Madrid most interesting clay event thus far? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Madrid most interesting clay event thus far?

ORGASMATRON
05-10-2009, 07:13 PM
I must say of all the clay court tournaments im looking forward the most to MAdrid. Not only is it a new ATP event but there is many other things that could make this potentially very interesting. The conditions will be different cos of the altitude, giving some of the attacking players a chance. Nadal does not sound happy and i think he isnt doing his chances any favors by his discontent. Is the number 1 pressure finally getting to him? Is he starting to finally doubt himself after al this domination on clay? Will Verdasco beat him or will Djokovic take him finally? He doesnt seem focused thats for sure. On the other side Fed is already relishing the conditions and salavating at the prospect of a place in the final. Are we finally gonna have our Fed/Murray clay court matchup? I cant wait to find out.

MacTheKnife
05-10-2009, 07:17 PM
Nadal wins easily. The only question is, who will he beat in the final.

Action Jackson
05-10-2009, 07:17 PM
Any clay event that has Nadal in it, is only interesting to Nadal fans, so they can see him smash the field playing at half pace.

Or for others to see who is playing for 2nd place.

Nadal_Fanatic
05-10-2009, 07:19 PM
Nadal dominates. Then complains again about Madrid before Roland Garros.

jonathancrane
05-10-2009, 07:29 PM
Hilarious that still some people think that Madrid altitude would make any difference

ORGASMATRON
05-10-2009, 07:33 PM
Hilarious that still some people think that Madrid altitude would make any difference

Difference to what?

finishingmove
05-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Difference to what?

complete annihilation

pray for death

ORGASMATRON
05-10-2009, 07:48 PM
complete annihilation

pray for death

LOL

DartMarcus
05-10-2009, 07:52 PM
Nadal will win every match 6-2 6-2. Interesting?

ORGASMATRON
05-10-2009, 07:59 PM
Nadal will win every match 6-2 6-2. Interesting?

Dont be silly, Nadal will lose at least a set in this event.

Langers
05-11-2009, 02:26 AM
Yes, but not because Rafa is 'losiing his mojo'.

kingfederer
05-11-2009, 02:39 AM
nadal should retire if he fails at roland garros, im being serious here. if he cannot win at his peak, when there is a big difference over him and the 2nd best clay player and had a good clay streak this year, if he cannot win the big one, i think he should just quit because he might have already peaked. i dont care if he loses 6-0 6-0 in the 1st match he plays at madrid as long as he wins the french.

azza
05-11-2009, 07:00 AM
is it blue clay or sumfing

TeamID
05-11-2009, 07:06 AM
This event is terrible because it's mixed, women's tennis is abysmal.

Kiman
05-11-2009, 08:03 AM
Of course, he might be just beaten by invisible man on this surface - Novak. If he is to beat an invisible opponent, then he is the true GOAT.

TennisViewer531
05-11-2009, 08:08 AM
It'd be interesting how the seeded players will fare during the tournament...

vamosinator
05-11-2009, 08:40 AM
Rather than opening a fresh thread MATRON including your speculation in "Nadal critic on Madrid" or "Madrid Main Draw" threads would have been a much better idea. This is a very hollow thread idea-wise with a boring poll.

kingfederer
05-11-2009, 09:01 AM
This event is terrible because it's mixed, women's tennis is abysmal.

agree. womens tennis should be banned. womens tennis ruined nadal's us open last year after having to play his quaters match at 11pm after the womens match and finishing at around 3 am and coming back to play again mid afternoon a day after. nadal was dead on his feet. from then on i HATED womens tennis. womens tennis was the cause of hewitt-baghdatis finish at 4am at the aussie last year and djoko-baghdatis finish at 3am this year aussie open.
they should play AFTER the men have finished since men are superior human beings to women in every way possible.

kingfederer
05-11-2009, 09:10 AM
Rather than opening a fresh thread MATRON including your speculation in "Nadal critic on Madrid" or "Madrid Main Draw" threads would have been a much better idea. This is a very hollow thread idea-wise with a boring poll.

:lol:

Greatness
05-11-2009, 10:20 AM
The only guys who can challenge Rafa on clay are Djokovic, Federer, Murray.

Federer is currently playing crap tennis; Djokovic will probably be too tired to put up his best tennis; Murray has been playing defensive tennis against Nadal on clay, which got him nowhere.

I hope for the best, but this could end being the most boring clay event of the year.

