Paris-Bercy could switch to a 32 draw next year [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Paris-Bercy could switch to a 32 draw next year

Lurking
11-16-2009, 11:40 AM
They are asking the ATP board next week to ask for a 32 draw, with a 250 tournament taking place along side that week at an unknown location being used as a bribe to get what they want.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article6917647.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2


Jean-Francois Caujolle, tournament director of the BNP Paribas Masters, singled out Andy Murray for special praise at his end-of-event review and disclosed that next year there could be a dramatic change to the format in Paris. There is a powerful case, Caujolle believes, for the tournament to become a 32 rather than 48 man draw - "for it is quite normal that the draws become progressively smaller in order to arrive towards the Masters where there are only eight players."

He said Murray had been a victim of the current numbers and the consequent pressure it places on scheduling with only one court at the Palais Omnisport of a standard required for an event of this prestige. "[Murray] ended one match on Wednesday at 1.45am and there had been a real problem with the scheduling that day because we had six matches to play on he Centre Court," Caujolle said. The problem had been exacerbated by Marat Safin's three set loss to Juan Martin Del Potro, after which there was an extended retirement celebration for the Russian that put another spanner in the works.

"The next day Murray had to play on Court No 1 (against Radek Stepanek) and sincerely I believe he would not have lost that match if it had been on the Centre. He was a victim of those problems we have with a tournament with 48 players. He was extremely decent and said nothing about it. He just said the other player was better than him."

Caujolle revealed that his plans for a reduction in draw size would be put to the ATP Board next week. He also declared that an ATP 250 tournament would be scheduled in the same week as Paris next year - "so we are not only guaranteeing the existing jobs of the players but creating new ones," he said. "I trust it will be possible."


Same jist here..

http://www.elconfidencial.com/ultima-hora/bercy-quiere-tener-jugadores-proximo-20091115.html


París, 15 nov (EFE).- Los organizadores del Másters 1.000 de Bercy pedirán a la ATP pasar de 48 a 32 jugadores el año próximo, dada su presencia en el final de temporada, afirmó hoy el director del torneo, Jean-François Caujolle.

"Creemos que es lo lógico en el final de temporada. Ir reduciendo el número de tenistas a medida que pasa el tiempo hasta llegar a los ocho del torneo de Maestros. Ya se hace así en el golf", señaló.

Con esta modificación, el torneo pretende mejorar la calidad de los partidos en un momento en el que los mejores tenistas del circuito llegan fatigados al final de temporada.

Además, con un cuadro final más liviano se evitarían algunos de los problemas organizativos derivados de ser un torneo en pista cubierta.

"Algunos de los mejores del mundo han tenido que jugar en la pista secundaria, que aunque es muy buena no es igual que la central", aseguró Caujolle.

Puso el ejemplo del británico Andy Murray, cuarto del mundo, que logró su clasificación para octavos de final en un partido que acabó casi a las 2 de la madrugada y, al día siguiente, tuvo que jugar en la pista secundaria.

"Creo que si hubiera jugado ese partido en la central no habría perdido", dijo el director del torneo.

Para apoyar su petición, los organizadores de Bercy propondrán a la ATP que en las mismas fechas de su torneo se celebre un Másters 250 al que puedan acudir aquellos que queden fuera del de París.

"De esta forma preservamos el trabajo de los tenistas y la calidad del espectáculo", dijo.

Caujolle se quejó que con la actual disposición del torneo, los tres primeros días de competición están llenos de partidos con tenistas de la zona media baja del ránking. EFE lmpg/ea


Following the glory hunters instead of what's good for the sport in the long term as usual.

Typically a 32 draw has 3 WC's, 4 qualify spots and two two SE slots as well and as any of the 8 SF's from Valencia or Basel won't be able to participate in qualifying it's likely that only the top 23 won't have to qualify if they want to participate.

LucasArg
11-16-2009, 11:51 AM
The top players would still play 5 matches.

latso
11-16-2009, 11:58 AM
It's a good idea to shorten he draw, but perhaps they should also elongate the courts a bit lmao :D

Johnny Groove
11-16-2009, 12:03 PM
They should speed the court back up.

oranges
11-16-2009, 12:05 PM
:spit: Why not make it 28 and play only the superTB to win every match. Talk about masters losing prestige and why.

mr_burns
11-16-2009, 12:08 PM
sounds good to me...don't need the byes then

paseo
11-16-2009, 12:11 PM
I don't like this idea. If bercy can't accommodate a 1000 tournament, then they should move it somewhere else. The court 1 in bercy is a joke for an ATP 1000. There are ATP 500 tournaments that have a much better court 1. The ATP should deny their proposal and tell them to make a better court 1, if they can't, then they should downgrade bercy to a 500 tournament or at least lose their mandatory status.

scoobs
11-16-2009, 12:14 PM
If they can't stage this event with the full required drawsize to the level that an event of this prestige requires, then it should be moved to another venue, another location entirely if necessary.

rocketassist
11-16-2009, 12:43 PM
Very sad if true, this used to be a really good, high quality indoor tournament and now it's a slow shitty MM with what looks like becoming a 32 draw.

