Nadal vs. Djokovic - 19 (maybe 20) matches in 3 years - a record ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal vs. Djokovic - 19 (maybe 20) matches in 3 years - a record ?

fsoica
11-17-2009, 04:54 AM
Apart from 2006 RG QF, all their matches were played in '07-'09. If they will meet again in O2, we will have 20 matches in just 3 years.

This is indeed an intense and condensed rivalry.

Anyone knows of something similar during such a short time span between other tennis greats ?

fsoica
11-17-2009, 05:07 AM
It is also very interesting that during only 3 years they have played each other in almost every Masters event (8 out of 9), plus the year end tournament. I guess this will not be equaled too soon:

Indian Wells - 2007 F, 2008 SF
Miami - 2007 QF
Monte Carlo - 2009 F
Rome - 2007 QF, 2009 F
Hamburg - 2008 SF
Madrid - 2009 SF
Canada - 2007 SF
Cincinnati - 2008 SF, 2009 SF
Paris Bercy - 2009 SF
YEC - 2007 RR

If not for Davydenko, they had maybe played in Shanghai 2009 (the eight Masters event of the year, formerly held indoors in Madrid) also...

Farenhajt
11-17-2009, 05:10 AM
They also played in Hamburg 2008 while it still was a Masters event. So it's 9 out of 9.

fsoica
11-17-2009, 05:13 AM
They also played in Hamburg (2007?) while it still was a Masters Event. So it's 9 out of 9.

That's right, I stand corrected.

But we cannot say it is 9 out of 9, because Shanghai it's the eight Masters event of the year, formerly Madrid indoors, and they never played each other in any of those two events.

Tks !

Priam
11-17-2009, 05:23 AM
I think 2nd most is 17 times (wiki).

Mac vs Lendl from 83-85 (12-5 mcenroe). 3 GS finals and 1 semi.

Farenhajt
11-17-2009, 05:27 AM
That's right, I stand corrected.

But we cannot say it is 9 out of 9, because Shanghai it's the eight Masters event of the year, formerly Madrid indoors, and they never played each other in any of those two events.

Tks !

If you include their matches from 2007 and 2008, as you do, then you must go with the Masters schedule of the time. Or you have to say it's "9 out of 10" (or 11, if you count Madrid Outdoors and Madrid Indoors as separate events).

fsoica
11-17-2009, 05:36 AM
If you include their matches from 2007 and 2008, as you do, then you must go with the Masters schedule of the time. Or you have to say it's "9 out of 10" (or 11, if you count Madrid Outdoors and Madrid Indoors as separate events).

No need to argue, but there always have been 9 "Super-9/AMS/Masters 1000" events per year.
Judging by the no. (yearly chronology) of each event they played (indian wells - no.1, madrid 2009 - no.5 etc.), they played in 8 out of 9 events during those 3 years...

If they had played madrid '07 or '08 or shanghai '09, we could have said it is 9 out of 9.

fsoica
11-17-2009, 05:36 AM
I think 2nd most is 17 times (wiki).

Mac vs Lendl from 83-85 (12-5 mcenroe). 3 GS finals and 1 semi.

tks.
Nice find !

n8
11-17-2009, 06:22 AM
Excellent thread. Thanks fsoica for raising this statistic.

It says a lot about the way tour-level draws are constructed. Numbers 2 and 3 can meet in the semis or final, while 3 and 4 can ONLY meet in the final (like 1 and 2 of course). That is why Murray and Djokovic have barely played this year (only once in the final of Miami).

Noleta
11-17-2009, 05:21 PM
Not to mention they're still 22/23 yrs old:)

fast_clay
11-17-2009, 06:41 PM
yeah they are still young enough for novak to bust that head-to-head up a little bit... and i heavily favour novak in '10...

Noleta
11-17-2009, 06:46 PM
yeah they are still young enough for novak to bust that head-to-head up a little bit... and i heavily favour novak in '10...

Not sure about that tbh:shrug:Nadal is still a force,he can't become a bad player overnight:lol:

jonas
11-17-2009, 06:50 PM
Edberg - Becker 6-10 (3-1 in GS) between 1988-90.

