Should bad language be tolerated on the courts?? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Should bad language be tolerated on the courts??

Emptyseat
05-31-2008, 06:08 AM
I was watching the Murray and Almagro match yesterday. There was a photo shot with Murray and 2 ball boys in the background where Murray yelled out FUCK really loud. Throughout the match, you could hear Murray talk to himself and say some really obscene words. Now I myself am a tennis player and realize that frustration is a big part of this game, but should this kind of language be tolerated on the courts where most ball boys are teenagers? What example does that set for them? Youzhny is another hothead who im sure curses in Russian, so not many folks can understand him anyways. However, something needs to be done about this! I wouldn't let my kid be a ball boy during Andy's matches that's for sure!!

Stefanos13
05-31-2008, 06:21 AM
Totally agree. Andy does behave like a selfish diva not taking into account that some words may offend. When I was watching his matches in Dubai (where 'fuck' is a truly offensive word to both the local culture and to kids as you say) it became clear how naive and self-involved he is. Is he ever going to receive a penalty? I hope so

Emptyseat
05-31-2008, 07:34 AM
Is he ever going to receive a penalty? I hope so

I think all they get is a code violation. And I'm not sure at what point in the match the umpire decides to do so. :mad:

Machiavelli
05-31-2008, 07:36 AM
Goran did the same thing in croatian, but with much more style....

:worship:

BaggyGreen92
05-31-2008, 07:38 AM
Its gotta be really hard for televisers to censor coarse langauge. It is really damaging to the sport. Where's the spotsmanship that used to be in tennis?

Emptyseat
05-31-2008, 07:43 AM
Its gotta be really hard for televisers to censor coarse langauge. It is really damaging to the sport. Where's the spotsmanship that used to be in tennis?

That's true! ESPN seems to do a good job of it, as they mute the sound or direct to a different camera when they sense the heat. The TENNIS CHANNEL (which I love as there are no commercials) shows every second of the action. I personally enjoy watching players get frustrated, as I think it shows a different side of them: how they handle themselves during tough times, and how they handle pressure. However, taking my kid to a tennis game when Murray or Mischa are playing, no way Jose.

Stefanos13
05-31-2008, 07:54 AM
I think all they get is a code violation. And I'm not sure at what point in the match the umpire decides to do so. :mad:
Hopefully at match point :)

Petrovic
05-31-2008, 09:03 AM
I think its a part of sport.
I have no probs with it !

Herdwick
05-31-2008, 09:12 AM
Do love the idea that kids/teenagers need to be shielded from choice language. If you've watched UK TV or been on British public transport recently you have to accept you're assaulted from all sides with F*** & C*** and it's invariably schoolkids/teenagers. It's the older people I always feel sorry for - they do retain the capacity to be shocked.

l_mac
05-31-2008, 09:55 AM
Doesn't really bother me, I must admit.

Chiseller
05-31-2008, 10:06 AM
You can't protect kids from all the bad things in the world. That's such a naive thinking.
As long as a player is not insulting someone besides himself, I don't see a problem.

bjurra
05-31-2008, 11:05 AM
I dont think players should be penalized for bad language as long as they dont direct it towards anyone else but themselves. The notion that ballboys and kids watching could be hurt in any way is simply ridiculous. Neither Andy nor Goran are "hurting the sport".

Allez
05-31-2008, 11:14 AM
Lol at the idea of "protecting" teenagers from bad language. I don't know where you're from, but bad language is a teen culture here. Also bad language is entirely subjective.

Jelena
05-31-2008, 11:18 AM
I think it depends on several things. There are situations when you as a player simply get frustrated because of how things go on the court. Sometimes you simply need to get it out with a loud "F***". But mostly it's done with it then. Then there are situations when a player is completely frustrated with the way he plays. At those situations you tend to insult yourself (Schüttler is one of the best examples for that, he tends to destroy himself, when things don't go his way). I don't think that in those situations a code violation is really needed. But when someone is swearing about everything and nothing, insulting opponent, judges, referees and/or ballkids a player should be get a code violation. On the other side the ball kids aren't so small that they never heard the word "F***", I think that they can judge how it was meant.

bjurra
05-31-2008, 11:20 AM
Well put, Jelena. Now please lose against Dominika.

Sunset of Age
05-31-2008, 11:21 AM
You can't protect kids from all the bad things in the world. That's such a naive thinking.
As long as a player is not insulting someone besides himself, I don't see a problem.

That's the point I think. As long as it's merely an outing of frustration with himself, no problem. Things get different for me when players start bickering at each other, or at the umpire (while that can even be very funny, as for instance JMac - numerous occasions - and Roger F. - Wimbly 2007 - showed so well...)

