And what about the fifth star rising? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

And what about the fifth star rising?

DJ Soup
06-13-2009, 10:28 PM
How well do you think Delpo will do in the next 2 Grand Slams?


Wimbledon is the last court Delpo has to prove his skills on. He is danger both on clay and hard. What about grass? Will the low bounce play a lot against him? He's learning to respond those shots.

I think it is safe to say Delpo will make quarterfinals on both GS, and should get to semi finals at the US Open.

luie
06-13-2009, 10:32 PM
Who are the current 4,there is only nadull & fedmug.

Andi-M
06-13-2009, 10:51 PM
I think US open will welcome another new face in the final this year....2007 Nole 2008 Murray 2009 Del Potro??. He'll make QFs of Wimbledon.

GlennMirnyi
06-13-2009, 11:03 PM
Fifth star... :haha: :haha:

safinafan
06-13-2009, 11:40 PM
according to the last results of nole,I believe that he will become number 4 in the next year!

rubbERR
06-13-2009, 11:44 PM
Djokovic is doing fine, 3 masterseries finals this year + 2 other titles.

peribsen
06-14-2009, 12:13 AM
I really don´t think Delpo is quite at Djoko's or Murray's level yet, far less Nadal´s, far less Roger´s. I do think he is on the rise and may someday reach them. And I hope he does, the more the merrier.

Anyway, he speaks Spanish, so he's got the makings of a great player!! lol

safinafan
06-14-2009, 12:27 AM
speak spanish is the most important thing to become a campeon :haha:

Ciarán.
06-14-2009, 12:31 AM
He is not the fifth star. Jesus. Monfils and Nishikori, if their bodies hold up :rolleyes: can do many great things.

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 12:34 AM
:haha:

And it gets better.

Monfils fifth star... :lol:

finishingmove
06-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Jesus, Monfils and Nishikori, if their bodies hold up :rolleyes: can do many great things.

good for them

MacTheKnife
06-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Could be a shooting star..

Caralimon
06-14-2009, 12:36 AM
He is not the fifth star. Jesus. Monfils and Nishikori, if their bodies hold up :rolleyes: can do many great things.

What about Wawrinka? He's tearing up the challenger tour

Gonna be great

DJ Soup
06-14-2009, 12:36 AM
He is not the fifth star. Jesus. Monfils and Nishikori, if their bodies hold up :rolleyes: can do many great things.

Consistence has been Delpo's middle name so far

rubbERR
06-14-2009, 12:37 AM
GlennMirnyi obviously thinks that Radek Stepanek is the fifth star, nothing less.

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 12:38 AM
Consistence has been Delpo's middle name so far

I thought it was "Mug". :shrug:

Juan Martin Mug del Pony.

DJ Soup
06-14-2009, 12:45 AM
I thought it was "Mug". :shrug:

Juan Martin Mug del Pony.
nope

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 12:47 AM
nope

"Clown" then?

"Unidimensional"?

"He who sobs like a little girl"?

FedFan_2007
06-14-2009, 01:30 AM
GlennMirnyiMug

finishingmove
06-14-2009, 01:34 AM
caprica = mugness

Har-Tru
06-14-2009, 01:39 AM
He is not the fifth star. Jesus. Monfils and Nishikori, if their bodies hold up :rolleyes: can do many great things.

wishful thinking mate.

Black Adam
06-14-2009, 01:47 AM
Like fellow countrymen,expect him to choke when it actually matters.

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 01:56 AM
GlennMirnyiMug

Lame.

Keep trying.

munZe konZa
06-14-2009, 01:59 AM
How well do you think Delpo will do in the next 2 Grand Slams?


Wimbledon is the last court Delpo has to prove his skills on. He is danger both on clay and hard. What about grass? Will the low bounce play a lot against him? He's learning to respond those shots.

I think it is safe to say Delpo will make quarterfinals on both GS, and should get to semi finals at the US Open.

Delpotro would be the greatest in my book if he just won that semi in Roland Garros :angel:

Audacity
06-14-2009, 02:04 AM
:haha:

And it gets better.

