ATP Rotterdam 09 - QF -(2) A.Murray def M.Gicquel 7-6 4-6 3-0 ret [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

ATP Rotterdam 09 - QF -(2) A.Murray def M.Gicquel 7-6 4-6 3-0 ret

HattonWBA
02-13-2009, 04:06 PM
Gicquel played some unbelievable tennis, bad luck that he got injured, good entertaining match though, Andy will face Ancic next

Brownie
02-13-2009, 04:08 PM
It's a shame Gicquel had to retire. Definitely an entertaining match!

finishingmove
02-13-2009, 04:08 PM
good serving from gicquel today but the winner was never in doubt

Sapeod
02-13-2009, 04:09 PM
Hard win for Murray. He has to play better against Ancic.

Andi-M
02-13-2009, 04:15 PM
Decent match. Gicquel played v. good esp his serve was very strong.

Murray was passive in 1st and 2nd but v. aggressive in 3rd. Needs to start against Ancic the way he ended today.

decrepitude
02-13-2009, 04:21 PM
Decent match. Gicquel played v. good esp his serve was very strong.

Murray was passive in 1st and 2nd but v. aggressive in 3rd. Needs to start against Ancic the way he ended today.

Exactly. He was just rolling through the first two sets, seemed to lose concentration after Gicquel called the trainer and dropped his serve, but came out fighting in the third.

Bazooka
02-13-2009, 04:22 PM
One wonders where Gicquel has been for the last decade. He was very solid and cool headed, very aware of what there was on both sides of the net and going for the best shots in each scenario. Some brilliant points but more reliability and good defense.

Murray could have lost today.

roberthenman
02-13-2009, 04:26 PM
i do not watch the match, but for level,ranking........ Andy would have earned in 2 set :confused:

Corey Feldman
02-13-2009, 04:28 PM
he should become more aggresive v Mario

Bilbo
02-13-2009, 04:29 PM
lazy display from the guy from dunblane

Smoke944
02-13-2009, 04:33 PM
One wonders where Gicquel has been for the last decade. He was very solid and cool headed, very aware of what there was on both sides of the net and going for the best shots in each scenario. Some brilliant points but more reliability and good defense.

Murray could have lost today.

He's definitely a good player. The thing is though, it seems he didn't commit fully to pro tennis until he was in his mid twenties. Considering that, it is nothing short of amazing what he's done. To break into the top-100 for the first at the age he did is really something. He's done really well for himself.

And good effort Marc.

kiwi10is
02-13-2009, 04:50 PM
what kind of injury was it?

Nathaliia
02-13-2009, 04:51 PM
Murray, lucky one.

rocketassist
02-13-2009, 04:55 PM
Gicquel smokes like a chimney, so no surprise he was the one who would fall short in the fitness battle.

Brownie
02-13-2009, 04:56 PM
what kind of injury was it?

It might have been a groin pull. He had his upper thigh wrapped up.

Snowwy
02-13-2009, 06:11 PM
Gicquel smokes like a chimney, so no surprise he was the one who would fall short in the fitness battle.

Does he really, or is this your typical no clue whats going on statement?

CescAndyKimi
02-13-2009, 06:16 PM
Does he really, or is this your typical no clue whats going on statement?

True. I've heard about it as well. :confused:

Henry Chinaski
02-13-2009, 06:36 PM
He's definitely a good player. The thing is though, it seems he didn't commit fully to pro tennis until he was in his mid twenties. Considering that, it is nothing short of amazing what he's done. To break into the top-100 for the first at the age he did is really something. He's done really well for himself.

And good effort Marc.

The surfaces don't help him either. He likes if fast and low-bouncing. He has an old-school forehand grip that isn't ideally suited to the surfaces we see now for 90% of the season.

