Johannesburg QF: Ferrer def Baghdatis (7-5, 6-2) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Johannesburg QF: Ferrer def Baghdatis (7-5, 6-2)

jonathancrane
02-06-2009, 04:06 PM
Vamos Ferru
What a fighter you are :yeah:

Erica86
02-06-2009, 04:09 PM
Well done David!
Anybody who saw the match can tell us what it was like? Thanks in advance.

iSzavay.
02-06-2009, 04:13 PM
Nooooooooo :mad::sad:

SwiSha
02-06-2009, 04:45 PM
:yeah: well done Ferru

madmanfool
02-06-2009, 05:16 PM
Well done David!
Anybody who saw the match can tell us what it was like? Thanks in advance.

Not much to say. It wasn't a very good match. Baghdatis served unbelievable in his early service games, but Ferrer held easily as well. At the end of the set Baghdatis was missing some serves (some double faults as well) and Ferrer got a break point which was also a setpoint. Very long rally, as both players were afraid to miss, but Baghdatis missed the forehand. No surprise there as Baghdatis missed tons of forehands in the match. More of the same in the second. Some bad errors from Baghdatis, while Ferrer was getting into his rhythm. The early break was there and a frustrated Baghdatis trew his racket. Ferrer broke again in the last game to take the match.

finishingmove
02-06-2009, 05:16 PM
david pics ferrer

HattonWBA
02-06-2009, 05:41 PM
the first set was played at such an high level, great set and when ferrer won that the result was inevitable, glimpses of the old David Ferrer today

petar_pan
02-06-2009, 05:47 PM
i am sad about bagdatis,but ferrer also played well against cilic on ao but cilic was too good and took that in 3.

Deivid23
02-06-2009, 06:07 PM
the first set was played at such an high level, great set and when ferrer won that the result was inevitable, glimpses of the old David Ferrer today

We definetely saw a different match

Deivid23
02-06-2009, 06:08 PM
Too tough for a rusty Marcos to defeat Ferrer in these weird conditions in Joburg.

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 06:09 PM
ferrer to win the title imo

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 06:10 PM
Too tough for a rusty Marcos to defeat Ferrer in these weird conditions in Joburg.

why weird conditions? sun was shining. perfect for ferrer.

Erica86
02-06-2009, 06:11 PM
Not much to say. It wasn't a very good match. Baghdatis served unbelievable in his early service games, but Ferrer held easily as well. At the end of the set Baghdatis was missing some serves (some double faults as well) and Ferrer got a break point which was also a setpoint. Very long rally, as both players were afraid to miss, but Baghdatis missed the forehand. No surprise there as Baghdatis missed tons of forehands in the match. More of the same in the second. Some bad errors from Baghdatis, while Ferrer was getting into his rhythm. The early break was there and a frustrated Baghdatis trew his racket. Ferrer broke again in the last game to take the match.

Thaks a lot.It seems Baghdatis is not progressing as many of us thought he would.

Deivid23
02-06-2009, 06:12 PM
why weird conditions? sun was shining. perfect for ferrer.

I don´t think players are used to play in a place where the balls fly so fast through the thinner air due to Joburg´s altitude, this match was a clear example of it

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 06:24 PM
I don´t think players are used to play in a place where the balls fly so fast through the thinner air due to Joburg´s altitude, this match was a clear example of it

depends on the gravity. the altitude alone isn't enough to make a conclusion. i know this as i had quite a few studies and measurements about gravity using gravimeters.

Deivid23
02-06-2009, 06:27 PM
depends on the gravity. the altitude alone isn't enough to make a conclusion. i know this as i had quite a few studies and measurements about gravity using gravimeters.

You just have to watch some matches in Joburg to make that conclusion ;)

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 06:33 PM
You just have to watch some matches in Joburg to make that conclusion ;)

yeah, but you can definately calculate it in more detail and compare it to other regions.

Deivid23
02-06-2009, 06:36 PM
yeah, but you can definately calculate it in more detail and compare it to other regions.

Considering surface + altitude, I don´t think there´s anyone like Joburg in ATP tour atm, but I´d be very interested if you find one

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 06:47 PM
Considering surface + altitude, I don´t think there´s anyone like Joburg in ATP tour atm, but I´d be very interested if you find one

need to find a detailed world map of gravity data which is very hard to find. but imo there's no other tournament who can challenge Joburg.

a tennis event in Vostok (South Pole) would be interesting :lol: :eek:

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 06:50 PM
Considering surface + altitude, I don´t think there´s anyone like Joburg in ATP tour atm, but I´d be very interested if you find one

There are some clay tournaments at reasonably high altitude on clay in Austria -- Poertschach (until last year) and Kitzbuehel. The altitude did seem to be a factor, for example big servers did better there.

In the challenger circuit there are quite a few tournaments a high altitude. For example there are a number on clay in the Andes in South America, with altitude up to 3000m like Bogota. Certain players play well in those conditions because the ball flies. Chris Guccione (who is shit on clay) won two clay challengers of this type at high altitude in 2006 in good fields.

Deivid23
02-06-2009, 06:56 PM
There are some clay tournaments at reasonably high altitude on clay in Austria -- Poertschach (until last year) and Kitzbuehel. The altitude did seem to be a factor, for example big servers did better there.

In the challenger circuit there are quite a few tournaments a high altitude. For example there are a number on clay in the Andes in South America, with altitude up to 3000m like Bogota. Certain players play well in those conditions because the ball flies. Chris Guccione (who is shit on clay) won two clay challengers of this type at high altitude in 2006 in good fields.


Almost 2000m of altitude + fast hard court looks unparalelled to me in ATP circuit, at least away from challenger level

Julio
02-06-2009, 07:01 PM
Vamos David !!! :bounce:

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 07:03 PM
I was wrong about Joburg. I checked it and it seems Kitzbuehel has a higher gravity even though it's altitude is only about 750m. Reason see below.

The altitude did seem to be a factor, for example big servers did better there.

that's a rumour on MTF since quite a few years. the altitude alone would lower the gravity (-0.3086 mGal per meter). the reason can be found in the influence of the nearby rock masses and it's density. the reason why Kitzbuehel has a higher gravity than Johannesburg despite having a much lower altitude is due to the influence of the alps and it's massive rocks.

Kitzbuehel > Poertschach > Johannesburg

Deivid23
02-06-2009, 07:08 PM
I was wrong about Joburg. I checked it and it seems Kitzbuehel has a higher gravity even though it's altitude is only about 750m. Reason see below.



that's a rumour on MTF since quite a few years. the altitude alone would lower the gravity (-0.3086 mGal per meter). the reason can be found in the influence of the nearby rock masses and it's density. the reason why Kitzbuehel has a higher gravity than Johannesburg despite having a much lower altitude is due to the influence of the alps and it's massive rocks.

Kitzbuehel > Poertschach > Johannesburg

You´re surely right, but I´ve never had these feelings I´ve had in Joburg during this week in Kitzi. Must be the surface as well.

Anyway I´ll take a closer look at this next week and will try to find out more

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 07:12 PM
You´re surely right, but I´ve never had these feelings I´ve had in Joburg during this week in Kitzi. Must be the surface as well.

due to the surface but as long as the ball is in the air it's not the same.

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 07:17 PM
It is fairly logical why there so few hardcourt tournaments at high altitude, the conditions become very fast, if it is clay it is still "managable" for the players.

Baghdatis#1
02-06-2009, 07:17 PM
marcos :hug:

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 07:32 PM
if it is clay it is still "managable" for the players.

not in the Andes ;)

Jillian
02-06-2009, 07:32 PM
Vamossssssssss Ferru :smooch: :smooch: :smooch:

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 07:37 PM
I was wrong about Joburg. I checked it and it seems Kitzbuehel has a higher gravity even though it's altitude is only about 750m. Reason see below.

that's a rumour on MTF since quite a few years. the altitude alone would lower the gravity (-0.3086 mGal per meter). the reason can be found in the influence of the nearby rock masses and it's density. the reason why Kitzbuehel has a higher gravity than Johannesburg despite having a much lower altitude is due to the influence of the alps and it's massive rocks.

Kitzbuehel > Poertschach > Johannesburg

I don't quite follow you.

I think the following statements are true:

- Gravity is slightly less at higher altitude but the differences are too small to be of real significance to a tennis match.
- The density of the air drops dramatically as the altitude increases. This is the critical factor for how fast a tennis ball moves.

Maybe there are some differences between tropical latitudes vs. higher latitudes with respect to air density at the same altitude. Of course temperature and weather also influences this significantly.

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 07:42 PM
- Gravity is slightly less at higher altitude but the differences are too small to be of real significance to a tennis match.

if there would be nothing but air it would be true.


- The density of the air drops dramatically as the altitude increases. This is the critical factor for how fast a tennis ball moves.

I don't know how much the density of the air has an influence but I guess you are talking about the friction of the air.

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 07:46 PM
Maybe there are some differences between tropical latitudes vs. higher latitudes with respect to air density at the same altitude. Of course temperature and weather also influences this significantly.

there are 6 different factors to be exact.

however, to find out how the ball flies you need to know the gravity of your location, the mass of the ball and the force produced by the tennis player. then do the same for a different location.

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 07:48 PM
nice qf for baggy... can only kind of imagine ferrer being too brutally solid for him today...

Certinfy
02-06-2009, 08:15 PM
Ferrer getting some good results. lol

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 08:35 PM
there are 6 different factors to be exact.

however, to find out how the ball flies you need to know the gravity of your location, the mass of the ball and the force produced by the tennis player. then do the same for a different location.

That's the mechanical part of the equation in a vacuum. However, as you can see from the gravity numbers, the actual force gravity only varies by less than percent over different altititudes -- that's not going to make a huge difference in the speed of the ball.

However, air friction, as you say it, defined by air density decreases a lot at higher altitudes (tens of percent lower) -- and this is by far the most important factor causing the faster speed of the ball at higher altitudes.

Bilbo
02-06-2009, 08:42 PM
However, air friction, as you say it, defined by air density decreases a lot at higher altitudes (tens of percent lower) -- and this is by far the most important factor causing the faster speed of the ball at higher altitudes.

the main question is how much does air friction influence a tennis ball which is flying with something like 100 km/h or more.

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 08:47 PM
the main question is how much does air friction influence a tennis ball which is flying with something like 100 km/h or more.

Indeed, I am rusty on physics but I think the relatively high speed of the ball indeed means that friction is a significant factor (it would be less if the ball moved slower).

ORGASMATRON
02-06-2009, 08:50 PM
Ferrer is looking really good in altitude, he could take this one.

Jozie
02-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Ferrer is looking really good in altitude, he could take this one.

Yesterday you were saying how good Baggy looks. :o