H2H against top 4 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

H2H against top 4

mgorganchian
02-14-2009, 12:12 AM
Updated after US Open Final

This is the comparison on how the top 75 players H2H is against the top 5 (I added another column for Del Potro as now he has reached enough level to include it as a very difficult opponent to beat for the rest of the top players):

This week, Del Potro, Cilic and Federer improved their percentage.



# | Player |Federer| Nadal | Murray|Djokov.|Del Po.| Total |W%
1 |Federer |00 |7-13 |3-6 | 9-4 |6-1 |25-24 |51%
2 |Nadal |13-7 |00 |7-2 | 14-5 |4-3 |38-17 |69%
3 |Murray |6-3 |2-7 |00 | 3-4 |4-1 |15-15 |50%
4 |Djokovic |4-9 |5-14 |4-3 | 00 |30 |16-26 |38%
5 |Del Potro |1-6 |3-4 |1-4 | 0-3 |0-0 |5-17 |23%
6 |Roddick |2-19 |2-5 |3-6 | 4-2 |0-3 |11-35 |24%
7 |Tsonga |1-1 |1-3 |1-2 | 4-2 |0-3 |7-11 |39%
8 |Davydenko |0-12 |2-4 |4-5 | 1-2 |2-1 |9-24 |27%
9 |Verdasco |0-3 |0-9 |1-6 | 2-4 |0-0 |3-22 |12%
10|Simon |2-0 |1-3 |1-3 | 1-3 |1-1 |6-10 |38%
11|Soderling |0-12 |1-3 |1-2 | 0-3 |1-1 |3-21 |13%
12|Gonzalez |1-12 |3-7 |2-1 | 2-1 |3-1 |11-22 |33%
13|Monfils |0-5 |1-5 |1-2 | 0-3 |0-0 |2-15 |12%
14|Nalbandian |8-10 |2-1 |2-0 | 1-2 |3-1 |16-14 |53%
15|Cilic |0-1 |0-0 |1-3 | 0-3 |0-2 |1-9 |10%
16|Robredo |0-9 |0-4 |2-2 | 1-5 |0-2 |3-22 |12%
17|Stepanek |2-8 |0-4 |0-3 | 1-4 |1-0 |4-19 |17%
18|Berdych |1-8 |3-5 |1-1 | 0-2 |1-2 |6-18 |25%
19|Ferrer |0-9 |3-8 |1-1 | 4-4 |2-2 |10-24 |29%
20|Haas |2-10 |0-4 |1-2 | 2-2 |0-1 |5-19 |21%
21|Ferrero |3-9 |2-6 |0-3 | 1-1 |2-1 |8-20 |29%
22|Wawrinka |1-3 |0-4 |3-5 | 2-6 |2-2 |8-20 |29%
23|Kohlschreiber |0-4 |0-4 |0-0 | 1-1 |0-2 |1-11 |8%
24|Blake |1-9 |3-2 |1-1 | 0-1 |1-0 |6-13 |32%
25|Querrey |0-2 |0-3 |0-3 | 0-2 |0-1 |0-11 |0%




# | Player |Federer| Nadal | Murray|Djokov.|Del Po.| Total |W%
26|Hewitt |7-16 |4-5 |0-1 | 1-3 |1-1 |13-26 |33%
27|Mathieu |0-4 |0-9 |0-3 | 1-4 |0-1 |1-21 |5%
28|Hanescu |0-3 |0-3 |0-1 | 0-2 |0-2 |0-11 |0%
29|Sela |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-2 |1-2 |1-5 |17%
30|Almagro |0-5 |0-4 |1-1 | 0-1 |0-0 |1-11 |8%
31|Karlovic |1-9 |0-2 |0-3 | 1-1 |1-0 |3-15 |17%
32|Troicki |0-1 |0-2 |0-3 | 1-1 |0-4 |1-11 |8%
33|Chardy |0-0 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-3 |0-0 |0-4 |0%
34|Lopez |0-7 |1-4 |0-2 | 0-2 |2-2 |3-17 |15%
35|Petzschner |0-0 |0-2 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-3 |0%
36|Benneteau |0-2 |1-1 |0-2 | 1-3 |0-0 |2-8 |20%
37|Monaco |0-1 |1-2 |1-1 | 0-2 |1-1 |3-7 |30%
38|Tursunov |0-3 |0-2 |0-5 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-11 |0%
39|Isner |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-2 |0-3 |0%
40|Melzer |0-0 |0-2 |0-4 | 0-2 |0-5 |0-13 |0%
41|Santoro |2-9 |0-1 |0-2 | 1-1 |0-1 |3-14 |18%
42|Becker |0-1 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-3 |0%
43|Andreev |0-2 |1-4 |0-0 | 0-4 |0-4 |1-14 |7%
44|Beck |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
45|Kunitsyn |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-2 |0-2 |0%
46|Montanes |0-2 |0-2 |0-2 | 0-3 |1-0 |1-9 |10%
47|Ljubicic |3-12 |1-4 |2-3 | 1-4 |1-0 |8-23 |26%
48|Gasquet |1-6 |0-7 |2-1 | 1-2 |1-2 |5-18 |22%
49|Vassallo-Argu |0-0 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-1 |0-3 |0%
50|Zverev |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-1 |0-3 |0%




