Shanghai's crowd [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Shanghai's crowd

Voo de Mar
10-14-2009, 10:40 AM
Or rather lack of this crowd. Why no-one cares in Shanghai about the tournament. It's really sad to watch those empty stadiums. Probably the worst attendance ever in such a prestigious tournament. I'm disappointed because I used to like watching Hamburg when it was Masters 9 tournaments :(

Sunset of Age
10-14-2009, 10:42 AM
Or rather lack of this crowd. Why no-one cares in Shanghai about the tournament. It's really sad to watch those empty stadiums. Probably the worst attendance ever in such a prestigious tournament. I'm disappointed because I used to like watching Hamburg when it was Masters 9 tournaments :(

Yes it's terrible and I ensure you the crowds at Hamburg were much, much bigger than this. Thanks, ATP. NOT. :mad:

rubbERR
10-14-2009, 10:42 AM
they have better things to do than watching every top player retire.

Ad Wim
10-14-2009, 10:43 AM
And they want a 5th GS in China :lol:

orangehat
10-14-2009, 10:43 AM
Shanghai's crowd only likes Federer and Roddick. Seeing as Roddick retired yesterday and Fed isn't there, :shrug:

born_on_clay
10-14-2009, 10:45 AM
they have better things to do than watching every top player retire.

:worship:

Julio
10-14-2009, 11:08 AM
Or rather lack of this crowd. Why no-one cares in Shanghai about the tournament. It's really sad to watch those empty stadiums. Probably the worst attendance ever in such a prestigious tournament. I'm disappointed because I used to like watching Hamburg when it was Masters 9 tournaments :(

If tickets were low-cost, it would be different.

Voo de Mar
10-14-2009, 11:11 AM
The atmosphere (especially on Grandstand) is so quiet you can fall asleep :yawn:

simplet
10-14-2009, 11:14 AM
There is a chinese player on Grandstand, and it's still completely empty. Also, I love how every time Tsonga hits a crazy winner, you can hear the sounds of crickets in the background. But everytime zeng wins a point, even if it's a forehand dumped into the net by Tsonga, the five people there go crazy.

DUN I LOVE
10-14-2009, 11:43 AM
And they want a 5th GS in China :lol:

Haha, exactly :D

whattheheck
10-14-2009, 11:59 AM
The same can be said in Beijing. To think that China has a population of over a billion that a thousand or more could be expected at the stadium is almost impossible? Maybe tickets don't come cheap or they just watch when Fed or Rafa plays or a Chinese player is competing.

Mĺnu
10-14-2009, 12:00 PM
The same can be said in Beijing. To think that China has a population of over a billion that a thousand or more could be expected at the stadium is almost impossible? Maybe tickets don't come cheap or they just watch when Fed or Rafa plays or a Chinese player is competing.

They didn't even care for the Chinese player today...
:rolleyes:

whattheheck
10-14-2009, 12:03 PM
They didn't even care for the Chinese player today...
:rolleyes:

Yeah, it's quite sad.:confused:

rocketassist
10-14-2009, 12:31 PM
Clever one ATP.

Fiberlight1
10-14-2009, 12:48 PM
The atmosphere (especially on Grandstand) is so quiet you can fall asleep :yawn:

That's just Chinese culture.

Puschkin
10-14-2009, 12:52 PM
crowd? :eek: Attendance is shockingly poor, but Hamburg was reduced and Monte Carlo is not obligatory just to make room for a full Masters in Asia. :rolleyes:

Sunset of Age
10-14-2009, 12:54 PM
crowd? :eek: Attendance is shockingly poor, but Hamburg was reduced and Monte Carlo is not obligatory just to make room for a full Masters in Asia. :rolleyes:

Where apparently near to noone will show up... :haha:
Great way to promote the AO to be relocated to China. :yeah: :p

philosophicalarf
10-14-2009, 12:59 PM
Maybe better next year. Then again, they may have miscalculated based on TMC, but of course the average match there is between two top ranked guys.

They'll have a real problem next year if there are a similar number of high profile pullouts, like Paris used to have. Guys who have no need of points might just repeatedly skip the entire Asian swing.

SelvenluvJo
10-14-2009, 01:21 PM
If tickets were low-cost, it would be different.

the tickets are low-cost already,You could not believe how low the price.

munZe konZa
10-14-2009, 01:27 PM
it's the first year, let them develop

FiBeR
10-14-2009, 01:29 PM
waste of a Masters :mad:

What's the point of a tournament? Money? That isnt right.. The idea of having a tournament is getting the fans closer to the players. It's a show - a tennis match is a show.

What's the point in having a huge empty stadium?? Lack of respect to the sport

:worship: ATP gloryhunters :smash:

I could expect this crowd at a challenger.. why having a Grade A tournament where no one cares to go and see???

Just to say "we have it big.. we can pay for a tournament that no one cares to watch"?

:rolleyes: some people just need to search for a better way of spending their money. How about charity??

I'd rather have Hamburg than this joke of a fancy-jet set tournament where no one cares to attend :mad:

Action Jackson
10-14-2009, 01:30 PM
First year is the year, thee should be good numbers because it's a new event, but no Fedclown they won't turn up.

