Will Rafa still become the clay court GOAT? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will Rafa still become the clay court GOAT?

ORGASMATRON
07-23-2009, 08:12 PM
After Rafa's fourth round exit against Soderking at RG this year, new questions arise about his status as the clay court GOAT. This year he had the chance to take great strides towards becoming the clay court GOAT by winning 5 straight titles in Paris, but couldnt deliver. He now needs 3 more titles in Paris to beat Borg's record. With his body catching up with his taxing game style fast, it is now even doubtful whether he will still equal that record. I think 2 more RG titles is within his grasp, but 3 might be a stretch.

Rafa is now 23, and personally i feel he could play for another 3 years at the top given his body holds up. That means he must win RG every year from now on to break Borg's record. After the defeat he suffered at the hands of Soderking, his invincibility at RG have been broken and i predict it will become harder for him to win RG from now on. I know Roger would love to beat him there, and i have no doubt that he can. But either way other players will take note of what happened this year and will believe that Rafa is beatable on clay after all.

I always thought Rafa would become the clay court GOAT but there is no guarantee at this point. He has a lot left to prove.

Discuss.

ORGASMATRON
07-23-2009, 08:15 PM
It sucks that you cant delete a thread once you started it, i wanted to add a poll. Mods please take action.

Certinfy
07-23-2009, 08:26 PM
Yes!

Ichiban1920
07-23-2009, 08:31 PM
He already is the moonballer GOAT so I'll give him that.

Serenidad
07-23-2009, 08:32 PM
Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

Mods please take action.

:crying2:

Fiberlight1
07-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Yeah, probably.

He'll still own Federer everytime he plays him there. Plus, in alot of people's eyes, he's already the clay GOAT.. 81 match winning streak, 11 clay MS series, 4 consec French Opens and only 23.

Borg wasn't undefeated at RG so why should Rafa have to be? He actually lost twice in at RG and didn't play one year. He's also played it 8 times, Rafa only 5.. We'll just have to see.. but in my opinion, Rafa's clay court credentials have no where to go but up. He's pretty much proved all he needs to in the eyes of most tennis fans and professionals.

ORGASMATRON
07-23-2009, 08:39 PM
Yeah, probably.

He'll still own Federer everytime he plays him there. Plus, in alot of people's eyes, he's already the clay GOAT.. 81 match winning streak, 11 clay MS series, 4 consec French Opens and only 23.

Borg wasn't undefeated at RG so why should Rafa have to be? He actually lost twice in at RG and didn't play one year. He's also played it 8 times, Rafa only 5.. We'll just have to see.. but in my opinion, Rafa's clay court credentials have no where to go but up. He's pretty much proved all he needs to in the eyes of most tennis fans and professionals.

But he is not the clay court GOAT. To say he is better then Borg on clay already is just rediculous.

rwn
07-23-2009, 08:41 PM
After Rafa's fourth round exit against Soderking at RG this year, new questions arise about his status as the clay court GOAT. This year he had the chance to take great strides towards becoming the clay court GOAT by winning 5 straight titles in Paris, but couldnt deliver. He now needs 3 more titles in Paris to beat Borg's record. With his body catching up with his taxing game style fast, it is now even doubtful whether he will still equal that record. I think 2 more RG titles is within his grasp, but 3 might be a stretch.

Rafa is now 23, and personally i feel he could play for another 3 years at the top given his body holds up. That means he must win RG every year from now on to break Borg's record. After the defeat he suffered at the hands of Soderking, his invincibility at RG have been broken and i predict it will become harder for him to win RG from now on. I know Roger would love to beat him there, and i have no doubt that he can. But either way other players will take note of what happened this year and will believe that Rafa is beatable on clay after all.

I always thought Rafa would become the clay court GOAT but there is no guarantee at this point. He has a lot left to prove.

Discuss.

He needs 3 more French Opens as simple as that.:wavey:

Serenidad
07-23-2009, 08:41 PM
This is just too funny.

ORGASMATRON
07-23-2009, 08:58 PM
He needs 3 more French Opens as simple as that.:wavey:

:scratch:

MalwareDie
07-23-2009, 09:20 PM
The answer is no.

Har-Tru
07-23-2009, 09:26 PM
yes. he doesn't necessarily need 3 more FO.