# | Player |Federer| Nadal | Murray|Djokov.|Del Po.| Total |W%
51|Acasuso |0-5 |0-2 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-8 |0%
52|Youzhny |0-10 |4-7 |0-1 | 2-3 |0-1 |6-22 |21%
53|Fish |1-5 |0-5 |1-3 | 0-3 |2-1 |4-17 |19%
54|Mayer L |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
55|Garcia-Lopez |0-3 |0-2 |0-1 | 0-2 |0-0 |0-8 |0%
56|Daniel |0-1 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-2 |0%
57|Koeller |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |0-1 |0%
58|Tipsarevic |0-2 |0-2 |2-3 | 0-2 |0-1 |2-10 |17%
59|Seppi |0-5 |1-4 |1-2 | 0-6 |0-0 |2-17 |11%
60|Cuevas |0-0 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
61|Safin |2-10 |0-1 |1-0 | 2-0 |0-0 |5-11 |31%
62|Nieminen |0-10 |0-5 |0-2 | 1-2 |0-2 |1-21 |5%
63|Hernych |0-0 |0-1 |1-0 | 1-2 |0-2 |2-5 |29%
64|Bolelli |0-1 |0-1 |0-2 | 0-3 |1-1 |1-8 |11%
65|Bellucci |0-0 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |0-2 |0%
66|Zeballos |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
67|Serra |0-0 |0-3 |0-0 | 1-2 |0-0 |1-5 |17%
68|Golubev |0-0 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
69|Gonzalez |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
70|Gicquel |0-3 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-5 |0%
71|Luczak |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
72|Martin |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
73|Minar |0-4 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |0-5 |0%
74|Lu |0-1 |0-0 |1-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |1-2 |33%
75|Ginepri |0-5 |0-1 |0-3 | 0-4 |0-1 |0-14 |0%


|65- 323|48- 203|51- 117|59- 140|42- 74|265- 857|24%
| 17% | 19% | 30% | 30% | 36% | 24% |



These stats are taken from the atpworldtour site. The stats are including retires in the H2H count due that atp site is adding them as well.



If we consider the players that have enough H2H matches, we can see that:
Nadal has the best record. In second place we have Nalbandian. In third we have Federer and then we have Murray, [b] Tsonga, Djokovic and Simon.

It is interesting to see that only Nadal , Nalbandian and Federer have a positive W/L record against top 5.

Also if we see the performance of the top 5 against all 75 players, Federer has the best record, only loosing 17% of the matches, then Nadal with 19%.

It is a surprise for me that Murray and Djokovic are loosing 30% of their matches against top 75 which is almost 1 loose every 3 matches.


On the other hand these Top 75 players have never won a match to any of the top 5. The worst records are for:
Ginepri: 0 -14
Melzer : 0 - 13
Tursunov : 0 - 11
Hanescu : 0 - 11
Querry: 0 - 11
Garcia-Lopez : 0 - 8
Acasuso : 0 - 8


Another curiosity is that these top 75 players: Beck, Mayer L, Zeballos and Martin had never played a match with the top 5.

Any thoughts, comments?

Voo de Mar
02-14-2009, 12:23 AM
Any thoughts, comments?

Del Potro is a great example that you don't need to be a competitor for the best players in the world to advance to the Top 10. Just choose right tournaments to gain ranking points beating opponents you should theoretically beat.

habibko
02-14-2009, 12:35 AM
I'm sure Nalbandian thinks he is the real GOAT thats why he can hardly motivate himself except for eating more doughnuts.

mgorganchian
02-14-2009, 01:38 AM
IMO:
This shows how consistent is Del Potro (even though he lost today to Fish) and how inconsistent is Nalbandian.
It also shows that Nalbandian, Tsonga and Simon are not intimidated by the top 4.

Other facts are that Nalbandian and Blake are the only ones with good record against Nadal and Simon is the only one with a good record against Federer.

I think that if Simon stop loosing to lower ranked players (Gasquet, Soderlin, Schwank, Mahut, Kiefer, Rochus, Stepanek) so "frequently"
will be the next #5.


By the way I doubt Nalbandian likes dougnuts...

Stefwhit
02-14-2009, 03:20 AM
cool thread. i appreciate the effort you made. Looks like Simon has handled the big four the best. It'll be interesting to see how his records shapes as he starts to play the big boys more often.

MalwareDie
02-14-2009, 04:39 AM
Looks like Simon has handled the big four the best.

You're blind

vamosinator
02-14-2009, 04:57 AM
Simon can beat Federer, and he could beat THE RAFA though no more because THE RAFA started slicing every backhand which Simon hates :D

DartMarcus
02-14-2009, 04:57 AM
This shows how good Del Mugro is.

JimmyV
02-14-2009, 05:32 AM
It's a tragedy Nalbandian has never put it all together and won a slam.

Tom Paulman
02-14-2009, 08:24 AM
It's a tragedy Nalbandian has never put it all together and won a slam.

Exactly, he deserves one.

MIMIC
02-14-2009, 08:34 AM
Del Potro :eek:

sammy01
02-14-2009, 08:51 AM
nice stats, del potro beats the players he supposed to beat, that shouldn't be sniggered at, its very tough to constantly beat everyone you should (ok fish today was a bit :weirdo:) but you get my point.

simon is a confidence player, he gets on a run and is very tough to beat and can knock off the biggest names, but also is vunerable to early loses unlike del potro.

nalbandian is a waste of talent, his fitness is just cringeworthy and its sad because he has the tools to beat the very best.

HattonWBA
02-14-2009, 12:19 PM
Great thread, but expected that Nalbandian would have the best record against these guys

mgorganchian
02-14-2009, 12:34 PM
Well after Nalbandian, Tsonga is the one with best record, but he is a bit more inconsistent than Simon with the rest of the players.

Something important to consider also is that Nalbandian has not only the best record but also he played much more than Tsonga and Simon to the top 4. He and Roddick are the ones that played more times to Federer. Also he played twice to Nadal and he won both encounters.

What is a coincidence is that the youngers ones (Cilic and Del Potro) had never won a match. I am sure that they respect Federer more than they should if they wants to offer some resistance...

In the case of Del Potro he never won a set to Federer and he only broke him on 1 game.
The stats with Nadal are a bit better, he broke 3 times in RG but also never won a set.
With DJokovic he broke him 3 times but never won a set.
And with Murray they are no such differences. In US open he won 1 set lost another one and also lost both tie breaks that were played. They converted 7 break points each other but Del Potro had more break points 18 vs 15.
In Rome he won 1 set, lost the second one and then retired on third.

jenanun
02-14-2009, 12:57 PM
how about the h2h within the top4?

GuiroNl
02-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Thanks for the effort

Would be nice if you could add the column totals as well
Nadal against 5-20
Federer against 5-20
etc.

superslam77
02-14-2009, 01:47 PM
fatso record is impressive :eek:

all the top players seem to have problem against a certain type of player.

Federerhingis
02-14-2009, 04:15 PM
Exactly, he deserves one.

He really should have won that US OPEN in '03. I am sure he has a good record against Ferrero too and that would have been a final where he would have been the favorite. Oh well...

new-york
02-14-2009, 04:30 PM
It's a tragedy Nalbandian has never put it all together and won a slam.

it is. :(

Ouragan
02-14-2009, 04:43 PM
Nalby beating Federer 8 times, that is solid stuff !

taken2121
02-14-2009, 04:47 PM
Stepanek never beatted Murray.

Federerhingis
02-14-2009, 04:52 PM
Nalby beating Federer 8 times, that is solid stuff !

Funny thing is that he used to bully Roger at the juniors, he actually prevented Roger from winning the US OPen juniors. :lol:

BackhandMissile
02-14-2009, 08:14 PM
Any thoughts, comments?

Yeah, Federer's got a lot of stepsons on the circuit.

mgorganchian
02-14-2009, 08:50 PM
I updated the image that has the Excel printscreen with the information of the top 40 updated after Rotterdam SF results. I also included the totals for Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray.
Federer has the best record, he had been beat only 12% of the times, Nadal 18%, Djokoic 26% and Murray 33%.


I am planning to add the top 40 to the table on the 1st post as well, but I want to automatize it first so I can update it on a weekly basis easily.


See how impressive is Nalbandian record, if we compare him to the top 40, he is still the only one with better record (52%) to the top 4.

After Nalbandian we have Tsonga, Simon, with VG records and then Safin, Blake and Ancic with reasonible records.

Bazooka
02-14-2009, 09:32 PM
So the day Nalbandian starts imagining he's playing a top player, he will stop being defeated by someone ranked #77 and actually acheve something.

Stop saying he "deserves" anything. Actually, maybe another player more ready to work hard, "deserves" having been born with his talent.

mgorganchian
02-14-2009, 09:39 PM
If we consider how Nalbandian plays tennis he deserves a GS and even more... On the other hand if we consider his attitude towards training we could say he is lucking he is still playing at professional level and still being a top 10.

superslam77
02-14-2009, 09:59 PM
nalbandian is the greatest roaster...too bad he is also the greatest choker against mugs :rolleyes:

dammit nalby quit the monster truck rallies and stop watching polo with maradona :help:

oh yeah and stop the donuts, burgers and lose some damn weight!:o

now go roast that pig!!! :smash:

mgorganchian
02-14-2009, 10:39 PM
Finally I could update the table for the top 40. It also updated with Rotterdam SF results.

pogotheorist
02-14-2009, 11:01 PM
how about the h2h within the top4?
I looked at that on another forum:

Who owns whom in the top 4: H2H,

Roger leads Nole 7-2
Andy leads Roger 5-2
Nole leads Andy 4-2
Rafa leads: Roger 13-6; Nole 10-4; Andy 5-1

W-L & winning percentage: Rafa 28-11=72%; Roger 15-20=43%; Andy 8-11=42%; Nole 10-19=34%.

Certinfy
02-14-2009, 11:14 PM
Nice thread mate :)

freeandlonely
02-14-2009, 11:47 PM
Whatever some may say, I'm proud of Nalby for this. I surely won't say he is the best according to this, but I won't say this is nothing either.And I don't think it's pathetic to give Nalby some credits for this, I can enjoy the good from him while not evading the bad part of him.

mgorganchian
02-15-2009, 04:27 AM
Whatever some may say, I'm proud of Nalby for this. I surely won't say he is the best according to this, but I won't say this is nothing either.And I don't think it's pathetic to give Nalby some credits for this, I can enjoy the good from him while not evading the bad part of him.

Sure, that this is something that needs to be considered, I would not say that I am proud, as everyone knows that he did not obtained these records with too much commitment to do training. Imagine how far he could had gone if he had trained more and also played 2 or 3 more tournaments per year.

I am sure that Nalbandian has one of the best returns of the circuit and that he can be very aggressive. He is an excellent tennis player but he never had interest on trying to reach the top position. I had heard plenty of comments from him saying that tennis was his job but he enjoyed more to race and to do other things...

IMO, he is smart enough to enjoy life but it is a pity for his fans that he did not tried harder.


Let me tell you that when I started this thread I was not thinking on discussing Nalbandian performance. I started it because I was almost sure that Del Potro had a very bad record and I wanted to know what were the records of the top 40. I also knew that Nalbandian had a very good record against top players but I had to finish the stats to realize how GOOD he was.

Something that nobody can discuss is that he has the best H2H record to top 4. IMO that means that he has a similar tennis level than top 4 and he can beat any of them if he is on a good day, obviously that his is #10 and that also means something.

jenanun
02-15-2009, 11:09 AM
I looked at that on another forum:


Who owns whom in the top 4: H2H,

Roger leads Nole 7-2
Andy leads Roger 5-2
Nole leads Andy 4-2
Rafa leads: Roger 13-6; Nole 10-4; Andy 5-1

W-L & winning percentage: Rafa 28-11=72%; Roger 15-20=43%; Andy 8-11=42%; Nole 10-19=34%.


Thanks.... very interesting.... just realised djoko has such a poor record against the others... and rafa is so dominant!

mgorganchian
02-15-2009, 02:11 PM
So Rafa wins the important matches (Finals and SF) much more often than the rest ones and that is simply why he is number 1.
On the other hand Roger is the top contender for the rest of the top 40 as he loost only 12% of the matches against them and Rafa lost 18%.

mgorganchian
02-16-2009, 02:21 AM
I also included the H2h between the top 4 and updated the stats after today's finals. Now Murray improved his record against Nadal.

mgorganchian
02-18-2009, 11:54 PM
I updated the information with the Top 75. See Post #1 (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=8159033)

GuiroNl
02-19-2009, 12:07 AM
I really appreciate the work :)

cocrcici
02-19-2009, 12:18 AM
I updated the information with the Top 75. See Post #1 (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=8159033)

Lu 100% :haha:

pogotheorist
02-19-2009, 04:22 PM
Good job.

mgorganchian
02-19-2009, 05:26 PM
Djokovic defetead Hernych today so he is not anymore 67% but 50%. Now Hernych has a 1 - 1 H2H record against Djokovic.

mgorganchian
02-21-2009, 10:54 PM
Updated after today's match between Tsonga and Djokovic.

Now Tsonga improved his record to 50%.

richie21
02-21-2009, 10:58 PM
Updated after today's match between Tsonga and Djokovic.

Now Tsonga improved his record to 50%.

Yep.
Federer remains the only member of top 4 to have not lost against Tsonga.....not sure it will last long if Tsonga keeps improving.

pica_pica
02-22-2009, 09:07 AM
Tsonga is mad. I think we'll have the BIG FIVE very soon.
Does anyone think that Nole's going to be another Davydenko, who consistently wins against lower ranked players but cannot beat those of higher ranking? (Definitely I don't want this to happen) Del Potro is already one.

superslam77
02-22-2009, 09:24 AM
Tsonga is mad. I think we'll have the BIG FIVE very soon.
Does anyone think that Nole's going to be another Davydenko, who consistently wins against lower ranked players but cannot beat those of higher ranking? (Definitely I don't want this to happen) Del Potro is already one.

del potro is a mug basher but not davydenko..

kolya is a SUPER ROASTER federer aside :cool:..you gave the same reasoning as the people that say federer sucks at clay because he always get roasted in the final by dullboy piggytard. :wavey:

Clydey
02-22-2009, 11:57 AM
Yep.
Federer remains the only member of top 4 to have not lost against Tsonga.....not sure it will last long if Tsonga keeps improving.

Tsonga won't beat Federer any time soon. Federer is just a bad matchup for Tsonga, like he is for Del Potro.

richie21
02-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Tsonga won't beat Federer any time soon. Federer is just a bad matchup for Tsonga, like he is for Del Potro.


Please,don't even compare Del Potro to Tsonga.
Have you seen Del Potro's record against the top 4?:rolleyes:

oranges
02-22-2009, 12:35 PM
Tsonga won't beat Federer any time soon. Federer is just a bad matchup for Tsonga, like he is for Del Potro.

What an ingenious comparison :o Lots of similarities between the two, both with regard to play style and variety and general success versus the top players. Berdych can play Federer, Tsonga certainly shouldn't do any worse, how's that for a comparison.

mgorganchian
02-23-2009, 01:08 AM
I updated this week results. See Post #1 (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=8159033)

Audacity
02-23-2009, 08:36 AM
Exactly, he deserves one.

He needs to figure out how to beat people lower ranked than he is before he truely deserves one.

mgorganchian
02-26-2009, 03:03 PM
Updated after Dubai QF Murray W/O, still pending Djokovic vs Cilic match.

mgorganchian
02-26-2009, 05:04 PM
Dubai QF. Updated after Djokovic def Cilic.

Do you think Cilic will do as Del Potro continue loosing all encounters to top 4 players?

habibko
02-26-2009, 05:21 PM
Dubai QF. Updated after Djokovic def Cilic.

Do you think Cilic will do as Del Potro continue loosing all encounters to top 4 players?

Cilic's game is a carbon copy of Del Potro's albeit less consistent for now, it's no wonder their results against the top players would be the same.

yellowboy906
02-26-2009, 05:28 PM
Updated after Dubai QF Murray W/O, still pending Djokovic vs Cilic match.

W/O don't count as a lost, right? if not, then gasquet and murray head to head should be 2:1 gasquet. why you put 3:1 on the first page?:confused:

oranges
02-26-2009, 05:59 PM
Cilic's game is a carbon copy of Del Potro's albeit less consistent for now, it's no wonder their results against the top players would be the same.

No, he's not and I'm not sure where this comes from time after time. Both like to hit big from the baseline and that's about it for similarities. Del Potro plays way less of a risky game, he likes to overpower with heavy shots from the baseline primarily. Marin will seek more angles, he mixes his shots more, varies defense and offense, is no stranger to throwing in a S/V or a rip and charge net rush. At the same time, he lacks del Potro's consistency on the strokes and it's not just because he plays a more high risk game overall.
As for results either has against the top 5, I'd give them both some time and experience in those kind matches before jumping to conclusions. It's not as if neither played a competitive match against any of those guys already.

MalwareDie
02-26-2009, 06:24 PM
Updated after Dubai QF Murray W/O, still pending Djokovic vs Cilic match.

Walkovers don't count toward head to heads.

mgorganchian
02-26-2009, 07:17 PM
Walkovers don't count toward head to heads.

Corrected. Gasquet is 2 - 1 against Murray.

mgorganchian
03-01-2009, 01:57 PM
Updated after Dubai Final Djokovic def Ferrer.

Some facts:
Who won more matches against Nadal? Federer then Djokovic
Who won more matches against Federer? Nadal then Nalbandian
Who won more matches against Djokovic? Nadal then Federer
Who won more matches against Murray? Nadal then Djokovic & Davydendko

Interesting to see that despite Federer doesn't have a good H2H record against Nadal, he is the guy that beat Nadal more times in the tour.

MalwareDie
03-01-2009, 07:44 PM
Interesting to see that despite Federer doesn't have a good H2H record against Nadal, he is the guy that beat Nadal more times in the tour.

That is irrelevant because he has met up against Mugboar mroe than any other player.

pogotheorist
04-24-2009, 02:45 AM
Hope you'll maintain this, mgorganchian... maybe top 75 is too many?

I've linked it on my Gems of MTF (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=8478344&postcount=1) list.

Clydey
04-24-2009, 03:21 AM
What an ingenious comparison :o Lots of similarities between the two, both with regard to play style and variety and general success versus the top players. Berdych can play Federer, Tsonga certainly shouldn't do any worse, how's that for a comparison.

I don't recall saying that there were any similarities. Congratulations on continually missing the point.

Roddick and Del Potro don't play similar games, yet they both matchup horribly against Federer. See the difference between what you thought I meant and what I actually meant? Both Del Potro and Tsonga do not matchup well against Federer. They do not have to play similarly for that to be the case.

You're a blonde, right? Just a wild guess.

heya
04-24-2009, 06:05 PM
Come back with a clue. Did Del Potro save 3 match points, advice in rain delays, and depend on lucky net and line bounces to beat Roddick? At least he needed Roddick's bad coaches, injury and awful pathetic physical stiffness, just as Federer did.

oranges
04-24-2009, 06:17 PM
You're a blonde, right? Just a wild guess.

You're 7, right? Can't be well over 20 and use that as a touche. As far as logic is concerned, you've made a comparison between the two whether you like it or not. You have zero arguments either way.
You have an inflatable doll?

Clydey
04-24-2009, 07:46 PM
You're 7, right? Can't be well over 20 and use that as a touche. As far as logic is concerned, you've made a comparison between the two whether you like it or not. You have zero arguments either way.
You have an inflatable doll?

No, I didn't make a comparison between the two. I also think Federer will consistently beat Juan Monaco and Taylor Dent. That doesn't mean I'm comparing those players. You just say stupid shit constantly and hope that people won't pick up on it, don't you?

Why do I bother engaging you anyway? You're the genius who thinks Ancic should be in the top 4.

oranges
04-24-2009, 08:11 PM
Why do I bother engaging you anyway?

I don't know, you like looking stupid

mgorganchian
08-16-2009, 06:51 AM
After a long time, today I updated the H2H stats.

Comparing the last h2h stats with this one, I can see that Del Potro is the one that had improved more against top 4, last year he had no way to win against them and this year he has 3 victories against top 4.

Any comments?

*bunny*
08-16-2009, 07:11 AM
Isn't the first line should read Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray?
Or you should move around the figures in the order you have now: Federer, Nadal, Murray and Djokovic. At the moment it reads like Federer is 7-13 against himself.

Good job though. :yeah:

mgorganchian
08-16-2009, 07:22 AM
Isn't the first line should read Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray?
Or you should move around the figures in the order you have now: Federer, Nadal, Murray and Djokovic. At the moment it reads like Federer is 7-13 against himself.

Good job though. :yeah:

You are rigth, last time I did this comparisson Nadal wasn #1. I did the calculations, changed the name of the players and missed to reallocate the figures...
Now it should be correctly updated.

GlennMirnyi
08-16-2009, 07:42 AM
Shows how much of a clown Del Pony is.

HattonWBA
08-16-2009, 08:20 AM
Great post. Thanks

scarecrows
08-16-2009, 08:23 AM
Shows how much of a clown Del Pony is.

his record is still 1% better than Stepanek, lawl

GlennMirnyi
08-16-2009, 08:39 AM
his record is still 1% better than Stepanek, lawl

Stepanek is a top 10, sure.

:rolleyes:

At least he doesn't cry like a pussy when he can't win.

:sobbing::baby: daddy, he beat me. :sobbing::baby:

leng jai
08-16-2009, 09:38 AM
Vamos Lu.

Ouragan
08-16-2009, 11:50 AM
Somehow Top 4 now doesn't have the same meaning as last year or even just 6 months ago...Djokovic is clearly behind now, so a win against him ain't as prestigious as it used to be. Hope he regains his composure and wins a slam again soon, this dude is important to the game.

tennishero
08-16-2009, 01:01 PM
Shows how much of a clown Del Pony is.

u sound like a broken record.


Stepanek is a top 10, sure.

:rolleyes:

At least he doesn't cry like a pussy when he can't win.

:sobbing::baby: daddy, he beat me. :sobbing::baby:


stepanek top 10... funny. he's like a poor man's murray at best.

stebs
08-16-2009, 01:58 PM
Somehow Top 4 now doesn't have the same meaning as last year or even just 6 months ago...Djokovic is clearly behind now, so a win against him ain't as prestigious as it used to be. Hope he regains his composure and wins a slam again soon, this dude is important to the game.

Appeared for a while like we were going to have a top 4 really dominating the rest but Nadal got injured, Djokovic fell off a little, Federer is vulnerable outside the slams, Murray is vulnerable in them and a few other players have the game to beat these top guys. In the end you can't really be sure of the results the top guys will have right now because a lot of them are capable of beating each other.

mgorganchian
08-16-2009, 03:22 PM
Appeared for a while like we were going to have a top 4 really dominating the rest but Nadal got injured, Djokovic fell off a little, Federer is vulnerable outside the slams, Murray is vulnerable in them and a few other players have the game to beat these top guys. In the end you can't really be sure of the results the top guys will have right now because a lot of them are capable of beating each other.

I totally agree, at the beginning of the year we had a strong dominance of top 4 but now, 7 months later, we have at least Roddick or DelPo with an opportunity to reach ranking #4. Something that is important to see is that Roddick will be number #4 on the race which at this stage of the year self explains how even top 6 are now...

On the other hand both Del Potro and Roddick have strong difficulties to win against Federer... I would also like to see a Djokovic and Del Potro encounter in HC and in Clay soon as DelPo had never won against Djokovic.

rubbERR
08-16-2009, 03:28 PM
enough...getting discusting to see this kind of fanboy battles :lol:

zlaja777
08-16-2009, 10:38 PM
Cilic = a mug!

mgorganchian
08-17-2009, 04:15 AM
I updated the stats after Montreal Final where Murray def Del Potro.

Henry Chinaski
08-17-2009, 04:46 AM
this hernych is good

mgorganchian
08-17-2009, 05:00 AM
Not as stats shows... :)

He is 30 years old and his victories are old ones:

2005 Barcelona Spain in Clay against a young Murray and
2006 's-Hertogenbosch The Netherlands in Grass against Djokovic.

freeandlonely
08-17-2009, 05:22 AM
Nadal is ridiculous, 72%. I don't like him but this shows how tough he is when he faces Federer, Murray, and Djokovic so far.


Then...it's Nalby at 50%...hope he come back healthy and strong...

mgorganchian
08-17-2009, 05:29 AM
Yes, Nadal is "the strongest" when he has to confront the rest of the top 4 and he is also almost as consistent as Federer with the rest of the 75...

Nalbandian is only strong when confronting top 4 but he is not consistent with lower ranked players...
IMO if he is in shape he can beat anyone and he is as tough as any of the top 4 and in any surface but it only depends on his mood to do training...

GlennMirnyi
08-17-2009, 06:29 AM
u sound like a broken record.





stepanek top 10... funny. he's like a poor man's murray at best.

:lol:

Stepanek made it to the top 10, mate.

I guess you started watching tennis last year... :lol:

Stepanek has NOTHING TO DO WITH MURRAY game-wise.

abraxas21
08-17-2009, 08:16 AM
Tsonga won't beat Federer any time soon. Federer is just a bad matchup for Tsonga, like he is for Del Potro.

sounds strange now...

this is a great thread btw.

lessthanjake
08-17-2009, 08:51 AM
Nadal is a god against the other top 4. He has at least pidgeoned all of them. I suspect that his record against Murray will get more even as time goes on though.

mgorganchian
08-18-2009, 01:45 AM
Do you think it will be usefull to have this stats as sticky?
I can try to update it in a weekly basis if time permits...

rocketassist
08-18-2009, 01:53 AM
Nadal is a god against the other top 4. He has at least pidgeoned all of them. I suspect that his record against Murray will get more even as time goes on though.

The more hardcourt matches they play yes.

rocketassist
08-18-2009, 01:57 AM
Andreas Beck has played a top four- Nadal at Wimbledon 08.

Interesting to note Roddick, Tsonga, Simon, Gonzalez, Nalbandian and Ljubicic as the only six guys to have beaten them all.

rubbERR
08-18-2009, 02:19 AM
that list includes potro's 2007 losses against top 4 when he was wta server and not even half player he is now. :lol: and one loss against murray was retirement so murray actually leads 3-1.

(3 of his losses against Nadal we're 2007, 1 against Djokovic, 2 against Federer in 2007)

and all in all that list should be fixed, most of players get their wins over current top 4 players when they we're not even playing like theyre now.

mgorganchian
08-18-2009, 02:47 AM
rubbERR, this are objective stats and not more than that.

I agree with you that 2009 H2H should be more important than 2008, 2007, etc, specially for young guys that are evolving... I am not against Del Potro or any other player...

You can pick anyone in the list and you will find the same kind of things. For example Hernych won long time ago as I pointed before...

Another example:
Blake won in 2006 against Murray...
He also won twice in 2006 and 1 in 2005 against Nadal in HC and then he lost twice in 2008...

Anyway, this stats are an useful tool but only a starting point and should be combined with deeper analysis before having any conclusion...

mgorganchian
08-18-2009, 10:26 PM
Something I mised to mention is that this stats are taken from the atpworldtour site.
The stats are including retires in the H2H count due that atp stite is adding them as well.

Regards,
Matias

decrepitude
08-18-2009, 11:57 PM
. . . one loss against murray was retirement so murray actually leads 3-1.


Retirements ARE counted in H2H. It is only walkovers that are not counted. It is 4-1, check the ATP site.

mgorganchian
08-24-2009, 02:31 PM
I updated the stats once again. Now we have Cincinatti H2H in it.

Some highligths:

Federer has improved his H2H from 16W/23L to 18W/23L with 43.9% almost reaching Murray 44.0% performance.
Djokovic has also improved his % from 12/24 to 13/25.

Murray went down from 11/13 to 11/14
Nadal went down from 34/13 to 34/14

Acasusso has one lost more and now he is 0-8.

stebs
08-24-2009, 06:02 PM
Nadal is a beast in big matches and he beat Federer and Djokovic so many times on clay. No matter who you are, to beat Nadal consistently on any surface is just incredibly tough, he is always going to be hard to beat when fit.

mandeep
08-24-2009, 06:12 PM
Nadal is a beast in big matches and he beat Federer and Djokovic so many times on clay. No matter who you are, to beat Nadal consistently on any surface is just incredibly tough, he is always going to be hard to beat when fit.

Agreed. He just plays really tough and gives nothing away.

mgorganchian
09-15-2009, 09:02 PM
Updated after US Open Final

Del Potro is continuing improving his %.

Cilic now has 1 win over top 4.

kai.
09-15-2009, 09:36 PM
nice work dude ! :)

oranges
09-15-2009, 09:54 PM
So to summarize, Delpo not only gets his wins, but wins a GS final against one, Cilic stomps Murray and Tsonga tells Clydey care to define "not any time soon", a couple months seems pretty soon to me.

mgorganchian
09-15-2009, 10:11 PM
I added Del Potro to this H2H thread, so now it should be called against top 4.

Del Po is still behind the top 4, obviusly last year he had 0 wins and now he is having a 50% average eficacy against the top 4...



# | Player |Federer| Nadal | Murray|Djokov.|Del Po.| Total |W%
1 |Federer |00 |7-13 |3-6 | 9-4 |6-1 |25-24 |51%
2 |Nadal |13-7 |00 |7-2 | 14-5 |4-3 |38-17 |69%
3 |Murray |6-3 |2-7 |00 | 3-4 |4-1 |15-15 |50%
4 |Djokovic |4-9 |5-14 |4-3 | 00 |30 |16-26 |38%
5 |Del Potro |1-6 |3-4 |1-4 | 0-3 |0-0 |5-17 |23%
6 |Roddick |2-19 |2-5 |3-6 | 4-2 |0-3 |11-35 |24%
7 |Tsonga |1-1 |1-3 |1-2 | 4-2 |0-3 |7-11 |39%
8 |Davydenko |0-12 |2-4 |4-5 | 1-2 |2-1 |9-24 |27%
9 |Verdasco |0-3 |0-9 |1-6 | 2-4 |0-0 |3-22 |12%
10|Simon |2-0 |1-3 |1-3 | 1-3 |1-1 |6-10 |38%
11|Soderling |0-12 |1-3 |1-2 | 0-3 |1-1 |3-21 |13%
12|Gonzalez |1-12 |3-7 |2-1 | 2-1 |3-1 |11-22 |33%
13|Monfils |0-5 |1-5 |1-2 | 0-3 |0-0 |2-15 |12%
14|Nalbandian |8-10 |2-1 |2-0 | 1-2 |3-1 |16-14 |53%
15|Cilic |0-1 |0-0 |1-3 | 0-3 |0-2 |1-9 |10%
16|Robredo |0-9 |0-4 |2-2 | 1-5 |0-2 |3-22 |12%
17|Stepanek |2-8 |0-4 |0-3 | 1-4 |1-0 |4-19 |17%
18|Berdych |1-8 |3-5 |1-1 | 0-2 |1-2 |6-18 |25%
19|Ferrer |0-9 |3-8 |1-1 | 4-4 |2-2 |10-24 |29%
20|Haas |2-10 |0-4 |1-2 | 2-2 |0-1 |5-19 |21%
21|Ferrero |3-9 |2-6 |0-3 | 1-1 |2-1 |8-20 |29%
22|Wawrinka |1-3 |0-4 |3-5 | 2-6 |2-2 |8-20 |29%
23|Kohlschreiber |0-4 |0-4 |0-0 | 1-1 |0-2 |1-11 |8%
24|Blake |1-9 |3-2 |1-1 | 0-1 |1-0 |6-13 |32%
25|Querrey |0-2 |0-3 |0-3 | 0-2 |0-1 |0-11 |0%
26|Hewitt |7-16 |4-5 |0-1 | 1-3 |1-1 |13-26 |33%
27|Mathieu |0-4 |0-9 |0-3 | 1-4 |0-1 |1-21 |5%
28|Hanescu |0-3 |0-3 |0-1 | 0-2 |0-2 |0-11 |0%
29|Sela |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-2 |1-2 |1-5 |17%
30|Almagro |0-5 |0-4 |1-1 | 0-1 |0-0 |1-11 |8%
31|Karlovic |1-9 |0-2 |0-3 | 1-1 |1-0 |3-15 |17%
32|Troicki |0-1 |0-2 |0-3 | 1-1 |0-4 |1-11 |8%
33|Chardy |0-0 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-3 |0-0 |0-4 |0%
34|Lopez |0-7 |1-4 |0-2 | 0-2 |2-2 |3-17 |15%
35|Petzschner |0-0 |0-2 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-3 |0%
36|Benneteau |0-2 |1-1 |0-2 | 1-3 |0-0 |2-8 |20%
37|Monaco |0-1 |1-2 |1-1 | 0-2 |1-1 |3-7 |30%
38|Tursunov |0-3 |0-2 |0-5 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-11 |0%
39|Isner |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-2 |0-3 |0%
40|Melzer |0-0 |0-2 |0-4 | 0-2 |0-5 |0-13 |0%
41|Santoro |2-9 |0-1 |0-2 | 1-1 |0-1 |3-14 |18%
42|Becker |0-1 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-3 |0%
43|Andreev |0-2 |1-4 |0-0 | 0-4 |0-4 |1-14 |7%
44|Beck |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
45|Kunitsyn |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-2 |0-2 |0%
46|Montanes |0-2 |0-2 |0-2 | 0-3 |1-0 |1-9 |10%
47|Ljubicic |3-12 |1-4 |2-3 | 1-4 |1-0 |8-23 |26%
48|Gasquet |1-6 |0-7 |2-1 | 1-2 |1-2 |5-18 |22%
49|Vassallo-Argu |0-0 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-1 |0-3 |0%
50|Zverev |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-1 |0-3 |0%
51|Acasuso |0-5 |0-2 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-8 |0%
52|Youzhny |0-10 |4-7 |0-1 | 2-3 |0-1 |6-22 |21%
53|Fish |1-5 |0-5 |1-3 | 0-3 |2-1 |4-17 |19%
54|Mayer L |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
55|Garcia-Lopez |0-3 |0-2 |0-1 | 0-2 |0-0 |0-8 |0%
56|Daniel |0-1 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-2 |0%
57|Koeller |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |0-1 |0%
58|Tipsarevic |0-2 |0-2 |2-3 | 0-2 |0-1 |2-10 |17%
59|Seppi |0-5 |1-4 |1-2 | 0-6 |0-0 |2-17 |11%
60|Cuevas |0-0 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
61|Safin |2-10 |0-1 |1-0 | 2-0 |0-0 |5-11 |31%
62|Nieminen |0-10 |0-5 |0-2 | 1-2 |0-2 |1-21 |5%
63|Hernych |0-0 |0-1 |1-0 | 1-2 |0-2 |2-5 |29%
64|Bolelli |0-1 |0-1 |0-2 | 0-3 |1-1 |1-8 |11%
65|Bellucci |0-0 |0-1 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |0-2 |0%
66|Zeballos |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
67|Serra |0-0 |0-3 |0-0 | 1-2 |0-0 |1-5 |17%
68|Golubev |0-0 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
69|Gonzalez |0-1 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
70|Gicquel |0-3 |0-0 |0-1 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-5 |0%
71|Luczak |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-1 |0-0 |0-1 |0%
72|Martin |0-0 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-0 |0-0 |0%
73|Minar |0-4 |0-0 |0-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |0-5 |0%
74|Lu |0-1 |0-0 |1-0 | 0-0 |0-1 |1-2 |33%
75|Ginepri |0-5 |0-1 |0-3 | 0-4 |0-1 |0-14 |0%








|65- 323|48- 203|51- 117|59- 140|42- 74 |265- 857|24%
| 17% | 19% | 30% | 30% | 36% | 24% |

mgorganchian
09-15-2009, 10:18 PM
One more comment, we can see how few matches had DelPo played comparing to the rest, obviously due that 3 years ago he was competing with other level of oponents.

superslam77
09-16-2009, 12:12 AM
Stats in the first page are wrong. Nadal and Murray columns.

OldSilentHill
09-16-2009, 01:02 AM
Seems that the column in the 1st page is wrong. Look at Delpo - Nadal (1-4?).

Thanks for the work! ;)



By the way, this confirms that Nalbandian is indeed the error in the Matrix :eek:.
.
.
.
.
.

mgorganchian
09-18-2009, 08:39 AM
I forgot to update it on the first page, now it is updated, please review if there are any errors.

Matias.