Monfils fifth star... :lol:

lol

There's no way Del Pony is going to win grand slams at his level.

FedFan_2007
06-14-2009, 02:09 AM
DelPo will win slams when he turns 22.

heya
06-14-2009, 03:35 AM
Fed
Fed
Fed
Fed
Sampras
old Laver
Borg

Listen to the media. Douche.

Har-Tru
06-14-2009, 04:04 AM
Fed
Fed
Fed
Fed
Sampras
old Laver
Borg

Listen to the media. Douche.

it's official: you've lost it.

MalwareDie
06-14-2009, 04:05 AM
Mug Pony can't ever be a star since he's not even and never will be a third of the player that Nalbandian is. He has an ugly game and an ugly face. This weak mug era allows Pony to have a high ranking.

DJ Soup
06-14-2009, 04:38 AM
Undoubtly, I like Nalbandian a whole lotta more.
But when it comes to effectiveness, Delpo is rightfully fifth of the world, and is starting to bother those above him.

vamosinator
06-14-2009, 04:42 AM
Del Potro I find a more impessive player than Djokovic. If anyone is going to replace Federer at number2 for years to come it will be Murray or Del Potro:o

Goldenoldie
06-14-2009, 12:01 PM
Let's see how he does the rest of the year before bigging him up too much

Burrow
06-14-2009, 12:17 PM
He is not the fifth star. Jesus. Monfils and Nishikori, if their bodies hold up :rolleyes: can do many great things.

Monfils and NISHIKORI? Number 5 in the world?

LocoPorElTenis
06-14-2009, 01:38 PM
Wimbledon is a big question for Pony, he serves well but his relatively poor movement, lack of experience/preparation on the grass and low bounce will all be challenges for him. Assuming he doesn't draw a grass specialist early on, he can make the second week but that would already be a good result.

The US open has the surface most suitable to Pony's game. He should make at least QF, a SF or F is possible but far from easy, I think he's at a comparable level to Murray and Nadal on hard, and a bit lower than Djokovic and Federer.

delpiero7
06-14-2009, 01:55 PM
Mug Pony can't ever be a star since he's not even and never will be a third of the player that Nalbandian is. He has an ugly game and an ugly face. This weak mug era allows Pony to have a high ranking.

I forgot that the only reason that Nalbandian hasn't won a slam is becuase he played in such a strong era. He pretty much fulfilled his potential by reaching number 3 in the strongest era ever.

Oh, wait a minute...

MalwareDie
06-14-2009, 06:03 PM
I forgot that the only reason that Nalbandian hasn't won a slam is becuase he played in such a strong era. He pretty much fulfilled his potential by reaching number 3 in the strongest era ever.

Oh, wait a minute...

I never suggested that he played in a strong era. All I am implying is that Del Potro can't surpass Nalbandian and hence will not be a star since Nalbandian isn't one.

rubbERR
06-14-2009, 06:05 PM
del Potro will be much better player than Nalbandian has ever been.

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 06:06 PM
del Potro will be much better player than Nalbandian has ever been.

If he's born again, that is?

I hate Nalbandian, but he's 1000x the player Del Pony the crybaby is.

Commander Data
06-14-2009, 06:23 PM
Del the Terminator Potro is young, strong and big. He improves fast.

I think Nole Rafa and Murray already show some signs of wear, while Del Pony is just starting to arrive. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins a couple Slams and gets to no. Because once Fed fades away, Nole, Rafa and Murray might already be on the downward way as well, while Del Pony hits his peak.

Commander Data
06-14-2009, 06:25 PM
If he's born again, that is?

I hate Nalbandian, but he's 1000x the player Del Pony the crybaby is.

you hate almost anybody.. :rolleyes:


Sampras and Söderling being the exception or are there more?!

Clydey
06-14-2009, 06:39 PM
Wimbledon is a big question for Pony, he serves well but his relatively poor movement, lack of experience/preparation on the grass and low bounce will all be challenges for him. Assuming he doesn't draw a grass specialist early on, he can make the second week but that would already be a good result.

The US open has the surface most suitable to Pony's game. He should make at least QF, a SF or F is possible but far from easy, I think he's at a comparable level to Murray and Nadal on hard, and a bit lower than Djokovic and Federer.

Huh? Djokovic and Federer are above Nadal and Murray on hard suddenly? It's the other way around based on the points for the last 12 months on hard courts. It's also the other way around based on H2Hs on hard in the last year.

Murray 3-0 Djokovic
Murray 5-1 Federer

Del Potro has lost twice to Murray on hard. Unless he beats him or even gets close to matching Murray or Nadal's results on hard, he is not on their level.

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 06:44 PM
you hate almost anybody.. :rolleyes:


Sampras and Söderling being the exception or are there more?!

Why do you care? Do you want to be my friend?

I pass.


I'm polite, though. I'll, therefore, answer your question.

I didn't hate Edberg, Rafter, Becker... you get my point. :)

LocoPorElTenis
06-14-2009, 06:51 PM
Huh? Djokovic and Federer are above Nadal and Murray on hard suddenly? It's the other way around based on the points for the last 12 months on hard courts. It's also the other way around based on H2Hs on hard in the last year.

Murray 3-0 Djokovic
Murray 5-1 Federer

Del Potro has lost twice to Murray on hard. Unless he beats him or even gets close to matching Murray or Nadal's results on hard, he is not on their level.

Murray tends to underperform at GSs. Potro gave him two close matches on hard while being exhausted both times and beat him on clay. Besides, he has improved heaps since they last met on hard. Murray would probably be a slight favorite against Del Potro at the USO, but only slight. Djokovic isn't better than Murray on hard (probably about even), but Murray is a bad matchup for Djokovic and Djokovic is a bad matchup for Del Potro. At the US Open, Federer is clearly favorite over Murray despite of (or because of) the H2H.

Clydey
06-14-2009, 07:25 PM
Murray tends to underperform at GSs. Potro gave him two close matches on hard while being exhausted both times and beat him on clay. Besides, he has improved heaps since they last met on hard. Murray would probably be a slight favorite against Del Potro at the USO, but only slight. Djokovic isn't better than Murray on hard (probably about even), but Murray is a bad matchup for Djokovic and Djokovic is a bad matchup for Del Potro. At the US Open, Federer is clearly favorite over Murray despite of (or because of) the H2H.

Funny how Del Potro always seems to be exhausted when he plays Murray. Getting to the semi-finals of Miami really took it out of him, did it? It's not like he had played a lot of tennis before their last match, so fatigue is certainly not an excuse. Murray is clearly superior to Del Potro on hard, both in terms of results and in terms of their H2H.

I'm not sure how Del Potro could have improved as much as you say in the last 2 months. He looks like the same player to me. He beat Nadal (which was a great result and performance) and then lost to Murray. Also, clay doesn't factor into how they matchup on hard. Murray is a solid 8-12 seed on clay. He's very beatable on that surface.

As I've said before, Murray has only played 14 grand slams. The first 6 he played were in 2005 and 2006 (2006 was his first full year on tour). I don't think anyone expected him to be challenging for majors in his first full year on tour. He basically missed 3 out of 4 grand slams in 2007 (participated in the US Open, but still couldn't hit a top spin forehand properly).

In 2008 he was unfortunate at the AO. He drew Tsonga in the first round, who proceeded to tear through the draw. He reached the quarters at Wimbledon, losing to the eventual winner. He reached the final of the US Open, beating Nadal along the way.

At AO 09, he was again a little unlucky to draw the surprise package of the tournament and come down with a virus that prevented him from practicing. He then reached the quarters of the French, which was probably about the best you would expect from him on clay.

