9 November 1989. One of the Greatest Days in History. Berlin Celebrates... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

9 November 1989. One of the Greatest Days in History. Berlin Celebrates...

Jimnik
11-09-2009, 12:20 PM
World leaders in Berlin to mark fall of Wall (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5A723920091109)

http://www.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20091109&t=2&i=12253075&w=450&r=2009-11-09T121036Z_01_BTRE5A80XTT00_RTROPTP_0_GERMANY-WALL


TIMELINE: The rise and fall of the Berlin Wall (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5A81TB20091109?virtualBrandChannel=11604)

(Reuters) - The Berlin Wall was breached 20 years ago on November 9, 1989. Here are some key dates in the history of the Berlin Wall.

- June 15, 1961. As a growing number of East Germans stream into West Berlin amid worsening conditions and fears the border may one day be closed, Communist East German leader Walter Ulbricht declares: "Nobody intends to build a wall." Thousands read between the lines and the exodus accelerates.

- Aug 13, 1961. After midnight, East German troops begin erecting what Ulbricht calls an "anti-fascist protection barrier."

- Aug 15, 1961. Creating an enduring image, East German soldier Conrad Schumann is photographed leaping over a barbed wire section of the divide into the West.

- Aug 19, 1961. Wall claims first life as man falls to his death trying to climb down from his top-floor apartment in East Berlin's Bernauerstrasse to pavement below in West Berlin.

- Aug 24, 1961. Date of what is generally accepted as first killing by border guards after Wall went up. Guenter Litfin, 24, believed shot dead as he swam across the river Spree.

- Aug 17, 1962. Eighteen-year-old Peter Fechter bleeds to death in no man's land after being shot trying to escape. Western cameramen record the scene for nearly an hour before guards take away his body.

- June 26, 1963. U.S. President John Kennedy rides in an open-top limousine through West Berlin. "Ich bin ein Berliner" (I am a Berliner) he declares in a pledge of solidarity.

- March 11, 1985. Mikhail Gorbachev, 54, becomes leader of Soviet Union and embarks on course of cautious reforms.

- June 12, 1987. Near Brandenburg Gate, U.S. President Ronald Reagan demands: "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this Wall."

- Jan 1989. Popular protests against East German government become bolder and more widespread, but leader Erich Honecker insists: "The Wall will stand in 50, even 100 years."

- Sept 10, 1989. Hungary breaks ranks with Warsaw Pact and officially opens border with Austria to East Germans, creating first chink in Iron Curtain. Thousands of East German "tourists" go West.

- Oct 7, 1989. East Germany marks 40th anniversary. East Germans hail visiting Gorbachev as liberator with chants of "Gorby! Gorby!."

- Oct 18, 1989. Honecker forced to resign "on health grounds" amid growing protests.

- Nov 4, 1989. Half a million demonstrate for democracy in East Berlin.

- Nov 9, 1989. Honecker's successor Egon Krenz tells party all East Germans can go to the West from following day if they apply for an exit visa. Mix-up over announcement means that, within minutes, East Berliners besiege border guard posts. By midnight hundreds of thousands breach Wall and pour into the West.

Jimnik
11-09-2009, 12:25 PM
http://europa.eu/abc/12lessons/images/content_berlin_wall.jpg
http://library.msstate.edu/libguidefiles/phillips/Berlin%20Wall%20Freedom.jpg
http://www.rankopedia.com/CandidatePix/29738.gif

Jimnik
11-09-2009, 12:33 PM
1_eCVhCGYwE&

Jimnik
11-09-2009, 12:37 PM
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xK30k2WTxY0&

jonathancrane
11-09-2009, 12:40 PM
Great day :yeah:

Good to remind that scum like Thatcher and Mitterand were against the reunification

Action Jackson
11-09-2009, 12:43 PM
Kennedy was a doughnut. Honecker must be turning in his grave.

Action Jackson
11-09-2009, 12:44 PM
Good that he is as well. Crane, you are dissing Jimi's hero.