Byrd
05-11-2009, 10:22 AM
The courts are playing faster than some hardcourts, shows the nature of the courts nowadays, disgrace.

Nedved Rosicky
05-11-2009, 10:29 AM
indoor stadium with roof opened

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 10:33 AM
This event is terrible because it's mixed, women's tennis is abysmal.

I forgot about that yeah that does suck.

Rather than opening a fresh thread MATRON including your speculation in "Nadal critic on Madrid" or "Madrid Main Draw" threads would have been a much better idea. This is a very hollow thread idea-wise with a boring poll.

:lol: Envy is a bitch no?

:lol:

Why do you laugh at this tool? Just when i was gaining respect for you as a poster :o

FlameOn
05-11-2009, 10:33 AM
I actually am not sure Rafa will go the whole distance at this one. He doesn't like the tournament (he's made that clear enough), and it doesn't seem to play like most clay. He could be upset at this one.

philosophicalarf
05-11-2009, 12:15 PM
The courts are playing faster than some hardcourts, shows the nature of the courts nowadays, disgrace.

Nothing to do with the courts, it's the altitude - Munich, Gstaad, Kitzbuhel have always been quick, and Madrid was inevitably going to be the same. There's still plenty of slow clay: Monte Carlo, Estoril, Umag, Valencia and so on.

You can't do anything about it in Madrid short of using comedy large balls, then the players would complain something awful about it ruining their Roland Garros prep (much more than they are about the altitude/blueclay/bounces/whatever). A lot of them would probably find an excuse to skip the event then, or tank if they were forced to play.

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 12:54 PM
Nothing to do with the courts, it's the altitude - Munich, Gstaad, Kitzbuhel have always been quick, and Madrid was inevitably going to be the same. There's still plenty of slow clay: Monte Carlo, Estoril, Umag, Valencia and so on.

You can't do anything about it in Madrid short of using comedy large balls, then the players would complain something awful about it ruining their Roland Garros prep (much more than they are about the altitude/blueclay/bounces/whatever). A lot of them would probably find an excuse to skip the event then, or tank if they were forced to play.

Valencia moved to indoor hard and from 250 to 500.

marcRD
05-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Wow, Madrid is fast clay. Really fast.

Djokovic has a golden oppurtunity here to punish Nadal in the semifinal.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 01:04 PM
I actually am not sure Rafa will go the whole distance at this one. He doesn't like the tournament (he's made that clear enough), and it doesn't seem to play like most clay. He could be upset at this one.

Ive been surprised at NAdal's attitude of late. It doesnt seem like him, the pressure could be getting to him.

Wow, Madrid is fast clay. Really fast.

Djokovic has a golden oppurtunity here to punish Nadal in the semifinal.

Do you think Djokovic could be tired perhaps?

finishingmove
05-11-2009, 01:07 PM
Do you think Djokovic could be tired perhaps?

i don't buy it.

if he appears tired, he's probably faking

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 01:09 PM
It is fast, but it doesn't seem to be like it's faster than Rome.

marcRD
05-11-2009, 01:10 PM
Do you think Djokovic could be tired perhaps?

Maybe, but even Verdasco could have a shot against Nadal with the Madrid superfast clay, I think there is a chanse Nadal could be beaten in this torunament. Ofcourse, Nadal is still the favorite.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 01:16 PM
Maybe, but even Verdasco could have a shot against Nadal with the Madrid superfast clay, I think there is a chanse Nadal could be beaten in this torunament. Ofcourse, Nadal is still the favorite.

I tend to agree with you. I know if Nando applies himself mentally he has a very good chance. But whether he will do it is another question. And even though Djokovic coul be tired this wil probably be his best chance so far at beating Nadal on clay. And dont count out the Fed just yet...

Guga_fan
05-11-2009, 01:20 PM
If the courts are indeed as fast as some hardcourts, then Verdasco or Murray can beat Nadal here. Djokovic doesn't have a chance to even meet Rafa, after playing two weeks in a row.

marcRD
05-11-2009, 01:22 PM
I tend to agree with you. I know if Nando applies himself mentally he has a very good chance. But whether he will do it is another question. And even though Djokovic coul be tired this wil probably be his best chance so far at beating Nadal on clay. And dont count out the Fed just yet...

If Federer finds his serve on this surface he could hold his own against Nadal, yes I am not counting him out.