Farrow
11-17-2009, 06:52 PM
Not sure about that tbh:shrug:Nadal is still a force,he can't become a bad player overnight:lol:

I don't think it's a completely unreasonable bet though.

Djokovic is better on Hard, and on that surface completely has Nadal's number. He also regularly comes close to defeating Nadal on clay - and with (hopefully) his increased confidence after a good late 09 season, better fitness, he doesn't have a bad chance of turning it around ... particularly if Nadal doesn't fully recover/regain his mojo for the clay season.

Noleta
11-17-2009, 06:56 PM
I don't think it's a completely unreasonable bet though.

Djokovic is better on Hard, and on that surface completely has Nadal's number. He also regularly comes close to defeating Nadal on clay - and with (hopefully) his increased confidence after a good late 09 season, better fitness, he doesn't have a bad chance of turning it around ... particularly if Nadal doesn't fully recover/regain his mojo for the clay season.

True,But i can't see Nadal not fully recovering,getting his mojo back next year,i think he'll have a different schedules too,unless the start of this season:)And hopefully Nole will continue with the hard work,and take the good form to next year:D

fast_clay
11-17-2009, 07:08 PM
Not sure about that tbh:shrug:Nadal is still a force,he can't become a bad player overnight:lol:

yeah... i just think that novak, at cincinatti, took the opportunity to break that 5 match losing streak vs rafa in pretty emphatic fashion... nadal was on a 5 match winning streak that included that epic semi in madrid this year... maybe it was that match spelled the season over for nadal's knees, maybe not, but, djokovic didnt waste the opportunity to get one over a rest-groggy rafa in cinci, nor did he show any mental baggage in bringing the a-game vs nadal in paris...

up until cinci '09, nadal was on a 8-1 w/l record vs djokovic that went back to spring '08, and rafael had owned him on all surfaces - with special note of the trifecta of nadal '08 wins at Hamburg (semi), RG (semi) and Queens (final)... i think that hurt novak as judged by 2nd rd loss to safin at wimbledon next tournament up...

you cant really judge someone properly until you see them operate over a fair amount of time, but, outside GS events, it doesnt appear that djokovic carries any mental baggage head to head at all and can come back no problem with an added sting in the tail...

but you are right.... nadal has not become a bad player overnight... that he still has a mathematical chance of being number one with one tournament to go in '09 while missing wimbledon... well... that is some effort...

still, like they say in boxing, you can get old in just one fight... nadal's body let him down this year and cost him... i think that will take a mental tax next year as the supreme 100% faith in his body can now never be there...

that's why i'll say novak takes him h2h in 2010...

l_mac
11-17-2009, 07:36 PM
They've only played 4 finals in that time, 2 QFs, a TMC RR and one DC match. The rest (11) have been semi-finals. Amazing how often they land in the same half, and both make the latter stages.

l_mac
11-17-2009, 07:43 PM
you cant really judge someone properly until you see them operate over a fair amount of time, but, outside GS events, it doesnt appear that djokovic carries any mental baggage head to head at all and can come back no problem with an added sting in the tail...


But you could also argue that Rafa has lost heavily to Novak before - on hardcourts, in SFs of MS events - and come back on his stronger surfaces without any mental baggage.

Kiman
11-17-2009, 09:27 PM
But you could also argue that Rafa has lost heavily to Novak before - on hardcourts, in SFs of MS events - and come back on his stronger surfaces without any mental baggage.
That is obvious. Rafa does not know about any mental baggage to any player. Guy was probably lobotomized in that section. Even in second set at that Paris beating, I could see believe in his eyes. That is why I like the guy, not tennis.

fast_clay
11-18-2009, 12:03 AM
But you could also argue that Rafa has lost heavily to Novak before - on hardcourts, in SFs of MS events - and come back on his stronger surfaces without any mental baggage.

yes... i think this much was known long ago... but unlike djokovic, in my opinion, i dont think it took a series of results or time to suss that out about nadal...

coonster14
11-18-2009, 10:47 AM
it shall be 20 now indeed, nole and rafa are both drawn in group B for WTF!!! :)

MIMIC
11-18-2009, 10:49 AM
I didn't even realize how often they've played :eek:

zcess81
11-18-2009, 11:00 AM
That is obvious. Rafa does not know about any mental baggage to any player. Guy was probably lobotomized in that section. Even in second set at that Paris beating, I could see believe in his eyes. That is why I like the guy, not tennis.

That is why he is one of my favourite players. His belief is just unreal. One of the best fighters/competitors of all time for sure.

alter ego
11-18-2009, 12:18 PM
Amazing ! I got to say the Fed-Roddick rivalry has just 21 episodes in 8 years, and those 2 guys have been in the top 10 since 2002.

Dini
11-18-2009, 12:21 PM
7 meetings (or more) in a year is unreal.

n8
11-18-2009, 12:23 PM
Amazing ! I got to say the Fed-Roddick rivalry has just 21 episodes in 8 years, and those 2 guys have been in the top 10 since 2002.

Good point. Nadal and Djokovic could actually play twice next week, in the round robin and then again in the final. Unlikely, I know, but still a possibility.

Certinfy
11-18-2009, 12:54 PM
Amazing :).

freeandlonely
11-19-2009, 10:25 AM
I think the most amazing part is still his w/l ratio against fellow top. He is...something like 13-7 to Federer, 14-6 to Djokovic, 7-2 to Murray. I dislike Nadull but that's really amazing(even considering the wins on clay, still very amazing)

Interesting to see if they can turn it around(very hard for each, in my opinion).

Also interesting to see Del Potro already made it close.(3-4 I guess)

Maybe they need to not go deep on clay, to have a chance.:angel:

Grunge
11-19-2009, 11:23 AM
I think the most amazing part is still his w/l ratio against fellow top. He is...something like 13-7 to Federer, 14-6 to Djokovic, 7-2 to Murray. I dislike Nadull but that's really amazing(even considering the wins on clay, still very amazing)

Interesting to see if they can turn it around(very hard for each, in my opinion).

Also interesting to see Del Potro already made it close.(3-4 I guess)

Maybe they need to not go deep on clay, to have a chance.:angel:

There is nothing interesting in bolded part. The biggest curse of Djokovic and Federer is the fact that they are very good clay court players, so they reach semi-final/final on a regular basis in clay events. And after that, they have to face the best clay court player ever - almost unbeatable Nadal. It hurts their h2h with Rafa badly.
On the other hand, Del Potro rarely reach final stages of clay events, so there is no big chance for him to meet Nadal there. That's why he has pretty good h2h with him - almost all their matches were on hard court.
If Del Potro make more semi-finals/finals on clay events in future, be sure that his h2h with Nadal will drop significantly. :wavey:

Sophocles
11-19-2009, 11:53 AM
I think the most amazing part is still his w/l ratio against fellow top. He is...something like 13-7 to Federer, 14-6 to Djokovic, 7-2 to Murray. I dislike Nadull but that's really amazing(even considering the wins on clay, still very amazing)

Interesting to see if they can turn it around(very hard for each, in my opinion).

Also interesting to see Del Potro already made it close.(3-4 I guess)

Maybe they need to not go deep on clay, to have a chance.:angel:

It is an amazing record, but bear in mind what might happen if he carries on playing after his body's given out. Borg had excellent head-to-heads with most of the leading players of his era - but then he retired at 26.

pica_pica
11-19-2009, 05:32 PM
I always love this rivalry...full of youthful passion and hot blood...and the quality of tennis never fails to amaze :worship: It's not as frequently mentioned as Nadal-Federer rivalry because (1) Novak isn't as famous as Federer, who has 15 slams and dominates for a long time; (2) Novak and Rafa do not play much in slams, no slam finals

Farenhajt
11-19-2009, 11:47 PM
Ellen Ripley summed it up in Alien 3: "You've been in my life so long I can't remember anything else."