Jimnik
11-09-2009, 12:51 PM
A lot of credit goes to this man:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Mikhail_Gorbachev_1987.jpg

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/gor0/large/gor0-009.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-1986-0421-010%2C_Berlin%2C_XI._SED-Parteitag%2C_Gorbatschow%2C_Honecker.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Gorbachev_Bush_19900601.jpg

The greatest Russian politician of the 20th century. :worship:

ClaudiuS
11-09-2009, 12:51 PM
Margot Honecker believes that the DDR is still alive at this time. :D

Well, some East Germany residents are still nostalgic about those times, where the STASI had a wire logged on inside their asses. Probably they loved it that way. :shrug:

Har-Tru
11-09-2009, 12:55 PM
Great anniversary. Couldn't help laughing when I read a massive fence had been erected in Brandenburg Square for the U2 concert that commemorates this date.

Jimnik
11-09-2009, 01:02 PM
Great day :yeah:

Good to remind that scum like Thatcher and Mitterand were against the reunification

Good that he is as well. Crane, you are dissing Jimi's hero.
Indeed, definitely not Maggie's greatest moment. Too much of a Euro-skeptic and she strongly opposed the EU. Certainly didn't like Kohl but she did work well with Gorbachev.

No surprise her and Mitterrand were not invited.

JolánGagó
11-09-2009, 01:09 PM
rabid commies to trasbin of H-I-S-T-O-R-Y.

Reagan- best German politician of all times. Vamos Ronnie! :rocker2:

jonathancrane
11-09-2009, 01:28 PM
rabid commies to trasbin of H-I-S-T-O-R-Y.

Reagan- best German politician of all times. Vamos Ronnie! :rocker2:

He was a dutch

Bilbo
11-09-2009, 02:21 PM
Mauer Mob - 33,000 people recreate the Berlin wall

http://www.mauer-mob.com/home.php

Joolz
11-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Kennedy was a doughnut.

It would've never occurred to any German to understand it that way.
Least of all in Berlin, where the pastry in question isn't even called "Berliner" but "Pfannkuchen".
The whole thing is a silly myth.

Echoes
11-09-2009, 02:54 PM
Kennedy was a doughnut.

Yeah.:D And a murderer as well. :(

The greatest Russian politician of the 20th century.

HEEEELP !!!!!!!!!

rocketassist
11-09-2009, 04:31 PM
Thatcher was scum full stop, not just for one thing like this.

Saumon
11-09-2009, 04:35 PM
I lived in Berlin at the time. Probably my earliest big memory.

JolánGagó
11-09-2009, 04:45 PM
Thatcher: Best British Prime Minister Ever

Vamos Maggie! :rocker2:

Sunset of Age
11-09-2009, 04:50 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: Great read, thanks for the memories!

A lot of credit goes to this man:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Mikhail_Gorbachev_1987.jpg

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/gor0/large/gor0-009.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-1986-0421-010%2C_Berlin%2C_XI._SED-Parteitag%2C_Gorbatschow%2C_Honecker.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Gorbachev_Bush_19900601.jpg

The greatest Russian politician of the 20th century. :worship:

Absolutely. The Russian guy who finally had the guts to stop all of this ridiculous Cold War nonsense. :worship: :worship: :worship:

Joolz
11-09-2009, 05:29 PM
Yeah, those were pretty crazy times in Berlin...
I remember how the headmaster of my school cancelled all classes and told us to head over to Brandenburg Gate and see history being made. I also remember public transport breaking down completely and the West city so packed with people from the East, wanting to have a look at the Kudamm and the shops, that it was impossible get through anywhere... It was chaos. But very happy chaos. :)

MisterQ
11-09-2009, 05:30 PM
1_eCVhCGYwE&

This was amazing, quite moving to watch. Thanks. :)

zeleni
11-09-2009, 06:24 PM
It is is amusing to see how Russian mugs, like Gorbachev, or drunkard morons, like Yeltsin, or gangsters, like Berezovsky, are worshiped, while Putin is demonized...;)

Ivanatis
11-09-2009, 06:57 PM
catfight between Lötzsch and Lengsfeld :spit: priceless

JolánGagó
11-09-2009, 07:20 PM
It is is amusing to see how Russian mugs, like Gorbachev, or drunkard morons, like Yeltsin, or gangsters, like Berezovsky, are worshiped, while Putin is demonized...;)

Putin is a rabid KGBetchik and an imperialist, a man with zero understanding of the concept of liberty of the individual and an imperialist with utter disregard for the rights of other nations. He doesn't need to be demonized, his deeds speak volumes.