FiBeR
10-14-2009, 01:30 PM
it's the first year, let them develop

2004 was the first year.. 4 years in a row they had the Tennis Masters Cup.
and dont get me started there too...

Voo de Mar
10-14-2009, 01:32 PM
it's the first year, let them develop

No. They had Masters Cup in years 2002-2008 with a Houston break 2003-04. I don't believe that completely different people organizes the tournament this year.

Manon
10-14-2009, 02:14 PM
And they want a 5th GS in China :lol:

Yeah. But if they get it (someday) it would be national holliday with 'be there or...'

Henry Chinaski
10-14-2009, 02:21 PM
yeah the crowd is shit but so was hamburg's in recent years. no idea what some of you lot are on about. rome is just as bad too.

VolandriFan
10-14-2009, 02:32 PM
There's probably a ping-pong tournament just a few blocks away.

Certinfy
10-14-2009, 02:56 PM
Shocking how many people were in the Safin vs Berdych match :o

JolánGagó
10-14-2009, 03:03 PM
That's just Chinese culture.

Bullshit.

Fiberlight1
10-14-2009, 03:05 PM
Bullshit.

No, really. Highly respectful culture. If they're told to be quiet by the chair umpire you can bet that they'll listen..

Very different from the wild Madrid and French crowds.

*bunny*
10-14-2009, 03:10 PM
Steve Tignor briefly refers to the problem on Tennis.com. It's more about Beijing though because it was written before Shanghai started.
http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewrap/2009/10/surveying-shanghai.html

Mats68
10-14-2009, 03:10 PM
yeah the crowd is shit but so was hamburg's in recent years. no idea what some of you lot are on about. rome is just as bad too.

Not true. Hamburg and Rome have faithful and relatively knowledgeable crowds, thanks to the tradition of the tournaments. OK, they're a bit old and boring in Hamburg and a bit loud in Rome, but at least the crowd shows up, and people actually play tennis in Germany and in Italy.
I understand China is a big market and there's loads of sponsor money, but it's sad to watch a Masters level with an empty stadium. Let them have their 500 level tournament, but a 1000 is not deserved (let alone a GS!), there's just no tennis tradition. You can't just create tradition...unless you're Ion Tiriac

Aenea
10-14-2009, 03:12 PM
No, really. Highly respectful culture. If they're told to be quiet by the chair umpire you can bet that they'll listen..
Very different from the wild Madrid and French crowds.

What this have to do with the empty seats all over a stadium :confused: The thread is about the absent Chinese crowd not about how they are behaving in a tennis match :rolleyes:

The OP has a point. It's really sad to have all those top players playing on an empty stadium

Emperor Yi
10-14-2009, 03:27 PM
Or rather lack of this crowd. Why no-one cares in Shanghai about the tournament. It's really sad to watch those empty stadiums. Probably the worst attendance ever in such a prestigious tournament. I'm disappointed because I used to like watching Hamburg when it was Masters 9 tournaments :(

yeah agree, it's bad but wut do u expect? tennis as a spectator sports in china is still in its infancy stage. right now most of the chinese audience are there only for star players, like nadal and federer.

20-25 years ago, there were practically no tennis fans in china, so now the targeted/desirable age group with highest disposable income(middle aged) don't have real tennis roots, unlike the us and europe where many grew up watching and playing tennis.

but i can understand atp's desire for new promising markets , i mean if u want to startsomewhere, might as well be in one of the very few countries in the world that is actually prospering amid the gobal financial crisis.

having said that, NBA is doing a tremendous job promoting basketball in china. the exhibition games they had in china were packed with fans.....

TheBoiledEgg
10-14-2009, 03:39 PM
all they had to do was make the players hold ping pong sessions, crowd would have multiplied 10000x faster than the Chinese birth rate

GlennMirnyi
10-14-2009, 03:42 PM
Let's think about it: does China have any tennis tradition?

There you go.

ShotmaKer
10-14-2009, 03:43 PM
ATP as clever as always :yeah:

safinafan
10-14-2009, 03:45 PM
it's a sacrifice travel to asia. the crowd didn't care about that, the players too.
many players don't want to go(federer and murray), others are injured (del potro and roddick), it's a fiasco! :ras:

JolánGagó
10-14-2009, 03:53 PM
No, really. Highly respectful culture. If they're told to be quiet by the chair umpire you can bet that they'll listen..

Very different from the wild Madrid and French crowds.

You must be high on smth expired long ago. In any case you clearly have never been in China, louder people I've never seen in my live.

Ichiban1920
10-14-2009, 03:59 PM
What a bunch of clowns these ATP retards running it are. It's beyond pathetic seeing these matches on TV.

pica_pica
10-14-2009, 04:14 PM
Everything is still to improve. Years before Chinese reporters asked stupid questions during pressers, something like "you always eat bananas during changeover. Why not here? You don't like Chinese bananas?" Now pressers are done in much better way. We have no tennis tradition here, but does that mean a seed can't be sown?