Certinfy
02-13-2009, 06:38 PM
:) Murray won.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 07:00 PM
The long-faced miserabilist is back. I think even Scorsese would have lost count of the number of F-bombs Murray dropped during this most excruciating of encounters. Gicquel played quality indoor tennis in a performance that outsrips anything I've seen him do in the past, but Murray was only willing to extend sarcastic compliments to him. The Scot didn't buy Gicquel's injury timeout for a second, and mockingly applauded him when Gicquel won a rally after seeing the trainer. Lahyani came in for the brunt of the complaining when the second set was done, and overall it was like turning back the clock to 2005 when the 17 year old ray of sunshine first burst onto our screens with a unique repertoire of body language. I hope no IMG representatives were eating breakfast or lunch during this one; they would have likely choked with disbelief. Just how does one manage the image of someone so incredibly mean-tempered on court? I look forward to seeing how IMG manages this conundrum in 2009.

The world number 4 can be hard to support at the best of times, but when he's like this it's too much. I switched off at one-set all, so I don't know if Murray was at all contrite towards Gicquel when he had to give up.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 07:21 PM
The long-faced miserabilist is back. I think even Scorsese would have lost count of the number of F-bombs Murray dropped during this most excruciating of encounters. Gicquel played quality indoor tennis in a performance that outsrips anything I've seen him do in the past, but Murray was only willing to extend sarcastic compliments to him. The Scot didn't buy Gicquel's injury timeout for a second, and mockingly applauded him when Gicquel won a rally after seeing the trainer. Lahyani came in for the brunt of the complaining when the second set was done, and overall it was like turning back the clock to 2005 when the 17 year old ray of sunshine first burst onto our screens with a unique repertoire of body language. I hope no IMG representatives were eating breakfast or lunch during this one; they would have likely choked with disbelief. Just how does one manage the image of someone so incredibly mean-tempered on court? I look forward to seeing how IMG manages this conundrum in 2009.

The world number 4 can be hard to support at the best of times, but when he's like this it's too much. I switched off at one-set all, so I don't know if Murray was at all contrite towards Gicquel when he had to give up.

Both he and Gicquel shared a laugh when the match was over. You're imagining things, as I didn't see any of what you mentioned. In fact, he actually covered his mouth the only time he swore. The guys in the studio even picked up on how Murray maintained his composure when he was clearly frustrated. I'm afraid you're imagining things.

Corey Feldman
02-13-2009, 07:26 PM
Hey Clydey mate :wavey:

Clydey
02-13-2009, 07:27 PM
Hey Clydey mate :wavey:

:lol:

Howdy. :wavey:

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 07:44 PM
Both he and Gicquel shared a laugh when the match was over. You're imagining things, as I didn't see any of what you mentioned. In fact, he actually covered his mouth the only time he swore. The guys in the studio even picked up on how Murray maintained his composure when he was clearly frustrated. I'm afraid you're imagining things.

No. I'm usually very good at overlooking his transgressions, but today was too much. I gather you were posting on this forum when Murray screamed "Fuck!!" at the top of his lungs in the second set in full view of the Rotterdam audience, the TV audience, and any officials present who cared to take notice. Did Murray behave impatiently and petulantly when Gicquel took an injury timeout, or did he not? My powers of imagination are stronger than I thought if I didn't see him complain to the umpire during the timeout and after it, as well as suspiciously look at Gicquel when he was treated.

You should apply to do some moonlighting for IMG. They need you.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 07:52 PM
No. I'm usually very good at overlooking his transgressions, but today was too much. I gather you were posting on this forum when Murray screamed "Fuck!!" at the top of his lungs in the second set in full view of the Rotterdam audience, the TV audience, and any officials present who cared to take notice. Did Murray behave impatiently and petulantly when Gicquel took an injury timeout, or did he not? My powers of imagination are stronger than I thought if I didn't see him complain to the umpire during the timeout and after it, as well as suspiciously look at Gicquel when he was treated.

You should apply to do some moonlighting for IMG. They need you.