ORGASMATRON
07-23-2009, 09:34 PM
The answer is no.

Geez that would really suck for his fans. Especially after Roger became the all time GOAT. Suddenly im really happy not to be a Rafa fan.

yes. he doesn't necessarily need 3 more FO.

If he only wins 2 more that wouldnt make him the clear CCGOAT. Its like if Roger only won 14 GS and no RG titles. The Sampy fans would always have a case for him not being the GOAT.

Har-Tru
07-23-2009, 09:48 PM
If he only wins 2 more that wouldnt make him the clear CCGOAT. Its like if Roger only won 14 GS and no RG titles. The Sampy fans would always have a case for him not being the GOAT.

That's if you follow the numbers and that's it.

Fiberlight1
07-23-2009, 10:07 PM
But he is not the clay court GOAT. To say he is better then Borg on clay already is just rediculous.

No its not. Of course through statistics, but saying that Borg is a better clay PLAYER simply based on stats is purely speculation.

This is Sparta
07-23-2009, 10:07 PM
Geez that would really suck for his fans. Especially after Roger became the all time GOAT. Suddenly im really happy not to be a Rafa fan.



If he only wins 2 more that wouldnt make him the clear CCGOAT. Its like if Roger only won 14 GS and no RG titles. The Sampy fans would always have a case for him not being the GOAT.

As always, looking only at the statistics.


Anyway, it has to be Borg. At least he played in a good clay court era, and a good era in general, under strong competition. Not a mug era, in which Nadull and Fedchoker take advantage of the lack of grass/clay quality players.;)

ORGASMATRON
07-23-2009, 10:40 PM
As always, looking only at the statistics.


Anyway, it has to be Borg. At least he played in a good clay court era, and a good era in general, under strong competition. Not a mug era, in which Nadull and Fedchoker take advantage of the lack of grass/clay quality players.;)

Well Roger and Rafa playing in the same era already makes it a tough era. Guys like Hewitt, Safin, Roddick, Murray and Djokovic arent exactly clowns either.

No its not. Of course through statistics, but saying that Borg is a better clay PLAYER simply based on stats is purely speculation.

Look there is more to a player just playing well on clay. There are also things like length of time at the top that has to be taken into consideration. Grand slam titles are always a good measuring stick, because it is the ultimate test for a player. If Rafa wants to lay claim to the CCGOAT title he must win at least 6 RG titles. To be the clear CCGOAT he must win 7 RG titles.

JediFed
07-24-2009, 02:09 AM
All depends on the knees.

IMO, 2 more would be enough.

Sunset of Age
07-24-2009, 02:10 AM
imho he already is.

guga2120
07-24-2009, 02:24 AM
After what he has done the last 5 years on clay, not just in Paris. In the Master Series and Davis cup only Borg is possibly above him and that is debatable. With Rafa, as it has been for years it all depends on his health. He lost in in Paris b/c he was injured, and if he is next year he will lose again.

Fedex
07-24-2009, 02:28 AM
When he wins two more RG's, then we'll talk about this subject.

MacTheKnife
07-24-2009, 02:31 AM
This is where it gets tricky for me. Still Borg right now for me. Name 5 really good clay court players right now, then check this link.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Singles.aspx?d=22.12.1980&c=&r=1#

And this doesn't even show all the guys I never heard of that were really good clay court players back then.

Har-Tru
07-24-2009, 02:43 AM
So many people thinking numbers are everything. 4 is less than 6, so he needs 6. Not necessarily.

Also, the fact that there aren't as many excellent clay court specialists today doesn't mean the competition is weaker. Djokovic and Federer, at least, are as good comparatively on clay as Vilas, Orantes or Panatta.

crude oil
07-24-2009, 02:46 AM
So many people thinking numbers are everything. 4 is less than 6, so he needs 6. Not necessarily.

Also, the fact that there aren't as many excellent clay court specialists today doesn't mean the competition is weaker. Djokovic and Federer, at least, are as good comparatively on clay as Vilas, Orantes or Panatta.

numbers aren't everything but they are OBJECTIVE.

you may think nadal is goat with 6 or less. but borg fans will say the opposite and talk about how weak this generation is etc etc.

borg has the major record on the board. everything else is an opinion.

MacTheKnife
07-24-2009, 02:46 AM
So many people thinking numbers are everything. 4 is less than 6, so he needs 6. Not necessarily.

