Live match threads in GM [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Live match threads in GM

Clydey
06-07-2009, 01:59 AM
RE Scoobs:

No one discusses the matches in the tournament forums. Those threads are empty for a reason. Saying that they should be discussed in the tournament forums isn't a reason. You're just making a statement. Why aren't WWW threads and result threads also in the tournament forums if live match discussion should be in there? You are enforcing rules without bothering to even question them.

What exactly is the downside to discussing live matches in the WWW threads, since they exist in GM anyway? A large chunk of the forum goes elsewhere to discuss live matches. Why not fix the problem and allow discussion in GM? Not one person has stated what the downside is.

Johnny Groove
06-07-2009, 03:07 AM
I think live match posts allowed in the WWW threads would make perfect sense.

Clydey
06-07-2009, 08:18 PM
Scoobs, are you going to respond? You told me to take my concerns here, yet no moderator or admin has responded.

scoobs
06-07-2009, 08:36 PM
You may not have noticed but it's been a pretty interesting day and this hasn't registered high on the priority list.

I don't have any further response to what I already said on this last night.

I will however take it to the mods and admins and we will revisit the issue and decide whether it's worth making some changes or leaving it as it is.

Once that's taken place, and it might take a few days, then I or someone else will come back to you on this thread.

Deboogle!.
06-07-2009, 11:02 PM
Why aren't WWW threads and result threads also in the tournament forums if live match discussion should be in there?Actually, I think a better solution would be that the WWW threads should be in the tournament forums, not allowing live match discussion in the WWW thread. It'd be extremely difficult to moderate. The GM mods are already busy. There used to be live match discussion threads in all the tourney forums every single day. I'm not really sure why or when this stopped, but these threads require almost constant policing because some people have such little tact and respect for their fellow posters and tennis players. I think to ask the GM mods to take this on would be unfair. I do agree it's a consistency problem, and it is one that I myself have brought up to the other mods. I personally think WWW Threads are completely inappropriate for GM.

Also, a lot of people are watching/following more than one match at a time. a WWW thread is for one specific match, so we'd also have to police people talking about multiple matches at once - which is not a problem in OP threads in the tourney forums but would be a HUGE problem in GM if this were allowed. I'm absolutely against allowing match discussions in GM, considering the fact that there is a whole forum for every single tournament. To alleviate the inconsistency, perhaps WWW threads should be put in the tourney forums too, but allowing in-match discussion in GM in any threads would turn into a total mess in my opinion.

Clydey
06-08-2009, 04:26 AM
Actually, I think a better solution would be that the WWW threads should be in the tournament forums, not allowing live match discussion in the WWW thread. It'd be extremely difficult to moderate. The GM mods are already busy. There used to be live match discussion threads in all the tourney forums every single day. I'm not really sure why or when this stopped, but these threads require almost constant policing because some people have such little tact and respect for their fellow posters and tennis players. I think to ask the GM mods to take this on would be unfair. I do agree it's a consistency problem, and it is one that I myself have brought up to the other mods. I personally think WWW Threads are completely inappropriate for GM.

Also, a lot of people are watching/following more than one match at a time. a WWW thread is for one specific match, so we'd also have to police people talking about multiple matches at once - which is not a problem in OP threads in the tourney forums but would be a HUGE problem in GM if this were allowed. I'm absolutely against allowing match discussions in GM, considering the fact that there is a whole forum for every single tournament. To alleviate the inconsistency, perhaps WWW threads should be put in the tourney forums too, but allowing in-match discussion in GM in any threads would turn into a total mess in my opinion.

Every other tennis forum I've been on copes with separate match threads. What on earth makes MTF any different? You guys make out like GM is the busiest forum on the planet. I've moderated forums that are infinitely busier than MTF. It's utter nonsense. If live match discussions aren't allowed in GM, they shouldn't be allowed anywhere. The principle is the same, unless you are moving live match discussion to the tournament forum specifically to keep them quiet. If your intention is to have lively match discussions (as it should be), you're going to have to moderate them. Let's say for argument's sake that match threads in the tournament forum became just as busy as they would be on GM (it's possible since access isn't restricted). What would you do? Ban live match discussions altogether?

This just doesn't wash. Every other tennis forum copes with live match discussions. If a poster gets out of line, delete the post and give an infraction. It's not like the whole forum will be in one thread breaking every rule in the book. That's the whole point of handing out warnings: to stop people from breaking the rules. It's like you guys are trying to decrease the workload, rather than trying to improve the forum. People would stay on MTF instead of buggering off to Tennis Warehouse or some other forum that can be bothered to accommodate live match discussions. If other forums can do it without a problem, so can MTF. Let's not pretend otherwise.

pogotheorist
06-14-2009, 07:16 PM
Actually, I think a better solution would be that the WWW threads should be in the tournament forums... There used to be live match discussion threads in all the tourney forums every single day. I'm not really sure why or when this stopped.
I believe it's the random walk of network effects - interest follows the action, and laziness causes people to post in GM unless prevented - so it becomes the hot spot, and tourney forums are flyblown dereliction zones where only gamblers hang out. If MTF were consistent about pushing match-specific threads such as WWW into the tournament forums, they would come to life again.