Protecting kids from bad language? Do that at home, it's the only place where it might work... :rolleyes:

Andre♥
05-31-2008, 11:35 AM
We hear bad language everyday and I gotta say most of the times we heard it on a tennis court, they are actually in funny moments.

Protecting children? WTF? They hear bad language at school everyday! Unless they live under a rock or hide themselves on the skirts of grandma, they know all the bad words.

Henry Chinaski
05-31-2008, 11:41 AM
Teenagers are too busy ****** and murdering prostitutes on GTA to be influenced by someone swearing.

Snoo Foo
05-31-2008, 11:45 AM
Won't somebody please think of the children?

finishingmove
05-31-2008, 11:47 AM
I was watching the Murray and Almagro match yesterday. There was a photo shot with Murray and 2 ball boys in the background where Murray yelled out FUCK really loud. Throughout the match, you could hear Murray talk to himself and say some really obscene words. Now I myself am a tennis player and realize that frustration is a big part of this game, but should this kind of language be tolerated on the courts where most ball boys are teenagers? What example does that set for them? Youzhny is another hothead who im sure curses in Russian, so not many folks can understand him anyways. However, something needs to be done about this! I wouldn't let my kid be a ball boy during Andy's matches that's for sure!!

Every kid knows the F word , we're living in the 21st century. If u had tried to argument this based on the effect on the child's mental health then u might've had half an argument.This way I hardly see any problem, especially since u used Murray as an example , who's a laughable clown , and that's far from being someone intimidating.

Andre♥
05-31-2008, 11:51 AM
Won't somebody please think of the children?

The children that hear bad language everyday at school? No.

Children should know everything and not get overprotected. Bad language doesn't hurt anyone. Ignorance does.

Tennis-Engineer
05-31-2008, 11:51 AM
I don't understand why everyone gets angry, usually says " F*** " :confused: There are a lot of words that can be said in those anger moments.Tennis Player's Unforced error has nothing to do with "F***" !

Henry Chinaski
05-31-2008, 12:00 PM
Swearing is therapeutic. That's scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it but it's a a scientific fact.

scarecrows
05-31-2008, 12:06 PM
Won't somebody please think of the children?

:hatoff:
only us good Simpsons connoisseurs can get this ;)

scoobs
05-31-2008, 12:07 PM
If Andy had any sense he'd swear in an obscure language so nobody knows or cares.

I don't much like it and frankly, he gets away with murder sometimes, but I don't see why he should be held up as an example when Nadal turns the air blue in Spanish, Ivanisevic used to do it in Croatian etc etc and yet if the umpire doesn't know the curse words in other languages they can't do anything, but they know all the English ones.

I wish Andy would tone it down though - I think it's a shame people feel they can't take their young kids to see him play because he may teach them a bunch of new fun words.

Henry Chinaski
05-31-2008, 12:09 PM
I wish Andy would tone it down though - I think it's a shame people feel they can't take their young kids to see him play because he may teach them a bunch of new fun words.

Anyone that lame is doing more damage to their kids through their own lameness than a bit of swearing would do.

scoobs
05-31-2008, 12:12 PM
Anyone that lame is doing more damage to their kids through their own lameness than a bit of swearing would do.
I'm a faggot and don't have kids and never will have kids so I'm not really licensed to comment on that subject.

I do think it's a bit of a shame though - Andy gets on well with kids and they generally love to see him play. But his pottymouth puts the parents off.

Henry Chinaski
05-31-2008, 12:14 PM
Kids swearing is cute anyway. That's not even in dispute.. If I ever have a son the first phrase I'm going to teach him is "Go fuck yourself Mum"

michellej
05-31-2008, 12:32 PM
Do love the idea that kids/teenagers need to be shielded from choice language. If you've watched UK TV or been on British public transport recently you have to accept you're assaulted from all sides with F*** & C*** and it's invariably schoolkids/teenagers. It's the older people I always feel sorry for - they do retain the capacity to be shocked.


School kids all go to school, often the cesspool of bad language. They hear it, but can choose not to use it.

And I don't think older people have any particular capacity for being shocked. "Been there, done that" in most cases.

groundstroke
05-31-2008, 12:41 PM
Should grunting be allowed on courts? If not, BAN SHARAPOVA!!

Forehander
05-31-2008, 01:37 PM
I just say **** yeah all the time when I win.

dam0dred
05-31-2008, 01:41 PM
I'm sure Ferrer wishes it was. He just got a point penalty in the Hewitt match for swearing repeatedly.

Johnny Groove
05-31-2008, 01:41 PM
Do love the idea that kids/teenagers need to be shielded from choice language. If you've watched UK TV or been on British public transport recently you have to accept you're assaulted from all sides with F*** & C*** and it's invariably schoolkids/teenagers. It's the older people I always feel sorry for - they do retain the capacity to be shocked.

Protecting teens from bad language? :lol:

If i was a parent , I'd be over the moon if the only thing i had to worry about was my son cursing :lol:

tennisfan444
05-31-2008, 01:46 PM
You can't protect kids from all the bad things in the world. That's such a naive thinking.
As long as a player is not insulting someone besides himself, I don't see a problem.

I totally agree!!! With all the players speaking different languages, it would be impossible.

arm
05-31-2008, 01:54 PM
:eek: Do you actulaly believe it should be allowed? I am surprised with some posts.. :eek: It's not only because of the children, but because of everyone...

Honestly I don't even know what to say :shrug: It's just such a strange idea... I can't even imagine if it was tolerated...

:eek:

Sunset of Age
05-31-2008, 02:15 PM
:eek: Do you actulaly believe it should be allowed? I am surprised with some posts.. :eek: It's not only because of the children, but because of everyone...

Honestly I don't even know what to say :shrug: It's just such a strange idea... I can't even imagine if it as tolrated...

:eek:

It's not a question whether it should be 'allowed' I think... because it would be most difficult to enforce a particular rule on cursing at all. I mean, do you understand cursing in Russian? Slovakian?
Let alone the fact that the umpires are barely able to enforce the rules regarding time-wasting etc.... a rule that forbids cursing would be just another 'Paper Rule'.

arm
05-31-2008, 02:31 PM
It's not a question whether it should be 'allowed' I think... because it would be most difficult to enforce a particular rule on cursing at all. I mean, do you understand cursing in Russian? Slovakian?
Let alone the fact that the umpires are barely able to enforce the rules regarding time-wasting etc.... a rule that forbids cursing would be just another 'Paper Rule'.

I understand your point. Still, I don't think it should be "tolerated".

But, you know, it's just my opinion. :)

smitty8
05-31-2008, 02:34 PM
Oh yeah, the teenagers probably know all the bad words by now, but it's the little kids who are the ones I'm concerned about. However, most kids will know the words from their friends and family members before they hear it at a tennis match. One of my grandmas (RIP) cursed like a sailor, my other one says the occasional "shit" which is quite funny to hear. I learned a bunch of curse words from my father. The funniest thing of all was to hear my 2 year old brother yell at me to "get my ass downstairs", imitating my father. The occasional obscenity on a tennis court doesn't bother me too much.

rhinooooo
05-31-2008, 02:42 PM
Swearing is therapeutic. That's scientific fact. There's no real evidence for it but it's a a scientific fact.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wEolSjlcqng

Blue Heart24
05-31-2008, 02:42 PM
Yes.Matches can be so frustrating sometimes,it's completely natural players get angry sometimes.

yellowboy906
05-31-2008, 02:43 PM
i've heard kids around 12,13 years old curse out f word 3, 4 times in a sentence. for example, i need to fucking go to church with my fucking mom this fucking sunday. i have no problem with murray swearing on court. actually, i don't like it when he's quiet. i want to see more fire out of a player.

Jelena
05-31-2008, 02:46 PM
Oh yeah, the teenagers probably know all the bad words by now, but it's the little kids who are the ones I'm concerned about. However, most kids will know the words from their friends and family members before they hear it at a tennis match. One of my grandmas (RIP) cursed like a sailor, my other one says the occasional "shit" which is quite funny to hear. I learned a bunch of curse words from my father. The funniest thing of all was to hear my 2 year old brother yell at me to "get my ass downstairs", imitating my father. The occasional obscenity on a tennis court doesn't bother me too much.
do you know when I called my mum for the first time a "stupid cow"? When I just entered the kindergarten. And this is the point. The little little kids learn swearings not really by sitting in front of tv and listening to Andy Murray swearing about the whole world, but they learn it from their group mates in kindergarten.

GugaF1
05-31-2008, 02:49 PM
In my view, the whole point of sports is to be able to let it out. A way to spend energy in a healthy way, to fight without really fighting to have a "war" without really have a war....if that makes any sense. I don't see the point of repressing it. Sometimes we need to express things even if is through cursing and is better to let it out in sports where is more natural then in other places..

arm
05-31-2008, 02:49 PM
do you know when I called my mum for the first time a "stupid cow"? When I just entered the kindergarten. And this is the point. The little little kids learn swearings not really by sitting in front of tv and listening to Andy Murray swearing about the whole world, but they learn it from their group mates in kindergarten.

