Malisse & Wickmayer will take an appeal [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Malisse & Wickmayer will take an appeal

Montego
11-05-2009, 07:00 PM
I have just heard that Malisse and Yanina Wickmayer were both suspended by Flemish Doping Tribunal for one year for failing to appear on anti-doping tests (Wickmayer three times in a row).

Anyone knows something more about this ?

Montego
11-05-2009, 07:02 PM
I have found this:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/wickmayer-malisse-escape-bans-in-doping-row/story-e6frg7mf-1225790366392

But my Belgian mate told me that they were suspended today :confused:

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/tennis/091105_schorsing_Malisse

Certinfy
11-05-2009, 07:02 PM
Wickmayer :eek: :eek:

EDIT: I hope that article is true.

Truc
11-05-2009, 07:03 PM
I've read that on Belgian websites too:
http://www.rtbf.be/sport/tennis-suspension-dun-pour-yanina-wickmayer-et-xavier-malisse-56438
He missed a test and didn't give his schedule twice.

Truc
11-05-2009, 07:06 PM
I have found this:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/wickmayer-malisse-escape-bans-in-doping-row/story-e6frg7mf-1225790366392

But my Belgian mate told me that they were suspended today :confused:Yes, that's what all the articles in French say, it's not contradictory.

Certinfy
11-05-2009, 07:08 PM
Very unlucky for Wickmayer, her last few months in term of results have been stunning.

anon57
11-05-2009, 07:09 PM
Yes, Malisse missed one test and failed to fill in his whereabouts twice and he'll be suspended for a year, he's still got a chance to go to the TAS and have the ban overturned though.

tangerine_dream
11-05-2009, 07:10 PM
The fallout from the Agassi book begins. Google translation:

Malisse suspended tennis and Wickmayer
BRUSSELS -- The Flemish Doping Tribunal has the tennis Yanina Wickmayer and Xavier Malisse suspended Thursday for one year. Wickmayer had three editions the whereabouts of his residence failed to comply with the anti-doping authorities. Malisse twice committed the violation but also missed a check.

Nathaliia
11-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Very unlucky for Wickmayer, her last few months in term of results have been stunning.
these things aren't contradicting either :tape:

I feel bad for Malisse, one of my fave players.... shame

TankingTheSet
11-05-2009, 07:16 PM
At the beginning of the year when anti-doping labs got the contract to go after the tennis world, there was speculation that giving your whereabouts while playing in different places all over the world week after week with missed flights and different schedules depending how far you go in a tournament would be a problem -- I feel the players are very unlucky to be treated in this way, even if they tried their best missing some of these tests would be a statistical likelyhood.

tennisfan856
11-05-2009, 07:21 PM
Malisse may just hang up the rackets then. As for Wickmayer, a stunning blow to a promising career.

Purple Rainbow
11-05-2009, 07:21 PM
Preposterous punishment.

philosophicalarf
11-05-2009, 07:21 PM
If you miss 3 in a row, it's deliberate. After 1 you'd be very careful, after 2 you'd be completely anal about it.

There's going to be a lot more of this.

Lee
11-05-2009, 07:26 PM
Thanks to Agassi, I think Malisse will have a hard time overturning the decision. Really sorry for him.

Compare to other sports, tennis players have a much tougher to know their own whereabouts so far ahead of time. WADA should really review about the special situations and not applying the same rules for all amateur and professional sports.

PinkFeatherBoa
11-05-2009, 07:28 PM
What a bunch of s***, poor Malisse (and Wickmayer).

Truc
11-05-2009, 07:39 PM
Compare to other sports, tennis players have a much tougher to know their own whereabouts so far ahead of time. But they can update their whereabouts daily depending on where they are now. I don't get what is so tough about it. They just need to enter their hotel and say they will be there from 7 to 8 am. It's not that big a deal.

They already had two warnings and did it again, it seems incredibly careless from them.

RickDaStick
11-05-2009, 07:41 PM
Malisse can still play ATP and ITF tournaments, is that correct? This agency has nothing to do with the ATP. They can probably suspend him from the davis cup team and perhaps touraments in Belgium but i dont see how his affects his status with the ATP.

Aenea
11-05-2009, 07:44 PM
But they can update their whereabouts daily depending on where they are now. I don't get what is so tough about it. They just need to enter their hotel and say they will be there from 7 to 8 am. It's not that big a deal.

They already had two warnings and did it again, it seems incredibly careless from them.

As far as I know players are obligated to give details about their whereabouts like a month in advance. Sometimes it is hard to tell today where exactly you are gonna be say on 12/02.
I feel bad for them being suspended for that.

anon57
11-05-2009, 07:44 PM
But they can update their whereabouts daily depending on where they are now. I don't get what is so tough about it. They just need to enter their hotel and say they will be there from 7 to 8 am. It's not that big a deal.

They already had two warnings and did it again, it seems incredibly careless from them.Except that the system they were supposed to be logging onto to fill in the whereabouts wasn't working properly. And neither of them received the warnings since the letters were posted to their home adress and they didn't receive them because they were elsewhere playing tennis.

Lee
11-05-2009, 07:48 PM
Except that the system they were supposed to be logging onto to fill in the whereabouts wasn't working properly. And neither of them received the warnings since the letters were posted to their home adress and they didn't receive them because they were elsewhere playing tennis.

Very efficient way of communicating. :p Shouldn't the agency at least send certified mail, i.e. make sure the recipient received the letters?

madmanfool
11-05-2009, 07:49 PM
Except that the system they were supposed to be logging onto to fill in the whereabouts wasn't working properly. And neither of them received the warnings since the letters were posted to their home adress and they didn't receive them because they were elsewhere playing tennis.

I thought there claims were like this:

Wickmayer: Got a letter sent at home with details on how to fill it in, but never read it since nobody lives at their home. Then her login didn't work for a long time.

Malisse: Was playing a challenger and had no access to internet so he couldn't fill it in.

I could be mistaken, but I thought it was like that.

Truc
11-05-2009, 07:55 PM
As far as I know players are obligated to give details about their whereabouts like a month in advance. Sometimes it is hard to tell today where exactly you are gonna be say on 12/02.They have to give a schedule in advance, but they can update it depending on where they are then, of course. The whole tour would be already suspended otherwise.

Zverev explained it in detail in his blog once, if you speak German:
http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article152476/Neue-Doping-Bestimmungen-sind-heftig.html
Short-term changes are possible, they just need to log in daily then. He says he gives a time very early or very late so he's sure to be in his hotel room during the tournaments.

Iván
11-05-2009, 07:58 PM
wikmayer is playing bali

withdrawn?

anon57
11-05-2009, 07:59 PM
I thought there claims were like this:

Wickmayer: Got a letter sent at home with details on how to fill it in, but never read it since nobody lives at their home. Then her login didn't work for a long time.

Malisse: Was playing a challenger and had no access to internet so he couldn't fill it in.

I could be mistaken, but I thought it was like that.I remember reading when the cases were first reported that at least for one of them they only later received warning letters about their whereabouts not being in order because the warning letters were sent to their home adres and they only got them much later because they weren't at home but on the road. Though my memory isn't that great:o:p so it could be that the article was indeed referring to the letters with the login details that Wickmayer didn't receive in time

Bilbo
11-05-2009, 07:59 PM
cya Malisse

Montego
11-05-2009, 07:59 PM
wikmayer is playing bali

withdrawn?