Besides he would have a great chanse against anyone else, be it Djokovic, Verdasco or Murray.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:27 PM
It is fast, but it doesn't seem to be like it's faster than Rome.

It's not too bad speed wise. Better watch it Madrid is now like Lhasa for altitude.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 01:30 PM
It's not too bad speed wise. Better watch it Madrid is now like Lhasa for altitude.

How high is Lhasa? Madrid cant be close to Joburg which is 2000m. Used to hate playing there.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:32 PM
How high is Lhasa? Madrid cant be close to Joburg which is 2000m. Used to hate playing there.

Madrid isn't anywhere near Jo'Burg or Pretoria for altitude, hence the overemphasis on 660m above sea level. It's not like they need to use high pressure tennis balls.

Lhasa is 3650m above sea level.

TennisViewer531
05-11-2009, 01:32 PM
If Federer finds his serve on this surface he could hold his own against Nadal, yes I am not counting him out.

Besides he would have a great chanse against anyone else, be it Djokovic, Verdasco or Murray.

I agree. I can never really count out Federer in any tournament, regardless of the court surface.. :)

batavlada
05-11-2009, 01:33 PM
Nadal is unbeatable in final match. Yet, there is chance, even small statistical chance, that someone can bring him down before final.
But, after 30/0 score on clay, there is not enough satisfaction in any defeat - he is boring in domination and any choke is "it must happen once".

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 01:34 PM
It's not too bad speed wise. Better watch it Madrid is now like Lhasa for altitude.

LOL I reckon you must have said it a zillion times lately this thing about Madrid not being extreme altitude. I guess moderating on MTF has to give you tons of patience. :)

rafa_maniac
05-11-2009, 01:35 PM
660 metres? Most inland cities are probably not far off of that. What a joke.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 01:39 PM
Madrid isn't anywhere near Jo'Burg or Pretoria for altitude, hence the overemphasis on 660m above sea level. It's not like they need to use high pressure tennis balls.

Lhasa is 3650m above sea level.

Lol, there is a tournament there? That must be insanely fast! They should play more tournaments there to bring tennis back into balance.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:41 PM
LOL I reckon you must have said it a zillion times lately this thing about Madrid not being extreme altitude. I guess moderating on MTF has to give you tons of patience. :)

I mean I have lived at places above 1000m and played different sports at altitude and only in the mildest case.

The lungs aren't going to be burning and needed a big hit of oxygen say if they are playing at 2000m above after extensive rallies. Or they have to arrive 3 weeks in advance to get used to Madrid's altitude.

My main point is, yes the ball will travel a bit quicker through the air, not a bad thing, but it's not like if you want aim the ball 10cm inside the base and service lines, that you have to adjust it by a metre so.

marcRD
05-11-2009, 01:41 PM
LOL I reckon you must have said it a zillion times lately this thing about Madrid not being extreme altitude. I guess moderating on MTF has to give you tons of patience. :)

Well, I am watching Madrid now and it is faster than Rome.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:42 PM
Lol, there is a tournament there? That must be insanely fast! They should play more tournaments there to bring tennis back into balance.

No, there isn't. The high altitude Challengers are in Mexico City, Bogota, Quito, Medellin and the ATP event in Jo'burg, though Mexico City and Bogota used to be ATP IS events.

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 01:45 PM
Well, I am watching Madrid now and it is faster than Rome.

Rome looked to me a bit faster than this. Although I haven't watched enough to make a good judgment.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:46 PM
Rome was heavy and had plenty of rain early on the event.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 01:48 PM
No, there isn't. The high altitude Challengers are in Mexico City, Bogota, Quito, Medellin and the ATP event in Jo'burg, though Mexico City and Bogota used to be ATP IS events.

I wonder what happens at 10 000m, probably really hard to breath there lol.

Rome was heavy and had plenty of rain early on the event.

What was Romes altitude and what is the speed of the clay there compared to Madrid. Isnt MAdrid faster?

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:51 PM
I wonder what happens at 10 000m, probably really hard to breath there lol.



What was Romes altitude and what is the speed of the clay there compared to Madrid. Isnt MAdrid faster?

10 000m, well considering Everest is 8,700m, that should answer that question.

Rome has a cement base, less topsoil on a harder base, given the warmer weather, there you have a fast court.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 01:54 PM
10 000m, well considering Everest is 8,700m, that should answer that question.

Rome has a cement base, less topsoil on a harder base, given the warmer weather, there you have a fast court.