Does that mean that, as they are exposed to bad language in kindergarten, there's no point in trying to protect him from it?

Jelena
05-31-2008, 02:54 PM
Does that mean that, as they are exposed to bad language in kindergarten, there's no point in trying to protect him from it?
As I said in one of my earlier posts, the ballkids are mostly teenies, who can judge how a swearing is meant. Usually they play tennis themselves, so they know also to follow a match and can see, what the situation is like when a player starts to swear.

Sunset of Age
05-31-2008, 02:55 PM
Does that mean that, as they are exposed to bad language in kindergarten, there's no point in trying to protect him from it?

Trying to 'protect' them from something that's around nearly everywhere is futile I think. The only thing parents can do is to try to learn their kids to not lower themselves to the level of others...

arm
05-31-2008, 03:00 PM
Trying to 'protect' them from something that's around nearly everywhere is futile I think. The only thing parents can do is to try to learn their kids to not lower themselves to the level of others...

It's not as easy as it seems. The environment the children live in influences their behaviour.

Anyway, what do I know about parenthood or education? :shrug:

I stick with my opinion, but I do accept and understand yours. :)

Neely
05-31-2008, 06:13 PM
I'm really glad that some people in the thread put it in perspective because I was close to laugh out loud in front of my computer screen as I read something like "protect the balls kids from the word fuc*". Most kids in almost all countries hear much worse things if they only enter the school bus in the morning or switch on the TV, let alone if they are attending a French school ;)

So I thought this opening post was a bit exaggerated.

As for the question itself. I would allow most swearing out of frustration as it is part of the game IMO, and if it a somewhat tolerable word: of course you shouldn't say things really nobody wants to ear. In other sports it's much worse and we don't need to go crazy if a few tennis players are a bit louder and say the f-word. However, it shouldn't be too much and not directed towards the opponent.

And also thanks for mentioning in this thread that other players are doing it also, just with the big difference that it happens in a language hardly anybody understands ;)

Jadranka
05-31-2008, 06:17 PM
Yes.Matches can be so frustrating sometimes,it's completely natural players get angry sometimes.

Yes, like Mario today :haha:

**** ti materina :o

Henry Chinaski
05-31-2008, 06:18 PM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wEolSjlcqng

you got the reference.

spotter's badge for you my friend.

groundstroke
05-31-2008, 06:21 PM
Mario did show his anger a bit today against Federer. :o

Henry Chinaski
05-31-2008, 06:22 PM
yeah he crane kicked the umpire at the end.

decrepitude
05-31-2008, 07:22 PM
As a member of the older generation, I stopped being shocked by the f-word ten or fifteen years ago, just because it was so common. Travelling to work I heard it all the time from schoolkids - it didn't make me start to use it. Now you can hardly switch on the TV without being bombarded with it, particularly in the American films my husband likes to watch (and he doesn't swear at all).

It doesn't bother me at all if just used to vent frustration. It does bother me when used against the opposition (like Roddick v Tsonga last year) or linespeople.

I think Andy Murray should learn to swear in Gaelic. . .

Mane
05-31-2008, 09:27 PM
I was watching the Murray and Almagro match yesterday. There was a photo shot with Murray and 2 ball boys in the background where Murray yelled out FUCK really loud. Throughout the match, you could hear Murray talk to himself and say some really obscene words. Now I myself am a tennis player and realize that frustration is a big part of this game, but should this kind of language be tolerated on the courts where most ball boys are teenagers? What example does that set for them? Youzhny is another hothead who im sure curses in Russian, so not many folks can understand him anyways. However, something needs to be done about this! I wouldn't let my kid be a ball boy during Andy's matches that's for sure!!

I'm an umpire and I have experience with that. I think it should be tolerated if someone curses in general and not very loudy. I give code violation to a player because he was cursing very loudy. In other sports it's much worse and a players are very rude.

Manon
05-31-2008, 09:33 PM
Mario did show his anger a bit today against Federer. :o

You don't know Croatian so...he showed just like Novak yesterday. The same words (similar languages).

nolop
05-31-2008, 09:37 PM
Should bad language be tolerated on the courts??

It is not tolerated now.

Clydey
05-31-2008, 09:43 PM
They are just words. Who gives a shit? Is it more acceptable for someone to swear in Croatian? Is that equally "unsporting"?

I'm tired of people whining about language. What's so offensive about stringing together letters in a particular order? If you are really that sensitive, do me a favour and fuck off to join a convent.

"Ohhhh, he used the 'F' word!!!" Idiots.

