The Israeli players / Dubai controversy [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The Israeli players / Dubai controversy

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Paul Banks
04-01-2008, 12:04 AM
http://blog.douglasrobson.com/2008/03/31/were-israelis-erlich-and-ram-denied-entrance-to-dubai.aspx

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/tennis/2008-03-30-israelis-dubai_N.htm

Paul Banks
04-01-2008, 12:10 AM
"This is where the story gets significantly more muddled. I can’t get into all the details yet, but in essence, suggestions were raised that the tournament did not want the Israelis to play there and that on the eve of the event the ATP failed to provide the assurances the players needed, among them extra security and a formal letter of invitation from the government of Dubai.

(...)

Fuel was added to their silence when I became aware of documentation showing, among other things, that part of their camp had demanded a large sum of money from the ATP, the Dubai tournament and its sponsors, as well as the cancellation of the Dubai tournament. Threats were made to bring the entire mess to the media. "

Fee
04-01-2008, 12:19 AM
Kudos to Doug Robson for putting a spotlight on this story when others won't. I hope he stays on it until the complete truth comes out.

Bilbo
04-01-2008, 12:25 AM
Israelis aren't allowed to enter the United Arab Emirates

~*BGT*~
04-01-2008, 12:35 AM
I thought I had read somewhere that Dubai would let Israeli tennis players in.

Or Levy
04-01-2008, 12:36 AM
The first article is one I haven't read yet - VERY interesting.

Our security services probably advised them not to go, but they advise everyone not to go, the entire middle east is under severe travel alerts for Israelis, including all the countries we have peace agreements with.

Having said that, if they were in a position where no one told them that "Okay, you get to the airport and present your Israeli passport and you could go through, no problems" - it is small wonder they chose to skip it, and in that case the ATP failed to meet their end of the bargine.

Additionally, special security for Israeli playing in the middle east is something that must come hand in hand with the permission to enter the country, having one without the other is useless. It is a package deal.

Or Levy
04-01-2008, 12:38 AM
I thought I had read somewhere that Dubai would let Israeli tennis players in.

The formal letter of invitation apperantly never arrived.

It was unclear and up in the air all along.

cobalt60
04-01-2008, 12:38 AM
Thanks for posting these articles. I was curious myself and had speculated a teeny bit on their forum about it. I have a feeling my speculation may have been dead on.

finishingmove
04-01-2008, 12:49 AM
Israelis aren't allowed to enter the United Arab Emirates


athletes should be excluded...

Fee
04-01-2008, 12:55 AM
If it is the case that Dubai has failed to fulfill the assurances they made to the ATP, then this tournament needs to be pulled off the schedule. Of course, the ATP doesn't want that to happen, so it looks like they will manipulate history and make it look like 'world events' precluded Andyoni from going there. Shameful.

Or Levy
04-01-2008, 01:06 AM
The problem is that to call the ATP bluff Andy and Yoni need to get on a plane and attempt to enter Dubai, hope for the best.

The idea of them being stuck in an airport in Dubai without being able to enter the country is not exactly one that would make them hop on a plane.

MusicMyst
04-01-2008, 02:34 AM
If it is the case that Dubai has failed to fulfill the assurances they made to the ATP, then this tournament needs to be pulled off the schedule. Of course, the ATP doesn't want that to happen, so it looks like they will manipulate history and make it look like 'world events' precluded Andyoni from going there. Shameful.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the ATP Tour to do right by Andy and Yoni. The players have the power to make Dubai pay the price for this, but they won't.

MusicMyst
04-01-2008, 02:35 AM
The problem is that to call the ATP bluff Andy and Yoni need to get on a plane and attempt to enter Dubai, hope for the best.

The idea of them being stuck in an airport in Dubai without being able to enter the country is not exactly one that would make them hop on a plane.

The best scenario was just being stuck in an airport. Being arrested would be a legitimate fear.

Stensland
04-01-2008, 09:34 AM
as long as the country's "habits" are as shady as they come, players should boycott the tournament, period. but who am i kidding, that's not gonna happen anyways. while i understand journeymen showing up to some extent, i don't get why roger or nadal feel like this is one of the tournament they constantly have to attend.

JustmeUK
04-01-2008, 10:24 AM
as long as the country's "habits" are as shady as they come, players should boycott the tournament, period. but who am i kidding, that's not gonna happen anyways. while i understand journeymen showing up to some extent, i don't get why roger or nadal feel like this is one of the tournament they constantly have to attend.


Appearnace fees that are worth more than winning the tournament? Not to mention Dubai is Roger's second home.

Chiseller
04-01-2008, 10:37 AM
as long as the country's "habits" are as shady as they come, players should boycott the tournament, period. but who am i kidding, that's not gonna happen anyways. while i understand journeymen showing up to some extent, i don't get why roger or nadal feel like this is one of the tournament they constantly have to attend.

So, your advise is to boycott every country which "habits" are shady? I guess we would end up playing in Greenland.

Jelena
04-01-2008, 10:46 AM
Reading that article confirmed in me a decision... If I ever fly to South Asia/Australia, I will never ever go via Dubai, doesn't matter if it may be the fastest/least expensive tour. Rather I'd pay some more money or fly a bit longer than going via Dubai.

It's a shame Andy and Joni can't choose the tournaments themselves, where they want to play.

I'd love to see Dubai excluded out of the ATP-calender.

I agree with Rrrainer btw about the boycott of the players.

Scotso
04-01-2008, 11:32 AM
Dubai needs to lose the event. There is NO excuse not to punish them.

The ATP has really lost all credibility, this is just another in a long list of blunders. We need to write the ATP and the sponsors and protest all of this.

*bunny*
04-01-2008, 11:58 AM
Shahar Peer played in Doha this year, didn't she. I remember reading an interview by Erlich and Ram after they won AO this year, saying they were willing to play in Dubai if things go well. Pity it didn't happen.

Or Levy
04-01-2008, 12:18 PM
Doha is a bit more lax about Israelies entering than than the UAE.

Andy and Yoni wanted to play there, but without an official invitation letter, it really would not have been worth it.

I trust Andy 'big mouth' Ram to talk to the Israeli media about it eventually.

CooCooCachoo
04-01-2008, 12:42 PM
Very interesting article. Thanks for posting.

FluffyYellowBall
04-01-2008, 01:11 PM
thats pretty ridiculous especially that 80% of people living there are not arab.

Who wants to go to Dubai anyway? It's just like a giant mall with no culture at all. Would definately not waste my money on a trip like that.

But the only reason im not for boycotting the tourney is coz the country has a huge diversitly of nationalities so there will always be some real tennis fans there.

Bilbo
04-01-2008, 01:19 PM
Dubai will never lose this tournament. In Dubai all big sports events will take place in the future. It's the metropolis of the future. I mean you have to understand the UAE. It's one of the few countries in the world without any problems. You never hear anything negative. So why should they risk anything? We all know if Israelis would play in Dubai some arab countries and newspapers will start to write and speak negative of Dubai.

FluffyYellowBall
04-01-2008, 11:49 PM
Bilbo, theres no reason y anyone should speak negatively of Dubai for letting ISraeli athletes enter. And if they do, its extreme and extremists are never right

Henry Chinaski
04-01-2008, 11:56 PM
if I was running the dubai event I wouldn't make any special arrangements for a pair of doubles mugs either.

The Pro
04-02-2008, 12:00 AM
There is so much money in Dubai, pity there isn't equality too.

Sunset of Age
04-02-2008, 12:09 AM
There is so much money in Dubai, pity there isn't equality too.

No, not at all. Even worse - there are a lot of people from abroad (Chinese, Indians, etc.) over there doing all the REAL hard work - and it's no secret they get treated pretty bad by the Arabs ruling the place very often.

FluffyYellowBall
04-02-2008, 12:16 AM
Dunno about that.. I know lots of foreigner who are happy working there but money talks FOR SURE...They even treat us bad when they come here. With their big cars and their cigars! :(

Sunset of Age
04-02-2008, 12:21 AM
Dunno about that.. I know lots of foreigner who are happy working there but money talks FOR SURE...They even treat us bad when they come here. With their big cars and their cigars! :(

Well, there have been quite a few reports of foreign helpers in house having been treated like slaves, as well as foreign building constructors and the like. Thing is, as long as everything goes well and they are properly payed (as you say... Money Talks...) it's all okay, but they have no social rights whatsoever - when they get fired, or otherwise into trouble, they are into BIG trouble indeed.

Would like to come up with some links about this matter, hope I will soon.

FluffyYellowBall
04-02-2008, 12:27 AM
I thought u were refering to foreigners who are well payed. Would be interesting to know if that happens often.

cobalt60
04-02-2008, 12:27 AM
I trust Andy 'big mouth' Ram to talk to the Israeli media about it eventually.

And would that be such a bad thing? I would love to know the truth;)

Jelena
04-02-2008, 10:10 AM
No, not at all. Even worse - there are a lot of people from abroad (Chinese, Indians, etc.) over there doing all the REAL hard work - and it's no secret they get treated pretty bad by the Arabs ruling the place very often.

Well, there have been quite a few reports of foreign helpers in house having been treated like slaves, as well as foreign building constructors and the like. Thing is, as long as everything goes well and they are properly payed (as you say... Money Talks...) it's all okay, but they have no social rights whatsoever - when they get fired, or otherwise into trouble, they are into BIG trouble indeed.

Would like to come up with some links about this matter, hope I will soon.
I know biographies of people who worked there as "housemaid" too. Well, we get here the possibility to read biographies which won't get published in some other countries. But I can confirm the posts though.

TheBoiledEgg
04-02-2008, 11:43 AM
If there was a tourn in Israel i dont think any Arab player would be allowed to enter either
if they were, they'd probably get strip-searched, hand-cuffed to and from venue :rolleyes:

Rogiman
04-02-2008, 12:05 PM
If there was a tourn in Israel i dont think any Arab player would be allowed to enter either
if they were, they'd probably get strip-searched, hand-cuffed to and from venue :rolleyes:Then you should know you are wrong, my friend :)

I would like to know where you've got that impression from.

Paul Banks
04-02-2008, 01:37 PM
If there was a tourn in Israel i dont think any Arab player would be allowed to enter either


Nonsense.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Henry Chinaski
04-02-2008, 02:46 PM
they'd let him play. they'd even provide a special outfit for him:

http://www.sxappeal.com/sxclothing/sx0.jpg

Or Levy
04-02-2008, 02:47 PM
And would that be such a bad thing? I would love to know the truth;)

Well, it may get trickier than I thought.

I asked an Israeli tennis reporter why the hell wasn't it reported in Israel, and he said that "Internal Security asked to 'lie low' on the matter, and all those involved (Shahar, Tzipi, Andy and Yoni) asked not to talk about it, they won't comment"

My guess is that they want to make a second attempt to go to Dubai next year, and negetive publicity would be dangerous, security wise.

That tells me they are trying to solve this through diplomatic channels, and the players can't risk trashing the UAE right now.

If there won't be a solution next year, they'll probably talk.

EagleWatch
04-02-2008, 06:35 PM
no the players or fans can do a damm thing about it, try not to waste ur time discussing what should had been done about it.
dubai has influence, money and the support of many diplomates and athletes as well.
or, its just a waste of time. no matter what-nothing will be done about it. end of discussion.

cobalt60
04-02-2008, 07:39 PM
Well, it may get trickier than I thought.

I asked an Israeli tennis reporter why the hell wasn't it reported in Israel, and he said that "Internal Security asked to 'lie low' on the matter, and all those involved (Shahar, Tzipi, Andy and Yoni) asked not to talk about it, they won't comment"

My guess is that they want to make a second attempt to go to Dubai next year, and negetive publicity would be dangerous, security wise.

That tells me they are trying to solve this through diplomatic channels, and the players can't risk trashing the UAE right now.

If there won't be a solution next year, they'll probably talk.

Thanks for the info:)

Or Levy
04-02-2008, 07:58 PM
no the players or fans can do a damm thing about it, try not to waste ur time discussing what should had been done about it.
dubai has influence, money and the support of many diplomates and athletes as well.
or, its just a waste of time. no matter what-nothing will be done about it. end of discussion.

If we can't change it, we shouldn't talk about it?

I don't get your logic.

(I wrote a longer reply in Tapuz, check it out)

Sunset of Age
04-02-2008, 08:00 PM
If we can't change it, we shouldn't talk about it?


One thing is for sure, if people don't bring up this matter in discussions, surely nothing will change... :rolleyes:

FluffyYellowBall
04-02-2008, 09:24 PM
Well, it may get trickier than I thought.

I asked an Israeli tennis reporter why the hell wasn't it reported in Israel, and he said that "Internal Security asked to 'lie low' on the matter, and all those involved (Shahar, Tzipi, Andy and Yoni) asked not to talk about it, they won't comment"

My guess is that they want to make a second attempt to go to Dubai next year, and negetive publicity would be dangerous, security wise.

That tells me they are trying to solve this through diplomatic channels, and the players can't risk trashing the UAE right now.

If there won't be a solution next year, they'll probably talk.

Im not surprised. Even things within a country are kept low. Some people here dont even have access to water and theyve only brought attention to it very recently:rolleyes: And the talk show host who brought up this issue is in trouble now.

FluffyYellowBall
04-04-2008, 01:51 AM
I know biographies of people who worked there as "housemaid" too. Well, we get here the possibility to read biographies which won't get published in some other countries. But I can confirm the posts though.

Whats so shocking about housemaids? Well if theyre mistreated thats shocking but they exist

Stensland
04-04-2008, 12:44 PM
it's amazing that people on mtf actually think it's "nice" of the uae to let this or that group enter. wow. how nice of arabs to not keep jews from entering their country.

i hope the ones who kindly allow some well-known tennis players from israel to take part in a sports tournament on their soil one day get nominated for the nobel peace price. such nice fellas down there.

:rolleyes:

Bilbo
04-04-2008, 01:05 PM
a typical comment by Rrrainer which shows that he hasn't understood anything about the relationship between arabs and jews. why should anyone let their biggest enemy entering their territory? it would be like you inviting your biggest enemy to enter your house.

isn't that hard to understand, isn't it?

like eggy said if there was a tournament in israel they would do the same and if not so you can be sure no arab would like to play there because of the well-known consequences they would get.

Stensland
04-04-2008, 01:16 PM
a typical comment by Rrrainer which shows that he hasn't understood anything about the relationship between arabs and jews. why should anyone let their biggest enemy entering their territory? it would be like you inviting your biggest enemy to enter your house.

isn't that hard to understand, isn't it?

like eggy said if there was a tournament in israel they would do the same and if not so you can be sure no arab would like to play there because of the well-known consequences they would get.

bilbo, i am literally sitting here, shaking my head and pitying you for all that you post on mtf. i don't dislike you or anything, i just feel sorry. either you're constantly taking the piss (and if so, you're great at hiding it) or you're simply one of the most naive, ridiculously stubborn and, excuse me, absurdly dumb persons i have ever met.

oh, and on topic, to make it bluntly: debating with you offends my intelligence. and that's not even meant in any grandiloquent way whatsoever. but there's a limit of toleration and you've crossed that border of stupidity too many times now, i just can't take you seriously anymore. you're satire, and satire's something to giggle, not something for conversation.

Bilbo
04-04-2008, 01:36 PM
all i said was i can understand the decision of the UAE. i want you to see in the position of the dubai tournament and how you would handle the situation. you just think it's all so easy :rolleyes: probably you should view more than just the german tv news to get a clue.

shouldn't the conflict be over by the end of the year according to bush? now this is dumb and stubborn to me.

Jelena
04-04-2008, 01:43 PM
Whats so shocking about housemaids? Well if theyre mistreated thats shocking but they exist
I only wanted to say that many of the housemaids are mistreated. They don't have any free day, they are abused (also, but not only sexually), they are miserably paid etc. etc....

buddyholly
04-04-2008, 03:14 PM
a typical comment by Rrrainer which shows that he hasn't understood anything about the relationship between arabs and jews. why should anyone let their biggest enemy entering their territory? it would be like you inviting your biggest enemy to enter your house.

isn't that hard to understand, isn't it?

like eggy said if there was a tournament in israel they would do the same and if not so you can be sure no arab would like to play there because of the well-known consequences they would get.

Saying that Israel is Dubai's biggest enemy once again shows your silliness.

They would have entered the tournament as Israelis, not as Jews. But you seem to be more focused on ethnicity than nationality. What would you say if Erlich and Ram were Israeli Arabs? Let them in because it is only Jews who should be kept out of Dubai, not Arabs?
Unfortunately, the way your mind immediately sees it as a Jewish question is just too reminiscent of another Germany.

According to your twisted mind Sania Mirza should have been refused entry to the Sony Ericsson because she's - ugggggghhhhhhhhh- a Muslim!!!!!!

Fee
06-10-2008, 05:27 AM
All praise to Doug Robson for staying on top of this story...

http://blog.douglasrobson.com/2008/05/31/rapid-fire-from-roland-garros.aspx


Rapid Fire from Roland Garros
Posted by Douglas Robson at 5/31/2008 10:35 AM and is filed under Tennis

With seven days of the French Open in the record books, here are a few quick observations from the days behind and the days ahead:

--I caught up with Israelis Jonathan Erlich and Andy Ram – they of the abrupt Dubai about-face – who still aren't saying about why they bailed on becoming the first athletes from their country to compete in the United Arab Emirates at March's Barclays Dubai Duty Free tournament.

The tandem told me they are waiting to hear whether the ATP has received extra official written assurances that they can compete in Dubai, where Isrealis cannot normally travel. The deadline is Wimbledon.

“As soon as we get (the written assurance) we’ll talk,” said Ram following their second-round win Saturday. “As soon as we don’t get it, we’ll talk even more.”

Erlich said compatriot Shahar Peer also intends to compete in Dubai and therefore could beat them to the punch, as she did in Doha earlier this year, where she became the first Israeli to play an event in the Persian Gulf at Doha, Qatar. The women's Dubai tournament is the week before the men’s.

“She’s the guinea pig,” joked Erlich.

They also told me that they had ended their contract with Norman Canter, their agent and a vocal behind-the-scenes critic of how the Dubai situation was handled by tournament and ATP officials. The word is that things have simmered down and threats of a lawsuit have dissipated.

Fee
07-16-2008, 10:24 PM
More from Doug Robson:

http://blog.douglasrobson.com/2008/06/27/notes-from-sw19.aspx

Notes from SW19
Posted by Douglas Robson at 6/27/2008 10:35 AM and is filed under Tennis

Bits of news from around Wimbledon during the first week:


--I spoke to Israelis Jonathan Erlich and Andy Ram (again) following their comeback win from two sets down in the first round. The pair, who were supposed to play in Dubai and suspiciously pulled out at the last minute, are supposed to get written assurances from tournament organizers that, as Israelis, they are able to travel and play safely in the United Arab Emirates.


The deadline for said assurances is Wimbledon. They told me that they are still waiting to see the confirmation but remain hopeful to play in Dubai next year. I asked the ATP if they had received the assurances I was told they had. I have yet see it and I am waiting for them to turn up with it. By the way, the Australian Open champs and No. 3 seeds came through with another five-set win on Friday to advance to the last 16.

bobbynorwich
02-15-2009, 05:02 PM
Sunday, February 15, 2009

Peer denied Visa, will miss Dubai Tennis Championships

Dubai, United Arab Emirates (Sports Network) - Israeli tennis pro Shahar Peer was denied a Visa that would allow her to play in the Dubai Tennis Championships in the United Arab Emirates.

"We are deeply disappointed by the decision of the UAE denying Shahar Peer a Visa that would permit her to enter the country to play in the Dubai Tennis Championships," WTA chairman and CEO Larry Scott said in a statement. "Ms. Peer has earned the right to play in the tournament and it is regrettable that the UAE is denying her this right."

Peer, 21, is ranked No. 48 in the world on the WTA Tour and was scheduled to play 15th-seeded Anna Chakvetadze of Russia in the first round of the $2,000,000 tournament. She was the only Israeli player to be entered into the tournament.

"The Sony Ericsson WTA Tour believes very strongly, and has a clear rule and policy, that no host country should deny a player the right to compete at a tournament for which she has qualified by ranking," Scott said. "The Tour is reviewing appropriate remedies for Ms. Peer and also will review appropriate future actions with regard to the future of the Dubai tournament."

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RickDaStick
02-15-2009, 05:03 PM
who cares... go discuss it on WTA forum

Stensland
02-15-2009, 05:05 PM
all the atp players should withdraw from the upcoming tournament.

i'll never understand any player that seriously considers showing up this year.

any yes, this is a venting thread, and rightly so.

---

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/wtatour/4630217/Israels-Shahar-Peer-denied-visa-for-Dubai-Tennis-Championships.html

Israel's Shahar Peer denied visa for Dubai Tennis Championships

The UAE's decision to deny Israel's Shahar Peer a visa for this week's Dubai Tennis Championships has cast doubt over the event's future.

scarecrows
02-15-2009, 05:06 PM
that would make Bilbo a sad panda

Lee
02-15-2009, 05:07 PM
who cares... go discuss it on WTA forum

It may happen for ATP tour too.

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2009, 05:07 PM
WTA = non-tennis.

Please. Who cares?

Baghdatis#1
02-15-2009, 05:11 PM
I think this should be moved to the non-tennis, b/c although it is tennis, it is not men's tennis;)
Poor Shahar though:sad:

Snoo Foo
02-15-2009, 05:12 PM
all the atp players should withdraw from the upcoming tournament.

i'll never understand any player that seriously considers showing up this year.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/SnooFoo828/emoticon/013.gif they gotta stop playing there. end of story http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc179/SnooFoo828/emoticon/013.gif

cobalt60
02-15-2009, 05:15 PM
Well it will be an MTF story once Sela, Ram and Erlich are not allowed to play.

Purple Rainbow
02-15-2009, 05:16 PM
Also, it's the United Arab Emirates denying her entry, not the city of Dubai, nor the tournament organisers.

cobalt60
02-15-2009, 05:19 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=120559&highlight=ram+erlich+dubai

other thread should be merged with this one.

cobalt60
02-15-2009, 05:20 PM
FYI- http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=120559&highlight=ram+erlich+dubai

WillRogersBeach
02-15-2009, 05:20 PM
Dubai is collapsing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/world/middleeast/12dubai.html?_r=1&hp

Jozie
02-15-2009, 05:23 PM
WTA = non-tennis.

Please. Who cares?

I care...... FUCK YOU DUBAI!!!!!!! :mad:

Lee
02-15-2009, 05:25 PM
Dubai is collapsing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/world/middleeast/12dubai.html?_r=1&hp

I saw a report on TV that Dubai is so much in debt that even selling off all oil reserve won't be enough to pay it off. Real estates markert is worse than US right now.

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2009, 05:32 PM
I care...... FUCK YOU DUBAI!!!!!!! :mad:

www.twatworld.com

Thanks.

Jozie
02-15-2009, 05:35 PM
www.twatworld.com

Thanks.

You have NO idea! Thank You! :)

bobbynorwich
02-15-2009, 05:38 PM
To protest Sony Ericsson's continued sponsorship of Dubai tournament after UAE denied a qualified player's visa, contact its corporate officer in Sweden (International Headquarter) at this email address:

Åse Lindskog
Vice President, head of corporate public and media relations
press.relations@ericsson.com

Please post this name and email address on other forums that you read. Let's get it going!

bobbynorwich
02-15-2009, 05:40 PM
To protest Sony Ericsson's continued sponsorship of Dubai tournament after UAE denied a qualified player's visa, contact its corporate officer in Sweden (International Headquarter) at this email address:

Åse Lindskog
Vice President, head of corporate public and media relations
press.relations@ericsson.com

Please post this name and email address on other forums that you read. Let's get it going!

Jozie
02-15-2009, 05:40 PM
To protest Sony Ericsson's continued sponsorship of Dubai tournament after UAE denied a qualified player's visa, contact its corporate officer in Sweden (International Headquarter) at this email address:

Åse Lindskog
Vice President, head of corporate public and media relations
press.relations@ericsson.com

Please post this name and email address on other forums that you read. Let's get it going!

Pro-active. Thank you.

rocketassist
02-15-2009, 05:43 PM
Move this to non-tennis. It's a disgrace from the UAE, but WTA isn't tennis, so it shouldn't be in this section of the forum.

star
02-15-2009, 05:45 PM
All the women should withdraw in solidarity even more than the men -- but yeah. The men too.

Or Levy
02-15-2009, 05:46 PM
It's relevant, because the same thing (almost) happened to Andy and Yoni last year, only they delayed the rejection notice too much, and eventually Yoni got cold feet about the entire thing.

The only difference between what happened now to Shahar, and what happened to two ATP players last year, is that Shahar got official rejection and they just got constantly delayed, and didn't want to book a flight out.

star
02-15-2009, 05:47 PM
Move this to non-tennis. It's a disgrace from the UAE, but WTA isn't tennis, so it shouldn't be in this section of the forum.

But it's about TENNIS -- not just WTA tennis. There are Israeli citizens who are ATP players as well.

Or Levy
02-15-2009, 05:48 PM
Dubai is a tournament with goverment sponsership.

Lee
02-15-2009, 05:49 PM
But it's about TENNIS -- not just WTA tennis. There are Israeli citizens who are ATP players as well.

Agree and both ATP and WTA should think hard about having tournaments in Dubai.

TMJordan
02-15-2009, 05:50 PM
Dubai is a shithole.

adee-gee
02-15-2009, 05:51 PM
All the women should withdraw in solidarity even more than the men -- but yeah. The men too.
I agree.

Firstly, I find the decision disgusting. Dubai should most certainly be stripped of the tournament next year. Money isn't everything. I also find it disappointing that none of the rest of the WTA has of yet (to my knowledge) spoken out about this or done some sort of a protest/boycott.

Jozie
02-15-2009, 05:54 PM
It is most definately about TENNIS. Dubai are quite happy to host a tennis event. They forget it is the PLAYERS who make the event......

STRIP THE TOURNAMENT.

tangerine_dream
02-15-2009, 05:54 PM
Dedicated to Bilbo.

Or Levy
02-15-2009, 05:57 PM
Apperantly, Venus, Ana and Safina spoke in support of Shahar and said something about standing behind the WTA with whatever desicion they will get. Venus said that "We all support Shahar" - I thought it was quite lovely.

I didn't expect them to decide they are going back to the US/Serbia/Russia respecivly, but they showed support. I liked that.

Now, lets see what the men has to say.

*bites lower lip nervously*.

Oh Roger, why do you have to like Dubai, of all places?

Snoo Foo
02-15-2009, 06:00 PM
They better not be giving any ranking points for this piece of shit tournament where an eligible player was prohibited from playing.

Or Levy
02-15-2009, 06:04 PM
What's worse, is that she's losing 130 points from her semi in Memphis last year, which she could not enter because of the late rejection from Dubai. (Only yesterday)

Stensland
02-15-2009, 06:04 PM
i do mean it though. the players that are going to show up in dubai (if the tournament doesn't get cancelled due to sanctions by the atp) will be complete jokes in my world. yes, that means you too, roger.

star
02-15-2009, 06:07 PM
Apperantly, Venus, Ana and Safina spoke in support of Shahar and said something about standing behind the WTA with whatever desicion they will get. Venus said that "We all support Shahar" - I thought it was quite lovely.

I didn't expect them to decide they are going back to the US/Serbia/Russia respecivly, but they showed support. I liked that.

Now, lets see what the men has to say.

*bites lower lip nervously*.

Oh Roger, why do you have to like Dubai, of all places?

Yeah, it's quite lovely and all, but they are putting the onus on the WTA to make the decision when they could make the decision themselves by packing their bags and leaving.

MisterQ
02-15-2009, 06:07 PM
The players should take a stand on this one.

On a tangential note, doesn't Dubai just seem like an exercise in hubris? Many large cities are, I suppose, but this one seems particularly poised for a downfall.

Snoo Foo
02-15-2009, 06:08 PM
What's worse, is that she's losing 130 points from her semi in Memphis last year, which she could not enter because of the late rejection from Dubai. (Only yesterday)

fuck that, the wta should fly her in a fucking private jet to memphis, let her enter and give her a fucking first round bye and a goddamn thursday start.

star
02-15-2009, 06:10 PM
I agree.

Firstly, I find the decision disgusting. Dubai should most certainly be stripped of the tournament next year. Money isn't everything. I also find it disappointing that none of the rest of the WTA has of yet (to my knowledge) spoken out about this or done some sort of a protest/boycott.

The tours took a stand against S.A. during apartheid. I think this is the same. If Israeli's can't play in the UAE, why should anyone play?

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2009, 06:10 PM
fuck that, the wta should fly her in a fucking private jet to memphis, let her enter and give her a fucking first round bye and a goddamn thursday start.

Disagree. She should have already applied for Memphis, expecting such a rejection. She can't be so naïve.

Snoo Foo
02-15-2009, 06:10 PM
Yeah, it's quite lovely and all, but they are putting the onus on the WTA to make the decision when they could make the decision themselves by packing their bags and leaving.

Exactamundo, they just shouldn't go, don't fucking hide behind the WTA, if the WTA decides they should go, the WTA is fucking wrong.

Nathaliia
02-15-2009, 06:11 PM
:retard:

They shouldn't even be allowed to organize a 10 K futures this way.

On a side note Radwanska didn't get a visa to Russia (Moscow) last year but at least it was so Zvonareva could have played in the top 8 tournament... at least some cunning plan behind the rejection :lol:

Lee
02-15-2009, 06:11 PM
Yeah, it's quite lovely and all, but they are putting the onus on the WTA to make the decision when they could make the decision themselves by packing their bags and leaving.

Not sure if there's any contractual agreement they are abided to like with sponsors, etc. But at least, they should say they will boycott the tournament next year if there is still a tournament.

It's time for WTA to show some leadership though.

star
02-15-2009, 06:11 PM
Exactamundo, they just shouldn't go, don't fucking hide behind the WTA, if the WTA decides they should go, the WTA is fucking wrong.

:hug: You're so cute when you curse. :lol: I don't like it in most people, but with you, it just cracks me up. :lol:

alfonsojose
02-15-2009, 06:12 PM
Nice thread :yeah: Dubai sucks

Snoo Foo
02-15-2009, 06:13 PM
Disagree. She should have already applied for Memphis, expecting such a rejection. She can't be so naïve.

cmon dude this isn't real tennis so why the fuck are you even still posting in here? you have no idea what kind of bullshit assurances the wta or the tournament organizers made to her about getting a visa.

rhinooooo
02-15-2009, 06:14 PM
I doubt much will change. It's up to the big guns/stars to make the decision and boycott. ATP/WTA are gutless and worthless institutions.

star
02-15-2009, 06:15 PM
Not sure if there's any contractual agreement they are abided to like with sponsors, etc. But at least, they should say they will boycott the tournament next year if there is still a tournament.

It's time for WTA to show some leadership though.

That's the problem for the WTA. The WTA probably does have contractual obligations, but the WTA could issue a statement saying that they can't break their contract, but it's a matter of conscience for each individual player whether they remain to play. Then they should waive fines for withdrawals.

But the top women can afford fines. They should withdraw anyway.

alfonsojose
02-15-2009, 06:15 PM
Disagree. She should have already applied for Memphis, expecting such a rejection. She can't be so naïve.

:eek: You discussing WTA schedules? :rolls: :p ;)

Stensland
02-15-2009, 06:15 PM
The players should take a stand on this one.

On a tangential note, doesn't Dubai just seem like an exercise in hubris? Many large cities are, I suppose, but this one seems particularly poised for a downfall.

that'll happen once bilbo settles down there. ;)

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2009, 06:17 PM
cmon dude this isn't real tennis so why the fuck are you even still posting in here? you have no idea what kind of bullshit assurances the wta or the tournament organizers made to her about getting a visa.

It isn't, but I've got a new keyboard and I wanna type a lot. :D

Just joking. I'm just being rational, sorry about that. If she were really worried about defending her SF, she should have applied for a tournament she was sure to get in.

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2009, 06:17 PM
:eek: You discussing WTA schedules? :rolls: :p ;)

I'm bored. :sad:

Kitty de Sade
02-15-2009, 06:18 PM
The big names need to draw a line between principle and a payoff- boycott as a group (although I doubt it). Nothing will change otherwise.

Sickening state of affairs regardless.

zicofirol
02-15-2009, 06:24 PM
disgusting but expected... wonder if the players would boycott the tournament over this??? Off course not...

Lee
02-15-2009, 06:26 PM
That's the problem for the WTA. The WTA probably does have contractual obligations, but the WTA could issue a statement saying that they can't break their contract, but it's a matter of conscience for each individual player whether they remain to play. Then they should waive fines for withdrawals.

But the top women can afford fines. They should withdraw anyway.


I agree they should but not optimistic they would :p The contractual agreements I meant are about individual players with their sponsors. I think WTA/ATP had said before that the tournaments in Dubai agreed all players will guarantee a visa if they choose to play so WTA has every right to kill the tournament, at least, saying no players will be punished for withdrawing, etc.

zicofirol
02-15-2009, 06:29 PM
disgusting but expected... wonder if the players would boycott the tournament over this??? Off course not...

Jozie
02-15-2009, 06:39 PM
Would be so sweet if Peer held a position such as Federer or Nadal, and give Dubai the finger! Sadly, not!

Lee
02-15-2009, 06:43 PM
Anyone who disagrees with moving this thread to NT please join my petition here (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=138489)

TMJordan
02-15-2009, 06:51 PM
The players are selfish cockchimps anyways and care more about the money offered by those pieces of shit than this situation.

Jozie
02-15-2009, 07:03 PM
No. Sadly, 20 years ago, I would have sold my soul to play at this level and at a tournament such as this. I suppose who can blame the players. :sad:

scoobs
02-15-2009, 09:10 PM
Anyone who disagrees with moving this thread to NT please join my petition here (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=138489)
I think this issue is fine to discuss in GM - in general terms - but this thread is pretty much about a WTA player's specific case and so doesn't belong in GM. If people want to discuss this in terms of how it impacts the men in GM, fair enough as far as I'm concerned.

GlennMirnyi
02-15-2009, 09:28 PM
I think this issue is fine to discuss in GM - in general terms - but this thread is pretty much about a WTA player's specific case and so doesn't belong in GM. If people want to discuss this in terms of how it impacts the men in GM, fair enough as far as I'm concerned.

x 2.

Fee
02-15-2009, 09:55 PM
Neither one of these events in Dubai should exist, Doha either probably.

People should stop looking to Roger for leadership on this issue. He is not a global activist, he is a tennis player who is solely focused on his career and what is best for him. This is true of all of the top players. They don't care if Dudi Sela can't get into Dubai, they don't care if Dudi Sela can't get into to Delray Beach. They care that their appearance fee gets wired into their accounts within 60 minutes of the end of their first round match. If they cared, they NEVER would have played this event in the first place.

adee-gee
02-15-2009, 10:07 PM
On a side note Radwanska didn't get a visa to Russia (Moscow) last year but at least it was so Zvonareva could have played in the top 8 tournament... at least some cunning plan behind the rejection :lol:
Wasn't that because she fucked up her passport or something? I can't remember the exact details, I just recall it was her own fault.
The players are selfish cockchimps anyways and care more about the money offered by those pieces of shit than this situation.
Sad but true.

Jelena
02-15-2009, 10:09 PM
I think this issue is fine to discuss in GM - in general terms - but this thread is pretty much about a WTA player's specific case and so doesn't belong in GM. If people want to discuss this in terms of how it impacts the men in GM, fair enough as far as I'm concerned.
the general topic of both threads mentioned here is (in this thread it is even in the title!) United Arab Emirates refuse visa to Israeli players. The threads should be merged into one and put back into GM. Or we will put in the news in here (in NT ;)) that Andy Ram is rejected the visa again, like it was last year, (which is the topic of the thread cobalt linked) and then it obviously HAS TO be removed into GM, as it affects a ATP player. :p

Merge it and put it back into GM, that's the best solution for this.

Winston's Human
02-15-2009, 11:02 PM
The tournament should be punished because they are government-sponsored and they previously assured Peer that she would receive a visa.

If the WTA had any balls, they would issue the following punishment:
1. Suspension of the tournament for one year.
2. Fining the tournament $100,000 (the championship prize money) and awarding that money to Peer.
3. Giving Peer 800 ranking points (the championship points).

JolánGagó
02-15-2009, 11:41 PM
Disgusting. Dubai must be stripped of this tourney and the ATP one as well, this kind of discrimination must not be allowed. Let them shove their sinking islands up their asses.

WTA must do something drastic and the players ought to coordinate a collective boycott.

Another good reason for Rafa not to attend, BTW.

Anyone who disagrees with moving this thread to NT please join my petition here (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=138489)

No. This thread has no place in GM, it is so far a non-tennis matter.

Fee
02-15-2009, 11:51 PM
and so it begins again...

iSzavay.
02-16-2009, 12:01 AM
The Dubai tournament is very likely in it's last year, because of this and the absurd schedule that caused Mauresmo and Tansaugarn and possibly Mirza to withdraw

El Legenda
02-16-2009, 12:30 AM
didnt see this many people protesting when Israel murdered 1200 civilians few weeks ago.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 12:40 AM
didnt see this many people protesting when Israel murdered 1200 civilians few weeks ago.

nice trolling :lol:

khyber
02-16-2009, 12:51 AM
I can't believe that a tournament would try to get away with barring someone due to race, religion, creed, color or nationality. The WTA needs to nip this in the bud now.

habibko
02-16-2009, 01:03 AM
I'm from Saudi Arabia and I know the region better than most of you do, it's not like the Dubai officals or the tournament don't want Israelis or even Jews to come in, they would welcome them with open arms, but they fear that once they do enter, there will be headlines in every newspaper about it and speculation about the UAE government having under-the-table deals with Israel (like Qatar's reputation now) would emerge, not only that, but think of the chaos and the severe blow to UAE reputation should ANYTHING happen to Erlich and Ram, that is a severe concern.

you people should understand that the region is under war for 60 years now, there is nothing against letting sportsmen come in and participate, but there are higher concerns that force Dubai to take hard decisions, it's really out of their hands.

that said, I don't think they have denied them entrance, you are all assuming this when it didn't even happen, they were at most discouraged and we DON'T KNOW if they were given permit to enter or not, but what I said above is in case they did deny them entrance.

Fee
02-16-2009, 01:12 AM
I can't believe that a tournament would try to get away with barring someone due to race, religion, creed, color or nationality. The WTA needs to nip this in the bud now.

But they are just following the ATP's lead. Dubai did not let Andy and Yoni in last year, Peer this year. The uninjured one (I forget, is it Andy Ram?) is going to try again this year apparently, and Adam Helfant is supposed to attend the tournament. This event should not exist, on either tour, if it is not open to ALL players.

Nastasie
02-16-2009, 01:13 AM
and so it begins again...

http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2006/03/no-jews-need-apply-israels-shahar-peer.html

Apparently it's been like this for while, and if the information above is correct, the ATP and WTA have just been making statements to look appropriately indignant, but haven't taken any action at all.

Snoo Foo
02-16-2009, 01:13 AM
you people should understand that the region is under war for 60 years now, there is nothing against letting sportsmen come in and participate, but there are higher concerns that force Dubai to take hard decisions, it's really out of their hands.

It's not out of the ATP/WTA/ITF's hands. Unless and until a country can allow entry to all eligible players, these organizations should stop holding tournaments there.

cobalt60
02-16-2009, 01:15 AM
But they are just following the ATP's lead. Dubai did not let Andy and Yoni in last year, Peer this year. The uninjured one (I forget, is it Andy Ram?) is going to try again this year apparently, and Adam Helfant is supposed to attend the tournament. This event should not exist, on either tour, if it is not open to ALL players.

;) I answered you when you asked on another thread but it is Erlich ( elbow)
Andy has been playing with Max M and now Julian Knowle.

Fee
02-16-2009, 01:17 AM
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2006/03/no-jews-need-apply-israels-shahar-peer.html

Apparently it's been like this for while, and if the information above is correct, the ATP and WTA have just been making statements to look appropriately indignant, but haven't taken any action at all.

Yes it has been like this since the tournaments were started and every year it gets brought up again, and every year nothing happens. $$$$$$$$ is more important than the ATP rulebook.

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 01:17 AM
i feel sick

Chip_s_m
02-16-2009, 01:18 AM
I'm from Saudi Arabia and I know the region better than most of you do, it's not like the Dubai officals or the tournament don't want Israelis or even Jews to come in, they would welcome them with open arms, but they fear that once they do enter, there will be headlines in every newspaper about it and speculation about the UAE government having under-the-table deals with Israel (like Qatar's reputation now) would emerge, not only that, but think of the chaos and the severe blow to UAE reputation should ANYTHING happen to Erlich and Ram, that is a severe concern.

you people should understand that the region is under war for 60 years now, there is nothing against letting sportsmen come in and participate, but there are higher concerns that force Dubai to take hard decisions, it's really out of their hands.

that said, I don't think they have denied them entrance, you are all assuming this when it didn't even happen, they were at most discouraged and we DON'T KNOW if they were given permit to enter or not, but what I said above is in case they did deny them entrance.

If it is true that the tournament is discouraging or forbidding Israelis from playing (and you do bring up a good point that this is all speculation and based on circumstantial evidence--we really don't know what's going on), then the ATP should really be considering whether or not this is a stable enough region to be holding a tournament. It is a serious cause for concern if players cannot be secure at an ATP event.

Winston's Human
02-16-2009, 01:18 AM
I'm from Saudi Arabia and I know the region better than most of you do, it's not like the Dubai officals or the tournament don't want Israelis or even Jews to come in, they would welcome them with open arms, but they fear that once they do enter, there will be headlines in every newspaper about it and speculation about the UAE government having under-the-table deals with Israel (like Qatar's reputation now) would emerge, not only that, but think of the chaos and the severe blow to UAE reputation should ANYTHING happen to Erlich and Ram, that is a severe concern.

you people should understand that the region is under war for 60 years now, there is nothing against letting sportsmen come in and participate, but there are higher concerns that force Dubai to take hard decisions, it's really out of their hands.

that said, I don't think they have denied them entrance, you are all assuming this when it didn't even happen, they were at most discouraged and we DON'T KNOW if they were given permit to enter or not, but what I said above is in case they did deny them entrance.

If Dubai will not open its tournament to all eligible players and if Dubai cannot protect them, then they should not be hosting an ATP or WTA tournament.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 01:20 AM
there is nothing against letting sportsmen come in and participate, but there are higher concerns that force Dubai to take hard decisions, it's really out of their hands.

Then the UAE shouldn't organize any sport event. There are many mutual "enemies" around the world, the standard practice isn't denying visas to participants from countries at odds with the organizer country. This is discriminatory and completely out of place in sport competitions.

Let Dubai organize the Sand Filling World Championship.

star
02-16-2009, 01:33 AM
I only wanted to say that many of the housemaids are mistreated. They don't have any free day, they are abused (also, but not only sexually), they are miserably paid etc. etc....

And some not paid at all because their owners -- excuse me, employers think giving them room and board is pay enough. The importation of foreign servants and subsequent abuse of them has been going on for years all over the region. It's not unique to Dubai.

I'm from Saudi Arabia and I know the region better than most of you do, it's not like the Dubai officals or the tournament don't want Israelis or even Jews to come in, they would welcome them with open arms, but they fear that once they do enter, there will be headlines in every newspaper about it and speculation about the UAE government having under-the-table deals with Israel (like Qatar's reputation now) would emerge, not only that, but think of the chaos and the severe blow to UAE reputation should ANYTHING happen to Erlich and Ram, that is a severe concern.

you people should understand that the region is under war for 60 years now, there is nothing against letting sportsmen come in and participate, but there are higher concerns that force Dubai to take hard decisions, it's really out of their hands.

that said, I don't think they have denied them entrance, you are all assuming this when it didn't even happen, they were at most discouraged and we DON'T KNOW if they were given permit to enter or not, but what I said above is in case they did deny them entrance.

I respect your knowledge of the situation, and I have sympathies for the enormous complexity of the situation. I'm sure the Gaza incursion makes it even more tense just now. My problem with it, however, is that Dubai decided to hold an international sporting event knowing that the expectation was that any qualified player, regardless of nationality or ethnicity, would have the ability to participate. I understand their concerns for admitting Israelis into the country, but in that case, they shouldn't be hosting the event. It's either one way or the other. Give up the tournament, or admit all qualified players.

But, excuse my ignorance, are ethnic jews of other nations allowed entry into Dubai?

nobama
02-16-2009, 01:34 AM
If Dubai will not open its tournament to all eligible players and if Dubai cannot protect them, then they should not be hosting an ATP or WTA tournament.Amen.

habibko
02-16-2009, 01:35 AM
Then the UAE shouldn't organize any sport event. There are many mutual "enemies" around the world, the standard practice isn't denying visas to participants from countries at odds with the organizer country. This is discriminatory and completely out of place in sport competitions.

Let Dubai organize the Sand Filling World Championship.

again you - among others - are assuming they denied them entrance when they didn't.

Chip_s_m
02-16-2009, 01:35 AM
And some not paid at all because their owners -- excuse me, employers think giving them room and board is pay enough. The importation of foreign servants and subsequent abuse of them has been going on for years all over the region. It's not unique to Dubai.



I respect your knowledge of the situation, and I have sympathies for the enormous complexity of the situation. I'm sure the Gaza incursion makes it even more tense just now. My problem with it, however, is that Dubai decided to hold an international sporting event knowing that the expectation was that any qualified player, regardless of nationality or ethnicity, would have the ability to participate. I understand their concerns for admitting Israelis into the country, but in that case, they shouldn't be hosting the event. It's either one way or the other. Give up the tournament, or admit all qualified players.

But, excuse my ignorance, are ethnic jews of other nations allowed entry into Dubai?

Jesse Levine is Jewish and went over to Dubai to train with Federer last year. I didn't hear of any problems with that, although he did not play the Dubai tournament.

nobama
02-16-2009, 01:36 AM
But, excuse my ignorance, are ethnic jews of other nations allowed entry into Dubai?My understanding is only Israeli nationals are banned from entry into UAE. Not sure if there are exceptions.

habibko
02-16-2009, 01:40 AM
But, excuse my ignorance, are ethnic jews of other nations allowed entry into Dubai?

yes they are allowed in Dubai, Saudi Arabia and even in Iran. the problem is not with the religion but with the nationality, even Arab-Israelis are denied entrance.

star
02-16-2009, 01:40 AM
again you - among others - are assuming they denied them entrance when they didn't.

I know I am thinking more about Peer than these two. Perhaps others are too. I would hope that we could have this discussion without casting aspersions on anyone. It seems to me that Dubai wanted international sporting events to boost it's prestige and attract tourists. In a way, it's a sign of the leaders wanting to open the country to the would rather than remaining a closed society. As I understand your post, there are pressures on Dubai preventing it from admitting Israelis. If you could, would you explain those pressures and where they come from? I know that would be instructive to me.

star
02-16-2009, 01:41 AM
yes they are allowed in Dubai, Saudi Arabia and even in Iran. the problem is not with the religion but with the nationality.

Thank you. :)

nobama
02-16-2009, 01:41 AM
But they are just following the ATP's lead. Dubai did not let Andy and Yoni in last year, Peer this year. The uninjured one (I forget, is it Andy Ram?) is going to try again this year apparently, and Adam Helfant is supposed to attend the tournament. This event should not exist, on either tour, if it is not open to ALL players.Did they actually apply for a visa and get denied? I don't remember it getting a lot of attention. Anyway I'm glad the issue is getting attention now. But since Dubai Duty Free is a major sponsor of the WTA tour I don't see them doing anything about it. :(

habibko
02-16-2009, 01:50 AM
As I understand your post, there are pressures on Dubai preventing it from admitting Israelis. If you could, would you explain those pressures and where they come from? I know that would be instructive to me.

until a short time ago, Israeli citizens were freely allowed to enter the UAE and especially Dubai (they did lay low on an offical and media level) now after the recent war in Gaza all Arab countries have taken measures against Israel (for example Qatar decreased the level of relations with Israel) and this recent incidents like denying Shahar Peer is related to the recent circumstances and aftermath of the war in Gaza.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 01:53 AM
again you - among others - are assuming they denied them entrance when they didn't.

They just refused Peer a visa.

Anyway failing to give any answer until it's too late and other dilatory tactics should also desqualify any country for organizing anything.

bizzle
02-16-2009, 01:55 AM
Did they actually apply for a visa and get denied? I don't remember it getting a lot of attention. Anyway I'm glad the issue is getting attention now. But since Dubai Duty Free is a major sponsor of the WTA tour I don't see them doing anything about it. :(

Well they are supposed to be reviewing Dubai's future as a WTA event, but I agree that due to sponsorships etc, nothing will be done :mad: I'm not sure about Erlich and Ram, but Peer did everything she was supposed to do regarding her visa, but they simply rejected her :o

habibko
02-16-2009, 02:02 AM
I suppose since they denied Peer a visa then if Erlich and Ram tried to get one they will be denied too.

I'm not sure about this, but have Israel always been denied from participating in Dubai tennis championships throughout its history? can someone confirm this?

nobama
02-16-2009, 02:04 AM
until a short time ago, Israeli citizens were freely allowed to enter the UAE and especially Dubai (they did lay low on an offical and media level) now after the recent war in Gaza all Arab countries have taken measures against Israel (for example Qatar decreased the level of relations with Israel) and this recent incidents like denying Shahar Peer is related to the recent circumstances and aftermath of the war in Gaza.Still wrong though. Peer isn't responsible for the actions of her government. All she wants to do is play tennis and make a living. I blame the WTA and the tournament organizers for not making sure she would be able to play if she qualified.

Boarder35m
02-16-2009, 02:07 AM
again you - among others - are assuming they denied them entrance when they didn't.

Well that is true for Ram and Erlich (who I think is injured at the moment), but the example with Peer shows that it is indeed not really self-evident to get into the UAE as an Israeli citizen.

The problem is that the tournament tries to advertise with its openness and the fact that not all players can enter speaks against this, even if some tournament official may not have ay probelms with israeli players at all.

As hard as it may sound but if a country doesn´t fulfill the rules of the ATP it may not host a tennis tournament of that importance (it is in fact an ATP 500 tournament)

habibko
02-16-2009, 02:14 AM
well I guess (and hope) they will think of this incident as an exception due to the circumstances and things will be better in years to come, cancelling the event based on one incident is harsh and a huge loss to Tennis in the region which is already small enough.

I wish people would not take the piss at the tournament and understand that it is bigger than the organizers and out of their hands, it's like not holding the slams at the times of WWI and WWII, special circumstances shouldn't lead to cancelling events.

nobama
02-16-2009, 02:21 AM
well I guess (and hope) they will think of this incident as an exception due to the circumstances and things will be better in years to come, cancelling the event based on one incident is harsh and a huge loss to Tennis in the region which is already small enough.

I wish people would not take the piss at the tournament and understand that it is bigger than the organizers and out of their hands, it's like not holding the slams at the times of WWI and WWII, special circumstances shouldn't lead to cancelling events.No, the piss should be taking at the WTA and ATP which whore themselves out to whoever will put up the most $$$$$.

habibko
02-16-2009, 02:26 AM
No, the piss should be taking at the WTA and ATP which whore themselves out to whoever will put up the most $$$$$.

I thought all people are like that :rolleyes:

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 02:35 AM
To me, it is irrelevant that we are talking about Dubai and an Israeli player. The countries don't matter. To me, the problem is that an eligible player is not being allowed entry into a country purely based on citizenship (or some other similarly arbitrary distinction unrelated to tennis rules). The issue is that the tours are making gobs of money off these events, and so are the players who are getting paid as much as $1million USD just to show up and one of their colleagues cannot compete. It's not a political issue, it's a sports issue. If a tournament in the US south said no blacks can play, I guarantee that tournament would lose its rights. If the new tournament in Serbia said no Croatians can play or if the Zagreb event said no Serbians can play, I imagine that these tournaments would face sanctions. So the problem here is that I perceive a double standard, that these events are so money-rich that the tours 'can't say no' to them, despite the heads of the tours clearly stating that everyone must be able to play a particular event.

So habibko, while I do think you are right that those of us who don't live in the region can't truly understand the conflict there and what it does to all of the societies involved, I don't think it matters. Nor do I think the history of the relationships between the countries matter. The issue is with the tours allowing these events there. The issue is with the tournament organization for not working something out with the government to allow an exemption for these players to freely play there. And if the government is unwilling to budge, then the tours should withdraw their sanctioning of these events. Because sports is all about the happy coming together of people from various cultures and countries and religions to compete for the love of the sport. we see it all the time in tennis and many other sporting events, when people can look past these conflicts to simply play the sport and entertain the fans. This BS has no place in sports, and if the government can't see that, then these events have no place in any country that would do this.

Boarder35m
02-16-2009, 02:39 AM
well I guess (and hope) they will think of this incident as an exception due to the circumstances and things will be better in years to come, cancelling the event based on one incident is harsh and a huge loss to Tennis in the region which is already small enough.

I wish people would not take the piss at the tournament and understand that it is bigger than the organizers and out of their hands, it's like not holding the slams at the times of WWI and WWII, special circumstances shouldn't lead to cancelling events.

To be honest I don´t that it will change until next year. As far as I know UAE are among other countries who do not recognise Israel as a state. It will stay very complicated for Israeli citizens to enter UAE.

Like I said before I don´t think that all officials from the tournament are happy about Peers visa rejection and the fact that Ram and Erlich didn´t even try last year because they probably were afraid of getting a rejection. But they started a tournament and tried everything to get it bigger and bigger and if they want to stay on the calender they have to stick to the rules.


No, the piss should be taking at the WTA and ATP which whore themselves out to whoever will put up the most $$$$$.

Of course you are generally right, but in this case both ATP and WTA wanted an OK from the tournament organisation that Peer and Ram/Erlich could play.
Of course you can blame them for asking the wrong person, it should have been the ministry of foreign affairs of UAE.

Snoo Foo
02-16-2009, 02:45 AM
NYT article (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/sports/tennis/16araton.html?ref=sports)

A Political Swing at One Player Sours a Tournament for All
By HARVEY ARATON

As freshly strung racket strings pummeled defenseless balls Sunday, a more sinister tension was striking at the heart of women’s tennis. The show went on in Dubai but with Middle East politics as its top-ranked headline, with a player taken from the draw for the crime of being from the wrong country.

Shahar Peer, an Israeli, was scheduled to play a Russian, Anna Chakvetadze, in the first round Monday of the Barclays Dubai Tennis Championships, a major stop on the early-season circuit that features all but one of the top-10 players. Peer, ranked 48th, had planned to play this $2 million tournament for some time, but there was always the specter of real-world invasion, the matter of a visa being granted to a Jewish player traveling on an Israeli passport. That had never happened in Dubai, which is part of the United Arab Emirates. Larry Scott, the chairman and chief executive officer of the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour, said Sunday that he told officials of the seven-year-old tournament that it had to happen now.

“We knew it was an issue, but we made it clear that she was going to be in the draw and we wanted to be optimistic that she would get the visa,” Scott said. “Then they waited until the 11th hour to deny it.”

Just like that, the glitter and promise of Dubai as an emerging international sports center evaporated into the cool desert night. The tour had a decision to make with almost a full complement of competitors, 55 of 56, in or on their way into town, ready to play the Premier 5 event, what Scott called “one of our nine biggest tournaments after the four slams.”

In a telephone interview, Scott said a response of canceling the tournament was immediately discussed, but Peer and her family called for caution. “They didn’t want all the players to be harmed because of one,” Scott said. “We talked to our players and told them that something terrible has happened here, but every single one would be punished if we were to cancel.”

Next year, Scott seemed to say, will be a different story.

“I made it clear to them that if Shahar were not allowed to play, they would run the risk of losing their tournament,” Scott said. “It would be a big blow to lose one of this prestige and money, but if it comes to the principles of fairness and openness, there can be no compromise.”

If this is Scott’s nonnegotiable position, then tour stalwarts need to be right behind him, as Venus Williams appeared to be when the news broke in Dubai.

“All the players support Shahar,” Williams said. “We are all athletes, and we stand for tennis.”

They need to support the tour, in whatever direction it goes, no doubt knowing which way that should be.

Scott wasn’t surprised that Williams was so quick to the defense of Peer, or any peer. She has grown into a senior presence, a leader in the fight for equal prize money. More than most, she and her sister Serena have had to hit their way past ancient, prejudicial attitudes. But the women should collectively recognize how dangerous a precedent it would be to finesse this issue, compromise in the interests of maintaining a prize revenue stream, even in the face of global recession.

For one thing, tennis does big business in American markets — think New York, Los Angeles and Miami — with large Jewish populations. The men, who follow the women to Dubai next week, may want to remember that, too, along with the companies that sponsor these events.

Scott had done business in Dubai since the early 1990s when he worked to create the men’s tour stop. He could only guess why the powers that be drew a hard line in the sand over Peer, stepped back from commercial ambitions that created the Dubai Sports City and even floated the idea of a bid for the 2016 Summer Olympics they never did make.

No doubt the Israeli invasion of Gaza made it harder there for progressives. In detailing the devastating effects the financial downturn has had on the Dubai economy, The New York Times recently reported on a rollback on news media freedoms and government policies.

“It’s a complicated world we live in,” Scott said, and always thorny when it comes to Israelis and international sport.

We have seen Olympic officials turn into ostriches when Iranians have packed up their gym bags when matched with an Israeli. When it comes to basketball, a sport Israel loves and happens to be pretty good at, its teams get relocated to Europe, a region it has almost no chance to survive.

Tennis, though, is a globetrotting sport of individuals, choosing its tour stops based on merit and good will. Last year, Peer did play in Doha, Qatar, which at the time had low-level ties with Israel. She was the first Israeli to play in a Gulf-Arab state. She has also played doubles with Sania Mirza, a Muslim from India in a partnership that has evoked cheers and jeers.

Just last month, Peer faced a small, noisy protest of Israel’s Gaza incursion during a tournament in Aukland, New Zealand. There is always going to be international conflict, and athletes in the middle. But they can’t be abandoned there when there is a choice. Tennis should finish its business in the Gulf this month, and say bye-bye, Dubai.

Fee
02-16-2009, 03:00 AM
perhaps some of you who question whether this is a new thing should look at the first page of this thread?

On the official tourism site of the Dubai Visitors Office it clearly states that anyone holding an Israeli passport will not be allowed in. I know that has been there for at least a few years because I have mentioned it on this very forum in this past. It's been written about by Wertheim and Bodo as far back as 2006. Peer was NOT refused her Visa because of recent events in Gaza, she was refused for the same reason that Andy & Yoni were last year, because she holds an Israeli passport.

Both of these tournaments are in direct violation of the WTA and ATP rulebooks. Both of these events should be taken off the calendar after this year. Its that simple.

habibko
02-16-2009, 03:02 AM
To me, it is irrelevant that we are talking about Dubai and an Israeli player. The countries don't matter. To me, the problem is that an eligible player is not being allowed entry into a country purely based on citizenship (or some other similarly arbitrary distinction unrelated to tennis rules). The issue is that the tours are making gobs of money off these events, and so are the players who are getting paid as much as $1million USD just to show up and one of their colleagues cannot compete. It's not a political issue, it's a sports issue. If a tournament in the US south said no blacks can play, I guarantee that tournament would lose its rights. If the new tournament in Serbia said no Croatians can play or if the Zagreb event said no Serbians can play, I imagine that these tournaments would face sanctions. So the problem here is that I perceive a double standard, that these events are so money-rich that the tours 'can't say no' to them, despite the heads of the tours clearly stating that everyone must be able to play a particular event.

So habibko, while I do think you are right that those of us who don't live in the region can't truly understand the conflict there and what it does to all of the societies involved, I don't think it matters. Nor do I think the history of the relationships between the countries matter. The issue is with the tours allowing these events there. The issue is with the tournament organization for not working something out with the government to allow an exemption for these players to freely play there. And if the government is unwilling to budge, then the tours should withdraw their sanctioning of these events. Because sports is all about the happy coming together of people from various cultures and countries and religions to compete for the love of the sport. we see it all the time in tennis and many other sporting events, when people can look past these conflicts to simply play the sport and entertain the fans. This BS has no place in sports, and if the government can't see that, then these events have no place in any country that would do this.

I don't agree with the incident of course, all I'm saying is that maybe it will be looked upon as a special incident due to special circumstances and won't lead to loss of the event, it's not like the tournament has declared that no Israeli can participate in it ever like your examples with blacks and Croats, it was a government issue that the tournament had no hand in, I do wish this will be solved somehow sooner or later, I don't wish for the loss of the tournament (the easiest way for me to watch live tennis :sad: same with many others like me) thats all.

habibko
02-16-2009, 03:05 AM
perhaps some of you who question whether this is a new thing should look at the first page of this thread?

On the official tourism site of the Dubai Visitors Office it clearly states that anyone holding an Israeli passport will not be allowed in. I know that has been there for at least a few years because I have mentioned it on this very forum in this past. It's been written about by Wertheim and Bodo as far back as 2006. Peer was NOT refused her Visa because of recent events in Gaza, she was refused for the same reason that Andy & Yoni were last year, because she holds an Israeli passport.

Both of these tournaments are in direct violation of the WTA and ATP rulebooks. Both of these events should be taken off the calendar after this year. Its that simple.

that rule is the offical story when in reality and practice they ARE granted entrance, and last year the players backed off and no one denied them a visa.

Snoo Foo
02-16-2009, 03:08 AM
that rule is the offical story when in reality and practice they ARE granted entrance, and last year the players backed off and no one denied them a visa.

So where's Shahar's visa?

Fee
02-16-2009, 03:08 AM
that rule is the offical story when in reality and practice they ARE granted entrance, and last year the players backed off and no one denied them a visa.

They did not back off. They were not given the papers they needed to enter the country. They never even got on the plane.

habibko
02-16-2009, 03:13 AM
So where's Shahar's visa?

I mean in the past, now after the war on Gaza things have been different.

They did not back off. They were not given the papers they needed to enter the country. They never even got on the plane.

I didn't know that from what I read, that matter last year was vague and there were no clear answers either from the players or from the officials.

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 03:18 AM
I don't agree with the incident of course, all I'm saying is that maybe it will be looked upon as a special incident due to special circumstances and won't lead to loss of the event, it's not like the tournament has declared that no Israeli can participate in it ever like your examples with blacks and Croats, it was a government issue that the tournament had no hand in, I do wish this will be solved somehow sooner or later, I don't wish for the loss of the tournament (the easiest way for me to watch live tennis :sad: same with many others like me) thats all.How can it possibly be looked upon as a special or unique incident? Then the tours would essentially be saying, it's ok for the middle east to prevent an Israeli but if a similar thing were to happen somewhere else, that would not be OK. Surely they cannot do that. Yes, the Middle East is a perhaps unique situation worldwide in the political or religious sense, but the tours cannot recognize that; they should see it as a black and white issue of, our rules are not being followed, this cannot be allowed to continue, period. My analogy still stands. If Croatia denied Djokovic a visa to compete in Zagreb because he is Serbian, I guarantee the tours would not let it go on. They cannot let this go on - unfortunately, it has already gone on too long.

I understand your predicament of wanting to go to this tournament, but this is a bigger issue. They can't just give this tournament a pass and based on the NYTimes article SnooFoo so kindly posted, Larry Scott is not willing to - I hope he's not just paying lip service and that he'll actually do something here. In fact I think it is quite noble of players like Peer and Erlich and Ram who WANTED to bridge this gap, who WANTED to go there and play so badly, and who cannot. I also think it is noble of Peer to ask that the tourney not be canceled, to not make the other players suffer for her. Tennis is such an individual sport, I think it is not up to each player (while it would be nice to see some of them forgo the huge payday, I dont think they have any obligation to in a sport where it is last man or woman standing), I think it is up to the tours to enforce their rules.I didn't know that from what I read, that matter last year was vague and there were no clear answers either from the players or from the officials.Last year, Erlich and Ram were fairly blunt in saying that they were asked by the ATP to not pursue entry into Dubai any further. This strongly suggests to me that they were either going to be denied entry, or that the ATP didn't feel like fighting for them. Either way, it's 100% wrong and unacceptable. Unless you don't believe Erlich and Ram, I think what they said last year is pretty clear.

Fee
02-16-2009, 03:21 AM
I didn't know that from what I read, that matter last year was vague and there were no clear answers either from the players or from the officials.

Then you need to do more reading.


Where is MATT CRONIN??? The one time we need him to post something instead of lurking and he's probably somewhere in San Jose watching a doubles match...

Boarder35m
02-16-2009, 03:24 AM
I didn't know that from what I read, that matter last year was vague and there were no clear answers either from the players or from the officials.

Well, but exactly that is the point. That is what Ram was complaining about.

Imagine you are a tennis player and you are preparing for a tournament and you will have to wait for a visa or better for the permission to enter the country only in the last minute. It is for sure no good preparation, knowing that you might be denied permission to enter the country.

Once again I understand what you want to say, knowing that you are far better informed in this topic, but it is just not fair on the basis of the tennis sports rules.

habibko
02-16-2009, 03:27 AM
Then you need to do more reading.


Where is MATT CRONIN??? The one time we need him to post something instead of lurking and he's probably somewhere in San Jose watching a doubles match...

care to enlighten me with a source stating the "denied papers" issue?

habibko
02-16-2009, 03:36 AM
How can it possibly be looked upon as a special or unique incident? Then the tours would essentially be saying, it's ok for the middle east to prevent an Israeli but if a similar thing were to happen somewhere else, that would not be OK. Surely they cannot do that. Yes, the Middle East is a perhaps unique situation worldwide in the political or religious sense, but the tours cannot recognize that; they should see it as a black and white issue of, our rules are not being followed, this cannot be allowed to continue, period. My analogy still stands. If Croatia denied Djokovic a visa to compete in Zagreb because he is Serbian, I guarantee the tours would not let it go on. They cannot let this go on - unfortunately, it has already gone on too long.

I understand your predicament of wanting to go to this tournament, but this is a bigger issue. They can't just give this tournament a pass and based on the NYTimes article SnooFoo so kindly posted, Larry Scott is not willing to - I hope he's not just paying lip service and that he'll actually do something here. In fact I think it is quite noble of players like Peer and Erlich and Ram who WANTED to bridge this gap, who WANTED to go there and play so badly, and who cannot. I also think it is noble of Peer to ask that the tourney not be canceled, to not make the other players suffer for her. Tennis is such an individual sport, I think it is not up to each player (while it would be nice to see some of them forgo the huge payday, I dont think they have any obligation to in a sport where it is last man or woman standing), I think it is up to the tours to enforce their rules.Last year, Erlich and Ram were fairly blunt in saying that they were asked by the ATP to not pursue entry into Dubai any further. This strongly suggests to me that they were either going to be denied entry, or that the ATP didn't feel like fighting for them. Either way, it's 100% wrong and unacceptable. Unless you don't believe Erlich and Ram, I think what they said last year is pretty clear.

what can I say, you are right.

Fee
02-16-2009, 03:43 AM
care to enlighten me with a source stating the "denied papers" issue?

'denied papers' is a generic term, but read the links in the first post of this thread.

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 03:46 AM
Then you need to do more reading.


Where is MATT CRONIN??? The one time we need him to post something instead of lurking and he's probably somewhere in San Jose watching a doubles match...Wasn't Pete Bodo the one who ranted on this many times? I'm sure he'll be on this one soon.

ChampionshipPoints
02-16-2009, 03:50 AM
Here is what Larry Scott, CEO of the WTA, had to say about the matter, according to the NY Times:

In a telephone interview, Scott said a response of canceling the tournament was immediately discussed, but Peer and her family called for caution. “They didn’t want all the players to be harmed because of one,” Scott said. “We talked to our players and told them that something terrible has happened here, but every single one would be punished if we were to cancel.”

Next year, Scott seemed to say, will be a different story.

“I made it clear to them that if Shahar were not allowed to play, they would run the risk of losing their tournament,” Scott said. “It would be a big blow to lose one of this prestige and money, but if it comes to the principles of fairness and openness, there can be no compromise.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/16/sports/tennis/16araton.html?_r=1&ref=sports

Fee
02-16-2009, 03:50 AM
Wasn't Pete Bodo the one who ranted on this many times? I'm sure he'll be on this one soon.

Yes Bodo brings it up every year, but Robson is the one who has stuck on the investigative trail and reports back on it from time to time. I just mentioned Cronin because we know he lurks here and perhaps he would chime in for once with whatever he knows on this topic.

Chip_s_m
02-16-2009, 04:37 AM
I don't agree with the incident of course, all I'm saying is that maybe it will be looked upon as a special incident due to special circumstances and won't lead to loss of the event, it's not like the tournament has declared that no Israeli can participate in it ever like your examples with blacks and Croats, it was a government issue that the tournament had no hand in, I do wish this will be solved somehow sooner or later, I don't wish for the loss of the tournament (the easiest way for me to watch live tennis :sad: same with many others like me) thats all.

You're right, it is a government decision. Regardless, it is inappropriate for the ATP, WTA, or any international sporting organization to hold an event in a region where all of the players it represents cannot participate. It would suck for the tournament if it is canceled since it appears to support the Israeli players. Unfortunately that is the risk tournament organizers took when they decided to establish an event in the UAE.

FiBeR
02-16-2009, 04:49 AM
interesting subject.. for once!

habibko
02-16-2009, 05:08 AM
didnt see this many people protesting when Israel murdered 1200 civilians few weeks ago.

sad and true.

Snoo Foo
02-16-2009, 05:35 AM
didnt see this many people protesting when Israel murdered 1200 civilians few weeks ago.

sad and true.

Right (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=135287).

bobbynorwich
02-16-2009, 05:36 AM
Pattaya Open semi-finalist Shahar Peer has been denied access to Dubai for a major women's tournament because she is Israeli.

The 21-year-old world number 48 broke barriers last year in Qatar by becoming the first Israeli woman to play in a WTA Tour tournament in the Gulf.

But she has had her visa application for Sunday's Dubai Tennis Championship rejected by the United Arab Emirates because of her nationality.

She had been drawn to play 15th-seeded Anna Chakvetadze on Monday in the first round of the joint ATP and WTA event, but Japan's Ayumi Morita has now taken that spot.

"Ms. Peer has earned the right to play in the tournament and it's regrettable that the UAE is denying her this right," WTA chief executive Larry Scott said.

"Ms. Peer and her family are obviously extremely upset and disappointed by the decision of the UAE and its impact on her personally and professionally.

"The WTA believes very strongly and has a clear rule and policy that no host country should deny a player the right to compete in a tournament for which she has qualified by ranking."

The tournament is still scheduled to open on Sunday, but WTA tour officials are to review appropriate future actions with regard to the future of the Dubai tournament.


Protest Sony Ericsson and WTA’s continued sponsorship of Dubai tournament after UAE denied a qualified player's visa.

Ericsson: Contact its corporate officer in Sweden (International Headquarter) at this email address:

Åse Lindskog
Vice President, head of corporate public and media relations
Email: press.relations@ericsson.com

Women’s Tennis Association : http://www.sonyericssonwtatour.com/

Dubai tournament: http://www.barclaysdubaitennischampionships.com/4/contact/.

Sponsors: http://www.barclaysdubaitennischampionships.com/4/sponsors/

Please post these names and email addresses on other forums that you read. Let's get it going!

Chip_s_m
02-16-2009, 05:43 AM
I just created an online petition to be mailed to the ATP and WTA requesting that future tournaments not be held in the UAE (or any country) that does not allow all qualified players to compete. You can sign it here:

http://www.gopetition.com/online/25362.html

Tell everyone you know. It is inappropriate for an international sports organization to endorse an event in which all qualified players cannot participate because of their nationality.

Chip_s_m
02-16-2009, 05:46 AM
I just created an online petition to be mailed to the ATP and WTA requesting that future tournaments not be held in the UAE (or any country) that does not allow all qualified players to compete. You can sign it here:

http://www.gopetition.com/online/25362.html

Tell everyone you know. It is inappropriate for an international sports organization to endorse an event in which all qualified players cannot participate.

MIMIC
02-16-2009, 05:53 AM
Wow. That's pretty disgusting. :banghead:

orangehat
02-16-2009, 07:22 AM
I thought they were already considering not renewing Dubai's participation in next year's tour? That's what I read on the BBC anyway.

Personally, I find this very annoying even though it's nothing new in sports.

jmf07
02-16-2009, 07:23 AM
Please. I know it is wrong but why take it out on Sony Ericsson and the WTA. Were they meant to predict that this would happen and take the risky decision of not giving the tournament to Dubai. If the WTA had cancelled the tournament before this incident they probably would have copped flak for doing it based on guessing that this incident would occur.

And now that it has happened they can't exactly cancel the event after most of the players have arrived in Dubai and expect them to have waste their money and time by flying to Dubai and then be told there is no event.

The only organization you should be criticizing over this is the Dubai tournament and not the WTA or Sony Ericsson.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 07:47 AM
This nonsense must stop. This tournament must disappear from next year calendar if the UAE don't guarantee in writing entry visa and equal conditions for all qualified players regardless of nationality or any other non-tennis issue. Let them shove their obscene gold-plated now empty monstruous hotels up their golden asses.

Nuff said.

Petition signed.

yonexforever
02-16-2009, 08:28 AM
what can I say, you are right.

Conclusion was perhaps right but the example of an American tournament in the US South denying entry to Blacks isn't quite the same, since an American Black wouldn't need a visa to get in the US!!!
:wavey:

yonexforever
02-16-2009, 08:30 AM
The dirt is in the details here... it's all one big nasty CASH GRAB by the powers that be.....
shhhhhh

Doctor Dance
02-16-2009, 08:39 AM
Shame..

Politics and sport mix :(

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 09:52 AM
The thing is, I'm not sure Shahar wants or is able to handle being the Israeli girl to bring Dubai to his knees. IF they cave in - good. If they won't and the tournament gets canceled... I'm not sure that's what she needs.

Honestly, that's a bad situation for an Israeli tennis player that has to play tournaments in Asia for the next 10 years or so. Security wise, I mean.

omar behroozian
02-16-2009, 10:44 AM
i personally think that peer should have been given a special entry in the tournament coz at the end of the day sports has nothing to do with politics.... but what i wanna say is that there are over 200 nationalities in dubai these days and if u ask the majority of them, they will tell u that theyre loving it here and that everything is good here. so u guys all sitting wherever u are and saying dubai is racist or extremist or whatever is totally out of line. every1 is entitled to his opininon but that is if u actually lived here for a while or something. u can't have an opinion on a country just beacause of 1 incident. im saying this coz im from dubai and im not trying to defend dubai at all, im just saying that its fair enough to say dubai was wrong in this incident but to say all these things about being racist or whatever is just complete bullshit.

habibko
02-16-2009, 10:56 AM
The thing is, I'm not sure Shahar wants or is able to handle being the Israeli girl to bring Dubai to his knees. IF they cave in - good. If they won't and the tournament gets canceled... I'm not sure that's what she needs.

Honestly, that's a bad situation for an Israeli tennis player that has to play tournaments in Asia for the next 10 years or so. Security wise, I mean.

yep, they should protest to their government to stop being mass murderers so they can have no problems around.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 11:26 AM
yep, they should protest to their government to stop being mass murderers so they can have no problems around.

This kind of bullshit is so f***ing out of place I can hardly believe Im reading it here. WTF has Peer to do with Israeli goverment actions? Are you as a Saudi willing to be held responsible whereaver you go for all the actions or lack thereof of your goverment? what about Saudi footballers being held responsible for Bin Laden and his boys actions? what about you being held responsible for the inhumane public executions your goverment carries out every week? Please stop the bullshit, this is TENNIS, it has nothing to do with politics. Peer earned her place in that tournament playing tennis and neither WTA or ATP should have any business with goverments mixing tennis with their own political interests.

Ilovetheblues_86
02-16-2009, 11:40 AM
Sports shouldn´t be confused with politics, but that never happens.:o

habibko
02-16-2009, 11:50 AM
This kind of bullshit is so f***ing out of place I can hardly believe Im reading it here. WTF has Peer to do with Israeli goverment actions? Are you as a Saudi willing to be held responsible whereaver you go for all the actions or lack thereof of your goverment? what about Saudi footballers being held responsible for Bin Laden and his boys actions? what about you being held responsible for the inhumane public executions your goverment carries out every week? Please stop the bullshit, this is TENNIS, it has nothing to do with politics. Peer earned her place in that tournament playing tennis and neither WTA or ATP should have any business with goverments mixing tennis with their own political interests.

whoa whoa hold your horses man, where did I say I hold her responsible or she should pay the price? don't put words in my mouth, I wish you were this angry when it mattered when the war was happening but oh well thats offtopic, but this denying visa incident was related to that so if sportsmen want to control their destiny with their own hands they can speak out a little, thats a little suggestion from me, no need to get that worked out against me or my country :)

TheMuzz
02-16-2009, 12:02 PM
I realise I'm probably swimming against the tide here, judging from most of the comments on this thread, but I'm with habibko on this one.

While it is obviously not ideal that ATP or WTA players be refused entry to states where tournaments for which they are eligible are being held, these are exceptional circumstances. It is only through the complete severence of political ties with Israel that states (and the international community in general) can effectively show their condemnation for the actions of that state. Sport and politics are not easy bed-fellows, but I don't think it is right for tennis to carry on regardless amidst humanitarian catastrophe. I'm not sure what happened tennis-wise during the apartheid in South Africa, but I wouldn't have been against South African players being denied entry to countries that had rightly severed relations with that regime.

There are bigger issues here than tennis. While the Israeli players themselves are of course not to blame, refusing entry to high-profile individuals such as athletes can help to put pressure on the Israeli state. It is for the government of that country to cease its immoral and illegal actions if it wishes to avoid action being taken vicariously against its nationals. The international community must take all reasonably practicable steps to ensure that the suffering in Palestine does not continue, and this may legitimately involve restricting the entry of Israeli nationals to their territories.

Note also that there are other tournaments being held the same week as Dubai which Israeli citizens would have no problem in entering (albeit that the rewards available aren't as high). The effect that this decision has upon these highly-paid and generally privileged individuals should not be over-estimated. Are there any Palestinian pro tennis players? Are they allowed to travel?

To support tennis cannot mean to be blind to outrages against humanity. To carry on regardless is not to refuse to be caught up in politics, but rather to take action which is, in effect, very political.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 12:04 PM
Im not "worked out" against you or your country, habibko. You are saying that individuals tennis players should be vocal about politics and speak against their goverments if they want "no problems around". This is utter dangerous bullshit and yes, it can backfire against anyone from any country, including yours.

EDIT: about the post previous to this, utter idiocy is the least I can say.

Bilbo
02-16-2009, 12:05 PM
didnt see this many people protesting when Israel murdered 1200 civilians few weeks ago.

people only protest when any israelian is suffering

sad but true

dorkino
02-16-2009, 12:07 PM
Well, i've some remarks on this: First according to Peer’s brother and spokesman, Shlomi Peer, said Peer actually applied for a visa months in advance and was assured by tournament organizers that she would be allowed entry. Which means that this move and all the blah blah talks about intentional racism is irrelevant.

Second, i see a big amount of hypocrisy in all of this. The thing is that Emirates and the israelis don't have announced political relations but under the table there's business and money talks between the two sides.
The fact that the israeli mass murders using illegal and experimental weapons on the citizens of gaza wasn't met by a proper political situation from the Emirates and honestly i don't believe the business really stopped between both sides. So the act of denying peer the visa is just somehow more of a noisy propaganda.

The fact that western and the israeli media whining about it is also hypocrite. I wonder how much whining was there in the media when palestinian athletes faced hell to pass the borders in an unhumanitarian way and returned home to find their houses flattened by the israeli occupation forces a couple of years ago.

So some people see this as an unfair action. Others see it as a way of rejecting the israeli strikes and siege on Gaza just the way when South africa was banned from the Olympics from 1964 as a way of expressing rejection for apartheid.

I humbly believe that using the visa denial as a weapon is a foolish policy. But lots of countries 've used this. And this includes the US and european countries not only in the sports field but also in arts. Hypocritically we didn't hear the same whining or complains from the media !!:cuckoo:.

So if a move has to be taken it should be taken against all sides and for the sake of real justice not for those who can whine with louder voices even though they 're not that clean handed.

Originally posted by omar behroozian
i personally think that peer should have been given a special entry in the tournament coz at the end of the day sports has nothing to do with politics.... but what i wanna say is that there are over 200 nationalities in dubai these days and if u ask the majority of them, they will tell u that theyre loving it here and that everything is good here. so u guys all sitting wherever u are and saying dubai is racist or extremist or whatever is totally out of line. every1 is entitled to his opininon but that is if u actually lived here for a while or something. u can't have an opinion on a country just beacause of 1 incident. im saying this coz im from dubai and im not trying to defend dubai at all, im just saying that its fair enough to say dubai was wrong in this incident but to say all these things about being racist or whatever is just complete bullshit.


Originally posted by Habibko
yep, they should protest to their government to stop being mass murderers so they can have no problems around.

Personally, i would 've preferred it if Peer was given the visa entry. It would 've shown more openness from ur country for one thing. But then afterwards, there're more than enough ways to show the tennis player and previous army server that her country practices are neither that appreciated nor innocent.

habibko
02-16-2009, 12:12 PM
I realise I'm probably swimming against the tide here, judging from most of the comments on this thread, but I'm with habibko on this one.

While it is obviously not ideal that ATP or WTA players be refused entry to states where tournaments for which they are eligible are being held, these are exceptional circumstances. It is only through the complete severence of political ties with Israel that states (and the international community in general) can effectively show their condemnation for the actions of that state. Sport and politics are not easy bed-fellows, but I don't think it is right for tennis to carry on regardless amidst humanitarian catastrophe. I'm not sure what happened tennis-wise during the apartheid in South Africa, but I wouldn't have been against South African players being denied entry to countries that had rightly severed relations with that regime.

There are bigger issues here than tennis. While the Israeli players themselves are of course not to blame, refusing entry to high-profile individuals such as athletes can help to put pressure on the Israeli state. It is for the government of that country to cease its immoral and illegal actions if it wishes to avoid action being taken vicariously against its nationals. The international community must take all reasonably practicable steps to ensure that the suffering in Palestine does not continue, and this may legitimately involve restricting the entry of Israeli nationals to their territories.

Note also that there are other tournaments being held the same week as Dubai which Israeli citizens would have no problem in entering (albeit that the rewards available aren't as high). The effect that this decision has upon these highly-paid and generally privileged individuals should not be over-estimated. Are there any Palestinian pro tennis players? Are they allowed to travel?

To support tennis cannot mean to be blind to outrages against humanity. To carry on regardless is not to refuse to be caught up in politics, but rather to take action which is, in effect, very political.

very well said.

Im not "worked out" against you or your country, habibko. You are saying that individuals tennis players should be vocal about politics and speak against their goverments if they want "no problems around". This is utter dangerous bullshit and yes, it can backfire against anyone from any country, including yours.

EDIT: about the post previous to this, utter idiocy is the least I can say.

you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

adee-gee
02-16-2009, 12:15 PM
The fact that western and the israeli media whining about it is also hypocrite. I wonder how much whining was there in the media when palestinian athletes faced hell to pass the borders in an unhumanitarian way and returned home to find their houses flattened by the israeli occupation forces a couple of years ago.
Which "Palestinian athletes" are you talking about? Source? Or you're just making up a statement to try and prove your point?

dorkino
02-16-2009, 12:18 PM
I realise I'm probably swimming against the tide here, judging from most of the comments on this thread, but I'm with habibko on this one.

While it is obviously not ideal that ATP or WTA players be refused entry to states where tournaments for which they are eligible are being held, these are exceptional circumstances. It is only through the complete severence of political ties with Israel that states (and the international community in general) can effectively show their condemnation for the actions of that state. Sport and politics are not easy bed-fellows, but I don't think it is right for tennis to carry on regardless amidst humanitarian catastrophe. I'm not sure what happened tennis-wise during the apartheid in South Africa, but I wouldn't have been against South African players being denied entry to countries that had rightly severed relations with that regime.

There are bigger issues here than tennis. While the Israeli players themselves are of course not to blame, refusing entry to high-profile individuals such as athletes can help to put pressure on the Israeli state. It is for the government of that country to cease its immoral and illegal actions if it wishes to avoid action being taken vicariously against its nationals. The international community must take all reasonably practicable steps to ensure that the suffering in Palestine does not continue, and this may legitimately involve restricting the entry of Israeli nationals to their territories.

Note also that there are other tournaments being held the same week as Dubai which Israeli citizens would have no problem in entering (albeit that the rewards available aren't as high). The effect that this decision has upon these highly-paid and generally privileged individuals should not be over-estimated. Are there any Palestinian pro tennis players? Are they allowed to travel?

To support tennis cannot mean to be blind to outrages against humanity. To carry on regardless is not to refuse to be caught up in politics, but rather to take action which is, in effect, very political.

:yeah: :hatoff: Thanks for making sense.

dorkino
02-16-2009, 12:23 PM
Which "Palestinian athletes" are you talking about? Source? Or you're just making up a statement to try and prove your point?


Thanks for giving my imagination all this credit.


EDIT: Honestly what do you guys think about this ?



Britain denies entry to Palestinian Under 19s football team

Friday 24th August, 2007

Britain has refused entry to the Palestinian Under 19s football team, which was due to arrive in the country on Tuesday this week.

The British Government refused to issue visas to the team because of fears its members would not return home.

The Palestine National Youth Football Team was to have spent three weeks touring the UK and playing English football teams including Chester City, Tranmere Rovers, and Blackburn Rovers.

The tour had been organized by the University of Chester along with the Palestine and English Football Associations.

Rod Cox, spokesman for the organizers said, "I regret to tell you that the tour has been terminated, not by a hostile blow from a distant enemy, but by our own government."

"The Consulate in Jerusalem has refused visas to every single one of the team and its support staff of coaches and officials."

"They have produced a written reason for the refusal but will not show it to us," he said. "I cannot imagine the disappointment of the boys selected to play in the team. The chance to escape the most densely populated, and seriously deprived, part of the world, Gaza, and show the world that you can compete with the rest, if only the chains are taken from around your neck, well, its gone."

The Entry Clearance Officer at the Jerusalem Consulate said, "The refusal has been taken at the highest level in London. It is in line with current immigration policy".

Cox branded the decision as “incredible,” adding that “Only a few months ago Britain's Foreign Office was considering funding this scheme under the 'Engagement with Islam' programme. They recognised that the positive nature of engaging people in sport both in Palestine and in the UK helps to keep young men out of the hands of the gunmen. But the 'Engaging with Islam' programme has been completely terminated, and no grants will be given this year,” he said.

The American-born Palestinian striker Morad Fareed expressed his disbelief at the UK’s decision, saying that. "Football is one of the very few institutions that Palestine has to compete, to show our statehood, to be on the world stage."

The chairperson of Truce International, Nancy Dell'Olio, offered her support for the team, noting that “this decision will be seen in Gaza, where most of the team originate, as siding with the enemy. To refuse a national team admission solely on the grounds that they are too poor and deprived will not do Britain any good abroad. The lives of these boys, who have worked so hard to achieve the position they are in, are just being thrown away."

The players were told the visas were blocked because of the risk they would not return home to Gaza, the BBC's Mike Sergeant said in Jerusalem.

The team's manager told BBC News the players had expected to be welcomed in Britain, and were depressed about the decision.

It was "hypocrisy" for the UK to deny entry to the Palestinian team but to allow the Israeli national squad entry to play England in London on September 8 in a Euro 2008 qualifier, a spokesman for War on Want, a London-based charity, was quoted by The Jerusalem Post as saying.

"The refusal stands in marked contrast to the welcome given the Israeli national team, due to play England at Wembley on 8 September. This is despite calls for that match to be canceled in protest of continuing Israeli assaults on Palestinian towns, including the bombing of the national football stadium," said the charity.

War on Want is under investigation by the UK Charity Commission for allegedly violating its charity status for political campaigning, the 'Post report said.

The Palestine Football teams have been dogged by a lack of support from those in power. In 2005, Israel prevented the Palestinians competing on the world stage by detaining players in Gaza during a world cup qualifier. They also prevented the entire team leaving Gaza for an Asian Cup qualifier against Singapore in 2006, and barred the team from re-entering Gaza for over a month after they competed in Jordan in June of this year.

On March 31, 2006, Israeli army artillery shells left a large crater in the center of the field at Gaza's National Stadium, in response to Qassam rocket attacks, according to The Jerusalem Post. There were reports at the time that the stadium was being used to launch rocket attacks.
http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/index.php?sid=276286

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 12:49 PM
EDIT: Honestly what do you guys think about this ?

Personally I find it disgusting but that's an inmigration policy, every country has one, British people and organizations who invited those guys are free to challenge that policy. I don't recall any sport event in England involving international obligations where visa have been denied on general grounds of nationality, etc. In case there are such Im up for the involved international federations to call off any such events in the future in Britain.

UAE is free to enforce its visa policy. In case that policy isn't compatible with ATP and WTA rules all events in UAE must be called off. That's quite simple.

Winston's Human
02-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Note also that there are other tournaments being held the same week as Dubai which Israeli citizens would have no problem in entering (albeit that the rewards available aren't as high).

Why should Peer be forced to play a tournament with significantly less point-availability so that Dubai (a Premier 5 tournament) can blithely ignore the WTA's own equal opportunity rules. This would be like telling an eligible ATP player that they could not play in a 1000 Masters tournament, but could play some challenger-equivalent tournament someplace else.

I suppose the WTA could enact a "Dubai-rule" which mandates that all tournaments which occur during the same week as Dubai must have the same points allocations as Dubai regardless of the quality of the field.

habibko
02-16-2009, 01:00 PM
I suppose the WTA could enact a "Dubai-rule" which mandates that all tournaments which occur during the same week as Dubai must have the same points allocations as Dubai regardless of the quality of the field.

or just as Tursunov suggested: "I imagine the best solution for all parties is if Peer is invited into the UAE next year. Money talks after all." :lol:

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 01:06 PM
In fact Peer should suit the organizers for the lost revenue plus moral damages AND UAE must be forced to either guarantee this kind of bigoted crap will not happen in the future or give away the tourney. Plain and simple.

adee-gee
02-16-2009, 01:08 PM
Thanks for giving my imagination all this credit.

EDIT: Honestly what do you guys think about this ?
I was talking more about the "faced hell to pass the borders in an unhumanitarian way and returned home to find their houses flattened by the israeli occupation" ;)

But as for the article, of course I don't agree with it. The only thing I would say in defence is that I've also read several articles about sports teams from underprivileged or war-torn countries who have come to Britain and then gone missing while they've been here and stayed in the country as illegal immigrants.
Why should Peer be forced to play a tournament with significantly less point-availability so that Dubai (a Premier 5 tournament) can blithely ignore the WTA's own equal opportunity rules. This would be like telling an eligible ATP player that they could not play in a 1000 Masters tournament, but could play some challenger-equivalent tournament someplace else.
Also, Dubai is played outdoors. Memphis is indoors, which has probably been the worst for her in terms of results.

nobama
02-16-2009, 01:11 PM
I wish she would sue the tournament and the WTA.

And what a joke...she should enter a different event (with a lot less prize $$ and points) just so this issue doesn't have to be dealt with. :rolleyes:

I have a feeling if this was a tournament not allowing blacks to participate people would be more up in arms about it and wouldn't be suggesting they play somewhere else instead.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 01:22 PM
BTW all this talk about Palestine etc is just hypocritical bullshit, I don't recall any Gulf native up in arms when hundreds of thousands Palestines were summarily deported from those countries after Mr Arafat foolishly decided to support Sadam during the first Gulf War.

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 01:28 PM
To support tennis cannot mean to be blind to outrages against humanity. To carry on regardless is not to refuse to be caught up in politics, but rather to take action which is, in effect, very political.

In that case, Dubai definitly shouldn't be getting ANY kind of tennis tournament, due to the human rights violation they commit on their own.

Just try and google 'Dubai', "human rights', forgien workers, etc. You'll get plenty of interesting info. Many people were outraged they got to host the tournament regardless.

Dubai's policy regarding Israelis entree into the country had been in place for years, it has little to do with Israel's actions, it's a blind support of the Palestinians regardless of what crimes their goverment (currently, the Hamas) seem to be committing this week, this month or this year.

What happened in Gaza has nothing to do with the desicion, the problem was there last year, and the year before.

omar behroozian
02-16-2009, 01:40 PM
In that case, Dubai definitly shouldn't be getting ANY kind of tennis tournament, due to the human rights violation they commit on their own.

Just try and google 'Dubai', "human rights', forgien workers, etc. You'll get plenty of interesting info. Many people were outraged they got to host the tournament regardless.

Dubai's policy regarding Israelis entree into the country had been in place for years, it has little to do with Israel's actions, it's a blind support of the Palestinians regardless of what crimes their goverment (currently, the Hamas) seem to be committing this week, this month or this year.

What happened in Gaza has nothing to do with the desicion, the problem was there last year, and the year before.

ok now this is definately just talking without any logic at all. have u ever been in dubai? or spoken to people here? i dont really care what articles u read but really ure not the right person to talk about dubai coz uve never been here. u just have to say " dubai are wrong and they should have let peer in", thats fine. but anything more than that is totally unnecessary coz its a government policy and all this talk about the wta considering actions or whatever is bullshit coz they know that no1 could have done anything about this, so i dont think they are gonna cancel the tournament, definately not.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 01:51 PM
Well neither the UAE nor any other Gulf country can boast about a clean human right record. I've been to Dubai twice, and to Saudi and Kuwait and most of what is published about the apalling treatment of foreigners (80% of the population or so) is spot on. They have no rights at all, and they are human so... let Gulf goverments STFU about others' human rights violation and do more about their own. At least Israel is a democracy albeit imperfect, none of the Gulf petromonarchies has the slightest idea of what democracy or human rights mean.

:rolleyes:

habibko
02-16-2009, 01:55 PM
Well neither the UAE nor any other Gulf country can boast about a clean human right record. I've been to Dubai twice, and to Saudi and Kuwait and most of what is published about the apalling treatment of foreigners (80% of the population or so) is spot on. They have no rights at all, and they are human so... let Gulf goverments STFU about others' human rights violation and do more about their own. At least Israel is a democracy albeit imperfect, none of the Gulf petromonarchies has the slightest idea of what democracy or human rights mean.

:rolleyes:

well if democracy and human rights means killing thousands of people like ants, I think we know human rights better then no?

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 01:57 PM
well if democracy and human rights means killing thousands of people like ants, I think we know human rights better then no?

no.

scoobs
02-16-2009, 02:06 PM
This issue needs to be discussed from an ATP standpoint - how it affects mens tennis - if you want to talk about Shahar Peer and how it affects her, it's being discussed on WTA World.

Thanks

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 02:07 PM
well if democracy and human rights means killing thousands of people like ants, I think we know human rights better then no?

So, what are your thoughts about recent reports regarding Hamas stealing the UN humanitarian aid? The *UN* had to threat to stop humanitarian aid of the trucks with food weren't returned.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=29802&Cr=gaza&Cr1=unrwa

Maybe you should start protesting against Hamas.

Look, no country is perfect, least of all mine. However, I find it interesting to say the least when residents of the gulf countries have very strong opinions regarding human rights violations - as long as they are committed by Israel to the Palestinians, but have very little to say about other human rights violations going on, on much bigger scale, in the middle east, that are done by Muslims to other minorities. For example, Darfur. Where hundred of thousands had been killed, by Muslims, in the past several years.

Can you tell me how many refugees from Darfur your country took in during the past two years? Because Israel took thousands.

Look, I don't want to make it into a political post, feel free to PM about it, but if you excuse Dubai saying it's okay to take that stand because Israel is commiting war crimes/hr violations, it surely means that 3/4 of the middle east players can't play in Dubai.

scoobs
02-16-2009, 02:11 PM
Also, this discussion needs to be about TENNIS

If you want to talk about human rights, politics or religion, this is the wrong board. This thread won't remain open if it doesn't stay on topic.

JolánGagó
02-16-2009, 02:13 PM
This thread won't remain open if it doesn't stay on topic.

Oh we've missed you so much :hug:

scoobs
02-16-2009, 02:14 PM
Oh we've missed you so much :hug:
*raises eyebrows*

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 02:15 PM
Sorry Scoobs. I'll shut up on the subject, and I invite anyone (especailly those from the middle east) to PM me about it.

habibko
02-16-2009, 02:16 PM
I will not continue to discuss this as scoobs points out but will PM you about it later, I'm too tired right now and need to sleep a little bit.

how it will affect ATP? well the same would happen if any Israeli male player would have asked for a visa anytime soon, and if they cancelled the event I'm sure ATP will be affected too.

Winston's Human
02-16-2009, 02:16 PM
or just as Tursunov suggested: "I imagine the best solution for all parties is if Peer is invited into the UAE next year. Money talks after all." :lol:

I am sure that is what Peer wished for.

Now, she has to deal with the consequence of losing her points from this week last year and the fact that her ranking will be affected because Dubai is one of the Premier 5 events (meaning that their best two performances are automatically included in their ranking). So, unlike all the other players, Peer's ranking will be based on only her best two out of four rather than two out of five.

dorkino
02-16-2009, 02:53 PM
[quote=adee-gee;8169125]I was talking more about the "faced hell to pass the borders in an unhumanitarian way and returned home to find their houses flattened by the israeli occupation" ;)

Yes Ofcourse. I should've guessed it's not that well equally published to be known. :)

Film documents hardships facing Palestinian football team
Chilean film-maker Marcelo Pina watched as Palestinian national soccer captain Saeb Jundiya was pushed against a wall and searched by Israeli soldiers just two blocks from his Gaza home.

“That was the second time in a couple of months it happened to him,” said Pina, who is filming a fly-on-the-wall documentary on Palestine’s failed bid to qualify for the 2006 World Cup.

Striker Ziad Al Kourd returned from the team’s World Cup qualifier in September against Uzbekistan in Doha to find his house in the Gaza Strip town of Deir al-Balah had been demolished. Israel, which said its army had been clearing an area of land while searching for arms-smuggling tunnels, has since deemed Al Kourd a security threat and banned him from travelling.

Key player Adel Al-Farran lives in appalling conditions in a refugee camp in Nablus.

Soccer provides only brief respite from the trials of conflict for many of the Palestinian national team, half of whom live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Unlike players who represent a sovereign country, the Palestinians must first contend with Israel, which controls many aspects of their daily lives, before they can compete on the pitch.

Israel has imposed travel restrictions on Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as it clamps down on militants in a four-year-old uprising in which more than 3,000 Palestinians and nearly 1,000 Israelis have died.

Slum conditions: “We’ve been able to see the difficulties faced by the country’s top players, some of them living in slum conditions,” the Chicago-based Pina told Reuters. “To merely play the game is difficult. Getting out of the country, getting back in, transport.

“It’s not easy when you’re an occupied country. You can talk about how success in football can lift a nation, which is true, but it’s not that simple.” Pina said growing up in Pinochet-led Chile had helped him to empathise with people in other countries living under similar difficulties.

“There’s also the fact that Chile is home to a large population of people whose ancestors had emigrated to South America from Palestine,” said the 31-year-old Pina. “We now have the chance to highlight their problems. It goes beyond football. We want to show the world the difficulties faced by these people.”

Some 300,000 people in Chile claim Palestinian ancestry and many maintain links with Palestinian relations. FIFA, which recognised the Palestinian team in 1998, has allowed them to play their World Cup Asian zone qualifying “home” games in Qatar for security reasons.

But, with just seven points from five matches, the team have no hope of qualifying from Asian group two. They had hoped to emulate the success of Iraq, who overcame extreme hardship to reach the quarter-finals of the Asian Cup and the Athens Olympics semi-finals this year. Two victories over Taiwan – one an 8-0 demolition – in their World Cup qualifying group bear testimony to the Palestinians’ potential.

Financial help: Their modest success is largely thanks to half a dozen players with Palestinian ancestry recruited in South America and the financial help of local businessmen. Many Palestine players play their club football in Kuwait, Lebanon, Indonesia and the United States. For these players, travel to and from games is straightforward.

For players such as Jundiya, travel can be fraught with problems. Often they are prevented from travelling by Israeli forces. Pina said he would never forget the sight of the Palestinian captain entering his home country riding a donkey.

“After the Uzbekistan match, it took us 40 hours to cross the Egyptian border into Rafah,” he said. “It was only 100 metres from the Egyptian side to the Palestine side. It was jammed with traffic that was not moving. “So the players, with their luggage, had to travel that distance on donkey.” An Israeli army spokeswoman said Palestinian sports representatives needed to give notice of their travel plans.

“Any athlete who needs to leave to participate in competition abroad must coordinate their exit (in advance) and as long as they pass the security background checks there is no problem,” she said. reuters
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_4-11-2004_pg2_19

But as for the article, of course I don't agree with it. The only thing I would say in defence is that I've also read several articles about sports teams from underprivileged or war-torn countries who have come to Britain and then gone missing while they've been here and stayed in the country as illegal immigrants. If we consider this a fair defense, then we can consider Dubai refusing to give Peer the visa for possible security reasons. They may be worried about the player's life. They may be worried about their own tourney and their own country to host a player coming from a country that practices occcupation and seige and whose leaders are facing the fears of being charged of war crimes. Ironically and after all not one statement was officially given that clearily announces that Peer was not given the visa as a personal punishment. :shrug:

FiBeR
02-16-2009, 03:00 PM
I guess Dudi Sela wont be getting a WC this year..

HattonWBA
02-16-2009, 03:02 PM
Interesting

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 03:08 PM
[QUOTE]


Wow. This 's actually very disgusting to read.

And seeing this i am ready to accept Scoobs idea about the thread. Enough said.

I see what I said went completely lost in translation from Hebrew to English in my mind, so I must clarify, and please allow that, moderators.

What I meant to say, that OF COURSE HR violations against Palestinians are HR violations (and every war lead to HR violations, war crimes are another matter entirely - but I'm not disputing the Palestinians HR are being violated daily, and that are in a miserable place right now), what I meant to say is that the middle east is full of horrible HR violations Israel has nothing to do with, and yet there's never any protest in the Arab/Muslim world about that.

I just wondered what it is about Israel that sends thousands of people to the streets, burning Israel flags, while the situation in Darfur (daily ****, mutilation, death toll far exceeding what happened in Gaza, or all casualties the Palestinians EVER had in the past 60 years) does not.

I never intended to say, or even imply, that there aren't HR violations going on in Gaza. I just feel that the Hamas shoulders quite a bit of the blame, as well as responsible for many different HR violations by himself (like stealing humanitarian aid) that Israel has nothing to do with.

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 03:49 PM
Please. I know it is wrong but why take it out on Sony Ericsson and the WTA. Were they meant to predict that this would happen and take the risky decision of not giving the tournament to Dubai. If the WTA had cancelled the tournament before this incident they probably would have copped flak for doing it based on guessing that this incident would occur.

And now that it has happened they can't exactly cancel the event after most of the players have arrived in Dubai and expect them to have waste their money and time by flying to Dubai and then be told there is no event.

The only organization you should be criticizing over this is the Dubai tournament and not the WTA or Sony Ericsson.I don't agree. the WTA knew damn well what the official policy of the UAE was regarding Israeli nationals (AND those tourists who have an Israeli passport stamp, btw. Guess Novak and Maria and others who have been to Israel had to get a special stamp visa that does not appear in their passports, otherwise I don't believe they'd be allowed into Dubai either) when they sanctioned this tournament (Same for the ATP). They HAD to have known that it would be difficult for players to get entry. Now, perhaps the tour(s) had no idea that the government would pull an 11th hour denial like they seem to have done here, but they still took that risk and I think they still shoulder the blame here for allowing these events to conitnue knowing full well the government's policy.

Conclusion was perhaps right but the example of an American tournament in the US South denying entry to Blacks isn't quite the same, since an American Black wouldn't need a visa to get in the US!!!
:wavey:Are you really trying to say there is functionally much difference between someone denying visa entry or denying entry to somewhere because of race? I mean, really.

i personally think that peer should have been given a special entry in the tournament coz at the end of the day sports has nothing to do with politics.... but what i wanna say is that there are over 200 nationalities in dubai these days and if u ask the majority of them, they will tell u that theyre loving it here and that everything is good here. so u guys all sitting wherever u are and saying dubai is racist or extremist or whatever is totally out of line. every1 is entitled to his opininon but that is if u actually lived here for a while or something. u can't have an opinion on a country just beacause of 1 incident. im saying this coz im from dubai and im not trying to defend dubai at all, im just saying that its fair enough to say dubai was wrong in this incident but to say all these things about being racist or whatever is just complete bullshit.I don't think anyone is criticizing any of the UAE's people, and if they are they are being unfair. Just like lots of people on this board and many many others spewed all kinds of vitriol at the US Government while Bush was president, I think it's entirely fair for people to criticize this decision made by Dubai/UAE's government in this particular case, and you shouldn't take it as a judgment against you or your fellow citizens, because we know it is not your fault.

If we consider this a fair defense, then we can consider Dubai refusing to give Peer the visa for possible security reasons. They may be worried about the player's life. They may be worried about their own tourney and their own country to host a player coming from a country that practices occcupation and seige and whose leaders are facing the fears of being charged of war crimes. Ironically and after all not one statement was officially given that clearily announces that Peer was not given the visa as a personal punishment. :shrug:That's utterly ridiculous and you can't compare the two at all. first of all, two wrongs don't make a right. Second of all, England doesn't summarily deny visas to all people from a certain place, it is not a part of the government's clear policy. UAE does. England - while perhaps being very wrong in this particular case - made a specific decision in a specific case using information that perhaps we are not privy to, and as Adam suggested, there may be a true and valid security reason for it - or there may not be. UAE simply was following its very clearly-stated policies and everyone knows that there is no security interest there. as omar behroozian said, the people of UAE are probably almost entirely not racist, they wouldn't have put Peer in harms way, I think some simple security measures would have ensured her safety by and large. You can't seriously suggest that there was a security reason that she was denied entry, there is just no evidence to support that whatsoever, espeically in the face of these stated and widely-known government policies.

Again, this is not a political issue. It's not about Israel or Dubai or England or Palestine. It's about the fact that the tours sanction events in a country that REFUSES to allow entry by people of a certain country. This is a sports issue, as I tried to say last night. Not only is bringing up the political matters going to get this thread closed, it's irrelevant to the issue at hand anyway.

~*BGT*~
02-16-2009, 03:55 PM
Come on Andy, play Delray Beach instead :awww:

El Legenda
02-16-2009, 04:04 PM
Come on Andy, play Delray Beach instead :awww:

I think he likes money more than peer.

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 04:16 PM
Well, my friends. The plots thickens.

Who said we need to wait till last year to see What Dubai would do? Andy Ram applied for a Visa, using his **Israeli** passport (he has a foriegn one, too). I always got the impression he wanted to stress the issue last year when he was denied (yet never got an official rejection), and balked because of Yoni. Well, Yoni is in Israel, injured, Andy got a new partner now, and apperantly the main idea is to to make the WTA and ATP deal with the issue now, and not wait till next year.

And unlike Shahar, Andy Ram got a big mouth and if they'll say no, my bet is that he'll demend the tournament gets canceled.

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 04:17 PM
Well, my friends. The plots thickens.

Who said we need to wait till last year to see What Dubai would do? Andy Ram applied for a Visa, using his **Israeli** passport (he has a foriegn one, too). I always got the impression he wanted to stress the issue last year when he was denied (yet never got an official rejection), and balked because of Yoni. Well, Yoni is in Israel, injured, Andy got a new partner now, and apperantly the main idea is to to make the WTA and ATP deal with the issue now, and not wait till next year.

And unlike Shahar, Andy Ram got a big mouth and if they'll say no, my bet is that he'll demend the tournament gets canceled.Wait, so you're saying that Ram has indeed applied for a visa for this year's ATP event? I forget he and Yoni are both originally from South American countries. Very bold of him to apply with his Israeli passport. This will be interesting indeed.

cobalt60
02-16-2009, 05:24 PM
Well, my friends. The plots thickens.

Who said we need to wait till last year to see What Dubai would do? Andy Ram applied for a Visa, using his **Israeli** passport (he has a foriegn one, too). I always got the impression he wanted to stress the issue last year when he was denied (yet never got an official rejection), and balked because of Yoni. Well, Yoni is in Israel, injured, Andy got a new partner now, and apperantly the main idea is to to make the WTA and ATP deal with the issue now, and not wait till next year.

And unlike Shahar, Andy Ram got a big mouth and if they'll say no, my bet is that he'll demend the tournament gets canceled.

Wait, so you're saying that Ram has indeed applied for a visa for this year's ATP event? I forget he and Yoni are both originally from South American countries. Very bold of him to apply with his Israeli passport. This will be interesting indeed.

good for him; can't wait to see the response

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 05:42 PM
That is what's been reported on Israeli media.

Our tennis organization is furious, Shahar got a promise she'll be allowed in, hasn't entered memphis and her ranking will suffer (she's defending a semi there), plus she had a dream draw (the LL got who in instead of her - beat Anna C., and the next round is totally winable, too) and had good momentum going on.

Shahar Peer (and her father) dont' want to make too many waves, I expect Andy has a different take on the matter.

Jelena
02-16-2009, 06:09 PM
good for him; can't wait to see the response
I'm waiting for that :shout: of Andy, and I :yeah: when he does. Good boy! (Sometimes South American temper can be really good :angel:)

cobalt60
02-16-2009, 06:13 PM
I'm waiting for that :shout: of Andy, and I :yeah: when he does. Good boy! (Sometimes South American temper can be really good :angel:)

Actually sometimes he goes a bit overboard:p I have to admit I think Erlich tempers his extremes;)

nobama
02-16-2009, 06:54 PM
That is what's been reported on Israeli media.

Our tennis organization is furious, Shahar got a promise she'll be allowed in, hasn't entered memphis and her ranking will suffer (she's defending a semi there), plus she had a dream draw (the LL got who in instead of her - beat Anna C., and the next round is totally winable, too) and had good momentum going on.

Shahar Peer (and her father) dont' want to make too many waves, I expect Andy has a different take on the matter.Good for Andy. :yeah: I hope nothing happens to him though. :unsure:

Fee
02-16-2009, 07:05 PM
This whole issue isn't about the Dubai Government and their policies or whatever else, but I see that many of you got distracted by that topic. Let me get you back to the real issue.

The ATP and WTA tours both sanctioned a tournament in a country that they knew would not allow all of their dues paying players in to play (regardless of whether those players are high ranking international superstars). They took fat wads of cash and encouraged their players to take fat wads of cash while they shook hands with the tournament who made 'assurances' that Israeli players would be given visas to enter 'if they really want to come here' nudge nudge wink wink. When this was brought up in 2006 and 2007 the answer was, 'well no one is ranked high enough to play this year, we'll see next year' and pretended that the tours even allowing this event was not an issue. Dudi, Noam, and Harel were never in a position to spend the money to push the envelope to make it over there for qualies, so this was a non issue until an Israeli team won a Grand Slam doubles title and decided they wanted in on all that cash and the luxury hotel. Surprise, surprise, they were denied. Fast forward to this year, a high ranking female player wants to go and surprise, surprise she was denied (and NO it was not because of recent events in Gaza, please stop floating that lame excuse).

The ATP and WTA should be ashamed. They whored themselves out for money and slapped the face of their dues paying members, and made window dressing comments of disgust (nudge nudge wink wink) while they lubed themselves up and bent over again. Congratulations ATP/WTA, what's a little integrity when cash is involved.

Get these tournaments the fuck off the calendar, or make them Challengers.

Snoo Foo
02-16-2009, 07:45 PM
Anger rises over Shahar Peer exclusion (Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article5747576.ece))
Neil Harman

A sense of outrage is building within the tennis community at the decision of the United Arab Emirates to deny a visa to Shahar Peer of Israel, the world ranked No.45, for this week's Barclays Dubai championships, an event that has sacificed all credibility. And what exactly is the stance of the tornament's leading sponsor on this, one wonders?

As Peer maintained a dignified silence and her association said it would have to consider what it might do next rather than come up with a plausible means of unified action against the tournament and its governing federation, the International Tennis Federation, the sport's umbrella authority, suggested it may be willing to flex the muscles it usually keeps discreetly hidden.

ITF president Francesco Ricci Bitti is rightly troubled by the UAE's discreditable stance. "The ITF is saddened to learn that, because of her nationality, Israel's Shahar Peer was denied entry into Dubai thus making her unable to compete in this week's event," he said. "She earned her place and deserved the chance to take part. The ITF fully supports the principle that the international ranking is the principal means of entry for players into sanctioned tournaments.

"In addition, we will be in contact with the UAE Tennis Association to remind them that the ITF Constitution does not permit discrimination on any grounds. The ITF believes that sport should not be used as a political tool but rather as a unifying element between athletes and nations. Our flagship competitions, Davis Cup by BNP Paribas and Fed Cup by BNP Paribas, were founded on the idea of fostering greater understanding among nations through tennis, a principle that is as valid today as it was over 100 years ago."

The 21-year-old Israeli had received assurances that a visa would be issued in the months leading up to the $2 million dollar event and was only informed otherwise on Saturday night, a day before the tournament got under way. She had even been included in the tournament draw, made over the weekend, and was set to face Russia's Anna Chakvetadze in the first round.

Larry Scott, the chief executive of the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour said yesterday: "I made it clear to them (the Dubai organisers) that if Shahar were not allowed to play, they would run the risk of losing their tournament. It would be a big blow to lose one of this prestige and money, but if it comes to principles of fairness and openness, there can be no compromise."

Whether or not the UAE recognises the error of its ways and offers an apology to Peer for this shameful treatment, should determine its right to stage a tournament in the future. The Israeli's fellow players are rallying around. "It's not acceptable," said former world No.1 and Wimbledon champion Amelie Mauresmo of France after she clinched the Paris Open title on Sunday. "I think sport should be above issues like that to do with religion and wars."

Russia's Olympic champion Elena Dementieva, runner-up to Mauresmo, has great sympathy for Peer. "She's a very good girl and very sensitive. I played her in Auckland and there was some kind of demonstration during the match," Dementieva said. "I just feel sad for her. She really cares about what's going on between Israel and Palestine and it's just a very tough situation."

The WTA Tour insists that it was blindsided by the UAE's decision and did not expect this to happen. Well, forewarned is forearmed. A similar situation will almost certainly rear its ugly head next week when the ATP Tour moves in to Dubai and Israel's Andy Ram, one of the world's finest doubles players, would expect to be in the field.

Would it not be a significant first move from Adam Helfant, the new chairman and chief executive officer of the ATP, to tell the UAE that unless Ram is allowed to participate, his organisation will pull the plug on the tournament? It is a stance that would resonate across the sporting world and demonstrate that tennis is above such political skullduggery.

TMJordan
02-16-2009, 08:30 PM
Give em hell, Andy! :yeah:

The Pro
02-16-2009, 09:13 PM
It's an opportunity for the ATP to make a point that their sport is above politics, which I hope that tennis is.

Lee
02-16-2009, 09:21 PM
Get these tournaments the fuck off the calendar, or make them Challengers.

:bigclap:

I hope the wave after wave of actions made by Israeli players will eventually break down the money wall erected by Dubai tournament and ATP/WTA.

Jelena
02-16-2009, 09:38 PM
Here (http://uk.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUKTRE51F4FG20090216?sp=true) is an article confirming that Ram wants to go to Dubai and with Gimelstob quotes about the opinion of ATP.

nobama
02-16-2009, 09:48 PM
Thank you Justin. :)

I wish the players would boycott the tournament. The money's not worth it and the 'stars' certainly don't need it.

Fee
02-16-2009, 10:12 PM
Here (http://uk.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idUKTRE51F4FG20090216?sp=true) is an article confirming that Ram wants to go to Dubai and with Gimelstob quotes about the opinion of ATP.

Funny, I just sent him a mini-rant email on this topic. I didn't realize that Cronin had caught him yesterday in San Jose. Fantastic.

Thank you Justin. :)
I wish the players would boycott the tournament. The money's not worth it and the 'stars' certainly don't need it.

Is there a thread on this topic Roger's official website forum?

Novak should definitely stay away. He speaks Hebrew, he has Israeli people on his team. I wonder if he can be convinced regardless of the points he has to defend.

I swear part of me hopes that Andy tries to get in the country on Thursday so that he can get blocked with enough time for all the others players to pull out by the Friday deadline. I would love for Andy and Helfant to meet up somewhere, get on the same plane, and try to get in the country together. Would be great for the new ATP CEO to be there as it happened and see it with his own eyes.

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 10:16 PM
I gotta say, that I'm so pleased by the reactions, I didn't think it would be that supportive, and surprised. They're actually shocked that this was the desicion. (I thought there was a chance she'll get in, but I definitly never assumed that) I love this.

Oh, poor Roger.

That hot potato fell directly in his lap.

Of all the top players, he's the one who has to condamn this the most, because he's the head of the player council.

On the other hand, he's the only top player who has property and train in Dubai on a regular basis.

I just can't, for the life of me, imagine what answer he's going to give when asked about it.

I just know he's going to sit there and think "Can you ask me about crying instead? Please, pretty please?"

Or Levy
02-16-2009, 10:24 PM
Funny, I just sent him a mini-rant email on this topic. I didn't realize that Cronin had caught him yesterday in San Jose. Fantastic.



Is there a thread on this topic Roger's official website forum?

Novak should definitely stay away. He speaks Hebrew, he has Israeli people on his team. I wonder if he can be convinced regardless of the points he has to defend.

I swear part of me hopes that Andy tries to get in the country on Thursday so that he can get blocked with enough time for all the others players to pull out by the Friday deadline. I would love for Andy and Helfant to meet up somewhere, get on the same plane, and try to get in the country together. Would be great for the new ATP CEO to be there as it happened and see it with his own eyes.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that Andy isn't going to try and get into Dubai if he doesn't get the Visa, he's not going to take the chance of being arrested, it's not an option I care to imagine. I want this resolved, but scandals at the airport isn't on anyone main aggenda.

nobama
02-16-2009, 10:28 PM
Funny, I just sent him a mini-rant email on this topic. I didn't realize that Cronin had caught him yesterday in San Jose. Fantastic.



Is there a thread on this topic Roger's official website forum? Nobody wants to talk about it on his official website. Well, other than those moral equivalent, USA is the devil types. :rolleyes:

nobama
02-16-2009, 10:30 PM
Oh, poor Roger.

That hot potato fell directly in his lap.

Of all the top players, he's the one who has to condamn this the most, because he's the head of the player council.

On the other hand, he's the only top player who has property and train in Dubai on a regular basis.

I just can't, for the life of me, imagine what answer he's going to give when asked about it.

I just know he's going to sit there and think "Can you ask me about crying instead? Please, pretty please?"Not sure what you mean by 'poor Roger'. It's his choice to have a home and train in Dubai. I wish he'd relocate but fat chance of that. I'm sure he's treated very well in Dubai.

It's such a shame that the tour and players whore themselves out for a place like that. :o

Stensland
02-16-2009, 10:32 PM
can't be bothered to flick through all these pages so can somebody maybe update me on the current state of affairs reg. other players? has any big shot commented, like roger or rafa?

if roger's gonna go to dubai after this, he should be ashamed of himself. the same goes for rafa. i'd badmouth and bash them whenever i can in the future and support the ones who withdraw (if anyone does...).

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 10:35 PM
Well, several high-profile WTA players like Venus and Mauresmo commented. Fish commented and called it "crappy" per the article linked in this thread. I think we'll have to wait to hear from Roger or Rafa until the Dubai event starts. Perhaps Novak - especially considering he has been to Israel himself and had to have his passport stamped specially to avoid himself being denied entry into Dubai - would be the best "big shot" to comment on it. Maybe he'll be asked about it this week and it will get printed. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe even non-Israelis who have an Israeli visa stamp in their passport can be denied entry into the UAE, however Israel provides a separate stamp or paper for those who request it.

Stensland
02-16-2009, 10:47 PM
alright, thanks. i really don't get why it's that hard to condemn the ban publicly. it's not like dubai is running anything in this world, they have no influence whatsoever. even if you include the whole arab world: what would that do to a tennis players' career? basically nothing. arabs have nothing to do with tennis. so why not bash them? why shy away? i don't get it.

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 10:49 PM
Well, I don't think there's any need to bash. But it would be nice to see the players forget about their own paychecks (since really that is the only reason most of them make that trip there) and stand by their colleagues.

Stensland
02-16-2009, 10:51 PM
"bash" in the sense of "denounce", i mean. i'd have no problem with serious bashing though. ;)

Fee
02-16-2009, 10:55 PM
I think that things could get very interesting in Dubai as the men arrive (or as they don't... ;) ).


Yes, the WTA players all said very supportive things about Peer, but none of them packed up and left did they? It looks like the WTA is hoping the ATP carries the heavy load here.

TMJordan
02-16-2009, 10:57 PM
I think that things could get very interesting in Dubai as the men arrive (or as they don't... ;) ).


Yes, the WTA players all said very supportive things about Peer, but none of them packed up and left did they? It looks like the WTA is hoping the ATP carries the heavy load here.

I guess we have to leave a mans job for the men. :shrug:

Deboogle!.
02-16-2009, 10:59 PM
Well, in the WTA case, it seems that she was denied so late, that all of the women were there. I don't think it'd be reasonable to expect any of them to pack their bags and leave after a draw's already been made and whatnot. The men however actually have some time to react to it, as most of them are not there yet. On the other hand, I'm not sure if it should be up to individual players. I think the tours - as the players' representatives, need to be the ones to lead the way. And in that sense I do think it puts Roger in an untenable position that's not entirely his fault. In his personal life he's free to live and do whatever he wants, but as the president of the player council I sincerely hope he take some initiative on this.