Also, the fact that there aren't as many excellent clay court specialists today doesn't mean the competition is weaker. Djokovic and Federer, at least, are as good comparatively on clay as Vilas, Orantes or Panatta.

Ok, that's 2, 3 more to go. :haha:

guga2120
07-24-2009, 02:52 AM
Ok, that's 2, 3 more to go. :haha:


There are not specialists anymore, atleast not like there used to be, and that is not just on clay. The clay is so much faster now than it was when Borg and Vilas played. Same thing goes for grass, how many grass court specialists has roger had to deal with?

MacTheKnife
07-24-2009, 02:55 AM
There are not specialists anymore, atleast not like there used to be, and that is not just on clay. The clay is so much faster now than it was when Borg and Vilas played. Same thing goes for grass, how many grass court specialists has roger had to deal with?

My point exactly, thanks.. and surely you don't think I'm a Fedtard..

Har-Tru
07-24-2009, 03:04 AM
Ok, that's 2, 3 more to go. :haha:

Didn't get you there, sorry.

There are not specialists anymore, atleast not like there used to be, and that is not just on clay. The clay is so much faster now than it was when Borg and Vilas played. Same thing goes for grass, how many grass court specialists has roger had to deal with?

Yes, that is the main reason.

lessthanjake
07-24-2009, 03:13 AM
I hope he still becomes the clay GOAT.

MacTheKnife
07-24-2009, 03:18 AM
I hope he still becomes the clay GOAT.

I think he will if he stays healthy and no new faces pop up in the next couple of years.

ForehandWinner
07-24-2009, 03:25 AM
It sucks that you cant delete a thread once you started it, i wanted to add a poll. Mods please take action.

You can still add poll by using "Thread Tool" options.\

Btw, Rafa will be clay GOAT. He will make you and everyone else believe in two months. I am laughing now imagining the thread titles then. It would be like "How many more Rafa can win than Borg", "How close is Rafa to GOAT", "Is Rafa's the biggest comeback ever", "Is there a possible mental strenth to compare Rafas" ...blah..blah...blah...! Humans!!

alfonsojose
07-24-2009, 03:29 AM
Pocahontas is so 2008 :wavey: ;)

lessthanjake
07-24-2009, 03:30 AM
I think he will if he stays healthy and no new faces pop up in the next couple of years.

Those are 2 big ifs though.

I just hope it happens because I like to feel like I am watching greatness. And Nadal being the clay GOAT would mean anytime I have watched Nadal on clay recently, I have been watching the greatest clay court player ever. I'm not old enough to have watched Borg live, so I'd like Nadal to be better so I didn't miss out on as much

Har-Tru
07-24-2009, 03:34 AM
gotta run. bye.

Aenea
07-24-2009, 06:21 AM
No, he won't become the clay court GOAT. He already is. :wavey:

DJ Soup
07-24-2009, 06:49 AM
No, he won't become the clay court GOAT. He already is. :wavey:

there is a guy called borg.

Benny_Maths
07-24-2009, 08:50 AM
I'll show you two sets, A and B.

A = {40, 45, 50, 55, 65, 66, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 78}

B = {55, 60}

For some reason no matter how I look at it, max{A} << 1000 even though A has more elements than B. :confused:

HKz
07-24-2009, 10:31 AM
Rafael does have tremendous records on clay outside of Roland Garros, but honestly just like Wimbledon, Australian Open and US Open are, Roland Garros is where it's at and him not equaling Borg's total is a question for statistical and theoretical greatness. Even though Borg didn't start his first 4 Roland Garros in undefeated succession, he did still have four wins in a row just like Nadal on top of two other Roland Garros titles that were also consecutive. It is a tough one to decide because they both have certain statistics neither one owns. For example, in the 5 year period from 77-81 where Borg had one absence at Roland Garros and won his four in a row, he lost no clay tournament final while Nadal's 5 year period from 05-09 he has lost two clay tournament finals. Obviously there are some difference such as how Borg didn't enter in as many clay tournaments as Nadal did, but it was completely different back then. No Master Series tournaments to attract players to certain events and bigger clay events were not as abundant as it is now. If you look at Borg's titles, he had only won 28 clay titles out of 63 career titles while Nadal has already won 25 clay titles out of 36 career titles. So this is a very hard decision to be able to decide, but IMO it does come down to who has the most Grand Slams because they are practically the only consistent events throughout the history of tennis to be able to be comparable with different generations.

PiggyGotRoasted
07-24-2009, 11:59 AM
What if roger federer now wins rg for the next 5 years?

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 12:01 PM
numbers aren't everything but they are OBJECTIVE.

you may think nadal is goat with 6 or less. but borg fans will say the opposite and talk about how weak this generation is etc etc.

borg has the major record on the board. everything else is an opinion.

This.

You can still add poll by using "Thread Tool" options.\

Btw, Rafa will be clay GOAT. He will make you and everyone else believe in two months. I am laughing now imagining the thread titles then. It would be like "How many more Rafa can win than Borg", "How close is Rafa to GOAT", "Is Rafa's the biggest comeback ever", "Is there a possible mental strenth to compare Rafas" ...blah..blah...blah...! Humans!!

Thanks i will look into it. I dont think it will happen in 2 months. Hed be lucky to hold onto his nr 2 spot come year end.

I'll show you two sets, A and B.

A = {40, 45, 50, 55, 65, 66, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 78}

B = {55, 60}

For some reason no matter how I look at it, max{A} << 1000 even though A has more elements than B. :confused:

:confused: :lol:

MacTheKnife
07-24-2009, 12:02 PM
What if roger federer now wins rg for the next 5 years?

Then we will have to find a new forum to post on, because this sucker will TOTALLY melt down. :haha:

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 12:09 PM
Then we will have to find a new forum to post on, because this sucker will TOTALLY melt down. :haha:

Who, you? :haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Sapeod
07-24-2009, 01:06 PM
He is not the clay GOAT yet. He has to tie with Borg's French Open wins and win a lot more clay title and going one year without getting beaten on the surface wouldn't do any harm.

vamosinator
07-24-2009, 01:13 PM
I think Wimbledon will be the slam we associate Nadal with most by the end of his career.

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 01:44 PM
He is not the clay GOAT yet. He has to tie with Borg's French Open wins and win a lot more clay title and going one year without getting beaten on the surface wouldn't do any harm.

Like i said before, in order to be the clear CCG he would have to beat Borg's record. Just tying it wont be enough, because slams are what matter in the final analysis.

I think Wimbledon will be the slam we associate Nadal with most by the end of his career.

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Expected from the ultimate fangirl :o

Burrow
07-24-2009, 01:48 PM
imho he already is.

but this is not a matter of opinion, when a guy has 6 roland garros titles to his name, you can't consider some guy with 4 greater.

Burrow
07-24-2009, 01:50 PM
He'll need to win 10 Roland Garros titles, because this era and in particular, clay court era, is unbelievably poor that if he wins any less than 10, he is a pile of shit. :)

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 01:52 PM
but this is not a matter of opinion, when a guy has 6 roland garros titles to his name, you can't consider some guy with 4 greater.

Exactly. The logic of some people in this forum...

He hasnt even shown he can come back from adversity yet like Roger did. Instead hes been acting more like a crying pansy of late :o

vamosinator
07-24-2009, 02:11 PM
He'll need to win 10 Roland Garros titles, because this era and in particular, clay court era, is unbelievably poor that if he wins any less than 10, he is a pile of shit. :)

Not half as bad as this grasscourt era. At least this clay era has strong baseliners (even if they are the hardcourt styled, though that can be good as they are attacking more rather than moonballing). No bigtime serve-volleyers at Wimbledon.

Benny_Maths
07-24-2009, 03:35 PM
:confused: :lol:

I was alluding to the fact that if a player is winning a certain tournament year after year, then in that period he is clearly the dominant player. So the strength, and in particular the number of challengers to that player's reign during that stretch, are largely irrelevant in a comparison between two players with similar achievements.

Byrd
07-24-2009, 03:40 PM
No, Borg is and will always be the Clay Goat.

MatchFederer
07-24-2009, 04:47 PM
No, Borg is and will always be the Clay Goat.

If this is a joke then OK.

If this is a serious comment, then why on EARTH are so many people so insanely dumb? :devil:


LAWLZERS.. I likes Michael Jordan he will always be the basketball GOAT yall YAYA even if somebody is born who achieves more than him and posts better numbers in what i perceive to be a stronger era, than Jordan is Still DA GOAT YALL YAYAYAYA LAWLL. :D :D :D


Ugh. :o

Fiberlight1
07-24-2009, 07:09 PM
If this is a joke then OK.

If this is a serious comment, then why on EARTH are so many people so insanely dumb? :devil:


LAWLZERS.. I likes Michael Jordan he will always be the basketball GOAT yall YAYA even if somebody is born who achieves more than him and posts better numbers in what i perceive to be a stronger era, than Jordan is Still DA GOAT YALL YAYAYAYA LAWLL. :D :D :D


Ugh. :o

Thank you for making a reasonable post.

HKz
07-24-2009, 07:20 PM
Not half as bad as this grasscourt era. At least this clay era has strong baseliners (even if they are the hardcourt styled, though that can be good as they are attacking more rather than moonballing). No bigtime serve-volleyers at Wimbledon.

False.

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 08:37 PM
I was alluding to the fact that if a player is winning a certain tournament year after year, then in that period he is clearly the dominant player. So the strength, and in particular the number of challengers to that player's reign during that stretch, are largely irrelevant in a comparison between two players with similar achievements.

:confused::scratch:

No, Borg is and will always be the Clay Goat.

:cool:

Sapeod
07-24-2009, 08:44 PM
Like i said before, in order to be the clear CCG he would have to beat Borg's record. Just tying it wont be enough, because slams are what matter in the final analysis.



:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Expected from the ultimate fangirl :o
Yep. Agreed. He needs to win what..3 more? Yeah, 3 more. I can't see him doing that ATM

Moriano
07-24-2009, 08:47 PM
In my opinion, Rafa is the best Clay-courter ever. But to be the greatest he needs to tie Borg's 6 FO. I think his 81-match win streak and several masters titles on clay will put him ahead of Borg if he could get as many FO as him.

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 08:55 PM
Yep. Agreed. He needs to win what..3 more? Yeah, 3 more. I can't see him doing that ATM

He can but it will be tough. He will have to do what Roger did this year after he was written off, which is a tall order.

In my opinion, Rafa is the best Clay-courter ever. But to be the greatest he needs to tie Borg's 6 FO. I think his 81-match win streak and several masters titles on clay will put him ahead of Borg if he could get as many FO as him.

That will be the problem if he only ties Borg. There will be no clear clay court GOAT. The Borg fans will always say that they won an equal amount of slams, which of course is a fair argument. Borg won 5 Wimbys as well, and i cant see Rafa doing that, no ways. Therefor Borg will most probably go down as better then Rafa anyway. Unless Rafa beats his 6 RG titles and end up with more then 11 GS titles. Right now that is hard to imagine.

Fiberlight1
07-24-2009, 09:04 PM
He can but it will be tough. He will have to do what Roger did this year after he was written off, which is a tall order.



That will be the problem if he only ties Borg. There will be no clear clay court GOAT. The Borg fans will always say that they won an equal amount of slams, which of course is a fair argument. Borg won 5 Wimbys as well, and i cant see Rafa doing that, no ways. Therefor Borg will most probably go down as better then Rafa anyway. Unless Rafa beats his 6 RG titles and end up with more then 11 GS titles. Right now that is hard to imagine.

What does Rafa winning wimbledon five times have to do with him being the greatest of all time on clay?

MacTheKnife
07-24-2009, 09:06 PM
What does Rafa winning wimbledon five times have to do with him being the greatest of all time on clay?

Nothing if he does it. :confused:

Moriano
07-24-2009, 09:07 PM
He can but it will be tough. He will have to do what Roger did this year after he was written off, which is a tall order.



That will be the problem if he only ties Borg. There will be no clear clay court GOAT. The Borg fans will always say that they won an equal amount of slams, which of course is a fair argument. Borg won 5 Wimbys as well, and i cant see Rafa doing that, no ways. Therefor Borg will most probably go down as better then Rafa anyway. Unless Rafa beats his 6 RG titles and end up with more then 11 GS titles. Right now that is hard to imagine.

Yeah, I'd agree that Borg will probably be recognized as the better overall player but I think that Rafa's accomplishments in his career will surpass Borg on clay, but there's no way to know that now. Only time will tell.

