2009 TT Tiebreak System [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

2009 TT Tiebreak System

Labamba
12-22-2008, 10:36 PM
2009 Tiebreak System (TB)

TB System will have to be used in the event of both players/teams tipping the same amount of winners in a round.

For each round the manager must decide on 20 SR (set ratio) matches and these should be numbered SR1 > SR20 with SR1 also being a PTS (predict-the-score) match. This should be done for every round (where possible). These selected matches should be considered to be the most difficult to predict in the schedule. However selection of the matches chosen is always at the manager's discretion. For every 1st round of every draw (singles & doubles, main draw & qualifying) players should send PTS scores for all 20 SR matches. This is done to avoid any match being decided by ranking.

The new TT TB System:

Note: Matches with retirement won't count in the TB system.

1. Total # of Set Ratios correct: 1-20 (20 where possible) > if same then

2. Set Ratio shoot-out: 1-20 (compare SR1, SR2, SR3, etc.) > if same then

Note: When both players pick the loser, the shoot-out win goes to the one who gave more sets to the winner.

3. PTS 1 (1-20 in all first round matches)

Both players have incorrect winner in the PTS match: +2 points for every set predicted for the winner

Correct order of sets for:

1 set – 1 point
2 sets – 4 points
3 sets – 7 points
4 sets – 10 points
5 sets – 13 points

Correct scoreline for:

1 set – 3 points
2 sets – 6 points
3 sets – 9 points
4 sets – 12 points
5 sets – 15 points

4. Tournament Countback (CB) - # of correct picks from all the previous rounds (qualifying not counted)

5. CB1 (countback from previous round), CB2 (countback from two rounds back), CB3, etc.

6. Steps 1-3 from the previous round(s) (if the previous round doesn't break the tie, then go two rounds back, etc.)

7. Game Difference and Number of Games System (taken from the PTS scores) (If the picked player of either TT-player loses, the match won't count for GD purposes; 20 possible GD matches in the first rounds)

The game difference and the number of games played is used.

example 1
player A - Federer 6-4 6-3 = +5 game difference and 19 games played
player B - Federer 6-4 7-5 = +4 game difference and 22 games played

result - Federer 6-4 7-6 = +3 game difference and 23 games played.

player A -> 2 game difference + 4 games played = 6
player B -> 1 game difference + 1 games played = 2

-> player B def player A

example 2
player A - Federer 6-1 1-6 7-6 = +1 game difference and 27 games played
player B - Federer 7-5 6-7 7-6 = +2 game difference and 38 games played

result - Federer 7-6 6-7 7-6 = +1 game difference and 39 games played.

player A -> 0 game difference + 12 games played = 12
player B -> 1 game difference + 1 games played = 2

-> player B def player A

If there's a tie, the player with the closer game difference will advance. If both players have the same game difference and the same number of games played, then

8. Ranking (the higher ranked player/team wins)

Labamba
12-22-2008, 10:37 PM
new thread for the new season

If you have questions about a tiebreak, ask them here :wavey:

FiBeR
12-24-2008, 02:01 AM
:p found the answer to my question on the rules thread :p

Renaud
12-24-2008, 10:48 AM
Just a question to be sure i understood well.

SR1 Cakl/Federer
SR2 Torres/Djokovic
SR3 Lisnard/Nadal
Etc....

Both players have 10 right picks and 7 right SR

Real score:
Federer 63 64
Torres 62 63
Lisnard 36 64 62

My picks:
Federer 62 75
Djokovic 62 36 64
Nadal 64 76

Fiber picks
Federer 63 64
Djokovic 62 76
Nadal 36 75 62

I win because i gave Torres one set?
And in 2008 Fiber would have won thanks to PTS1 ?

Labamba
12-24-2008, 12:50 PM
I win because i gave Torres one set?
And in 2008 Fiber would have won thanks to PTS1 ?

yes to both ;)

trucul
12-24-2008, 02:47 PM
Question for the 5 set matches:

Nadal/Roddick
Federer/Davydenko
Murray/Tsonga

Real Score:
Nadal 63 64 63
Federer 64 57 36 64 86
Murray 63 64 63

My picks:
Nadal 75 62 61
Federer 64 57 63 64
Murray 63 36 64 63

Fiber picks:
Nadal 63 62 64
Federer 64 63 64
Murray 63 36 64 63

In that case, that goes to PTS and Fiber wins even if picking 3-1 is closer in SRs than 3-0 ...