Echoes
11-09-2009, 08:22 PM
It is is amusing to see how Russian mugs, like Gorbachev, or drunkard morons, like Yeltsin, or gangsters, like Berezovsky, are worshiped, while Putin is demonized...;)

Yeah precisely. The Oligarchs' rise began under Gorbatchev's regime. We shouldn't forget that. He had no control over them.

Putin is a rabid KGBetchik and an imperialist, a man with zero understanding of the concept of liberty of the individual and an imperialist with utter disregard for the rights of other nations. He doesn't need to be demonized, his deeds speak volumes.

Which deeds?

I suggest you're talking about Chechnya, whose population voted against independence, while nationalists expelled 250 000 non-Vainakh between 1991 and 1994 and killed thousands of them and are ready to take children as hostages like in Beslan for example. That's surely a nation. :rolleyes:

Sunset of Age
11-09-2009, 08:32 PM
Yeah precisely. The Oligarchs' rise began under Gorbatchev's regime. We shouldn't forget that. He had no control over them.

That's true, but at least he had the guts to acknowledge that the Soviet Union - and its satellite states - system was a Dead End route, and that change was thoroughly needed. He surely supported the changes by being a great diplomat between the two cold war-blocks and for that he should get all the credits he deserves.
Eventually, things within Russia went beyond his control, yes.

Which deeds?

I suggest you're talking about Chechnya, whose population voted against independence, while nationalists expelled 250 000 non-Vainakh between 1991 and 1994 and killed thousands of them and are ready to take children as hostages like in Beslan for example. That's surely a nation. :rolleyes:

:eek: :o :(

Echoes
11-09-2009, 08:51 PM
All this is true, I'm sorry (Unless you convince me I'm wrong).

As for Gorbatchev, well I would say like him as a man. He certainly had great ideas for Russia but I'm afraid, at the end of the day, his policy failed.

Sunset of Age
11-09-2009, 08:55 PM
All this is true, I'm sorry (Unless you convince me I'm wrong).

I believe you, I'm just shocked. Didn't know this at all. :tape:

As for Gorbatchev, well I would say like him as a man. He certainly had great ideas for Russia but I'm afraid, at the end of the day, his policy failed.

Yes, I think we agree on that for most of it. I guess one can say is that he let it get out of hand eventually.

gulzhan
11-10-2009, 02:09 AM
One of the greatest day was May 9th 1945. Or May 8th as you celebrate it. Millions of people died in that war. And that wall was just a wall. A country got split, then united, in shitty 40 years or something, less than a life of one generation, big deal. You think people and countries should do whatever comes in their sick minds like their idiotic super race and suffer no consequences?

That is the LEAST Germany should have paid.

ClaudiuS
11-10-2009, 02:22 AM
One of the greatest day was May 9th 1945. Or May 8th as you celebrate it. Millions of people died in that war....You think people and countries should do whatever comes in their sick minds like their idiotic super race and suffer no consequences?

That is the LEAST Germany should have paid.

How much should Germany "pay" according to you?

And that wall was just a wall. A country got split, then united, in shitty 40 years or something, less than a life of one generation, big deal.

Big deal? What does the word dictatorship means to you...form of authoritarian government performed by right wingers only? :shrug: So the extreme right wingers make shit actions, and the actions made by the rest are just "big deal". Any kind of act against the Freedom of people, in general deserves to be condemned. Not just because of the certain country's history of their past rulers.

Har-Tru
11-10-2009, 10:45 AM
One of the greatest day was May 9th 1945. Or May 8th as you celebrate it. Millions of people died in that war. And that wall was just a wall. A country got split, then united, in shitty 40 years or something, less than a life of one generation, big deal. You think people and countries should do whatever comes in their sick minds like their idiotic super race and suffer no consequences?

That is the LEAST Germany should have paid.

You're stupid. Very.

JolánGagó
11-10-2009, 12:04 PM
I suggest you're talking about Chechnya, whose population voted against independence, while nationalists expelled 250 000 non-Vainakh between 1991 and 1994 and killed thousands of them and are ready to take children as hostages like in Beslan for example. That's surely a nation. :rolleyes:

So your point to defend Putin is he was right with all the atrocities commited by his men in Chechnya because someone else did smth similar first :eek:

At the end of the day, his policy failed.

Yes, as his policy was to reform comunism to make it workable. Some things are just impossible.

One of the greatest day was May 9th 1945. Or May 8th as you celebrate it. Millions of people died in that war. And that wall was just a wall. A country got split, then united, in shitty 40 years or something, less than a life of one generation, big deal. You think people and countries should do whatever comes in their sick minds like their idiotic super race and suffer no consequences?

That is the LEAST Germany should have paid.

Oh really... how much should Russia pay :rolleyes: for the tens of million dead from other nations in the Russian gulags and during the Soviet rule over half Europe?

You're stupid. Very.

She's just a rabid racist and a frustrated apparatchik.

gulzhan
11-10-2009, 12:06 PM
How much should Germany "pay" according to you?
Big deal? What does the word dictatorship means to you...form of authoritarian government performed by right wingers only? :shrug: So the extreme right wingers make shit actions, and the actions made by the rest are just "big deal". Any kind of act against the Freedom of people, in general deserves to be condemned. Not just because of the certain country's history of their past rulers.

Unlike you I know what that means. And yet, a human life means much more. Leave politics to politicians. Normal people should value everything by the cost of human lives. How many lives German agression cost to the World? Those were husbands and wives, parents and children. Now compare that to the number of lives the communist years cost to the Eastern Europe. Yes, many, I don't argue, but no comparison.

You're stupid. Very.

All I am saying the TITLE of the thread is offensive. To many nations, I think. Surely to Russians. If you call that stupid, fine. If Jimnik changes title to somethings like "A Memorable Day...." I've no problem with the thread. But calling it "one of the greatest"? Soldiers who died at that Great Patriotic War, including my 18 years old great uncle, didn't ask for Germany to start invasion on June 22nd.

gulzhan
11-10-2009, 12:23 PM
So your point to defend Putin is he was right with all the atrocities commited by his men in Chechnya because someone else did smth similar first :eek:

Yes, as his policy was to reform comunism to make it workable. Some things are just impossible.

Oh really... how much should Russia pay :rolleyes: for the tens of million dead from other nations in the Russian gulags and during the Soviet rule over half Europe?

She's just a rabid racist and a frustrated apparatchik.

Russia won the second World War. For its mistakes Russian Empire paid its price. As to the Eastern Europe, it was run by their own communists. In fact, Czechs may tell how Germans, not only Russians, came to Prague in 1968. Hav eno idea of spelling but Honnecker, Chaushesku, Gusak and all the others were locals, not dressed-up Russians.

I told one Latvian guy who accused Russians for all the sins of communism that it was the fault of Latvia :lol: Boy, his face was funny! I said my Russian eSeRs (the party of socialists-revolutioners) were so close to overthrowing the dictatorship of bolsheviks in March 1918 and then a whole division of Latvian shooters (? not sure that's the right word but literally it is) under comandership of Lazis arrived and saved Lenin and his gang. The Latvian guy told me-- my grandfather was one of the "shooters" It's different. They had ideas and fight for them! :haha: As Russian revolutioners didn't have ideas back in 1917. Many of those who set up the bolsheviks dictatorship died first, in 1937.

Do you know who set up ChK? The future NKVD/KGB? A ployak Dzerzhinski. Half of CzK were Latvians. Who was Stalin? A Gerogian (yes, as Saakashvilli).

Do you know how many Russians died during the communists years?! They were the first victims.

The argument happened in 1992 when we had the first Congress that made all the changes happen. I am sure most of Latvians have different views now. History puts everything in its places.

It was Russia who decided to change regime and to dissolve Soviet Union, to let Eastern Europe free. Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Afanasiev, Popov, Sakharov, Sobchak, all those great Russian guys who did work on changes.

If the only source of your knowledge is Fox News, then better ask and listen to those who lived through those events you are talking about.

Har-Tru
11-10-2009, 01:04 PM
All I am saying the TITLE of the thread is offensive. To many nations, I think. Surely to Russians. If you call that stupid, fine. If Jimnik changes title to somethings like "A Memorable Day...." I've no problem with the thread. But calling it "one of the greatest"? Soldiers who died at that Great Patriotic War, including my 18 years old great uncle, didn't ask for Germany to start invasion on June 22nd.

I have no idea what you're on about. It is a great day because finally the Eastern half of Europe was set free of the oppression and tyranny of an authoritarian system that denied them the most basic rights.

gulzhan
11-10-2009, 01:19 PM
I have no idea what you're on about. It is a great day because finally the Eastern half of Europe was set free of the oppression and tyranny of an authoritarian system that denied them the most basic rights.

OK, let it be a great day, not one of the greatest at least. Our liberation from oppression started at XX congress of CPSU or at XVII Communist Pary Conference when Yeltsin critisized the Politburo and was not arrested. We don't call it the "greatest days in the history". And our population is as much as Europe. OK, maybe not population but definitely territory.

Yes, I am pissed off.

First the "World championships" in Nebraska, now the "greatest day in the history". Look at the Globe.

Action Jackson
11-10-2009, 01:22 PM
The USSR is dead and no it was not solely the Russians that caused this to happen.

JolánGagó
11-10-2009, 01:41 PM
Russia won the second World War. For its mistakes Russian Empire paid its price.

If that's what matters, Germany "paid its price" too.

As to the Eastern Europe, it was run by their own communists. In fact, Czechs may tell how Germans, not only Russians, came to Prague in 1968. Hav eno idea of spelling but Honnecker, Chaushesku, Gusak and all the others were locals, not dressed-up Russians.

This is utterly laughable. Those were mere mannequins for the Soviets, the true maters of the whole region thanks to the power of their tanks and nukes. One needs no further proof than what happened when local communists and people tried to change things (Budapest 56, Prague 69 anyone?)

Do you know who set up ChK? The future NKVD/KGB? A ployak Dzerzhinski. Half of CzK were Latvians. Who was Stalin? A Gerogian (yes, as Saakashvilli).

So what?


Do you know how many Russians died during the communists years?! They were the first victims.

I know. If you cared to read before replying you'd see I asked you how much should Russia pay for all the Gulag victims, including Russians of course.

It was Russia who decided to change regime and to dissolve Soviet Union, to let Eastern Europe free. Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Afanasiev, Popov, Sakharov, Sobchak, all those great Russian guys who did work on changes.

Spare me the laughs. It wasn't "Russia" who decided anything. It was Eltsin who wanted to definitely get rid of Gorbachev by dissolving the Union, thus making its president utterly redundant. As per Eastern Europe freedom, well it was the people of those nations who did it, "Russia's" role was just refraining from acting by decision of Gorbachev, not of "Russia".

If the only source of your knowledge is Fox News, then better ask and listen to those who lived through those events you are talking about.

Im refraining from replying such a blatant outburst of ignorance.

Fox News :haha:

fast_clay
11-10-2009, 02:29 PM
Gorbachev stopped the practice of jamming and the radios could for the first time freely interview dissident politicians or officials without them facing persecution or imprisonment.

radio free europe... maybe the most unheralded part of this chapter in history...

ClaudiuS
11-10-2009, 03:29 PM
Unlike you I know what that means. And yet, a human life means much more. Leave politics to politicians. Normal people should value everything by the cost of human lives. How many lives German agression cost to the World? Those were husbands and wives, parents and children. Now compare that to the number of lives the communist years cost to the Eastern Europe. Yes, many, I don't argue, but no comparison.

You can't measure torture, killing, genocides, etc :cuckoo: From what I've known those acts are dreadful at any kind of number.

So Germans should suffer a lot more, because they killed more people? You're talking just like those bastard politicians and top militaries in the nazi regime, condemning a people because they're scum at your point of view because of the past, and this is the funny part, with the same actions that you consider an aggression (considering the wall just as a WALL, and not giving a shit about human rights of the rest, only the ones that you suffered) it's funny that you despise them so much.

JolánGagó
11-10-2009, 03:45 PM
You can't measure torture, killing, genocides, etc :cuckoo: From what I've known those acts are dreadful at any kind of number.

So Germans should suffer a lot more, because they killed more people? You're talking just like those bastard politicians and top militaries in the nazi regime, condemning a people because they're scum at your point of view because of the past, and this is the funny part, with the same actions that you consider an aggression (considering the wall just as a WALL, and not giving a shit about human rights of the rest, only the ones that you suffered) it's funny that you despise them so much.

Ask her how much should Russia pay the thousands ethnic Germans deported by the commies from the Volga region to -oh!- Kazakhstan.

Bilbo
11-10-2009, 04:56 PM
wow, gulzhan

didn't know you hate Germany so much :eek:

Bilbo
11-10-2009, 04:58 PM
btw as far as i know germany has one of the best reputations in the world. i even read it has the best. not bad for a country which was 60 years ago in shambles.

i wonder what russia did in the last 60 years :scratch: they barely recovered.

jonathancrane
11-10-2009, 05:05 PM
Well, Russia was under one of the worst totalitarism regime ever until the 90's
Germany was lucky enough to get rid of that long before (at least half of Germany)

Echoes
11-10-2009, 07:05 PM
So your point to defend Putin is he was right with all the atrocities commited by his men in Chechnya because someone else did smth similar first :eek:


That's called fight against terrorism.



Yes, as his policy was to reform comunism to make it workable. Some things are just impossible.


Yeah if you want, from an ideological point of view. In reality he let the Oligarchs begin to rob the country before they control it under the regime of the drunkard.

gulzhan
11-11-2009, 01:37 AM
The USSR is dead and no it was not solely
the Russians that caused this to happen.

Russia did that. It was Russia who wanted a change in its life. Liberaion of Eastern Europe happened because Russia decided it didn't want spend money on controlling it anymore. West was only spectator.

Gorbachev started the process. Thanks a lot to him for that :worship: He was soft liberal but believed in socialism. He started with freedom of speech :yeah: And he couldn't believe it what he heard back from Russian people.

I was there and I lived there, from 1985 to 1992. I remember how hard it was to first say what you really think. I remember one teacher trying to shut me off when I told Solidarnost in Poland was 100% right. And the other one who got so mad at me when I told that the students demonstrations in Almaty in 1986 were reaction to the forceful appointment of Russian as First Secretary of Communist Party of Kazakstan. A Russian who has never set his foot on Kazak land.

You can't even imagine how hard it is to say to your classmates the obvious true things and hear them saying crap back to you just because a teacher is present. Repeating and repeating the mass media crap. Your posts here remind me of those old times :haha:

Russian people were changing things from inside. All they needed was not to be afraid to be sent to jail for words. Gorbi promised that and kept his word until the end of his power. 7 years was enough.

I remember as Yeltsin critisised Gorbachev for half-reforms first and got thrown from his position as the Head of Communist Party in Moscow. Everyone was watching what will happen to him, if he will end up in jail or deported. It didn't happen and it gave everyone more strength to fight the communists in all the country. Yeltsin decided to go for election into the Congress from Moscow, the election district No. 1. Yekaterinburg told him several times-- come to our district, we'll elect you by 100%! He said -- no, I want to show that even the spoiled and privileged Moscow wants change! Then Yekaterinburg (it's 2 Mln people we are talking about!) failed first round of elections by damaging voting bulletens just in case Yeltsin won't get through in Moscow and could be offered as a candidate in those districts where elections failed. But Yeltsin won in Moscow by more than 80%! Hear me here-- that happened in March 1989 when people believed they've been watched!

I remember the first Congresses in 1989-90. Wow! The first reality show that Gorbachev invented :lol: He didn't stop live broadcasting no matter what.

Oh, well, whom do I talk to :sad: A bunch of kids who never did anything in their lives. All you can be proud of that you happened to be born in a different country. I can see you clapping and not letting Sakharov to talk openly about the crimes of communism for the first time in 70 years.

Afanasiev, one of the guys who made it possible for Berliners to remove the Berlin Wall, called you (people who post anti-Russian cliche here) "passive- aggressive majority".

And no, I don't hate Germans. Again, what I said is that having a Wall dividing the country into two parts for 30 years was the least price Germany was made to pay for its deeds during the WWII. I think most Germans know that.

gulzhan
11-11-2009, 01:49 AM
btw as far as i know germany has one of the best reputations in the world. i even read it has the best. not bad for a country which was 60 years ago in shambles.

i wonder what russia did in the last 60 years :scratch: they barely recovered.

:eek:

How old are you?

gulzhan
11-11-2009, 02:00 AM
Ask her how much should Russia pay the thousands ethnic Germans deported by the commies from the Volga region to -oh!- Kazakhstan.

:lol:

Again, how old are you? The Germans who were deported from Volga are exactly those Russians you are trashing in your posts. I am an ethnic Kazak who lived in Russia so what? My people suffered from many decisions of communists. I won't list it here, I've been posting too much here anyway but trust me, morbid things were done to my people. We all, ethnic Russians, Ukraniens, Germans from Volga, Tatars and all the other 200 ethnicities who lived in Russian Empire and then in Soviet Union suffered from the communist regime. For 70 years. And Russians suffered not less than any other ethnicity. We all tried to fight regime as much as we could. Sakharov, Solzhenitsyn, Suleimenov-- those were our people. And the most brave and strong people tried to do something no matter what consequnces they could suffer. My classmate was thrown out of law school for arguing in calss that private ownership is good for economics. Again, I can give hundreds of examples here, but what's the point? You don't understand our country. Not a clue.

Making a picture of evil Russians-Ivans threatening half of Europe with AK and then being put on knees by West-US-Stallone might have been profitable :shrug: for Holywood :unsure: back 40 years ago :haha:

Now it looks not just dumb, it's offensive.

Bilbo
11-11-2009, 09:34 AM
And no, I don't hate Germans. Again, what I said is that having a Wall dividing the country into two parts for 30 years was the least price Germany was made to pay for its deeds during the WWII. I think most Germans know that.

this is bullshit. why should people pay for something who never lived during that time?

you are just jealous germany is a better country than where you live and have lived. keep going. it's at least funny :lol:

JolánGagó
11-11-2009, 10:22 AM
The Germans who were deported from Volga are exactly those Russians you are trashing in your posts.

Im "trashing" Putin and the rabid commies in power then and, in disguise, now. Im not "trashing" Russia, it's your problem if you identify Russia with Putin and his ilk.

ou don't understand our country. Not a clue.

As much as you repeat that crap it won't become true. Your country? Last time I ckecked you're a Kazak in ethnicity and passport, not a Russian. I know little of your country, yes. About Russia, most probably not less than you, and no Im not telling you the story of my life as much as you try.

Making a picture of evil Russians-Ivans threatening half of Europe with AK and then being put on knees by West-US-Stallone might have been profitable :shrug: for Holywood :unsure: back 40 years ago :haha:

50 years ago Rusia did invade Eastern Europe and stayed there as master as long as it could. Previous, Russia had already invaded and annexed the Baltics, invaded Finland and signed a secret non-agression pact with Nazi germany. As per now, just ask the Georgians.

So yes, Russia IS a danger for Europe. Not the Russian people per se but those they elected to rule them, a bunch of imperialistic minded former commies KGBetchiks. Facts are facts, sweetie, Im sorry about that.

Echoes
11-11-2009, 12:37 PM
As per now, just ask the Georgians.


You mean those who occupied South Ossetia and Abkhazia after the fall of the USSR?

JolánGagó
11-11-2009, 02:01 PM
You mean those who occupied South Ossetia and Abkhazia after the fall of the USSR?

"Occupied"? you must be on expired crack, Abkhazia and Ossetia were already part of Georgia during USSR and previous.

documentate yourself.

Echoes
11-11-2009, 03:20 PM
"Occupied"? you must be on expired crack, Abkhazia and Ossetia were already part of Georgia during USSR and previous.


What?

During USSR only.

JolánGagó
11-11-2009, 04:10 PM
documentate please, enough ridiculing yourself.

Black Adam
11-12-2009, 10:08 AM
Apparently Sarkozy was there 20 years ago when they took down the wall........... they say he might have also been in that stable in Nazareth on a certain December 25th too.

Echoes
11-12-2009, 11:02 AM
documentate please, enough ridiculing yourself.

Maybe Stalin never incorporated Abkhazia into Georgia in 1931, after all. I'm probably living in Orwell's Oceania.


Apparently Sarkozy was there 20 years ago when they took down the wall........... they say he might have also been in that stable in Nazareth on a certain Dember 25th too.

Just awesome. :haha:

HoorayBeer
11-14-2009, 11:23 AM
I wish I could have been up close and center that day to experience Hasselhoff history.