What's happened now is not deliberate, but it is a shame. There should be live match threads, as Clydey says; but there's little incentive to start them in a place no-one looks. Have to either allow them back in to the humming urban core, or do some city planning to push traffic and vitality out to the suburbs. ;)

scoobs
06-14-2009, 07:56 PM
There's still a somewhat vigorous discussion going on among the mods as to what we want to do about this.

jayjay
06-14-2009, 09:06 PM
There's still a somewhat vigorous discussion going on among the mods as to what we want to do about this.

Sounds enthralling. Can someone take snap shots of various vigorous posts and then upload them, please. Merci Beaucoup.

Re: a point made earlier in the thread. I don't believe people use other tennis forums other than MTF simply because of a lack of GM live match thread. Other reasons may be that you can get a better discussion elsewhere than MTF at times, for various reasons. As well as the fact MTF servers are a disgrace and they could give a fuck about their paying subscribers - something which has been proven time and again.

Clydey
06-16-2009, 01:10 AM
There's still a somewhat vigorous discussion going on among the mods as to what we want to do about this.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce it for Wimbledon. A sort of grand opening. It could make for some lively GM discussion.

tangerine_dream
06-16-2009, 08:07 PM
Why not do what TW did and create a subforum for live match results on the front page of GM:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13

shotgun
06-16-2009, 08:16 PM
The people that were complaining about the live match threads in the tournament forums being full of gamblers in the past, either moved to the live match threads in the gamblers lounge, or stopped posting at all in the tournament forums. :rolleyes:

I say just move the live scoring threads from the gamblers lounge back to the tournament forums.

LinkMage
06-17-2009, 01:08 AM
Yup, the "OOP & Scores" threads in the tournament forums used to get at least 500 posts per day (usually much more) but they were killed by the mods introducing new rules. :shrug:

Clydey
06-17-2009, 10:32 AM
I still don't see why we shouldn't use the WWW threads. GM is the core of the forum, where pretty much every poster goes. It's the most active. We have the WWW threads anyway, so just discuss the matches in there. It's not like the forum would be getting polluted by loads of new match threads, since the WWW thread exist anyway.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 10:34 AM
Why not do what TW did and create a subforum for live match results on the front page of GM:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13

This isn't a bad idea as a compromise. TW do that specifically so people can avoid results if they want to, though. We already post match results on GM.

I'm in favour of discussing any given match (before, during, and after) in the WWW threads.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 10:39 AM
Lets start 128 WWW threads for Wimbledon.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 10:41 AM
Yup, the "OOP & Scores" threads in the tournament forums used to get at least 500 posts per day (usually much more) but they were killed by the mods introducing new rules. :shrug:

Read Shotgun's answer and you will get why the rules were introduced. You don't always know what is going to be the response to certain changes.

Dini
06-17-2009, 11:24 AM
I'm in favour of discussing live matches in GM too. :shrug:

Clydey
06-17-2009, 03:18 PM
Lets start 128 WWW threads for Wimbledon.

What are you talking about? The WWW threads already exist. There won't be any more than there usually are. It's not like we're creating new threads. They are already on GM anyway.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 03:20 PM
What are you talking about? The WWW threads already exist. There won't be any more than there usually are. It's not like we're creating new threads. They are already on GM anyway.

Actually create 64 WWW threads for the 1st round of Wimbledon, then you might be on to it.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 03:22 PM
Actually create 64 WWW threads for the 1st round of Wimbledon, then you might be on to it.

You know as well as I do that wouldn't happen. People create WWW threads for matches they are interested in. Like I said, the WWW threads already exist. We're not adding any new threads.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 03:26 PM
You know as well as I do that wouldn't happen. People create WWW threads for matches they are interested in. Like I said, the WWW threads already exist. We're not adding any new threads.

First day of a Slam, the whole first page will be WWW threads. So lets say this if I came into your house, would you like me to tell you how to run things and set things up.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 03:31 PM
First day of a Slam, the whole first page will be WWW threads. So lets say this if I came into your house, would you like me to tell you how to run things and set things up.

No, it wouldn't. Why would there be any more threads than usual? If people were actively interested in every match in the draw, why don't we get like 30 WWW threads per round already? And even if we did, only a handful would even be active, since only a select few matches are actually televised.