But if real result had been Davydenko 64 57 36 64 86, I would have won.

Is that correct that "nearest" SR score is only true in case both players pick losers and not when they have correct winners but incorrect SR score ?

Labamba
12-25-2008, 12:48 PM
Is that correct that "nearest" SR score is only true in case both players pick losers and not when they have correct winners but incorrect SR score ?

yes, it's correct

trucul
12-25-2008, 01:41 PM
Thanks ! I have one question related to PTS, even if this is not new in 2009. But I would like to make it clear for everybody.

Both players have incorrect winner in the PTS match: +2 points for every set predicted for the winner

Correct order of sets for:

1 set – 1 point
2 sets – 4 points
3 sets – 7 points
4 sets – 10 points
5 sets – 13 points

Correct scoreline for:

1 set – 3 points
2 sets – 6 points
3 sets – 9 points
4 sets – 12 points
5 sets – 15 points

If result of the match is Federer def. Nadal 6/4 3/6 7/6 3/6 6/4

If I pick Nadal 6/3 6/2 4/6 6/1
I guess I will get following points:

+2: because I picked one set for the winner (Federer).
+4: because I have correct order of sets for sets 2 and 3 (I understand order of sets as winner of a set but I am not sure).
+6: because I get correct scoreline for 6/3 Nadal and 6/4 Federer.
========
Total is 12 points.

Is my understanding correct ? Thanks in advance for your answer.

Labamba
12-25-2008, 07:00 PM
Total is 12 points.

Is my understanding correct ? Thanks in advance for your answer.

no, total is 15 points (2+7+6)

you have 3 sets in correct order

trucul
12-25-2008, 07:38 PM
no, total is 15 points (2+7+6)

you have 3 sets in correct order

Oops sorry ... You are right. But this confirms my understanding of what correct order of sets is. ;)

Zirconek
02-02-2009, 05:58 PM
2. Set Ratio shoot-out: 1-20 (compare SR1, SR2, SR3, etc.) > if same then




It needs to be more clear. Managers have to check:
a) Correct winners of all matches, and then SR of the matches.
or
b) Correct winner of SR1 match, if the same check SR1, only if still tied then goes to SR2 match...

GlennMirnyi
02-02-2009, 06:08 PM
It is clear... it's what you put under item B.

Zirconek
02-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Yes, I know it's like in "b", but it should be made more clear like was in previous year's TB threads, especially for the new managers.

I personally think the option "a" is more interesting than the option "b" BTW.

Rik.
04-27-2009, 04:02 PM
63 64 and 64 63 is still the same? :wavey:

Labamba
04-27-2009, 04:56 PM
63 64 and 64 63 is still the same? :wavey:

yes

juakos17
08-07-2009, 12:35 AM
Player A: Haas 6-4 3-6 7-6
Player B: Haas 4-6 6-4 6-3

Result: Haas 7-5 2-6 6-1


Who Wins?

Ozone
08-07-2009, 12:43 AM
Either play A wins (correct order) or it goes to the next shootout.

Labamba
08-07-2009, 10:43 PM
A wins 7-1

Luinir
03-12-2010, 09:47 PM
Player A: 6-4 6-2
Player B: 6-3 6-4
Result: 6-0 6-3

who wins?

savesthedizzle
03-13-2010, 01:20 AM
Player A: 6-4 6-2
Player B: 6-3 6-4
Result: 6-0 6-3

who wins?

Player B :) They got a set score correct :)

Hotzenplotz
08-10-2010, 02:00 PM
Note: Matches with retirement won't count in the TB system.
I'm told this rule isn's actually applied and matches with retirement count in the shootout when players pick different winners or give a different number of sets to the winner. If this is true, please correct the wording of the rule since the way it's written now clearly all matches with retirement are eliminated from any consideration when the TB has to decide a match :)

orangehat
08-10-2010, 02:03 PM
I'm told this rule isn's actually applied and matches with retirement count in the shootout when players pick different winners or give a different number of sets to the winner. If this is true, please correct the wording of the rule since the way it's written now clearly all matches with retirement are eliminated from any consideration when the TB has to decide a match :)

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=9800183&postcount=318

Looks like I remembered it correctly. Retirement counts for correct winner but not if giving a set to winner.

