2009 Updated ATP Rankings Thread [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

2009 Updated ATP Rankings Thread

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Judio
12-29-2008, 11:37 AM
Thread Now Closed

scoobs
12-29-2008, 12:10 PM
Thanks - and, er, good luck :)

duong
12-29-2008, 01:03 PM
I think that in the beginning of the year, they will keep on considering the "5 best other results" than grand slams, masters series and masters cup.

There's no other way I can imagine.

But anyway, I'm looking forward to the "ATP2009_rulebook" ... like you :wavey:

dijus
12-29-2008, 02:55 PM
thanks
great work as always

Ububub
12-29-2008, 03:23 PM
Where are all of the Rafettes trumpeting Nadal's having the most ranking points ever?!!!!!!

This doubling of points is the silliest thing ever.

sweetymessi
12-29-2008, 03:39 PM
thank u

greatkingrat
12-29-2008, 05:07 PM
I hope to Update the First three posts

but I will not update the first week until the ATP
give a full and complete explanation
of how the Changes in 09 are going to work.

I don't think even the ATP have worked out how it is going to work yet :D

Fed Express
12-29-2008, 06:04 PM
Great stuff! This is a great way to look at the rankings!

Aurora
12-29-2008, 06:27 PM
looking forward to another year of Judio wisdom :bowdown:

and hoping there is soon more clarity!

10K Futures Qualifier
12-29-2008, 10:06 PM
Thank you!

NinaNina19
12-29-2008, 11:06 PM
Thanks.

smucav
12-30-2008, 03:10 AM
I hope to Update the First three posts
but I will not update the first week until the ATP
give a full and complete explanation
of how the Changes in 09 are going to work.http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/information/rankfaq.asp

duong
12-30-2008, 08:58 AM
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/information/rankfaq.asp

This is a first step, but there are still quite many points which need to be clarified.

Anyway, I think that for the beginning of the year it's quite clear that it's still the rule 4 GS, 9 MS, Masters Cup + 5 best others which will apply,

as Monte-Carlo was compulsory in 2008, and there were no ATP-500 and ATP-250 nor Davis Cup ranking points.

I think that Judio can already update the rankings for next monday :)

-SaFiinsBabY-
12-30-2008, 01:35 PM
Thank you :)

MrExcel
12-31-2008, 06:22 PM
Keep up the good work :) I'm sure as soon as the ATP know what the hell they're gonna do, you will too ;)

danton
12-31-2008, 10:48 PM
Thanks again - and good luck!

Pea
01-01-2009, 01:16 AM
Thanks Judio!

irish_mike
01-01-2009, 01:46 AM
Its going to be a good tennis year...

ZackBusner
01-04-2009, 11:43 AM
:tape:

They really did it. They really doubled all points from last year. Until I saw the new ranking this morning, I still had some hope they would stop this non-sense, especially as it was not mentioned in the rulebook.

trucul
01-04-2009, 12:01 PM
:tape:

They really did it. They really doubled all points from last year. Until I saw the new ranking this morning, I still had some hope they would stop this non-sense, especially as it was not mentioned in the rulebook.

Why do they still have best 14 for Doubles Ranking with Jan, 5th ranking ? :confused:

I thought it would be best 18 ... Very confusing ...

GlennMirnyi
01-04-2009, 06:04 PM
:tape:

They really did it. They really doubled all points from last year. Until I saw the new ranking this morning, I still had some hope they would stop this non-sense, especially as it was not mentioned in the rulebook.

You can always hope for the worst coming from those morons in the ATP.

ciiruls12
01-04-2009, 09:30 PM
So great If some played Challenger or Futures at the end of 2008..
Double points for whole year..
AWESOME..
Dumbasses ATP..

Sunset of Age
01-04-2009, 09:38 PM
:tape:

They really did it. They really doubled all points from last year. Until I saw the new ranking this morning, I still had some hope they would stop this non-sense, especially as it was not mentioned in the rulebook.

What a mind-blowing, innovative, intelligent, original, and helpful move of the ATP! This will surely draw gazillions of new fans!

Euh... NOT. :tape: :o

duong
01-05-2009, 08:47 AM
So great If some played Challenger or Futures at the end of 2008..
Double points for whole year..
AWESOME..
Dumbasses ATP..

If people like it, I plan on starting a "equivalent-ATP-race thread" after the Aus Open.

Since I calculated that for the top-100 players, the average ratio between the 2009 points system and the 2008 points system is rather around 1.4 (and even rather 1.2 for the players ranked after 60) than 2,

it's sure that the results in 2008 will have a great importance in this year's ranking until they disappear from their rankings.

And they will not publish any Race-ranking, whereas the Race was the easiest way to understand the ranking,

then I think someone has to make this thread.

I can make it if nobody else plans to do it.
I'm used to calculating the rankings with a data collection of around 130 players.

federernadalfan
01-05-2009, 09:03 AM
thanks judio for all the hard work :yeah:

amirbachar
01-05-2009, 01:36 PM
If people like it, I plan on starting a "equivalent-ATP-race thread" after the Aus Open.

Since I calculated that for the top-100 players, the average ratio between the 2009 points system and the 2008 points system is rather around 1.4 (and even rather 1.2 for the players ranked after 60) than 2,

it's sure that the results in 2008 will have a great importance in this year's ranking until they disappear from their rankings.

And they will not publish any Race-ranking, whereas the Race was the easiest way to understand the ranking,

then I think someone has to make this thread.

I can make it if nobody else plans to do it.
I'm used to calculating the rankings with a data collection of around 130 players.

Yeah, that would be great - especially this year with all the changes.

anttik
01-05-2009, 04:04 PM
Oh yeees duong! Your 2008 Tennis Race-ranking would be interesting. I think a new thread for it would be a good solution. Waiting for your new ranking after this week.

mgorganchian
01-05-2009, 05:07 PM
New Old This Project
Rank Rank Player Week Points
1 1 Nadal 0 13,160 D
2 2 Federer 0 10,610 D
3 3 Djokovic 0 10,590 B
4 4 Murray 0 7,050 D
5 5 Davydenko 0 5,330 C
6 6 Simon 0 3,960
7 7 Tsonga 0 3,950 B
8 8 Roddick 0 3,940 D
9 9 Del Potro 0 3,890
10 10 Blake 0 3,550
11 11 Nalbandian 0 3,450
12 12 Ferrer 0 3,390
13 13 Monfils 0 2,950
14 14 Gonzalez 0 2,840
15 15 Verdasco 20 2,830 B
16 16 Wawrinka 0 2,670 C
17 17 Soderling 20 2,650 B
18 18 Almagro 0 2,540
19 19 Andreev 0 2,490
20 20 Berdych 0 2,400 B
21 21 Robredo 0 2,390
22 22 Fish 0 2,330 B
23 23 Gasquet 20 2,320 B
24 25 Karlovic 0 2,280 C
25 27 Cilic 0 2,250 C


Why Tsonga fall 1 spot?
On Dec 29th 2008 he had 2050 and now he has 3950/2 = 1975.

Can you explain me?
Thanks,
Matias

duong
01-05-2009, 07:39 PM
Oh yeees duong! Your 2008 Tennis Race-ranking would be interesting. I think a new thread for it would be a good solution. Waiting for your new ranking after this week.

Yes of course it would have to be another thread
... but I will not start it before the Australian Open : after the first week, the leaders would be of course ... the winners of the tournaments of the first week ;)

meihaditalab
01-06-2009, 12:11 AM
Nadal has a promising lead. I'm just not sure if he's going to be able to keep up the same intensity in the coming years... but he's still an amazing player, and im sure is going to stay #1 for a long while

Deborah
01-06-2009, 08:12 AM
Gulbis beat Djokovic in the first round of Doha today. Any chance of Murray taking over the number 3 spot soon?

Garson007
01-06-2009, 09:15 AM
Gulbis beat Djokovic in the first round of Doha today. Any chance of Murray taking over the number 3 spot soon?
In AO, yup.

duong
01-06-2009, 09:23 AM
Gulbis beat Djokovic in the first round of Doha today. Any chance of Murray taking over the number 3 spot soon?

Murray should win the AO and hope that Djokovic does not reach the semi-finals

(he could not be number 2 so early)

Deborah
01-06-2009, 11:29 AM
Thanks guys!! :)
Djokovic has a wild card for Sydney, but since seeds will be taken from the 12th when Sydney starts, Federer will indeed still be seeded no.2 unless what Djokovic does in Sydney. ;)

When do the points from the Australian Open come off?

duong
01-06-2009, 11:49 AM
When do the points from the Australian Open come off?

only after the Australian Open (since it's a two-week event the fact that the year started one week later doesnot change anything).

The results Djokovic might have in Sydney wouldn't change much about the hypotheses about his rankings after the Australian open : only that if he wins the tournament and Murray has poor resulmts in Doha, the quarterfinals in AO might be enough to be sure to keep his 3rd place.

Johnny Groove
01-06-2009, 03:04 PM
Djokovic has a Sydney wildcard?

Well Fed is gonna have the #2 seed for the Aussie but I guess if Djokovic does well in Sydney he'd snatch the #2 rank at least during the AO.

duong
01-06-2009, 03:15 PM
Well Fed is gonna have the #2 seed for the Aussie but I guess if Djokovic does well in Sydney he'd snatch the #2 rank at least during the AO.

Djokovic will certainly have to win the AO for that.

Sunset of Age
01-06-2009, 03:17 PM
Djokovic will certainly have to win the AO for that.

Don't see that happening myself.

Johnny Groove
01-06-2009, 03:22 PM
If Murray wins the AO and Djokovic loses QF or earlier, Muzza is #3

Tzar
01-06-2009, 03:26 PM
and if Nalbylicious wins the AO? :haha:

Månu
01-06-2009, 03:36 PM
I don't get why Simon iis playing the Hopman Cup instead of trying to secure a spot in the top8 for the seedings in the AO...

duong
01-06-2009, 04:32 PM
I don't get why Simon iis playing the Hopman Cup instead of trying to secure a spot in the top8 for the seedings in the AO...

he's already sure for that :

except injuries, the 8 and even the 12 first seeds are already known :

1 & 2 Nadal & Federer
3 & 4 Djokovic & Murray
5 to 8 Davydenko Simon Tsonga Roddick
9 to 12 Del Potro Blake Nalbandian Ferrer

between 9 and 16 Monfils, Gonzalez and Verdasco are also certain to keep their seed in that range

Michael Bluth
01-06-2009, 09:58 PM
Ferrero had better watch it, if he goes out early in Auckland and at the AO he could drop out of the top 100.

duong
01-07-2009, 09:40 AM
Panic Over

With his wins in Brisbane Tsonga will now keep his 6th place(over Simon but Roddick could still catch him)

At least Simon had been number 6 for one week.

Roddick can catch Simon if he wins Doha but he cannot catch Tsonga before the AO (his 5th best result was 220 points in Tokyo)

duong
01-07-2009, 09:42 AM
A second round win is an extra 25 points but Seppi's Best counting result is 80 so he must reach the Final at least
Kohlschreiber must reach the Semi to have a chance

Both Seppi and Kohlschreiber (or at least one of them if Seppi def. Federer and Kohlschreiber def. Seppi) have to beat Federer to be seeded in the AO.

tensyo
01-07-2009, 12:31 PM
Judio,
Since tournaments started 1 week earlier last year, do you not have to take off last years sydney & auckland points when you do your projected points on page 1.

What happens with AO points? Will ATP take last year's points off after 1st week of this year's AO?

duong
01-07-2009, 02:37 PM
I hope you don't mind if I answer for you, Judio :hatoff:

Judio,
Since tournaments started 1 week earlier last year, do you not have to take off last years sydney & auckland points when you do your projected points on page 1.

He did

What happens with AO points? Will ATP take last year's points off after 1st week of this year's AO?

no, because the ATP never updates its ranking in the middle of a two-weeks tournament (GS, IWells, Miami)

duong
01-07-2009, 02:52 PM
EDIT : sorry I had not seen your post, Judio !
We say the same actually :)

as I'm here and have some time,

after Davydenko's withdrawal from Aus Open,

here are the certain seeds for the Aus Open (except further withdrawal) :

1&2 Nadal & Federer
3&4 Djoko & Murray
5 to 8 Tsonga-Simon-Roddick-Del Potro
9 to 12 Blake-Nalbandian-Ferrer-Monfils
13 to 16 Gonzalez-Verdasco-Wawrinka-Soderling
17 to 24 : Almagro-Andreev-Berdych-Robredo-Fish-Gasquet-Karlovic-Cilic (except if Stepanek wins Brisbane then he might replace one of the four last ones)
25 to 32 : Stepanek-Safin-Lopez-Mathieu-Tursunov-Melzer-Schuettler-Kohlschreiber (except if Seppi beats Federer and goes to the final ... or only the semi-final if Kohlschreiber loses today)

danton
01-07-2009, 03:46 PM
The point of these changes was too make it simpler - They failed!

Adri89
01-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Yes, these changes are ridiculous ... :(

greatkingrat
01-07-2009, 08:38 PM
17 to 24 : Almagro-Andreev-Berdych-Robredo-Fish-Gasquet-Karlovic-Cilic (except if Stepanek wins Brisbane then he might replace one of the four last ones)


A final will be enough for Stepanek to get the 24th seed as long as Cilic does not reach the semis of Chennai.

duong
01-07-2009, 08:53 PM
A final will be enough for Stepanek to get the 24th seed as long as Cilic does not reach the semis of Chennai.

yes thank you for noting that : I hadn't realized but Davydenko's withdrawal allows that to Stepanek.

Btw now Kohlschreiber is certain to be seeded in the AO.

tensyo
01-08-2009, 01:33 AM
I hope you don't mind if I answer for you, Judio :hatoff:



He did



no, because the ATP never updates its ranking in the middle of a two-weeks tournament (GS, IWells, Miami)

Thanks for clarifying.
I made a mistake with 2008 sydney & Auckland points. Did not realise many players had them as non-countable events.

So players rankings are not always based on past 52 weeks. Could be 53 weeks, but never 51?

duong
01-08-2009, 01:38 AM
So players rankings are not always based on past 52 weeks. Could be 53 weeks, but never 51?

in a way, it can be 50 weeks in the very particular case that after Paris tournament, the results of the Masters Cup of the previous year are deleted.

Kolya
01-08-2009, 02:05 AM
How many points does Davydenko lose after the Australian Open?

duong
01-08-2009, 03:09 AM
How many points does Davydenko lose after the Australian Open?

300 (not yet in danger for his 5th rank ... rather later after Miami)

Michael Bluth
01-08-2009, 09:52 PM
With his win over Hanescu today does Roddick catch Simon at #7?

Renaud
01-08-2009, 11:04 PM
With his win over Hanescu today does Roddick catch Simon at #7?
Nop. He needs to win Doha.

duong
01-09-2009, 01:47 PM
With his semi-final in Chennai, Granollers will enter the top-50 next week.

And because of Cilic's victory today, Stepanek must now win the tournament in Brisbane if he wants to hope becoming number 23 or 24 seed in AO.

schorsch
01-09-2009, 05:43 PM
if nole does well in sydney, could he get to nr.2 ?

Johnny Groove
01-09-2009, 06:46 PM
if nole does well in sydney, could he get to nr.2 ?

If he makes the finals of Sydney, he'll be #2

Roger still has the #2 seed at the AO though

schorsch
01-09-2009, 08:05 PM
yeah, doesnt matter thx blaze, i thought the final was enuf, too. now i know for sure. ya, well. doesnt matter, a new career-high would be nice for me as a nole fan in any case and it would spice up things for the ao :devil:

Michael Bluth
01-10-2009, 05:33 AM
Will Verdasco go to 14 with this win, or will he need to win the title to do so?

Renaud
01-10-2009, 11:35 AM
Will Verdasco go to 14 with this win, or will he need to win the title to do so?
He needs to win the title. :)

Nidhogg
01-10-2009, 11:57 AM
Roddick just might become the fifth seed for AO. Not bad.

Nidhogg
01-10-2009, 01:19 PM
Yes, I know that. :)

danton
01-10-2009, 08:00 PM
Quick question anyone.

You know have counted 4 500 events and 2 250 events (top 30 people)
The ATP website still have 5 events counted - I assume they will gradually add the 6th event?
If we take Murray he has what looks like 3 500 events, 1 250 event and a 0 from Indianapolis.

a) If he only has 3 500's can he not count a 250 towards his total?
b) Indianapolis - is this not now gone as he has 5 better tournament points or will this remain there until the 14th July 08?

I have looked at other players and how I thought it worked is clearly not the case.

I realise it takes time to get used to things but I think the ATP have really screwed up here.
__________________

gjr
01-11-2009, 07:04 AM
Quick question anyone.

You know have counted 4 500 events and 2 250 events (top 30 people)
The ATP website still have 5 events counted - I assume they will gradually add the 6th event?
If we take Murray he has what looks like 3 500 events, 1 250 event and a 0 from Indianapolis.

a) If he only has 3 500's can he not count a 250 towards his total?
b) Indianapolis - is this not now gone as he has 5 better tournament points or will this remain there until the 14th July 08?

I have looked at other players and how I thought it worked is clearly not the case.

I realise it takes time to get used to things but I think the ATP have really screwed up here.
__________________

Don't know about the other stuff but Murrays 0 pointer will stay on till the drop off date because it was punishment for withdrawing too late.

duong
01-11-2009, 09:52 AM
Quick question anyone.

You know have counted 4 500 events and 2 250 events (top 30 people)
The ATP website still have 5 events counted - I assume they will gradually add the 6th event?

After Monte-Carlo's points are taken off (since Monte-Carlo was mandatory last year)

If we take Murray he has what looks like 3 500 events, 1 250 event and a 0 from Indianapolis.

There were no "real" ATP500 or ATP250 tournaments last year then you cannot count like that.

My main wonder about that rule is whether they will allow "2008 year-end top-30 players" to count more than 2 ATP250 (2009) results in their rankings before the end of the year :

we should know that in february after Johannesburg (Tsonga), or San Jose (Stepanek, Robredo) or more surely after Marseille (also Almagro, Cilic, Gasquet).

I personally believe they will be able to count these 3 ATP250 results first since they cannot have played 4 ATP500 tournaments before summer.


a) If he only has 3 500's can he not count a 250 towards his total?
b) Indianapolis - is this not now gone as he has 5 better tournament points or will this remain there until the 14th July 08?


a) yes he can (even in the end of the year there will be no problem for that)
b) no somebody answered you before

anttik
01-11-2009, 10:01 AM
Cilic will be ATP20 next week, if he wins in Chennai. Right? Fantastic!

duong
01-11-2009, 10:05 AM
Cilic will be ATP20 next week, if he wins in Chennai. Right? Fantastic!

exactly ;)

Ad Wim
01-12-2009, 09:54 AM
Stupid question maybe, but is there still an ATP (Champions) Race ranking? If so, where is it? I don't see it on ATP website and neither on SteveG...

mashamaniac
01-12-2009, 10:19 AM
Dude,it's been all just one week so far! i guess there'll be a race ranking there soon but not for now !

Ad Wim
01-12-2009, 10:24 AM
But it's the fucking ATP, they should have it all sorted out now, and for them it should be pretty easy to put up an ATP Race because they already update the normal SAA rankings...