I've moderated on forums before, so it's not like I have no experience with this. Other forums deal with live match discussion very easily. Look at TW, for example. The most active live discussion threads you'll find at any one time is around 4. Why? Well, people are only interested in certain matches. Only certain matches are televised. There are only so many matches going on at one time. We're not talking 30-60 matches being played at once, even if it was remotely possible that there would be that many threads in GM.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 03:39 PM
No, it wouldn't. Why would there be any more threads than usual? If people were actively interested in every match in the draw, why don't we get like 30 WWW threads per round already? And even if we did, only a handful would even be active, since only a select few matches are actually televised.

More matches are on offer, therefore there are going to be more threads, that isn't hard to work out.

I've moderated on forums before, so it's not like I have no experience with this. Other forums deal with live match discussion very easily. Look at TW, for example. The most active live discussion threads you'll find at any one time is around 4. Why? Well, people are only interested in certain matches. Only certain matches are televised. There are only so many matches going on at one time. We're not talking 30-60 matches being played at once, even if it was remotely possble that there would be that many threads in GM.

The server is fucking cheap and not going to get any better. So why is it impossible for you to use the respective tournament forum? There have to be some valid reasons for it. There are a lot more than 4 mens matches going on at a Slam at the same time barring rain in the first 2 rounds.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 03:47 PM
More matches are on offer, therefore there are going to be more threads, that isn't hard to work out.


Yes, but there are not going to be any more WWW threads there are for any other slam. People only create WWW threads for matches that interest them. They aren't going to create 64 WWW threads just for the hell of it. And how many people do you think are going to be discussing matches based on live scores? They'll be discussing the handful of matches that are televised.

The server is fucking cheap and not going to get any better. So why is it impossible for you to use the respective tournament forum? There have to be some valid reasons for it. There are a lot more than 4 mens matches going on at a Slam at the same time barring rain in the first 2 rounds.

It's not impossible. It's just a dumb idea used to reduce traffic. No one uses those threads. The forum should be looking to be as popular as possible. Like I said, the WWW threads already exist. All you would be doing is extending their use to live match discussion. Every other forum seems to handle it. And if this server is so shit, what on earth are they doing charging members for certain privileges?

If you think I'm wrong, do a trial run over the first week of Wimbledon. If we end up with 64 WWW threads, I'll be fucking blown away and I'll concede that I was wrong. Put your theory to the test. And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. You can just put live match discussion in the tournament forum.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 03:48 PM
If there was Livescore Sticky Thread for the first week of Wimbledon as a trial, then reviewed after that.

Yes, that means all matches are spoken about in the one place as per se in the Gambling Lounge and not in the WWW threads once the match has started.

Not even sure that this will be tried, but once there is any news, then it will be announced.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 03:53 PM
If there was Livescore Sticky Thread for the first week of Wimbledon as a trial, then reviewed after that.

Yes, that means all matches are spoken about in the one place as per se in the Gambling Lounge and not in the WWW threads once the match has started.

Not even sure that this will be tried, but once there is any news, then it will be announced.

I suppose that would be a compromise. There should at least be something in GM. That's simply where everyone congregates. No point in tucking the live discussion away in a forum hardly anyone visits.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 04:06 PM
Yes, but there are not going to be any more WWW threads there are for any other slam. People only create WWW threads for matches that interest them. They aren't going to create 64 WWW threads just for the hell of it. And how many people do you think are going to be discussing matches based on live scores? They'll be discussing the handful of matches that are televised.

It depends on the fans, there are matches people are interested in that aren't televised and not solely for betting reasons . Or is it just because fans of the top 4 only count?

It's not impossible. It's just a dumb idea used to reduce traffic. No one uses those threads. The forum should be looking to be as popular as possible. Like I said, the WWW threads already exist. All you would be doing is extending their use to live match discussion. Every other forum seems to handle it. And if this server is so shit, what on earth are they doing charging members for certain privileges?

Do you know why this is the case? There were people who didn't have gambling interests and wanted to follow the matches, then the posting of fake scores, jinxing and the colourful language, created the Gamblers Lounge, which works very well.

Now the ones who were there, follow in their own fan forums or whatever reasons don't bother with it, but the tournament forums are there and it goes back to what I said earlier, you wouldn't expect me to piss on your carpet, when there is a functional toilet in the next room would you.

I am not in charge of any decision that gets taken on this matter. As for the servers I didn't purchase them either, but that's another issue.

As for what I posted about one sticky thread being it a compromise, it's actually commonsense. Whose fault is it that they are too lazy to talk about respective matches in tournament forums.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 04:24 PM
It depends on the fans, there are matches people are interested in that aren't televised and not solely for betting reasons . Or is it just because fans of the top 4 only count?

Nice job twisting my words. That certainly wasn't what I said.

I said that most people are only interested in a select few matches. You only get so many WWW threads per round. You don't get a WWW thread for every match in the draw. Allowing live discussion won't randomly increase the number of WWW threads.