GlennMirnyi
10-14-2009, 05:36 PM
You must be high on smth expired long ago. In any case you clearly have never been in China, louder people I've never seen in my live.

Life.

out_here_grindin
10-14-2009, 05:38 PM
yeah agree, it's bad but wut do u expect? tennis as a spectator sports in china is still in its infancy stage. right now most of the chinese audience are there only for star players, like nadal and federer.

20-25 years ago, there were practically no tennis fans in china, so now the targeted/desirable age group with highest disposable income(middle aged) don't have real tennis roots, unlike the us and europe where many grew up watching and playing tennis.

but i can understand atp's desire for new promising markets , i mean if u want to startsomewhere, might as well be in one of the very few countries in the world that is actually prospering amid the gobal financial crisis.

having said that, NBA is doing a tremendous job promoting basketball in china. the exhibition games they had in china were packed with fans.....

and why is that? Yao Ming. He started the basketball boom in China

When there is a top Chinese player, I bet you anything the Chinese will become big tennis fans.

Tommy_Vercetti
10-14-2009, 05:45 PM
Are there more foreigners in the crowd than Chinese again?

tennishero
10-14-2009, 06:17 PM
they need to change place for next year

Orka_n
10-14-2009, 07:04 PM
True. It's ridiculous right now.
Let em keep China Open, move the Masters to a country WITH a tennis tradition. I bet the players would appreciate that too.

JolánGagó
10-14-2009, 07:21 PM
Life.

get one, you seem to need it badly.

Albop
10-14-2009, 09:06 PM
In the first couple of says there were like 20 people in Grandstand.

Orka_n
10-14-2009, 09:15 PM
get one, you seem to need it badly.Wow... I'm new here, but I haven't seen a single post from you where you don't insult someone. :/ And I suppose because of this post, I'm next in line...
Also, sorry for being off-topic.

Roddickominator
10-14-2009, 09:18 PM
People in a country with no tennis tradition don't want to watch a depleted field in a worthless Masters series tournament....imagine that.

whattheheck
10-14-2009, 11:18 PM
Yeah, change the venue or lower the admission fee.

GugaF1
10-15-2009, 01:56 AM
China gets a Master Series, Plus ATP events and a Master Cup. Pratically without a tennis culture.

While the South America Continent gets 3 simple ATPs for the year, a place that has at least 12 players in the top 100. And serveral outstanding players. interesting.

luly75
10-15-2009, 02:14 AM
yeah but they have what seems to matter more than having tennis players: MONEY

GlennMirnyi
10-15-2009, 02:20 AM
get one, you seem to need it badly.

Not any more than you.

mangoes
10-15-2009, 02:33 AM
China gets a Master Series, Plus ATP events and a Master Cup. Pratically without a tennis culture.

While the South America Continent gets 3 simple ATPs for the year, a place that has at least 12 players in the top 100. And serveral outstanding players. interesting.

MONEY!!...............I think it's beyond ridiculous that China gets all these major tournaments versus South America. The empty stadium:o :o

kiro
10-15-2009, 02:42 AM
It's just after the long vacation of the National Day, most people are busy working now and few could ask for more holidays to go to a tennis tournament. :shrug:
And it seems that a lot of fans are chasing the players by the practice court, instead of buying tickets to watch matches in the centre court.
Semifinal and Final will have better crowd though.

swebright
10-15-2009, 04:14 AM
Tennis is not in their blood/not their sport/too new.

It could have been more successful/popular in India.

leng jai
10-15-2009, 04:56 AM
There's probably a ping-pong tournament just a few blocks away.

Racism.

Audacity
10-15-2009, 06:14 AM
Shit crowds.

Ichiban1920
10-15-2009, 06:19 AM
What a joke this crowd is...there's seriously like 20 people in the stands watching Davydenko vs Gonzalez. Beyond embarrassing and pathetic for the ATP.

Mimi
10-15-2009, 06:50 AM
all they had to do was make the players hold ping pong sessions, crowd would have multiplied 10000x faster than the Chinese birth rate
Russia also has a big population:rolleyes:

FedFan_2007
10-15-2009, 07:35 AM
Terrible non-crowds.

Midnight Ninja
10-15-2009, 10:00 AM
The ATP really went around this the wrong way. Rather than starting with a grassroots promotion they went straight for the Masters 1000. While the popular players will draw crowds in the short run (even though that isn't the case here), in the long run it really doesn't help as Safin is now retired, Federer will be playing another 3-4 years at best and there aren't any Chinese prospects.
It seems more like a case of infrastructure growing faster than sensibility.
Bear in mind, I'm not against having a tournament in China but having two including one 1000 event is not required.

whattheheck
10-15-2009, 10:27 AM
What they should do is scrap either Beijing or Shanghai. Two back to back tournaments in China is probably too much for them, or they get bored with it. Change the venue to Australia or somewhere else where fans are more willing and appreciative.

Goldenoldie
10-15-2009, 10:54 AM
I don't defend the ATP but presumably they would have found it very difficult politically to take the TMC away from Shanghai and not replace it with a top tier tournament for a year at least. Perhaps next year or the year after they can tell Shanghai that the experiment has failed and put the eighth Masters somewhere else.

nobama
10-15-2009, 11:05 AM
I don't defend the ATP but presumably they would have found it very difficult politically to take the TMC away from Shanghai and not replace it with a top tier tournament for a year at least. Perhaps next year or the year after they can tell Shanghai that the experiment has failed and put the eighth Masters somewhere else.I hope you're right. South America really does deserve a big event, but who is going to bring it there?

Voo de Mar
10-15-2009, 11:08 AM
I agree, it'd be nice to see Masters "9" tournament in Argentina. I think it's the most reasonable place in South America because of Del Potro and Nalbandian.

JolánGagó
10-15-2009, 11:11 AM
There must be a Master in South America. It should be held in La Paz, Bolivia.

whattheheck
10-15-2009, 11:37 AM
If it's in South America, most likely it's Argentina.

Action Jackson
10-15-2009, 12:04 PM
There must be a Master in South America. It should be held in La Paz, Bolivia.

That would be fantastic and they have to use a light ball.

Acapulco is a ISG event and Buenos Aires isn't.

Vida
10-15-2009, 12:24 PM
miami, sincy, paris... pointless ms tournies.

Burrow
10-15-2009, 12:43 PM
miami, sincy, paris... pointless ms tournies.

How is Paris pointless? Just because nobody has a game that suits the carpet? Anyway, they slowed it down so that idiots like Djokovic could actually hit a couple of balls around.

Voo de Mar
10-15-2009, 12:49 PM
I think Paris has been a good tournament. IMO they should do something with American Masters "9" tournaments, three tournaments there is too many, especially in today's bad situation of American tennis but I haven't any idea which of those three (IW, Miami, Cincy) I would cut out if I could :o

Vida
10-15-2009, 12:55 PM
How is Paris pointless? Just because nobody has a game that suits the carpet? Anyway, they slowed it down so that idiots like Djokovic could actually hit a couple of balls around.

its not the surface or the venue (which is quite nice), its at a far end of an overly long season :shrug:

Vida
10-15-2009, 01:00 PM
How is Paris pointless? Just because nobody has a game that suits the carpet? Anyway, they slowed it down so that idiots like Djokovic could actually hit a couple of balls around.

I think Paris has been a good tournament. IMO they should do something with American Masters "9" tournaments, three tournaments there is too many, especially in today's bad situation of American tennis but I haven't any idea which of those three (IW, Miami, Cincy) I would cut out if I could :o

I always liked IW. kinda holywood groove around it, isolated rich people resting place. its also nice cause its the only place (I think) where fans can mingle with the players. also surface and playing conditions are specific which is cool.

I see no point i miami whatsoever, other than that TV rights thing. money grabbing.

sincy, also a tournament with no sense in such a crowded calendar. there is canada which is fine, but why would USA have 3 MS to go with a GS?

Burrow
10-15-2009, 01:02 PM
I think Paris has been a good tournament. IMO they should do something with American Masters "9" tournaments, three tournaments there is too many, especially in today's bad situation of American tennis but I haven't any idea which of those three (IW, Miami, Cincy) I would cut out if I could :o

I think Cincinnati isn't really the best tennis location, players often complain of the weather conditions and the actual location.

But that's the thing, leading up to the US Open, you need the tournaments to be close-ish. So I think that Cincy would have to stay or at least be moved to another place in America, at the bare minimum.

Indian Wells and Miami lead up to nothing so if a tournament had to be done away with, it would be one of those, I can't see either going but it certainly wouldn't be Miami.

I think having a TMS in South America is a nice idea and it would have to be in Argentina, but I don't know where they could possibly fit it into the calendar, IW or Miami would have to be scrapped.

Voo de Mar
10-15-2009, 01:29 PM
Indian Wells and Miami lead up to nothing so if a tournament had to be done away with, it would be one of those, I can't see either going but it certainly wouldn't be Miami.

I think having a TMS in South America is a nice idea and it would have to be in Argentina, but I don't know where they could possibly fit it into the calendar, IW or Miami would have to be scrapped.

IMO, a "9" tournament in South America would finish the South-American series. After Vina del Mar, Costa Do Sauipe and Acapulco, best tennis players would finish the series in Buenos Aires for example. And Buenos Aires would replace Indian Wells, then Miami, MC, Rome, Madrid, Canadian Open, Cincinnati, and after US Open, 8th tournament somewhere in Europe. At the beginning of the 90's it was Stockholm, then Stuttgart and I used to like it :o I don't criticize an idea Asian series with Shanghai "9" but this year's tournament shows there isn't proper interest, the tournament turns into a joke.
Germany lost the most within last 20 years due to tennis reforms. It's amazing how poor is this country in comparison with 90's, especially with a year 1995:
February (Stuttgart indoor), May (Munich and "9" Hamburg), June (Halle), July (Stuttgart clay), October ("9" Essen), November (Frankfurt - Masters Cup), December (prestigous GSC in Munich).
Now Munich, Halle and Hamburg.

Almost humiliation.

Matt01
10-15-2009, 04:17 PM
How is Paris pointless? Just because nobody has a game that suits the carpet? Anyway, they slowed it down so that idiots like Djokovic could actually hit a couple of balls around.


What a retarded comment :retard:

Ivo#1Fan
10-15-2009, 04:21 PM
The reason the crowds are so small is because tennis is so boring and slow paced compared to the sports that really draw spectators in China, ping pong and badminton.

Ichiban1920
10-15-2009, 04:53 PM
Then the ATP shouldn't be such fucking morons and putting these tournaments in China then.

CmonAussie
10-15-2009, 05:03 PM
...
~~~
...
Embrace The Kids
The Shanghai organisers should have realised demand for tickets was going to be low, also realised then that empty stands with a huge stadium at 10% capacity looks really bad on TV - hurting China`s reputation and future of holding such events.. So they should have allocated ~5,000 tickets daily [except SFs & final] to Shanghai`s school children. The kids would love it - a free trip to go watch the World`s best tennis players, plus they`d be noisy & appreciative, creating some much needed atmosphere.. Morever it might spark some passion for tennis among China`s/Shanghai youth>> again good for the long-term future of the sport in the country!
Looks like the organisers won`t be making a profit out of ticket sales anyway, so those vacant seats should have been filled by someone [who better than the kids]..!


[BTW, my own passion for tennis was sparked back in 1987 when dad bought me tickets to go see the AO final, i was lucky to see the last grass AO at Kooyong- thrilling 5 setter b/w Edberg & Cash].

tangerine_dream
10-15-2009, 05:09 PM
The fall tournaments have always lack atmosphere but lately it seems to have gotten worse. It feels like a dark pall has washed over the courts, it makes many of the matches rather depressing to watch. It's a very strange feeling.

straitup
10-15-2009, 06:38 PM
The fall tournaments have always lack atmosphere but lately it seems to have gotten worse. It feels like a dark pall has washed over the courts, it makes many of the matches rather depressing to watch. It's a very strange feeling.

I know :lol: The commentators even seem affected...it's just this eerie silence and the commentators talk less than they usually do. One of the matches I watched, for a second I thought they forgot commentators, it was that quiet

Voo de Mar
10-15-2009, 06:43 PM
We share the same feelings, on Tuesday I almost felt asleep watching matches.

fast_clay
10-15-2009, 06:44 PM
they need to hold garden chair throwing competitions like the balkans do in the beer garden just outside rod laver arena where you score maximum points by flooring a tibetan protester...

gulzhan
10-15-2009, 06:47 PM
I like Shanghai crowd. I was there last year and think they are great-- cheerful and respectful, something crowd in NY and Paris lacks.

out_here_grindin
10-15-2009, 07:20 PM
Sampras said in hid book that the end of the season indoor season is cold,dark and eerie.

Aenea
10-15-2009, 07:55 PM
I think having a TMS in South America is a nice idea and it would have to be in Argentina, but I don't know where they could possibly fit it into the calendar, IW or Miami would have to be scrapped.
I think fitting a TMS into the calendar isn't the problem but the economical environment in South America. Which country is economically good enough to host a big ATP1000 tournament? And to host it not for a year or two but for a long term period. Because such a big tennis complex which is required for an outdoor TMS would cost millions. You suggest Argentina but only because of its tennis traditions. Do they have the money for a long term TMS? I think they are still implementing the currency board and financial crisis in this part of the world are not that rare. You know in today's world money determine which country receives what tournament. And not only that.

Voo de Mar
10-15-2009, 07:59 PM
I think fitting a TMS into the calendar isn't the problem but the economical environment in South America. Which country is economically good enough to host a big ATP1000 tournament? And to host it not for a year or two but for a long term. Because such a big tennis complex which is required for an outdoor TMS would cost millions. You suggest Argentina but only because of its tennis traditions. Do they have the money for a long term TMS? I think they are still implementing the currency board and financial crisis in this part of the world are not that rare. You know in today's world money determine which country receives what tournament. And not only that.

Obviously you're right, talking about "9" in SA is only a loose speculation :) Anyway good you bring a rational argument into discussion.

KoOlMaNsEaN
10-15-2009, 10:36 PM
Bring Hamburg or Stuttgart back

Sunset of Age
10-15-2009, 10:39 PM
Bring Hamburg or Stuttgart back

Hamburg... lovely tournament, great atmosphere. I still mourn the ATP downgrading of it. BAZTARDZ! :mad:

rafa_maniac
10-15-2009, 11:37 PM
I think the ATP needs to completely rethink their Masters schedule. Scrap Cinci (why does the US need 3?? You could even move IW here as the US Open lead in tournament) and Shanghai and give that to a country that cares instead like Argentina. Personally I'd upgrade Dubai which attracts a Masters field and paycheck already (they certainly have the money and the crowds there). I'd put this in January at the end of the Middle East swing and make it the prime Oz Open lead up. Also, there needs to be a Masters on Grass, how about upgrading Halle so Germany gets some respect as a tennis loving nation back?

Action Jackson
10-16-2009, 12:37 AM
IW in the summer, that is ridiculous, the weather is too hot at time of the year.

lurker
10-16-2009, 01:21 AM