So it is not definitely the fact that there is not going to be an ATP Race ranking this year?
Or is it normal that there is no Race standing after the first week?

duong
01-12-2009, 01:35 PM
This sums up the new ATP Rankings

If Djokovic fails to reach the Final he will be at number 3
and Federer 2 at START of Aussie Open

If Djokovic beats Federer in the Semis of Australia
and then defends his title, Djokovic will leapfrog Federer
in the Rankings even though they had IDENTICAL results
from 2008 !!!!!

This is because Federer will get less points for
a 2009 Semi then the 2008 points (doubled)

1. The "strange conclusion" you point out about the "new ranking system" is not exactly because of the new ranking system, but because there's a change in the ranking system and this year will be a transition period.

2. About Djokovic/Federer, for the end of this week, you have said it : if Djokovic reaches the final in Sydney, he will be number 2 next monday.

3. About Djokovic/Federer, but AFTER the Australian Open, here's a summary :

a. if Djokovic wins the Australian Open, then Federer has to reach the final to keep the ranking number 2.

b. but if Djokovic doesn't win the Australian Open, then to be number 2 after Melbourne, it would be enough for Federer to reach the quarterfinals, and even the R16 if Djokovic doesn't win in Sydney either.

4. About Djokovic/Murray, Murray can be number 3 after the Australian Open if he wins the Australian Open and Djokovic doesn't reach the semi-finals (no matter the result in Sydney). Murray cannot go ahead of Federer though.

calvinhobbes
01-12-2009, 06:23 PM
[QUOTE=duong;7997089]

2. About Djokovic/Federer, for the end of this week, you have said it : if Djokovic reaches the final in Sydney, he will be number 2 next monday.

But anyway Fed will be seeded No. 2 in AO. Am I wrong?

duong
01-12-2009, 07:27 PM
But anyway Fed will be seeded No. 2 in AO. Am I wrong?

you are right as it's last monday('s ranking which counts for the seeds.

~*BGT*~
01-12-2009, 08:27 PM
Will #25 Gasquet meet #4 Murray in the 3rd round or 4th round at the AO?

NinaNina19
01-12-2009, 08:32 PM
Will #25 Gasquet meet #4 Murray in the 3rd round or 4th round at the AO?

They would meet in the third round.

~*BGT*~
01-12-2009, 08:48 PM
They would meet in the third round.

YES! It's on, Nina. :armed: Richie is gonna be the one to take him down :p .... I hope. :unsure:

It's a win-win. Because if he loses the match, well, he was supposed to. Murray is beating everyone so no dishonor in losing to him. :shrug: But if he wins... :woohoo:

NinaNina19
01-12-2009, 11:31 PM
YES! It's on, Nina. :armed: Richie is gonna be the one to take him down :p .... I hope. :unsure:

It's a win-win. Because if he loses the match, well, he was supposed to. Murray is beating everyone so no dishonor in losing to him. :shrug: But if he wins... :woohoo:

There is a 12.5% chance he will face Murray though.

duong
01-13-2009, 07:40 AM
They would meet in the third round.

no they cannot meet earlier than the 4th round as Gasquet will be seeded 17-24
(Gasquet is 25th but Davydenko is out)
and Murray 1-8

Tzar
01-14-2009, 03:01 PM
since nalbo won today he is back in the top 10?

duong
01-14-2009, 03:31 PM
since nalbo won today he is back in the top 10?

even if he wins the tournament, it will not be enough

(his worst "other result" is "200 points")

Michael Bluth
01-14-2009, 04:49 PM
I'd imagine he'll have a chance at the AO, Blake has the quarters to defend(and I find it highly unlikely he gets back to them) and Nalby only has the third round.

NinaNina19
01-15-2009, 02:59 AM
no they cannot meet earlier than the 4th round as Gasquet will be seeded 17-24
(Gasquet is 25th but Davydenko is out)
and Murray 1-8I forgot Davydenko was out.

NinaNina19
01-15-2009, 03:00 AM
If Del Potro wins the tournament he'll be number 6.

lalit
01-15-2009, 03:31 PM
what will gasquet rank be if he loses in the semis

duong
01-15-2009, 04:56 PM
what will gasquet rank be if he loses in the semis

25 like now (23 if he goes to the final)

duong
01-15-2009, 04:56 PM
what will gasquet rank be if he loses in the semis

25 like now (23 if he goes to the final)

Arkulari
01-15-2009, 05:34 PM
right now, if Djoker wins the tournament, he'll be #2? :sad:

duong
01-15-2009, 05:51 PM
right now, if Djoker wins the tournament, he'll be #2? :sad:

he only has to beat Nieminen : it's enough
... but anyway, that will not change anything for the seeds,
and hadrly anything for the rankings after the Australian open.

calvinhobbes
01-15-2009, 10:12 PM
he only has to beat Nieminen : it's enough
... but anyway, that will not change anything for the seeds,
and hadrly anything for the rankings after the Australian open.

The Sydney 2009 Points will be effective next Monday, but the A0 2008 points will be erased at the same time. As Djoko loses more of these erased points than Fed, I guess the official count will not reflect this transitional No 2 condition until after AO, if it would be the case. Please, tell me if I am wrong.

mgorganchian
01-15-2009, 11:04 PM
I think that AO 2008 will drop on 2-Feb-09, at least that is what appears on the atpworldtour site.
See Djokovic ranking break down:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/pointsbreakdown.asp?player=D643

duong
01-15-2009, 11:08 PM
The Sydney 2009 Points will be effective next Monday, but the A0 2008 points will be erased at the same time. As Djoko loses more of these erased points than Fed, I guess the official count will not reflect this transitional No 2 condition until after AO, if it would be the case. Please, tell me if I am wrong.

As Mgorganchian told you, the AO points will be erased only after the Australian Open
(yes, there is a one-week lag comparing to last year but the Australian Open lasts two weeks, that's why next monday it will not be erased yet).
We had already said that earlier in this thread.

meihaditalab
01-15-2009, 11:19 PM
This is soooo weird, novak is going to take over 2nd soon :S

duong
01-16-2009, 07:46 AM
This is soooo weird, novak is going to take over 2nd soon :S

Missed again :o

sunsfuns
01-16-2009, 07:48 AM
Missed again :o

And it's very unlikely he will get that close again this year! :)

Hola Mr. SK
01-16-2009, 07:57 AM
Wtf with all the flying points?? ATP is suffering from inflation? :retard:

Thanks for the work,Judio.You legend!

duong
01-16-2009, 08:02 AM
And it's very unlikely he will get that close again this year! :)

If somebody asks again, after the Australian Open, here's a summary :

a. if Djokovic wins the Australian Open, he will be number 2.

b. but if Djokovic doesn't win the Australian Open, then to be number 2 after Melbourne, it would be enough for Federer to reach the 3rd round.

About Djokovic/Murray, Murray can be number 3 after the Australian Open if he wins the Australian Open and Djokovic doesn't reach the semi-finals. Murray cannot go ahead of Federer though.

duong
01-16-2009, 09:22 AM
I have edited the b actually :

the 3rd round (not even R16) will be enough for Federer to keep his number 2 if Djokovic doesn't win the tournament.

Other news :
- Del Potro is number 8 (number 6 if he wins Auckland)
- Querrey reaches a carreer-high of 33 (30 if he wins Auckland)

extremaduratenis
01-16-2009, 11:28 AM
Anyone knows what results must happen for Nadal losing nº1 spot?? Thanks

duong
01-16-2009, 11:41 AM
Anyone knows what results must happen for Nadal losing nº1 spot?? Thanks

impossible after the Australian Open

... but if he loses in the 1st round and Federer wins the tournament, Federer would be only 500 points behind.

mgorganchian
01-17-2009, 04:13 AM
Del potro win Auckland and now he is #6. Need to confirm if we add 50 more to Nalbandian in case he wins...


Before New Player Year Cty. Jan 12 18th 19th Ptd Gs Ptd other GS Other Feb 2
1 1 Nadal, Rafael 1986 ESP 13160 50 90 0 13070
2 2 Federer, Roger 1981 SUI 10700 90 0 900 0 9800
3 3 Djokovic, Novak 1987 SRB 10650 90 0 2000 0 8650
4 4 Murray, Andy 1987 GBR 7190 150 110 0 0 7190
5 5 Davydenko, Nikolay 1981 RUS 5330 120 120 300 0 5030
9 6 del Potro, Juan Martin 1988 ARG 4060 150 80 70 0 3990
6 7 Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried 1985 FRA 3995 45 0 1400 0 2595
7 8 Simon, Gilles 1984 FRA 3960 200 50 150 0 3810
8 9 Roddick, Andy 1982 USA 3940 220 150 150 0 3790
10 10 Blake, James 1979 USA 3550 150 60 500 0 3050
11 11 Nalbandian, David 1982 ARG 3450 200 50 150 0 150 3300
12 12 Ferrer, David 1982 ESP 3390 150 60 500 0 2890
14 13 Monfils, Gael 1986 FRA 3010 30 8 0 0 3010
15 14 Gonzalez, Fernando 1980 CHI 2840 120 40 150 350 2380
16 15 Verdasco, Fernando 1983 ESP 2830 150 60 70 0 2760
13 16 Wawrinka, Stanislas 1985 SUI 2670 0 0 70 0 2600
17 17 Soderling, Robin 1983 ESP 2650 110 50 0 0 2650
18 18 Almagro, Nicolas 1985 ESP 2540 80 40 0 0 2540
19 19 Andreev, Igor 1983 RUS 2490 100 50 150 0 2340
20 20 Cilic, Marin 1979 CRO 2450 80 25 300 0 2150

mgorganchian
01-17-2009, 04:18 AM
Sorry for the format. It was tab separated but it is not reflected in the board.

natashha
01-17-2009, 11:12 AM
Sorry for the format. It was tab separated but it is not reflected in the board.
You just need to put it in code tags.
Del potro win Auckland and now he is #6. Need to confirm if we add 50 more to Nalbandian in case he wins...


