Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Which of these things do you think limit freedoms the most?

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 10:05 AM
It's a straight forward question, so besides the poll, I'd like to leave it as open-ended as possible.

Garson007
12-08-2009, 12:45 PM
Physics. ;P

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 01:04 PM
Physics. ;P

:lol:

That's quite true. :p

Midnight Ninja
12-08-2009, 01:14 PM
I said societal norms but in essence all the options are intertwined. Norms dictate the law, education, corporations, governments hierarchies, and also "indoctrinate" people into believing what is right or wrong as an absolute.

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 01:25 PM
I said societal norms but in essence all the options are intertwined. Norms dictate the law, education, corporations, governments hierarchies, and also "indoctrinate" people into believing what is right or wrong as an absolute.

Ah, it seems you are a fellow Chomskyian, or I am I wrong?

Well I should not say Chomskyian, because I don't agree with him on EVERYTHING, but on many things.

:)

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 01:28 PM
Two videos, which some of you may or may no view, but which I think sheds some perspective on the issue:

0g2Gn0kq8QY

And this Debate is simply fascinating, but I think is mostly for fans of Philosophy, so you have been warned :p

WveI_vgmPz8

S0SaqrxgJvw

Jimnik
12-08-2009, 01:50 PM
Big government.

Midnight Ninja
12-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Ah, it seems you are a fellow Chomskyian, or I am I wrong?

Well I should not say Chomskyian, because I don't agree with him on EVERYTHING, but on many things.

:)

I'm the same as you on Chomsky. I agree with a lot of what he says but not everything. He seems to go overboard sometimes in my opinion.

JolánGagó
12-08-2009, 02:27 PM
Goverment is the single most powerful and active force against freedom.

Garson007
12-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Freedom is far too abstract a concept to attribute it's lack of (in terms of maximal magnitude), to any one single human derived, or otherwise, structure or institute. Not to mention that by it's very definition freedom is an impossibility in totality.

It's even more important to note that the meaning of freedom is completely relative to the user. I could for instance chose to be part of a society with governmental structure; forcing total anarchy on me would be an encroachment on my freedom of choice.

Even though this is not part of the topic, it is important to understand the consequences and responsibilities that comes along with extra freedom.

Johnny Groove
12-08-2009, 03:25 PM
Money.

prima donna
12-08-2009, 05:52 PM
An intrusive, gargantuan government.

R.Federer
12-08-2009, 05:55 PM
Mods

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 05:59 PM
Big government.

Since you live in Europe, I would like to know what aspects of government bother you, besides taxation.

I mean, I presume you like the social contract of healthcare, and pensions and so on that make European Governments, in my opinion, less intrusive than the American Government in the sense that you are already covered an need not pay out of your own pocket to private money pursuing institutions.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I certainly agree that Big government greatly reduces freedom, no doubt.

But it seems to me that this is a Ying and Yang issue in the modern society we live in.

The other half of intrusion, I think are corporations. After all, it is the corporate giants that set agenda's, "tell" you what you want and is the system we must go through in order to move in any direction in society, I mean there are practically no other options.

Now I'll add that even though I do not want Government intrusion, I also reject corporate intrusion.

Now, sure one can argue that they offer variety, but the main pursuit they have is to make money, which leads to all type of problems.

Anyway, I'll stop here because I'd like to hear your opinion on big government. :)

Ivanatis
12-08-2009, 06:05 PM
This is mtf. Completely screwed. Means either parents or law. :)

Har-Tru
12-08-2009, 06:50 PM
Define freedom.

Getta
12-08-2009, 06:53 PM
centralised low-performing education system.

It's even more important to note that the meaning of freedom is completely relative to the user.

freedom of thought, that is it.

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 07:11 PM
Define freedom.

Not being restricted nor punished nor forced into doing (or not doing) something you disagree with.

Everko
12-08-2009, 07:13 PM
governmental religion

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 08:19 PM
governmental religion

Aye, it is a very important issue. :yeah:

Governance, and religious views ought to be seperate for the simple matter that many people simply do not believe in certain aspects, or all of religion.

Either way, it seems to me most governments ought to be in control of the people, and thus enact a true democracy, not a system in which you vote for a person to represent you.

It may well be that you agree with 60-70% of what the person you are voting for says, but regardless the remaining 30-40% or more is still a big gap in opinion.

These systems are falsely called Democracies, when in fact, by definition they are a Republic. ;)

Getta
12-08-2009, 09:07 PM
Not being restricted nor punished nor forced into doing (or not doing) something you disagree with.

coping with more demanding situations, freedom is the readiness to recognise ability and re-consider taken-for-granted ideas.

Pfloyd
12-08-2009, 09:10 PM
coping with more demanding situations, freedom is the readiness to recognise ability and re-consider taken-for-granted ideas.

Sure, that's a valid definition. :yeah:

Still, Jose does bring up an interesting point, but ultimately one that is really no too important, because I think we all know, in essence what "freedom" is.

Same goes with other words like "goodness", "evil","slavery" and so on.

Garson007
12-08-2009, 10:00 PM
Either way, it seems to me most governments ought to be in control of the people, and thus enact a true democracy, not a system in which you vote for a person to represent you.
Under the current economic structure in the world, where we are all under the influence of scarcity, this is an impossibility. A possible future where abundance is prevalent we might again settle down into small communities run by direct democracy. This however would give us more problems as well, as there would be no ultimate constitution, unless you fall under some kind of federal system - but then again the democracy will not be direct. :p