:haha: @ first statement. Ok lets say 5000m

So you think Rome was faster then Madrid?

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:58 PM
As Rome was colder and heavier than it normally is, so it's about the same as the normal Rome, though need more than 1 day to gauge.

The speed isn't going to stop Nadal.

Henry Chinaski
05-11-2009, 02:00 PM
nice attacking tennis here between safin and tsonga.

cold be a psychological thing as well. if the players think the altitude has an effect then they approach the match with a different mindset because at 660 you don't exactly need an oxygen tank.

Nacho
05-11-2009, 02:00 PM
the stadium is located in south madrid, where the altitude is just 565 m, so get over it

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks Nacho, even less altitude than before.

finishingmove
05-11-2009, 02:04 PM
is madrid sinking?

philosophicalarf
05-11-2009, 02:06 PM
Here's what it means in practical terms: at sea level on most clay players are broken 25-30% of the time (Monte Carlo this year with the rain was 32%, bit more than usual) - it varies between tournaments depending on clay preparation. Rome is less now cos of the different base under the clay - it was 26% this year cos of the rain, last year was 23%, long term average is 27% but they've clearly speeded it up in recent years.

At 400-600m clay it's more like 21-22%, same as a mid speed hard court. Indian Wells, Miami and Aus Open are all spot on 23%. US Open is 20%.

At 1000m clay it's 15-18%, like a fast indoors court.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 02:07 PM
I never thought the altitide would make a difference, Nadal should be the favorite by far. But i think he is making way too much noise in the press before RG, as if he is starting to doubt himself. IF he thought he was the favorite as well why would he care about the altitude? Everyone has to deal with it.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:08 PM
Nadal always says everyone else is the favourite.

Henry Chinaski
05-11-2009, 02:10 PM
Here's what it means in practical terms: at sea level on clay players are broken 29-30% of the time (Monte Carlo this year with the rain was 32%, bit more than usual).

At 400-600m clay it's more like 21-22%, same as a mid speed hard court. Indian Wells, Miami and Aus Open are all spot on 23%. US Open is 20%.

At 1000m clay it's 15-18%, like a fast indoors court.

interesting stats, thanks.

philosophicalarf
05-11-2009, 02:12 PM
Nadal always says everyone else is the favourite.

Yeah - I don't think he actually believes this will particularly penalise him. He's maybe marginally more vulnerable than he is at Rome, but there's only so much difference air speed makes. It's not like he's beaten much on hard courts these days anyway.

He just doesn't like change :-) After all, this is a guy who wants his water bottles synchronised to the millimetre....

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 02:15 PM
Yeah - I don't think he actually believes this will particularly penalise him. He's maybe marginally more vulnerable than he is at Rome, but there's only so much difference air speed makes. It's not like he's beaten much on hard courts these days anyway.

He just doesn't like change :-) After all, this is a guy who wants his water bottles synchronised to the millimetre....

Since you put it that way it makes more sense. Its the OCD taking over again :rolleyes:

TennisViewer531
05-11-2009, 02:16 PM
Here's what it means in practical terms: at sea level on most clay players are broken 29-30% of the time (Monte Carlo this year with the rain was 32%, bit more than usual). Rome is less cos of the different base under the clay - it was 26% this year cos of the rain, last year was 23%, long term average is 27% but they've clearly speeded it up in recent years.

At 400-600m clay it's more like 21-22%, same as a mid speed hard court. Indian Wells, Miami and Aus Open are all spot on 23%. US Open is 20%.

At 1000m clay it's 15-18%, like a fast indoors court.

:worship: :worship: Thanks for sharing these interesting stats!

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:24 PM
Yeah - I don't think he actually believes this will particularly penalise him. He's maybe marginally more vulnerable than he is at Rome, but there's only so much difference air speed makes. It's not like he's beaten much on hard courts these days anyway.

He just doesn't like change :-) After all, this is a guy who wants his water bottles synchronised to the millimetre....

I mean the fact Nacho posted the location of the stadium which is even lower altitude wise, doesn't actually hinder him at all. It's just an out if he loses.

Where did you get the stats from? How are they calculated? I have a query with them.

I am not going to believe them totally, because I had someone try and tell me Hamburg was faster than Monte Carlo because it had less breaks of serve, when anyone with 2 functioning eyes, knows that Hamburg was one of the slowest clay events around, due to the composition of the court, the climactic conditions, among other things. It doesn't factor certain players as well, at the events, so you can see my scepticism with the numbers?

Of course the ball is going to fly a bit quicker through the air, not you at all

thrust
05-11-2009, 02:32 PM
nadal should retire if he fails at roland garros, im being serious here. if he cannot win at his peak, when there is a big difference over him and the 2nd best clay player and had a good clay streak this year, if he cannot win the big one, i think he should just quit because he might have already peaked. i dont care if he loses 6-0 6-0 in the 1st match he plays at madrid as long as he wins the french.

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!! Losing the French would be very unhappy for him and his fans, but he cannot win all the time. I think he really does not care about Madird and may not give his best effort, in order to rest up for the FO.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 02:38 PM
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!! Losing the French would be very unhappy for him and his fans, but he cannot win all the time. I think he really does not care about Madird and may not give his best effort, in order to rest up for the FO.

If he doesnt win Madrid people will say hes not ready for RG defense etc and it wouldnt be ideal prep. If hes not gonna give it his all he shouldnt have played Madrid.

philosophicalarf
05-11-2009, 02:40 PM
Where did you get the stats from? How are they calculated? I have a query with them.


You can get them any number of places - the ATP provides the raw data for free and plenty sites collate them. The stat itself isn't a complicated calculation, it's just number of breaks / number of service games.

Despite the simplicity it's pretty useful though, and tends to be extremely consistent - barring unusual weather, most tournaments will tend towards their long-term average very, very precisely. For example, Indian Wells and Miami average 22.8% and 23% long term, this year they were 23% and 22.9% respectively. People say the past doesn't always predict the future in tennis, but the sample here is pretty huge - over 2000 service games in each masters.



I am not going to believe them totally, because I had someone try and tell me Hamburg was faster than Monte Carlo because it had less breaks of serve......

Yeah, Hamburg is a tricky one - it varies a whole bundle cos of weather and the covered court factor so it's pretty hard to get a handle on (average is 28%). Monte Carlo is more consistent, prolly cos of the sea.


To measure surface speed you could also use serve points won%, or aces/game (although this is maybe not as good because at extremes players alter their serve speed). There's also games/set, tiebreaks/set and so on, but they all end up with roughly the same ranking.

The ATP also has a really accurate surface speed gadget for rating artificial surfaces, which precisely measures horizontal friction and bounce height and combines them into an overall rating 1 to 5. Doesn't tell you anything about weather or altitude though, so not enormously useful - they use it more for certification purposes, checking surfaces are consistent etc.


What's harder to measure are unique factors that make up the average - stuff like reactivity to spin, bounce height, humidity and other factors. Indian Wells has a ridiculously slow surface, but airspeed is fast and bounce high cos of the warm/dry desert air (at least in daytime, at night it gets pretty slow). Thus you get Isner having his best ever tournament, with even 6'4 opponents like Monfils and Safin unable to handle the ridiculous height his serves were leaping up to.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 02:49 PM
You can get them any number of places - the ATP provides the raw data for free and plenty sites collate them.

The stat itself isn't a complicated calculation, it's just number of breaks / number of service games.

Thanks for the answer, it's not that stats in themselves are bad things at all, it's just the way that they are applied that really fuck me off at times.

Yeah, Hamburg is a tricky one - it varies a whole bundle cos of weather and the covered court factor so it's pretty hard to get a handle on (average is 28%). Monte Carlo is more consistent, prolly cos of the sea.

There wasn't always a roof, next of all, the fact that Monte Carlo is the first major clay event of the season and Hamburg different is a factor.

Measuring surface speed completely you could also use serve points won%, or aces/game (although this is maybe not as good because at extremes players alter their serve speed). There's also games/set, tiebreaks/set and so on, but they all end up with surface speeds in roughly the same order.

What's harder to measure are unique factors that make up the average - stuff like reactivity to spin, bounce height, humidity and other factors. Indian Wells has a ridiculously slow surface, but airspeed is fast and bounce high cos of the warm/dry desert air (at least in daytime, at night it gets pretty slow). Thus you get Isner having his best ever tournament, with even 6'4 opponents like Monfils and Safin unable to handle the ridiculous height his serves were leaping up to.

This is the problem, the data can say this, but it fails to take into account many things, it doesn't measure the game styles of certain players. If you have a place that is colder, then the ball isn't going to travel through the air as quickly, this will impact on spin as well through various ways. Some places are windier than others, there is humidity.

Night time is going to be slower through the air in most cases, due to temperature drops, then sometimes the balls they use, one brand flies through the air quicker than another.

There is no surprise the Gooch and Dick Norman do well at high altitudes, then there is Nico Lapentti who plays well there, he does it a different way.

So you can see my initial scepticism then?

philosophicalarf
05-11-2009, 03:06 PM
Yeah, absolutely, stats like that are a combination of many different elements. When you call a court "fast" it's a mish-mash average of a whole range of judgements, and you need to be pretty carefully aware of how particular elements of that judgement can affect different play styles.

Again going back to Indian Wells (sorry, my favourite tournament for betting cos it's so odd!). Stepanek is utterly hopeless there, 1-7 record, and the one was a decrepit long-past it Mirnyi. He can't handle the bounce on his forehand, has the wrong grip for it, and it just breaks down. However he's fine at Miami (beat Gonzo this year!), which has an identical break % but a more sensible bounce height.

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 03:20 PM
I wonder what happens at 10 000m, probably really hard to breath there lol.

thanks for my new sig

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 03:34 PM
Yeah, absolutely, stats like that are a combination of many different elements. When you call a court "fast" it's a mish-mash average of a whole range of judgements, and you need to be pretty carefully aware of how particular elements of that judgement can affect different play styles.

Again going back to Indian Wells (sorry, my favourite tournament for betting cos it's so odd!). Stepanek is utterly hopeless there, 1-7 record, and the one was a decrepit long-past it Mirnyi. He can't handle the bounce on his forehand, has the wrong grip for it, and it just breaks down. However he's fine at Miami (beat Gonzo this year!), which has an identical break % but a more sensible bounce height.

The combination is important, especially when bean counters will just look at the naked data and not actually apply the other factors which are just as important.

Then the fields and match ups matter as well, they aren't taken into account. Bruguera played well at altitude, then you have Muster who played well in Mexico City, but struggled at Kitzi, one had better fields and the other higher elevation.

My point is 565m is not that significant really when it comes to altitude.

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Another factor that is often overlooked is the size and shape of the arenas. Madrid's Magic Box seems to be a bit like the Rod Laver Arena: open air, but with a rather small open roof surface and a semi-indoor general stand. The wind is going to circulate differently, most often affecting the play less and therefore causing the game to be slightly faster.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 03:44 PM
The Madrid venue, there is a lot of shade from the roof, so Har-Tru makes a good point with the wind.

miura
05-11-2009, 03:53 PM
New and intersting, yes. But it's not the most intersting clay tournament. Far from it. Let's see how the tourney pans out and then decide how it went later, no?

Merton
05-11-2009, 03:54 PM
The important thing is whether Madrid will provide new information with respect to performance at RG. I doubt this is the case, regardless of what happens. Actually the main clay events so far did not provide new information either, they just confirmed what we already knew.

Funny how some people still take seriously Nadal's statements as an indication of self doubt.

l_mac
05-11-2009, 04:01 PM
Can I just check that no-one, and I mean AJ, thinks Nadal has said they need altitude sickness tablets and breathing aparatus to play in Madrid? Because he hasn't. His main complaints have been about the "showbiz" elements Tiriac wanted to bring in, and the positioning of Madrid in the calender considering it is the least similar in conditions to Paris.

He was also very vocal about not wanting Hamburg to lose its MS status so, despite the event now being held in his home country, he was predisoposed to be anti.

I never thought the altitide would make a difference, Nadal should be the favorite by far. But i think he is making way too much noise in the press before RG, as if he is starting to doubt himself. IF he thought he was the favorite as well why would he care about the altitude? Everyone has to deal with it.
Yeah, in every presser he has mentioned that the conditions are the same for everyone. I don't really understand your point :confused:
Nadal always says everyone else is the favourite.
I've heard him say many times this week he is not the favourite. Oh, wait. I haven't heard him say that at all :)

l_mac
05-11-2009, 04:06 PM
It has the worst website of any big tournament. Awful.

finishingmove
05-11-2009, 04:07 PM
the website is disfunctional, regardless of browser :worship:

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 04:08 PM
oh so it wasn't me who couldn't find the order of play anywhere on the website.

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 04:13 PM
Whats up with this website when does Roger play?

philosophicalarf
05-11-2009, 04:21 PM
Breaks so far are running at 22%, same as Munich (which is slightly lower altitude, but maybe they did end up using marginally slower balls here as they hinted at). Monte Carlo this year was 32%, Rome 26%, so it's a good progression so far - a wider range of different speeds now than it used to be though, a few years ago the three clay masters were all 25-30%.

