Federer critical of Madrid blue clay [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Federer critical of Madrid blue clay

bobbynorwich
05-10-2009, 03:46 PM
Federer puts his foot down on blue clay issue

http://www.tennistalk.com/en/news/20090510/Federer_puts_his_foot_down_on_blue_clay_issue

5/10/09 5:08 PM | Johan Lindahl

Roger Federer joined Rafael Nadal in condemning a back-door attempt by the Madrid Masters to install blue clay courts in the face of all tennis tradition.

The re-launched event, moved from October indoors onto a new surface at the 160-million-euro Magic Box had tried to quietly get approval for blue clay courts, but the men's ATP quickly knocked back the radical plan.

Federer (http://www.tennistalk.com/en/player/profile/Roger_Federer), president of the Player Council, gave a measured condemnation of the aborted plan. "I don't think there a chance for blue clay. I only saw it when I drove past it. But we are against it, red clay is the tradition".

Federer (http://www.tennistalk.com/en/player/profile/Roger_Federer) was annoyed by the lack of procedure inherent in the affair, with Madrid officials failing to go through the ATP on the matter. "You (should) go to the ATP and to the board in the normal way", said the Swiss still looking for his first title of the season. "You don't ask individual players".

"That is only dividing us, it should anyway be a unanimous decision".

TennisViewer531
05-10-2009, 03:55 PM
I guess the blue courts give an impression that they're playing on carpet.. not a great way to warm-up for an upcoming Grand Slam tourney...


---
www.tennisguru.net

Sunset of Age
05-10-2009, 04:05 PM
I guess the blue courts give an impression that they're playing on carpet.. not a great way to warm-up for an upcoming Grand Slam tourney...

From what I heard, it's only a couple of outdoor courts being turned blue. I hope that's indeed true.

Feds and Nads are of course completely right about this abomination. Only a colourblind player would approve of it, as he wouldn't notice.

Burrow
05-10-2009, 04:11 PM
well, he would notice, cause it wouldn't be orange.

ORGASMATRON
05-10-2009, 04:13 PM
Fed is old school so no surprises about the blue clay. I agree with him about the making decisions by following the normal route instead of trying to go through the back door :o

Garson007
05-10-2009, 04:18 PM
Who cares really? Yellow on blue would be easier to see anyways.

chammer44
05-10-2009, 05:03 PM
Who cares really? Yellow on blue would be easier to see anyways.

Exactly.

I wish they would at least watch a game or practice session on television before griping.

The tradition-mongering is ridiculous. Show up with a wooden racquet at Madrid and I'll be impressed.

MacTheKnife
05-10-2009, 05:06 PM
Blue clay, why not, it's green at Wimbledon. No wait, that's an organic hard court.

ORGASMATRON
05-10-2009, 05:10 PM
I agree with you guys whats the big deal of having one blue clay court tournament, theyre already playing on blue on hard courts. I can understand Roger being ike this cos he is old scholl but Rafa is full of shit. If he really cared about tradition he would start serve and volleying or complain about the courts at Wimby. I think one blue court would make things interesting, no threat to tradition.

Corey Feldman
05-10-2009, 05:14 PM
dont get used to the blue clay Fedmug, you wont last 2 rounds anyway :o

chammer44
05-10-2009, 05:24 PM
"I understand about the blue clay," says Tiriac, "it's about tradition."

"All right then, no more pretty ball girls either."

"Plunk." (Fed and Nadal's hearts sink)

JolánGagó
05-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Tiriac go and f**k yourself. Shove the blue clay up your arse.

MacTheKnife
05-10-2009, 05:29 PM
There is a football team in the US that plays on a blue field, and it looks stupid as hell.

jonathancrane
05-10-2009, 05:46 PM
Green clay was nice to see

habibko
05-10-2009, 05:53 PM
Tiriac go and f**k yourself. Shove the blue clay up your arse.

all that needs to be said, hopefully the players will have the balls to say it in his face and take some action.

dusk
05-10-2009, 06:01 PM
I say, each court in different colour!:yeah:

w78dexon_y
05-10-2009, 06:02 PM
if it can be green, why couldn't be blue? We've already seen blue courts (AO plexicution) !
It's weird though that they built it first and then they asked players for their opinion?? Instead of asking them first and then build it? Who knows. To me, colour shouldn't matter, as long as the quality is there.