AFAIK she is out of Bali, but I am not sure

Noleta
11-05-2009, 09:15 PM
That's very harsh:sobbing:

networthy
11-05-2009, 09:32 PM
Very unlucky for Wickmayer, her last few months in term of results have been stunning.

As for Wickmayer, a stunning blow to a promising career.

In my mind, Wickmayer's failure to appear for anti-doping tests three times in a row would go a long way in explaining those "stunning" and "promising" results.

Yes, I'm fully aware that doping is a taboo subject and that many fans would prefer not to acknowledge it but we'll all be better off when people get their heads out of the sand.

FiBeR
11-05-2009, 09:40 PM
:retard: stupid rule :smash:

:sad:

Cloudygirl
11-05-2009, 09:46 PM
In my mind, Wickmayer's failure to appear for anti-doping tests three times in a row would go a long way in explaining those "stunning" and "promising" results.



she didn't fail to appear for anti-doping tests. She has never missed a test and she has always tested negative. She failed to fill in her whereabouts 3 times.

Malisse failed to attend one test.

philosophicalarf
11-05-2009, 09:46 PM
Wickmayer: Got a letter sent at home with details on how to fill it in, but never read it since nobody lives at their home. Then her login didn't work for a long time.


She didn't have access to a phone to ask for her password, or update her whereabouts? Even with the knowledge that a 3rd missed test would mean a ban? I've no idea what happened with Malisse, but her excuses sound ludicrous.


As to the general point about the harshness of the punishment - it has to be this way, or else people can just dope with impunity, and skip tests. By the time the testers catch up with them, it's passed out of their system.

Ivanatis
11-05-2009, 09:48 PM
can't stand Malisse, so I don't really care
feel a bit sorry for Nina though

Cloudygirl
11-05-2009, 09:48 PM
She didn't have access to a phone to ask for her password, or update her whereabouts? Even with the knowledge that a 3rd missed test would mean a ban? I've no idea what happened with Malisse, but her excuses sound ludicrous.



She didn't fail to attend a test

Wickmayer was accused of failing on three occasions to fulfill the ADAMS (Anti-Doping Administration and Management System) under which athletes are obliged to tell national anti-doping authorities where they will be at a chosen hour each day for a three-month period.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g8-AIolXA-FLzG2GfZRf4-W0G_Zg

Malisse did fail to attend a test.

Chiakifug
11-05-2009, 09:58 PM
Yep, Wicky has been forced to pull out of Bali, she was in an easy position to get to the semis but she isnt allowed play.

TMJordan
11-05-2009, 10:01 PM
fuck u baldassi

Sapeod
11-05-2009, 10:03 PM
Wickmayer had some great results in the last two months or so. Now we know why.

Cloudygirl
11-05-2009, 10:05 PM
Why?

She didn't fail a test or fail to attend for a test.

What she did do is fail to notify them of where she would be for a chosen hour each day. I don't think breaking those kind of rules is acceptable and some sort of sanction should be imposed but a year ban is very harsh.

tennisfox
11-05-2009, 10:06 PM
These same rules apply to all other sports that have signed up to this thing. I don't see why tennis players should be gone easy on. There are plenty of ways they can update and if they were having problems logging in then they could always have phoned up, sent a text, emailed. If I was having problems logging in to a system like that I would be straight on the phone but that's just me. Obviously things in Tennis have been very lax in the past.

I guess tennis is suddenly going to start enforcing rules. I wonder how young Gasquet will fare...

Anyway I bet a bunch of players are suddenly checking they've filled in their whereabouts.

Ivanatis
11-05-2009, 10:11 PM
Wickmayer had some great results in the last two months or so. Now we know why.

http://la.metblogs.com/files/2009/07/how-about-a-nice-cup-of-shut-the-fuck-up.jpg

Sapeod
11-05-2009, 10:16 PM
http://la.metblogs.com/files/2009/07/how-about-a-nice-cup-of-shut-the-fuck-up.jpg
No, I'm allergic.

Action Jackson
11-05-2009, 10:29 PM
I don't have a problem with the rule of a player being suspended for missing 3 tests, there are many examples in other sports of athletes getting suspended for this. Kederis, Thanou, Rasmussen and Ohogoru ( who got her ban overturned by local athletics authorities).

In the case of tennis, WADA just need to make the lines of communication between the two easier.

Sofonda Cox
11-05-2009, 10:29 PM
http://la.metblogs.com/files/2009/07/how-about-a-nice-cup-of-shut-the-fuck-up.jpg

perfect.

marquez
11-05-2009, 10:30 PM
confirmed by eurosport
http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/05112009/73/sperre-malisse-wickmayer.html

wickmayer out of bali

Sapeod
11-05-2009, 10:34 PM
perfect.
For you.

Cloudygirl
11-05-2009, 10:35 PM
I don't have a problem with the rule of a player being suspended for missing 3 tests, there are many examples in other sports of athletes getting suspended for this. Kederis, Thanou, Rasmussen and Ohogoru ( who got her ban overturned by local athletics authorities).

In the case of tennis, WADA just need to make the lines of communication between the two easier.

But she didn't miss any tests.

Deivid23
11-05-2009, 10:40 PM
Now you can drink and sniff at will Xavier

Action Jackson
11-05-2009, 10:41 PM
But she didn't miss any tests.

Ohuruogu missed 3 tests, if she hadn't, then she would not have been suspended initially.

Echoes
11-05-2009, 11:22 PM
But Malisse and Wickmayer did not. They just failed to mention their whereabouts in order to be contacted any time for a test.

The only comparable case I know is that of Rasmussen.

Anyway, well done by the Flemish court. :yeah:

Action Jackson
11-05-2009, 11:23 PM
If they can't find an athlete for doping tests, then they are classified as missed tests.

whattheheck
11-05-2009, 11:29 PM
Sucks

duong
11-05-2009, 11:30 PM
What's the status of that Flemish anti-doping tribunal ?

Shouldn't these cases be judged by the ITF (who is in charge of making this "address system" and the controls system work) ?

How do their decisions affect the tournaments from the ATP, ITF and the WTA ?

rommel99
11-05-2009, 11:46 PM
What The Hell Is This???? One Year?? Crazy Shit!

Bilbo
11-05-2009, 11:49 PM
sad for wickmeyer but not for xavier. never could stand the guy.

CooCooCachoo
11-05-2009, 11:53 PM
these things aren't contradicting either :tape:

I feel bad for Malisse, one of my fave players.... shame

Why do you feel bad? It's his own fault.

Echoes
11-05-2009, 11:55 PM
But Malisse and Wickmayer did not.

Sorry, my mistake. Malisse did miss a test. But well Yanina's case is different, I stand by what I said.


What's the status of that Flemish anti-doping tribunal ?

Shouldn't these cases be judged by the ITF (who is in charge of making this "address system" and the controls system work) ?

The WTA said they can't take any decision on doping cases before they are informed by the Belgian anti-doping agency.

Cloudygirl
11-05-2009, 11:57 PM
in which case why does she have to withdraw from Bali?