Masters' prestige is gone.

Puschkin
11-16-2009, 01:39 PM
I don't like this idea. If bercy can't accommodate a 1000 tournament, then they should move it somewhere else.
Exactly, but not to China. :o

nanoman
11-16-2009, 01:41 PM
Caujolle is a fucking A-hole for taking credits away from Stepanek. True or not, that's something you just can not say as a tournament director.

el tenista
11-16-2009, 01:55 PM
The top players would still play 5 matches.

That's not the point. If they have a 32 players draw, top players will play on Monday, too. They don't have to wait for their possible opponents to play their 1st round match.

philosophicalarf
11-16-2009, 02:12 PM
:spit: Why not make it 28 and play only the superTB to win every match. Talk about masters losing prestige and why.

Paris has been a second class masters for a decade now. Look at the list of winners in that time - aside from Safin, none of them were top tier.

Goldenoldie
11-16-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't like this idea. If bercy can't accommodate a 1000 tournament, then they should move it somewhere else. The court 1 in bercy is a joke for an ATP 1000. There are ATP 500 tournaments that have a much better court 1. The ATP should deny their proposal and tell them to make a better court 1, if they can't, then they should downgrade bercy to a 500 tournament or at least lose their mandatory status.

This

Goldenoldie
11-16-2009, 02:16 PM
Give Monte Carlo back their full Masters Status, which they should never have lost in my view, and downgrade Paris.

Everko
11-16-2009, 02:18 PM
Paris has been a second class masters for a decade now. Look at the list of winners in that time - aside from Safin, none of them were top tier.

Does that matter? It's thee same points

Goldenoldie
11-16-2009, 02:19 PM
And I'd rather not have some French outsider making excuses for Murray, thanks very much. If there are any excuses to be made he can make them himself, or his fans can do it for him.

alfonsojose
11-16-2009, 02:25 PM
I think it's a good step forward to shorten the season. After the U.S. Open one master is enough.

Arkulari
11-16-2009, 04:18 PM
Joke of a tournament :rolleyes:

Echoes
11-16-2009, 04:25 PM
Could someone tell me why there has been so much discussion about this tournament these last few years (court length, surface change, best of 3 finals like every M1000 and now reduced draw), while the tournament has existed for more than 20 years without any problem of that kind? :(

rocketassist
11-16-2009, 04:38 PM
Paris has been a second class masters for a decade now. Look at the list of winners in that time - aside from Safin, none of them were top tier.

And?

Henman's victory was one of the most impressive Masters Series wins. Six opponents, best of five final, Grosjean, Davydenko, Kuerten, Federer, Roddick and Pavel- six TMS champions.

Rusedski, Ivanisevic, Davydenko, Grosjean are all fine players.

xargon
11-16-2009, 04:42 PM
I believe he would not have lost that match if it had been on the Centre
---------------------------------------------
Poor Murray doesn't like to play on court 1. What next?

Matt01
11-16-2009, 04:43 PM
I think it's a good step forward to shorten the season. After the U.S. Open one master is enough.


What exactly does reducing the draw have to do with shortening the season and the number of master series tournaments? :confused:

Johnny Groove
11-16-2009, 04:51 PM
Give Monte Carlo back their full Masters Status, which they should never have lost in my view, and downgrade Paris.

This is a good idea.

latso
11-16-2009, 07:40 PM
Could someone tell me why there has been so much discussion about this tournament these last few years (court length, surface change, best of 3 finals like every M1000 and now reduced draw), while the tournament has existed for more than 20 years without any problem of that kind? :(
because of changing the rules, it' simple

most big guns tank this tournament becaue of the mandatory tournaments they have to play during the year and the following much more important master finale.

It's a miracle they are all still alive, thank G

W!MBLEDON
11-16-2009, 07:54 PM
just speed the court back up

/thread

TheBoiledEgg
11-16-2009, 08:00 PM
bring back carpet on wood
transport the minsk ice rink

Certinfy
11-16-2009, 08:21 PM
Bring back carpet baby :rocker2:

Echoes
11-16-2009, 08:39 PM
because of changing the rules, it' simple
most big guns tank this tournament becaue of the mandatory tournaments they have to play during the year and the following much more important master finale.


OK sorry for my ignorance. I didn't know these rules changed.

But the Masters (whatever you call it now) have always followed Bercy. So why do present-day players tank it now while past players did not?

TheBoiledEgg
11-16-2009, 08:56 PM
OK sorry for my ignorance. I didn't know these rules changed.

But the Masters (whatever you call it now) have always followed Bercy. So why do present-day players tank it now while past players did not?

cos its no longer carpet cos of one spanish moonballer :o :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

rocketassist
11-16-2009, 09:43 PM
cos its no longer carpet cos of one spanish moonballer :o :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

To be fair it wasn't just him, Federer was just as responsible. Both complained and asked for a change to the surface.

What pisses me off the most is it still says 'Gerflor'. If that's Gerflor I live in a house of sticks.

Echoes
11-16-2009, 10:22 PM
It seems to be in their favour. And still they tank it. So I'll have to ask my question again.

djb84xi
11-17-2009, 05:54 AM
I for one don't believe that a Masters should've been in Paris anyway, considering they already play host to a Grand Slam. The facility at Paris-Bercy is not suitable for a 1000 Masters event. Take a look at Shanghai. Very beautiful facility and plenty of space to meet the needs of a prestigious event. If Paris-Bercy can't upgrade their facilities to meet the demands of a top tier event, then they have no business hosting it, no matter how much money they offer. :o

Puschkin
11-17-2009, 05:58 AM
Take a look at Shanghai. Very beautiful facility and plenty of space to meet the needs of a prestigious event.
The facilities may be great, but the emptiness of the stands was shocking in Shanghai.

Give Monte Carlo back their full Masters Status.
:yeah:

philosophicalarf
11-17-2009, 11:51 AM
And?

Henman's victory was one of the most impressive Masters Series wins. Six opponents, best of five final, Grosjean, Davydenko, Kuerten, Federer, Roddick and Pavel- six TMS champions.


Not a coincidence the top players generally don't win Paris, nor that this was the only masters for Henman, Berdy, Tsonga and Grosjean, nor that this is the only masters Federer has never won.

Bluntly: Paris is a masters only in name. In terms of prestige it's a 500 for me, given that most of the field doesn't give a monkeys. For a player to really impress, they need to back it up with a win elsewhere, as Davy did with his superb Miami win. He'd already won in Paris, but it meant very little given who he had to beat: Rochus, Tursunov, Ancic, Robredo, Hrbaty. As usual, most of the top10 withdrew or tanked.

philosophicalarf
11-17-2009, 12:00 PM
cos its no longer carpet cos of one spanish moonballer :o :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The reduction in carpet is actually a long-term thing which started in the 90s, and has merely continued since. The biggest reduction in carpet events happened 1997-2000 (17 events in 96, 7 in 2000), the current reduction (7 in 2006 to zero now) merely completes the process.

Ivanatis
11-17-2009, 12:31 PM
would be a good decision

bur honestly P-B could switch to a 8 draw and I wouldn't give a shit

oranges
11-17-2009, 04:46 PM
Not a coincidence the top players generally don't win Paris, nor that this was the only masters for Henman, Berdy, Tsonga and Grosjean, nor that this is the only masters Federer has never won.

Bluntly: Paris is a masters only in name. In terms of prestige it's a 500 for me, given that most of the field doesn't give a monkeys. For a player to really impress, they need to back it up with a win elsewhere, as Davy did with his superb Miami win. He'd already won in Paris, but it meant very little given who he had to beat: Rochus, Tursunov, Ancic, Robredo, Hrbaty. As usual, most of the top10 withdrew or tanked.

You are more than exaggerating. By your description, you'd think the top 8 have long been determined since the entire top 10 either tanks or misses it altogether. In reality, it's where those battles for the last spots are fought, making it generally more interesting for me than IW and Miami, would-be slams with their two-week BS, when all masters have in effect been reduced to glorified MMs. The entire field is supposed to attend and that's it as far as prestige goes anywhere.

Lee
11-17-2009, 04:52 PM
OK sorry for my ignorance. I didn't know these rules changed.

But the Masters (whatever you call it now) have always followed Bercy. So why do present-day players tank it now while past players did not?

It was not mandatory for top players to play all the super9 or masters before and lots skip this tournament unless they were fighting for the #1 spot or a place in the finals. So they didn't have to come to the tournament and tank.

Lee
11-17-2009, 04:53 PM
If the tournament doesn't have to facility to hold a draw larger than 32, it should not be an 1000 event. :shrug:

Echoes
11-18-2009, 05:39 PM
It was not mandatory for top players to play all the super9 or masters before and lots skip this tournament unless they were fighting for the #1 spot or a place in the finals.

In the early 2000's, yeah. But in the nineties, every top player did it. And didn't tank..

star
11-18-2009, 10:29 PM
If they can't stage this event with the full required drawsize to the level that an event of this prestige requires, then it should be moved to another venue, another location entirely if necessary.

:yeah:

They've had this set up for years. I think it's the cost more than anything.

It's kind of too bad not to give more lowly ranked players the oppportunity to win these poinst.

iriraz
11-19-2009, 07:44 AM
Most of the top players are with their mind at the world tour finals or the break between seasons so it`s tough to take this tourney that seriously.Federer has won how many times the masters final while in Paris two weeks before has lost early in first 2-3 rounds.
I don`t think it has that much to do with Paris but if it was any other tourney just a week before the tour finals and the end of the season it would have been the same

kengyin
11-19-2009, 08:43 AM
all the other masters are 6 round tournaments, so it doesnt make sense to downgrade paris to 5 rounds, but then the paris tournament isnt really necessary, theres already RG, maybe they should replace the tournament with a grass court tournament held elsewhere