When you break it down, you can hardly say he has underperformed at the slams. A lot of people forget that he missed the most important part of 2007. I'll be judging him on Wimbledon and the US Open. He's healthy now and he's confident. He has no excuses to not reach at least the semis of Wimbledon and the final of the US Open. That's the minimum I'd expect from the last 2 majors. No excuses if he doesn't meet those expectations.

Har-Tru
06-14-2009, 07:29 PM
and of course, Clydey turns this into a Murray thread.

Clydey
06-14-2009, 07:32 PM
and of course, Clydey turns this into a Murray thread.

Was hardly my intention. Someone said something I disagreed with (also involving Nadal) and I replied. If you don't like it, don't read it. :shrug:

ballbasher101
06-14-2009, 07:57 PM
At only 20 Del-pony really is delivering. He has beaten Murray and Nadal this year which shows you that he means business. When he learns to use his serve effectively in the next year or 2 watch out. He is the 5th best player no doubt about that.

FedFan_2007
06-14-2009, 08:01 PM
At only 20 Del-pony really is delivering. He has beaten Murray and Nadal this year which shows you that he means business. When he learns to use his serve effectively in the next year or 2 watch out. He is the 5th best player no doubt about that.

He has to beat Federer to get to the next level. That is his assignment should he choose to accept it.

miura
06-14-2009, 08:05 PM
I can't see Del Potro getting further than the QF's.

ballbasher101
06-14-2009, 08:05 PM
He has to beat Federer to get to the next level. That is his assignment should he choose to accept it.


Federer has too much variety for him at this moment in time. He might be able to beat him in the next few years or so, I for one hope that is not the case :D.

scoobs
06-14-2009, 08:09 PM
I'm surprised Del Potro is playing no grass tournaments to warm up - I think he's playing the boodles exo but that's only 1 or 2 hit and giggle matches.

prima donna
06-14-2009, 08:10 PM
Federer has too much variety for him at this moment in time.
I can't believe people are still using this line after the Roland Garros SF.

FedFan_2007
06-14-2009, 08:12 PM
Federer has too much variety for him at this moment in time. He might be able to beat him in the next few years or so, I for one hope that is not the case :D.

Bullshit. DelPo was just a little bit extra fitness from being able to win that match. If he can get his fitness to the next level, then anything is possible for the Argentinian Slayer.

ballbasher101
06-14-2009, 08:13 PM
I can't believe people are still using this line after the Roland Garros SF.

Federer was very nervous during the Frech open that is why he did not play his best until the final.

Clydey
06-14-2009, 08:14 PM
I can't believe people are still using this line after the Roland Garros SF.

I think it applies off of the clay. Even Federer employs a more straightforward game on clay. For example, you can break DP's back with the slice on other surfaces. Clay renders that tactic useless.

prima donna
06-14-2009, 08:16 PM
Federer was very nervous during the Frech open that is why he did not play his best until the final.
That excuse might be valid for his performance against Haas, but not so in the case of his 5-set affair in the SF against Del Potro.

Del Potro played great tennis. Moreover, if he's able to serve as he was on that day, he's a legitimate threat on all surfaces. Give credit where credit is due, otherwise reality will come back to bite you in the ass once Roger goes back to losing matches.

rubbERR
06-14-2009, 08:17 PM
slice is pretty useless, weak powerless players uses it

rocketassist
06-14-2009, 08:17 PM
Del Potro needs to win a title of AMS level first before he can even be considered in with the top 4 guys.

Clydey
06-14-2009, 08:18 PM
slice is pretty useless

Do you even watch tennis?

FedFan_2007
06-14-2009, 08:18 PM
I agree DelPo needs to win a Masters title first. I think Montreal/Cincy are good candidates for that.

ballbasher101
06-14-2009, 08:19 PM
Bullshit. DelPo was just a little bit extra fitness from being able to win that match. If he can get his fitness to the next level, then anything is possible for the Argentinian Slayer.

It is true that Delpony could have won that match but come on Federer was dropping sets for fun at the French. He could have lost against Haas and Acassuso.

rubbERR
06-14-2009, 08:21 PM
he was dropping sets because he is not that good afterall ;)

ballbasher101
06-14-2009, 08:26 PM
he was dropping sets because he is not that good afterall ;)


I for one do not usually agree with Wilander but I think that he was right when he said that Federer was struggling as a result of trying new things in matches in preparation for a possible match with Nadal. Federer was outside of his comfort zone as a result of tweaking his game slightly.

Serenidad
06-14-2009, 08:36 PM
How well do you think Delpo will do in the next 2 Grand Slams?


Wimbledon is the last court Delpo has to prove his skills on. He is danger both on clay and hard. What about grass? Will the low bounce play a lot against him? He's learning to respond those shots.

I think it is safe to say Delpo will make quarterfinals on both GS, and should get to semi finals at the US Open.

Which Top 4 player will he upset at USO?

Federer's slice and overall superiority wins.
He can beat Nadal for sure, but this is a slam where mental is more of an issue.
Murray's slice and general game frustrates him.
Djokovic does everything Del Potro does and better if he is on form.

Anyways to Wimbledon. I still see him being upset by maybe a net-rushing type player. I'm not convinced on his passing and handling of slices yet.

Credit to him for being so consistent and trying to beef up his serve.

prima donna
06-14-2009, 08:43 PM
Murray's slice and general game frustrates him.
Not really. Murray's victory over Del Potro at last year's USO was by no means a walk in the park. I think Del Potro has the potential to be a thorn in the side of just about anyone, particularly Murray.

ballbasher101
06-14-2009, 08:46 PM
Del-pony is a tall guy so digging low slices is not exactly a walk in the park for him.

Serenidad
06-14-2009, 08:54 PM
Not really. Murray's victory over Del Potro at last year's USO was by no means a walk in the park. I think Del Potro has the potential to be a thorn in the side of just about anyone, particularly Murray.

Obviously, Del Potro has the potential to be a thorn in the side of anyone. No one is arguing that.

However, despite Del Potro frequently putting himself in the positions of QF/SFs they aren't translating into F on the bigger stages. That is not a coincidence. It is because the four players ahead of him are better. Yes, Del Potro can upset one of them on his day. However, right now Del Potro is rightfully 5 where he belongs. He will need to add more to his game to get to the next level.

All four above him are better movers something Del Potro will never have, so he needs to either add some forecourt prowess or some variety to get to the next level. Until he does that he will get beat by the four players better than him at his own game while they have supplemental dimensions he hasn't unlocked.

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 09:01 PM
and of course, Clydey turns this into a Murray thread.

Did you really expect otherwise?

Clydey
06-14-2009, 09:03 PM
Did you really expect otherwise?

No more surprising than you turning it into an Argentine/Spaniard bashing thread.

GlennMirnyi
06-14-2009, 09:12 PM
No more surprising than you turning it into an Argentine/Spaniard bashing thread.

Yeah, but my bashing scope is way broader.

nkp2
06-14-2009, 09:14 PM
Del Potro will go out in the 4th Round at Wimbledon.

Jaz
06-14-2009, 09:35 PM
Del Potro - Is a winner.

Why? He can serve really, really well.... It's all a confidence game with delpo, if he can win a masters series somewhere, he could be a multiple grandslam winner.

pogotheorist
06-14-2009, 10:21 PM
Young: JMDP is 20. In terms of wins, ranking and Slam achievements he's ahead of Murray at the same age - and Murray roughly tracked Fed's achievements, up to Fed's age-21 Slam. Make a chart of achievements versus age, and you'll see no reason to say JMDP is inferior.

Dramatic recent progress: Improving visibly, passing milestones, week by week. After starting out 0-11 against the Big 4, he's 2-4 in the past 3 months. Look at the trend line versus Fed: never broke or took a set before RG - broke 5 times and took two sets there. Double-bagelled in previous meeting (Australia, on his favorite surface); takes the same Roger to 5 sets on clay (on which Roger's been second-best in the world for years) in RG. With progress that dramatic, the year-long data-set that ranking is based on looks rather stale.

So this:
Federer has too much variety for him at this moment in time. He might be able to beat him in the next few years or so
deserved these:
I can't believe people are still using this line after the Roland Garros SF.
Bullshit. DelPo was just a little bit extra fitness from being able to win that match.

He really was THAT CLOSE to a win, and with it a slam final.

This seems just wrong:
Del Potro needs to win a title of AMS level first before he can even be considered in with the top 4 guys.
He's beaten two of the top 4 at that level in the past three months; they weren't trying to lose. Stringing two of those wins together is enough to win a title; the next step on the ladder he's climbing fast. And: Roger won one AMS event before his first Slam; Rafa and Nole won two - but it's not a law of the universe that the Slam can't come first.

As for this:
despite Del Potro frequently putting himself in the positions of QF/SFs they aren't translating into F on the bigger stages. That is not a coincidence. It is because the four players ahead of him are better... right now Del Potro is rightfully 5 where he belongs. He will need to add more to his game to get to the next level.
Well, he does deserve his #5 at the moment - for performance over the past year, against guys years further along their career paths. Thread topic is - can he go one step further on his own career path in the next 3 months? Can he put two big wins together? Answer: he's done all that's possible to show that he's on the brink; he's the real deal, and in with a shot.

Clydey
06-14-2009, 10:30 PM
Young: JMDP is 20. In terms of wins, ranking and Slam achievements he's ahead of Murray at the same age - and Murray roughly tracked Fed's achievements, up to Fed's age-21 Slam. Make a chart of achievements versus age, and you'll see no reason to say JMDP is inferior.



Murray has played in 14 majors and DP has played in 12. There's not a huge difference in experience. DP has two quarters and a semi, while Murray has two quarters and a final. You can't measure it by age, since not every player turns pro at the same age. It's better to measure based on how many majors they have participated in.

luie
06-14-2009, 11:32 PM
slice is pretty useless, weak powerless players uses it
You lose a lot of credibility with that statement.Just shows you know little about tennis.

miura
06-14-2009, 11:38 PM
You lose a lot of credibility with that statement.Just shows you know little about tennis.
Word. Slice is extremely effective on low bouncing grass courts.

DJ Soup
06-15-2009, 03:03 AM
however, while Delpo only seems to be losing against the Top4, the other guys are losing to guys below the top 5, specially Murray and Djoker

Commander Data
06-15-2009, 12:49 PM
Why do you care? Do you want to be my friend?

I pass.


I'm polite, though. I'll, therefore, answer your question.

I didn't hate Edberg, Rafter, Becker... you get my point. :)

Very polite...You are too kind, master.

I do not easily pick friends, so no, but I'm actually interested in others opinion, therefore I post here ;)

I do not really get your point, sorry. You only like retired people that played good S/V ?

Anyway, I like Rafter too, so thats good to hear.

HKz
06-15-2009, 01:03 PM
Shhh all. Fifth rising star = de Brito. So far she hasn't lost on the ATP and I don't think she will lose even one set for another few years. Her screams destroy players like Federer and even Rafalafa. Fail

Zitov
06-15-2009, 05:32 PM
slice is pretty useless, weak powerless players uses it

You should change your username to "rubbISH", that would be way more appropriate.

rubbERR
06-15-2009, 05:40 PM
only Federer slice is effective, other players cant do it right...so useless shot ;)

Sapeod
06-15-2009, 05:43 PM
only Federer slice is effective, other players cant do it right...so useless shot ;)
Murray has a good slice. Dunno about other players though.

pogotheorist
06-15-2009, 08:41 PM
however, while Delpo only seems to be losing against the Top4, the other guys are losing to guys below the top 5, specially Murray and Djoker
True for Nole this year, not for Andy. Losses this year (Top 5 losses + other losses); H2H vs Top 5:

Rafa 5 (3+2) 8-3
Roger 6 (5+1) 4-5
Andy 6 (3+3) 5-3
Nole 13 (5+8) 3-5
JMDP 9 (6+3) 2-6