Echoes
11-06-2009, 12:00 AM
Because the sanction is operative immediately.

fast_clay
11-06-2009, 12:25 AM
sad for wickmeyer but not for xavier. never could stand the guy.

yeah... is this the first year the wada whereabouts rules have been applied...? i think so, and, if so, i think wickemeyer will get off this in the interim between now and aus open as many systems that are only just implemented would have a little bit of grace... malisse's career is gon-zo though i'm afraid...

Nathaliia
11-06-2009, 12:53 AM
Why do you feel bad? It's his own fault.
bad cos he turned out to be a sneaky bastard!!
if ppl break the rules at work for whatever reason 2 times, aware of the sanctions, they should be careful much to not get sacked. Whatever the rules are, they're the same for all the players, so I am happy the guilty arebeing caught and punished.

i agree with AJ, avoiding being located is avoiding a potential control

of course the rules are pain in the ass but either we're fighting with the doping or not. ih ope the next step is carefully checking the big names and if smth's found, to not put it under the carpet.

Drikke
11-06-2009, 12:58 AM
Look Yanina just forgot to fill in whereabouts 3 times which is just stupid. Probably she did forget one in the start of the season because the system was new.

Xavier forgot one in the beginning of the season as well, but he decided last moment not to go to Roland Garros but to stay in Florida. On the first day he should have been in Paris, he missed a test. So he forgot, or didn't had time to change his whereabouts for the next day and therefore he missed a test in Paris as well. He got punished for the same accident twice

KarlyM
11-06-2009, 05:36 AM
I think a year suspension is an excessive punishment for this. :ras:

scoobs
11-06-2009, 07:28 AM
Considering you get just 3 months for an actual out of competition doping offence, getting 1 year for not being up to date with where you said you were going to be 3 times seems excessively harsh.

I'm not saying that this punishment is wrong or rules need to be changed but clearly

a) it needs to be made easier and sensible for players to make these last-minute updates to their schedule with WADA.

b) the punishments need to be weighted to achieve some fairness considering the weight of the offence.

duong
11-06-2009, 07:43 AM
Considering you get just 3 months for an actual out of competition doping offence, getting 1 year for not being up to date with where you said you were going to be 3 times seems excessively harsh.


no the rule is 2 years now for doping offence, not 3 months .

Only in Agassi's time, it was 3 months.

As for Gasquet, he was only considered negligent for going to a party which was, according to the ITF (and despite the organizers of that party's defense), a place "publically known" for being a place where drug was consumed.

Then he should not have kissed a girl in such a place according to the ITF :haha:

That's 3 months according to the ITF's rules.

As for the Flemish tribunal, I don't know if their rules fit the ITF's.

duong
11-06-2009, 07:51 AM
The WTA said they can't take any decision on doping cases before they are informed by the Belgian anti-doping agency.

yes I had read that, but once again it sounds crazy : there should be ONE organization in responsibility or charge of these cases (with possibility of an appeal by an independent organization like the WADA).

I thought that the ITF was this organization in charge of :

- the address system (which maybe has technical or practical problems according to some sources)

- the controls

- the sanctions

it looked quite clear and well-organized for me like this.

As for the ATP and WTA, why should they intervene ? Their role should be just to accept the decisions of the authorities in charge (which are independent from tennis players contrary to the ATP and WTA) :shrug:

duong
11-06-2009, 07:56 AM
Whatever the rules are, they're the same for all the players, so I am happy the guilty arebeing caught and punished.

if you let national (or even regional in that case :rolleyes:) organizations decide of this,

this is the complete anarchy : some nations will be lax, some very strict, and it's the anarchy and not at all the same for all players.

Who's in effective charge of that ?

Is the address system decentralized and organized by the Flemish authorities rather than the ITF ?

Once again it should be the same system (I mean at least well-coordinated and organized, and the same everywhere) for all : if not, you can always have some nations which do it uncorrectly.

SloKid
11-06-2009, 08:23 AM
The only comparable case I know is that of Rasmussen.
Didn't Rasmussen lie about his whereabouts, something about being in Mexico, when he was actually practicing in Italy.

One case of missing a test I remember is Rio Ferdinand, who got 7 months for skipping a test, his excuse was that he was moving that day and forgot about it. :o :lol:
Considering you get just 3 months for an actual out of competition doping offence, getting 1 year for not being up to date with where you said you were going to be 3 times seems excessively harsh.

I'm not saying that this punishment is wrong or rules need to be changed but clearly

a) it needs to be made easier and sensible for players to make these last-minute updates to their schedule with WADA.

b) the punishments need to be weighted to achieve some fairness considering the weight of the offence.
I agree, I think it's harsh. I support suspensions for such cases obviously, but it seems that everyone has different standards on how long the suspensions are, depending on the decision making body. Rules about this should be unified in a way.

Also I think the timing was not the best seeing how Wickmayer was involved in a fairly important tournament and was doing well. They could've waited till next week, esp. since this might well get overturned on appeal with all the rumours about the system not functioning correctly and letters being sent home etc. They could've waited until the offseason perhaps and then if the suspension would be upheld the players would serve it and if not then it would be business as usual.

martine2
11-06-2009, 08:26 AM
Shame on Belgium :mad: :mad: Real experts in ruining an athlete's career they are!

Jōris
11-06-2009, 09:07 AM
I was thinking he got into a fight. What a disappointing thread.

tennisfox
11-06-2009, 10:25 AM
Ohogoru ( who got her ban overturned by local athletics authorities).


No she didn't. She served the ban. The BOC takes a very dim view of athletes who are banned so they also ban them from competing in the Olympics for GB&NI for life. She got that ban overturned because she hadn't been convicted of doping, just of missing tests and I think she was able to show that her home life was in a mess at the point she missed those tests.

Action Jackson
11-06-2009, 10:42 AM
No she didn't. She served the ban. The BOC takes a very dim view of athletes who are banned so they also ban them from competing in the Olympics for GB&NI for life. She got that ban overturned because she hadn't been convicted of doping, just of missing tests and I think she was able to show that her home life was in a mess at the point she missed those tests.

Neither were Rasmussen, Thanou, Ferdinand, Kederis and Malisse, none of them were convicted of doping, but they all apart from Ferdinand missed 3 doping tests for varying reasons. The CAS chucked out her appeal.

She was a medal chance and pulled a sob story, hence they allowed her to compete again.

bjurra
11-06-2009, 11:41 AM
I think Malisse deserves a long ban for travelling without a laptop. Who does that?

duong
11-06-2009, 11:45 AM
From what I read on a French website ( http://www.welovetennis.fr/atp/17058-wickmayer-une-decision-absurde ), Wickmayer's counsel says that they have been punished according to a speficic Flemish law (or more precisely a Flemish decree or edict, I don't know the correct word in English).

He also says that it's very difficult to appeal that decision, as one year is the minimum decision according to that Flemish law, and that the only possible appeal would be to the CAS, to whom it would be very hard to explain a Flemish specific law !

As for Malisse, he just doesn't know for what competitions he might be suspended ! :lol:

that really sounds absurd :confused:

and it unfortunately reminds me of many cases I've heard about Flemish specificities and Flemish law or administrative decisions in recent years, not at all about tennis by the way :cuckoo:

Klaas_nalbandian
11-06-2009, 01:41 PM
unbelievable, really shocking.

Sunset of Age
11-06-2009, 03:18 PM
I don't know what to say... The Flemish tribunal trying to be 'holier than the pope' (ATP/WADA)?
A very harsh ban indeed.

Bart-Belgium
11-06-2009, 03:19 PM
Malisse already reacted, in tears, saying he would quit professional tennis if the ban stays like it is now.

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/tennis/091106_Malisse_Wickmayer_beroep

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=167636142822&ref=mf

Everko
11-06-2009, 03:25 PM
Who cares? It's not like malisse has ever mattered in the tennis world

Echoes
11-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Didn't Rasmussen lie about his whereabouts, something about being in Mexico, when he was actually practicing in Italy.


Yeah. That's right.


I don't know what to say... The Flemish tribunal trying to be 'holier than the pope' (ATP/WADA)?

Why? The struggle against oping can be led at national level. In cycling riders are most often suspended by their national federation (which is a problem by the way). Why would ITF be "the Pope"?


A very harsh ban indeed.

I agree on that, however. The sanction is not proportioned to their mistakes.

Echoes
11-06-2009, 03:33 PM
Well in the article it says they don't know yet whether they will do or not.

tennisfox
11-06-2009, 03:33 PM
Neither were Rasmussen, Thanou, Ferdinand, Kederis and Malisse, none of them were convicted of doping, but they all apart from Ferdinand missed 3 doping tests for varying reasons. The CAS chucked out her appeal.

She was a medal chance and pulled a sob story, hence they allowed her to compete again.

I don't know about the others but IIRC the BOC is the only Olympic Committee which insists on a life ban for competing in the Olympics, once you've been banned. Once Christine served her ban she was allowed to compete in other events. Chambers who did fail a drugs test is allowed to compete in other events even though UK Athletics don't like it. They have to select him because he is so fast (I think they are hoping he fails another drugs test so they can get rid of him) He tried to get his Olympic ban overturned but he didn't cut such a pretty contrite figure as Christine.

Sunset of Age
11-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Why? The struggle against oping can be led at national level. In cycling riders are most often suspended by their national federation (which is a problem by the way). Why would ITF be "the Pope"?

Well that's exactly why I said that I didn't know what to say (;)), as in general I'm all for ENFORCING the RULES in sports, as you know. In this case, the ban seems to be very harsh indeed, though. In two minds I am, here.

And I may be very, very wrong about this, but I can't help to see this very harsh sanctioning in the light of the current revelations from Agassi, that the ATP let him go off the hook knowing all too well that he'd been using drugs... :shrug:

Bart-Belgium
11-06-2009, 03:41 PM
Well in the article it says they don't know yet whether they will do or not.
They changed it indeed, because Malisse said taking an appeal @ TAS costs a lot of money. They are searching for other ways to come out of troubles.

Castafiore
11-06-2009, 04:41 PM
:sad::mad:

I think it's going to be tough to appeal, though. I don't know the details of the case but Wickmayer for example couldn't get into the system on internet once because it wouldn't accept her password. She reported the problem right away to the officials by email and she was given a new password but that problem (not properly filling in the whereabouts) did count in the "three strikes and you're out" rule.
The problem is that she should have sent a fax or a text message instead. It's going to be hard to argue that they weren't sloppy. I mean, if I knew that you can also send a text message or a fax, they (Malisse, Wickmayer) should have know it too.


However, I don't quite find it fair that some plonker (professional cyclist Tom Boonen) can be caught 3 (!) times having taken cocaine and it's all "awwww, but we shouldn't be so hard on Tom, just let him ride". All Boonen gets is a slap on the hands and he can continue.

I know it's not comparable but still, it's not totally fair. They even said that they didn't suspect Wickmayer or Malisse as dopers, it's just them being sloppy.


One of the lawyers representing the players said that it's new territory for them and it's going to take time to see whether they can appeal but it's going to take months and it's going to be expensive so they're not sure that they will appeal.

:wavey: Malisse. :sad:

soulage
11-06-2009, 04:47 PM
He says he has not enough money to make an appeal toward the TAS :confused: and it's too long. What did he do with all his prize money. http://www.dhnet.be/sports/tennis/article/288121/wickmayer-et-malisse-n-iront-pas-en-appel.html
"Une procédure devant le TAS est très coûteuse et dure très longtemps. Je n'ai actuellement pas les moyens financiers pour me lancer dans un tel combat", selon Malisse. "Je ne sais pas encore comment nous allons procéder, mais si cette suspension est maintenue, cela signifie la fin de ma carrière", a déclaré le Courtraisien.

Sunset of Age
11-06-2009, 04:51 PM
He says he has not enough money to make an appeal toward the TAS :confused: and it's too long. What did he do with all his prize money. http://www.dhnet.be/sports/tennis/article/288121/wickmayer-et-malisse-n-iront-pas-en-appel.html

He never was a top player, so big chance he used up quite a big chunck of his cash on paying his team - like most journeymen. And those legal procedures take a lot of time... could be months - do you know what a top lawyer (especially one specialized in a very specific subject like this!) costs on average per hour? ;)

soulage
11-06-2009, 05:06 PM
He has 3,650,000 $ of prize money in his carreer it's correct. Early in the year he said that he had not enough for a coach and that he was playing for money in a way.
I'm sure the appeal costs a lot of money but everytime i read an interview of him he speaks about money problems that's why i'm wondering. Maybe it's to tough to appeal the decision but as it's not the first time he speaks about that.

Nev
11-06-2009, 05:18 PM
Recently I saw a video of Tenis Pro, the TV show that runs Zabaleta, Chela and Gaudio. Nalbandian was being filmed when two guys went to his home to do the doping test. He said you can't miss three tests (the guys of the doping said five :lol: :spit:), so it's not that he wasn't warned about that.

http://www.vxv.com/canal/tenispro/25SKOqY4mNDu/anti-doping-a-david.html

Sunset of Age
11-06-2009, 05:18 PM
He has 3,650,000 $ of prize money in his carreer it's correct. Early in the year he said that he had not enough for a coach and that he was playing for money in a way.
I'm sure the appeal costs a lot of money but everytime i read an interview of him he speaks about money problems that's why i'm wondering. Maybe it's to tough to appeal the decision but as it's not the first time he speaks about that.

Strange, indeed... well we of course never know what the players spend their cash on in private eh.

The money might just be one of the factors he's considering whether or not to make the appeal. I can surely see it being a tough affair - after all, he did miss a test - so maybe he barely stands a chance in the first place. I'd surely try to get some decent advice on this if I were him. Another factor may be his age - if this procedure is indeed going to take a couple of months, he'd be nearing his age of retirement, should he win his appeal.
I get the feeling that it's bye-bye for Malisse as a pro tennis player...

Castafiore
11-06-2009, 05:30 PM
Apparently, the international rules concerning the whereabouts apply to the top 50 of tennis players.

Flanders however decided to be sticter.

So, if Malisse had been from the other side of our country (Wallonia) or if he'd been French, American, Canadian,.... he wouldn't have been punished at all since he wasn't and isn't in the top 50.

This is the Flemish Doping Tribunal being holier than the pope.

Sunset of Age
11-06-2009, 05:32 PM
Apparently, the international rules concerning the whereabouts apply to the top 50 of tennis players.

Flanders however decided to be sticter.

So, if Malisse had been from the other side of our country (Wallonia) or if he'd been French, American, Canadian,.... he wouldn't have been punished at all since he wasn't and isn't in the top 50.

This is the Flemish Doping Tribunal being holier than the pope.

:eek: :eek: :eek: WOW.
I truly wonder what's the rationale behind this! :o

martine2
11-06-2009, 06:38 PM
Apparently, the international rules concerning the whereabouts apply to the top 50 of tennis players.

Flanders however decided to be sticter.

So, if Malisse had been from the other side of our country (Wallonia) or if he'd been French, American, Canadian,.... he wouldn't have been punished at all since he wasn't and isn't in the top 50.

This is the Flemish Doping Tribunal being holier than the pope.

Indeed... SHAME SHAME SHAME ON THEM :mad: :mad: :mad:

martine2
11-06-2009, 06:42 PM
Malisse already reacted, in tears, saying he would quit professional tennis if the ban stays like it is now.

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/tennis/091106_Malisse_Wickmayer_beroep

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=167636142822&ref=mf

:bigcry: :bigcry:

Echoes
11-06-2009, 09:29 PM
I think it's going to be tough to appeal, though. I don't know the details of the case but Wickmayer for example couldn't get into the system on internet once because it wouldn't accept her password. She reported the problem right away to the officials by email and she was given a new password but that problem (not properly filling in the whereabouts) did count in the "three strikes and you're out" rule.
The problem is that she should have sent a fax or a text message instead. It's going to be hard to argue that they weren't sloppy. I mean, if I knew that you can also send a text message or a fax, they (Malisse, Wickmayer) should have know it too.


I must say that's not acceptable. There should be an appeal court (in the country).


However, I don't quite find it fair that some plonker (professional cyclist Tom Boonen) can be caught 3 (!) times having taken cocaine and it's all "awwww, but we shouldn't be so hard on Tom, just let him ride". All Boonen gets is a slap on the hands and he can continue.
I know it's not comparable but still, it's not totally fair. They even said that they didn't suspect Wickmayer or Malisse as dopers, it's just them being sloppy.


No it's not comparable. Boonen was caught for cocaine in an out-of-competition test. It's normal he does not get sanctions from sport authorities. He should however be judged by a "civil" court. Your last sentence is however correct.


Apparently, the international rules concerning the whereabouts apply to the top 50 of tennis players.


It's already basically a case of two weights and two measures. But well I realize it's impossible to check out every player.


So, if Malisse had been from the other side of our country (Wallonia) or if he'd been French, American, Canadian,.... he wouldn't have been punished at all since he wasn't and isn't in the top 50.


But this rule applies to every Flemish sportsman, doesn't it?

Aaric
11-06-2009, 10:16 PM
What if Xavier and Yanina change their citizienship ??? Could be any chance of avoiding the punishment?

kiwi10is
11-06-2009, 10:22 PM
Ivo Minar was found guilty of doping and got 8 months ban... Malisse was just stupid and missed the tests, that doesn't prove that he did doping and he gets a ban of 1 year? This is just not fair. 1 or 2 months for being stupid enough to miss the tests would be enough in my opinion

Sunset of Age
11-06-2009, 10:30 PM
Ivo Minar was found guilty of doping and got 8 months ban... Malisse was just stupid and missed the tests, that doesn't prove that he did doping and he gets a ban of 1 year? This is just not fair. 1 or 2 months for being stupid enough to miss the tests would be enough in my opinion

Yes, well in fact Malisse missed just ONE test, the other two 'misdemeanors' of his were failing/forgetting to inform TPTB of his whereabouts. I agree with you that it just doesn't seem at all appropriate to give him a 1-year ban for that, though of course he knew the rules and should have applied to them. That's also why I (lawyer but unfortunately not a specialist on this kind of matter so bear with me :angel:) think that the appeal might not have much of a chance. :(
But what is REALLY ridiculous and :mad: is that these rules apparently only apply to Flemish sporters. Now THAT is mighty unfair indeed.

Echoes
11-07-2009, 01:04 AM
But what is REALLY ridiculous and :mad: is that these rules apparently only apply to Flemish sporters. Now THAT is mighty unfair indeed.

I really don't understand your argument (and Castafiore too), and it surprises me if you're a lawyer (I'm sorry). Countries (or regions in Belgium) have their own laws which may not be in force in other countries, whether sport policies are concerned or other matters.

Let's just say that one country legalizes murder. Would you say it's unfair that murderers in our countries are arrested because in that country there aren't.

I'm sorry but it sounds like a crazy argument to me. :confused:

kiwi10is
11-07-2009, 10:10 AM
of course Malisse knew the rule and he didn't care enough about it but is it fair that he gets a harder punishment for missing the test than someone who failed the test? Of course he deserves a punishment but 1 year is far far too much in my opinion. They have to put the punishment into a relation to the doping punishments.

Lurking
11-07-2009, 11:14 AM
But what is REALLY ridiculous and :mad: is that these rules apparently only apply to Flemish sporters. Now THAT is mighty unfair indeed.


So if Malisse tested positive for designer steroids in an out of competition test we should all feel mightily sorry for him as if he was born in a different part of beligum he wouldn't have been tested? That's what you are saying at the end of the day.

It's only the top 50 because WADA doesn't have the funds, the man power or the testing facilities to go any deeper and so through negotitations they are only required to test outside the top 50. They don't choose to exclude those outside the top 50 because they think they don't dope and so the Flemish should be applauded for actually taking a tougher stance as far as testing goes regardless of how they've handled the resulting saga that developed.

Jelena
11-07-2009, 12:54 PM
Thanks to Agassi, I think Malisse will have a hard time overturning the decision. Really sorry for him.

Compare to other sports, tennis players have a much tougher to know their own whereabouts so far ahead of time. WADA should really review about the special situations and not applying the same rules for all amateur and professional sports.
But they can change their whereabouts everyday. Only thing you need is internet connection.
As far as I know players are obligated to give details about their whereabouts like a month in advance. Sometimes it is hard to tell today where exactly you are gonna be say on 12/02.
I feel bad for them being suspended for that.
They can change it. :)
They have to give a schedule in advance, but they can update it depending on where they are then, of course. The whole tour would be already suspended otherwise.

Zverev explained it in detail in his blog once, if you speak German:
http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article152476/Neue-Doping-Bestimmungen-sind-heftig.html
Short-term changes are possible, they just need to log in daily then. He says he gives a time very early or very late so he's sure to be in his hotel room during the tournaments.
That was the article I thought about too. Zverev calls the rules hard, but not impossible to attend.
Why?

She didn't fail a test or fail to attend for a test.

What she did do is fail to notify them of where she would be for a chosen hour each day. I don't think breaking those kind of rules is acceptable and some sort of sanction should be imposed but a year ban is very harsh.
and that counts as a missed test for WADA.
But she didn't miss any tests.
she did. AJ and I pointed out that not telling them where you are counts as a missed test.
But Malisse and Wickmayer did not. They just failed to mention their whereabouts in order to be contacted any time for a test.

The only comparable case I know is that of Rasmussen.

Anyway, well done by the Flemish court. :yeah:
Rasmussen obviously lied about his whereabout. Also counts as a missed test.
If they can't find an athlete for doping tests, then they are classified as missed tests.
Thanks for pointing that out too.
Considering you get just 3 months for an actual out of competition doping offence, getting 1 year for not being up to date with where you said you were going to be 3 times seems excessively harsh.

I'm not saying that this punishment is wrong or rules need to be changed but clearly

a) it needs to be made easier and sensible for players to make these last-minute updates to their schedule with WADA.

b) the punishments need to be weighted to achieve some fairness considering the weight of the offence.
can it be easier than to send them an email: "Hey guys, I thought I would be already on Saturday in Paris, but I have to play that day still in Basel."? :unsure:

Castafiore
11-07-2009, 01:42 PM
I really don't understand your argument (and Castafiore too), and it surprises me if you're a lawyer (I'm sorry). Countries (or regions in Belgium) have their own laws which may not be in force in other countries, whether sport policies are concerned or other matters.
No kidding.

That's not the point. Of course, various countries and/or regions have different rules and laws. It's up to the citizens to learn those rules. That goes without saying. Not knowing the rules and laws has never been an excuse. The same applies here to Malisse and Wickmayer. Yesterday, Xavier said in an interview that he didn't know until a couple of weeks ago that you could also inform the officials of your whereabouts by text message or fax.
If I knew this, he could and should have known this.
He should have sat down to read the rules from A to Z, as tedious as it can be reading through it.

It's one thing acknowledging the fact that each country and region has their own set of laws and rules and respecting those rules that apply to you even if you disagree. It's quite another looking at differences between countries and regions and wondering about the fairness of it all and whether those rules make total sense. I don't know about you, but I don't tend to accept rules on face value.

I find it slightly on the ridiculous side that you have a different set of rules within the same country (esp. in a country for which you need magnifying glasses to find it on a map. There are about 11 million Belgians of which about 6 to 7 million Flemings. I'm not a big fan of federalisation the way some plan to do it in Belgium but that's another matter).

I read in the newspaper that the international anti-doping agency is going to look into it (the differences and inconsistencies in various countries and/or regions).

rommel99
11-07-2009, 04:03 PM
this is just too harsh.. this will end xavier's career.. its just sad..

Echoes
11-07-2009, 04:16 PM
I was not kidding, just trying to understand.

Of course if you say the law in itself is unfair I perfectly understand and I certainly don't accept rules on face value either. I still feel that law is right however but the sanction much too harsh for the mistake they made. We agree on that.

You certainly know that in Italy dopers have been sent to jail for a long while now. So it's not new that countries have different sets of rules concerning doping.;)


Now if you criticize federalization in our country concerning sport in particular, I'm on your side. :D

Mjau!
11-07-2009, 04:39 PM
Malisse doesn't have a case. "I forgot to update my whereabouts" and "I didn't have access to a computer" are not valid excuses. Wickmayer on the other hand may have been treated unfairly. Based on what I've read I believe the flemish anti doping agency is to blame here. Perhaps she should have done more but the major fault lies with the agency. There's no way she should be held responsible for the first strike anyway.

gentenaire
11-08-2009, 10:35 AM
When you realise that this was the tribunal's very first case, you immediately know why the sentence is so harsh. They simply want to slap themselves on the chest and say, "look at us, we mean business!".

It is totally unfair!

Castafiore
11-08-2009, 11:03 AM
I still feel that law is right however but the sanction much too harsh for the mistake they made. We agree on that.
Indeed. They were sloppy so I agree with some sort of sanction but this is just out of proportion and too harsh.



Currently, there's the Belgian Masters where Malisse was scheduled to play
Christophe Rochus came up with the idea of wearing a t-shirt with Malisse's picture on it in support of X-man and the other players decided to join in.

http://upload.nieuws.be/3e1d7d1b-094c-4014-93f0-bde853c27a49-BELGA-PICTURE-16465663.jpg

kiwi10is
11-08-2009, 11:19 AM
Indeed. They were sloppy so I agree with some sort of sanction but this is just out of proportion and too harsh.



Currently, there's the Belgian Masters where Malisse was scheduled to play
Christophe Rochus came up with the idea of wearing a t-shirt with Malisse's picture on it in support of X-man and the other players decided to join in.

http://upload.nieuws.be/3e1d7d1b-094c-4014-93f0-bde853c27a49-BELGA-PICTURE-16465663.jpg

that is really cool!! I wish the top players like Rafa or Roger would support him, too
Of course Malisse deserves to be punished but not with a 1 year ban! He is treated worse than a player who was found guilty of doping! This cannot be fair

rommel99
11-08-2009, 12:28 PM
Indeed. They were sloppy so I agree with some sort of sanction but this is just out of proportion and too harsh.



Currently, there's the Belgian Masters where Malisse was scheduled to play
Christophe Rochus came up with the idea of wearing a t-shirt with Malisse's picture on it in support of X-man and the other players decided to join in.

http://upload.nieuws.be/3e1d7d1b-094c-4014-93f0-bde853c27a49-BELGA-PICTURE-16465663.jpg

this is so nice of them. atleast xavier is getting support from the players. This is just WRONG! 1 year ban is ridiculous!

Echoes
11-08-2009, 12:39 PM
Dick, you old devil ! :D

Mjau!
11-08-2009, 03:33 PM
If doping is punished harshly and athletes are required to make themselves available for random drug testing, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out why repeatedly failing to do so also needs to be punished harshly. I bet you wouldn't be so understanding if Nadal had forgotten to fill out his whereabouts.

martine2
11-08-2009, 06:04 PM
Great initiative from his mates :yeah:

Just heard Yanina is going for appeal. A lot of comment on the punishment from all sides (sports, politics,...) so down deep inside I'm hoping it will be changed...

star
11-08-2009, 06:31 PM
If doping is punished harshly and athletes are required to make themselves available for random drug testing, then it doesn't take a genius to figure out why repeatedly failing to do so also needs to be punished harshly. I bet you wouldn't be so understanding if Nadal had forgotten to fill out his whereabouts.

:yeah:

And from Agassi, the zen master, we have learned that athletes actually do lie to cover up drug use. ;)

Echoes
11-08-2009, 07:32 PM
I've just watched the news on the Flemish TV station where Yanina said she would take an appeal. I understood she was not well informed about the system in the beginning of the season, which is why she failed to inform her whereabouts but since August she has always complied with the rule. She also said she thought it was a good system to track down cheaters and the Flemish minister for sport considers helping them financially for the appeal.

I didn't understand everything because she speaks rather fast (I'm French-speaking).

martine2
11-08-2009, 07:56 PM
:yeah:

And from Agassi, the zen master, we have learned that athletes actually do lie to cover up drug use. ;)

Don't be ridiculous :rolleyes: Even the judge said they weren't suspected of doping at all. It was purely an administrative matter and that's what makes the punishment far too harsh

Sunset of Age
11-08-2009, 08:09 PM
I was not kidding, just trying to understand.

Of course if you say the law in itself is unfair I perfectly understand and I certainly don't accept rules on face value either. I still feel that law is right however but the sanction much too harsh for the mistake they made. We agree on that.

I think we ALL agree on that.

Machiavelli
11-08-2009, 08:16 PM
Free Malisse (and Wickmayer)

Ridiculous stuff, a one 1 year ban would be way wrong...

star
11-08-2009, 08:21 PM
Don't be ridiculous :rolleyes: Even the judge said they weren't suspected of doping at all. It was purely an administrative matter and that's what makes the punishment far too harsh

I'm not being ridiculous. Remember that Rassmussen avoided the drug controls by not giving his location and it turned out that he was doping. Avoiding drug controls is one way of covering up one's drug use. I don't know that either Xavier or Wickmeyer used drugs, my remark was directed at the people who think having the players be accountable for not giving their location is ridiculous.

If you think the punishment is too harsh, what do you think is a reasonable punishment?

Sunset of Age
11-08-2009, 08:22 PM
Don't be ridiculous :rolleyes: Even the judge said they weren't suspected of doping at all. It was purely an administrative matter and that's what makes the punishment far too harsh

Well, point is, that one will never know for sure whether they were/are doping or not (I personally don't think so, but that's no 'evidence' at all) - that's exactly why those whereabouts-rules were made, to be able to make the players undergo regulary doping controlls. And I think those rules should be enforced.

I do agree that this punishment is way too harsh, and guess Wickmayer and Malisse are at least partly the victims of TPTB wanting to set things straight. :o

Bilbo
11-08-2009, 09:04 PM
I wish the top players like Rafa or Roger would support him, too.

Why should someone support an overrated part-timer like Malisse? No one will miss him.

Mjau!
11-08-2009, 09:16 PM
Don't be ridiculous :rolleyes: Even the judge said they weren't suspected of doping at all. It was purely an administrative matter and that's what makes the punishment far too harsh

It's irrelevant whether those enforcing the rules think the athletes are doping or not. You cannot have a system in which a tribunal is supposed to make arbitrary decisions based on nothing more than hunch about an athletes character. Yanina might have a case because her situation is at least partly caused by technical problems and administrative incompetence on the part of the agency, but to exonerate Malisse, whose defence amounts to "Oops, I forgot!", would be ridiculous.

star
11-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Why should someone support an overrated part-timer like Malisse? No one will miss him.

I will miss him.

Despite my X love, I'm not blind to his self destructive tendencies.

Action Jackson
11-08-2009, 10:48 PM
Personally I don't think Malisse had any intention to cheat at all and if he was, then he hasn't been taking the best stuff.

But as I said before, I can understand why the rule is in place, when it comes to missing tests and 3 is a reasonable number. WADA and the tennis authorities need to have some better lines of communication, they aren't going to know where they are going to play more than 6 weeks in advance, if they want to test at tournaments, then they can do it from there.

The examples I used of sportspeople before missing 3 tests and they got banned, none of them actually failed a test.

martine2
11-09-2009, 11:39 AM
Minister of Sports is going to support them financially with the appeal procedure.

Good thing, but it's "acting while the calf's already drowned" (this is a Belgian proverb, so I don't know if it's used anywhere else...)

rommel99
11-09-2009, 03:18 PM
Minister of Sports is going to support them financially with the appeal procedure.

Good thing, but it's "acting while the calf's already drowned" (this is a Belgian proverb, so I don't know if it's used anywhere else...)

this is great news.. i mean yanina as well i think before her us open semifinal run i heard was not in a good term financially, like i heard she didnt buy a dress that she wanted because it was too expensive.. and xavier, he told us himself.. so this is great news, and more importantly, they do have the support of the minister of sports as well.

duong
11-09-2009, 03:49 PM
Let's just say that one country legalizes murder. Would you say it's unfair that murderers in our countries are arrested because in that country there aren't.

In law, a hugely important issue is the nature of the victim :

in Malisse and Wickmayer's case (and in many sports as well, you're right for that), the victims (the opponents, the competition system) are 99% transnational

... and then there are international juridictions to judge cases : why not let them do their job ?

In a concrete way, which competition organizations, which are 99% international, are engaged by the Flemish's decisions ?

Are the ITF, ATP, WTA, WADA engaged ?

Also, the crime here is not "binary" : "attacked"/"not attacked".

There's a tolerance.

For the competition to be fair, the tolerance had better been coordinated. If it's not the case, those who live in a "stricter" country can legitimately feel disadvantaged.

Well, I understand that it's more disturbing the other way round :shrug:

But I don't think that national laws are highly legitimate here. And it would always be better that the international organizations were respected.

But I know that generally speaking, the Flemish are very proud and defensive of their specificities ... with the French (and the Americans outside of Europe), they are one of the most impossible "nations" as far as this is concerned :rolleyes:

rommel99
11-09-2009, 11:34 PM
i think WTA together with the ATP wants WADA to review their process or something like that..

duong
11-10-2009, 07:37 AM
i think WTA together with the ATP wants WADA to review their process or something like that..

only about during-competition controls : they think that in these periods, it's always possible for the controllers to know where the players are, without them having to declare it on a special system.

But anyway mostly players have to be careful, that's all :shrug:

whattheheck
11-10-2009, 07:43 AM
They don't deserve the ban. They just missed a few meetings, big deal.

martine2
11-10-2009, 10:23 AM
It was on the news here that they are allowed to continue playing until the appeal procedure is finished and a final judgement is given, which normally takes about 4 months.

duong
11-10-2009, 10:55 AM
It was on the news here that they are allowed to continue playing until the appeal procedure is finished and a final judgement is given, which normally takes about 4 months.

actually what I find funny about that is "allowed by whom ? suspended by whom ?"

What is the exact power of these Flemish juridictions' ?

Do we know anything about what the ITF, WADA, ATP, WTA will do about that case ? Are we sure they will do nothing until the Flemish draw their conclusion ?

Echoes
11-10-2009, 12:09 PM
I have to admit you have good points here, Duong. ;)

duong
11-10-2009, 12:17 PM
I have to admit you have good points here, Duong. ;)

your main point was also good and made me re-think it, but yet, I still find this quite strange :shrug:

Here there are international juridictions, it's not as if there was nothing :shrug:

duong
11-10-2009, 02:39 PM
In an interview, Tsonga said that a few weeks ago he was controlled in the early morning at home : fortunately he was there (naked in bed, he says :lol: ) but he had played video console during the night with friends and he might have been somewhere else ;) :

http://www.welovetennis.fr/affaire-malisse-wickmayer/17203-tsonga-s-exprime

I wonder how Safin would have dealt with that system in the long run if he's as much a "night bird" as what has been said :lol:

A few weeks ago, I had also read Benneteau saying that the same Tsonga had given up going on holiday on a boat as he planned, because of that "whereabout system".

duong
11-10-2009, 03:34 PM
Dick Pound, previous director of the WADA, is solidary with the Flemish's decision :

http://www.welovetennis.fr/affaire-malisse-wickmayer/17231-dpound-ils-peuvent-s-estimer-heureux

Dini
12-14-2009, 06:21 PM
Ban suspended. :yeah:

kalisita
12-14-2009, 06:23 PM
ESPN article on latest ruling: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4741249

Noleta
12-14-2009, 09:40 PM
:woohoo:

Cloudygirl
12-14-2009, 09:46 PM
so how soon will WADA appeal?

Noleta
12-14-2009, 09:48 PM
so how soon will WADA appeal?

The day before AO:p

rommel99
12-15-2009, 12:41 AM
ESPN article on latest ruling: http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=4741249
great news! but this ban is stupid to begin with..

tennisphilia
12-15-2009, 03:21 AM
Related Report: Wickmayer, Malisse allowed to Play (http://www.tennisphilia.com/2009/12/tennis-ban-on-wickmayer-malisse-is.html)

Deborah
12-15-2009, 09:48 AM
Good news!! :)

I guess we will not see Malisse back on court until after the Australian Open. The chances of him getting a wildcard for the tournaments before the AO or the AO itself are zero...

Ivanatis
12-15-2009, 12:24 PM
fair decision :yeah:

duong
12-15-2009, 05:52 PM
The ITF's spokesman said they are still banned under their rules :

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/tennis/top-stories/Wickmayer-still-ineligible-to-play-tennis-ITF/articleshow/5340119.cms

They are now awaiting explanations by Belgian anti-doping agency (who's not the same organization as the one which had taken the decision if I'm not mistaken :confused: )

And the Flemish sports ministry took an appeal against yesterday's decision :

http://www.welovetennis.fr/affaire-malisse-wickmayer/18247-le-ministre-des-sports-veut-faire-appel

the law organization is very complicated in that matter :crazy:

duong
12-16-2009, 12:49 PM
an article in French about that :

http://www.lalibre.be/sports/tennis/article/549688/recours-au-civil-va-t-on-ouvrir-la-boite-de-pandore.html

the article says that the last decision has been appealed to "Conseil d'Etat", the kind of highest law court in Belgium.

Either the Conseil d'Etat invalidates last decision, which seems likely from what I understand.

Or the Conseil d'Etat confirms it, and then it raises a problem because it raises an old concern about the hierarchy between sports juridictions and general juridictions : can sports juridictions still stay deciders in their matters or can general juridictions impose to them ?

This would be "opening a Pandora box" from the article ... and then I guess the "Conseil d'Etat" will rather come back to the first decision (suspension).

The CAS (sports juridiction) might be the ultimate decider imo.

Castafiore
12-16-2009, 01:07 PM
:scratch:

According to the Flemish press, the ITF has lifted the 1 year bans from both Malisse (they just announced that) and Wickmayer (they announced this yesterday).

Furthermore, I'm not an expert in these things but the anti-doping policy is a regional affair in Belgium, not a federal affair.
There's no such thing as a Belgian anti-doping tribunal since there's an anti-doping policy for Flanders, Wallonia, the Brussels region and the German speaking region. :cuckoo: WADA criticized Belgium for this insanity because they don't follow the same guidelines.

I'm assuming that the foreign media calling it the Belgian anti-doping tribunal instead of the Flemish anti-doping tribunal is because they're just too confused by it all.


From the ITF website:
ITF statement regarding Xavier Malisse and Yanina Wickmayer
16 Dec. 09

“Following the appeal by Belgian tennis players Xavier Malisse and Yanina Wickmayer against the suspensions imposed on them by the Doping Tribunal of the Flemish National Anti-Doping Organisation (NADO Flanders) for the commission of three whereabouts failures in an eighteen-month period, a Belgian civil court has ordered NADO Flanders that the suspensions be lifted pending further appeal. As a signatory to the WADA Code, the ITF is required (under article 15.4 of the Code) to give wider recognition to decisions within the authority of other signatories. NADO Flanders is also a signatory to the Code, and accordingly the ITF has removed both Mr Malisse and Ms Wickmayer from the list of suspended players, and both are eligible to participate with immediate effect.”

http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/news/newsarticle.asp?articleid=20721

duong
12-16-2009, 01:36 PM
According to the Flemish press, the ITF has lifted the 1 year bans from both Malisse (they just announced that) and Wickmayer (they announced this yesterday).

thanks for the information then I guess it means they will be able to participate in the Australian Open ;) ... before being suspended later again maybe :rolleyes:

Castafiore
12-16-2009, 02:03 PM
Wickmayer was told to not hold her breath for the Australian Open.

Due to the ban, she couldn't register for the AO in time and the Australian officials have told her that a wildcard is unlikely. (Henin has gotten a wildcard, though)
If she can't get in, I doubt that Malisse would be able to participate.

duong
12-16-2009, 02:17 PM
Wickmayer was told to not hold her breath for the Australian Open.

Due to the ban, she couldn't register for the AO in time and the Australian officials have told her that a wildcard is unlikely. (Henin has gotten a wildcard, though)
If she can't get in, I doubt that Malisse would be able to participate.

I don't know for the WTA, but Malisse is on the entry-list : they only use the rankings :shrug:

niezubayern1
12-16-2009, 03:14 PM
Wickmayer was told to not hold her breath for the Australian Open.

Due to the ban, she couldn't register for the AO in time and the Australian officials have told her that a wildcard is unlikely. (Henin has gotten a wildcard, though)
If she can't get in, I doubt that Malisse would be able to participate.

Malisse is on the entry list for Chennai and the Australian. I don't know if there are differences between the ATP and WTA on this but if he's on the entry list and qualifies with a high enough ranking there is no reason why Malisse will not be playing in early January.

Santoro Magician
12-16-2009, 03:57 PM
Old 'innocent till proven guilty' Malisse

Deborah
12-17-2009, 10:11 AM
Malisse was indeed on the entry list of Chennai, but he was taken off after the ban (his brother, who is a lawyer in Belgium, said that in an interview a couple of days ago). It's all over the Belgian press he (and Wickmayer) will need wildcards to compete in tournaments in January... :confused:

PereRibaFan
12-17-2009, 10:42 AM
That's disgusting

Those dopers should fulfill his suspension, but in tennis almost all the cheaters get away with it

Machiavelli
12-17-2009, 10:57 AM
That's disgusting

Those dopers should fulfill his suspension, but in tennis almost all the cheaters get away with it

What dopers?

Neither Malisse ore Wickmayer were tested positive

duong
12-17-2009, 11:06 AM
Malisse was indeed on the entry list of Chennai, but he was taken off after the ban (his brother, who is a lawyer in Belgium, said that in an interview a couple of days ago). It's all over the Belgian press he (and Wickmayer) will need wildcards to compete in tournaments in January... :confused:

for Chennai it's different from the Australian Open, as the Australian open is mandatory, whereas for Chennai you have to apply.

Considering his ranking, Malisse was entered in the AO entry-list with no choice, and he's still in the list which Smucav holds in another section of the forum.

It would be strange that he has a compulsory entry but is out because of a ban which has been taken out / suspended :confused:

Wickmayer's case may be different as WTA applies different rules.

Deborah
12-17-2009, 11:59 AM
^^ Thanks for clearing that out duong. :)

pesto
12-17-2009, 12:12 PM
What a mess the whole procedure is.

On a (tangentially) related issue - Gasquet should be getting the CAS verdict today.

duong
12-17-2009, 12:44 PM
^^ Thanks for clearing that out duong. :)

I'm not sure at all I cleared that out :lol:

just a guess but not sure ;)

PS : yes Gasquet 17.30 tonight European time, quite some tension for many people :unsure: he may get 2 years suspension :eek:

Deborah
12-17-2009, 01:43 PM
I'm not sure at all I cleared that out :lol:

just a guess but not sure ;)

PS : yes Gasquet 17.30 tonight European time, quite some tension for many people :unsure: he may get 2 years suspension :eek:
I know... but I do know the 'difference' between Chennai and the AO now. ;)

Anyways, assume he's not in the main draw entry list anymore, he should still be able to apply to play quallies, right? :o

duong
12-17-2009, 01:58 PM
I know... but I do know the 'difference' between Chennai and the AO now. ;)

Anyways, assume he's not in the main draw entry list anymore, he should still be able to apply to play quallies, right? :o

yes that's certain as the list is for the 23rd of december from what I heard ;)

but anyway I think he's still in if he wants ;)