I think the ATP needs to completely rethink their Masters schedule. Scrap Cinci (why does the US need 3?? You could even move IW here as the US Open lead in tournament) and Shanghai and give that to a country that cares instead like Argentina. Personally I'd upgrade Dubai which attracts a Masters field and paycheck already (they certainly have the money and the crowds there). I'd put this in January at the end of the Middle East swing and make it the prime Oz Open lead up. Also, there needs to be a Masters on Grass, how about upgrading Halle so Germany gets some respect as a tennis loving nation back?

I agree there needs to be a Masters on grass too. But the season isn't long enough and the French and British won't budge on the dates of Roland Garros and Wimbledon. Pfft!!!

Pushing back Australia a few weeks won't hurt ( no more roasting the players on the courts in the summer!) and gives the opportunity to stick in a Masters leading to it. I almost like the idea of Dubai. Almost, because of the fiasco this year with Peer. That just CANNOT happen in tennis, period. Hong Kong had an exo in the beginning of the year before, maybe it can be the Masters. It would be tough politically to scrap Cinci since they just spent so much to upgrade. IW is sorta on the chopping block. They could scrap that.

Arkulari
10-16-2009, 01:40 AM
Hamburg... lovely tournament, great atmosphere. I still mourn the ATP downgrading of it. BAZTARDZ! :mad:

Hamburg was SO great, my fave MS tournament :sad:
in fact, most tournaments in Germany are pretty awesome, Halle is really cool as well, good hotels, not so expensive tickets, great crowd... :)

IW and Miami could be played before the AO (if the AO can be moved to February or something like that) :shrug: not in the summer, that'll be worse than the US Open Series :eek:

out_here_grindin
10-16-2009, 01:43 AM
IW in the summer, that is ridiculous, the weather is too hot at time of the year.

It's consistently in the 110s in surrounding areas.

Quakes
10-16-2009, 03:58 AM
Simple my friend. The Chinese people are busy making money and supplying the World with their products.

GlennMirnyi
10-16-2009, 04:20 AM
I think fitting a TMS into the calendar isn't the problem but the economical environment in South America. Which country is economically good enough to host a big ATP1000 tournament? And to host it not for a year or two but for a long term period. Because such a big tennis complex which is required for an outdoor TMS would cost millions. You suggest Argentina but only because of its tennis traditions. Do they have the money for a long term TMS? I think they are still implementing the currency board and financial crisis in this part of the world are not that rare. You know in today's world money determine which country receives what tournament. And not only that.

Brazil could host a TMS easily, if the problem were only economical. It's also political, and there's where South American countries don't have power.

lurker
10-16-2009, 04:31 AM
Well, now that Rio has the Summer Olys, there could be a great deal of potential for a TMS in South America. Though Argentina is the power tennis nation there, I think Brazil makes more sense because of the tourism and location. It makes far more sense to me than to have one in China. I mean, yes China has the second most number of billionaires next to the US, but the majority of people there do not have the disposable income to go to these TMS events. Ever since ATP had the year end event in Shanghai, it's painfully obvious, after so many years of watching empty stadiums! Even Japan would be a better prospect. So many people with disposable income there.

GlennMirnyi
10-16-2009, 05:25 AM
Brazil makes more sense because Argentina is broken.

Brazil has the money but not the political power or the public. :p

guga2120
10-16-2009, 05:56 AM
I think Paris has been a good tournament. IMO they should do something with American Masters "9" tournaments, three tournaments there is too many, especially in today's bad situation of American tennis but I haven't any idea which of those three (IW, Miami, Cincy) I would cut out if I could :o


Paris, has not been a good tournament at all. It could go easily, along with Shanghai. The one in America that should go is Cincy.

Arkulari
10-16-2009, 06:03 AM
Bercy is a load of crap, the worst tournament I've ever been to :shrug:

GlennMirnyi
10-16-2009, 06:09 AM
Bercy is a load of crap, the worst tournament I've ever been to :shrug:

That's because you're a Nadulltard and he'll never win there. ;)

Bercy rules.

Arkulari
10-16-2009, 06:22 AM
:lol: I like the US Open and Rafa has never won it :p :lol:

but seriously, Bercy is so badly scheduled and organized, most of the players are tired/injured, tank or withdraw, the crowd is really rude, if you are at the POPB you can't leave, you can't see the players practise... (Jelena and I talked about this before)

not to mention I had to suffer through a Boredo-Simon match in there, so I guess that caused a trauma that remains in my mind :lol:

the best MS event was Hamburg, they should have never put Madrid instead of it :shrug:

Voo de Mar
10-16-2009, 06:32 AM
I've got on the other hand positive memories with Bercy :o Watching this tournament for the first time in 1990 (it was my 1st "9" tournament) I started to collect tennis scorelines, and that tournament created my first favorite player - Jonas Svensson :)

GlennMirnyi
10-16-2009, 06:32 AM
:lol: I like the US Open and Rafa has never won it :p :lol:

but seriously, Bercy is so badly scheduled and organized, most of the players are tired/injured, tank or withdraw, the crowd is really rude, if you are at the POPB you can't leave, you can't see the players practise... (Jelena and I talked about this before)

not to mention I had to suffer through a Boredo-Simon match in there, so I guess that caused a trauma that remains in my mind :lol:

the best MS event was Hamburg, they should have never put Madrid instead of it :shrug:

If you're a gloryhunter, it's your problem, really. :shrug:

Arkulari
10-16-2009, 06:35 AM
not only the actual top ones Gu, a LOT of players are injured/fatigued by that time of the year and most people give a half-assed effort, so it can be pretty boring :shrug:

when it had carpet it was actually good, but now the court is just disgraceful and we went from Sampras vs Becker to Berdych vs Ljubicic :rolleyes:

and like I said before, the tournament organization sucks, I don't like that you can't see the players practise, things are more expensive than at RG, a lot of things add up for a bad tournament :shrug:

GlennMirnyi
10-16-2009, 06:38 AM
not only the actual top ones Gu, a LOT of players are injured/fatigued by that time of the year and most people give a half-assed effort, so it can be pretty boring :shrug:

when it had carpet it was actually good, but now the court is just disgraceful

We can agree on the bolded part.

It's only natural that some players get to Bercy really tired, but whoever gets to play is worthy of his place. Well, except for Boredo, Shittler... :p

Arkulari
10-16-2009, 06:40 AM
Boredo has already gotten his lucky MS, so please no :lol: (besides losing to Boredo on indoor hard would be just as bad as losing to Blake on clay)

I agree with you that whomever wins 6 matches deserves to win and I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Simon or even Lopez win it :p

GlennMirnyi
10-16-2009, 06:44 AM
Boredo has already gotten his lucky MS, so please no :lol:

I agree with you that whomever wins 6 matches deserves to win and I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Simon or even Lopez win it :p

Simon? Why are you doing this to the world? :p

Arkulari
10-16-2009, 06:45 AM
hey, the field at Bercy call for it :lol: Please God don't let it happen

rubbERR
10-16-2009, 06:47 AM
no wonder, watching sh*thouse match like stepanek - davydenko would definitely drown them to misery.

Langers
10-16-2009, 06:58 AM
Some of the worst crowds I've ever seen to a MS event. Pathetic!

Langers
10-16-2009, 07:15 AM
I think the ATP needs to completely rethink their Masters schedule. Scrap Cinci (why does the US need 3?? You could even move IW here as the US Open lead in tournament) and Shanghai and give that to a country that cares instead like Argentina. Personally I'd upgrade Dubai which attracts a Masters field and paycheck already (they certainly have the money and the crowds there). I'd put this in January at the end of the Middle East swing and make it the prime Oz Open lead up. Also, there needs to be a Masters on Grass, how about upgrading Halle so Germany gets some respect as a tennis loving nation back?
So that plan of incorporating Dubai into the pre AO calender would all but ruin the Australian Open series (Brisbane, Sydney). That's not on.

Cincy needs to go IMO, the worst MS tournament. Indian Wells is terrific, no way should that go. Miami is safe too, everyone seems to consider it the '5th Slam' so that's just about untouchable.

Shanghai won't be removed, too much money involved. It probably should, but they're not going to dump it after 1 year. I think the main problem with the season ending MS tournaments is that there's not much at stake. Yeah the TMC or ATP Wworld tour finals or whatever it's called but that's only 3-4 guys competing for a spot. For the most part players are tired and want rest and another MS event in Asia is the last thing they want. And with no Slams on the horrizon, what is there really to play for?

Rafa#Uno:-)
10-16-2009, 08:04 AM
people are not interested in tennis there....
idiotic
I get angry

HKz
10-16-2009, 08:24 AM
Shanghai's crowd only likes Federer and Roddick. Seeing as Roddick retired yesterday and Fed isn't there, :shrug:

this

Aenea
10-16-2009, 08:50 AM
I think the ATP needs to completely rethink their Masters schedule. Scrap Cinci (why does the US need 3?? You could even move IW here as the US Open lead in tournament) and Shanghai and give that to a country that cares instead like Argentina. Personally I'd upgrade Dubai which attracts a Masters field and paycheck already (they certainly have the money and the crowds there). I'd put this in January at the end of the Middle East swing and make it the prime Oz Open lead up. Also, there needs to be a Masters on Grass, how about upgrading Halle so Germany gets some respect as a tennis loving nation back?

What? What crowd does Dubai attract? Locals don't care about tennis, give them horse racing and golf and that's it. There are a lot of foreigners there and they can make for a good crowd but most are working through the day and they only can attend the evening matches. Indians would make a big crowd also since there are many of them but they only go to the courts if Sania Mirza is playing. No, I don't see Dubai as a better place than Shaghai. The SF and F will be well attended that's true but same will be with Shanghai I guess.
They have the money, they have the will but they have the same problem like Shangai - they don't have tennis traditions.

CmonAussie
10-16-2009, 09:54 AM
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The only places in Asia where they could attract a crowd worthy of a Masters Series are: Tokyo, Hong Kong and Bangkok [maybe]!
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Another problem with the Shanghai facilities is the fact that they`re too far out from the city! Of course building a stadium closer to the CBD would have been more expensive, but it seems their futuristic stadium is going to waste where its currently located..!!