Those who wish to censor language are insular, overly sensitive morons. Give me one good reason why language should be censored. Why is "fuck" a more offensive word than, say, "biscuit"?

Manon
05-31-2008, 10:18 PM
They are just words. Who gives a shit? Is it more acceptable for someone to swear in Croatian? Is that equally "unsporting"?

I'm tired of people whining about language. What's so offensive about stringing together letters in a particular order? If you are really that sensitive, do me a favour and fuck off to join a convent.

"Ohhhh, he used the 'F' word!!!" Idiots.

Those who wish to censor language are insular, overly sensitive morons. Give me one good reason why language should be censored. Why is "fuck" a more offensive word than, say, "biscuit"?

Biscuitly stunning post.

Corey Feldman
05-31-2008, 10:20 PM
Clydey, Biscuit Off ;)

Chiseller
05-31-2008, 10:25 PM
I'm an umpire and I have experience with that.

I thought you are a linesman or still didn't get the difference? :lol:

Mateya
05-31-2008, 10:30 PM
Clydey, Biscuit Off ;)

Who gives a biscuit?
:lol:

I dont care if players curse, it's part of the game, especially with people like Murray :tape:. However, it is more apropriate to behave nicely and be quiet. :angel:

JediFed
05-31-2008, 10:44 PM
I used to play soccer once, funny story. I was a fullback, and the all-star forward I was guarding had a horrible game. I managed to get in his head, always bumping into him, etc, nothing hard, just enough nudges so he knew where I was.

He got red carded later in the game for swearing at me after one of the parents complained on the sidelines about the foul language.

Tennis is a bit different it's an individual game, but there are better ways to vent then to turn the sky purple. I do tend to prefer the spanish curses myself tho, they are very powerful.

ASP0315
06-01-2008, 12:47 AM
Murray is a joke.
I can't believe why this pampered, overhyped jerk is still on the tour and gets away with use of obscene langauge.
Same thing with roddick. Another hyped up player who always gets preferential treatment and get away with obscene language and gestures.
Many players getting with thier actions on court.(especially if you are popular like roddick you will get a free pass and allowed to do anything you like including making gestures and cursing at the oppents/ umpires.)

ATP is too soft. no wonder tennis it rated so low in many countries. Even most of media in the US ignores tennis.

Even most If the players uses obscene language in any other sport they will be fined or suspended.

GlennMirnyi
06-01-2008, 12:52 AM
Murray is a joke.
I can't believe why this pampered, overhyped jerk is still on the tour and gets away with use of obscene langauge.
Same thing with roddick. Another hyped up player who always gets preferential treatment and get away with obscene language and gestures.
Many players getting with thier actions on court.(especially if you are popular like roddick you will get a free pass and allowed to do anything you like including making gestures and cursing at the oppents/ umpires.)

ATP is too soft. no wonder tennis it rated so low in many countries. Even most of media in the US ignores tennis.

Even most If the players uses obscene language in any other sport they will be fined or suspended.

Great post. :worship:

Emptyseat
06-01-2008, 02:11 AM
Even most If the players uses obscene language in any other sport they will be fined or suspended.

There's a TON of cursing that goes in American football and basketball. However, its nearly impossible for the crowd to hear it especially in football. Many people here feel that cursing is OK and they don't see a problem with it for various reasons. I agree with one reason mostly, that it would be extremely difficult to understand curse words in the different languages with the diversity in the league, and thus, advocate the rules. This is a fragile situation. However, it is ridiculous to assert that just because bad language is around the teenagers makes it OK for them to be further exposed to it. I mean kids here in the US know all about marijuana and alot of them engage in it. Does that mean its ok for their parents to allow them to smoke it in the house, or smoke themselves in front of them? And no, not ALL the kids are like what some of you are making them out to be. It is not about 'protecting them from the dangerous vices of this evil world', but more about teaching them the proper etiquette on how to go about communicating and handling themselves.

Clydey
06-01-2008, 02:12 AM
Clydey, Biscuit Off ;)

Oh dear, that'll catch on as a result of this thread :D

Jelena
06-01-2008, 06:44 AM
I used to play soccer once, funny story. I was a fullback, and the all-star forward I was guarding had a horrible game. I managed to get in his head, always bumping into him, etc, nothing hard, just enough nudges so he knew where I was.

He got red carded later in the game for swearing at me after one of the parents complained on the sidelines about the foul language.

Tennis is a bit different it's an individual game, but there are better ways to vent then to turn the sky purple. I do tend to prefer the spanish curses myself tho, they are very powerful.
Did you play soccer (European football) or American football? :scratch: