Why does Fed not bother returning serve? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Why does Fed not bother returning serve?

Sean
11-07-2009, 04:36 PM
All this year Fed has just stood on baseline netting returns, waiting for sets to reach tiebreaks.

His inability/unwillingness to return serve nearly cost him Wimbledon title, and will prevent from winning WTF any slams next year unless he sorts it.

LEGENDOFTENNIS
11-07-2009, 04:53 PM
his return of serve hasn't been too great

iriraz
11-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Waiting to get to a tiebreak is completely wrong.In most cases Federer tries to get a break and then sits on it holding serve throughout the set.

alter ego
11-07-2009, 05:12 PM
He's too arogant to bother.

FedFan_2007
11-07-2009, 05:13 PM
Federer has never been a really great ROS.

BlueSwan
11-07-2009, 05:15 PM
His return of serve is definitely not what it used to be, which is one of the key reasons why he barely ever dishes out bagels anymore. He used to bagel opponents left and right, but not so anymore.

Fed Express
11-07-2009, 05:17 PM
In 9/10 matches he only goes for, and gets, one break. Why give up all the extra energy? Look at Nadal. Trying to get every game... His matches last 10x as long and he is killing his body.

Federer's return is good. But if he doesn't really care to break he gets sloppy.

Jaz
11-07-2009, 05:44 PM
Federer has alot of qualities....

When he does return a serve, it does land deep. So his return of serve is very good.

Otherwise, there really is no reason he should change his returning position too much like Nadal and Murray do - that's the reason that they have so many problems with return "depth".

gulzhan
11-07-2009, 05:50 PM
Federer is obsessed with saving his efforts. He believes that's key to a long successful injury-free tennis life :p

Mechlan
11-07-2009, 05:55 PM
His return of serve is definitely not what it used to be, which is one of the key reasons why he barely ever dishes out bagels anymore. He used to bagel opponents left and right, but not so anymore.

This.

:lol: at some of the posts. No, Federer does not have a great ROS compared to the other top players (look at the stats). Yes, Federer's return used to be great. Not in aggressiveness, but he was unequaled at getting returns in play. This is one facet of his game that has dropped a lot in the past 2 years and that I don't think he's ever going to get it back.

MrChopin
11-07-2009, 06:01 PM
This.

:lol: at some of the posts. No, Federer does not have a great ROS compared to the other top players (look at the stats). Yes, Federer's return used to be great. Not in aggressiveness, but he was unequaled at getting returns in play. This is one facet of his game that has dropped a lot in the past 2 years and that I don't think he's ever going to get it back.

This pretty much sums it up.

Fed's FH return is still quite good. His BH return has always been pretty defensive. Previously, his speed (and thus defense) and ability to take control with just one FH were enough to put immediate pressure on servers. If he got it in and pushed it deep, chances were he'd win the point.

He still plays it defensively, but now he lacks the speed and FH to consistently take immediate control. Plus he misses the block-backs a lot more than he used to, probably a slowing reaction-time thing or an attempt to keep returns low and thus from floating and then getting crushed past his deteriorating speed.

Roddickominator
11-07-2009, 06:02 PM
He doesn't really need to. He can dish out the Sampras special 6-4 sets almost at will.

star
11-07-2009, 06:05 PM
Federer is obsessed with saving his efforts. He believes that's key to a long successful injury-free tennis life :p

This.

It's a page out of Sampras's book. Bored me then. Bores me now

oliverbwfc
11-07-2009, 06:09 PM
His inability/unwillingness to return serve will prevent him from winning WTF any slams next year unless he sorts it.

No

tangerine_dream
11-07-2009, 06:19 PM
He doesn't really need to. He can dish out the Sampras special 6-4 sets almost at will.
Yes. For the past year or so I think it's been Roger's priority to do just enough to win matches comfortably and not throw himself 100% into anything unless he's facing a player he considers a real threat (count them on one hand). Watching Roger win matches on cruise control is even more dull than when he truly dominated an opponent. Even the tiebreaks are boring because it all comes down to nerves and more often than not the other guy is going to fold like a lawnchair on the big points and Roger knows this. So it never feels like he's in danger even when he's down a break or set.

madmax
11-07-2009, 06:21 PM
I just think he is not really bothered these days to win every one and single game...Sampras was the same at the end of his career - getting one break, usually at the end of the set, or taking care of things at the tiebreak. Fed uses pretty much the same attitude - not saying it's very likeable, but I guess it's pretty effective strategy to conserve your energy and prolong your professional game.

Dini
11-07-2009, 06:24 PM
Yes. For the past year or so I think it's been Roger's priority to do just enough to win matches comfortably and not throw himself 100% into anything unless he's facing a player he considers a real threat (count them on one hand). Watching Roger win matches on cruise control is even more dull than when he truly dominated an opponent. Even the tiebreaks are boring because it all comes down to nerves and more often than not the other guy is going to fold like a lawnchair on the big points and Roger knows this. So it never feels like he's in danger even when he's down a break or set.

I don't think he intentionally doesn't return well "to save energy". He's just not as good on the return any more. :shrug: A lot of them are netted and more slices than he'd like go long. Most things in his game are worse than they were a couple of years ago - apart from his serve (that seems to get better with age).

Sure opponents get nervous against him. But they also ask the question and he comes up with the answers. People easily simplify things and say that all his opponents choke, but they so easily forget about the backhand passes he comes up with set points and match points down. Is that down to the opponents getting nervous too?

Roddickominator
11-07-2009, 06:29 PM
I don't think he intentionally doesn't return well "to save energy". He's just not as good on the return any more. :shrug: A lot of them are netted and more slices than he'd like go long.

I think it could be both really. Federer doesn't feel the urgent need to break serve....therefore his returns are a bit lackadaisical. With this mindset, his return indeed will become worse because he isn't practicing a better return as consistently.

Corey Feldman
11-07-2009, 06:30 PM
the old Sampras style to save energy

then again Pete retired young

tangerine_dream
11-07-2009, 06:36 PM
I don't think he intentionally doesn't return well "to save energy". He's just not as good on the return any more. :shrug: A lot of them are netted and more slices than he'd like go long.
I don't know if lazy would be the right word but Roger's ROS seems lazy to me.

Sure opponents get nervous against him. But they also ask the question and he comes up with the answers. People easily simplify things and say that all his opponents choke, but they so easily forget about the backhand passes he comes up with set points and match points down. Is that down to the opponents getting nervous too?
No, not everybody chokes every big point against Roger, but with these lower-ranked players he can get away with playing a lot worse than he normally does and still walk away with a comfortable 6-4 6-4 win.

Dini
11-07-2009, 06:40 PM
I think it could be both really. Federer doesn't feel the urgent need to break serve....therefore his returns are a bit lackadaisical. With this mindset, his return indeed will become worse because he isn't practicing a better return as consistently.

Could well be the case. But I think it has something to do with age also. He's not as sharp as he was during his peak years, for example 2006; that goes for more than just the ROS: his forehand (can be inconsistent and his major downfall in matches), his movement (which affects his subsequent shots), his volleys.

He gets pushed to the limit far more than people are willing to give credit for though (his match against Chiudinelli today is a great example [Fed was 3 BPs down - saved them all with winners], was down an SP and saved it with a backhand pass]) yet some will say that he bent down for Roger and choked. :shrug: Nadal gets a lot of that shit too when he's playing his countrymen - when in fact the reason Nadal wins those matches is because he's plain better. Don't think that can be changed though because a lot of players choke in general so it's just easy to assume without having watched the match/es. But anyway that's off topic. :p

Dini
11-07-2009, 06:47 PM
I don't know if lazy would be the right word but Roger's ROS seems lazy to me.

Yeah they look lazy. That I agree with. But he still is hitting the backhand chip return but misses more of those these days (some go too long and easy ones end up in the net). I do think that has something to do with natural decline.


No, not everybody chokes every big point against Roger, but with these lower-ranked players he can get away with playing a lot worse than he normally does and still walk away with a comfortable 6-4 6-4 win.

Nearly all the top players get away with playing shite against lower ranked opponents. That's nothing new. Why Federer is singled out is a bit beyond me. :scratch:

RafitoGoat
11-07-2009, 07:50 PM
That is cool how Federer lives the charmed life.

andylovesaustin
11-07-2009, 08:22 PM
He's too cool for the room?:cool:

Sean
11-11-2009, 08:33 PM
Again lazy arsed Fed, not trying on return games and now finds himself a set all with Benneteau, ive gotta get up early for work and wanted to watch Murray Blake match instead I have to watch Fed clowning around.

Corey Feldman
11-11-2009, 08:40 PM
Again lazy arsed Fed, not trying on return games and now finds himself a set all with Benneteau, ive gotta get up early for work and wanted to watch Murray Blake match instead I have to watch Fed clowning around.Yep, he's a fucking idiot and a half

incredible arrogence just waiting for opponents to hand games to him, or tie breaks.

Hazem
11-11-2009, 08:40 PM
Federer is obsessed with saving his efforts. He believes that's key to a long successful injury-free tennis life :p

This is

Arkulari
11-11-2009, 08:47 PM
don't worry about that, he'll do better in London :p

Sunset of Age
11-11-2009, 08:48 PM
Has been playing ultra-passive pushing shit ever since the USO semifinal... :shrug:
No surpirse, here.

Sean
11-11-2009, 08:52 PM
All this fraud can do is hit errors and aces.

Nidhogg
11-11-2009, 09:11 PM
The Bercy CC is way too slow for current Roger to thrive on. It's not your traditional slick indoor surface where there's lots of winners. This bouncy court is mainly about outmanouvering your opponent from the back off the court, and Bennetau has done that more to Federer than the other way around.

Haelfix
11-11-2009, 09:23 PM
His first serve return is still pretty deadly. He still gets a ton of neutral or nearly neutral rallies. I'd take his first serve return over anyone else in mens history, even if it isn't as good as it was in his heyday. Like Sampras, he eventually gets a read on the players serve and its lights out from there. See Karlovic at Wimbledon for just how deadly this neutralization of the serve really is.

The problem is his 2nd serve return, which is pretty weak for such a great player. He can't attack on it, and since the balls lack pace his block backs have nothing on them, leaving a ball that is easily killable.

I don't think its on purpose at all, he is just rusty or not as good at it as he used to be.

ChinoRios4Ever
11-11-2009, 09:35 PM
Federer is obsessed with saving his efforts. He believes that's key to a long successful injury-free tennis life :p

Spot on. :yeah:

PiggyGotRoasted
11-11-2009, 09:49 PM
His first serve return is still pretty deadly. He still gets a ton of neutral or nearly neutral rallies. I'd take his first serve return over anyone else in mens history, even if it isn't as good as it was in his heyday. Like Sampras, he eventually gets a read on the players serve and its lights out from there. See Karlovic at Wimbledon for just how deadly this neutralization of the serve really is.

The problem is his 2nd serve return, which is pretty weak for such a great player. He can't attack on it, and since the balls lack pace his block backs have nothing on them, leaving a ball that is easily killable.

I don't think its on purpose at all, he is just rusty or not as good at it as he used to be.

this may be the real reason he has struggled against nadal in the past.

Piggy's first serve is so shit it is like a player ranked 100's second serve, hence federer cannot just block it back like normal having to instead not attack it therefore giving up that rally.

FlameOn
07-08-2012, 02:35 PM
His returning in the Wimbly final how it is this thread needs a bump :p.

swebright
07-08-2012, 02:47 PM
He can't use his BH. He usually just block it and put it back into play. Foerhand, he might wack it a little bit.

Corey Feldman
07-08-2012, 02:53 PM
slicing 84mph 2nd serves is just woeful from Fed, woeful

Pratik
07-08-2012, 02:53 PM
His BH return has just been terrible.