JolánGagó
10-16-2009, 10:32 AM
Dubai is worse than Shanghai, if that's even possible.

Kolya
10-16-2009, 10:35 AM
Perfect atmosphere for Davydenko.

Emperor Yi
10-17-2009, 12:22 PM
and why is that? Yao Ming. He started the basketball boom in China

No, ask any true chinese bball fan and 9 outta 10 times, they will say MJ and his bulls started the craze. Yao only helped to bring the popularity to another level.


When there is a top Chinese player, I bet you anything the Chinese will become big tennis fans.

Quite true, it probably will increase level of recognition of the sports in the country, now there are just mostly casual band wagon fans and pathetic fangirls. in any case, it still won't ever rival soccer and basketball in terms of fanatic following.

novanora
10-17-2009, 02:44 PM
For people who don't know, the time arrangement of Shanghai TMS actually is really bad to attract the people attendance, because it is just after the long national holidays (Oct 1-8), and everyone needs to be back to work and school in the weekdays. Tennis in China is not a long-history sports, although we have more and more people start playing tennis and know more about this sports since tennis tournaments were introduced into this country, but still much less compared with the western countries. The people who watch tennis matches here are mostly young people, who either work or study in the school. It's very hard for them to escape from the school or ask for leaves to watch the tennis in the week days. Night session will be a lot better, especially the weekends coz people can come to the tennis courts after the whole day work and study. China Open this year had more attendance if someone compare these two tournaments, just because it has the time advantage —— during the national holidays, and everyone has the time to come.

novanora
10-17-2009, 02:49 PM
Another problem with the Shanghai facilities is the fact that they`re too far out from the city! Of course building a stadium closer to the CBD would have been more expensive, but it seems their futuristic stadium is going to waste where its currently located..!!

That's truth....the stadium is too far and very inconvenient to come. i almost needs to spend around 2 hours from my company to that place :o Although it's not very easy to find a center place in Shanghai to build a tennis stadium, still they can improve the transportation and make it easy for the people to come and back.

And another problem is it's too close to the airport, I can see a lot of players were annoyed by the airplane noise when they were serving.

rafa_maniac
10-17-2009, 03:00 PM
So that plan of incorporating Dubai into the pre AO calender would all but ruin the Australian Open series (Brisbane, Sydney). That's not on.


It depends, have Doha/Chennai/whatever in first week, then Dubai in the 2nd. Maybe a week off with a few low key tournies like Auckland, then Brisbane/Sydney, then Oz Open in the first two weeks of Febuary.

rafa_maniac
10-17-2009, 03:03 PM
What? What crowd does Dubai attract? Locals don't care about tennis, give them horse racing and golf and that's it. There are a lot of foreigners there and they can make for a good crowd but most are working through the day and they only can attend the evening matches. Indians would make a big crowd also since there are many of them but they only go to the courts if Sania Mirza is playing. No, I don't see Dubai as a better place than Shaghai. The SF and F will be well attended that's true but same will be with Shanghai I guess.
They have the money, they have the will but they have the same problem like Shangai - they don't have tennis traditions.

The stands have always looked reasonably full to me :shrug:

Aenea
10-17-2009, 04:09 PM
The stands have always looked reasonably full to me :shrug:

For the night matches as I have said in my post. Day matches (unless Federer or Nadal are playing but they rarely play at day) are poorly attended at all stages until the semis.

Ariel
10-17-2009, 06:20 PM
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Embrace The Kids
The Shanghai organisers should have realised demand for tickets was going to be low, also realised then that empty stands with a huge stadium at 10% capacity looks really bad on TV - hurting China`s reputation and future of holding such events.. So they should have allocated ~5,000 tickets daily [except SFs & final] to Shanghai`s school children. The kids would love it - a free trip to go watch the World`s best tennis players, plus they`d be noisy & appreciative, creating some much needed atmosphere.. Morever it might spark some passion for tennis among China`s/Shanghai youth>> again good for the long-term future of the sport in the country!
Looks like the organisers won`t be making a profit out of ticket sales anyway, so those vacant seats should have been filled by someone [who better than the kids]..!


[BTW, my own passion for tennis was sparked back in 1987 when dad bought me tickets to go see the AO final, i was lucky to see the last grass AO at Kooyong- thrilling 5 setter b/w Edberg & Cash].

Great idea. Better yet, fill some of those seats with tennis-loving foreigners who get treated like crap at their own tournaments (US Open anyone?). The Chinese have enough money to pay our airfare as well. I looked lovingly and in disbelief at all those empty seats fantasizing about how ridiculously easy it would be to slip into the front rows to cheer on the sport's best players. Damned embarrassment for the sport and the ATP. I'm glad the guys are dropping like flies. They're sending a message to the tennis powers that be and to the world. If this were a Slam, some of those "retirees" would have played through the pain.