Before New Player Year Cty. Jan 12 18th 19th Ptd Gs Ptd other GS Other Feb 2
1 1 Nadal, Rafael 1986 ESP 13160 50 90 0 13070
2 2 Federer, Roger 1981 SUI 10700 90 0 900 0 9800
3 3 Djokovic, Novak 1987 SRB 10650 90 0 2000 0 8650
4 4 Murray, Andy 1987 GBR 7190 150 110 0 0 7190
5 5 Davydenko, Nikolay 1981 RUS 5330 120 120 300 0 5030
9 6 del Potro, Juan Martin 1988 ARG 4060 150 80 70 0 3990
6 7 Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried 1985 FRA 3995 45 0 1400 0 2595
7 8 Simon, Gilles 1984 FRA 3960 200 50 150 0 3810
8 9 Roddick, Andy 1982 USA 3940 220 150 150 0 3790
10 10 Blake, James 1979 USA 3550 150 60 500 0 3050
11 11 Nalbandian, David 1982 ARG 3450 200 50 150 0 150 3300
12 12 Ferrer, David 1982 ESP 3390 150 60 500 0 2890
14 13 Monfils, Gael 1986 FRA 3010 30 8 0 0 3010
15 14 Gonzalez, Fernando 1980 CHI 2840 120 40 150 350 2380
16 15 Verdasco, Fernando 1983 ESP 2830 150 60 70 0 2760
13 16 Wawrinka, Stanislas 1985 SUI 2670 0 0 70 0 2600
17 17 Soderling, Robin 1983 ESP 2650 110 50 0 0 2650
18 18 Almagro, Nicolas 1985 ESP 2540 80 40 0 0 2540
19 19 Andreev, Igor 1983 RUS 2490 100 50 150 0 2340
20 20 Cilic, Marin 1979 CRO 2450 80 25 300 0 2150

mgorganchian
01-17-2009, 12:41 PM
New Old This Project Low
Rank Rank Player Week Points Opt
1 1 Nadal 10 12270 A
2 2 Federer 10 9810 A
3 3 Djokovic 10 8660 A
4 4 Murray 10 7190 A
5 5 Davydenko 0 5030
6 6 Del Potro 10 4000 A
7 8 Simon 10 3820 A
8 9 Roddick 10 3800 A
9 11 Nalbandian 10 3360 A
10 10 Blake 10 3060 A
11 13 Monfils 10 3020 A
12 12 Ferrer 10 2900 A
13 15 Verdasco 10 2770 A
14 17 Soderling 10 2660 A
15 16 Wawrinka 10 2610 A
16 7 Tsonga 10 2605 A
17 18 Almagro 10 2540 A
18 14 Gonzalez 10 2430 A
19 23 Stepanek 10 2360 A
20 19 Andreev 10 2350 A
21 22 Robredo 10 2330 A
22 24 Fish 10 2190 A
23 20 Cilic 10 2160 A
24 26 Karlovic 10 2155 A
25 21 Berdych 10 2110 A

Judio most of the players have 10 point more than what I calculated... I realized I made a mistake for Nadal as I substracted 90 instead of 900... :) but if he is now 13160 and drop 900 shouldn't he have 12260 and not 12270?
Federer 10700 - 900, 9800 and not 9810?
etc..

Can you explain me?

duong
01-17-2009, 01:03 PM
Judio most of the players have 10 point more than what I calculated... I realized I made a mistake for Nadal as I substracted 90 instead of 900... :) but if he is now 13160 and drop 900 shouldn't he have 12260 and not 12270?
Federer 10700 - 900, 9800 and not 9810?
etc..

Can you explain me?


because for those who can take part in Melbourne (eg not Davydenko), even if they lose in the 1st round of Melbourne, they win 10 points

mgorganchian
01-17-2009, 01:24 PM
because for those who can take part in Melbourne (eg not Davydenko), even if they lose in the 1st round of Melbourne, they win 10 points

Oh, thanks I understand, they have to enter to the court, hit the ball once in any GS and they will get 10 points. What about MS?

duong
01-17-2009, 01:31 PM
Oh, thanks I understand, they have to enter to the court, hit the ball once in any GS and they will get 10 points. What about MS?

the same ... except if they entered thanks to a wild-card

(doesn't work in other tournaments including ATP500)

mgorganchian
01-17-2009, 01:37 PM
Thanks. I didn't knew the WC rule.

How much I learn with you guys...

Judio, in case you think, why I do this follow up having your rankings being so accurate.
Well, I use yours top 20 list to learn if I do things right as I keep a ranking updated for all the 104 Argentine players.

Without the data you post it will be very difficult for me to check if I am doing things well...

duong
01-17-2009, 01:53 PM
Thanks. I didn't knew the WC rule.

How much I learn with you guys...

Judio, in case you think, why I do this follow up having your rankings being so accurate.
Well, I use yours top 20 list to learn if I do things right as I keep a ranking updated for all the 104 Argentine players.

Without the data you post it will be very difficult for me to check if I am doing things well...

You will learn quite quickly (even if this year there will be the difference between ATP500 and ATP250 tournaments which will complicate a little bit).

Don't forget to add one "other result" when a player cannot play a GS or MS1000 because his ranking is too low (use the entry-lists on MTF 6 weeks before the tournament to know that), which he had played last year
(or take out, for instance for Del Potro who had not played Cinci and Toronto last year because his ranking was too low 6 weeks before)

You can compare with the official ATP rankings anyway.

Michael Bluth
01-17-2009, 03:58 PM
So will they be taking points off the week before every week now?

decrepitude
01-17-2009, 07:33 PM
I don't think it is quite that simple. There is a listing on steveg tennis that shows when points go on and drop off, which is a little clearer than looking for the individual drop-off dates on each player's ranking page: http://stevegtennis.com/thisweek+.htm

LEO_Legionario
01-17-2009, 08:24 PM
After of the win in Sidney, Nalbandian come back to top ten group, he' is now the #10

Tzar
01-17-2009, 09:10 PM
David :woohoo:

greatkingrat
01-17-2009, 09:41 PM
Nalbandian is not in the top 10, he is still #11, 50 points behind Blake. He has a good chance of reaching the top 10 after the Aus Open as he is defending less points than Tsonga and Blake.

LEO_Legionario
01-17-2009, 10:46 PM
it's true, i forgot the 200 points in qeens

Experimentee
01-18-2009, 02:03 AM
Can anyone estimate where Hrbaty's ranking will be after qualifying for the AO?

duong
01-18-2009, 07:18 AM
Can anyone estimate where Hrbaty's ranking will be after qualifying for the AO?

around 230-235

felipe2004
01-19-2009, 11:31 PM
If a Lucky Loser loses in the 1st round of the main draw of a Grand Slam, how many points does he get? And what if he wins the title?

smucav
01-20-2009, 12:41 AM
If a Lucky Loser loses in the 1st round of the main draw of a Grand Slam, how many points does he get? And what if he wins the title?Lucky losers earn the same number of points as direct entrants (plus the points they earned in the qualifying tournament):
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=7897806&postcount=1

duong
01-20-2009, 08:32 AM
Lucky losers earn the same number of points as direct entrants (plus the points they earned in the qualifying tournament):
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=7897806&postcount=1

yes for instance Delic has won the 1st round : if he loses in the 2nd, he will earn 14+45=59 points.

If Dancevic loses in the 1st round, he will earn 14+10=24 points.

lleytonlegend
01-22-2009, 03:58 AM
Judio, around what ranking will hewitt, guccione, tomic and klein be?

duong
01-22-2009, 10:49 PM
Judio, around what ranking will hewitt, guccione, tomic and klein be?

Tomic little bit less than 600 (a little bit behind Krajinovic actually), 160 rankings better than now.

Klein around 225 (+25)

duong
01-22-2009, 10:53 PM
Can anyone estimate where Hrbaty's ranking will be after qualifying for the AO?

after reaching the 2nd round, around 210-215

Stensland
01-23-2009, 03:50 PM
if nadal loses tomorrow and roger wins the tournament, will he be the new (old) number 1 after the tournament?

Johnny Groove
01-23-2009, 04:51 PM
if nadal loses tomorrow and roger wins the tournament, will he be the new (old) number 1 after the tournament?

In that scenario:

Nadal- 12350
Federer- 11800

Deborah
01-23-2009, 08:29 PM
Any idea where Xavier Malisse will be on the rankings after the Aussie Open? He came through the qualifying draw and lost second round to Roddick.

ZackBusner
01-23-2009, 08:34 PM
Any idea where Xavier Malisse will be on the rankings after the Aussie Open? He came through the qualifying draw and lost second round to Roddick.

around 175

Deborah
01-23-2009, 09:22 PM
^^ Thanks! :)

Sonic
01-24-2009, 10:38 AM
is it really only 90 points for a 3rd round and 45 for a 2nd? atptennis has 70 for a 2nd round and 150 for a 3rd?

Johnny Groove
01-24-2009, 12:40 PM
is it really only 90 points for a 3rd round and 45 for a 2nd? atptennis has 70 for a 2nd round and 150 for a 3rd?

Because those are 2008's ranking points simply doubled. Not 2009 points

Michael Bluth
01-25-2009, 02:44 AM
Where do Delic and Sela go in the rankings after this?

born_on_clay
01-25-2009, 12:19 PM
What will be Baghdatis' ranking after reaching 4th round AO?

decrepitude
01-25-2009, 02:18 PM
What will be Baghdatis' ranking after reaching 4th round AO?

I make him up to 84 at present; but if he goes out to Djokovic, there are a few players just below him playing in Challengers this next week who could knock him down a few places.

born_on_clay
01-25-2009, 07:56 PM
I make him up to 84 at present; but if he goes out to Djokovic, there are a few players just below him playing in Challengers this next week who could knock him down a few places.

thanks a lot

Stensland
01-25-2009, 09:14 PM
how deep does monfils have to go into the tournament to secure a top 10 spot by the end of january? or has he done that already?

