even lose! :lol:


:worship:

Orka_n
11-11-2009, 07:45 PM
There's no question.

He still owns the clay and grass.

what more must be saidExcept, he doesn't. :shrug:
That's like saying "The ocean is dry. What more must be said?" That last sentence of yours doesn't mean crap.

@ Bonnie the Cat: I hear you but the reason I have doubts about Nadal claiming another Slam is that I can't picture him ever being in the same form as he was last year.

laurie-1
11-11-2009, 07:48 PM
There's a thread with a similar title on TennisForum about Elena Dementieva, without the word "again" - of course!

I wouldn't write off Nadal yet. But the way he lost to Del Potro at the US Open semifinal was quite incredible. It was the same problem Nadal has always had on hardcourts, that is with his extreme grip he often drops the ball too short, which allows his opponents to attack him at their leisure. Its happened against these guys on hardcourts and the US Open in particular:

Tsonga - at the 2008 Aussie Open
Youzny - US Open
Blake - US Open
Del Potro - US Open
Djokovic - Cincinnati
Murray!!! - US Open

Ironically Amelie Mauresmo with her extreme grip on the forehand side has identical problems and its also one of the reasons she hasn't done well on the fast hardcourts in America and New York (she's won the Canadian Open but that court has seemed slower and high bouncing during the course of this decade).

Why the exclamation marks for Murray? Murray is a counterpuncher for goodness sake! And yet he was the one bossing the semifinal against Nadal last year at the US Open.

The hardcourts in Australia suit Nadal more because they are slower than in New York and higher bouncing, therefore Nadal has a bit more time to set up his shots and counterpunch effectively and get onto the offensive himself with his forehand.

So Nadal is still capable of winning in Australia and Paris. Not sure about Wimbledon, if the weather gets hot in London and the court plays quick, then his chances are diminished, if the weather is dodgy then he has more of a chance as the courts will play slower with higher bounce (and I am considering the roof equation).

Just one sidenote on Murray. Its absolutely incredible (or is that incredolous?) that a man who stands 6 ft 3, which is 2 metres plus with such a strong 1st serve and movement should choose to play a counterpunching style. Murray and Gael Monfils need a good hiding for that! If Murray really wants to win a slam next year he will have to play more aggressive in the big matches at the key moments and considerably up the % of points he wins on his 2nd serve because right now his 2nd serve is substandard and no player wins a Major tournament with a substandard 2nd serve.

Sorry to stray from Nadal to Murray but at least I have addressed Nadal's issues.

Sunset of Age
11-11-2009, 07:50 PM
@ Bonnie the Cat: I hear you but the reason I have doubts about Nadal claiming another Slam is that I can't picture him ever being in the same form as he was last year.

Of course we don't know. I have some doubts as well, especially as he's been playing at his top level for quite some years already - but as long as he stays anything near healthy during the clay season (i.e. doesn't overplay! :o), he will be a clear fav for yet another couple of RG titles at least. At least I think so. :)
Writing him off in this part of the season, which has been done about every year, has been proven quite wrong so far eh. ;)

Nole fan
11-11-2009, 07:51 PM
@ Arkulari :haha:

You people are so over the top with your comments. How can you write him off so early? Some are just desperate for Fed to win more slams and get Nadal out of the way. It ain't gonna happen!

@ Death Clay... excellent post and very insightful.

Har-Tru
11-11-2009, 08:23 PM
My suspicions that this might be true keep growing by the hour.

jonas
11-11-2009, 08:40 PM
just name one player in the entire history of the sport who has achieved that by age 22? just give me one name of a player who has 36 titles that include 6 slams on all surfaces and 15 masters shields on all surfaces. i need just one name. now.


Borg had 35 titles (on all surfaces) and 6 GS at the age of 22. Don't know how many of his titles can be considered masters shields.

MalwareDie
11-11-2009, 11:06 PM
Mugboar is done. I mentioned this after RG and it will stay true.

madmax
11-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Mighty bump:devil:

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
11-14-2009, 02:49 PM
rbXndk6dwAA

what will soon be happening to Rafa on clay courts

FedFan_2007
11-14-2009, 03:01 PM
Mods - please delete this useless thread NOW.

Midnight Ninja
11-14-2009, 03:03 PM
I don't see how he will defend AO with his current pusher game but he is far from never winning a GS again (at least not until the FO changes its court).

FedFan_2007
11-14-2009, 03:04 PM
Rafa will be back to 100% form by the time Australia rolls around again. Then as he powers through his draw, all of you haters will be shaking in fear again.

Johnny Groove
11-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Nadal's results since he came back after missing Wimbledon:

QF
SF
SF
SF
F
SF

Bascially, the same results he usually has at this time of year. He'll be back next year defending his AO crown.

He probably won't win it again, but I defy anyone to say with a straight face that he'll lose at RG again. And he still has shots at Wimbledon. He's made the final the past 3 times he's played it.

Nole fan
11-14-2009, 05:29 PM
Nadal has had a lot going on for him this year which may have hurt his game. Add to all the injuries that his parents recently divorced. They were a very tight unit and given that tennis is an individual sport and players count on their families for support, I'm sure this must have affected his mental power.

siloe26
11-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Nadal's results since he came back after missing Wimbledon:

QF
SF
SF
SF
F
SF

Bascially, the same results he usually has at this time of year. He'll be back next year defending his AO crown.

He probably won't win it again, but I defy anyone to say with a straight face that he'll lose at RG again. And he still has shots at Wimbledon. He's made the final the past 3 times he's played it.

yes, it's true, his results are not bad for this part of the year. But there is still something that I don't like: he's fresh. He struggles to find his game again, but he's not dead tired like he generally is. Really, I'm quite worried because he needs to play a lot to find his game (very clear), but if he plays too much, he gets injured (like most players BTW). And the older he'll get, the more difficult it will be. I fear that it could become a huge problem (I would love to be wrong, of course). If he can stay healthy, I have no doubt about the fact that we will see the best Nadal once again. And more than once. He's a divine champion. :worship:

Start da Game
11-14-2009, 06:06 PM
Nadal has had a lot going on for him this year which may have hurt his game. Add to all the injuries that his parents recently divorced. They were a very tight unit and given that tennis is an individual sport and players count on their families for support, I'm sure this must have affected his mental power.

yes, it's true, his results are not bad for this part of the year. But there is still something that I don't like: he's fresh. He struggles to find his game again, but he's not dead tired like he generally is. Really, I'm quite worried because he needs to play a lot to find his game (very clear), but if he plays too much, he gets injured (like most players BTW). And the older he'll get, the more difficult it will be. I fear that it could become a huge problem (I would love to be wrong, of course). If he can stay healthy, I have no doubt about the fact that we will see the best Nadal once again. And more than once. He's a divine champion. :worship:

good observations........i will quickly add something here.......

he was playing in pain at both cincinnatti and us open and hence should not have played all of thailand(which he didn't rightly), beijing and shanghai.......by playing those events being not fully fit, what he did was he allowed his peers to beat him and allowed them to dent his confidence.......it must be frustrating to lose in the semis and finals.......all hardwork (while being not fully fit) for nothing in the end.......

why not just give his body some rest and recharge himself.......by playing continuously from the us open, he actually let his confidence level drop immensely........i have been saying since the thailand event that paris should be the event which he should look at to return.......

instead, he rushed his return(after injury) and allowed other players to dent his confidence.......how did he win AO this year? by playing tons of tennis leading into the tournament? NO......he rested for almost 2 months.......played a couple of exos and an event in doha.......solid warm-up.......many people have a myth that he wins when he is playing a lot of tennis but actually he wins a lot when he is fully fit and has adequate match practice.......

in rafa's case, fitness and confidence are the keys.......rest will take care of itself........but to his own bad, he never seems to realize it.......

mandeep
11-14-2009, 06:11 PM
good observations........i will quickly add something here.......

he was playing in pain at both cincinnatti and us open and hence should not have played all of thailand(which he didn't rightly), beijing and shanghai.......by playing those events being not fully fit, what he did was he allowed his peers to beat him and allowed them to dent his confidence.......it must be frustrating to lose in the semis and finals.......all hardwork (while being not fully fit) for nothing in the end.......

why not just give his body some rest and recharge himself.......by playing continuously from the us open, he actually let his confidence level drop immensely........i have been saying since the thailand event that paris should be the event which he should look at to return.......

instead, he rushed his return(after injury) and allowed other players to dent his confidence.......how did he win AO this year? by playing tons of tennis leading into the tournament? NO......he rested for almost 2 months.......played a couple of exos and an event in doha.......solid warm-up.......many people have a myth that he wins when he is playing a lot of tennis but actually he wins a lot when he is fully fit and has adequate match practice.......

in rafa's case, fitness and confidence are the keys.......rest will take care of itself........but to his own bad, he never seems to realize it.......

It seems like you know Nadal better than himself. Clearly, if he hasn't figured this shit now, he never will. I am sure Rafa and his team know better than you (unless you have some inside information) when he should play and when he shouldn't.

The guy lost some tennis matches. It happens to everybody, I am sure he will figure it out. If losing a few matches is going to hurt his confidence than he's no spartan, fighter , warrior bullshit most of his fans claim him to be.

MrChopin
11-14-2009, 06:18 PM
He will still be the favorite for RG next year and definitely a top pick for Wimbledon. Hard courts aren't going to get any easier.

momo_momo
11-14-2009, 06:23 PM
Oh I hope so.

Start da Game
11-14-2009, 06:27 PM
It seems like you know Nadal better than himself. Clearly, if he hasn't figured this shit now, he never will. I am sure Rafa and his team know better than you (unless you have some inside information) when he should play and when he shouldn't.

The guy lost some tennis matches. It happens to everybody, I am sure he will figure it out. If losing a few matches is going to hurt his confidence than he's no spartan, fighter , warrior bullshit most of his fans claim him to be.

he is losing tennis matches which he would usually win with his routine forehands and backhands and what's worse is he knows it.......that must be hurting coz you know you can beat them but you are not allowing yourself for that to happen.......ultimately the one who is hurting his confidence is he himself by allowing others to beat him.......

he is a spartan who plays on and on, fearing nothing, be it injuries or defeats........he never thinks twice whether to play a tournament or not unless he is passing time in a wheel chair.......hence he gets injured again and again.......if he thought like a normal tennis player this year, by now he would have been sitting pretty with 8 slams in his bag and a smirk on his face........but that's just not rafa i guess.......

phelbyn
11-14-2009, 06:38 PM
Rafa will be back to 100% form by the time Australia rolls around again. Then as he powers through his draw, all of you haters will be shaking in fear again.

Unfortunately we have to see the truth: Nadal has made it deep into his draws since his return... but how many of those victories came because his opponent retired? And how many of those victories did he have to save match points?

I understand the admiration towards a certain player, but we need to admit that Nadal is NOWHERE CLOSE TO HIS BEST TENNIS RIGHT NOW. He has been blown off the court in his defeats when it comes time to face top players. And the top players are not afraid of him anymore.

Nadal will need to work a lot out until he is ready to contend a grand slam again... unless his draw opens with retirements and frail minded lower ranked opponents who cannot close out a match against him.

mandeep
11-14-2009, 06:42 PM
he is losing tennis matches which he would usually win with his routine forehands and backhands and what's worse is he knows it.......that must be hurting coz you know you can beat them but you are not allowing yourself for that to happen.......ultimately the one who is hurting his confidence is he himself by allowing others to beat him.......

he is a spartan who plays on and on, fearing nothing, be it injuries or defeats........he never thinks twice whether to play a tournament or not unless he is passing time in a wheel chair.......hence he gets injured again and again.......if he thought like a normal tennis player this year, by now he would have been sitting pretty with 8 slams in his bag and a smirk on his face........but that's just not rafa i guess.......

I don't understand what your point is? He is losing matches, which he should win by allowing other people to beat him? So, you rather he sit at home and not play and get better.

And you think this has never occurred to him? He wakes up in the morning and say's if I rest up for a few months I could win a grand slam, instead he goes 'duh, what the fuck, i ll just go play and lose, destroying my confidence and further injuring myself, so it will take long for me to recover'. In that case he's a dumb ass.

Nole fan
11-14-2009, 06:51 PM
It's funny how the same is said about Federer. :rolleyes:

madmax
11-14-2009, 07:04 PM
he is losing tennis matches which he would usually win with his routine forehands and backhands and what's worse is he knows it.......that must be hurting coz you know you can beat them but you are not allowing yourself for that to happen.......ultimately the one who is hurting his confidence is he himself by allowing others to beat him.......

he is a spartan who plays on and on, fearing nothing, be it injuries or defeats........he never thinks twice whether to play a tournament or not unless he is passing time in a wheel chair.......hence he gets injured again and again.......if he thought like a normal tennis player this year, by now he would have been sitting pretty with 8 slams in his bag and a smirk on his face........but that's just not rafa i guess.......

:haha::haha::haha: This is some real comedy gold here...MTF never fails to deliver I guess

siloe26
11-14-2009, 07:09 PM
good observations........i will quickly add something here.......

he was playing in pain at both cincinnatti and us open and hence should not have played all of thailand(which he didn't rightly), beijing and shanghai.......by playing those events being not fully fit, what he did was he allowed his peers to beat him and allowed them to dent his confidence.......it must be frustrating to lose in the semis and finals.......all hardwork (while being not fully fit) for nothing in the end.......

why not just give his body some rest and recharge himself.......by playing continuously from the us open, he actually let his confidence level drop immensely........i have been saying since the thailand event that paris should be the event which he should look at to return.......

instead, he rushed his return(after injury) and allowed other players to dent his confidence.......how did he win AO this year? by playing tons of tennis leading into the tournament? NO......he rested for almost 2 months.......played a couple of exos and an event in doha.......solid warm-up.......many people have a myth that he wins when he is playing a lot of tennis but actually he wins a lot when he is fully fit and has adequate match practice.......

in rafa's case, fitness and confidence are the keys.......rest will take care of itself........but to his own bad, he never seems to realize it.......

I understand what you mean, but it's actually a wrong idea that Nadal plays a lot. He plays less tournaments than many other players. And in this case, if he didn't play Beijing and Shanghai, he wouldn't be able to do anything in Paris. And afer having missed a part of the season, it would be a disaster for his ranking. Then you meet the "big guys" early in the tournaments and it's like this that you fall again in the rankings. It's a vicious circle. Personally, I appreciate the fact that Nadal saved his points. His results are normal for him in this part of the year. Good for his ranking. He can be number 1, 2, 3 or 4, it won't change many things. It means that he's protected against Federer, Djokovic and Murray before the SF and maybe Del Potro if one of the other ones is not there. The more you go deep in the rankings, the more difficult it gets.

siloe26
11-14-2009, 07:13 PM
I don't understand what your point is? He is losing matches, which he should win by allowing other people to beat him? So, you rather he sit at home and not play and get better.

And you think this has never occurred to him? He wakes up in the morning and say's if I rest up for a few months I could win a grand slam, instead he goes 'duh, what the fuck, i ll just go play and lose, destroying my confidence and further injuring myself, so it will take long for me to recover'. In that case he's a dumb ass.

Yeah, Rafa should stay at home. At home, he wouldn't lose.:D But he would neve win either. :D

FedFan_2007
11-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Shankar - don't let these fools get you down. You have to know they are quaking in fear at the prospect of a rejuvenated Rafa!

mandeep
11-14-2009, 08:04 PM
Shankar - don't let these fools get you down. You have to know they are quaking in fear at the prospect of a rejuvenated Rafa!

Oh I am shaking....oh no...what if rafa wins....the world is going to end..

Forehander
11-14-2009, 10:51 PM
He's below his peak yes. But one thing should be clear: Nadal's game is rather uni-dimensional. More and more players coming up to the top are coping with his game. They are treating Nadal as a top spin ball machine drilling the shots as hard as they can corner to corner.

pray-for-palestine-and-israel
11-15-2009, 12:27 AM
first the rafa fans say he can't win the USO because he's too tired

THEN

he takes a huge vacation, rests in his swimming pool all summer long and is totally fresh for the USO 2009

THEN

the Rafa fans say he is still too injured to be playing even though his results say otherwise

regardless- he gets spanked by Del potro (showing you how to win a fast court slam)

THEN the rafa fans are saying he'll be better next year-

whats wrong with him right now? stage freight?

Rafa fans are just full of ess-heych-eye-tee

kaylee
11-15-2009, 12:29 AM
I wondered how long it would take before this thread came up again. Sigh move on people - so Nole beat him so what - the entire year has been pretty good considering.

Sunset of Age
11-15-2009, 01:16 AM
Rafa has in fact done pretty well in the USO/post-USO part of the season this year, so I don't get where all that doom&gloom comes from... semis and finals all along. Unless some folks really did expect him to take everything by storm, well, think again.

In other words, to answer the question: YES of course he'll win quite a few other slams!

Start da Game
11-15-2009, 05:50 AM
I understand what you mean, but it's actually a wrong idea that Nadal plays a lot. He plays less tournaments than many other players. And in this case, if he didn't play Beijing and Shanghai, he wouldn't be able to do anything in Paris. And afer having missed a part of the season, it would be a disaster for his ranking. Then you meet the "big guys" early in the tournaments and it's like this that you fall again in the rankings. It's a vicious circle. Personally, I appreciate the fact that Nadal saved his points. His results are normal for him in this part of the year. Good for his ranking. He can be number 1, 2, 3 or 4, it won't change many things. It means that he's protected against Federer, Djokovic and Murray before the SF and maybe Del Potro if one of the other ones is not there. The more you go deep in the rankings, the more difficult it gets.

he plays a lot siloe26........can you believe that last year he missed TMC, retired midway of paris and yet ended up playing 110 matches? doubles included.......

this year, he was injured to such an extent that he lost in the 4th round of his slam and skipped both queen's club and wimbledon.......guess what federer played only one tournament more than rafa who has been injured since may this year.......what's worse is he plays doubles everywhere........

there's no bigger proof than AO 2009 that he delivers his best on hardcourts only when he is fit, totally fresh and has adequate match practice.......he had something like 50 days off(courtesy his injury) before those exos in abu dhabi this year.......

siloe26
11-15-2009, 08:55 AM
he plays a lot siloe26........can you believe that last year he missed TMC, retired midway of paris and yet ended up playing 110 matches? doubles included.......

this year, he was injured to such an extent that he lost in the 4th round of his slam and skipped both queen's club and wimbledon.......guess what federer played only one tournament more than rafa who has been injured since may this year.......what's worse is he plays doubles everywhere........

there's no bigger proof than AO 2009 that he delivers his best on hardcourts only when he is fit, totally fresh and has adequate match practice.......he had something like 50 days off(courtesy his injury) before those exos in abu dhabi this year.......

I've just checked the number of matches. He actually played 93 matches last year. But maybe 110 with the doubles, I don't know that stat. But there is a reason for that: he won many tournaments and went very far everywhere. Actually, he plays the Masters Series and very few other tournaments. There is only one moment in the year where he plays too much and it's during the clay season. But I would say that he doesn't have the choice. He plays the Masters Series and Barcelona (his local tournament) and goes to the end each time. And it's incredible that the clay season is so short and so concentrated. The problem is that after having killed grass players, the ATP is now killing clay court players. Players have to play on HC all year. Probably not a coincidence if all the top players (except Nadal and eventually Federer who is still at his best on grass) are HC players. It's very hard for the other ones.
It's true that he often plays doubles, but I think it's more to get the feeling in the beginning of the tournaments. His body doesn't really suffer. He often ends his match pristine. He rarely sweat in those matches.

Start da Game
11-15-2009, 09:42 AM
getting rid of doubles and useless events like exos, rotterdam, dubai itself will help him immensely over a length of a season.......15-20 useless hardcourt matches eliminated then and there itself.......it's also good to throw an excuse and skip one of IW/miami.......his tennis really starts at montecarlo every year on a surface that doesn't hurt his body much.......

Commander Data
11-15-2009, 11:53 AM
Rafa is past his peak (so are Murray and Federer). But Rafa will likely win more Slams, so does Fed. The FO being Nadals best chance, obviously.

Lalalovesong
11-15-2009, 12:11 PM
I really don´t know why this thread is so long!
This thread is past its peak!!

Rafa Champ Nadal passed his peak? Federer maybe, but rafa is still so young!
He will come Back!

andylovesaustin
11-15-2009, 12:34 PM
I just think other people are challenging him now.

However, he might just as well "peak" at a grand slam event. It seems to me, Rafa does pretty well at best of 5 sets rather than best of 3. Rafa has the endurance to do well in best of 5 sets where some of the other top players might tank.

I'm just glad his playing and competing relatively well. He's hanging around near the top of each tournament, maybe not winning but still nearly making it to the final.

I'm happy for Nole though. I'm glad he's doing well. So.. it's a win/win situation for me.

Vida
11-15-2009, 12:42 PM
getting rid of doubles and useless events like exos, rotterdam, dubai itself will help him immensely over a length of a season.......15-20 useless hardcourt matches eliminated then and there itself.......it's also good to throw an excuse and skip one of IW/miami.......his tennis really starts at montecarlo every year on a surface that doesn't hurt his body much.......

exactly. he should dump madrid if not barcelona as well. just to make sure RG is in the bag. once that is in, Wimbledon is in range.

siloe26
11-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Rafa is past his peak (so are Murray and Federer). But Rafa will likely win more Slams, so does Fed. The FO being Nadals best chance, obviously.

Federer is definitely past his peak. It doesn't mean that he can't win anything big again. I don't know for Rafa. He could be. He's young but he has been at the top for 5 years already. But I'm sure he will still win something big. He's a champion, he will find the energy somewhere. But Murray past his peak? Certainly not. He's still "growing up". Djokovic could be at his peak (not sure), but not Murray.

siloe26
11-15-2009, 12:49 PM
getting rid of doubles and useless events like exos, rotterdam, dubai itself will help him immensely over a length of a season.......15-20 useless hardcourt matches eliminated then and there itself.......it's also good to throw an excuse and skip one of IW/miami.......his tennis really starts at montecarlo every year on a surface that doesn't hurt his body much.......

I really think that the doubles are not a problem for him. It's not exhausting and it helps him to find the rythm. He could find an excuse to avoid those tournaments on hard court, but they are played at a moment of the year where he wants matches to find or keep his rythm. I think that's the problem. Again, Rafa's problem for me is the calender. With this calender, he can't play many tournaments on clay because there are Masters Series on HC to play. He can't find an excuse to not play them and go to play a smaller tournament on clay. And when the clay season arrives, since he wins everything, he has to play everyday. Again, for me, the calender is really a shame. Maybe it's fine for HC players, but for the other ones, it's lethal.

Commander Data
11-15-2009, 01:30 PM
Federer is definitely past his peak. It doesn't mean that he can't win anything big again. I don't know for Rafa. He could be. He's young but he has been at the top for 5 years already. But I'm sure he will still win something big. He's a champion, he will find the energy somewhere. But Murray past his peak? Certainly not. He's still "growing up". Djokovic could be at his peak (not sure), but not Murray.

You are under the impression that Murrays tennis is improving? I'm not. The mental pressure grows and grows for him that takes it's toll. He needs a slam soon. otherwise I think his form will go down.

jcempire
11-15-2009, 01:42 PM
first the rafa fans say he can't win the USO because he's too tired

THEN

he takes a huge vacation, rests in his swimming pool all summer long and is totally fresh for the USO 2009

THEN

the Rafa fans say he is still too injured to be playing even though his results say otherwise

regardless- he gets spanked by Del potro (showing you how to win a fast court slam)

THEN the rafa fans are saying he'll be better next year-

whats wrong with him right now? stage freight?

Rafa fans are just full of ess-heych-eye-tee

--------------------------------------------------------

:haha:

You are kidding here?

Man.......
He is getting better.

Come on. He needs time to get back to his best condition

Murray's Mint
11-15-2009, 09:46 PM
In terms of winning GSs I think Rafa is past his peak. I'm sure he will win a few more, but only a few. It wasn't that long ago when there was a strong body of opinion suggesting that it would be Rafa not Roger eclipsing Pete's record and completing the career slam. Rafa has got a chance of a career slam but I doubt he'll last long enough or win consitently enough to reach double figures for GSs.

djb84xi
11-17-2009, 06:21 AM
I don't think he has passed his peak at all. Like many great players, he's experiencing a year where anything that can go wrong, goes wrong, and his confidence gets shaken up pretty badly. But if Rafa is the guy I think he is, like good players have done before, he will reinvent himself and his game.

Rafa and his camp know now that his game is no longer working as it once did, and in order for him to go to the next level as well as overcome his many nemesis, he must reinvent himself completely, and I think it will be a major focal point during the offseason.

First and foremost, he needs to stay healthy, by resting more and playing less tournaments. But after that, it's critical that Rafa makes a change to improve his serve and focus strictly on becoming an OFFENSIVE player. His tactics on fast surfaces MUST change in order for him to have better success and overcome the slump he's having against the bigger, flatter hitters.

I honestly think Rafa is FAR from done winning slams. He knows that this year was a big wake up call for him, but I think in 2010 he will reinvent himself and come back to life.

Mechlan
11-17-2009, 06:42 AM
First and foremost, he needs to stay healthy, by resting more and playing less tournaments. But after that, it's critical that Rafa makes a change to improve his serve and focus strictly on becoming an OFFENSIVE player. His tactics on fast surfaces MUST change in order for him to have better success and overcome the slump he's having against the bigger, flatter hitters.

It's funny. Every top player fan base criticizes their favorite for not being offensive enough. Murray, Djokovic, Federer, even Nadal, all of them apparently need to play more offensively. Two things strike me about that. One, it's not easy to play aggressively. I think these guys all know that they play their best when they're attacking. But it's also very easy to strew errors everywhere unless you're actually playing well. Two, courts are obviously playing slow, which benefits defense. It's easier to defend, which is why they all fall back on it. Finding that line between offense and defense isn't easy, and when the surface benefits one over the other, it becomes tough to justify attempting more difficult shots when it's easier to defend and that style works against 95% of the tour.

djb84xi
11-18-2009, 08:31 PM
It's funny. Every top player fan base criticizes their favorite for not being offensive enough. Murray, Djokovic, Federer, even Nadal, all of them apparently need to play more offensively. Two things strike me about that. One, it's not easy to play aggressively. I think these guys all know that they play their best when they're attacking. But it's also very easy to strew errors everywhere unless you're actually playing well. Two, courts are obviously playing slow, which benefits defense. It's easier to defend, which is why they all fall back on it. Finding that line between offense and defense isn't easy, and when the surface benefits one over the other, it becomes tough to justify attempting more difficult shots when it's easier to defend and that style works against 95% of the tour.

You make a great point. It isn't easy to go from defense to offense at the snap of a finger. :)

ForehandWinner
11-19-2009, 01:54 AM
Do you have no memory at all! He won AO this year. Have you no patience?!

ForehandWinner
11-19-2009, 01:55 AM
For all the freakin bashers....Tennis today without Fed, Rafa, Djok and Murray will be freakin boring and have no one to watch.

kengyin
11-19-2009, 03:46 AM
i agree

Noleta
11-19-2009, 05:40 PM
Gosh:eek:the Guy is only 23yrs old:spit:Wonder what will happen if he was to win wtf:haha::p

Sunset of Age
11-19-2009, 05:49 PM
Gosh:eek:the Guy is only 23yrs old:spit:Wonder what will happen if he was to win wtf:haha::p

It's not just a matter of age, it's more a matter of mileage. So I indeed think Nadal is behind his peak (2008), but before people start bashing me for this: one should never forget what a sky-high peak that was! :worship:
Saying he's 'done' and never will win any GS again is of course rightout silly. Plenty players have managed to do so beyond their 'peak', it's in fact one of those merits that divide the men from the boys, and I have no doubt Rafa will surely rack up some more GSs.
And I'm not counting him out for the WTF either btw. ;)

Noleta
11-19-2009, 05:56 PM
Well yeah,he had his injuries,but i remember some saying the same about Fed,that he should retire blah blah blah...But here we are yet again,this time it's Rafa's time:spit:

madmax
11-19-2009, 05:58 PM
nice to see my thread going proud and strong:devil: And I stick to my original prediction - Nadull is finished as a grand slam winner, his game is figured out on EVERY surface, Soderling simply showed the way of executing a simple game plan against garbage baller...

Clay Death
11-19-2009, 05:59 PM
nice to see my thread going proud and strong:devil: And I stick to my original prediction - Nadull is finished as a grand slam winner, his game is figured out on EVERY surface, Soderling simply showed the way of executing a simple game plan against garbage baller...



http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz47/claydeath/crack_pipe.jpg

Noleta
11-19-2009, 06:00 PM
nice to see my thread going proud and strong:devil: And I stick to my original prediction - Nadull is finished as a grand slam winner, his game is figured out on EVERY surface, Soderling simply showed the way of executing a simple game plan against garbage baller...

What if he does win RG?:eek:What are you gonna do with yourself?:eek:

Sunset of Age
11-19-2009, 06:10 PM
Well yeah,he had his injuries,but i remember some saying the same about Fed,that he should retire blah blah blah...But here we are yet again,this time it's Rafa's time:spit:

It's one of the most notorious Laws of MTF: a few bad losses and you're done, should retire, and will never win any title whatsoever anymore... ;)

Cloudygirl
11-19-2009, 06:16 PM
It's one of the most notorious Laws of MTF: a few bad losses and you're done, should retire, and will never win any title whatsoever anymore... ;)


And even if you are the GOAT you lose once and you are suddenly the biggest mug that has ever lived.

Sunset of Age
11-19-2009, 06:17 PM
And even if you are the GOAT you lose once and you are suddenly the biggest mug that has ever lived.

That's sub b. to that same rule. ;)

DrJules
11-20-2009, 06:59 PM
I think Nadal has probably passed his peak, but consider him very likely to win the French Open 2 or 3 times more. Elsewhere only see possibly a Wimbledon win. Think he will not win Australian Open again or US Open.

djb84xi
11-20-2009, 11:30 PM
For all the freakin bashers....Tennis today without Fed, Rafa, Djok and Murray will be freakin boring and have no one to watch.

You're so damn right about that. What would tennis be without them? Nadal has a lot more left than people seem to think. The bashing is just sheer jealousy. :devil:

FairWeatherFan
11-21-2009, 03:01 AM
Another grand slam is not out of question, but hard to see his body holding up for an extended period of time.

ForehandWinner
11-21-2009, 03:13 AM
And even if you are the GOAT you lose once and you are suddenly the biggest mug that has ever lived.

I agree. It is amazing how people love to spread negativity. This guy is finished...that guy should retire...he is mug...he tanks...this ..that....phew. Have some milk...wud ya!

madmax
11-23-2009, 03:17 PM
Affirmative:wavey:

swann
11-23-2009, 03:36 PM
I think that he must change his strategy, he must reinvent himself. Nadal has lost weight (to relieve his knees), he doesn't rely so much on his muscular build; he tries to save his energy and therefore he doesn't run after every ball, as previously. Therefore, he must somehow compensate: a more aggressive forehand, a better serve, improve his dropshots, his volleys; there are enough areas to ameliorate. He must be more offensive, take risks.

stebs
11-23-2009, 03:43 PM
I think Nadal has probably passed his peak, but consider him very likely to win the French Open 2 or 3 times more. Elsewhere only see possibly a Wimbledon win. Think he will not win Australian Open again or US Open.

That sounds about right to me. I think he is very likely to win at least 1 more RG and he may have chances to snatch another Wimbledon but his HC chances look slim right about now.

I still think that he will be in with a shot at #1 next year though.

Nidhogg
11-23-2009, 03:46 PM
I wouldn't count him out come RG if he schedules his tournaments wisely leading up to it. Let's see how he looks on clay next week. Winning the Davis Cup should be a boost to his spirit.

madmax
11-23-2009, 03:50 PM
I just think other playes started to play him much SMARTER than before and employ right tactics against him...he isn't playing any different right now than he was last year, he simply doesn't have the mental advantage over other players anymore - they all BELIEVE they can beat him and swing freely on court. As in the past they just freezed and the occasion has gotten to them...I seriously believe the poor fellas slam winning days are over - he took advantage of mentally weak players before, not so much these days.

swann
11-23-2009, 04:09 PM
Mats Wilander has the same opinion as yours, that players have figured out how to play Nadal and Murray and that's why they are losing; I don't buy it :). Everyone knew how to beat Nadal (remember that everybody was giving advises to Federer on "how to beat Nadal on clay"?): play aggressively, flat, hit the lines, take the ball early; players were trying to adopt this tactic but Nadal v.2008 was winning; why? because this tactic is very risky, no one could hit winner after winner and in the end you had to come with a nearly flawless performance to beat Rafa.

For me, Wilander has no logic: in the first half of the year Nadal was unstoppable; in the second half of the year, Soderling, Davydenko, Djokovic, Cilic, DelPotro SUDDENLY become smarter and knew how to play Nadal? Give me a break.

ForehandWinner
11-23-2009, 04:25 PM
I think Nadal has probably passed his peak, but consider him very likely to win the French Open 2 or 3 times more. Elsewhere only see possibly a Wimbledon win. Think he will not win Australian Open again or US Open.

No one thought he would win AO when he did.

rofe
11-23-2009, 04:27 PM
Nadal is a multiple slam winner. He cannot be counted out at least for the next few years.

Matt01
11-23-2009, 04:27 PM
Affirmative:wavey:


Pathetic hater :wavey:

Sophocles
11-23-2009, 04:33 PM
For me, Wilander has no logic: in the first half of the year Nadal was unstoppable; in the second half of the year, Soderling, Davydenko, Djokovic, Cilic, DelPotro SUDDENLY become smarter and knew how to play Nadal? Give me a break.

He wasn't unstoppable: he lost to Monfils, Murray, & Del Potro on hard courts & to Federer & Soderling on clay. Since then, Del Potro, who had already been him, HAS become a better player, enjoying his breakthrough year, while Davydenko & Cilic didn't play him earlier in the year (& Cilic has also had a bit of a breakthrough year), & Djokovic played him only on clay, having always owned him on hard courts. So I'm not sure what your point is.

Ichiban1920
11-23-2009, 04:35 PM
Nadull is done.

WOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Knotty Fort
11-23-2009, 04:50 PM
Well one thing I have noticed that is missing from Nadal's present game is his running ability. Remember those days he would hit at least 2 or 3 "screamers" from the most jaw-dropping positions on the court for a winner? I don't think those shots are just flashy, they also demoralize the opponent A LOT, making them to go for too much eventually. Nowadays, he can't do them anymore and his oppoents are definitely in a much better frame of mind to go for controlled aggression because there is no need to go for so much.

swann
11-23-2009, 04:51 PM
He wasn't unstoppable: he lost to Monfils, Murray, & Del Potro on hard courts
Actually, I would take only DelPotro's win into account: game with Monfils was at the beginning of the season and he was injured in that final with Murray (he couldn't move in 3rd set).
My point: prior to Roland Garros, he was 43-4 in 2009; after RG, he is 24-8; I personally find Wilander's explanation unfounded; everyone looking at tennis knew how to beat Nadal: why this didn't happen in the first 4 months of 2009?

@Knotty Fort
exact; he doesn't run for every ball any longer, therefore an important part of his game faded away; he must do something else instead.

Sophocles
11-23-2009, 04:55 PM
Actually, I would take only DelPotro's win into account: game with Monfils was at the beginning of the season and he was injured in that final with Murray (he couldn't move in 3rd set).
My point: prior to Roland Garros, he was 43-4 in 2009; after RG, he is 24-8; I personally find Wilander's explanation unfounded; everyone looking at tennis knew how to beat Nadal: why this didn't happen in the first 4 months of 2009?

But it did, whatever your excuses are. It's just happening more now as it always does in the 2nd half of the year, probably because there are more hard-court & indoor tournaments. And as I said, Nadal was fortunate enough to avoid Djokovic & Davydenko in the early-season hard-court tournaments.

swann
11-23-2009, 05:03 PM
What excuses, man? Is my name Nadal and I don't know it? :)) I just have a different opinion than you (or Wilander). What do I need excuses for? :))

Knotty Fort
11-23-2009, 06:26 PM
Well truly speaking i'm no fan of nadal, i'm more of a neutral watcher of his matches (unless he plays federer :P) but i believe the following needs to be established:

1) What is the greatest strength in his game?

I believe it was his physciality; his strength and his speed. His strength enabled him to impart the most spin the tour has seen, and his speed made the players he played to either go for too much (silver platter) or made them tentative and get tricked into plain rallying with Nadal (which is not gonna work). Controlled aggression was pretty much not in their minds when they played Nadal at their best.

2) So what happened now?

Well as age increases, your strength might be pretty much constant, but i would be really surprised if running speed increases. If Nadal's game is gonna be hugely dependent on speed,it's not gonna work for him in the long run. He'll find himself one step slower for shots he could have gotten back before (even back for a screamer for a winner). At the moment, he's only 22 and young, but he definitely seems slower to me. But no matter what he needs to change his game and make the strength part of his game take over the speed part of his game.

Also, anyone who plays tennis knows what wonders confidence can do for your tennis. You can concentrate better, you believe you can hit the ball in any corner, you believe you can track down any shot that your opponent can hit. Nadal's confidence is definitely not at where it was; every time he gets drawn wide he's more focused on getting it back rather than having the confidence to hit it for a screamer.

That said, it's not like Nadal is an inferior player. For people outside the top ten he wins as expected, but maybe some of it rides on his reputation as a fighter (case in point Almagro). But once players know the strategy to play Nadal (boom boom boom just boom the groundstrokes he's not making those screamers anymore), the respect for his fighter reputation goes down and the losses start coming for Nadal.

I think some things Nadal needs to do.

1) Sheesh get a serve. It improved a bit over the past 2 years but this year it's back to that slow kicker/spinnish kind of serve again. It may be something to do with his ab muscles, but I think there's a more fundamental technical root to the problem. He does not really put his body weight into his serve, and his motion is not efficient.

2) Aggressiveness. Definitely got more passive of late, partly due to his lesser ability to flatten his shots out. Way too used to his extreme Western grip, and it was only potent when it had an insane amount of spin of it. He either needs to get that spin back, or he needs to know how to flatten his shots out, like his backhand.

3) Reduce physical strain on his body. This naturally comes with more aggressive play (aggressive payers run less, and points are usually shorter), and maybe working on some of his technique which to me seems very exaggerated (his follow through on the shots, the way he lands on his feet).

Just some of my thoughts.

TennisLurker
11-27-2009, 03:20 PM
After the 1988 US Open, Wilander was the defending champion of three Slams, number 1 in the world and 24 years old.

The next year he fell from the top ten.

This year after the Australian Open Rafa was the defending Champion of three Slams, number one, he is 23 years old.

Will he end up with less slams than Wilander (Mats has 7) when it looked like he was going to win more than Agassi, Connors and Lendl at least?

Action Jackson
11-27-2009, 03:27 PM
Not quite sure at the moment. It will be interesting to see what happens in the first half of next year, if he is well below his usual standards by the time Wimbledon has come around, then perhaps.

Nadal is a more driven character than Wilander, he is lacking confidence at the moment, but he is not a has been. I mean he can be aggressive, but he doesn't do it often enough, relying on his will and strength to win, but confidence is a funny thing.

It will happen eventually, just not sure if this is it.

fsoica
11-27-2009, 03:31 PM
Wilander never won WTF, too ;)

Midnight Ninja
11-27-2009, 03:34 PM
Why are we talking about this so early? The off season is just upon us and a lot can change between now and AO.

Talk to me when the first week of June is over and then you can say Nadal is finished or still fighting.

TennisLurker
11-27-2009, 03:35 PM
Perhaps he should play the Latin American Clay tournies next year, he has not played them since 05.
It could help him get his confidence back.
I mean, nowadays, the players there don't get much better than a Monaco, Robredo or Almagro. He should be able to beat them.

He has to show he is still the top dog on clay at least.

I think that for Mats it was solely a mental issue, but Nadal seems weaker physically to me too.

alter ego
11-27-2009, 03:35 PM
I want to see Nadal vs Berdych on clay. If he loses, then ya you cold say Wilander scenario is possible.

rocketassist
11-27-2009, 03:37 PM
All we're seeing is big ball strikers donkey punch him, it's no big deal.

Goldenoldie
11-27-2009, 03:38 PM
When was the last time Nadal lost 3 matches in a row? Is he still feeling his injury (injuries)? I confess I haven't watched much of him this week, but my gut feeling is that it's far too early to predict his demise, and his losses have been to top players.

If he loses in the first couple of rounds at AO, then it might be time to start composing his epitaph, but not now.

rofe
11-27-2009, 03:39 PM
Nadal has typically not done well during the latter half of the year so any discussion of his demise is premature.

One thing is for sure, he will find it extremely difficult to win the WTF any year.

Action Jackson
11-27-2009, 03:39 PM
I want to see Nadal vs Berdych on clay. If he loses, then ya you cold say Wilander scenario is possible.

Not like Berdych hasn't played well against Nadal on clay before.

born_on_clay
11-27-2009, 03:42 PM
In my opinion Nadal has a very difficult year. He started it fantastic and then troubles appered (parents divorce, knee, abdominal)
Rafa is very strange type of player. He needs to feel comfortable mentally and in his case he needs to be in a match rhythm
To sum up he's burned out but just for this season - he will rebounce in OZ 10 for sure

Burrow
11-27-2009, 03:44 PM
Perhaps he should play the Latin American Clay tournies next year, he has not played them since 05.
It could help him get his confidence back.
I mean, nowadays, the players there don't get much better than a Monaco, Robredo or Almagro. He should be able to beat them.

He has to show he is still the top dog on clay at least.

I think that for Mats it was solely a mental issue, but Nadal seems weaker physically to me too.

Talk about jumping to conclusions...

We haven't even seen what he'd be like fresh after January during the favourite part of his year.

He's only ever won like 1 indoor title, what did you expect of him? Sure, he's not playing great but his results haven't been terrible by any shot.

Playing the clay swing is a nice way to burn himself out again. I think playing 4 clay tournaments is much worse for him physically than playing Rotterdam and people thought that was even a stupid decision and it wouldn't bode well for him going into Indian Wells and Miami (where he is normally very successful)

rocketassist
11-27-2009, 03:47 PM
Not like Berdych hasn't played well against Nadal on clay before.

Should have won Bastad, choked a bit, then Monte Carlo I think it was he played a great set but just got edged.

Berdman was in better form then of course.

Surcouf
11-27-2009, 03:53 PM
Nadal seems completely done, washed up, shot. What a shame for the player he once was. I hope he will not stay too long like Safin if he can't be competitive anymore.

Action Jackson
11-27-2009, 03:55 PM
Should have won Bastad, choked a bit, then Monte Carlo I think it was he played a great set but just got edged.

Berdman was in better form then of course.

That's it, even then when we see a decline in Nadal's showing in the first 7 months of 2010, maybe, but not yet.

kobulingam
11-27-2009, 06:13 PM
You guys are fucking ridiculous. Ive seen this skinny vulnerable less explosive type of Nadal many times before. He will be in HULK mode again at some point(s) next year.

MalwareDie
11-27-2009, 06:21 PM
You guys are fucking ridiculous. Ive seen this skinny vulnerable less explosive type of Nadal many times before. He will be in HULK mode again at some point(s) next year.

How about you come back when you learn how to not copy/paste posts?


Right after Nadal lost RG, I called that he would never win a Slam again and I still feel that way. His style puts much strain on the body and his limited game will make sure he has no chance to win any Slam outside of RG again unless he has 3+ walkovers/retires. He is definitely past his peak and I hope that he is done and stops blighting the sport.

madmax
01-26-2010, 10:47 AM
Yup...:bigcry:

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 10:59 AM
I'm a big Rafa's fan from the beggining of his career and nothing will change it but todays circumstances make me think is a "big" Rafa's career over ?

It's the beggining of 4th week of the season and he already has problems with knees

Rafa's game is based on his movement and now I cannot see him winnning anything except a minor clay court tournament

It's really sad for me but I try to take a realistic view on this case. I really doubt he will be competitive to the top 10 guys. Of course I'm not thinking he will retire soon, he can stay in top 10 but taking into cosideration his career achievements it will not be satysfying for his fans and himself as well

Moreover the tour is more competitive than it was few years ago. Many young guys appeared (Cilic, Nole, del Potro, Murray). Can't really imagine Rafa beating one of them especially on hardcourt


I know the bunch Rafahaters will occur to enjoy that moment as well as a group of Rafatards hoping he will be back on top but plese take this discussion realistically and present reasonable thoughts
I open it for wide discussion
:wavey:

JediFed
01-26-2010, 11:00 AM
Dunno, this is the first time in 5 years when he hasn't possessed a slam. We shall see. RG10 and WIM10 now become rather essential for Rafa.

Sophocles
01-26-2010, 11:00 AM
Too early to say. Plenty of players have come back from worse injury problems to be threats at slams - Safin & Haas for example.

Diprosalic
01-26-2010, 11:01 AM
No, but it's the first time in 5 years he is slamless. thats a bit strange.

MariaV
01-26-2010, 11:01 AM
To answer the OP - yes it is.

Certinfy
01-26-2010, 11:02 AM
Yes.

KolyaLegend
01-26-2010, 11:04 AM
Indeed. But I suppose he will be a force in clay still.

rafa the best
01-26-2010, 11:05 AM
Sadly it is, not just his big career but his whole career. I don't think he'll keep on playing knowing he can't win real titles, he said it himself that when he feels that he will stop and it might happen very soon.
He probably came into this season just testing how things are and what he can do and today he got the answer.

Ibracadabra
01-26-2010, 11:05 AM
In my opinion yes, but i have said that ever since the french. The man just doesn't look the same anymore, it's gonna take a mamoth effort if he is to ever win a slam again.

It would be a real shame to lose him as a player at such a young age but his style has taken it's toal

rubbERR
01-26-2010, 11:06 AM
its not like nadal is force in australian open anyway, he just got very good draw last year and then he faced chokefed.

n8
01-26-2010, 11:07 AM
Nadal is 1-11 (http://statracket.net/?view=articles/davydenkodoha.html) against top 10 players since last year's clay court season. I know injury has played its part but it isn't looking good for Rafa. This clay court season should be very interesting.

green25814
01-26-2010, 11:08 AM
If by 'big' you mean winning slams, I'd say probably. I wouldn't write him off, but I find it very unlikely.

The biggest problem for rafa isn't even his knees imo. He's been worked out, and the top players have the ability to execute now.

Ibracadabra
01-26-2010, 11:09 AM
If he has a poor clay court season it may very well lead to retirement

fnuf7
01-26-2010, 11:09 AM
Wait for the clay, I'm sure he'll be back to winning ways there even with the knees & perhaps the confidence from a winning clay season will push him on for the rest of the year, or at least help a little.

madmax
01-26-2010, 11:10 AM
his title last year was biggest fluke in Slam history anyway...Fed should have won that final, but went bollocks in that final set and let Nadull have a hardcourt title. Dude was lucky to win 6 Majors with as little talent as he has, so he had a good career and overachieved

Byrd
01-26-2010, 11:12 AM
He should just concentrate on Clay & Grass season nowadays.

wackykid
01-26-2010, 11:12 AM
during french... when he was injured that forced him out of wimbledon... i didn't think that his career was over then... but come injuries in USO 2009... injuries in WTF... and now AO 2010... sadly i'm inclined to think his career is over... he may never win another slam other than french again... assuming his injuries does not come back and haunt him in french this year...


regards,
wacky

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 11:13 AM
Nadal is 1-11 (http://statracket.net/?view=articles/davydenkodoha.html) against top 10 players since last year's clay court season. I know injury has played its part but it isn't looking good for Rafa. This clay court season should be very interesting.

that's the point
Rafa was able to beat anyone on the tour because of his playing style but on the other hand it brings him to the point where we stand now.
He won't be able to beat a top 10 player unless he's fully healthly and I really can't see it happening again

rafa the best
01-26-2010, 11:14 AM
It's not just about being 100% healthy, it's also the impact all this had in his head, we've seen how many chances he's been wasting in his matches, even today.

green25814
01-26-2010, 11:14 AM
I definitely think Rafa should stop playing HC. Its just impossible with his style. Clay and grass he can still be a force on.

zeleni
01-26-2010, 11:14 AM
Let us see clay season before making that conclusion.

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 11:15 AM
his title last year was biggest fluke in Slam history anyway...Fed should have won that final, but went bollocks in that final set and let Nadull have a hardcourt title. Dude was lucky to win 6 Majors with as little talent as he has, so he had a good career and overachieved

I asked for reasonable argumentation you hater

Langers
01-26-2010, 11:16 AM
Sadly I think so, his knees are absolutely shot.

Corey Feldman
01-26-2010, 11:16 AM
he played well, the first 2 sets were tight and only a few points here or there

dont worry Nadal fans, he'll fly through French Open and many more events in the future

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 11:18 AM
It's not just about being 100% healthy, it's also the impact all this had in his head, we've seen how many chances he's been wasting in his matches, even today.

affirmative
It looks like he's mentally not there as well

rafa the best
01-26-2010, 11:18 AM
Please haters, let us grieve in peace.

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 11:19 AM
Let us see clay season before making that conclusion.

That's why I titled this thread "big" career
I meant GS and MS titles

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 11:20 AM
Please haters, let us grieve in peace.

+1

you see, I asked but it didn't help

superslam77
01-26-2010, 11:21 AM
There is one answer for all problems: The Serbian Slayer under the new castle treaty.

wackykid
01-26-2010, 11:22 AM
Let us see clay season before making that conclusion.

i'd give you that... if he can still win at clay events and french consistently... he can still hover within top 5... but unlikely to be no.1 again...

but if he starts losing or getting injured on clay events... then... :sad:


regards,
wacky

Commander Data
01-26-2010, 11:28 AM
I wouldn't be so pessismistic. It all depends on how serious the injuries are. If it is something that can heal, then Nadal can win more Slams. He has the game to win Slams and he is still young. So unless it is something that permanetly hambers his movement, I think he will be back at his best.

But it is true. he could be finished. If he can't get his movement back to 100 % he won't beat the top guys. It would be sad because his fighting spirit makes for great matches.
...and Fed still needs to even his head-head :-) . So..Get well Rafa.

No, seriously. To all the Rafa fans:

I wish you and Rafa all the best. He is great Champion, very talented. He shifted tennis to the next level and I have only respect for the guy. AND I believe he will be back to take the RG-crown at some point. Actually, I start to hope he does ;-)
I like those Cindarella-stories

JediFed
01-26-2010, 11:29 AM
I hope he and Roger have many SF and QF matches in the future. :)

MariaV
01-26-2010, 11:30 AM
Let us see clay season before making that conclusion.

IF he should get to the clay season at all. Which is doubtful.

xohxmyx
01-26-2010, 11:32 AM
the obvious problem is rafas playing style its super agressive and very demanding on his body but if he were to change that he wouldnt be rafa anymore, its way to soon to say his over, yes granted he hasnt won a slam in a while but i remeber a couple of hundred people saying a certain R. Federer was done and dusted then he came out and won wimbledon and the french one after the other. just because rafas down doesnt mean his out but, the hard courts definetly arent his friends, to keep up the top of his level and keep his career going, him and his team are going to have to figure out a way to work his game around the hardcourt season.

but its really to soon to say, the clay season really will tell us alot i think.
:hug: to you rafa fans though it has to suck having to repeatedly see your guy go through this =(

Commander Data
01-26-2010, 11:33 AM
Maybe you can find comfort in this:

FORM is temporary but LEGENCY is permanent.

JediFed
01-26-2010, 11:34 AM
That is true, when Roger had a tough time in 2008. However, at no point was he slamless, at least not since 2003. That's what made it ludicrious. At his worst, he was number 2 and people were saying he was finished.

rafa the best
01-26-2010, 11:35 AM
Commander Data thanks for the nice words, it's a comfort to read something like that from someone here.

orangehat
01-26-2010, 11:38 AM
While I'm no Rafito fan, at least he was able to come up with some impossible shots on amazingly crucial points.

What I fear now is the rise of some players (most notably Murray, Cilic and Del Potro) to number 2 or even number 1 (well Mugray has been at number 2 already but anyway). Nole better pick up his act and hoard the number 2 spot at least! :smash:

A_Skywalker
01-26-2010, 11:43 AM
He reached qf in AO, why would someone who reaches QFs in GS and have a good chance to win them retire?
Hes not as strong as before, but in FO he can surely win again.

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 11:43 AM
Commander Data thanks for the nice words, it's a comfort to read something like that from someone here.

+1

It's really nice to see a person here with respect to other players

---------------------

IMO it'a now all about scheduling. Rafa should skip 250 and 500 hardcourt tournaments. Maybe skipping some 1000 tourneys as well ?
Focusing on Grand Slams ?

Instead od Dubai for example maybe it will be wise to play on clay in South America ?

You know, I'm mad for his team. Why the hell he was playing Rotterdam last year ? We all remebber his problems in the final there. Rafa's team have a real problem with scheduling. I believe they will rethink it now

green25814
01-26-2010, 11:44 AM
While I'm no Rafito fan, at least he was able to come up with some impossible shots on amazingly crucial points.

What I fear now is the rise of some players (most notably Murray, Cilic and Del Potro) to number 2 or even number 1 (well Mugray has been at number 2 already but anyway). Nole better pick up his act and hoard the number 2 spot at least! :smash:

What makes Djokovic better than those other guys?

Sophocles
01-26-2010, 11:45 AM
I'm far from being a Nadal fan, but it would be sad for the sport if he were no longer able to compete at the highest level. It is however far too early to draw that conclusion. Even out of form at the end of last year, he was consistently going deep in tournaments. He may have suffered a setback here, but in all honesty it took a huge effort for him to win the A.O. last year and that may in retrospect be seen as the high watermark of his career. Injuries in tennis are common, even for the best players, and plenty of good players have overcome long-term injuries to be in contention at slams on their best surfaces. I don't see Nadal winning another hard-court slam - he did extremely well to win 1 - but I'm certainly not writing him off at R.G. & Wimbledon.

MatchFederer
01-26-2010, 11:51 AM
+1

It's really nice to see a person here with respect to other players

---------------------

IMO it'a now all about scheduling. Rafa should skip 250 and 500 hardcourt tournaments. Maybe skipping some 1000 tourneys as well ?
Focusing on Grand Slams ?

Instead od Dubai for example maybe it will be wise to play on clay in South America ?

You know, I'm mad for his team. Why the hell he was playing Rotterdam last year ? We all remebber his problems in the final there. Rafa's team have a real problem with scheduling. I believe they will rethink it now

Hi mate.

Yeah, I reckon Nadal might have to think about maybe playing just the slams with maybe a 1000 series event leading up to both RG, and the US Open. I mean to be honest, i really just don't know.


Today was a sad day.

Would Rafa even be allowed to significantly cut down his schedule? What even are the rules on this matter...

Nadal said during the match that what was hurting was exactly the same part of his knee that forced him to stop playing last year; this is obviously terrible news if it is true.


***

Maybe Nadal can really overcome all this and get confidence back in his physical well being and mental state, but with each incident like this it seems increasingly more unlikely.

I won't write off a champion like Rafa, and that is what Rafa is; a true champion. Already the legend has won 6 slams and has won Davis Cups and numerous other big tournaments.

I hope for the sake of himself and for tennis that Rafa can somehow come back from this huge adversity and triumph once again.


Peace.

gorgo1986
01-26-2010, 11:52 AM
I do not know if Rafa will be back to his best but there is no point in speculating about something we can't control. What we can do as his fans is support him and appreciate all the great moments in tennis he has given us over the past couple of years. Every player goes through ups and downs, some have problems with an injury, others go through a mental handicap. No one can predict what will happen to Rafa in the future, will he come back and be number 1, will he remain in the top 10?, will he retire? We simply do not know! but what we can control is all our support. I know that no matter if Rafa is number 1 or number 100, I will always support him because that is what a real fan does. And do no be sad for him:hug:, he has accomplished so many things in his young life. There are athletes that have not accomplished 1/100th of what Rafa has done in just 5 years. I for one am proud of what he has accomplished and I am proud of being his fan.

lazybear
01-26-2010, 11:52 AM
No, it's not, if he's smart. He should play only on clay, and grass, and train for those events the whole year. He shouldn't care about rankings. I know it sounds crazy, and probably not possible, but this way, i think he could win another 3-4 Grand Slam titles, maybe even more. But if he keep playing every hard court tournament, his career is in danger.

If the Garros would be the first Slam of the year, he would have won it easily with that kind of form, even without the mental edge, i have no doubt in my mind. I don't think his knee would have injured the same way on clay. (He got outplayed today though, but that's not important in this discussion).

I think he's still the biggest favourite for FO, especially if he plans his schedule smart! He needs to rest at least two months, and built himself in the clay court tournaments, for the FO, if he does that, he can win the French Open, and he can get his confidence back, right before Wimbledon.

Manon
01-26-2010, 11:54 AM
he played well, the first 2 sets were tight and only a few points here or there

dont worry Nadal fans, he'll fly through French Open and many more events in the future

:yeah:

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 11:54 AM
I do not know if Rafa will be back to his best but there is no point in speculating about something we can't control. What we can do as his fans is support him and appreciate all the great moments in tennis he has given us over the past couple of years. Every player goes through ups and downs, some have problems with an injury, others go through a mental handicap. No one can predict what will happen to Rafa in the future, will he come back and be number 1, will he remain in the top 10?, will he retire? We simply do not know! but what we can control is all our support. I know that no matter if Rafa is number 1 or number 100, I will always support him because that is what a real fan does. And do no be sad for him:hug:, he has accomplished so many things in his young life. There are athletes that have not accomplished 1/100th of what Rafa has done in just 5 years. I for one am proud of what he has accomplished and I am proud of being his fan.

Post like this one make my life happier :)
It's so nice to know that the real fans exist
:hug:

aulus
01-26-2010, 11:57 AM
far too early to say.

only 18 months ago, many said the same about Federer.


depends how bad his injuries are.

Manon
01-26-2010, 11:59 AM
What makes Djokovic better than those other guys?

His amazing ass. Btw, wrong question coz orangehat didn't say he's better.

electronicmusic
01-26-2010, 12:00 PM
I'm far from being a Nadal fan, but it would be sad for the sport if he were no longer able to compete at the highest level. It is however far too early to draw that conclusion. Even out of form at the end of last year, he was consistently going deep in tournaments. He may have suffered a setback here, but in all honesty it took a huge effort for him to win the A.O. last year and that may in retrospect be seen as the high watermark of his career. Injuries in tennis are common, even for the best players, and plenty of good players have overcome long-term injuries to be in contention at slams on their best surfaces. I don't see Nadal winning another hard-court slam - he did extremely well to win 1 - but I'm certainly not writing him off at R.G. & Wimbledon.

I completely agree.

Nadal will come back for sure.

paseo
01-26-2010, 12:07 PM
Nadal clay tournaments results will keep him at least in the top four.

scarecrows
01-26-2010, 12:10 PM
exaggeration

losing to Murray on hard court is not a failure
he lost to him in US Open and then won the next slam on hard court. He should be a lock for at least 2 more RGs, a bunch of MS titles and perhaps another slam outside of clay

My bet is that he'll make a good training plan to come at US Open in his best form

linus
01-26-2010, 12:10 PM
Sometimes the biggest enemy is the devil on our deep brain :) Rafa needs to go more steps to complete himself. Dont worry, any time is not late. While someone tends to judge or predict other ppl' routes, take it easy, always Rafa himself goes on the way of his own tennis :hug:

Nole fan
01-26-2010, 12:15 PM
exaggeration

losing to Murray on hard court is not a failure
he lost to him in US Open and then won the next slam on hard court. He should be a lock for at least 2 more RGs, a bunch of MS titles and perhaps another slam outside of clay

My bet is that he'll make a good training plan to come at US Open in his best form

Exactly, losing to Murray is not a failure. And let's not forget he didn't lose the match, he retired. Who knows what would have happened if he had been fit for it, I'm sure he would have given Murray a lot of fight.

Del_Toro
01-26-2010, 12:22 PM
Nadal is done, let's face it.

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 12:23 PM
Nadal is done, let's face it.

argumentation ?

-Valhalla-
01-26-2010, 12:32 PM
Today's retirement confirms my worst suspicions: At the tender age of 23, Rafa's a shot fighter. Things were looking grim after last years RG and I pretty much wrote him off after the WTF, but his surprising results at Abu Dhabi and Doha gave me some hope. Sadly, that last flicker of hope was extinguished tonite. The harsh reality is that his tendonitis isn't going away and will likely get worse. Sure, he'll go on to win some clay and smaller HC and indoor tourneys, but his days as a serious contender at slams is officially over.

It's the end of an era and a sad day for tennis fans :sad:

"The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long."
- Blade Runner

Logical
01-26-2010, 12:36 PM
Matador is struggling with injuries and confidence. As the clay season kicks off, he will be back playing well. He will fight for the French Open on his favourite surface and grab it. He carries that confidence to London and wins Wimbledon. He carries the confidence of both the slams to US open to complete his Career Slam. He will win the remaining slams this season. Vamos El Matador!

madmax
01-26-2010, 12:44 PM
Matador is struggling with injuries and confidence. As the clay season kicks off, he will be back playing well. He will fight for the French Open on his favourite surface and grab it. He carries that confidence to London and wins Wimbledon. He carries the confidence of both the slams to US open to complete his Career Slam. He will win the remaining slams this season. Vamos El Matador!

Nadull is done, deal with it and enjoy those 6 slams he overachieved to win:wavey:

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 12:48 PM
Please guys you're ruining this discussion

Logical
01-26-2010, 12:50 PM
Nadull is done, deal with it and enjoy those 6 slams he overachieved to win:wavey:

He is far from done. Frauderertards celebrate and hope for his retirement every time Matador is injured because he makes them and their player :sad:

Logical
01-26-2010, 12:52 PM
Please guys you're ruining this discussion

Nadal is not done. He went titles less from RG 2007 to Monaco 2008. History will repeat this year.

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 01:05 PM
Nadal is not done. He went titles less from RG 2007 to Monaco 2008. History will repeat this year.

I'm not worried about his loss
I'm concerned about his health condition

Commander Data
01-26-2010, 01:10 PM
He is far from done. Frauderertards celebrate and hope for his retirement every time Matador is injured because he makes them and their player :sad:

Not true. I hope for Rafas healthy return. He is one of the greatest players ever.

You should skip your black-and-white picture of the world ;)

abraxas21
01-26-2010, 01:12 PM
how many of these threads are we going to have? first it was with fed and now it seems to be with nadull.

the answer is no. nadull will start winning again in this clay court season. he was playing great tennis in doha and almost won the title. today he was slightly injured and still managed to trouble quite a bit the number 5 in the world.

born_on_clay
01-26-2010, 01:12 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?p=9559232&posted=1#post9559232 = > a post match interview with Rafa

rogertoogood
01-26-2010, 01:28 PM
Lets wait to hear what the doctors say...........

HarryMan
01-26-2010, 01:34 PM
I don't think Nadal's career is done. He lost in the quarters of a slam, how bad can that be? And besides, Nadal has had recurring knee problems playing on hard courts before, therefore, although no injury is good, I don't think there is anything major to be worried about. What Rafa and his team could do is avoid playing hard court matches as much as possible.

Like, assuming he gets healthy soon, avoid playing some of the upcoming hard court tournaments. Going to South America and playing a few clay tournaments will do him no harm. These are some changes that he can adopt.

Anyway we can talk more on this, once we understand the exact problem after his diagnosis.

Sophocles
01-26-2010, 01:57 PM
There's no way he can avoid hard courts - 70% at least of tournaments are now played on them (which is ridiculous, but anyway). But he could at least tank 1 or 2 of the hard-court Masters and play all optionals on clay & grass.

LaFuria
01-26-2010, 01:59 PM
Nadal should focus all his energy on the clay season where he can still remain dominant. He's going nowhere on hard courts.

I know it will kill his rankings but he might as well focus on his clay court legacy at this point.

thegreendestiny
01-26-2010, 02:01 PM
Meh.. Too early to tell. People were saying Federer was done after last year's AO finals. Look who's back on top?

The human body withers from stress and Rafa's is no exception. However, let's not forget that with it, nature gave us the gift of healing and regeneration. As long as Rafa's mental strength remains intact, I don't really see why people like the OP should be very worried.

your_valentine
01-26-2010, 02:01 PM
Yes, he's done.

kaylee
01-26-2010, 02:01 PM
oh boy here we go again!

Orka_n
01-26-2010, 02:10 PM
Nadal is done. I've been saying that for a long time. Reasons?
1) He's putting heavy pressure on his body with his grinding playing style, so his career was never gonna be a long one.
2) He keeps getting injured because he has a stupid schedule. Also, the clown seems to love sliding on hard courts.
3) There are more dangerous opponents for him now than there was a few years ago. Now he has Murray, Soderling, Del Potro, Cilic... guys who aren't as unreasonably afraid of him as his fellow choking Spaniards.

Sham Kay
01-26-2010, 02:10 PM
No. He'll last, winning a few tournies (probs a couple more GS's) till at least 27, then bow out on a good note.

alter ego
01-26-2010, 02:15 PM
I think his big career on hard courts events could be over. He is not getting any younger and his game, despite his good results on hardcourt events, is still that of a clay court specialist.
Unless he gets a really good draw I don't see him winning another hardcourt master.