He didn't complain to the umpire. He was asking for a toilet break during the timeout. He left to go for one after getting permission and the umpire called him back because Gicquel's treatment was only going to take, and I quote, "one minute". He wasn't complaining when he was talking to the umpire. You are just making assumptions. Firstly you assumed wrongly that Murray was complaing to the umpire. Secondly, you are assuming that he was looking at Gicquel "suspiciously". You are interpreting everything the way you want to interpret it. And no, I wasn't posting on here at any time during the match. Had Murray screamed "Fuck" at the top of his voice, he would have received a warning on the spot.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 08:05 PM
He didn't complain to the umpire. He was asking for a toilet break during the timeout. He left to go for one after getting permission and the umpire called him back because Gicquel's treatment was only going to take, and I quote, "one minute". He wasn't complaining when he was talking to the umpire. You are just making assumptions. Firstly you assumed wrongly that Murray was complaing to the umpire. Secondly, you are assuming that he was looking at Gicquel "suspiciously". You are interpreting everything the way you want to interpret it. And no, I wasn't posting on here at any time during the match. Had Murray screamed "Fuck" at the top of his voice, he would have received a warning on the spot.

Well, I was quite surprised when he wasn't warned, but it was Lahyani on the chair and he's been lenient in the past e.g. laughing off Federer swearing in Canada in 2006. Yes, I realise confusion could have arisen out of Murray asking for a toilet break, but he was still less than gracious about Gicquel's timeout. And if Murray laughing when addressing Lahyani at the end of the second set was anything but bitter sarcasm, then he's matured a lot more than I appreciate. I reckon I interpreted his body language throughout this one pretty well, and it didn't reflect well on him. He looked utterly fed up as well as frustrated, and he wasn't exactly feeling the love for the game of tennis today. Even withstanding the stuff about Gicquel and the cursing, this wasn't the grown up Murray 2.0 of late 2008 that we were led to believe would be a mainstay.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 08:17 PM
Well, I was quite surprised when he wasn't warned, but it was Lahyani on the chair and he's been lenient in the past e.g. laughing off Federer swearing in Canada in 2006. Yes, I realise confusion could have arisen out of Murray asking for a toilet break, but he was still less than gracious about Gicquel's timeout. And if Murray laughing when addressing Lahyani at the end of the second set was anything but bitter sarcasm, then he's matured a lot more than I appreciate. I reckon I interpreted his body language throughout this one pretty well, and it didn't reflect well on him. He looked utterly fed up as well as frustrated, and he wasn't exactly feeling the love for the game of tennis today. Even withstanding the stuff about Gicquel and the cursing, this wasn't the grown up Murray 2.0 of late 2008 that we were led to believe would be a mainstay.

There was no confusion. You are suggesting that Murray was "less than gracious" about Gicquel's timeout, but there's no basis for what you are saying. Everything goes against what you are saying. I have explained the nature of his conversation with the umpire during the timeout. Not only that, but you appear to be the only one who has noticed all of these separate incidents. Add to that the guys in the studio commending Murray for maintaining his composure and the fact that Murray received no warning, despite your claims that he screamed "Fuck!" at the top of his lungs, and it's pretty clear that you are wrong on this one.

If you're looking for him to be all smiles on court and to hide his frustration all of the time, you're going to be sorely disappointed. I wouldn't want that anyway. He is a fiery character and that's part of his appeal. When he acts like he did against Davydenko in Dubai, that's when there is a problem.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 08:31 PM
There was no confusion. You are suggesting that Murray was "less than gracious" about Gicquel's timeout, but there's no basis for what you are saying. Everything goes against what you are saying. I have explained the nature of his conversation with the umpire during the timeout. Not only that, but you appear to be the only one who has noticed all of these separate incidents. Add to that the guys in the studio commending Murray for maintaining his composure and the fact that Murray received no warning, despite your claims that he screamed "Fuck!" at the top of his lungs, and it's pretty clear that you are wrong on this one.

If you're looking for him to be all smiles on court and to hide his frustration all of the time, you're going to be sorely disappointed. I wouldn't want that anyway. He is a fiery character and that's part of his appeal. When he acts like he did against Davydenko in Dubai, that's when there is a problem.