Do you know why this is the case? There were people who didn't have gambling interests and wanted to follow the matches, then the posting of fake scores, jinxing and the colourful language, created the Gamblers Lounge, which works very well.

Now the ones who were there, follow in their own fan forums or whatever reasons don't bother with it, but the tournament forums are there and it goes back to what I said earlier, you wouldn't expect me to piss on your carpet, when there is a functional toilet in the next room would you.

I am not in charge of any decision that gets taken on this matter. As for the servers I didn't purchase them either, but that's another issue.

As for what I posted about one sticky thread being it a compromise, it's actually commonsense. Whose fault is it that they are too lazy to talk about respective matches in tournament forums.

I don't think it's common sense. I think it's common sense to use the threads that already exist. It's a good compromise, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that it's a better idea. It's better for the moderators, since it's easier to moderate. It's not necessarily better for the posters, who perhaps want to discuss a specific match. But hey, I'm not a moderator around here. I just think this could improve the forum. I think it would be a great thing for GM.

As for people fucking around with fake scores, well that's what infractions and bans are for.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 04:39 PM
Nice job twisting my words. That certainly wasn't what I said.

I said that most people are only interested in a select few matches. You only get so many WWW threads per round. You don't get a WWW thread for every match in the draw. Allowing live discussion won't randomly increase the number of WWW threads.

We can keep going round and round in circles. That is pretty much what it comes down to. Murray, Nadal, Federer and Djokovic have the big fan bases therefore if they are in any sort of trouble in their matches or doing something different tactically, then some thread will be started, when it can be discussed in the general area of the Livescores thread and doesn't need a separate thread.

I don't think it's common sense. I think it's common sense to use the threads that already exist. It's a good compromise, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that it's a better idea. It's better for the moderators, since it's easier to moderate. It's not necessarily better for the posters, who perhaps want to discuss a specific match. But hey, I'm not a moderator around here. I just think this could improve the forum. I think it would be a great thing for GM.

It's commonsense, because there are rules that have to be observed, if clowns want to curse, bitch and jinx players, then do it in the Gamblers Lounge and not on GM, but that will be lost on some people.

Sounds like you want special and specific treatment for some reason. I am sorry 4 matches what for, when there are plenty of others going on at the same time at a Slam, so they should deserve threads as well. They don't deserve special status, it's not that hard to talk about matches in OOP or Livescores thread, once the one you want is over, either watch the next or go do something else.

You want convenience for yourself, but wanting to have a go at the mods at the same time.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 04:48 PM
We can keep going round and round in circles. That is pretty much what it comes down to. Murray, Nadal, Federer and Djokovic have the big fan bases therefore if they are in any sort of trouble in their matches or doing something different tactically, then some thread will be started, when it can be discussed in the general area of the Livescores thread and doesn't need a separate thread.



It's commonsense, because there are rules that have to be observed, if clowns want to curse, bitch and jinx players, then do it in the Gamblers Lounge and not on GM, but that will be lost on some people.

Sounds like you want special and specific treatment for some reason. I am sorry 4 matches what for, when there are plenty of others going on at the same time at a Slam, so they should deserve threads as well. They don't deserve special status, it's not that hard to talk about matches in OOP or Livescores thread, once the one you want is over, either watch the next or go do something else.

You want convenience for yourself, but wanting to have a go at the mods at the same time.

You've done a remarkable job of twisting everything I say. You've somehow made it sound like I want special treatment.

Now, I'll explain one more time. Every match is equally worthy of a WWW thread. However, the simple fact is that only a few matches per round will end up getting a thread. It's not that I don't think they should be allowed a thread. It's that the vast majority only show interest in the bigger names and only create threads for a select few matches. That's why I said that we won't get 64 WWW threads. It's not because I don't feel every match deserves one. If someone wants a WWW thread for two qualifiers, that's fine. I have no problem with that. The simple fact is that it won't happen, though.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 04:59 PM
You've done a remarkable job of twisting everything I say. You've somehow made it sound like I want special treatment.

Now, I'll explain one more time. Every match is equally worthy of a WWW thread. However, the simple fact is that only a few matches per round will end up getting a thread. It's not that I don't think they should be allowed a thread. It's that the vast majority only show interest in the bigger names and only create threads for a select few matches. That's why I said that we won't get 64 WWW threads. It's not because I don't feel every match deserves one. If someone wants a WWW thread for two qualifiers, that's fine. I have no problem with that. The simple fact is that it won't happen, though.

It still sounds like you want special treatment for these particular player threads.

The simple fact is that all matches within a respective tournament should be discussed within a Livescores or OOP thread wherever it happens to be located. That includes Fulford-Jones vs Junquiera or Federer vs. Nadal.

No the big 4, del Potro, Verdasco or whoever once the match has started doesn't deserve any special treatment.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 05:04 PM
It still sounds like you want special treatment for these particular player threads.

The simple fact is that all matches within a respective tournament should be discussed within a Livescores or OOP thread wherever it happens to be located. That includes Fulford-Jones vs Junquiera or Federer vs. Nadal.

No the big 4, del Potro, Verdasco or whoever once the match has started doesn't deserve any special treatment.

I didn't say that they deserve special treatment. I have no problem with any match being discussed. I don't know how I can put that across any more clearly. No one match is more deserving than any other. I am simply saying that the majority of GM are only interested in a select few matches and that's the reason we won't have 64 WWW threads. It's not that the other matches are any less worthy.

I'm fine with one thread anyway. I just wanted some form of live discussion in GM, since that is where everyone goes.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 05:15 PM
I didn't say that they deserve special treatment. I have no problem with any match being discussed. I don't know how I can put that across any more clearly. No one match is more deserving than any other. I am simply saying that the majority of GM are only interested in a select few matches and that's the reason we won't have 64 WWW threads. It's not that the other matches are any less worthy.

I'm fine with one thread anyway. I just wanted some form of live discussion in GM, since that is where everyone goes.

People will still follow matches, but don't necessarily need to have WWW threads, this has happened a lot and will continue to do so. You are implying that they deserve special treatment and they don't.

Why does it have to be in GM? Because people are too lazy to use the tournament forums and discuss the matches? The GL I can understand why some wouldn't go there. Like I said I wouldn't come into a place and not accept their rules, so why is this differemt? Because of laziness.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 06:24 PM
People will still follow matches, but don't necessarily need to have WWW threads, this has happened a lot and will continue to do so. You are implying that they deserve special treatment and they don't.

Why does it have to be in GM? Because people are too lazy to use the tournament forums and discuss the matches? The GL I can understand why some wouldn't go there. Like I said I wouldn't come into a place and not accept their rules, so why is this differemt? Because of laziness.

You can call it laziness, sure. It's all about convenience really. There's no reason to put it in the tournament forum. The only possible reason is to cut down on traffic. GM is basically the centre point. That is where the vast, vast majority of tennis discussion goes on and that is where most people head to when they come on MTF. Why on earth would you tuck live discussion away in the tournament forum, then? The only reason I can think of is because you think GM will get too busy.

The reason I know that is because even if you put live discussion in the tournament forum, you still leave open the possibility of encountering every single problem you anticipated would occur on GM. If by magic everyone could be bothered to go to the tournament forum and use the live match thread, every single objection you raised is still something you would potentially have to deal with. Like I said, the only explanation is that you are trying to cut down on the traffic.

Lee
06-17-2009, 07:50 PM
You can call it laziness, sure. It's all about convenience really. There's no reason to put it in the tournament forum. The only possible reason is to cut down on traffic. GM is basically the centre point. That is where the vast, vast majority of tennis discussion goes on and that is where most people head to when they come on MTF. Why on earth would you tuck live discussion away in the tournament forum, then? The only reason I can think of is because you think GM will get too busy.

The reason I know that is because even if you put live discussion in the tournament forum, you still leave open the possibility of encountering every single problem you anticipated would occur on GM. If by magic everyone could be bothered to go to the tournament forum and use the live match thread, every single objection you raised is still something you would potentially have to deal with. Like I said, the only explanation is that you are trying to cut down on the traffic.

Ain't this reason good enough? There's a reason various subforums are set up on this board. So I really can't understand why we have to have live score threads on GM. Other than as AJ said, laziness.

For me, I hate the WWW and result threads crowding up GM and I really love to have them in tournament forums too.

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 08:09 PM
You can call it laziness, sure. It's all about convenience really. There's no reason to put it in the tournament forum. The only possible reason is to cut down on traffic. GM is basically the centre point. That is where the vast, vast majority of tennis discussion goes on and that is where most people head to when they come on MTF. Why on earth would you tuck live discussion away in the tournament forum, then? The only reason I can think of is because you think GM will get too busy.

It is pure laziness, but that is just semantics. The simple reason is they should go there, is because that is what the tournament forums were set up for, not just for Entry Lists, to discuss the individual matches in that respective tournament in the Order of Play threads.

These matches involving the big stars doesn't deserve any special treatment in having a thread just for them, and neither does Oscar Hernandez, but we can keep doing the circle thing.


The reason I know that is because even if you put live discussion in the tournament forum, you still leave open the possibility of encountering every single problem you anticipated would occur on GM. If by magic everyone could be bothered to go to the tournament forum and use the live match thread, every single objection you raised is still something you would potentially have to deal with. Like I said, the only explanation is that you are trying to cut down on the traffic.

You'd get that anywhere. There are mods that look after the tournament sections. Jinnxing, the fake scores and the other shit would get warnings and told to move to gamblers lounge.

In other words you are saying posters are too thick or too lazy to click on the upcoming tournament Wimbledon for example and talk about the live matches in there.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 08:32 PM
Ain't this reason good enough? There's a reason various subforums are set up on this board. So I really can't understand why we have to have live score threads on GM. Other than as AJ said, laziness.

For me, I hate the WWW and result threads crowding up GM and I really love to have them in tournament forums too.

No, it's not. The reason it's not is because you still leave open the possibility of the same "problem" happening on the tournament forum.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 08:42 PM
In other words you are saying posters are too thick or too lazy to click on the upcoming tournament Wimbledon for example and talk about the live matches in there.

I'm not saying it. It's just a fact that they are. Having it in GM is more convenient. No point in putting it in the tournament forum just to spite them for laziness. Yeah, it's laziness. Whatever. Doesn't change the fact that the goal should be to make the forum more popular. Having it in GM would make GM more popular, whether you view that as a good thing or a bad thing.

Lee
06-17-2009, 09:12 PM
Live scores threads are ALWAYS in tournament since the beginning of ATPWORLD.COM menstennisforums.com and later in gamblers forum. So saying having live scores threads in GM will make the forum more popular is totally .....

Action Jackson
06-17-2009, 09:14 PM
I'm not saying it. It's just a fact that they are. Having it in GM is more convenient. No point in putting it in the tournament forum just to spite them for laziness. Yeah, it's laziness. Whatever. Doesn't change the fact that the goal should be to make the forum more popular. Having it in GM would make GM more popular, whether you view that as a good thing or a bad thing.

They have always been there since the formation of this forum. This place is popular enough and the server is crap that it can't handle huge amounts of traffic.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 09:15 PM
Live scores threads are ALWAYS in tournament since the beginning of ATPWORLD.COM menstennisforums.com and later in gamblers forum. So saying having live scores threads in GM will make the forum more popular is totally .....

No one uses those threads. So obviously having them on GM would make them more popular.

Lee
06-17-2009, 09:25 PM
No one uses those threads. So obviously having them on GM would make them more popular.

I don't know you're a prophet. Sorry for having a different opinion then yours.

Clydey
06-17-2009, 09:32 PM
I don't know you're a prophet. Sorry for having a different opinion then yours.

No, I'm just using common sense. Live match discussions on GM would be more popular than live match discussions tucked away in the tournament forums. Pretty sure even AJ agrees with that. In fact, that isn't even what we're arguing about.

pogotheorist
06-18-2009, 03:42 AM
I tried starting a live match thread in a tournament forum once; got about three nibbles. No fun; gave that up. Then did a search when a big Murray match was on, to see where the action was - turned out to be on a chat thread inside the Rafa subforum of the Spanish Armada forum (though I have a feeling Rafa wasn't the other player).

So at present you can brave the chill in the tournament subforum, or hunt through chat threads for actual discussion; but it's almost an underground thing. Of course it's inhibiting match discussion that would happen, and would be a major part of the site's activity, if facilitated. The argument of sparing the servers is pretty bizarre; is it actual MTF policy to discourage posting?.

Clydey
06-18-2009, 09:51 AM
I tried starting a live match thread in a tournament forum once; got about three nibbles. No fun; gave that up. Then did a search when a big Murray match was on, to see where the action was - turned out to be on a chat thread inside the Rafa subforum of the Spanish Armada forum (though I have a feeling Rafa wasn't the other player).

So at present you can brave the chill in the tournament subforum, or hunt through chat threads for actual discussion; but it's almost an underground thing. Of course it's inhibiting match discussion that would happen, and would be a major part of the site's activity, if facilitated. The argument of sparing the servers is pretty bizarre; is it actual MTF policy to discourage posting?.

My thoughts exactly. A forum should be looking to encourage discussion.

Action Jackson
06-18-2009, 10:08 AM
No one uses those threads. So obviously having them on GM would make them more popular.

Create your own forum man.

Clydey
06-18-2009, 10:20 AM
Create your own forum man.

So is that how you respond to people who are looking to improve the forum? Why do you even have a feedback and suggestions forum if that's the attitude you're going to take when someone has constructive criticism?

Action Jackson
06-18-2009, 10:36 AM
So is that how you respond to people who are looking to improve the forum? Why do you even have a feedback and suggestions forum if that's the attitude you're going to take when someone has constructive criticism?

You mean making things easier for yourself, that is what it comes down to. You think I haven't listened to your points at all, I have done that. I mean you think certain matches deserve special treatment and I don't think any of them do.

There are functions already set up for the usage of the issue you are raising, but because of inherent laziness of posters this should be changed. It's not going to improve the forum at all.

Clydey
06-18-2009, 10:51 AM
You mean making things easier for yourself, that is what it comes down to. You think I haven't listened to your points at all, I have done that. I mean you think certain matches deserve special treatment and I don't think any of them do.

There are functions already set up for the usage of the issue you are raising, but because of inherent laziness of posters this should be changed. It's not going to improve the forum at all.

I keep telling you over and over that I don't think certain matches deserve special treatment. And I'll keep saying it until you stop using this fabricated piece of nonsense to discredit what I'm saying. I don't care what match anyone wants to create a WWW thread for. It could be challengers, futures, juniors, etc. One is no more deserving than the other. If that is what certain people are interested in, they should be free to discuss it in a WWW thread. In other words, all matches deserve the same treatment. It is simply down to what the posters on GM want. They can create a WWW thread for ANY match that interests them, just as they do now. The only difference is that they can discuss the match in the thread as it takes place.

So you clearly have not read my points. I keep telling you the same thing and you keep building up strawmen. No match deserves special treatment. I honestly cannot be any clearer. The fact is that you don't like someone giving out constructive criticism. You think I'm telling you how to do your job. Well, I'm not. I'm giving you suggestions and I'm certainly not the only one who's in favour of live match discussion on GM. That is the point of this forum. We give suggestions and you mull them over. You don't tell someone to basically piss off for giving suggestions.

All you want to do is cut down on traffic. That's just a bullshit reason, as far as I'm concerned. Talk about backwards logic. A website wants its main forum to be less popular? I honestly can't get my head around it.

Action Jackson
06-18-2009, 11:17 AM
Clydey, don't give me this fabricated nonsense, you know exactly what it's going to happen. Basically GM will be more of a spamfest for Nadal, Federer, Murray and Djokovic matches.

Building up strawmen, far from it, not my fault people are lazy and don't use the facilities that are already in place. Or are you going to tell me that there aren't places to talk about the matches already in place.

When you created your account did you agree to the terms and conditions of the site or not ?

Considering there are more pressing issues with site, like doing a major upgrade so it's able to handle traffic during busy times and actually give the paying members some value for money, this particular issue is a non-issue.

You need to argue like a junkie needs smack, so I am being generous.

krystlel
06-18-2009, 11:29 AM
The tournament live scoring forums used to have more posts in it, it's a shame that it hardly gets used now. These days the order of play doesn't even get posted much of the time, so I have to hunt down the annoying PDFs on the ATP website instead.

Clydey
06-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Clydey, don't give me this fabricated nonsense, you know exactly what it's going to happen. Basically GM will be more of a spamfest for Nadal, Federer, Murray and Djokovic matches.

Building up strawmen, far from it, not my fault people are lazy and don't use the facilities that are already in place. Or are you going to tell me that there aren't places to talk about the matches already in place.

When you created your account did you agree to the terms and conditions of the site or not ?

Considering there are more pressing issues with site, like doing a major upgrade so it's able to handle traffic during busy times and actually give the paying members some value for money, this particular issue is a non-issue.

You need to argue like a junkie needs smack, so I am being generous.

Yes, I agreed to the terms and conditions. Should we just scrap and feedback and suggestions forum, then? I mean, we all agreed to the terms and conditions. Therefore, there's no need to have this forum. Constructive criticism is out of the question. And yes, I do know exactly what's going to happen. People are going to be able to chat about ANY match that interests them while it's being played in a lively atmosphere. They won't be discussing a match with one man and his dog. If someone wants to discuss a Federer match, fine. If someone wants to discuss Rochus vs. Cipolla, that's fine too.

And yes, there are places to discuss matches. They are deliberately tucked away so as to cut down on traffic. Like I said before, every objection you have raised is still applicable to the tournament forums. Not a single one of your concerns is addressed by having live match discussions in the tournament forums. The potential for every problem still exists. If everyone suddenly migrated to the tournament forum, what would you do? You would have the same problems you would have had on GM. The only reason you want them in the tournament forum is because you know that's unlikely to happen and you know that no one is going to bother going there. They'll just go to Tennis Warehouse or some other forum to discuss matches.

shotgun
06-18-2009, 02:15 PM
The tournament live scoring forums used to have more posts in it, it's a shame that it hardly gets used now. These days the order of play doesn't even get posted much of the time, so I have to hunt down the annoying PDFs on the ATP website instead.

Exactly my point. Back in the day members would start "OOP & scores" threads voluntarily, because it was sure to get a lot of posts during the day. Nowadays not even the tournament forum moderators bother to do it. Hence my suggestion to go back to the old system and move the discussion in the gamblers lounge back to the tournament forums. The sensitive people that complained about foul language from gamblers showed in the end that they do not really deserve to be heard. The board made a change for them and they didn't care.

LinkMage
06-18-2009, 09:51 PM
I agree with shotgun. Get rid of the Livescoring in the GL and get it back to the tournaments forums with the daily "OOP & Scores" threads. :D

I would gladly start those threads. :angel:

Clydey
06-21-2009, 04:17 PM
Scoobs, what's the final word on this? Are you guys giving it a trial run in GM for Wimbledon?

scoobs
06-21-2009, 04:23 PM
It's looking like yes to a trial over Wimbledon but I'm waiting for a few more people to have their say before it gets the final go-ahead.

Action Jackson
06-21-2009, 04:26 PM
Exactly my point. Back in the day members would start "OOP & scores" threads voluntarily, because it was sure to get a lot of posts during the day. Nowadays not even the tournament forum moderators bother to do it. Hence my suggestion to go back to the old system and move the discussion in the gamblers lounge back to the tournament forums. The sensitive people that complained about foul language from gamblers showed in the end that they do not really deserve to be heard. The board made a change for them and they didn't care.

Now the board will be catering to the other lazy bums.

Clydey
06-21-2009, 04:59 PM
It's looking like yes to a trial over Wimbledon but I'm waiting for a few more people to have their say before it gets the final go-ahead.

Good stuff.

Action Jackson
06-22-2009, 09:49 AM
The trial begins today.

Clydey
06-23-2009, 12:01 AM
The trial begins today.

In what forum? I didn't see a thread in GM. Do you mean we're using the WWW threads or we're using a single thread?

Lee
06-23-2009, 12:51 AM
There's a sticky thread in GM with amazing 13 posts

Clydey
06-23-2009, 01:01 AM
There's a sticky thread in GM with amazing 13 posts

I doubt there are many people aware of it. I mean, I never even so much as glance at the sticky posts, since they are rarely of interest. No wonder there are hardly any posts.

tangerine_dream
06-30-2009, 07:12 PM
The live match trial thread looks to be a success.

LinkMage
07-01-2009, 02:55 AM
Not really. The daily "OOP & Scores" threads in the tournament forums used to have around 1000 posts per day.

Clydey
07-02-2009, 08:53 PM
Not really. The daily "OOP & Scores" threads in the tournament forums used to have around 1000 posts per day.

People flatout stopped posting in those threads.

Clydey
07-02-2009, 08:56 PM
The live match trial thread looks to be a success.

Definitely. Some decent activity and no real problems for the moderators to deal with. Would be logical to keep it for future tournaments.

Aenea
07-07-2009, 04:31 PM
IMO Livescores threads should be created in GM and not trial only. Few days ago I was badreped by a gambler for writing in their forum and another one advised us today to get out of GL Livescores http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=8822765&postcount=1467

shotgun
07-07-2009, 08:27 PM
I agree, it's been a success. My suggestion would be to keep the live match thread in GM and moving the livescores thread from the Gamblers Lounge back to the tournament forums.

That way we would have a strictly moderated live thread (the GM sticky) and a loosely moderated thread for the gamblers, with the benefit of repopulating the tournament forums. :shrug:

Clydey
07-08-2009, 05:29 PM
I agree, it's been a success. My suggestion would be to keep the live match thread in GM and moving the livescores thread from the Gamblers Lounge back to the tournament forums.

That way we would have a strictly moderated live thread (the GM sticky) and a loosely moderated thread for the gamblers, with the benefit of repopulating the tournament forums. :shrug:

Sounds good. The GM thread was pretty low maintenance and served its purpose. No real downside to keeping it in GM.

bad gambler
07-09-2009, 01:46 AM
I agree, it's been a success. My suggestion would be to keep the live match thread in GM and moving the livescores thread from the Gamblers Lounge back to the tournament forums.

That way we would have a strictly moderated live thread (the GM sticky) and a loosely moderated thread for the gamblers, with the benefit of repopulating the tournament forums. :shrug:

I don't have a problem with that suggestion however is there really any need to do that? You would still have two livescore threads running in parallel just one would be in the tournament forum instead of the GL. We've pretty much established that the tournament forum is used for games and main draw info these days anyway.

bad gambler
07-09-2009, 01:48 AM
IMO Livescores threads should be created in GM and not trial only. Few days ago I was badreped by a gambler for writing in their forum and another one advised us today to get out of GL Livescores http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=8822765&postcount=1467

lol let me guess that the person who badrepped you was "its like that" in which case I wouldn't be too worked up about it seeing as he bad reps everyone :silly:

shotgun
07-09-2009, 04:51 PM
I don't have a problem with that suggestion however is there really any need to do that? You would still have two livescore threads running in parallel just one would be in the tournament forum instead of the GL. We've pretty much established that the tournament forum is used for games and main draw info these days anyway.

The OOP & Scores threads were great. You didn't have to venture outside of MTF to find out what the Order of Play for that day was. Like Krystlel said, now it's necessary to go all the way to the ATP website and find the .pdf file for each tournament.