Sapeod
07-24-2009, 09:07 PM
In my opinion, Rafa is the best Clay-courter ever. But to be the greatest he needs to tie Borg's 6 FO. I think his 81-match win streak and several masters titles on clay will put him ahead of Borg if he could get as many FO as him.
No, he will have to win more than Borg. Tying it is not good enough. It's about beating it.

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 09:08 PM
What does Rafa winning wimbledon five times have to do with him being the greatest of all time on clay?

Nothing. I was comparing him with Borg in terms of overall career.

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 09:10 PM
No, he will have to win more than Borg. Tying it is not good enough. It's about beating it.

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Tell them how it is Sapeod :devil:

Moriano
07-24-2009, 09:15 PM
No, he will have to win more than Borg. Tying it is not good enough. It's about beating it.

Yeah I agree it's about beating it, but if he gets the same amount of Fo and he already got the longest win-streak on clay and if he continues to dominate clay as he done up to this point I would regard him as the greatest clay-courter of all time but thats's just me.
I'm not a Rafa-fan but I have to acknowledge his prowess on clay, I think he'll be remembered as the perhaps the best on clay but I hope Borg will remain as the best ever.

Sapeod
07-24-2009, 09:26 PM
Yeah I agree it's about beating it, but if he gets the same amount of Fo and he already got the longest win-streak on clay and if he continues to dominate clay as he done up to this point I would regard him as the greatest clay-courter of all time but thats's just me.
I'm not a Rafa-fan but I have to acknowledge his prowess on clay, I think he'll be remembered as the perhaps the best on clay but I hope Borg will remain as the best ever.
Yes, I see where you're going with that, but to be the certain GOAT of clay he has to win more RG than Borg. If he ties it then he will be a debatable GOAT.

Moriano
07-24-2009, 09:34 PM
Yes, I see where you're going with that, but to be the certain GOAT of clay he has to win more RG than Borg. If he ties it then he will be a debatable GOAT.

Yeah, it's hard to get a clear GOAT of something, only time will tell. But I have to stop debating now, off of the Clubs for me :D

Burrow
07-24-2009, 09:35 PM
Not half as bad as this grasscourt era. At least this clay era has strong baseliners (even if they are the hardcourt styled, though that can be good as they are attacking more rather than moonballing). No bigtime serve-volleyers at Wimbledon.

pretty much, i mean, nadal winning wimbledon :spit:

ORGASMATRON
07-24-2009, 09:38 PM
pretty much, i mean, nadal winning wimbledon :spit:

PWNED

Sapeod
07-24-2009, 10:05 PM
PWNED
ASSRAPED :haha:

vamosinator
07-25-2009, 03:23 AM
Like I said, I think Wimbledon will end up being the slam Nadal is known for. He will end up skipping a lot of the claycourt season as he gets older and will just waltz into Wimbledon which requires no leadup events and win it over and over again in the weakest grass era of all-time. Wimbledon is Nadal's favorite slam and it tailors nicely for his abbreviated schedule which will now be.

swebright
07-25-2009, 03:28 AM
He has peaked. His results won't be as consistent as before. It's not that there'll be more claycourt specialists. Others will beat him at baseline hardcourt style game/precision and power.

kooties
07-25-2009, 03:44 AM
2 more and he will be, his auxillary clay credentaials are better than Borgs anyway.

Pirao666
06-11-2011, 01:10 PM
Talk about fail :haha:

careergrandslam
06-11-2011, 02:55 PM
for those people saying that borg is still clay GOAT, name me a single stat that borg is above nadal on clay?

im not talking about who's era is stronger or coulda, shoulda, woulda bullsh*t.

im talking about facts, numbers.

nadal has more clay titles, longer winning streak, same number of FO, better overall winning %, better finals winning %, 7 consecutive monte carlos, 6 barcelonas, 5 romes, 2 hamburg/madrid, 6 French Opens. nadal has more clay titles won without dropping a set than borg, nadal's record at the FO is far more dominant than borg, nadal has lost far fewer sets at the FO than borg. nadal and borg both have won the FO twice without dropping a set.


there is nothing that borg has over nadal on clay. NOTHING.

therefore its pretty easy to decide who is the clay GOAT......its Rafael Nadal.

born_on_clay
06-11-2011, 03:52 PM
He's already CLAY GOAT :hatoff: