Where are the stars? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Where are the stars?

safinafan
07-15-2009, 06:06 PM
Maybe it's time to rethink the current formula for the Davis Cup, or at least review the calendar. The competition still has an unparalleled thrill, but where are the stars? We should not forget or pretend it did not happen, but the collapse started for one reason: the removal of the main players, unable to concentrate in two tournaments at the same time( doubles and singles) and the need for more time between the schedules.

Today the players, who are in leadership positions, lost interest in the Davis Cup. Pete Sampras fight to be number 1 and said that The Davis Cup spent until 4 weeks of his schedule and this is the same time spent in 2 Grand Slams.

Today, Roger Federer uses another tactic. Only enter into action to prevent the demotion of Switzerland, which leaves an obvious fact: there is no plans to give four weeks of his year to represent his country in Davis.

The semifinals this year reflect this. Ironically, the first round of The Davis became the most important. If a country wins and flees the recap, the stars are also fleeing from the competition. How to require of a main tennis player, which dispute the final of a Grand Slam, to follow days in totally different conditions,exposing themselves to injuries and disappointments.


If Davis doesn't go through changes, the current system will persist. The large, traditional teams are out of the finals, with the exception of the current champion Spain.

Spain is assured in the semifinals and has the advantage of playing at home in front of Israel, which eliminated Russia without Davydenko. The United States, without the vice-champion of Wimbledon, Andy Roddick, fell forward from Croatia, who will face the Czech Republic.

In the great moments, The Davis Cupis is incomparable. Ranking leaders which reached the final and won the title didn't feel any regret and never forget the excitement.

Discuss.

mcnasty
07-15-2009, 06:12 PM
one of two things should be done. compress the tournament to one month or have it every other year to give it more meaning.

Action Jackson
07-15-2009, 06:15 PM
The stars are in the sky.

Nothing to discuss. They already give ranking points for it, when they shouldn't.

Because some primadonnas don't want to play it, the whole structure doesn't have to be changed. Considering DC ties is the way for federations that don't have a Slam to generate revenue.

But of course it's always only about the top few, can't make them play.

kaylee
07-15-2009, 06:18 PM
DC is always scheduled (it seems) right after GS - the top players either are injured, tired, or just don't want to play.

Action Jackson
07-15-2009, 06:21 PM
DC is always scheduled (it seems) right after GS - the top players either are injured, tired, or just don't want to play.

The players actually worked with the ITF to make the schedule more friendly to their needs and the 1st round isn't being played straight after the AO.

oranges
07-15-2009, 06:37 PM
I think you're exaggerating it a bit. Missing a tie due to injuries and the similar has always been a part of it. Other than Fed playing mainly play-offs, who really misses many ties? Perhaps they could schedule it better by not having ties immediately after a slam, but that's about it. Can't make anyone play if they don't feel like it.

one of two things should be done. compress the tournament to one month or have it every other year to give it more meaning.

A resounding NO from me on both accounts for so many reasons that I can't be bothered to write them all.

mcnasty
07-15-2009, 07:03 PM
A resounding NO from me on both accounts for so many reasons that I can't be bothered to write them all.

A resounding no even if the premise to reformat Davis Cup is to entice the top players to participate?

Action Jackson
07-15-2009, 07:06 PM
A resounding no even if the premise to reformat Davis Cup is to entice the top players to participate?

Exactly.

oranges
07-15-2009, 07:11 PM
A resounding no even if the premise to reformat Davis Cup is to entice the top players to participate?

For starters, how is 4 weeks back to back DC ties going to entice anyone to participate?

mcnasty
07-15-2009, 07:11 PM
Exactly.

So the premise is ill conceived.

Action Jackson
07-15-2009, 07:12 PM
For starters, how is 4 weeks back to back DC ties going to entice anyone to participate?

Then there are the Federations, who are going to less money than they do now. What surface is it going to be.

It's like Hewitt, he would never have played in South America if it wasn't for DC. Like going to Australia, it's going to be on a fast surface and so on.

4 weeks in one place, no way.

mcnasty
07-15-2009, 07:19 PM
For starters, how is 4 weeks back to back DC ties going to entice anyone to participate?

It's certainly not working the way it's set up now with regards to drawing the top players.

Action Jackson
07-15-2009, 07:27 PM
You can't force players play to DC, if they need to be begged with bullshit incentives, that isn't going to help.

It's not just about the stars. Sampras didn't care about DC before he won it 95 and didn't care afterwards. Connors and Chang never cared for it.

oranges
07-15-2009, 07:27 PM
It's certainly not working the way it's set up now with regards to drawing the top players.

Again, who aside from Federer is missing more than an odd tie?

mcnasty
07-15-2009, 07:37 PM
Again, who aside from Federer is missing more than an odd tie?

The World Cup without Brazil due to indifference would lessen the prestige of winning it by a tad, wouldn't you say?

oranges
07-15-2009, 07:52 PM
The World Cup without Brazil due to indifference would lessen the prestige of winning it by a tad, wouldn't you say?

The guy doesn't want to play it apart from the play-offs :shrug: 4 weeks in a row is hardly going to make him change his mind and frankly I don't see what would. AJ mentioned some objective obstacles to organizing it that way. There are countless other reasons against it.

Goldenoldie
07-15-2009, 08:04 PM
Some people are proud to play for their country, whether it's tennis, football or tiddleywinks. Others are not, and if they are not, nothing is going to change them.

MacTheKnife
07-15-2009, 08:11 PM
There have always been guys that chose not to play and injuries are always an issue. No need to change the process to try to correct either of these issues.
I believe the majority of guys play when asked, but there always has been and always will be some exceptions. Then you can just think of them like I always did Conners and move on.

Mac always seemed to find time to work it in and still leads the US in matches played, matches won, years played, and ties played. Also equals the Bryans on doubles wins and was part of 5 winning DC teams.

kyleskywalker007
07-15-2009, 10:09 PM
Look up to the sky and you will see the stars. Some imaginative minds have also grouped them in constelations so they are more easily spotted. With that in mind, you shouldn't have trouble finding them:wavey:

safinafan
07-18-2009, 04:36 AM
Some people are proud to play for their country, whether it's tennis, football or tiddleywinks. Others are not, and if they are not, nothing is going to change them.
I totally agree,
there is not more value in defending your country, make money is what is important.

GlennMirnyi
07-18-2009, 05:12 AM
Only gloryhunters care about top players anyway.

Nothing better than a live 5th rubber between Juan Mugnacio Chela and Sasa Tuksar.

shotgun
07-18-2009, 05:26 AM
The World Cup without Brazil due to indifference would lessen the prestige of winning it by a tad, wouldn't you say?

Not a good comparison at all. Davis Cup is a national and team event just like the World Cup. Federer not playing DC would be the equivalent of Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi not playing the WC in 2010. Pelé didn't play in 1974, Cruyff didn't play in 1978, did it lessen the prestige of winning these events? Not at all.

safinafan
07-18-2009, 05:29 AM
Only gloryhunters care about top players anyway.

Nothing better than a live 5th rubber between Juan Mugnacio Chela and Sasa Tuksar.

OMG, I love chela, but I fall asleep in the first set :lol:

heya
07-18-2009, 08:24 AM
If you're playing US Davis Cup and need to beat the top players in Slams, you're killing your career.

Of course, Blake is a consistent loser who loves getting praised for doing nothing in any team and individual competition. It doesn't hurt him that he's a Federer gloryhunter and benefits from special treatment in a team of Slam losers who'd rather lose Slam finals than not play for Blake and Pat McEnroe (Federer troll).

When Federer falls down, it's a concern for the team.
When Americans are ill or injured and will lose Davis Cup ties anyway, John, Pat McEnroe and Bud Collins say "there's nothing wrong. The player is just a choker."

Amazing patriots.

feuselino
07-18-2009, 08:38 AM
Some day I hope to understand one of heya's posts... ;)

mcnasty
07-18-2009, 02:30 PM
Not a good comparison at all. Davis Cup is a national and team event just like the World Cup. Federer not playing DC would be the equivalent of Cristiano Ronaldo or Messi not playing the WC in 2010. Pelé didn't play in 1974, Cruyff didn't play in 1978, did it lessen the prestige of winning these events? Not at all.

My point is that Davis Cup is so formatted that indifference to it by some of the sport's top names are understandable. I'm sure soccer's best have missed a World Cup or two, but I doubt the reasons behind them are because playing the World Cup is a nuissance and an inconvenience to their schedules and agendas.

oranges
07-18-2009, 03:00 PM
My point is that Davis Cup is so formatted that indifference to it by some of the sport's top names are understandable. I'm sure soccer's best have missed a World Cup or two, but I doubt the reasons behind them are because playing the World Cup is a nuissance and an inconvenience to their schedules and agendas.

... and yet 99% of the tour doesn't find it a nuisance and inconvenience. Those who do, it's not due to scheduling. A different schedule could have resulted in Roddick playing the latest QF, but that is the guy dedicated to it, not the one you keep harping about.

One point you keep missing in the comparison is that we are talking about an individual sport vs a team sport. DC tilting tennis towards the latter is not everyone's cup of tea. No amount of changes to the format will ever change that.

nobama
07-18-2009, 03:10 PM
Why do people care if Fed plays DC or not? Where is the evidence that him not playing is tarnishing the prestige of DC? The Swiss obviously don't much care, or think his achievements as an individual represent Switzerland more than DC title would. If it really bothered them that he doesn't play DC I doubt they would have stuck his face on a postage stamp. :shrug:

mcnasty
07-18-2009, 04:13 PM
... and yet 99% of the tour doesn't find it a nuisance and inconvenience. Those who do, it's not due to scheduling. A different schedule could have resulted in Roddick playing the latest QF, but that is the guy dedicated to it, not the one you keep harping about.

One point you keep missing in the comparison is that we are talking about an individual sport vs a team sport. DC tilting tennis towards the latter is not everyone's cup of tea. No amount of changes to the format will ever change that.

I'm only echoing John McEnroe, Davis Cup's number one advocate.

And his contention is that only a tennis buff is aware of DC and that's a shame when it could be so much more. Ryder Cup, golf's version of Davis Cup, for instance, gets as much coverage as any major sporting event.

Action Jackson
07-18-2009, 04:37 PM
Why do people care if Fed plays DC or not? Where is the evidence that him not playing is tarnishing the prestige of DC? The Swiss obviously don't much care, or think his achievements as an individual represent Switzerland more than DC title would. If it really bothered them that he doesn't play DC I doubt they would have stuck his face on a postage stamp. :shrug:

Funny you start making appearances on GM as soon as Federer started winning again, and went MIA when he was struggling.

I'm not saying anything original. In fact I'm only echoing John McEnroe, Davis Cup's number one advocate.

And his contention is that only a tennis buff is aware of DC and that's a shame when it could be so much more.

He is bandwagoner and is pissed off that his time as DC captain wasn't successful.

mr_burns
07-18-2009, 04:43 PM
I always liked the idea to play it every 2nd year, the value is also higher if it is not every year
but honestly the stars are there...federer is nearly the only one who skips it regulary without injury.

Nadal; djokovic (even Murry although GB is a little hopeless with him alone), del porto, Verdasco,Tsonga, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick( was the first time in years he missed a tie,--)
I really don't see that big lack of stars

dam0dred
07-18-2009, 04:59 PM
I'm sure a few things about the Davis Cup format could be fine tuned to make it more player friendly but it's really not about the stars, for me at least. I went to the Canada-Ecuador tie here in Toronto and, despite the fact that there were no big names involved, it was completely sold out and the atmosphere was incredible - and Canada isn't even really a tennis nation. I can just imagine what a more high stakes tie in Europe or South America would be like.

Leave well enough alone I say.

Harmless
07-18-2009, 05:00 PM
Isn't the whole idea of Davis Cup to play as a team representing a nation, not as individual players?
So what's the big deal if a "star player" skips it, it's not supposed to matter to the spirit of the competition anyway, it's a team thing. :shrug:

Also this way you get to see lower ranked players that you might not get the chance to see often(or ever...) since they either don't make it past the early rounds or are always scheduled on unstreamed courts in big tournaments.
I actually got to see Bob Bryan play singles, for the first time ever, in the Karanusic match in this Croatia-USA tie, I was always wondering how he plays singles.
Had Roddick been there, Blake or Fish would probably play the dead rubber(uhm, if there was one, that is... :unsure:).

I don't really see a problem with the Top5/Top10 missing the DC, it can add variety to the ties. :shrug:

mcnasty
07-18-2009, 05:14 PM
I'm sure a few things about the Davis Cup format could be fine tuned to make it more player friendly but it's really not about the stars, for me at least. I went to the Canada-Ecuador tie here in Toronto and, despite the fact that there were no big names involved, it was completely sold out and the atmosphere was incredible - and Canada isn't even really a tennis nation. I can just imagine what a more high stakes tie in Europe or South America would be like.

Leave well enough alone I say.

Best places to check out low ranked players: qualifying rounds of majors AND it's free at Flushing Meadows.

heya
07-18-2009, 10:37 PM
Davis Cup destroys your fitness and mental health if you always bounce from not taking clay tennis seriously and taking the responsibility of winning the year's final tie too seriously. It really made Roddick lie and exaggerate opponents' intelligence level to draw attention away from his own irresponsible decisions.
Davis Cup ended Roddick's chance of ever achieving stardom. He just told Tennis channel last October,"I don't have enough talent. I work extremely hard. :rolleyes:" "I don't know if it's in my make up to not care about clay tennis.",
If I don't mind seeing bad and old players, I watch tennis exhibitions where money is well-spent. Sampras and John McEnroe always rubbed their tongues on Federer's face in these exhibitions.

Har-Tru
07-19-2009, 12:19 AM
problem is the second round is horribly scheduled.

Serenidad
07-19-2009, 02:25 AM
I actually got to see Bob Bryan play singles, for the first time ever,

Was he better than Blake at least?

MacTheKnife
07-19-2009, 04:04 AM
Was he better than Blake at least?

He was smarter than Blake, but that's not saying much. He had problems returning from the side he never returns from in doubles.

Serenidad
07-19-2009, 04:05 AM
Interesting. Did he try a lot of serve/volley or net-rushing, or did he play mostly from the baseline hitting FHs?

He has a big enough serve and enough experience to compete especially given that he is a capable volleyer. There's also the issues of maybe his movement and overall quality of his baseline game given that he hasn't played singles in a long time.

Harmless
07-19-2009, 11:13 AM
Was he better than Blake at least?

:lol:
So much hate for Blake. :awww:

But, yeah, as Glen says, he was smarter then Blake. (Doubles players usually are, from what I've seen)
Still had a few typical doubles transition problems.


Interesting. Did he try a lot of serve/volley or net-rushing, or did he play mostly from the baseline hitting FHs?

He has a big enough serve and enough experience to compete especially given that he is a capable volleyer. There's also the issues of maybe his movement and overall quality of his baseline game given that he hasn't played singles in a long time.

He played from the baseline a lot. The big problem he had, at least the way I saw it, is that he still had a little bit of that doubles mentality in him, sometimes he just couldn't finish the point off, it was like he was still not 100% used to the fact that there's no one else to help finish it off. :lol:

But mostly, it was Roko's usual mugginess that got Bob the win. :mad:
Roko just being Roko, he plays well, clever, and then goes for too much when he's in the lead, he starts showing off, messes up, bla bla, same old story. :rolleyes:
Bob was just more clutch in the end, had a good mentality.

Crazy Girl
07-19-2009, 11:22 AM
:topic:Harm, (Maya?) You've asked me if I could like to vote in pics of Roger. I had already lurked since many time. It's a bit difficult for me.Too long!! May I post just my favourites without number, ecc..and with spicy comments???!! Rep me there!:topic:

HKz
07-19-2009, 11:31 AM
Honestly the only real star missing is Federer. A top pro's schedule is quite full I would imagine with a solid amount of tournaments to enter, usually 1 every 2-3 weeks, time for interviews, time for training, time for family, time for sponsoring/promoting and just putting time aside for time itself. Adding DC to a lot of player's schedule is quite tiresome I would think and can throw off many players' schedules. Honestly, DC excitement has waned over the years, but it is still a solid event to watch. At the same time, I know that players don't decide to play DC from fear of overplaying/injury, because I'm pretty sure they would be kicking their heads forever if they got a serious injury or problem from playing DC affecting their regular season play.