Ace count is about 60% higher than Monte Carlo, and about a third more than Rome.

philosophicalarf
05-11-2009, 04:22 PM
oh so it wasn't me who couldn't find the order of play anywhere on the website.


They always stick em up here:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/draws/

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 04:24 PM
They always stick em up here:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/draws/

That link doesnt open for me, the atp site is messed up these days. Can you post the oder of play here?

TennisViewer531
05-11-2009, 05:14 PM
I agree that the Madrid site's a bit messed up...

Har-Tru
05-11-2009, 06:13 PM
They always stick em up here:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/draws/

Cheers. I managed to find it after a while. :)

r2473
05-11-2009, 07:39 PM
Is the number 1 pressure finally getting to him? Is he starting to finally doubt himself after al this domination on clay?

Nadal has been showing serious signs of weakness on clay this year :rolleyes:

fred perry
05-11-2009, 07:51 PM
Nadal wins but only because FED tanks and avoids him in the final. Such a strategist this Federer. :worship:

ORGASMATRON
05-11-2009, 08:00 PM
Nadal wins but only because FED tanks and avoids him in the final. Such a strategist this Federer. :worship:

Ahhh i see, now we're getting somewhere :devil:

MacTheKnife
05-12-2009, 01:16 AM
One sure fire way to make it not rain is to put a roof on 3 courts. No friggin way it will rain this week. Couldn't believe how many times today Goodall prayed for rain to see the roofs work.

heartbroken
05-12-2009, 01:23 AM
I do think Nadal will win, probably convincingly, but I'm very much interested in the event anyway. It's the last chance for some players to make a statement before FO... :)

fast_clay
05-12-2009, 02:46 AM
any pics on this new stadium + mandatory pics of madrid ballgirls please thanks

cheers in advance

TennisViewer531
05-12-2009, 04:16 AM
you can check out the madrid open website or ATP tour site as well.. ;)

ORGASMATRON
05-12-2009, 09:57 AM
I dont find a schedule of play for today anywhere, i dont even know which day Fed is playing. Does anyone know the schedule of play?

finishingmove
05-12-2009, 10:03 AM
fed is playing 8pm cet

ORGASMATRON
05-12-2009, 10:32 AM
Ok thanks how did you know?

finishingmove
05-12-2009, 10:33 AM
click on order of play...

http://www.atpworldtour.com/tennis/3/en/draws/

ORGASMATRON
05-12-2009, 11:18 AM
Thats the same thing i got its yesterdays schedule lol.

finishingmove
05-12-2009, 11:27 AM
they update it every day

ORGASMATRON
05-12-2009, 11:30 AM
Lol. I clicked on it and it was yesterdays schedule.

HeretiC
05-12-2009, 11:32 AM
Judging from the stats that philosophicalarf has provided this is supposed to be a fast clay. If the weather (courts) stays dry it will get even a bit faster. But the speed is not going to bother Nadal much if the bounce is high, it is the bounce that it is most important for his style. The higher it bounces the more effective is his offensive FH , and the lower the bounce is the less time he has to get below the ball with his grip. On the other hand his flat BH has a reverse role. He handles lower bounce better and higher bounce a bit worse.
From what I have seen so far the bounce on courts is definitely a lower than RG or MC, so an attacking players might get some sort of a chance here.

HeretiC
05-12-2009, 11:42 AM
As for the courts, I do like Manolo Santana, it is an impressive stadium, but IMO Vicario is an abomination, it looks like a frickin prison box with a tiny roof window. :shrug:

finishingmove
05-12-2009, 11:42 AM
Lol. I clicked on it and it was yesterdays schedule.

refresh the page?

Action Jackson
05-12-2009, 11:51 AM
Plenty of atmosphere there.

FairWeatherFan
05-12-2009, 12:25 PM
'Interesting clay event' - good oxymoron here.

Nacho
05-12-2009, 12:45 PM
I used GoogleEarth to check the altitude of the most important tournaments:



Australian Open ................... 15 m

Miami .............................. 0 m (lowest, sea level)
Indian Wells ...................... 44 m

Monte Carlo ....................... 30 m
Rome .............................. 24 m
Madrid ........................... 565 m (current highest)
(old Hamburg masters) ............. 20 m
Roland Garros ..................... 37 m

Wimbledon ......................... 30 m

Toronto .......................... 187 m
Montreal .......................... 57 m
Cincinnatti ...................... 238 m
US Open ............................ 4 m

Beijing ........................... 47 m
(old Madrid Masters) ............. 634 m (former highest)
Paris ............................. 33 m

Kiedis
05-12-2009, 02:06 PM
any pics on this new stadium + mandatory pics of madrid ballgirls please thanks

cheers in advance

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=143533

Matt01
05-12-2009, 09:34 PM
Go to the Madrid forum here, you lazy little idiot.

And the OOP for tomorrow hasn't been released. Clown.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

vidanhv
05-12-2009, 09:42 PM
The only guys who can challenge Rafa on clay are Djokovic, Federer, Murray.

Federer is currently playing crap tennis; Djokovic will probably be too tired to put up his best tennis; Murray has been playing defensive tennis against Nadal on clay, which got him nowhere.

I hope for the best, but this could end being the most boring clay event of the year.
Its strange you included Muzza in this group. He simply does not belong to that group in this context.

fast_clay
05-12-2009, 11:33 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=143533

cheers for that...

seen any flesh...?

freeandlonely
05-13-2009, 11:19 AM
I don't know...
But it's kind of interesting to wait for a big upset...
As the tendency this year 3 of top4 makes M1000 SF...
Also one early out for each of top4...

Kiedis
05-13-2009, 12:36 PM
cheers for that...

seen any flesh...?

Always thinking about the same thing ;)...

Ball girls casting:

http://www.madrid-open.com/media/uploads/fotos/a_IMG_6139.jpg http://www.madrid-open.com/media/uploads/fotos/a_IMG_6024.jpg
http://www.madrid-open.com/media/uploads/fotos/a_IMG_6101.jpg http://www.madrid-open.com/media/uploads/fotos/a_IMG_6015.jpg
http://www.madrid-open.com/media/uploads/fotos/a_IMG_6124.jpg http://www.madrid-open.com/media/uploads/fotos/a_1238687966_IMG_6256.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2e4x213.jpg
http://d.yimg.com/ca.yimg.com/p/090512/reuters/mtfh33067svp43ai42151620.jpg http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01239Aj00Fgh3/610x.jpg
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8382/verimagenphp.jpg
http://www.thatsphucked.com/images/ball%20girls/1.jpg
http://www.thatsphucked.com/images/ball%20girls/2.jpg
http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Laura+Sanchez+Feliciano+Lopez+Attend+Model+JOej3CM s6H7l.jpg

tennis2tennis
05-13-2009, 12:46 PM
i think its an important 'cause it i'll be the last chance to assess most the the field pre-RG

finishingmove
05-13-2009, 12:46 PM
as i understand, murray moves to #2 if he triumphs here

habibko
05-13-2009, 01:22 PM
as i understand, murray moves to #2 if he triumphs here

from what I heard Federer has secured the #2 spot by his win yesterday, didn't make the calculations though.

always nice to see the OP banned once more :yeah: my efforts weren't in vain :angel:

fast_clay
05-13-2009, 01:44 PM
thanks keidis... if you see any more prime cuts of meat out there, you know where to post... :yeah:

marcRD
05-13-2009, 02:26 PM
Always thinking about the same thing ;)...

Ball girls casting:
http://www.thatsphucked.com/images/ball%20girls/1.jpg

Maybe it is the most interesting clay event so far afterall...

Nacho
05-13-2009, 02:54 PM
that pic is from the old madrid tournament

Kiedis
05-13-2009, 08:30 PM
thanks keidis... if you see any more prime cuts of meat out there, you know where to post... :yeah:

Cuts of meat? I can see you're a sentimental poet. In Spain we usually prefer to use the words "Bellas señoritas" to name them :angel:

that pic is from the old madrid tournament

Yea, but I put this photo because i missed her and her twins a lot :sad:.

l_mac
05-13-2009, 11:24 PM
from what I heard Federer has secured the #2 spot by his win yesterday, didn't make the calculations though.


You might want to do those calculations.

fast_clay
05-14-2009, 01:36 AM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45772000/jpg/_45772227_ballgirl_ap.jpg
"There is drama at the beginning of the second set as a ball-girl faints and has to be taken off court"

linesman seizes opportunity for some quality time with ball girl... on the ball mate, on the ball indeed...