I am reminded of Rusedski's campaign at the 2001 USO to have a $5,000 fine rescinded. He claimed that he screamed "Fudge!" instead of the choice bit of Anglo Saxon he was accused of shouting. Perhaps today, when a fully rounded and unmistakeable "F" formed in Murray raging mouth, he proceeded to exclaim "Fudge!" instead of what I thought I heard. For the sake of his emotional development, it would have been an advance, but after years of seeing Murray swear in person (were I and the officials imagining the c-word directed at the umpire in the Davis Cup in 2006, a tie I attended and which almost got Murray banned from the competition?) I tend to assume the worst. And as for the Sky "experts" applauding Murray's composure, if they think that that sort of attitude cuts it against the best players, then it explains a lot about Barry Cowan's career, or lack of one.

I remain unimpressed by how Murray conducted himself when Gicquel sought the trainer, and if you think Murray was being genuinely cheerful when laughing with Lahyani after dropping a set 6-4 then we should hand him the Edberg sportsmanship award right away. He really is seeing the bright side of life if he can behave in that frustrated, ill-tempered manner one minute and then switch on a beaming smile with the ump after seeing the match turn against him. Murray 2.0 indeed.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 08:34 PM
I am reminded of Rusedski's campaign at the 2001 USO to have a $5,000 fine rescinded. He claimed that he screamed "Fudge!" instead of the choice bit of Anglo Saxon he was accused of shouting. Perhaps today, when a fully rounded and unmistakeable "F" formed in Murray raging mouth, he proceeded to exclaim "Fudge!" instead of what I thought I heard. For the sake of his emotional development, it would have been an advance, but after years of seeing Murray swear in person (were I and the officials imagining the c-word directed at the umpire in the Davis Cup in 2006, a tie I attended and which almost got Murray banned from the competition?) I tend to assume the worst. And as for the Sky "experts" applauding Murray's composure, if they think that that sort of attitude cuts it against the best players, then it explains a lot about Barry Cowan's career, or lack of one.

I remain unimpressed by how Murray conducted himself when Gicquel sought the trainer, and if you think Murray was being genuinely cheerful when laughing with Lahyani after dropping a set 6-4 then we should hand him the Edberg sportsmanship award right away. He really is seeing the bright side of life if he can behave in that frustrated, ill-tempered manner one minute and then switch on a beaming smile with the ump after seeing the match turn against him. Murray 2.0 indeed.

Like I said, you're the only one who noticed all of this. You must be remarkably perceptive, what with everyone else missing these incidents (including the umpire). :lol:

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 08:49 PM
Like I said, you're the only one who noticed all of this. You must be remarkably perceptive, what with everyone else missing these incidents (including the umpire). :lol:

In that case, I can only hope my powers of perception fail me when I attend Queens and the Tennis Masters Cup later in the year. Murray's temperamental behaviour and frequent expletives can really get a tennis fan down of a summer afternoon. :sad:

Clydey
02-13-2009, 08:58 PM
In that case, I can only hope my powers of perception fail me when I attend Queens and the Tennis Masters Cup later in the year. Murray's temperamental behaviour and frequent expletives can really get a tennis fan down of a summer afternoon. :sad:

I assume you're an adult. Even if he reverts to his previous behaviour, I don't see why people get offended. It's only words. I'm sure you can handle it.

jazar
02-13-2009, 09:00 PM
its a shame injury robbed gicquel of what would inevitably have been a victory

Corey Feldman
02-13-2009, 09:03 PM
its a shame injury robbed gicquel of what would inevitably have been a victorygutted the tartan twat lives on eh

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 09:03 PM
I assume you're an adult. Even if he reverts to his previous behaviour, I don't see why people get offended. It's only words. I'm sure you can handle it.