Hotzenplotz
08-10-2010, 02:39 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=9800183&postcount=318

Looks like I remembered it correctly. Retirement counts for correct winner but not if giving a set to winner.

Yes, it seems you're right :yeah: . Anyway, this thread should be updated and renamend 2010 TT Tiebreak System as it seems we don't have a complete overview of that system right now.

Goldenoldie
08-10-2010, 05:08 PM
Yes, it seems you're right :yeah: . Anyway, this thread should be updated and renamend 2010 TT Tiebreak System as it seems we don't have a complete overview of that system right now.

We do in fact have a complete overview of the 2010 TieBreak system in the FAQ/Guide thread here:-

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=8127655&postcount=6

However I've just discovered that the link in the standard tournament thread which we include in post #8 or #9 goes to the old 2009 system and not to the 2010 system, so it's easy to get things wrong.

Perhaps Labamba could amend the standard thread?

juakos17
08-24-2010, 07:38 PM
In my match in Geneva CH

00:00 | (7) juakos17 (CHI) vs. DuncanFerguson (ARG)
Reix vs. Paukku
Gutierrez-Ferrol vs. Bossel
Prpic vs Lopez-Jaen
Belyaev vs. Sadecky

SR differences:
Reix 2-0 v Paukku 2-0
Gutierrez 2-0 v Bossel 2-0
Prpic 2-0 v Lopez Jean 2-0
Belyaev 2-0 v Sadecky 2-0


OOP:
Clement REIX (FRA) vs. Juho PAUKKU (FIN) SR1 PTS
Sergio GUTIERREZ-FERROL (ESP) vs. Adrien BOSSEL (SUI) SR2 PTS
Filip PRPIC (SWE) vs. Miguel Angel LOPEZ JAEN (ESP) SR4 PTS
Alexander SADECKY (SUI) vs. Ilya BELYAEV (RUS) SR6 PTS

Results:
Reix 2-1
Bossel 2-0
Prpic 2-0
Sadecky 2-1

Who wins? please :)

Labamba
08-25-2010, 02:58 PM
juakos17

scoobs
08-25-2010, 04:25 PM
Can you explain why?

Björki
08-25-2010, 05:05 PM
shootout SR1. correct winner.

scoobs
08-25-2010, 05:12 PM
i better get my head round this stuff when i'm managing again.

thanks :)

Goldenoldie
08-26-2010, 09:44 AM
i better get my head round this stuff when i'm managing again.

thanks :)


If you use -Evita-'s spreadsheet the SR shootout is calculated automatically when necessary. Only if the match goes to PTS does the winner need to be worked out manually.

Anyone managing without using the spreadsheet has my total admiration (and sympathy) :)

dinkulpus
08-26-2010, 01:50 PM
If you use -Evita-'s spreadsheet the SR shootout is calculated automatically when necessary. Only if the match goes to PTS does the winner need to be worked out manually.


From where I can download it? :rolleyes:

Goldenoldie
08-26-2010, 04:22 PM
From where I can download it? :rolleyes:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=139499

It works best with Open Office Calc which is part of the Open Office suite. It is similar to Excel but free.

Download from
http://download-new-version.com/openoffice/index.asp?aff=11232&camp=yhuk_suitet&se=yahoo

scoobs
08-27-2010, 04:16 PM
If you use -Evita-'s spreadsheet the SR shootout is calculated automatically when necessary. Only if the match goes to PTS does the winner need to be worked out manually.

Anyone managing without using the spreadsheet has my total admiration (and sympathy) :)
true but it's helpful to understand how these things are decided in case anyone does ask ;)

Goldenoldie
08-27-2010, 05:50 PM
true but it's helpful to understand how these things are decided in case anyone does ask ;)

Yes, I spent many fruitful hours studying the tie-break rules before I became a player, and then I studied them twice as hard when I became a manager. :angel:

torochico
09-29-2010, 02:01 AM
Player A: 6-4 6-4
Player B: 6-4 6-3

result: 6-3 6-7 6-4

I need know who wins in this situation, please

Boarder35m
09-29-2010, 02:05 AM
Player A: 6-4 6-4
Player B: 6-4 6-3

result: 6-3 6-7 6-4

I need know who wins in this situation, please

Player B wins :p

Both players have the same numbers of correct winners of sets (1)

In TT 6-3 6-4 is the same as 6-4 6-3, so player B picked 2 scorelines correct, while player A only picked 1 scoreline correct :wavey: