What the f*** is going on with Federer's backhand? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What the f*** is going on with Federer's backhand?

groundstroke
05-29-2008, 10:19 PM
Even you one-handed backhand haters or just general Federer haters cannot deny there was a point where his backhand was great (a few years ago!), what the hell has happened to it?
He's still able to execute amazing passing shots and amazing volleys but general the backhand shot is pathetic now, had it been stronger he would have beaten Nadal on clay soo many more times?

Jaap
05-29-2008, 10:20 PM
His backhand has always been pathetic. Even Karlovic's is better.

Corey Feldman
05-29-2008, 10:21 PM
looks a bit more dodgy thesedays doesnt it

i think its his crappier movement - he's not in as good a position as the last few years and his opponents are really abusing it more and more

just looks very awkward for him at times to keep hitting them and he shanks them allover the city when it gets to 4-4 , 5-5 30-30 type scenario's :o

elessar
05-29-2008, 10:22 PM
:spit:

Why now :awww:

scoobs
05-29-2008, 10:22 PM
It's erratic. It's always been fairly erratic. These days it's more erratic because either in his movement or his stroke production or shot choice, he's not quite as sharp as he was in 2004-2007 at the moment unless he gets right into the zone.

Much as I love Roger, people who think he has the best one handed backhand the game has seen are bonkers. When he's playing well he can hurt with it but at other times it can be a liability. There are several active players who have had less overall success than Roger who have better one handed backhands technically.

groundstroke
05-29-2008, 10:24 PM
His backhand has always been pathetic. Even Karlovic's is better.
No way, a few years ago it was decent for the tour, while it's never been better than Kuerten's or Nalby's (who is really inconsistent), he could make some jaw-dropping shots with that backhand. I remember watching a few of his matches in 2005/6 where it was just simply amazing

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:25 PM
His backhand was never good. The topspin backhand was always a loopy, short shot.

That's why leng jai has that list in his signature. That a bunch of morons can't realise that.

Clay Death
05-29-2008, 10:26 PM
looks a bit more dodgy thesedays doesnt it

i think its his crappier movement - he's not in as good a position as the last few years and his opponents are really abusing it more and more

spot on. i would just add that a 1 hander just has to be too precise. too many variable to account for and accordingly, less reliable than a 2 hander.

his greatest limitation off that wing is that he cannot really attack or finish the point. quite often he is forced to just get the ball back. on clay, he is being asked to hit that backhand repeatedly and its simply too difficult a stroke to hold up on sustained basis.

as you have suggested, his ridiculous movement gave him the time before to execute his options but now that movement is on the decline and it shows at the pump.

groundstroke
05-29-2008, 10:28 PM
His backhand was never good. The topspin backhand was always a loopy, short shot.

That's why leng jai has that list in his signature. That a bunch of morons can't realise that.
Not always a shitty shot, it used to be decent.

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:28 PM
Not always a shitty shot, it used to be decent.

Always broke under pressure.

Jaap
05-29-2008, 10:28 PM
No way, a few years ago it was decent for the tour, while it's never been better than Kuerten's or Nalby's (who is really inconsistent), he could make some jaw-dropping shots with that backhand. I remember watching a few of his matches in 2005/6 where it was just simply amazing

Its a good passing shot but not so good rallying one. It also doesn't stand up to pressure.

scoobs
05-29-2008, 10:29 PM
Its a good passing shot but not so good rallying one. It also doesn't stand up to pressure.
What Federer used to be better at doing than he is now is keeping the rallies on his terms and keeping the play onto his forehand much more.

groundstroke
05-29-2008, 10:29 PM
spot on. i would just add that a 1 hander just has to be too precise. too many variable to account for and accordingly, less reliable than a 2 hander.

his greatest limitation off that wing is that he cannot really attack or finish the point. quite often he is forced to just get the ball back. on clay, he is being asked to hit that backhand repeatedly and its simply too difficult a stroke to hold up on sustained basis.

as you have suggested, his ridiculous movement gave him the time before to execute his options but now that movement is on the decline and it shows at the pump.
But why can he not attack? I've seen other 1handers do it on amateur and professional level. :(

Clay Death
05-29-2008, 10:31 PM
Even you one-handed backhand haters or just general Federer haters cannot deny there was a point where his backhand was amazing (a few years ago!), what the hell has happened to it?
He's still able to execute amazing passing shots and amazing volleys but general the backhand shot is pathetic now, had it been stronger he would have beaten Nadal on clay soo many more times?


i guess you have learned nothing so far. what is it like to wander in a round, dark room with blindfolds on looking for a black cat that doesnt exist?

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:32 PM
What Federer used to be better at doing than he is now is keeping the rallies on his terms and keeping the play onto his forehand much more.

There was a time when Federer was less stubborn on court and used more his great slice. ;)

scoobs
05-29-2008, 10:34 PM
Also true. Though he has rarely used the slice as aggressively as I would like - really knife it through the court.

groundstroke
05-29-2008, 10:34 PM
i guess you have learned nothing so far. what is it like to wander in a round, dark room with blindfolds on looking for a black cat that doesnt exist?
Please don't get into this 1 hander/2 hander argument again. #1 men's and #1 women's (just retired, though) ranked players both have one handed backhands and have won many GS's.
Seriously his backhand is just amateur level now, it's a disgrace to see a great player like him with a stroke like that. Nadal keeps on targeting that shot on clay where it is hard to pull of again and again.

Chiseller
05-29-2008, 10:37 PM
Certainly that was because he used to slice them back more often. I wouldn't say his backhand is weaker than last year, on clay it has always been exposed the most.

Chiseller
05-29-2008, 10:37 PM
It's all on his stubborn idea that he can't show he has a "weak" side.

Exactly.

scoobs
05-29-2008, 10:39 PM
Foolish. Sampras used to slice the backhand to all hell and nobody said it was a weakness.

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:43 PM
Foolish. Sampras used to slice the backhand to all hell and nobody said it was a weakness.

Slicing backhands isn't a weakness in itself. It's Federer who can't accept (to himself) that his topspin backhand isn't up there. Sampras knew much better than Federer his own weaknesses.

marcRD
05-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Federer doesnt use the slice on clay, but I think he will start using it again on grass. On clay the slice is completely worthless, specialy if he wants to beat Nadal.

His backhand is getting worse because of his movement and on clay where he needs to generate own pace on the backhand it really looks alot worse. When he is able to use the pace of the opponent with his backhand it is alot more effective.

marcRD
05-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Slicing backhands isn't a weakness in itself. It's Federer who can't accept (to himself) that his topspin backhand isn't up there. Sampras knew much better than Federer his own weaknesses.

Sampras with his slice backhand was a mug on clay, Federer knows that the slice is a worthless shot on clay.

scoobs
05-29-2008, 10:47 PM
I don't agree in the least. I think an attacking slice on clay is very effective but it has to be an attacking slice. You can't just Fernando Gonzalez bunt it back to a floaty length with no pace.

If you really knife through the ball with pace so it comes through the court very low and fast, it's very hard for any player to attack off that.

Chiseller
05-29-2008, 10:50 PM
Foolish. Sampras used to slice the backhand to all hell and nobody said it was a weakness.

Federer is probably one of the most stubborn players I've ever seen. It not for nothing that he often tries to dictate enemies game on themselves.
AO semi, didn't accept that today he can't outhit him with the forehand. Later he admitted adjusting his game too late.

Slice works on clay ofc but some people can cope with it quite good. Querrey, for example, had no clue what to do with it though.

marcRD
05-29-2008, 10:51 PM
I don't agree in the least. I think an attacking slice on clay is very effective but it has to be an attacking slice. You can't just Fernando Gonzalez bunt it back to a floaty length with no pace.

If you really knife through the ball with pace so it comes through the court very low and fast, it's very hard for any player to attack off that.

Clay bounces higher and slower so the slice becomes both slow and high up for the opponent to attack. It is possible to use an attacking slice on clay, but it is more difficult than on hardcourt or grass.

Defensive slice is almost completely worth less, it just jumps up still on the air giving the opponent the chanse to kill the point without difficulties.

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:51 PM
Sampras with his slice backhand was a mug on clay, Federer knows that the slice is a worthless shot on clay.

Bullshit. Sanchez played 100% sliced backhands, won 13 titles on clay and made the QFs in the FO.

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:53 PM
Clay bounces higher and slower so the slice becomes both slow and high up for the opponent to attack. It is possible to use an attacking slice on clay, but it is more difficult than on hardcourt or grass.

Defensive slice is almost completely worth less, it just jumps up still on the air giving the opponent the chanse to kill the point without difficulties.

The slice doesn't bounce, it skids.

Have you ever held a racket?

marcRD
05-29-2008, 10:54 PM
Bullshit. Sanchez played 100% sliced backhands, won 13 titles on clay and made the QFs in the FO.

So what? Does only proof there are exceptions and he wasnt as succesfull as Federer on clay anyway. Watch great claycourters like Guga, Corretja, Costa and company. They never use the slice on clay.

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:56 PM
So what? Does only proof there are exceptions and he wasnt as succesfull as Federer on clay anyway. Watch great claycourters like Guga, Corretja, Costa and company. They never use the slice on clay.

Corretja never used the slice? In which world? :haha:

marcRD
05-29-2008, 10:56 PM
The slice doesn't bounce, it skids.

Have you ever held a racket?

On clay it almost bounces, specialy the defensive slice. Yes I have held up a raquet.

GlennMirnyi
05-29-2008, 10:58 PM
On clay it almost bounces, specialy the defensive slice. Yes I have held up a raquet.

There's no "almost bouncing". If a slice is done the correct way it doesn't bounce.

rofe
05-29-2008, 11:02 PM
The knifing backhand is not effective against Nadal on clay. There are sound reasons why Fed doesn't use that shot on clay (or at least tries to avoid it):

1) His knifing backhand is most effective when it goes cc and guess what, Nadal's FH motion goes low to high so scooping that low ball is very easy for him and changes the rally immediately from neutral to offense in Nadal's favor.

2) The backspin on the ball from the slice makes it sit up more on a clay court so it is fairly easy for the rally to get out of control.

Lets face it, his drive BH will never be as effective as say the "swiss #1" because he uses a very open stance that makes his arm come across his body almost parallel to the net at the contact point. This allows for decent control but insufficient power. Also, this makes his stance ineffective against a hard hit shot or (as in Nadal's case) one with lots of topspin. The main reason that his BH is even semi-decent is because of the amount of wrist he uses in his shots to make up for that deficiency.

marcRD
05-29-2008, 11:02 PM
There's no "almost bouncing". If a slice is done the correct way it doesn't bounce.

You dont need to be a genius to figure out that the backhand is less effective on clay than hardcourt or grass. Rules are simple, the backhand slice needs to stay low and slid really fast to be effective. On clay it becomes alot more difficult to do that effect and that is why no champion of Roland Garros has been keen to using the sliced backhand.

It is like moonballing on grass, not as effective as on clay.

marcRD
05-29-2008, 11:05 PM
The knifing backhand is not effective against Nadal on clay. There are sound reasons why Fed doesn't use that shot on clay (or at least tries to avoid it):

1) His knifing backhand is most effective when it goes cc and guess what, Nadal's FH motion goes low to high so scooping that low ball is very easy for him and changes the rally immediately from neutral to offense in Nadal's favor.

2) The backspin on the ball from the slice makes it sit up more on a clay court so it is fairly easy for the rally to get out of control.

Lets face it, his drive BH will never be as effective as say the "swiss #1" because he uses a very open stance that makes his arm come across his body almost parallel to the net at the contact point. This allows for decent control but insufficient power. Also, this makes his stance ineffective against a hard hit shot or (as in Nadal's case) one with lots of topspin. The main reason that his BH is even semi-decent is because of the amount of wrist he uses in his shots to make up for that deficiency.

Exactly, note that against some opponents like Davydenko on clay Federer still uses the slice to kill Davys rythm. It is all about adapting and Federer knows the slice is not an answer against Nadal.

scoobs
05-29-2008, 11:06 PM
Nobody is trying to deny that the slice is less effective on clay and that if hit badly it will leave a player vulnerable in the rally.

My point is, it's not something that should be entirely abandoned either - it can be used, sparingly, at appropriate times to give the player a different look, and it doesn't always have to go crosscourt.

Byrd
05-29-2008, 11:34 PM
A better question is 'what has happened to Federer's on the run forehand', this shot is abysmal at best, it always ends up short and in the middle of the court, watch the match today for proof.

sammy01
05-29-2008, 11:42 PM
i always feel he just cant hit the dtl backhand, he pulls 1 off now and again and the commentators cum all over themselves, without thinking how many winners novak or nalbandian say hit dtl with there backhands. to me its a huge weakness of his as he dosen't even get great width when hitting crosscourt with it, also 95% of his backhand passes go crosscourt because rushed he just cant hit the dtl backhand. his backhand is the reason i feel he wont win the french open, but commentators get all nostalgic over a 1 handed backhand when he started playing so assumed it was amazing to begin with where as its always been a problem for him not just now.

rofe
05-29-2008, 11:43 PM
Nobody is trying to deny that the slice is less effective on clay and that if hit badly it will leave a player vulnerable in the rally.

My point is, it's not something that should be entirely abandoned either - it can be used, sparingly, at appropriate times to give the player a different look, and it doesn't always have to go crosscourt.

Sending it DTL is even worse since Nadal's BH is more stable against the slice. All he does is take it early and drive it DTL to Fed's BH and Fed effectively loses his rally advantage.

rofe
05-29-2008, 11:46 PM
A better question is 'what has happened to Federer's on the run forehand', this shot is abysmal at best, it always ends up short and in the middle of the court, watch the match today for proof.

He has had problems with it all of 07 (except for the TMC) so it is obvious that he doesn't have a problem with it when he feels good about his game. His 08 form with respect to that running FH seems to be following a similar pattern.

scoobs
05-29-2008, 11:47 PM
Sending it DTL is even worse since Nadal's BH is more stable against the slice. All he does is take it early and drive it DTL to Fed's BH and Fed effectively loses his rally advantage.
I don't think he has the same natural ability to dig it out though.

I don't think any particular shot is a panacea against Nadal anyway.

You have to be very consistent and all your shots have to be on and all your decisions have to be good.

Byrd
05-29-2008, 11:49 PM
He has had problems with it all of 07 (except for the TMC) so it is obvious that he doesn't have a problem with it when he feels good about his game. His 08 form with respect to that running FH seems to be following a similar pattern.

Yea I guess, its been good in some matches this year, like Nalby in MC.

Federerhingis
05-29-2008, 11:58 PM
Slicing backhands isn't a weakness in itself. It's Federer who can't accept (to himself) that his topspin backhand isn't up there. Sampras knew much better than Federer his own weaknesses.

He does admit on repeated occassions that he's been trying to improve his backhand for ten years now, hence why it's no surprise "implicitly" that it's his weaker shot. ;)

rofe
05-29-2008, 11:58 PM
I don't think he has the same natural ability to dig it out though.

I don't think any particular shot is a panacea against Nadal anyway.

You have to be very consistent and all your shots have to be on and all your decisions have to be good.

He not only has the ability to dig it out but he also takes time away from Fed with his response to the DTL slice.

Basically, Fed's only recourse on clay is to use his topspin BH, try to keep it deep and cut off the angles. He did that fairly well in MC but as it invariably happens against Nadal, going against his natural game of slice takes a lot out of him mentally and he eventually succumbs.

leng jai
05-30-2008, 12:34 AM
This thread suck balls.

Federer's backhand is clearly the greatest single hander of all time.

Toko
05-30-2008, 12:43 AM
This thread suck balls.

Federer's backhand is clearly the greatest single hander of all time.

Clearly. He just decided to shank a bit more shots, to give everyone a chance.

RogerFan82
05-30-2008, 12:47 AM
Fed will take CD's advice and play 2-handed BH against Nadal in the final.

soraya
05-30-2008, 01:08 AM
No way, a few years ago it was decent for the tour, while it's never been better than Kuerten's or Nalby's (who is really inconsistent), he could make some jaw-dropping shots with that backhand. I remember watching a few of his matches in 2005/6 where it was just simply amazing

Wawrinka, Youhzny and of course Kuerten come to mind for the best one hand backhand. Fed's though beautiful when perfectly executed is erratic most of the time. Nalby has one of the prettiest two handed back hand;)

Quadruple Tree
05-30-2008, 01:44 AM
Sampras with his slice backhand was a mug on clay, Federer knows that the slice is a worthless shot on clay.

A guy who beats Muster, Kafelnikov, and Bruguera on clay is a mug now? Damn, this is a tough crowd to please. Do you consider Rafter a mug on grass because he never won Wimbledon?

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 02:30 AM
This thread suck balls.

Federer's backhand is clearly the greatest single hander of all time.


you have 2 clueless trolls (groundstroke and myrni chap) so what do you expect.

his one hander is the best in history. the problem is that times have changed and one handers are fast becoming obsolete. too many variables involved in that stroke. movement, timing, mechanics, and the like must be optimal and totally synchronized in order for it to be effective. and it lacks the power and precision of a 2 hander.

players can buy a little time on clay and are able to hit it well but it does eventually break down under repeated pressure.

knightsky
05-30-2008, 02:33 AM
Federer doesn't have the best one-handed backhand. He just has this amazing wrist that allows him to pull off the occasional unbelievable nobody-else-can-do-that shot that gives the impression of greatness. On clay where the rallies are longer, its simply not reliable enough.

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 02:43 AM
Federer doesn't have the best one-handed backhand. He just has this amazing wrist that allows him to pull off the occasional unbelievable nobody-else-can-do-that shot that gives the impression of greatness. On clay where the rallies are longer, its simply not reliable enough.

who has a better one hander than Fed in the game today? i dont think i have ever seen anybody do more with his one handed backhand than Fed.

leng jai
05-30-2008, 02:44 AM
who has a better one hander than Fed in the game today? i dont think i have ever seen anybody do more with his one handed backhand than Fed.

Haas.

Albop
05-30-2008, 02:45 AM
Cd plus a Backhand Thread=Not good

who has a better one hander than Fed in the game today? i dont think i have ever seen anybody do more with his one handed backhand than Fed.

Tommy haas

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 02:54 AM
Cd plus a Backhand Thread=Not good



Tommy haas

:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

sheeter
05-30-2008, 02:58 AM
Can we not let this degenerate into a one-handed vs. two-handed backhand slug fest thread?

leng jai
05-30-2008, 03:03 AM
No, it will turn into a Haas Vs Federer backhand thread.

sheeter
05-30-2008, 03:04 AM
No, it will turn into a Haas Vs Federer backhand thread.
I'd prefer that over the alternative. :)

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 03:05 AM
Can we not let this degenerate into a one-handed vs. two-handed backhand slug fest thread?

*****mods take note. another incedence of a poster insulting a fellow poster.

********get this right mods and try to fair and just for a change. they always draw first blood. i only defend myself.

now i will be reminding you every single time somebdy feels the urge to take a cheap shot.

rocketassist
05-30-2008, 03:05 AM
Fed's backhand is good when it's on, but it's no Gaudio or Guga.

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 03:07 AM
Fed's backhand is good when it's on, but it's no Gaudio or Guga.


i think he can offer a lot more variety off that wing which is what makes it special.

leng jai
05-30-2008, 03:08 AM
i think he can offer a lot more variety off that wing which is what makes it special.

I am waiting for you to come up with an argument about Federer's backhand being better than Haas'.

rocketassist
05-30-2008, 03:10 AM
i think he can offer a lot more variety off that wing which is what makes it special.

And what variety is this? winner, slice, shank, winner, slice, shank?

Albop
05-30-2008, 03:12 AM
:haha::haha::haha::haha::haha:

Explain yourself please.

Forehander
05-30-2008, 03:27 AM
He's just bored nowadays.\

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 03:33 AM
And what variety is this? winner, slice, shank, winner, slice, shank?


too funny. i think you know the deal. one hander just cant hold up anywhere for sustained basis,let alone on clay where you may be called upon to hit damn near nothing but backhands. you dont want to give Fed too many forehands.

he has the best one hander i have ever seen but, as i have suggested many times, one handers have their limitations even in the hands of the best players in the world. it is difficult at best to drive the ball with a one hander on repeated basis. the arm eventually does get a little fatigued. it has to be hit in the front and the mechanics have to be quite precise. you need just the right weight distribution at exactly the right time/moment. and you need a fair amount of racquet head speed to do some damage with it. it is just too hard to keep hitting it just right time and again.

escude mentioned that Fed faces slightly diminished movement now and it may be affecting his preparation. the point is well made. there are simply too many variables involved in a one hander to keep hitting it well for 2-3 hours or longer as it may be the case on clay.

it is not that Fed has a weak backhand but just that it has its limitations which clay magnifies. now on hard courts, Djokovic punished his backhand wing and robbed him of time at the Australian Open. so once again, the preparation needed with one hander is critical and the way the ball is being hit today, one hander is at a huge disadvantage.

also Fed`s game is so complete and his serve and his forehand are so damn big that we often tend to think that he has a weak backhand. as good as Fed`s backhand is, Djokovic has a better and a more effective backhand. and it doesnt break down and he can drive it all day long.

leng jai
05-30-2008, 03:36 AM
I am waiting for you to come up with an argument about Federer's backhand being better than Haas'.

Yawn.

RagingLamb
05-30-2008, 03:48 AM
*****mods take note. another incedence of a poster insulting a fellow poster.

********get this right mods and try to fair and just for a change. they always draw first blood. i only defend myself.

now i will be reminding you every single time somebdy feels the urge to take a cheap shot.

he said can we let this thread not degenerate (verb) into another one-handed vs. two-handed backhand slug fest thread.

he wasn't calling you a degenerate.

finishingmove
05-30-2008, 03:53 AM
I am waiting for you to come up with an argument about Federer's backhand being better than Haas'.

...

he has the best one hander i have ever seen

...

if he has whitnessed it , then no discussion is necessary.

personally i'll agree with what alot of people already mentioned , that is that fed's backhand was never anything special and is now suffering because fed is no longer the ninja mover he was

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 04:05 AM
he said can we let this thread not degenerate (verb) into another one-handed vs. two-handed backhand slug fest thread.

he wasn't calling you a degenerate.


my mistake then. that said, that mirnyi fellow should have been given an infraction to be fair. he did draw first blood and he has called several people idiots here time and again.


in any case, i am finished with your brand of justice. i will see if it gets better here for a week or so. if not, i am gone. i dont need the abuse and i dont need mods to come after me when its the others who do the attacking.

there are plenty of forums who want and need my services. all i do is promote discussions and what i get in return is attacks.

sykotique
05-30-2008, 04:12 AM
Roger's backhand does have a lot of variety, but not much consistency. He uses a very wristy style, so it's quite usual to see the odd nice dipping passing shot, a clever whip cross court, a knifing slice, these are things he is good at. His topspin backhand and drive backhand down the line however are very weak in terms of generating pace and it's also because he is very wristy - he generally tries to flick the ball, rather than get behind in and power through it.


It's quite amazing to sometimes see Federer come up on the dead run with a dipping backhand cross court that foils his opponents or one of those nasty low slices when he's out of position that makes volleying impossible, but most of those shots occur when he is at full stretch and has to rely solely on his wrist work, with his opponent providing the pace - in backhand to backhand rallies, the shot breaks down progressively, getting shorter or short after which point he usually either shanks it a million miles or comes up with his one in a million backhand down the lines which are so pretty because of the amount of wrist in the shot and not the actual technique behind it.


Haas' backhand is beautiful and consistent, but not powerful enough to cause anyone trouble these days, simply because Tommy's game relies a lot on touch and not on power. Wawrinka is good too, but he can shank them when he is ready, only recently has he been recently consistent, although his forehand is obviously much weaker, which generally makes his backhand look better. I might get some stick for this, but I think Robredo has one of the better backhands to rally with, just in terms of consistency and depth. He doesn't hit the hardest, but he gets well behind it - partially due to the fact that he is an excellent mover - and he gets it deep with regularity, although he avoids the lines as much as possible for the most part.

Action Jackson
05-30-2008, 04:16 AM
Nothing, it's the greatest single hander of all time.

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 04:25 AM
Roger's backhand does have a lot of variety, but not much consistency. He uses a very wristy style, so it's quite usual to see the odd nice dipping passing shot, a clever whip cross court, a knifing slice, these are things he is good at. His topspin backhand and drive backhand down the line however are very weak in terms of generating pace and it's also because he is very wristy - he generally tries to flick the ball, rather than get behind in and power through it.


It's quite amazing to sometimes see Federer come up on the dead run with a dipping backhand cross court that foils his opponents or one of those nasty low slices when he's out of position that makes volleying impossible, but most of those shots occur when he is at full stretch and has to rely solely on his wrist work, with his opponent providing the pace - in backhand to backhand rallies, the shot breaks down progressively, getting shorter or short after which point he usually either shanks it a million miles or comes up with his one in a million backhand down the lines which are so pretty because of the amount of wrist in the shot and not the actual technique behind it.


Haas' backhand is beautiful and consistent, but not powerful enough to cause anyone trouble these days, simply because Tommy's game relies a lot on touch and not on power. Wawrinka is good too, but he can shank them when he is ready, only recently has he been recently consistent, although his forehand is obviously much weaker, which generally makes his backhand look better. I might get some stick for this, but I think Robredo has one of the better backhands to rally with, just in terms of consistency and depth. He doesn't hit the hardest, but he gets well behind it - partially due to the fact that he is an excellent mover - and he gets it deep with regularity, although he avoids the lines as much as possible for the most part.

excellent post. in the past, i have lookd at some magnificent one handed backhands:

1. Vilas
2. Muster
3. Gaudio
4. Guga

and of course now the mighty Fed. the deal is this. they are all superb backhands but they no longer work in today`s fast paced game. what worked 5-10 years ago no longer works.

the pace of the game is revealing the limitations of a one hander. just way too many variables to get it right time and again. on clay, the one hander looks beautiful and some of the players get the time they need to hit it well but eventually fatigue comes into play. and the fact that you need near perfect technique and preparation to hit it well time and again is just too burdensome.

when the fatigue comes into play, you start spraying it a little. it is also difficult to drive it with consistency.

homogenius
05-30-2008, 05:10 AM
Even you one-handed backhand haters or just general Federer haters cannot deny there was a point where his backhand was great (a few years ago!), what the hell has happened to it?
He's still able to execute amazing passing shots and amazing volleys but general the backhand shot is pathetic now, had it been stronger he would have beaten Nadal on clay soo many more times?

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=121048

Rafa = Fed Killa
05-30-2008, 05:12 AM
Nothing, it's the greatest single hander of all time.

sarcasm is a wonderful tool to show people the way.

congrats on a smart move..even if you think Borg>Nadal on clay ;)

dmit424
05-30-2008, 05:24 AM
There's no "almost bouncing". If a slice is done the correct way it doesn't bounce.

You're such an a-hole, dude. If you want to get so picky and technical, then a physicist can tell you that if the ball makes ANY upwards trajectory after making contact with the court, it DOES, indeed, bounce. In fact, technically speaking, everything that has a force and collides with something else, provided no velcro material is involved, bounces. A slice on clay does not almost bounce, it does bounce (and also skids, as you said).

drf716
05-30-2008, 05:31 AM
there was a point where his backhand was great (a few years ago!), what the hell has happened to it?


it's about time something unlucky happens to him.
all things degenerate.
new no.1 soon.:devil:

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 05:35 AM
You're such an a-hole, dude. If you want to get so picky and technical, then a physicist can tell you that if the ball makes ANY upwards trajectory after making contact with the court, it DOES, indeed, bounce. In fact, technically speaking, everything that has a force and collides with something else, provided no velcro material is involved, bounces. A slice on clay does not almost bounce, it does bounce (and also skids, as you said).


truer words were never spoken. that is the right description.

back to the bounce. slice on clay can and does bounce and even more so if the the court is dry and the climate is devoid of any significant humidity. it can skid as well but usually if it hits the tape.

slice has a tendency to skid (depending on how well it it is hit) and stay low on extremely fast surface such as slick grass or a fast hard court.

mecir72
05-30-2008, 05:48 AM
On indoor carpet or on grass federers backhand is probably the best backhand. On clay it is not. I still think his backhand has improved over the last couple of years. It is a bit on and off now and his movement isnt as good as before but the shot itself is better.

habibko
05-30-2008, 06:31 AM
he is only 26 he will get better..

sennoc
05-30-2008, 06:41 AM
It would be interesting to know NTRPs of most authors in this thread...

sheeter
05-30-2008, 07:14 AM
*****mods take note. another incedence of a poster insulting a fellow poster.

********get this right mods and try to fair and just for a change. they always draw first blood. i only defend myself.

now i will be reminding you every single time somebdy feels the urge to take a cheap shot.

Clay death, I mean no offense. i honestly do think there is some truth to what you say. You do have to have a weapon off both sides these days. However, to discuss that was not the purpose pf the thread starter, and I think we should respect that. I was not calling you a degenerate, as already pointed out. I was using it in a verb tense, also already pointed out. Thank you to whoever did that.

bokehlicious
05-30-2008, 07:22 AM
Haas.

:haha: the fanboy is upset because some mtfers dare think that Fed has a better on hander that Harse, hence the sig...

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 07:23 AM
Clay death, I mean no offense. i honestly do think there is some truth to what you say. You do have to have a weapon off both sides these days. However, to discuss that was not the purpose pf the thread starter, and I think we should respect that. I was not calling you a degenerate, as already pointed out. I was using it in a verb tense, also already pointed out. Thank you to whoever did that.

my mistake. that said, it does appear to be a mtf custom on the part of a few clowns here to relentlessly attack some posters. and then they wonder why people call them clowns.

one thing about me should be certain. i am all about tennis. i only attack after being attacked and the mods know this. that is what gets me. they know that some people are always engaged in personal attacks against me.

rwn
05-30-2008, 07:30 AM
Federer's results on clay this year are equal to previous years when he reached the RG final. So what are you whining about ?

scarecrows
05-30-2008, 07:31 AM
....
there are plenty of forums who want and need my services. ...

:spit:

bad gambler
05-30-2008, 07:31 AM
he is only 26 he will get better..

You honestly think Federer hasn't peaked yet?

habibko
05-30-2008, 07:32 AM
my mistake. that said, it does appear to be a mtf custom on the part of a few clowns here to relentlessly attack some posters. and then they wonder why people call them clowns.

one thing about me should be certain. i am all about tennis. i only attack after being attacked and the mods know this. that is what gets me. they know that some people are always engaged in personal attacks against me.

It is only the fruit-laden tree that receives the shower of stones from passersby ;)

bokehlicious
05-30-2008, 07:33 AM
Federer's results on clay this year are equal to previous years when he reached the RG final. So what are you whining about ?

Federer has to dismantle every single opponent any day on any surface, when he fails he's labeled an overrated lucky average player... That's how MTF goes :)

Knightmace
05-30-2008, 07:33 AM
I want to see the old Backhand back!

habibko
05-30-2008, 07:35 AM
You honestly think Federer hasn't peaked yet?

peaked???? come on this guy only has 12 slams, he still has a promising career ahead of him :drink:

seriously now, what if he had a Guga backhand or whatever, don't you think it will be a little too unfair for all other players? divine intervention is adding a little more spice to the mix :devil:

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 07:35 AM
It is only the fruit-laden tree that receives the shower of stones from passersby ;)

good one. i may have to use that.

rwn
05-30-2008, 07:41 AM
peaked???? come on this guy only has 12 slams, he still has a promising career ahead of him :drink:

seriously now, what if he had a Guga backhand or whatever, don't you think it will be a little too unfair for all other players? divine intervention is adding a little more spice to the mix :devil:

Federer loses 1 non-clay slam and people immediately think he's done. Well, maybe that shows how good he is. They never said these kind of things about Sampras.

The Magician
05-30-2008, 07:41 AM
you have 2 clueless trolls (groundstroke and myrni chap) so what do you expect.

his one hander is the best in history. the problem is that times have changed and one handers are fast becoming obsolete. too many variables involved in that stroke. movement, timing, mechanics, and the like must be optimal and totally synchronized in order for it to be effective. and it lacks the power and precision of a 2 hander.

players can buy a little time on clay and are able to hit it well but it does eventually break down under repeated pressure.

I know I should ignore you, but this post is too funny. You have no idea what professional tennis takes. All shots at the pro level, or even challenger level take near perfect balance, movement, timing, and power. To imply a 1 hander is inherently weaker because it takes precision is ridiculous. Go play poker or something, most sports and especially tennis have little room for error.

Adler
05-30-2008, 07:59 AM
Always broke under pressure.
Well. there were some of his finest backhands (DTL ones) in his matches against Nadal, but generally : yes, unfortunately

moon language
05-30-2008, 08:05 AM
It's his movement and confidence. Neither are what they used to be.

Roland9
05-30-2008, 08:24 AM
To echo others; his backhand relies very much on timing, and his recent troubles a la worse movement made it more erratic than it used to be, which may also shaken his confidence as a result, indeed.

Chiseller
05-30-2008, 08:39 AM
in any case, i am finished with your brand of justice. i will see if it gets better here for a week or so. if not, i am gone. i dont need the abuse and i dont need mods to come after me when its the others who do the attacking.

there are plenty of forums who want and need my services. all i do is promote discussions and what i get in return is attacks.


Haha, constant hitting of the button "Report Post" finally makes an impact. :lol:

Black Adam
05-30-2008, 08:45 AM
P Antonius who is your hatefull avatar?

bokehlicious
05-30-2008, 09:13 AM
P Antonius who is your hatefull avatar?

Dijana's sister ;)

leng jai
05-30-2008, 09:37 AM
:haha: the fanboy is upset because some mtfers dare think that Fed has a better on hander that Harse, hence the sig...

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Too bad the whole reason the thread was made and the poll made public by GWH was just to embarress the clowns that think Federer has the best single hander :haha:

Bernard Black
05-30-2008, 11:25 AM
there are plenty of forums who want and need my services. all i do is promote discussions and what i get in return is attacks.

No one's stopping you using these other forums you refer to, and sounds like you'll be much more respected there.

I think people are hacked off because you already have over 3,000 posts in the space of 3 months. Yes, you have promoted discussion which is great, but it's always about the same topics...either Djokovic worship or something anti-Federer. It was funny at first, but kinda became borderline spam when you kept posting the same thing all the time - deadpan taken too far. Just my two cents there, not attacking you.

Back to the discussion in hand, Federer has a backhand which is neither strength nor weakness in my opinion. The only player capable of breaking down the shot is Nadal, and that usually has to be on clay, so the evidence really isn't sufficient to class the shot a weakness if only one player can exploit it on one surface.

It's a great rally shot, he sets up points well with it, and we all agree it's an awesome passing shot. The only negative is his inability to finish points in a baseline rally from that wing, so he can, in theory, get pinned down into long rallies on that side, increasing the chances he'll eventually mishit one. His down the line backhand is ok, but he doesn't seem to have great confidence in the shot and misses quite a few. Even the ones he hits well Nadal always retrieves on clay.

Slice backhand is obviously one of the best, but as previously mentioned, it's not a shot he likes to use much on clay. In my opinion he should use it more, and in an aggressive way, as Scoobs explained. If nothing else, it mixes up play and doesn't allow the opponent to get rhythm in the rally, and is much more reliable that his backhand drive.

Saying all this though, he is the number 1 player in the world and has probably tried numerous different tactics in training and is fully aware of the best game to bring to court. Maybe we expect too much of him.

groundstroke
05-30-2008, 12:11 PM
Clay Death you are a fool, you keep on saying that the one handed backhand will break under pressure when someone keeps on putting pressure on it, especially on clay.
Then how come Gaudio won the French Open with a one handed backhand? Many people thought that was his weakness yet he managed to keep it consistent and dangerous through out the tournament.
Gaudio just proves that if you're consistent with a one handed BH you can win the French. Federer isn't, any more.

groundstroke
05-30-2008, 12:13 PM
No one's stopping you using these other forums you refer to, and sounds like you'll be much more respected there.

I think people are hacked off because you already have over 3,000 posts in the space of 3 months. Yes, you have promoted discussion which is great, but it's always about the same topics...either Djokovic worship or something anti-Federer. It was funny at first, but kinda became borderline spam when you kept posting the same thing all the time - deadpan taken too far. Just my two cents there, not attacking you.

Back to the discussion in hand, Federer has a backhand which is neither strength nor weakness in my opinion. The only player capable of breaking down the shot is Nadal, and that usually has to be on clay, so the evidence really isn't sufficient to class the shot a weakness if only one player can exploit it on one surface.

It's a great rally shot, he sets up points well with it, and we all agree it's an awesome passing shot. The only negative is his inability to finish points in a baseline rally from that wing, so he can, in theory, get pinned down into long rallies on that side, increasing the chances he'll eventually mishit one. His down the line backhand is ok, but he doesn't seem to have great confidence in the shot and misses quite a few. Even the ones he hits well Nadal always retrieves on clay.

Slice backhand is obviously one of the best, but as previously mentioned, it's not a shot he likes to use much on clay. In my opinion he should use it more, and in an aggressive way, as Scoobs explained. If nothing else, it mixes up play and doesn't allow the opponent to get rhythm in the rally, and is much more reliable that his backhand drive.

Saying all this though, he is the number 1 player in the world and has probably tried numerous different tactics in training and is fully aware of the best game to bring to court. Maybe we expect too much of him.
We expect too much of him because there was a point where Federer won 22 consecutive finals, in that time his backhand was stunning. It can't just suddenly turn to complete shit in a matter of years.

Bernard Black
05-30-2008, 12:25 PM
We expect too much of him because there was a point where Federer won 22 consecutive finals, in that time his backhand was stunning. It can't just suddenly turn to complete shit in a matter of years.

Natural evolution of the game I'm afraid, don't sweat it. Many players started to make Sampras' serve look shit towards the end of his career, doesn't mean that it's not one of the best strokes ever, just that other players got used to it and found ways to attack it. The same is happening with the Federer backhand.

groundstroke
05-30-2008, 12:28 PM
Natural evolution of the game I'm afraid, don't sweat it. Many players started to make Sampras' serve look shit towards the end of his career, doesn't mean that it's not one of the best strokes ever, just that other players got used to it and found ways to attack it. The same is happening with the Federer backhand.
More and more players are starting to exploit it but that doesn't explain his sudden inability to finish off with that wing, where as last year in the US Open 2007 final (very recent), in the final game of the match against Djokovic he hit some amazing backhand shots.

Byrd
05-30-2008, 12:37 PM
You would think considering that 99% percent of the ATP play to that wing all the time the shot would become more solid, but its not the case, actually to the contrary.

Black Adam
05-30-2008, 12:42 PM
His backhand has always been a weak point and if you have the weapons to harass it it will eventual break and shank Unforced errors all over the place.

:haha: the fanboy is upset because some mtfers dare think that Fed has a better on hander that Harse, hence the sig...

:haha: :rolls: Haas sucks big time, the only thing that he has acheived is having fanboys like Leng Jai who believe he has a great backhand. And also that he is the greatest world number 2 there ever was.

leng jai
05-30-2008, 01:19 PM
His backhand has always been a weak point and if you have the weapons to harass it it will eventual break and shank Unforced errors all over the place.

:haha: :rolls: Haas sucks big time, the only thing that he has acheived is having fanboys like Leng Jai who believe he has a great backhand. And also that he is the greatest world number 2 there ever was.

At least my idol isn't an all serve moonballing mug who loses his balls againt top players. Haas' career was worthwhile just for embarressing Roddick time and time again

marcRD
05-30-2008, 03:16 PM
I think only Nalbandian and Nadal really ave broke down Federers backhand, atleast before this year. So it is not like any player with a good backhand can break it down. Maybe it is not a great weapon but I would never call it a weakness. You have to also see the whole picture, Federer can do alot of things with his backhand, he has the greatest slice in the game, his halfvolleys on the backhand side are really amazing and his passing shots are probably also the best in the game. Sure, in topspin rallies it tries to set up the forehand or surprise with a winner now and then.

Gasquet and Youzhny have alot better topspin backhands ofcourse, but I still count it as among the best backhands out there overall. Well, maybe not this year.

Clay Death
05-30-2008, 03:51 PM
I think only Nalbandian and Nadal really ave broke down Federers backhand, atleast before this year. So it is not like any player with a good backhand can break it down. Maybe it is not a great weapon but I would never call it a weakness. You have to also see the whole picture, Federer can do alot of things with his backhand, he has the greatest slice in the game, his halfvolleys on the backhand side are really amazing and his passing shots are probably also the best in the game. Sure, in topspin rallies it tries to set up the forehand or surprise with a winner now and then.

Gasquet and Youzhny have alot better topspin backhands ofcourse, but I still count it as among the best backhands out there overall. Well, maybe not this year.

i have to disagree somewhat. i have studied Fed`s backhand for years. amazing as it may seem, he has beefed it up. its even better than it used to be.

what we are not taking into account is the field. some players have simply figured out how to play him better. and a one hander is at a decided disadvantage in today`s faster paced game no matter how good it is. it will break down simply because it has way too many variables. too many things have to go right to hit it well and it is hard to do repeatedly as on clay where you may called they may dirct damn near every serve and every shot to your one handed backhand wing.

last year`s final showed that Fed committed more unforced errors off his forehand wing than his backhand wing. it is actually better now than it was a couple of years ago. its the best one hander the game has ever seen.

he has lost a little step so that is not helping matters also.

yanchr
05-30-2008, 04:12 PM
You would think considering that 99% percent of the ATP play to that wing all the time the shot would become more solid, but its not the case, actually to the contrary.
I think his backhand alone has improved quite a bit along the years. It's his movement that has let him down in almost every aspect of his game. His backhand passing shot has deteriorated a lot recently (though he can still hit some once in a while), even worse affected is his running forehand...

kafemotor
05-30-2008, 04:52 PM
For me it's simple... Fed may attack with his gorgeous BH and gain winners as many as he needs. but compare to its UEs when it is attacked recently, then it fails to gain supremacy. I saw players whose BHs almost had no hole and became the deadliest weapons as well...

Apemant
05-30-2008, 05:33 PM
Back to the discussion in hand, Federer has a backhand which is neither strength nor weakness in my opinion. The only player capable of breaking down the shot is Nadal, and that usually has to be on clay, so the evidence really isn't sufficient to class the shot a weakness if only one player can exploit it on one surface.

I have to disagree here...

MANY people have been able to exploit that particular weakness, esp. on clay (but also on other surfaces). It's just because of Federer's other qualities (serve, FH, versatility, movement before mono etc) that they couldn't convert it into a win. Federer's BH is(was) a great auxillary weapon, but as a rally shot it's just not good. It doesn't even look good, mechanics seem sorta awkward. And it often shanks a LOT.

(Edit: at times even the topspin looked great, but that was usually when there is zero pressure, i.e. when playing Blake or such :devil: )

Allez
05-30-2008, 06:31 PM
It was always going to be the first thing to go once age became a factor.

groundstroke
05-30-2008, 06:36 PM
It was always going to be the first thing to go once age became a factor.
He's 26... not old at all and his movement is still excellent.

Allez
05-30-2008, 06:42 PM
He's 26... not old at all and his movement is still excellent.

He is 27 this year. That's very old in tennis. Very old. Why do you suppose he has only won one (minor)title this year ? Father time has caught up with him quite badly and his backhand has always been vulnerable.

Sunset of Age
05-30-2008, 06:55 PM
He is 27 this year. That's very old in tennis. Very old. Why do you suppose he has only won one (minor)title this year ? Father time has caught up with him quite badly and his backhand has always been vulnerable.

Oh, come on. Yes, 27 is antique. Order his coffin already! :rolleyes:
If you do a little research you may find out that there are plenty players between 26 and say, 31, still playing very well. And it's not like the age factor makes you suddenly drop your level like Fed dropped his during the first three months of 2008. Ever heard of his mono infection, just to name something?

FedFan_2007
05-30-2008, 07:01 PM
Karin, excuses excuses! We all know Fed was sweating in the Australian SF because he was afraid of Djokovic!

groundstroke
05-30-2008, 07:23 PM
He is 27 this year. That's very old in tennis. Very old. Why do you suppose he has only won one (minor)title this year ? Father time has caught up with him quite badly and his backhand has always been vulnerable.
There have been players older than 27 who have been in excellent form.

Allez
05-30-2008, 07:25 PM
There have been players older than 27 who have been in excellent form.

Not as excellent as Roger was between 2003 and 2007.

Matt01
05-30-2008, 10:45 PM
Oh, come on. Yes, 27 is antique. Order his coffin already! :rolleyes:

Yep, 27 is not old for ATP tennis players.
For WTA players, it almost is, though.


We all know Fed was sweating in the Australian SF because he was afraid of Djokovic!

Exactly :devil:

Sunset of Age
05-30-2008, 10:56 PM
Yep, 27 is not old for ATP tennis players.
For WTA players, it almost is, though.


Very true. The ladies usually come up at a younger age and retire earlier as well. As girls are, generally speaking, some two years ahead of boys in their fysical development, this is not much of a surprise.

finishingmove
05-30-2008, 11:04 PM
Very true. The ladies usually come up at a younger age and retire earlier as well. As girls are, generally speaking, some two years ahead of boys in their fysical development, this is not much of a surprise.

but u live longer? :confused: :cool:

Sunset of Age
05-30-2008, 11:11 PM
but u live longer? :confused: :cool:

Strange, isn't it? ;) :p

Sunset of Age
05-30-2008, 11:14 PM
Not as excellent as Roger was between 2003 and 2007.

That may well indeed be the case, but tell me, how many players have EVER been as good as Roger between 2003 - 2007? ;)
Don't forget Roger was a relatively late bloomer as well. While I see many people writing players off when they haven't fulfilled the promise of what they 'should have become' at the tender ages of 21, 22 - we mustn't forget Roger was one of them. It won't be much of a surprise to me if he still has some three good years ahead of him. Not as dominant as he was, but still a very good player.

Okonsky
05-31-2008, 12:06 AM
Very true. The ladies usually come up at a younger age and retire earlier as well. As girls are, generally speaking, some two years ahead of boys in their fysical development, this is not much of a surprise.

Yes, that's true. Fortunately there's (rare but) some girls who can play even better than ever in their late 20es. Srebotnik yesterday is prefect example. But...every rule has his own exeption.

Sunset of Age
05-31-2008, 12:08 AM
Yes, that's true. Fortunately there's (rare but) some girls who can play even better than ever in their late 20es. Srebotnik yesterday is prefect example. But...every rule has his own exeption.

Yes, there are some very strange exceptions to that rule... Okay, she didn't manage to reach the main tournament at RG, but Brenda Schulz-McCarthy still playes on the WTA tour... and she's 35! :eek: :D :D :D

Okonsky
05-31-2008, 12:49 AM
Yes, there are some very strange exceptions to that rule... Okay, she didn't manage to reach the main tournament at RG, but Brenda Schulz-McCarthy still playes on the WTA tour... and she's 35! :eek: :D :D :D

I found on the Database - Elizabeth Freeman-Young, an American Lady who while 50 years old, played the qualies of WTA Cincinatti in 2005.

Sunset of Age
05-31-2008, 01:11 AM
I found on the Database - Elizabeth Freeman-Young, an American Lady who while 50 years old, played the qualies of WTA Cincinatti in 2005.

wow... just WOW. :worship:

Aloimeh
05-31-2008, 01:26 AM
but u live longer? :confused: :cool:

Estrogen is a strange hormone. It protects the heart by lowering bad cholesterol and increasing good cholesterol, among other things, but on the other hand it increases blood clotting. That's why oral contraceptive pills can lead to blood clots in susceptible women, and can result in heart attacks and strokes.

Another interesting fact is that estrogen in *both men and women* is largely responsible for long bone growth. So, in men, testosterone first converts to estrogen, and then the estrogen can promote bone elongation. Testosterone, on the other hand, promotes the closure of the bone plates, thus stopping bone elongation. This leads to the strange phenomenon that both boys and girls who have precocious puberty (e.g. really young girls with breast development or boys with facial hair), since they have high levels of testosterone (either directly in males or converted from estrogen in females), will end up being shorter than their "normal" counterparts. On the other hand, males who are genetically XXY (Klinefelter's), who have much less testosterone, end up being very tall and lanky.

Aloimeh
05-31-2008, 01:30 AM
That may well indeed be the case, but tell me, how many players have EVER been as good as Roger between 2003 - 2007? ;)
Don't forget Roger was a relatively late bloomer as well. While I see many people writing players off when they haven't fulfilled the promise of what they 'should have become' at the tender ages of 21, 22 - we mustn't forget Roger was one of them. It won't be much of a surprise to me if he still has some three good years ahead of him. Not as dominant as he was, but still a very good player.

I doubt it. I think the most explosively superb players burn out sooner. I think Roger will crash out in the near future, and so will Nadal and Djokovic if they keep this tempo up. We can already see Nadal's cracking under the strain - the complaints on the clay season are louder, the blisters, knees, etc. Note how Borg, who was so brilliant, so young, and how he crashed out relatively early.

On the other hand, look at Agassi and Sampras, who had amazing longevity but never had Federer's dominance.

Sunset of Age
05-31-2008, 01:35 AM
I doubt it. I think the most explosively superb players burn out sooner. I think Roger will crash out in the near future, and so will Nadal and Djokovic if they keep this tempo up. We can already see Nadal's cracking under the strain - the complaints on the clay season are louder, the blisters, knees, etc. Note how Borg, who was so brilliant, so young, and how he crashed out relatively early.

On the other hand, look at Agassi and Sampras, who had amazing longevity but never had Federer's dominance.

Might be right here - fact is nobody has a truly trustworthy Crystal Ball when it comes to matters like these. But I take Roger's words for it - he mentioned he'd like to play on as long as possible, and shouldn't we believe him on that?
I can see where you are coming from though, judging from your sig... ;)

fast_clay
05-31-2008, 01:51 AM
There was a time when Federer was less stubborn on court and used more his great slice. ;)

that is pretty spot on...

i also agree with the dude who said that federer used to be better at switching the passage of play to his forehand wing tho i think the locker room chat has enabled everyone to live and breathe a bit longer with him before he goes ape sh!t, turns a match on its head and exposes most of his opponents for all of their shortcomings...

few years ago now, but i once heard a whisper that fed started a match armed with 12 game plans... it sounded complicated until it was explained that they were split into 2 equal groups...

1st 6) open play based on how well your opponent is playing
2nd 6) open play based upon your own form

the obvious order being that he chooses to respect his opponents game first before bringing his owns tools to work...

as the whisper went on it was added that this is what made him truly great... that he still retained the modesty to respect good play... and wait it out... and... in this... is where he first found, as tiger said: his cool

tho... like i said... just a whisper...

but i think the top three each own that ability to engage first before disassembling his opponent with the path of least resistance...

MacTheKnife
05-31-2008, 02:04 AM
Always broke under pressure.

Yea, he won 12 major titles with a backhand that broke under pressure. LMAO !!!

Kolya
11-16-2008, 05:27 AM
http://photocdn.sohu.com/20081108/Img260515163.jpg

This pic is from another thread by another poster. Sorry I forgot your MTF name.

FedFan_2007
11-16-2008, 06:05 AM
The simple fact of the matter is if you look at Federer from 2005-early 2007, his rallying topspin backhand was NOT erratic, it was consistently hit deep and effective. At the 2006 TMC and 2007 Australian Open it was downright scary good. He just suddenly *lost it* when arrived at Indian Wells and never got it back.

Forehander
11-16-2008, 09:34 AM
Shut up FedFan