Tzar
01-26-2009, 08:08 AM
Blake and Monfils are out, If Verdasco and Or Tsonga loses in QF david ends AO in top 10 :rocker2:

Tzar
01-26-2009, 08:20 AM
Tsonga, Verdasco and Blake are the only that can pass David.

With Verdasco in QFS waiting for Tsonga/Blake david Has secured spot at 10. :worship: Since only One of the three will make Semis.

David. :worship:

kyleskywalker007
01-26-2009, 08:29 AM
This is hardly relevant at this time of the year. Besides, there is not much of a difference between 11 and 10 other than saying that you are in the top 10.

Flibbertigibbet
01-26-2009, 08:30 AM
:lol:

delpiero7
01-26-2009, 08:30 AM
:worship: Dave :worship:

Climbing up the rankings even though he's been sat on his arse eating pies for the last week.

The man is a genius!

Diprosalic
01-26-2009, 08:32 AM
this is how you do it

finishingmove
01-26-2009, 12:11 PM
i don't think anything will make me laugh this good anytime soon...

Nathaliia
01-26-2009, 12:12 PM
Minimum effort maximum result, and he might need the larger point gain in 2010.

Too big :D.

safinafan
01-26-2009, 12:23 PM
Nalband is a luck man :lol: If he lost in the first round he could be world number 5 :haha:
Vamos gordo!!!

lorenz
01-26-2009, 12:33 PM
The gordo is a genius !!!!

safinafan
01-26-2009, 12:36 PM
Genius :bounce: Maestro Numero Um

Minerva
01-26-2009, 12:46 PM
True GOAT. :cool:

Collective
01-26-2009, 02:04 PM
Looks like ESPN Latin America has its excuse to hail "Rey David" after his pathetic performance.

jmf07
01-26-2009, 02:28 PM
:haha::haha::haha::haha:

reggie1
01-26-2009, 02:33 PM
What, 10th in the world's fastest pie eating contest?

Stensland
01-26-2009, 03:36 PM
This is hardly relevant at this time of the year. Besides, there is not much of a difference between 11 and 10 other than saying that you are in the top 10.

well if it's the first time you're entering the top 10 (monfils), it would be relevant. at least for me.

duong
01-26-2009, 04:47 PM
Where do Delic and Sela go in the rankings after this?

Sela 88 so far (but some challenger players can go ahead)

Delic will nearly not change (already qualifying and 2nd round last year, and there were more points with the old ranking system)

Kolya
01-27-2009, 10:24 AM
A few players catching up to Kolya!

Its going to be interesting after Miami :help:

Tzar
01-27-2009, 12:08 PM
Show them DAVID!!!

Johnny Groove
01-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Djokovic losing 1,640 points with this loss :tape:

gjr
01-27-2009, 02:01 PM
Roddick moves up the rankings again? Every year i think it's the year than he finally bows out of the top 10 and into early retirement but he keeps plugging away.

Hats off to the guy for trying anyways. Good luck against The Fed. He'll need it :)

Johnny Groove
01-27-2009, 02:16 PM
If Simon loses to Nadal, Roddick is guaranteed #6

Gonzalez88
01-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Why Gonzo is 18° with only 2600 points??

mgorganchian
01-27-2009, 05:32 PM
Why Gonzo is 18° with only 2600 points??
Current points:2840
PTD Other: 350
PTD GS: 150
Points won: 180

Best 18: 120
Best 19: 80

mgorganchian
01-27-2009, 05:34 PM
If Simon loses to Nadal, Roddick is guaranteed #6

Unless Tsonga wins the AO Open but after Fed match this is something nobody is considering...

ChinoRios4Ever
01-27-2009, 07:59 PM
Why Gonzo is 18° with only 2600 points??

He lost the points of Viña's title. :sad:

Gonzalez88
01-28-2009, 06:19 PM
Ah now it's ok!!!

DartMarcus
01-28-2009, 06:33 PM
Roddick No. 6 :worship:

Johnny Groove
01-28-2009, 08:06 PM
If Roddick beats Federer, he'll be be within 40 points of Davydenko :p

Manila ESQ
01-28-2009, 11:02 PM
New Old This Project Low
Rank Rank Player Week Points Opt
1 1 Nadal 720 12980 A
2 2 Federer 720 10520 A
3 3 Djokovic 360 9010
4 4 Murray 180 7360
5 5 Davydenko 0 5030
6 9 Roddick 720 4510 A
7 6 Del Potro 360 4350
8 8 Simon 360 4170
9 15 Verdasco 720 3480 A
10 11 Nalbandian 45 3395
11 10 Blake 180 3230
12 13 Monfils 180 3190
13 12 Ferrer 90 2980
14 7 Tsonga 360 2955
15 17 Soderling 45 2695
16 16 Wawrinka 90 2690
17 18 Almagro 90 2620
18 14 Gonzalez 180 2600
19 22 Robredo 180 2500
20 23 Stepanek 90 2440
21 19 Andreev 90 2430
22 20 Cilic 180 2330
23 21 Berdych 180 2280
24 24 Fish 90 2270
25 26 Karlovic 45 2190

Nando cracks the top 10! Congrats!

Yves.
01-28-2009, 11:04 PM
Tsonga :haha:

oranges
01-28-2009, 11:28 PM
Tsonga :haha:

Yves :haha:

Shabazza
01-29-2009, 12:01 PM
I think we can say that the Top 2 will not be caught for a long time
now.

Djokovic was one win away.......

Indeed. Tsonga saved Federer at TMC.

Horatio Caine
01-29-2009, 12:03 PM
I think we can say that the Top 2 will not be caught for a long time
now.

Djokovic was one win away.......

Yep, especially with the new points system being the way it is. Moreover, it isn't great news for the lower end of the top 50 that there were so few upsets at the AO.

duong
01-29-2009, 12:23 PM
Indeed. Tsonga saved Federer at TMC.

And Nieminen in Sydney and Nadal in Hamburg, Roland-Garros and Queens and Federer in US Open.

Actually I don't think that they saved Federer so much, but they harmed Djokovic for sure.

Anyway he should be number 2 one day, but it might be quite far from now.

Bazooka
01-29-2009, 12:40 PM
Anyway he should be number 2 one day, but it might be quite far from now.

Being much weaker than last year, I doubt he will defend his points at IW or *chuckles* Rome.

Not to mention the SFs of MC, Hamburg/Madrid and RG. He better regain his 2008 level or may lose his #3 real quick.

Månu
01-29-2009, 01:21 PM
Tsonga :haha:


Tsonga did not play neither in Roland Garros nor in Wimbledon last year, he will be coming back soon in the top 10!

duong
01-29-2009, 02:24 PM
Being much weaker than last year, I doubt he will defend his points at IW or *chuckles* Rome.

Not to mention the SFs of MC, Hamburg/Madrid and RG. He better regain his 2008 level or may lose his #3 real quick.


I was not so short-sighted as this year : Djokovic still has a long carreer ahead.

Btw, the point about the top-2 not changing before RolandGarros/Wimbledon is not really because of the new ranking system,

but because of the fact that the number 1 has won 2 grands slams (and maybe one more win or final) and the number 2 has played last 4 grand slam finals, winning at least one.

Then whatever ranking system would give the same result :lol:

croat123
01-29-2009, 03:46 PM
sad to see cilic fall in the rankings by a few spots despite playing really well

born_on_clay
01-30-2009, 09:56 PM
6 Roddick 4510
7 Del Potro 4350
8 Simon 4170

If you add all three of their points together, they still would have
less than Rafa :eek:

Rafa is just awsome !

mashamaniac
02-01-2009, 02:15 PM
Judio,now that rafa has won OZ what is the gap between him and the other big 4?

mashamaniac
02-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Judio,now that rafa has won OZ what is the gap between him and the other big 4?

Ok,thanks for quick update judio ... i see rafa is 3260 pts ahead!! :worship:

Johnny Groove
02-01-2009, 05:43 PM
Nadal has over 14,000 points :lol:

Hoping for an extended stay at #1 :cool:

rafa_maniac
02-02-2009, 01:28 AM
Nadal has over 14,000 points :lol:

Hoping for an extended stay at #1 :cool:

And no titles to defend till Monte Carlo :cool:

Foxy
02-02-2009, 10:18 AM
Nadal is safe until Miami finishes (assuming he doesn't play any tournament and current N2 wins all Dubai, IW, Miami).

mashamaniac
02-02-2009, 01:57 PM
And no titles to defend till Monte Carlo :cool:

And also MC isn't mandatory anymore :cool::worship:

Baghdatis#1
02-02-2009, 08:24 PM
Economidis :o
Mazarakis :o

bobbynorwich
02-02-2009, 10:10 PM
Geez, Djokovic was only 10 pts behind Fed before the Aussie Open, now 1990. What a difference a Gr Slam can make.

bobbynorwich
02-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Where are all of the Rafettes trumpeting Nadal's having the most ranking points ever?!!!!!!

This doubling of points is the silliest thing ever.
The doubling is silly, but not the degraded redistribution of lower finishers. That does make some sense.

bobbynorwich
02-02-2009, 10:25 PM
Djokovic's points were heavily loaded at the beginning of the season, aside from his win at the Tennis Masters Cup in November. As his opponents are now very aware of his breathing and heat intolerance problems, his rankings could tank in a hurry.

Michael Bluth
02-03-2009, 09:03 PM
Can Tsonga get back in the top 10 if he wins the title in Johannesburg?

duong
02-04-2009, 10:32 AM
Can Tsonga get back in the top 10 if he wins the title in Johannesburg?

no, only become 13th if he reaches the semis, and nothing more even if he wins.

The_Nadal_effect
02-04-2009, 04:29 PM
Hey Judio!

If Rafa's 14000 points by the new system of points are converted into the old system, how much would that be? 8000+? As high as Fed? Please let me know.

~*BGT*~
02-04-2009, 06:15 PM
What has to happen in the next 2-3 months for Roddick to replace Davydenko as #5? He must defend San Jose and Dubai for sure.

duong
02-04-2009, 06:23 PM
Hey Judio!

If Rafa's 14000 points by the new system of points are converted into the old system, how much would that be? 8000+? As high as Fed? Please let me know.

exactly half of his score : 7130 points (a little bit better than his previous best)

duong
02-04-2009, 06:27 PM
What has to happen in the next 2-3 months for Roddick to replace Davydenko as #5? He must defend San Jose and Dubai for sure.

Davydenko will lose Miami points : they are nearly on the same line.

Roddick should rather worry about Del Potro for that :devil: :

Roddick will lose more than 1000 points, Del Potro ... nearly nothing ! and he's only 160 points behind.

Simon will lose a little bit more than Del Potro, but still far less than Roddick.

Michael Bluth
02-04-2009, 10:49 PM
I think Del Potro will be 5 soon, he has virtually nothing to defend until after Wimbledon.

Sapeod
02-04-2009, 10:56 PM
Hey Judio. Will you be able to do Top 80 0r 85 in the future. Just wondering. 'cos that would be great.
Keep up the good work. Since ATPTennis.com doesn't do the same as you, you're the best up to date rankings manager there is.

amirbachar
02-05-2009, 11:13 AM
top 200:
http://www.tennisteen.it/classifiche-aggiornate.html

duong
02-05-2009, 11:55 AM
top 200:
http://www.tennisteen.it/classifiche-aggiornate.html

Do they make a Race on that website ?

More generally speaking, if anybody knows a website which gives a Race with at least top-100 (other than here on menstennis forums), I would be very interested :D

amirbachar
02-05-2009, 01:07 PM
Do they make a Race on that website ?

More generally speaking, if anybody knows a website which gives a Race with at least top-100 (other than here on menstennis forums), I would be very interested :D

Actually there is:
http://tenniscorner.net/index.php?corner=m&action=rankings&type=singles&race=yes

duong
02-05-2009, 01:47 PM
Actually there is:
http://tenniscorner.net/index.php?corner=m&action=rankings&type=singles&race=yes

Thanks a lot, I was so happy in the beginning

... but then :crying2: :

they don't include challengers, I really want them included (because my purpose is to predict the future rankings).

Well at least they give what was given by the ATP website last year.

But if anybody could see a "Race" like that including challengers, I would be very grateful for that ! :worship:

Sapeod
02-05-2009, 04:09 PM
I stick to only 75 because if you go below there you have too many Challenger results
to try and keep track of.....


Fair enough.:) Keep it up. :yeah:

nkp2
02-06-2009, 01:37 AM
Is Murray's lowest OPT not 0?

duong
02-06-2009, 01:46 AM
Is Murray's lowest OPT not 0?

No his "zero" was due to late withdrawals,

and then he cannot have it replaced by another result before the 20th of july

Mimi
02-06-2009, 09:36 AM
thanks as usual, Judio for your great work, but i don't like this new ranking system, seems complicated :scratch:

duong
02-06-2009, 09:49 AM
Rotterdam is the First 500 event

If a top 30 player plays and loses 1st Round, do they have to count
that zero Immediately as it is one of the Best4 500 events??

I don't think so, because there are other ATP500 tournaments later

... and it would be a disadvantage for those who play in Rotterdam.

I wonder more in the case where they go through 1st round but they get less points than their lowest "other result" so far, whether they will replace it with that "ATP500" result or not.

I also think they won't, but I'm less certain.

Anyway we will see.

They said in the rulebook that what is counted for the top-30 players is their best 4 results from all ATP World tour 500tournaments "played in the calendar year", not in the last 52 weeks.

... This precision "calendar year" is strange about the ATP Rankings, and I think it gives an indication :

they would not make any distinction between ATP500 and ATP250 tournaments until the moment when a top-30 player doesn't have enough ATP500 results in his rankings considering how many ATP500 tournaments are left in the calendar year (for instance, if a 2008-year-end top-30 player doesn't have any ATP500 results in his 6 best other results after Washington, then they would include one or include one "zero" because he will not be able to play 4 ATP500 tournaments from that moment).

That's mainly what I think ... but we will see on monday after Rotterdam.

Månu
02-06-2009, 12:56 PM
Good luck Judio, the ranking system is really a mess with the four 500 results. And so unfair with Memphis or Acapulco being 500 while tournaments like Marseille with better players is only a 250.

samanosuke
02-06-2009, 05:51 PM
Can someone give me explanation how it's possible that player won 300 points for 4th round of wimbledone and 180 points for the 4th round of australian open? All four grand slams have the same points breakdown ?

madmanfool
02-06-2009, 06:09 PM
Because of the new rankings obviously.

samanosuke
02-06-2009, 06:23 PM
I know but how wimbledone from last year can value 300 points and aussie open from this year 180 ????

natashha
02-06-2009, 06:25 PM
4th round of Wimbledone this year will also be 180.

madmanfool
02-06-2009, 06:28 PM
If I remember correctly they just doubled the old points. So 150 points becomes 300. But now there are NEW rankings. See the word "new" :) . Meaning the rankings are no longer the same. Now it's 180 points. What more can you say about this??
http://stevegtennis.com/rankpoints.txt the new points

reggie1
02-06-2009, 06:30 PM
Why exactly was the ranking system changed?

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 06:34 PM
Why exactly was the ranking system changed?

Apparently there was some skewed perception by influencial people that the top players should be awarded more in the ranking system, it seemed they just drilled through a drastic change reflecting this without much thought. Another observation you can make is that challengers are almost worthless especially in the first part of 2009. So it is impossible for a player to work himself up by playing challengers right now, because the double counted 2008 results are so much more weighted. Only at the end of 2009 will it correct a little. But then still challengers will be significantly devalued compared to how the rankings used to be.

HattonWBA
02-06-2009, 06:36 PM
New rankings

Horatio Caine
02-07-2009, 04:49 PM
Just wondering...if a player who finished 2008 outside the top 30 loses in R1 of a "500 event" (as a direct acceptance), would this go down in his ranking breakdown as a "500 event" rankings result, which could only be deleted if a maximum of 4 other "500 event" results beat it? Or, as I'd hope, could we basically ignore this R1 defeat (as, generally speaking, the player is likely to score better optionals results)?

Somehow, I don't think I have worded this very well, but hopefully someone understands...at least enough to be able to recount the proper rule (and I have checked the ATP rule book). :o

Thanks

:wavey:

gasguet#1
02-09-2009, 12:24 AM
I'm not sure if anyone can help with this question..... It's sort of too do with rankings in a round about way

In the Grandslam events with the 32 seeded players, They now do a system with who you draw for positions in the draw,
I have my own views on this..... but lets not go into that one

Does anyone have a copy of the system they use for determining the seeding spots in the draw?

Are Grandslam events the only draws that have this system?

Do they still do the old luck of the draw & pull numbers out of a hat so to speak for Master Series Events & other ATP Events?

Hope this is OK to post here.....wasn't sure where I find out the Infomation I was after

Foxy
02-09-2009, 10:28 AM
If you read the following it COULD mean that every
point from Rotterdam MUST count next Monday as they are
the first of the 500??



The ATP Rulebook says
The South African Airways ATP Rankings (singles) is based on calculating, for each player, his total points from

A The four Grand Slams,

B The eight mandatory 1000 tournaments and the ATP Finals,

C His best four results from all ATP World Tour 500 tournaments
played in the calendar year, one (1) of which must follow the US Open

D The best two results from all ATP World Tour 250, ATP Challenger Tour and Futures tournaments

Which category do Monte Carlo 1000 fall into?

duong
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
If you read the following it COULD mean that every
point from Rotterdam MUST count next Monday as they are
the first of the 500??



The ATP Rulebook says
The South African Airways ATP Rankings (singles) is based on calculating, for each player, his total points from

A The four Grand Slams,

B The eight mandatory 1000 tournaments and the ATP Finals,

C His best four results from all ATP World Tour 500 tournaments
played in the calendar year, one (1) of which must follow the US Open

D The best two results from all ATP World Tour 250, ATP Challenger Tour and Futures tournaments

I can see nothing in that saying how you do when there is only one ATP500 event having happened in the year.
I already told you what I thought about that :
why have they written "in the calendar year" whereas the ranking period is the last 52 weeks.

My interpretation is that they will only oblige to have 4 ATP500 results in the results of a (previous year-end) top-30 player in the end of the (calendar) year ... and before that, only check that it is still possible considering how many ATP500 tournaments are still left in the calendar year.

duong
02-09-2009, 10:48 PM
Just wondering...if a player who finished 2008 outside the top 30 loses in R1 of a "500 event" (as a direct acceptance), would this go down in his ranking breakdown as a "500 event" rankings result, which could only be deleted if a maximum of 4 other "500 event" results beat it? Or, as I'd hope, could we basically ignore this R1 defeat (as, generally speaking, the player is likely to score better optionals results)?

Somehow, I don't think I have worded this very well, but hopefully someone understands...at least enough to be able to recount the proper rule (and I have checked the ATP rule book). :o

Thanks

:wavey:

Your question concerns the top-30 players, not the players outside of the top-30.

In the end of the year, if this player hasn't gone through the 1st round for at least 4 ATP500 tournaments,

then this "zero" will count obviously.

That's the rule which I had told you is not favourable to the top-30 players.

Let me express this rule another way : if Cilic does something in Marseille, considering that he has already won two ATP-250 tournaments, and that he was top-30 in the end of last year, then these points in Marseille will count for nothing in the end of the year.

The other question is how these will count temporarily be fore the end of the year.

I have already expressed my views about that sooner in this thread, if you read them carefully,

but so far, the ATP has said nothing clear about that.

Two questions raisong for instance :

- (asked by Judio) will the points (zero or even 45 if 45 is not among the best other results) in Rotterdam count for the top-30 players next monday ? (I believe not)

- (I ask) if Cilic reaches the semi-finals in Marseille, will he be allowed to count this 3rd ATP250 result among his 5 best results ? (we will see)

duong
02-09-2009, 10:55 PM
Why exactly was the ranking system changed?

I don't agree with what has been told you,

then to say basically what are the two main changes and why they did that :

- because of the introduction of the new concept of "ATP500 tournaments" to encourage players to take part in these tournaments and to make them make more money (for instance it seems that the TV in France will show Rotterdam far earlier in the week than previous years)

- because they wanted to give more points to the winner of the tournament (for instance they want to be sure that the player who has won 2 grand slams in the year will be number one rather than the one who has lost in 3 finals) and more generally speaking to the players who have impressed everybody becaus they have made ONE great result rather than to those who have made some lower results

gasguet#1
02-09-2009, 11:58 PM
Rule 7.16 here
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/rulebook/VII_The%20Competition.pdf

Thanks Judio for the link & Info

Didn't say how the seeding formula is worked out at GS.... depending on your seed to which group of players you might face in a possible 3R at GS events,

What Im trying to find out.... Is this only for Grandslam Events, or will be used for Masters 1000 Events & what system is used for masters 500 & 250 events for the draw?

duong
02-10-2009, 06:25 AM
What Im trying to find out.... Is this only for Grandslam Events, or will be used for Masters 1000 Events & what system is used for masters 500 & 250 events for the draw?

In all events with a draw larger than 32 : all grand Slams and Masters 1000, and few ATP250 and ATP500 events (no need to use thuis rule when the draw has only 32 players as there are only 8 seeds)

Same rule for all of them which Judio has posted for you.

gasguet#1
02-10-2009, 07:24 AM
In all events with a draw larger than 32 : all grand Slams and Masters 1000, and few ATP250 and ATP500 events (no need to use thuis rule when the draw has only 32 players as there are only 8 seeds)

Same rule for all of them which Judio has posted for you.

Thanks so much for the info I was after.... Much Appreciated;)

gasguet#1
02-10-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks for all the help regarding the Info etc I was after.... Still trying to get my head around the new rankings & points for the 2009 Season..... Think Its all making sense at the moment

With the new system in place..... Don't know if any others are finding this.... we are not getting the movements week to week in rankings like we used to have with the old system

I can't work out if I like this new system or not....... IMHO.... I am finding that this new system at this early stage of the season is really not doing much for Richie, feel this new system has sent his ranking backwards & he hasn't got a hope in hell of making any in-roads in improving his ranking soon..... 2SF, 3R & He still can't get past Fish!

I have worked out, Correct me if I have got it all wrong, Richie needs to make the QF in Rotterdam to just get enough points to move up one position in the new rankings???

I think if you beat players ranked above you, thee should be some system to gain extra points, I really can't see him with any hope of making any Improvement with his ranking till after Miami if he makes QF in Rotterdam, Marseille (http://secure-us.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bin/b?ci=us-atpclick&cg=ptnm&tu=http://www.open13.fr/), & Dubai.... He is going to get hardly any points.... havent done any calculations past Marseille


Hope someone can make sense of all this for me, & sorry if I have got it all wrong..... Dont know why they had to change the points system, later in the year I might come to love it!

the only players I can see who are going to have any chance of going well are the elite of the game who are in SF onwards in Slams, & Masters 1000 Events or others who get a dream event & work through the draw at these events

If you are pretty consistant at the 500 & 250 events..... & make it to QF most times, It would take you almost the whole year to move or have any chance

duong
02-10-2009, 03:02 PM
Thanks for all the help regarding the Info etc I was after.... Still trying to get my head around the new rankings & points for the 2009 Season..... Think Its all making sense at the moment

With the new system in place..... Don't know if any others are finding this.... we are not getting the movements week to week in rankings like we used to have with the old system

The new system doesn't change anything about that,

except that this year (2009, but it will be different in 2010), the changes will be slower because last year points have been too much amplified by being doubled.

I can't work out if I like this new system or not....... IMHO.... I am finding that this new system at this early stage of the season is really not doing much for Richie, feel this new system has sent his ranking backwards & he hasn't got a hope in hell of making any in-roads in improving his ranking soon..... 2SF, 3R & He still can't get past Fish!

The new system doesn't change as much as people think.
You cannot interpret these movements by "an effect of the new system"
... but many people do that :rolleyes:


I have worked out, Correct me if I have got it all wrong, Richie needs to make the QF in Rotterdam to just get enough points to move up one position in the new rankings???

The semis because his lowest result so far is 90 points


I think if you beat players ranked above you, thee should be some system to gain extra points, I really can't see him with any hope of making any Improvement with his ranking till after Miami if he makes QF in Rotterdam, Marseille (http://secure-us.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bin/b?ci=us-atpclick&cg=ptnm&tu=http://www.open13.fr/), & Dubai.... He is going to get hardly any points.... havent done any calculations past Marseille

Hope someone can make sense of all this for me, & sorry if I have got it all wrong..... Dont know why they had to change the points system, later in the year I might come to love it!

the only players I can see who are going to have any chance of going well are the elite of the game who are in SF onwards in Slams, & Masters 1000 Events or others who get a dream event & work through the draw at these events

If you are pretty consistant at the 500 & 250 events..... & make it to QF most times, It would take you almost the whole year to move or have any chance

Of course if you want to improve your ranking, you have to beat players ranked above you :lol:

and in the case of Gasquet reach a semi-final in a Masters Series : Simon, Kiefer, Stepanek, Berdych did it, why not Gasquet ?

If he doesn't make better, he will not improve, that's for sure ... but isn't it fair comparing with other players ?

gasguet#1
02-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Thanks for setting me straight on the new point system.....

Hey I totally agree the only way to Improve your ranking is you need to beat these top players at slams or 1000 events or you are going to be left behind

With a bit of luck Richie will continue his good start to the 2009 season, After Key Biscayne.... He really hasn't got many points to fall off from 08 except later in the season, just trying to work out what his chances are of making the top 16 by time Wimbledon comes around

duong
02-10-2009, 03:25 PM
Thanks for setting me straight on the new point system.....

Hey I totally agree the only way to Improve your ranking is you need to beat these top players at slams or 1000 events or you are going to be left behind

With a bit of luck Richie will continue his good start to the 2009 season, After Key Biscayne.... He really hasn't got many points to fall off from 08 except later in the season, just trying to work out what his chances are of making the top 16 by time Wimbledon comes around

With a bit of luck and a lot of talent, I hope.

For the seeds in Wimbledon, anyway they don't use exactly the ATP ranking, they also use the past results in Wipmbledon and on grass, then I think Gasquet has a good chance of being in the top-16 seeds

(but sometimes it's better not to be seeded between 13 and 16, as if you are in these rankings, you have to meet one of the "big 4" in the 4th round)

amirbachar
02-11-2009, 05:08 AM
With a bit of luck and a lot of talent, I hope.

For the seeds in Wimbledon, anyway they don't use exactly the ATP ranking, they also use the past results in Wipmbledon and on grass, then I think Gasquet has a good chance of being in the top-16 seeds

(but sometimes it's better not to be seeded between 13 and 16, as if you are in these rankings, you have to meet one of the "big 4" in the 4th round)

It's still better to be seeded 13-16 than 17-24, because if a player is 17-24, he has 50% chance of meeting 13-16 in the 3rd round and then 1-4 in the 4th anyway, and 50% chance to meet 9-12th in the 3rd, which is not an easy task at all.

duong
02-11-2009, 08:10 AM
It's still better to be seeded 13-16 than 17-24, because if a player is 17-24, he has 50% chance of meeting 13-16 in the 3rd round and then 1-4 in the 4th anyway, and 50% chance to meet 9-12th in the 3rd, which is not an easy task at all.

I'm not sure for that, considering how superior the top-4 is :

if you are seeded 13-16, you are nearly certain to meet Nadal, Federer, Murray or Djokovic in the 4th round,

but if you are ranked 17-24, you only have half a chance. Yet it's true that you are likely to meet a 9-16 seed in the 3rd round.

But anyway, a player like Gasquet should only be afraid of Nadal, Federer, Murray or Djokovic, if he wants to improve.

Actually, the best is to have good results enough to be ranked among the 12 first seeds.
And the fact is that the top-12 is also quite superior to the rest of the field.

Saumon
02-11-2009, 09:32 AM
We have seen the first impact of the new Rankings system :eek:

Cilic (who is a top 30 player) has been quoted saying that he will withdraw from Marseille next week and next play in Dubai


This is because he has already won two "250 events" this year
and as a result of the New Ranking system he cannnot
gain a single point at these tournaments until Jan 2010:eek:

But what if he fails to defend/can't play the tournaments next year? Shouldn't he play some tournaments to have points in stock that would replace those 250 pts then? :scratch:

duong
02-11-2009, 11:46 AM
We have seen the first impact of the new Rankings system :eek:

Cilic (who is a top 30 player) has been quoted saying that he will withdraw from Marseille next week and next play in Dubai


This is because he has already won two "250 events" this year
and as a result of the New Ranking system he cannnot
gain a single point at these tournaments until Jan 2010:eek:

Exactly that may be an effect of the new ranking system ... but it's good that he realizes now that, as a top-30 player, he has to concentrate on the ATP500 and ATP1000 tournaments : that's what the ATP wants them to understand ... and it seems that not all of them have understood it (for instance he might certainly have played in Rotterdam instead of entering Marseille)

Of course what Saumon says is also true : for next year his points in Marseille might count.

But it's bad news for me :tears: , as I wanted to see how the ATP does consider the new rule in the short term, before the end of the year.

duong
02-11-2009, 12:40 PM
And also we can assume that Soderling will get a Zero
for withdrawing late from the 500 event in Rotterdam

IF he's in Rotterdam and shows his injury to the doctors, he will not get a zero-pointer from what I understood.

And from what I read, he is in Rotterdam and has a back injury.

Have you read any other information ? I would be greatly interested.

muc
02-11-2009, 01:07 PM
This new ranking system will help no one,another bad atp experiment,just like giving Memphis to be 500 point tournament etc.
Old rankings were much better,everything was understandable and now it is only confusion.
I hope this system will last only one season.

amirbachar
02-12-2009, 01:19 AM
Actually, the best is to have good results enough to be ranked among the 12 first seeds.
And the fact is that the top-12 is also quite superior to the rest of the field.

That's what I'm saying - I you are 17-24, you either play 9-12 in the 3rd round or 1-4 in the 4th (but you also play 13-16 in the 3rd in the latter case).
That's why it is better to be seeded 16th than 17th

amirbachar
02-12-2009, 01:23 AM
But what if he fails to defend/can't play the tournaments next year? Shouldn't he play some tournaments to have points in stock that would replace those 250 pts then? :scratch:

You right, but if he plays Marseille, it will count for only a month anyway. Later in the year, he might still want to play another 250 event.

duong
02-12-2009, 11:01 AM
That's what I'm saying - I you are 17-24, you either play 9-12 in the 3rd round or 1-4 in the 4th (but you also play 13-16 in the 3rd in the latter case).
That's why it is better to be seeded 16th than 17th

if you consider that the top-4 are highly superior to the others,

and if you want to reach the quarter-finals,

you may prefer to play 9-12 in the 3rd round, and 5-8 in the 4th,

rather than meeting a 1-4 in the 4th.

duong
02-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Queens and Halle before Wimbledon are only a 250

Players will play these to get Grass practice

that's one of the main problems of the new rankings :

the list of the ATP500 tournaments is not coherent with the list of the tournaments with the best field last year

... and it seems that this year not much is changed :

the same ATP250 tournaments (for instance Marseille, Doha, and of course the Queens and Halle) have a very good field,

and the same ATP500 tournaments (Memphis, Acapulco) have a low-quality field as last year.

Only very slight improvement for Memphis.

But also great improvement for the Australian preparation tournaments (Brisbane and Sydney) despite they are not ATP500.

For Memphis and Acapulco, the question is clearly that the best players prefer the European-Middle-East (Dubai) tournaments.

And it would have been logical that the Queens and/or Halle are ATP500 tournaments, but they were not chosen for business matters.

smucav
02-12-2009, 03:52 PM
And it would have been logical that the Queens and/or Halle are ATP500 tournaments, but they were not chosen for business matters.No grass tournaments applied for 500-level status. Those tournaments believed they could continue attracting the same fields without increasing the prize money to the amount necessary for a 500-level event.

oranges
02-12-2009, 03:56 PM
No grass tournaments applied for 500-level status. Those tournaments believed they could continue attracting the same fields without increasing the prize money to the amount necessary for a 500-level event.

You'd think that shouldn't be entirely on voluntary basis.

mgorganchian
02-14-2009, 05:41 PM
Judio: Ancic, should be 30 in the new rank.

amirbachar
02-14-2009, 10:56 PM
Why do you assume 0-pointer for Soderling?
players get a 0-pointer only for 2nd late withdrawal in the same calender year (and for missed Mandatory events of course).

Thanos
02-15-2009, 11:12 AM
is murray going to receive a 0 pointer for withdrawing late from marseille??

duong
02-15-2009, 02:11 PM
The new rules state that a top 30 player cannot
withdraw from an ATP 500 once they have made a
commitment to it

A player's withdrawal from an ATP World Tour 500 event whether on time or of after
the 12 noon deadline, shall result in a zero (0) point included as one of his best of four
(4) results. Further non-consecutive withdrawals shall result in a zero (0) point allocation
replacing the next best positive result for each additional withdrawal.

Following :

1. Players with multiple consecutive withdrawals who are out of competition for 30 days or longer due to injury will not be subjected to a ranking penalty as long as verified and approved medical forms are provided

2. A player shall note have the ranking penalty imposed if he completes the Promotional Activities requirement

3. or if the on-site withdrawal procedures apply

On-site withdrawal (page 249 of the rulebook or "on-site medical examination" page 135) :

Player withdraws after 12 noon Eastern time, USA on friday, and was on-site at the event when the withdrawal occurred and is determined unfit for play by that tournament's doctor ... This should be documented on the withdrawal summary from the tournament.

The question is :

did Soderling withdraw after 12 noon Eastern time and was Soderling examined in Rotterdam and determined to be unfit ?

On the withdrawal/retirement documentation on Rotterdam's drawsheet on the ATP website, it's written "Soderling (Robin) lower back"

It looks like the documentation which is mentioned in the definition of the on-site withdrawal.

Then I would rather believe it's an on-site withdrawal, from that single information ? except if you have some other information.

Btw, the one who looks being your favorite player, is out of Memphis (ATP500), it's not written why on the tournament's drawsheet and it seems that he withdrew on thursday.

Then I'm afraid he might get 0 point for that.
Except if he has a long-term injury or completes the promotional activities on-site.

duong
02-16-2009, 08:03 AM
I have been (partially) proved right with my concerns for this weeks Ranks ;)

The Main ATP Rankings page shows Simon (for example)
as 4015

This means that his Rotterdam Result HAS COUNTED
even though it is not a "Best 5"

This means that they are making you count your
ATP 500 scores straight away.

However in the detail page the ATP cant work out the new
system and have given him 4170 which works on the Old System

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

For Davydenko this is the same in the Detail page :

they really obliged the top-30 players who took part in Rotterdam to count their result among their best results, including those who didn't win any match (Andreev counted 0),

which is really stupid, I believe,

since this is clearly a disadvantage for the top-30 players who took part in Rotterdam and in the first ATP500 tournaments of the year (imagine Andreev who will also take part in Memphis if he gets another bad result ! :eek:) !!

And next year, if the players who took part in Rotterdam change their mind and rather play in Memphis one week later,

then they should count a zero if they didn't get more than 4 results in ATP500 tournaments including Rotterdam !

I really think they should have waited later in the year to make a distinction between ATP500 and ATP250 tournaments.

This would have been wise, but well :shrug:

As for Soderling, as you could see, they did'nt count his result in Rotterdam as he was injured.

PS : imagine a player who was in the top-30 in the end of 2008 and will not be in the end of 2009. Then the way his rankings are counted will change in the end of 2009 : he will be able to count all of his best results in ATP250 and 500 tournaments, then his points will increase and then he might be back in the top-30 thanks to that ! Crazy :shrug:

duong
02-16-2009, 08:10 AM
These are all the differences
You will note that all of these players were Top 30
on 1 Jan

Actually top-30 on the 17th of november 2008, after the Tennis Masters Cup, this was the rule they used (Schuettler was not top-30 on the 1st of january as he lost one result he got in a challenger in 2007)

amirbachar
02-16-2009, 08:25 AM
I have been (partially) proved right with my concerns for this weeks Ranks ;)

The Main ATP Rankings page shows Simon (for example)
as 4015

This means that his Rotterdam Result HAS COUNTED
even though it is not a "Best 5"

This means that they are making you count your
ATP 500 scores straight away.
I think some players will realize it and withdraw...

However in the detail page the ATP cant work out the new
system and have given him 4170 which works on the Old System

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's very strange that it must count only for players who played it. So it would be better to play more 500 events later in the year and not now...

amirbachar
02-16-2009, 08:29 AM
PS : imagine a player who was in the top-30 in the end of 2008 and will not be in the end of 2009. Then the way his rankings are counted will change in the end of 2009 : he will be able to count all of his best results in ATP250 and 500 tournaments, then his points will increase and then he might be back in the top-30 thanks to that ! Crazy :shrug:

That would happen gradually - as they count the results only when they playing, they will take them out only one year after.
So no paradox here...

duong
02-16-2009, 08:46 AM
That would happen gradually - as they count the results only when they playing, they will take them out only one year after.
So no paradox here...

That's what I thought in the beginning.

After the first little moment of emotion :lol:, I still think you are and I was right about that.
But they seem to be so little flexible and intelligent in appliance that now I have some doubt (even if the tournament results donot disappear from their results, the formula used for counting might be changed as soon as they change category from top-30 to "non-top-30")

The main problem about the way they calculate will be rather about calendar changes, as I said before (if a player decides to play Memphis inside of Rotterdam : actually this "calendar problem" already existed with the previous system but it was far lower : now, the "4 ATP 500" rule is so strict that it will be a bigger problem, they could have used the ATP250 tournaments to lower that calendar problem, but unfortunately they didn't).

I would have thought that the "4 ATP500" rule would be applied quite flexibly in the beginning of the year to allow these calendar changes among ATP500 tournaments:

I thought that's why they had written "the 4 best ATP-500 results in the calendar year" in the rule :
to be more flexible about that rule in the beginning of the year.

Now I really wonder why they wrote "in the calendar year" : if they apply the rule like that, without allowing any flexibility for the calendar of your ATP500 tournaments, then why not write "in the past 52 weeks" (the ranking period) like the standard of the rankings ?

Foxy
02-16-2009, 10:12 AM
Judio, why Rafa's points are 14'260 in the offical ATP Rankings? It seems they have not calculated Rotterdam.

Edit: It is OK when the points breakdown are shown.
I think ATP suck now big time.

decrepitude
02-16-2009, 10:44 AM
They have not changed the detail for Nadal, Federer and Djokovic but they have changed Murray's. . .

They are showing the divisions as Slams, Masters 1000's (in which they have included last year's Monte Carlo even though it should be classed as a 500) and then APT 500s - but they have included his Doha result in here even though it should be a 250!

They haven't a clue. We suspected they did not really realise the practical implications of what they were doing, and we were quite right.