I'm sure you'd like to revert to name-calling, but let's try to keep this civil. I'd be one of the last people to be offended by swearing from a tennis player, my problem lies with how it fits into the rulebook and, moreover, the unappealing on-court demanour that so often accompanies it.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 09:11 PM
I'm sure you'd like to revert to name-calling, but let's try to keep this civil. I'd be one of the last people to be offended by swearing from a tennis player, my problem lies with how it fits into the rulebook and, moreover, the unappealing on-court demanour that so often accompanies it.

I don't want to revert to name-calling. In fact, I wasn't trying to insult you at all, so please don't misrepresent what I'm saying. I genuinely don't get why people get so worked up over a few choice words. I don't care if a player shouts "Fuck". It's not going to scar anyone. On the contrary, it shows that the player gives a shit. Particularly in smaller tournaments, it reassures me that players are going all out to win, rather than putting in a half-hearted performance.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 09:22 PM
I don't want to revert to name-calling. In fact, I wasn't trying to insult you at all, so please don't misrepresent what I'm saying. I genuinely don't get why people get so worked up over a few choice words. I don't care if a player shouts "Fuck". It's not going to scar anyone. On the contrary, it shows that the player gives a shit. Particularly in smaller tournaments, it reassures me that players are going all out to win, rather than putting in a half-hearted performance.

If I was to condemn someone entirely on the basis of their swearing, it would be a case of the kettle calling the pot black. There is just something uniquely discouraging about the way Murray lets his lapses in play get to him, and when he carries himself in a completely fed-up manner as per today a torrent of invective never seems far away. It doesn't seem to help him in matches like these, and whilst passion is good I really thought he'd found a better equilibrium at the end of 2008, and I worry that he was reverting to type against Gicquel. I would go so far as to say he doesn't even want to be playing in Rotterdam, be it because he's still recovering from illness or just can't muster the enthusiasm for a small event, but it doesn't look good when you look at Nadal's effort so far, which has been exemplary so far in comparison.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 09:28 PM
If I was to condemn someone entirely on the basis of their swearing, it would be a case of the kettle calling the pot black. There is just something uniquely discouraging about the way Murray lets his lapses in play get to him, and when he carries himself in a completely fed-up manner as per today a torrent of invective never seems far away. It doesn't seem to help him in matches like these, and whilst passion is good I really thought he'd found a better equilibrium at the end of 2008, and I worry that he was reverting to type against Gicquel. I would go so far as to say he doesn't even want to be playing in Rotterdam, be it because he's still recovering from illness or just can't muster the enthusiasm for a small event, but it doesn't look good when you look at Nadal's effort so far, which has been exemplary so far in comparison.

I think Murray's behaviour clearly demonstrates that he wants to be in Rotterdam. If he didn't care, he wouldn't get frustrated.

jazar
02-13-2009, 09:32 PM
gutted the tartan twat lives on eh

no, just feeling bad for gicquel

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 09:37 PM
I think Murray's behaviour clearly demonstrates that he wants to be in Rotterdam. If he didn't care, he wouldn't get frustrated.

At this rate I doubt he'll get past Ancic, but if he makes the final I hope he exhibits the same kind of self-possession he showed against Simon and Djokovic in the TMS finals. That's all I'd ask for.

LinkMage
02-13-2009, 09:37 PM
I see Clydey is back in full force. ;)

decrepitude
02-13-2009, 09:38 PM
Baselinesmash, do us all a favour. Don't watch Murray matches then we will all be happy.

Watch Murray's post match interview. He is very complimentary about Gicquel.

And by the way he hasn't signed up with IMG so you are wrong on that issue too. He has signed up with Simon Fuller - I can't remember the name of the firm but it isn't IMG.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 09:44 PM
Baselinesmash, do us all a favour. Don't watch Murray matches then we will all be happy.

Watch Murray's post match interview. He is very complimentary about Gicquel.

And by the way he hasn't signed up with IMG so you are wrong on that issue too. He has signed up with Simon Fuller - I can't remember the name of the firm but it isn't IMG.

19 Entertainment.

decrepitude
02-13-2009, 09:48 PM
That's the one.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 09:59 PM
Baselinesmash, do us all a favour. Don't watch Murray matches then we will all be happy.

Watch Murray's post match interview. He is very complimentary about Gicquel.

And by the way he hasn't signed up with IMG so you are wrong on that issue too. He has signed up with Simon Fuller - I can't remember the name of the firm but it isn't IMG.

Sorry, I was talking about the match, not some context in which Murray can be seen in the best possible light. He himself has been critical of his on-court personality. In an interview in the lead-up to the BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award, he conceded that even he wouldn't fancy watching himself much during a match, what with his conduct on courts around the world hardly having been the most inspiring sight at the uppermost reaches of the ATP.

I can only imagine what these boards would be like if we all ignored Murray's less-than-model persona between the lines. There's an Andy Murray forum here and an official one elsewhere if you want to enjoy an alternative universe in which the Scot is the shining light of this great game. I appreciate that some supporters like to take a very select approach to their fandom.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 10:10 PM
Sorry, I was talking about the match, not some context in which Murray can be seen in the best possible light. He himself has been critical of his on-court personality. In an interview in the lead-up to the BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award, he conceded that even he wouldn't fancy watching himself much during a match, what with his conduct on courts around the world hardly having been the most inspiring sight at the uppermost reaches of the ATP.

I can only imagine what these boards would be like if we all ignored Murray's less-than-model persona between the lines. There's an Andy Murray forum here and an official one elsewhere if you want to enjoy an alternative universe in which the Scot is the shining light of this great game. I appreciate that some supporters like to take a very select approach to their fandom.

The fact that someone disagrees with you does not mean that they lack objectivity.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 10:24 PM
The fact that someone disagrees with you does not mean that they lack objectivity.

I could just as readily say that interpreting things "as you want to see it" is pretty crucial to forming opinions. We could go on about objectivity and subjectivity all night, but this is a tennis forum, not an etymological or philosophical one. The poster I was responding to was suggesting that I keep my comments about Murray to myself, so that they could sustain their own subjective view of the player. Disagreement is the spice of this forum, very often to its detriment, but it can sometimes result in reasoned debate where exchange of opinions is far more important than reaching agreement. To suggest that another poster keep their opinions to themself, which was the implication of the post I was respinding to, would seem to defeat the point of participating in a forum.

L James
02-13-2009, 10:34 PM
All luck, this Murray

Clydey
02-13-2009, 10:38 PM
I could just as readily say that interpreting things "as you want to see it" is pretty crucial to forming opinions. We could go on about objectivity and subjectivity all night, but this is a tennis forum, not an etymological or philosophical one. The poster I was responding to was suggesting that I keep my comments about Murray to myself, so that they could sustain their own subjective view of the player. Disagreement is the spice of this forum, very often to its detriment, but it can sometimes result in reasoned debate where exchange of opinions is far more important than reaching agreement. To suggest that another poster keep their opinions to themself, which was the implication of the post I was respinding to, would seem to defeat the point of participating in a forum.

There's an Andy Murray forum here and an official one elsewhere if you want to enjoy an alternative universe in which the Scot is the shining light of this great game. I appreciate that some supporters like to take a very select approach to their fandom.

"Supporters" is plural. And since I'm the only other Murray supporter arguing with you, I assumed you were suggesting that I wasn't being objective.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 10:50 PM
"Supporters" is plural. And since I'm the only other Murray supporter arguing with you, I assumed you were suggesting that I wasn't being objective.

I didn't think you were defending yourself, I thought you were responding to what I was saying to the other poster. I used the plural because I was referring to a trend in some fans to harbour an adulterated view of their faves, which is certainly observable in these parts on occasion.

As for Barry Cowan, seems I underestimated him. During the lengthy interval between sets in the Monfils-Benneteau match, he referred back to Murray-Gicquel today, saying "Murray thought that it was a little bit of gamesmanship, but turned out to be wrong..." Are you sure everyone in the Sky studio was so unequivocal about Murray's spotless performance today?

decrepitude
02-13-2009, 10:50 PM
BaselineSmash, I consider I am pretty objective about Andy Murray. I have criticised his bad behaviour in the past. Your posts struck me as being far from objective, as though you were determined to dislike his behaviour even there was not much wrong with it. You were totally wrong about the situation with the umpire during Gicquel's time with the trainer, I distinctly heard Andy asking to go for a bathroom break and was in fact on his way when the umpire called him back because there would not have been time.

I never argue when people criticise him if I think it is warranted, I did not think your remarks were warranted on this occasion. I merely suggested that if you hate watching him so much, it would be better if you didn't watch. That's what I do with players I dislike.

BaselineSmash
02-13-2009, 10:59 PM
BaselineSmash, I consider I am pretty objective about Andy Murray. I have criticised his bad behaviour in the past. Your posts struck me as being far from objective, as though you were determined to dislike his behaviour even there was not much wrong with it. You were totally wrong about the situation with the umpire during Gicquel's time with the trainer, I distinctly heard Andy asking to go for a bathroom break and was in fact on his way when the umpire called him back because there would not have been time.

I never argue when people criticise him if I think it is warranted, I did not think your remarks were warranted on this occasion. I merely suggested that if you hate watching him so much, it would be better if you didn't watch. That's what I do with players I dislike.

Well, if you or Clydey happened to be watching the Monfils-Benneteau now, you'd have heard Cowan's take on the incident, which corresponds with my own: Murray suspected gamesmanship, and was wrong in the end. It's a bit unfair to say that not only was I wrong about what happened, but also to claim that no one else holds my view. If you have Skyplus, rewind half an hour to the interval between sets in the Rotterdam match presently playing. Have a listen to the studio comments playing over the court, and tell me if I am the only one who read the incident in that way.

I also view myself as an objective fan, and just happen to feel that Murray should be pulled up in this case, as you have in previous matches.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 11:18 PM
I didn't think you were defending yourself, I thought you were responding to what I was saying to the other poster. I used the plural because I was referring to a trend in some fans to harbour an adulterated view of their faves, which is certainly observable in these parts on occasion.

As for Barry Cowan, seems I underestimated him. During the lengthy interval between sets in the Monfils-Benneteau match, he referred back to Murray-Gicquel today, saying "Murray thought that it was a little bit of gamesmanship, but turned out to be wrong..." Are you sure everyone in the Sky studio was so unequivocal about Murray's spotless performance today?

He did think it was gamesmanship, but he didn't make a big show about it. He looked across the net with a wry smile when Gicquel was chasing down ball after ball on one particular point. He didn't exactly throw a tantrum.

I don't recall saying anything about how the studio reacted to Murray's thoughts on Gicquel's injury (in fact they didn't even mention it at the time). I said that they commended Murray on how he kept his composure. In other words, how he stopped his frustration from boiling over.

Clydey
02-13-2009, 11:21 PM
Well, if you or Clydey happened to be watching the Monfils-Benneteau now, you'd have heard Cowan's take on the incident, which corresponds with my own: Murray suspected gamesmanship, and was wrong in the end. It's a bit unfair to say that not only was I wrong about what happened, but also to claim that no one else holds my view. If you have Skyplus, rewind half an hour to the interval between sets in the Rotterdam match presently playing. Have a listen to the studio comments playing over the court, and tell me if I am the only one who read the incident in that way.

I also view myself as an objective fan, and just happen to feel that Murray should be pulled up in this case, as you have in previous matches.

Barry Cowan made no reference to the change of ends. He made a general statement about Murray's feelings about the injury, which he would have picked up on when Murray clearly showed his skepticism after a particular point.

habibko
02-14-2009, 02:07 AM
nice to see two scots arguing about a scot.

Snowwy
02-15-2009, 01:51 AM
nice to see two scots arguing about a scot.

At least they support their country, and don't just fanboi the 'best' player