For a good player any colour would be alright. For a poor one, no colour would do.

MacTheKnife
05-10-2009, 06:02 PM
I say, each court in different colour!:yeah:

Or like team tennis..:haha:

dusk
05-10-2009, 06:04 PM
Or like team tennis..:haha:

Oh, that one is a bit neurotic :D

MadHatter
05-10-2009, 06:33 PM
So are the courts actually blue?

finishingmove
05-10-2009, 06:36 PM
this federer talks alot of shit..

oh wait.. this time he's right..

Action Jackson
05-10-2009, 06:37 PM
Tiriac will have his hoods take care of them.

jonathancrane
05-10-2009, 06:40 PM
Il capo & Vilas circa 82


http://www.80s-tennis.com/images/ellesse/ellesse80_2.jpg

Action Jackson
05-10-2009, 06:44 PM
http://www.whatsalltheracquet.com/archives/images/tiriac-thumb.JPG

Boris begging for more.
http://www.ziarulfaclia.ro/ppics/900_Ion%20Tiriac%20s%20Boris%20Becker.jpg

alfonsojose
05-10-2009, 06:48 PM
Don't blame Boris and Santana. That moustache must feel good while rimming your :ignore: :drool:

Action Jackson
05-10-2009, 07:04 PM
Alfie, Tiriac doesn't do the rimming, it's the minions that do.

BackhandMissile
05-10-2009, 07:10 PM
. I can understand Roger being ike this cos he is old scholl but Rafa is full of shit. If he really cared about tradition he would start serve and volleying or complain about the courts at Wimby.

Yeah because Federer serves and volleys right :wavey:

heya
05-10-2009, 07:53 PM
Yeah because Federer serves and volleys right :wavey:Don't you know? He would be so unlucky in 2004 and 2005 with blue courts.
I'm sure his mother would've cried with anguish, instead of pleasure like she did in the precious Rogi Biography (Tennis Channel).

Roddickominator
05-10-2009, 08:04 PM
There is a football team in the US that plays on a blue field, and it looks stupid as hell.

lmao....yeah Boise State's field looks ridiculous. If Wimbledon decided to make the grass blue....that would be comparable.

These guys whining about blue clay is ridiculous. There have been MANY changes in the racket strings, balls, and actual surfaces over the past 10 years, and i've hardly heard either of them even acknowledge that. But the moment they decide to do something as harmless as make the clay on a court blue....they're all over it.

Just ridiculous, selfish behavior from Rogi and Nadal.

LinkMage
05-10-2009, 08:12 PM
I don't see what the problem is here. There are lots of tournaments being played on blue clay already these days. :confused:

Aenea
05-10-2009, 08:45 PM
How much blue is the "blue" clay? Any pics?

I am all about the blue clay :clap2: Why not? I want orange grass, too :D

bluefork
05-10-2009, 08:59 PM
If blue clay plays differently from red clay, then I'd understand why the players have a problem. But they play on different colored hard courts all the time and don't complain. And there used to be tournaments played on green clay, and the color was never an issue then, as far as I know. What's the big deal about playing on blue clay?

Kiedis
05-10-2009, 09:17 PM
If blue clay plays differently from red clay, then I'd understand why the players have a problem. But they play on different colored hard courts all the time and don't complain. And there used to be tournaments played on green clay, and the color was never an issue then, as far as I know. What's the big deal about playing on blue clay?

You should press charges against them for racial discrimination :p

http://www.menstennisforums.com/customavatars/avatar24819_1.gif

Vive Les Bleus!

Seriously, they talk about tradition and and the mark left by the ball to bounce is more difficult to see but I think it has more to do with problems related to the clothing brands that sponsor them :rolleyes:.

guapogreg08
05-10-2009, 09:17 PM
If blue clay plays differently from red clay, then I'd understand why the players have a problem. But they play on different colored hard courts all the time and don't complain. And there used to be tournaments played on green clay, and the color was never an issue then, as far as I know. What's the big deal about playing on blue clay?

like most have said, all this "tradition" stuff is total crap. you got the point across perfectly; if it hinders play AT ALL, it shouldn't be used, but otherwise, i think its a great idea to mix things and give a unique aspect to the new tournament, which has already shown itself to be a little unconventional with its magic box and whatnot. rafa's "deep and profound" words are a load of bollocks if you ask me, and rogers standing for tradition is totally hypocritical considering how technology has changed the game more than fucking blue clay ever will

btw theres a pic of the blue clay on tennisforum if anyones interested (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=376925&page=6)

guapogreg08
05-10-2009, 09:18 PM
here it is

Lee
05-10-2009, 09:18 PM
So are the courts actually blue?

How much blue is the "blue" clay? Any pics?

I am all about the blue clay :clap2: Why not? I want orange grass, too :D

check this out

FNnVEJ6n-hk

w78dexon_y
05-10-2009, 09:23 PM
Blue?
Rog is looking for an excuse for his next early exit. You remember: dark, rain, and now "the color". So, i know I can bet against him and make tonnes of money.:D

w78dexon_y
05-10-2009, 09:28 PM
check this out

FNnVEJ6n-hk

check what? Didn't understand a single word.

Sunset of Age
05-10-2009, 09:29 PM
check what? Didn't understand a single word.

your problem not ours. :p

Sapeod
05-10-2009, 09:29 PM
Blue?
Rog is looking for an excuse for his next early exit. You remember: dark, rain, and now "the color". So, i know I can bet against him and make tonnes of money.:D
Go ahead. Remember to crawl back when you lose all your money :D

w78dexon_y
05-10-2009, 09:39 PM
your problem not ours. :p

who the hella are ("ours") you .

w78dexon_y
05-10-2009, 09:41 PM
Go ahead. Remember to crawl back when you lose all your money :D

Rafa too. (early exit). Rafa on purpose though. Rog coz he just can`t do it anymore deep in the tourney.

ORGASMATRON
05-10-2009, 10:05 PM
Team tennis looks gay but blue clay would look great. Sorry Fed.

thrust
05-10-2009, 10:10 PM
Exactly.

I wish they would at least watch a game or practice session on television before griping.

The tradition-mongering is ridiculous. Show up with a wooden racquet at Madrid and I'll be impressed.

LOL!! I don't see the big deal. USO and AO were on green courts, now blue. Just another thing for the spoiled brats to complain about.

schorsch
05-10-2009, 10:11 PM
They said in that vid that it doesn't leave good marks on the court... so, that's another thing thing that speaks against it. But Rafa doesn't like the blue courts, so Roger should see this as an opportunity to have 0.000483421345% more of a chance to beat him :devil: :p

I guess in Roger's case it's really about tradition, in Rafa's case rather a "fear" that the courts would be so different that it could bother his game. The tourna org. said they have worked on this for over a year to get a blue clay that plays "exactly the same"...

GlennMirnyi
05-10-2009, 11:05 PM
Federer is another hypocrite.

Tradition only works for him if it's in his favour.

Despicable attitude.

FlavorNuts
05-10-2009, 11:13 PM
Ball visibility is an issue on clay. Good to see they're finally trying to remedy it.

heya
05-10-2009, 11:45 PM
But Rafa doesn't like the blue courts, so Roger should see this as an opportunity to have 0.000483421345% more of a chance to beat him :devil: :p

I guess in Roger's case it's really about tradition, in Rafa's case rather a "fear" that the courts would be so different that it could bother his game. The tourna org. said they have worked on this for over a year to get a blue clay that plays "exactly the same"...The mononucleosis 'beat' him the last time he bitched about blue courts. At least Tommy Haas didn't cancel a clay match, to give Federer a 5-day vacation. Oh, well. It's not like Dr. Fed cured cancer.

w78dexon_y
05-11-2009, 01:21 AM
Ball visibility is an issue on clay. Good to see they're finally trying to remedy it.

couldn't they change colour of the ball to blue??

sammy01
05-11-2009, 01:36 AM
i like the idea of blue clay and hey if you are going to go for it do it on all 3 main show courts in the magic box and have hawke eye on all 3 courts to if marks dont show so much, the clay is boring anyway when the umpire gets of his chair and points the ball was out if the player circled the mark, or gives it in if they dont lol.

FlavorNuts
05-11-2009, 01:44 AM
couldn't they change colour of the ball to blue??no.

dusk
05-11-2009, 01:47 AM
here it is

Love it!:D

reena
05-11-2009, 02:04 AM
Can someone explain to me what is so bad about blue clay?

So long as it does not affect how the clay plays, what is the problem?

Guga_fan
05-11-2009, 02:18 AM
I liked the blue clay and it solves the problem about the visibility of the ball on TV, I hope they really use this clay next year.

w78dexon_y
05-11-2009, 02:22 AM
well, I figure blue ball, or green ball should do well on red clay. That's perhaps what they should change: the color of the ball. Go to green. It's eye friendly too.

TennisViewer531
05-11-2009, 02:48 AM
I guess it's not the question of having a blue claycourt but the manner on how it was proposed - going through the backdoor or something...

Updated report: http://www.tennisguru.net/2009/05/10/french-tennis-star-tested-positive-for-cocaine-report/

rafa_maniac
05-11-2009, 03:49 AM
I'm not violently opposed to the idea, but I just don't see the point. You COULD have blue clay, but why would you want to? Why not pink clay then? Keep it so we have green for the grass season, red for the clay, and blue for hardcourt. Ball visibility? The camera angle is the main issue there.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 04:06 AM
Hahahaha, such thoughtful responses, blue clay is not going to play the same, there is only so much engineering of conditions that can done and nothing can be replicated 100 percent, especially since clay and grass are natural surfaces.

tangerine_dream
05-11-2009, 04:15 AM
That blue clay is so purdy. :hearts: We'd finally be able to see the ball on TV.

Roger is an old fuddy duddy, he says no to everything. Embrace the blue!

JoshDragon
05-11-2009, 05:16 AM
What's wrong with blue clay?:confused:

TennisViewer531
05-11-2009, 05:20 AM
They could try out blue clay on lower-tier tournaments first and see the effects...

Winners last weekend: http://www.tennisguru.net/2009/05/11/tournament-winners-may-3-10/

dl05
05-11-2009, 10:32 AM
Who gives a crap about tradition? If tennis wants to become more mainstream and innovative, things have to change.

Who cares if the Ego-King rejects the plans? His shouldn't be the consencus of the tour.

ToniTennis
05-11-2009, 11:56 AM
Hahahaha, such thoughtful responses, blue clay is not going to play the same, there is only so much engineering of conditions that can done and nothing can be replicated 100 percent, especially since clay and grass are natural surfaces.

You're right, but. Do they really need for it to play exactly the same as in other courts? After all, I mean, it's been debated to enternity in these forums that clay courts are not exactly the same from tournament to tournament (MC, Rome, RG), so why this should be identical to any other else? To me, as long as the court doesn't pose any risk to the players' health and meets some minimum playing standards, then is perfectly OK. Even talking about tradition in a brand bew tourney seems out of place.

GlennMirnyi
05-11-2009, 12:02 PM
Who gives a crap about tradition? If tennis wants to become more mainstream and innovative, things have to change.

Who cares if the Ego-King rejects the plans? His shouldn't be the consencus of the tour.

Any real tennis fan knows it's a sport based on tradition.

I guess you're just another fanboy/gloryhunter.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 12:04 PM
You're right, but. Do they really need for it to play exactly the same as in other courts? After all, I mean, it's been debated to enternity in these forums that clay courts are not exactly the same from tournament to tournament (MC, Rome, RG), so why this should be identical to any other else? To me, as long as the court doesn't pose any risk to the players' health and meets some minimum playing standards, then is perfectly OK. Even talking about tradition in a brand bew tourney seems out of place.

It's just a classic Tiriac stunt, then again this is the guy who said he was ready for RR since the 70s. Next of all, they aren't doing it just to be different, it's because the main colour of the sponsor is blue, therefore the blue clay court is a cheap sponsorship plug.

MC, Rome and RG are all still made of the same stuff aren't they? The amounts of clay and what they are laid on as a foundation differ, but the composition of the materials are still the same.

It's another one lets change something for the sake of it.

dl05
05-11-2009, 12:06 PM
Any real tennis fan knows it's a sport based on tradition.

I guess you're just another fanboy/gloryhunter.

Yeah the fundamentals are in tradition, but there shouldn't be a lack of progression because of it.

Anyway it would still be clay, not like they're proposing wooden planks.

Merton
05-11-2009, 12:08 PM
Typical Tiriac crap, hopefully the players will block this nonsense.

Even if "blue clay" plays ideally, the economic surplus generated through greater sponsor exposure should not end up entirely in Tiriac's pockets, I bet that Madrid tax payers and ATP players will want a piece of it.

GlennMirnyi
05-11-2009, 12:09 PM
Yeah the fundamentals are in tradition, but there shouldn't be a lack of progression because of it.

Anyway it would still be clay, not like they're proposing wooden planks.

Blue clay is a joke, not a progression.

Wooden planks would be nice.

dl05
05-11-2009, 12:11 PM
Blue clay is a joke, not a progression.

Wooden planks would be nice.

Maybe we've started something now?;)

Merton
05-11-2009, 12:13 PM
Blue clay is a joke, not a progression.

Wooden planks would be nice.

It is obviously a joke, but in my mind it is not the capriciousness but the money grab that is the most important issue here, Tiriac tries to capture greater fees from the main sponsor without any regard for the other consituents of the tournament.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 12:19 PM
It is obviously a joke, but in my mind it is not the capriciousness but the money grab that is the most important issue here, Tiriac tries to capture greater fees from the main sponsor without any regard for the other consituents of the tournament.

Well it's not like he is investing his own money, then again it's not like the money isn't laundered. This is all part of the Madrid Olympic bid, the classic promise everything and use their money in the process and when they don't get it, then might not have been the wisest investment.

Federer and Rafa have complained about the surface, but Djokovic won't, especially when he is managed by Tiriac indirectly.

ToniTennis
05-11-2009, 01:26 PM
It's just a classic Tiriac stunt, then again this is the guy who said he was ready for RR since the 70s. Next of all, they aren't doing it just to be different, it's because the main colour of the sponsor is blue, therefore the blue clay court is a cheap sponsorship plug.

I know the sponsor issue, it's just that I don't really see it that bad as long as it doesen't affect what would be considered a typical clay game. This is a pro sport, so sponsors are everywere. Mind you, what used to be a certain tourney now it also carries the sponsor's name, be it Rolex, Rogers, Babnco Sabadell...

MC, Rome and RG are all still made of the same stuff aren't they? The amounts of clay and what they are laid on as a foundation differ, but the composition of the materials are still the same.

Yes, they are, but then again, green clay courts are also made of a
different material, aren´t they? and the court is still called clay. Perhaps naming all these courts as soft would do it?

It's another one lets change something for the sake of it.

I see your point, and I agree that not all changes are necessarily good, but neither are necessarily bad. Like I said, this is a pro sport, so I guess the managers of every tournament need to find new ways to get the money. Some years ago, people said fashion models doing the ball kids work was a bad idea, but they are here to stay, so it seems. The thing is, if people really don't like an innovation, it will probably be left apart in no time. I am personally more against commercials between breaks and find it gets in the way a watch a tennis match but, alas, that's not gonna change.

I think we have to agree to disagree.

Guga_fan
05-11-2009, 01:30 PM
I'm watching Tsonga vs Safin right now, and the ball is almost invisible most of the time, even if it goes against the tradition the blue clay would solve this problem.

Action Jackson
05-11-2009, 01:37 PM
I know the sponsor issue, it's just that I don't really see it that bad as long as it doesen't affect what would be considered a typical clay game. This is a pro sport, so sponsors are everywere. Mind you, what used to be a certain tourney now it also carries the sponsor's name, be it Rolex, Rogers, Babnco Sabadell...


Not the same thing at all. That is what the advertising space for is at the event or during TV commercials, for the tournament sponsors to have their brand take pride and place around the tournament facility. That's where it stays and no need for it, when it comes to the surface.

Well none of the players like the surface, when it's only being done for lining Tiriac's pocket, then no good.

Yes, they are, but then again, green clay courts are also made of a
different material, aren´t they? and the court is still called clay. Perhaps naming all these courts as soft would do it?

Well it's called green clay for a reason, because of the different components and no it does not play the same as the red clay and it wouldn't due to the composition and the weather impacts on it. It might say clay on the PDF sheets, but anyone who follows the tour knows that the green clay events are in North America.

Clay and grass are natural surfaces, just leave it at that.


I see your point, and I agree that not all changes are necessarily good, but neither are necessarily bad. Like I said, this is a pro sport, so I guess the managers of every tournament need to find new ways to get the money. Some years ago, people said fashion models doing the ball kids work was a bad idea, but they are here to stay, so it seems. The thing is, if people really don't like an innovation, it will probably be left apart in no time. I am personally more against commercials between breaks and find it gets in the way a watch a tennis match but, alas, that's not gonna change.

I think we have to agree to disagree.

I don't think you do see my point. There are changes that are beneficial for the sport, when they are done properly and thought through. This is not one of them at all, a fucking cheap gimmick to line the pockets of Tiriac, but of no benefit to the greater tennis community.

The tiebreaker was a good innovation. The goalkeeper not being allowed to pick up a backpass in football a good one, 3 points for win, away goals counting for double. Every point is a scoring point in volleyball, these are practical, well thought out innovations that improved their games.

You sound like the type that thought Round Robin was a good idea.

«Ivan»
05-11-2009, 01:41 PM
federer became such a p***y cry baby.i wonder did she cried blue tears.

jmsx521
05-11-2009, 01:48 PM
How about red with stripes of blue... kind of like the way they do the soccer fields in different shades of green.

alfonsojose
05-11-2009, 02:21 PM
Alfie, Tiriac doesn't do the rimming, it's the minions that do.

:lol: Well said

alfonsojose
05-11-2009, 02:24 PM
How about red with stripes of blue... kind of like the way they do the soccer fields in different shades of green.

Maybe half-red, half-blue, like the stupid Pocahontas/BabyFed exho

ToniTennis
05-12-2009, 07:00 AM
Not the same thing at all. That is what the advertising space for is at the event or during TV commercials, for the tournament sponsors to have their brand take pride and place around the tournament facility. That's where it stays and no need for it, when it comes to the surface.

Well none of the players like the surface, when it's only being done for lining Tiriac's pocket, then no good.



Well it's called green clay for a reason, because of the different components and no it does not play the same as the red clay and it wouldn't due to the composition and the weather impacts on it. It might say clay on the PDF sheets, but anyone who follows the tour knows that the green clay events are in North America.

Clay and grass are natural surfaces, just leave it at that.




I don't think you do see my point. There are changes that are beneficial for the sport, when they are done properly and thought through. This is not one of them at all, a fucking cheap gimmick to line the pockets of Tiriac, but of no benefit to the greater tennis community.

The tiebreaker was a good innovation. The goalkeeper not being allowed to pick up a backpass in football a good one, 3 points for win, away goals counting for double. Every point is a scoring point in volleyball, these are practical, well thought out innovations that improved their games.

You sound like the type that thought Round Robin was a good idea.


Actually, I don't mind round robin although it's not my favourite format for a tennis competition.:D

So your point is that any change in a tournament must necessarily improve the game, no neutral changes at all. Too drastic imo, but OK, that's what you think. It's just that I believe that these neutral (and I agree that this is a matter of your own consideration) changes are harmless and shouldn't affect the player's game. Yes, it's a very evident change, but I don't think it's more than changing from a surface to another on the same Slam, as has already happened.

And no, I don't like Tiriac, just as I don't like many other goons in the sport, but I'm trying not to let that affect my judgement over a very particular point.