Hewitt's speed, lobs, and passing shots... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Hewitt's speed, lobs, and passing shots...

tennischick
06-26-2004, 12:27 AM
were quite simply awesome today against Goran. admit it.

i am no fan of the contentious Potato but the truth must be admitted. especially when i am at home on a Friday night nursing a tennis (knee) injury which has made me much more empathetic towards previously injured/sick players who are fighting their way back in.

just so you don't think i'm becoming a softie or anything :devil:

MissPovaFan
06-26-2004, 12:29 AM
At this time of a possible Federer domination of non claycourt tennis I feel it is really important that tennis has a fully fit Hewitt whos at his best. We need some sort of Sampras-Agassi rivalry between aroudn 5 or 6 top players and I feel Hewitt has to try and break back into that group.

Tennis Fool
06-26-2004, 12:36 AM
I have yet to see any Wimbledon tennis. That'll change tomorrow. NBC will probably show Serena/Magui and not Fed :(

I've always liked Hewitt's game and heart...well, most of the time. Guys remember he was the defending champion when he got bounced last year to Ivo??? He's quieted down considerably from last years continuous tirades (Marat has taken over the grumpy slumpy tude).

Still, like to see Moya overcome his own fear of grass.

tennischick
06-26-2004, 12:40 AM
my heart wants sexy Moya to win...:hearts:

my head sez it's the Potato's chance to equalize their rivalry...

Sjengster
06-26-2004, 12:40 AM
I don't doubt Hewitt is close to his best form on grass of 2002, which is why I have to hope Federer can take him out in the QF's. It'll be interesting to see how he handles playing a right-hander for a change in the 4th round, but I reckon he's got too much grass-court experience for Moya and can actually boss the points on this surface since he has a flatter hit. Federer will have to be selective in coming forward if he gets to play Hewitt in the quarters, the passes and lobs are as good as ever and can defeat even the best volleyers out there.

Fedex
06-26-2004, 12:53 AM
Yes, but dont forget Federer has the big serve, and forehand he can come in on, forcing weak replies, resulting in easier volleys. Moya will overpower Hewitt no doubt, so i expect him to come through though. And rarely does Hewitt boss his opponent around, thats what Moya will do to hewitt with His serve and forehand. He'll have to counterpunch very well if he wants to win. And i think Roger is smarter when to come forward now. He's not just rushing the net behind every serve. He rarely comes in against Nalbandian now, which has proven to be a succesful tactic, so he approach the net with caution. But then again Hewitt cant overpower Federer, like Nalbandian can, so i expect Federer will stay at the baseline, and bully him around with his groundstrokes. Even if people think hewitt is in great form (02 form), he wont have much of a chance of beating Federer and Roddick near their best on grass.

ktwtennis
06-26-2004, 12:54 AM
If Hewitt and Fed play, and plat to their potential, then it'll be a great one!

Fedex
06-26-2004, 12:57 AM
If Hewitt and Fed play, and plat to their potential, then it'll be a great one!
Yep, a great 3 set blowout :rolleyes: :lol:

jeanie_sin
06-26-2004, 01:59 AM
Yep, a great 3 set blowout :rolleyes: :lol:

wow, your hatred for him is amazing!

WyveN
06-26-2004, 03:01 AM
I doubt Hewitt will beat Moya let alone Federer

Bee
06-26-2004, 06:59 AM
Lleyton has a lot of respect for Carlos (see Hewitt interview on wimby website) ... so maybe he will be a bit worried about this match. Carlos is enjoying himself, gotten further than anyone thought at Wimbledon, despite not having played here for 3 years. But check Moya's ace count over the last 3 matches, if he serves well, Lleyton SHOULD be worried! I would love to see Carlos win (and get that 'clay-court-specialist' tag ripped off him), but Lleyton can often get inside his opponent's head, and sometimes Carlos has lost important matches only in his mind ... so whoever is stronger mentally will win this ... hope it's a match worth watching! Vamos Carlos! :)

P.S. tennis chick, why do you call Lleyton 'Potato'?? (sorry, I only joined this year, don't know the story)

Deejay
06-26-2004, 09:09 AM
Hewitt is the best counter-puncher in the game, and you will always see the best of him when he plays an opponent who comes to the net alot. I actually thought that Goran should of stayed back a bit as Hewitt must of won 80% of the points when Goran was at the net.

Hewitt's problem is that he doesnt have the technique or pure ball striking ability that today's top players have. Moya will beat him if he is just content to get the ball back in play (which is normally what he does), so he needs to attack from the start to stand a chance, which could work against him as it isnt his natural style. Im still tipping Hewitt over Moya, just on grass-court savvy alone...

Auscon
06-26-2004, 03:40 PM
really hoping Lleyton can grab a win over Moya.....as long as he gets his many tools of the trade firing, I think he should be able to advance

So far this year both of Lleytons grand slam defeats have been at the hands of the eventual winners of the slams....he needs some better draws :)

YoursTruly
06-26-2004, 03:45 PM
Yes, mi chiquito Carlitos can win this. I think that Lleyton kind of overused the whole lob formula in the match with Goran. Players should pick this up because once you use a lob, it can be a sign of a last shot choice, so players should be prepared to do an overhead off one of his lobs. Anticipate that.

Auscon
06-26-2004, 03:49 PM
once you use a lob, it can be a sign of a last shot choice

you really think that with Lleyton though?.....his lob isnt a last choice shot, its a pretty valuable weapon

YoursTruly
06-26-2004, 03:55 PM
Not just Lleyton, but with anyone. A lob is a lob. It's nature can be defensive but can turn to offensive.

Auscon
06-26-2004, 04:05 PM
but when you can hit them that well, I definitely wouldnt have it as a last resort measure

YoursTruly
06-27-2004, 03:13 AM
He just makes it look very offensive. But anyways, the point is that his opponents should already expect this play and be prepared to put it away by overhead.

WyveN
06-27-2004, 03:31 AM
He just makes it look very offensive. But anyways, the point is that his opponents should already expect this play and be prepared to put it away by overhead.

true but it was the perfect strategy against Goran as you couldn't expect old injured Goran to chase those lobs time and time again

SomL.
06-27-2004, 04:58 AM
Come on Lleyton !!!!!!!

tennischick
06-27-2004, 10:40 AM
Yes, mi chiquito Carlitos can win this. I think that Lleyton kind of overused the whole lob formula in the match with Goran. Players should pick this up because once you use a lob, it can be a sign of a last shot choice, so players should be prepared to do an overhead off one of his lobs. Anticipate that.
rubbish. the Potato did not "overuse" any formula. a formula is overused when it ceases to be effective. that simply never occurred.

i disagree that it the lob a sign of a "last shot choice". absolute crapola. a lob is one of two of the more effective strategies against a serve-and-volleyer. the other is a passing shot. the Potato effectively used both strategies against his serve-n-volley opponent.

finally, a perfect lob is unreachable from the air. the arc is so high that even if you jump you cannot reach it. (are you even a tennis player :confused: )

bec Carlos is a baseliner, the Potato would have to come up with a different strategy to beat him. his counterpunching on grass can do the job IMO. of course i'm rooting for Carlos but i'm also admitting that i won't be shocked by a Potato win. :wavey:

Socket
06-27-2004, 01:16 PM
The commentators during the Hewitt/Goran match said that Moya was playing S&V tennis so far this W. Should be interesting if he tries that tomorrow against Hewitt, who loves a target. The grass is still very lush, which will help Lleyton.

CmonAussie
06-27-2004, 02:13 PM
true but it was the perfect strategy against Goran as you couldn't expect old injured Goran to chase those lobs time and time again
:wavey: :p
Yeah the lob was the perfect strategy against "old injured Goran..."-->> & it's also been a match winner during big pressure matches; do you remember the Hewitt vs Ferrero 5-set classic TMC Final in Shanghai 2-years ago?? Rocky Llegs executed a number of perfectly placed massively top-spinning lobs at crucial points>>> especially the beauty he hit on match-point sticks in my memory :worship: :worship: :worship: :angel: !!!

CmonAussie
06-27-2004, 02:21 PM
I doubt Hewitt will beat Moya let alone Federer
:wavey: :rolleyes:
WyveN mate; when Hewitt wins in straight sets tomorrow over Moya can I quote you on the above statment :p ! When Rocky Llegs delivers the staight sets win over 'Classy Moya' I'm sure you'll find a way to pretend it was no big deal :sad: ! For instance you'll say:"so what if Hewitt beats Moya at Wimbledon, it's Moya's worst service...when they meet on Clay again Carlos will make mince-meat out of Potato" :p !
When Hewitt beats the top players everyone one says crap like:"his opponent was injured"; "Hewitt let his opponent make the errors{ie he didn't win he just managed not to lose}"; "his rival was tired from back-to-back tournaments"; "the transition from Clay to Grass is harder for Moya than Hewitt"..... just give him credit when it's due OK :cool: ! So please find something more positive to say about Lleyton when he delivers the straight sets win~ OK ;) !!!

Kristen
06-27-2004, 02:29 PM
Lleyton scored a great win over Moya this year in Sydney... I don't think tomorrow will be straight sets. If Carlos can somehow manage to play the way I remember him playing against Lleyton in previous years, it should be a good contest. It could go either way, although I'll be crossing all my fingers that Moya will be the victor. Then Hewitt might be the one to say "You kick my ass very well" lol...

Trent
06-27-2004, 02:31 PM
Lleyton scored a great win over Moya this year in Sydney...

IIRC, Hewitt won after Moya retired from twisting his foot after the first few games.

CmonAussie
06-27-2004, 02:38 PM
IIRC, Hewitt won after Moya retired from twisting his foot after the first few games.
:p
OK fine dismiss Hewitt's victory in Sydney if you want {Hewitt was up a break 4-3 (30-love) at the time Moya twisted his ankle anyway :sad: !

-->> The last time Hewitt & Moya completed a match was in Dusseldorf WTC in 03; where Rocky Llegs beat Carlos on the Spaniards's favourite surface & Hewitt's worst :worship: :worship: ...

Fedex
06-27-2004, 02:41 PM
Well, everyone Knows Moya chokes in big matches, so.... :sad: And thats the ONLY way he'll lose to Hewitt tomorrow.

star
06-27-2004, 02:43 PM
:lol:

FanOfHewitt
06-27-2004, 02:44 PM
Does anyone think that Hewitt has a better chance of beating Moya now than in previous years becuase he has added a bit of bulk to his frame and can make Carlos respect his groundstrokes a bit more?

That's one aspect that I hope will pay off for Hewitt agaisnt Moya, together with the surface being of help.

CmonAussie, I'm sure WyveN will have nothing but positive things to say about Lleyton should he beat Moya, such as "he has maximised his potential, which is reaching slam quarter finals and should be happy with himself despite having to eat a bagel from Roger"

WyveN
06-27-2004, 02:52 PM
If Hewitt beats Moya it will be his first impressive win in over 4 months so I will acknowledge that

WyveN
06-27-2004, 02:54 PM
:wavey: :rolleyes:
WyveN mate; when Hewitt wins in straight sets tomorrow over Moya can I quote you on the above statment :p !

And if Hewitt doesn't win in straight sets I will quote you, even though it will be pretty boring for me, afterall I have made you eat your words so many times now that it is getting rather repetetive ;)

WyveN
06-27-2004, 02:57 PM
:lol:

I wish all your posts were so simple

tennischick
06-27-2004, 03:00 PM
The commentators during the Hewitt/Goran match said that Moya was playing S&V tennis so far this W. Should be interesting if he tries that tomorrow against Hewitt, who loves a target. The grass is still very lush, which will help Lleyton.
hmmm...interesting. then i hope he changes his strategy bec the Potato is ready for this!

Socket
06-27-2004, 03:02 PM
Does anyone think that Hewitt has a better chance of beating Moya now than in previous years becuase he has added a bit of bulk to his frame and can make Carlos respect his groundstrokes a bit more?

That's one aspect that I hope will pay off for Hewitt agaisnt Moya, together with the surface being of help.

CmonAussie, I'm sure WyveN will have nothing but positive things to say about Lleyton should he beat Moya, such as "he has maximised his potential, which is reaching slam quarter finals and should be happy with himself despite having to eat a bagel from Roger"

Yes, Lleyton's increased strength should help him, as should his improvements in his serve. As should the surface, of course.

Do you ever read the usenet group rec.sport.tennis? I'm sure this WyveN guy is the same person who posts as Whisper there. Same obsession with bashing Hewitt at every turn, and denigrating his achievements and the same repeated predictions that "he'll never win another slam!" Facts and logic are useless against this kind of troll, and he's not adding anything to the discussions, so why waste the time? It's like arguing with somebody who believes in alien abductions.

WyveN
06-27-2004, 03:07 PM
Do you ever read the usenet group rec.sport.tennis? I'm sure this WyveN guy is the same person who posts as Whisper there.


no i am not whisper


Same obsession with bashing Hewitt at every turn


where do I bash Hewitt?


, and denigrating his achievements and the same repeated predictions that "he'll never win another slam!"


Has he won a slam since I said this?


Facts and logic are useless against this kind of troll, and he's not adding anything to the discussions, so why waste the time?


I do offer facts and logic when I criticise Lleyton, where are your facts and logic when you call me a troll and say I bash Hewitt?

where was cmonaussie's facts and logic when he claimed Hewitt would win FO and Hamburg?


It's like arguing with somebody who believes in alien abductions.

Hopefully you will get abducted tonight

star
06-27-2004, 03:10 PM
where do I bash Hewitt?



Lol..... do we have to list every post?

FanOfHewitt
06-27-2004, 03:13 PM
Yes, Lleyton's increased strength should help him, as should his improvements in his serve. As should the surface, of course.

Do you ever read the usenet group rec.sport.tennis? I'm sure this WyveN guy is the same person who posts as Whisper there. Same obsession with bashing Hewitt at every turn, and denigrating his achievements and the same repeated predictions that "he'll never win another slam!" Facts and logic are useless against this kind of troll, and he's not adding anything to the discussions, so why waste the time? It's like arguing with somebody who believes in alien abductions.

Yeah his serve holding up will also be a crucial factor. Here's hoping..

lmfaooo, na I don't happen to read rec.sport.tennis. I have a hard enough time dealing with WyveN's comments here let alone having to read a WyveN/clone on another board.

His comments annoy me but it will just make Lleyton's big victories that little bit sweeter when they do finally come. It will be a laugh when all his "Hewitt will never..." posts lose credibility.

WyveN
06-27-2004, 03:14 PM
Lol..... do we have to list every post?


What have I said about Hewitt that wasn't true?

Ironic that you should join this dicussion as your hate for certain players reaches the point of amazing.

WyveN
06-27-2004, 03:17 PM
His comments annoy me but it will just make Lleyton's big victories that little bit sweeter when they do finally come. It will be a laugh when all his "Hewitt will never..." posts lose credibility.

You along with CmonAussie have already lost all credibility based on some comments about Lleyton, so at worst I will fall down to your level ;)

star
06-27-2004, 03:19 PM
What have I said about Hewitt that wasn't true?

Ironic that you should join this dicussion as your hate for certain players reaches the point of amazing.


I rarely post anything negative about any player. I certainly don't spend time bashing them over and over. I wonder if you can even name the players I dislike the most.

akin
06-27-2004, 03:23 PM
Lleyton is ready...but Carlos...hmmm....lets talk after the match but Lleyton will win. :)

star
06-27-2004, 03:24 PM
I know, Akin. I'm worried about the match. Moya has been playing well.

WyveN
06-27-2004, 03:25 PM
I rarely post anything negative about any player. I certainly don't spend time bashing them over and over.


Where do I bash Hewitt?
Have I started (or even participated) threads debating how he has called umpires spastics? not to mention the racial controversy.
Just about the worst I have said about him was when I offered my opinion that he wont win a slam, I think I am allowed to do that on a message board.


I wonder if you can even name the players I dislike the most.

I I have stopped paying attention to you a long time ago, so no I don't know what players you dislike, could probably guess though.

FanOfHewitt
06-27-2004, 03:35 PM
You along with CmonAussie have already lost all credibility based on some comments about Lleyton, so at worst I will fall down to your level ;)

The only "incredible" things I have said about Lleyton are:

- I believe he will be in the top five again at years end
- I believe he will reach a grand slam semi final or better during his career again
- I believe he is capable of winning a grand slam again
- He is the best Davis Cup player

I don't think I have lost credibility on any of those outlandish statemens as yet.

You haven't lost credibility on your statements yet either. But I have a feeling you will.

Some of the things you have said:

- Hewitt won't reach another grand slam semi final again (later you changed it to final)
- Hewitt won't win a grand slam again
-Federer is a better Davis Cup player than Hewitt becuase he carries his whole country
- Hewitt won't be in the top five at year's end and is a 10th to 7th ranked player in all reality.

I don't mind that you hold any of these beliefs, but I think you hold them partly out of hatred, not reasoning, which is sad.

star
06-27-2004, 03:38 PM
I I have stopped paying attention to you a long time ago, so no I don't know what players you dislike, could probably guess though.

If you stopped paying attention to me, you have a remarkable way of showing it by responding to even my tiniest post. You also think you have enough knowledge of me to say my hate of players reaches the amazing.

But, I guess the latter statement is indicative of the insight of your opinions over all.

WyveN
06-27-2004, 03:43 PM
-Federer is a better Davis Cup player than Hewitt becuase he carries his whole country


I dont remember saying this, it will be very hard to judge as well.



I don't mind that you hold any of these beliefs, but I think you hold them partly out of hatred, not reasoning, which is sad.

If I hated Hewitt I could make far worse comments about Hewitt then the ones you listed above, I could easily say Hewitt is a #18 type player as that is where he was ranked last year, why do you think I say #7-#10?

If I hate Hewitt why do you think I have said many times that Hewitt is the best mentally tough tennis player ever?

Why have I never made big discussions about his racial/"spastic" controversies?

Why dont I say Roddick will never win a slam again, I dislike Roddick just as much as Hewitt.

star
06-27-2004, 03:45 PM
Damm. I was sure you disliked Roddick more than Hewitt.

:haha:

WyveN
06-27-2004, 03:51 PM
If you stopped paying attention to me, you have a remarkable way of showing it by responding to even my tiniest post.


How many of your 13000 have I replied to? Maybe a dozen. The :lol: post was one of your best and deserved a reply.


You also think you have enough knowledge of me to say my hate of players reaches the amazing.


I was referring to some of your Sampras comments. I know you hate Sampras and like Roddick & the Swedes. That is all.


But, I guess the latter statement is indicative of the insight of your opinions over all.

I remember all sort of praise over the insight of my opinions when I defended Roddick in a couple of threads. But then I don't expect anything else from you.

FanOfHewitt
06-27-2004, 04:02 PM
I dont remember saying this, it will be very hard to judge as well..


Well you said Lleyton is no Roger Federer, becuase Federer basically carried his country in his suit case. To which I replied, that's right, Lleyton is no Roger, he is better (since he had beaten Roger in the Davis Cup).


If I hated Hewitt I could make far worse comments about Hewitt then the ones you listed above, I could easily say Hewitt is a #18 type player as that is where he was ranked last year, why do you think I say #7-#10?

If I hate Hewitt why do you think I have said many times that Hewitt is the best mentally tough tennis player ever?

Why have I never made big discussions about his racial/"spastic" controversies?

Why dont I say Roddick will never win a slam again, I dislike Roddick just as much as Hewitt.


Well, you have enough sense not to make outright rediculous comments. I just think that if you didn't dislike Hewitt, you would read his achievements and his projection in the future in a much more positive light.

You know, just saying things like he hasn't beaten anyone in the top 30 for 4 months. You exaggerate the months and you also are incorrect, he has beaten someone in the top 30 in the months you speak of. Not that this is a big deal, it isn't, but it just goes to show that you are willing to (for the majority of times) give a pessimistic reading of what Lleyton has done.

I acknowledge that you have said he is the toughest player mentally ever which is a great compliment to him. But you tend to short change him quite a bit. Like saying he will never win a slam or even reach a semi. It might never happen, and you might turn out ot be right, but to be so confident about it is amazing, especially considering how we have seen the likes of Gaudio, Costa, Verkerk, Johansson reach finals. How can you be so confident Lleyton won't reach another semi final or final again?

Another comment you have made, which is debatable, (but trust you to take a negative spin on it), is thinking Lleyton won't win his matches at a ratio of 3 wins to 1 loss for the year. Even when lleyton slipped last year he was still winning more than 3 matches to the ratio of 1 loss , so I don't see why that should change this year. But you somehow feel that it will.

WyveN
06-27-2004, 04:14 PM
I acknowledge that you have said he is the toughest player mentally ever which is a great compliment to him. But you tend to short change him quite a bit. Like saying he will never win a slam

How many times have I said that Hewitt will never win another slam? Probably once at the start of the year, the only reason it is even discussed is because you keep bringing it up. I believe many players wont win another slam, what makes my opinion of Hewitt special?

How can you be so confident Lleyton won't reach another semi final or final again?


I don't think I said he will never reach semi. I am confident Hewitt wont win another slam because
1) The new generation has arrived
2) Players have began to take advantage of Hewitt's weaknesses
3) Hewitt has already achieved more then he ever hoped so his motivation will never be at total peak again
4) Has already had (and to his credit took advantage) all the luck a player can hope for in a career


Another comment you have made, which is debatable, (but trust you to take a negative spin on it), is thinking Lleyton won't win his matches at a ratio of 3 wins to 1 loss for the year. Even when lleyton slipped last year he was still winning more than 3 matches to the ratio of 1 loss , so I don't see why that should change this year. But you somehow feel that it will.

I certainly dont remember saying this.

FanOfHewitt
06-27-2004, 04:45 PM
How many times have I said that Hewitt will never win another slam? Probably once at the start of the year, the only reason it is even discussed is because you keep bringing it up. I believe many players wont win another slam, what makes my opinion of Hewitt special?.

You have said it a few times and you have also said I can quote you on it, lol, so I am. What makes your opinion of Hewitt special? Well, the fact that he has already won a couple of slams and is only now heading towards the peak of his playing ability.



I don't think I said he will never reach semi. I am confident Hewitt wont win another slam because
1) The new generation has arrived
2) Players have began to take advantage of Hewitt's weaknesses
3) Hewitt has already achieved more then he ever hoped so his motivation will never be at total peak again
4) Has already had (and to his credit took advantage) all the luck a player can hope for in a career

Well you did say it, but only once or twice, in other threads you have said he will never reach a final.

In answer to your reasons:
1. The new generation consists of Federer and Roddick. I think its extremely concievable that one of these two can get knocked out which can open the door for Lleyton reaching a slam final. Heck, lleyton might even have a chance of knocking one of them out himself.

2. They have started to work him out but he is also trying to change to keep up with the pace. E.g bulking up, going for his shots more, trying to improve his serve. So far he hasn't been that successful, but its hard to make a transition straight away.

3. A think a disappointing year or two can get his competitive spirit firing again.

4. Lleyton has had luck, but he has also had a bit of bad luck as well. Every player has had an easy draw in their career, but not every player has won a slam. Let alone two.



I certainly dont remember saying this.
You made this comment either in a French Open thread or in CmonAussie's ''Lleyton to win Hamburg" thread. Can't remember which. I can look it up if you think I'm putting words into your mouth. Same with all the other comments you don't think you've said (lleyton won't reach a semi).

WyveN
06-27-2004, 04:56 PM
Well, the fact that he has already won a couple of slams and is only now heading towards the peak of his playing ability.


So many players stopped winning slams in their early 20s. What is interesting is your desperation to challange my opinion rather then just waiting for Hewitt to prove me wrong.


Well you did say it, but only once or twice, in other threads you have said he will never reach a final.


Do you write down everything I say about Hewitt? I am allowed to revise my opinion,at the moment I believe no slam win and no slam final unless easy draw.



You made this comment either in a French Open thread or in CmonAussie's ''Lleyton to win Hamburg" thread. Can't remember which.

Will be interesting, please find it.

Auscon
06-27-2004, 04:57 PM
just checking out the stats on the Wimbledon site

heres an interesting one...

Player with the best first serve points won percentage

= Lleyton Hewitt (89%)

Now thats gotta be a first for Lleyton.....Moya's not too far behind in 6th place with 85%

Karlovic ofcourse is equal top on 89%, with the top 5 rounded out by Philippoussis and Grosjean on 88%, and Arthurs on 86%

Auscon
06-27-2004, 05:00 PM
Lleytons also in 7th position as far as second serve points won percentage goes, with 70%....Moya is 2 spots above on 71%, so both of these guys are serving brilliantly so far

Philippoussis is clearly the most damaging though with second top first serves, and top second serves

CmonAussie
06-27-2004, 05:04 PM
How many times have I said that Hewitt will never win another slam? Probably once at the start of the year, the only reason it is even discussed is because you keep bringing it up. I believe many players wont win another slam, what makes my opinion of Hewitt special?



I don't think I said he will never reach semi. I am confident Hewitt wont win another slam because
1) The new generation has arrived
2) Players have began to take advantage of Hewitt's weaknesses
3) Hewitt has already achieved more then he ever hoped so his motivation will never be at total peak again
4) Has already had (and to his credit took advantage) all the luck a player can hope for in a career



I certainly dont remember saying this.
:eek: :sad: :p :rolleyes: :cool:
WyveN mate-->> i feel we are kind of friends because it's fun debating with you on MTF but you lose quite a bit of credibility with your short-term memory loss :sad: ! Perhaps you should go to the clinic to confirm whether or not you have an early onset of Alzeimer's Disease :eek: !

BTW~ You are clearly wrong about Hewitt not beating any Top-30 players in the past 4-months; & you definitely said that Lleyton would not continue to win 3/4{75%} of his matches for this year^^ presently Rocky Llegs has won 35/45 matches in season 04 :cool: ! & He's just starting to regain his confidence, so it won't be long before he claims another big title ;) !

PS~ My comments about Hewitt winning Hamburg-TMS or Rolland Garros on Clay were made partly in jest; however considering he made SF & QF at those two tournies & lost to the eventual champion both times I wasn't that far off :angel: !

WyveN
06-27-2004, 05:14 PM
:eek: :sad: :p :rolleyes: :cool:
WyveN mate-->> i feel we are kind of friends because it's fun debating with you on MTF


:hug:


but you lose quite a bit of credibility with your short-term memory loss :sad:


Well it is 3am and I have been on a plane for 12 hours earlier on so perhaps I can rule out Alzeimers.


BTW~ You are clearly wrong about Hewitt not beating any Top-30 players in the past 4-months


Who then?


& you definitely said that Lleyton would not continue to win 3/4{75%} of his matches for this year^^ presently Rocky Llegs has won 35/45 matches in season 04 :cool: ! & He's just starting to regain his confidence, so it won't be long before he claims another big title ;) !


Hewitt barely got over 75% win record in 2002.

FanOfHewitt
06-27-2004, 05:31 PM
So many players stopped winning slams in their early 20s. What is interesting is your desperation to challange my opinion rather then just waiting for Hewitt to prove me wrong..

I just want to remind you (of the opinion you held about Hewitt) so that you don't palm it off as something you said ages ago which means nothing, or something you don't even remember saying, because at the time you were pretty adamant about it. You said it, so you should be prepared to back it up.

I am willing to wait for Hewitt to prove you wrong (if he can) if you are willing to admit that your beliefs were wrong (if they turn out to be so).

I will admit I am wrong if I turn out to be wrong.


Do you write down everything I say about Hewitt? I am allowed to revise my opinion,at the moment I believe no slam win and no slam final unless easy draw...

No I don't write everything you say down, but maybe I should, it would save me the time of trawling through some of the posts you make so that I can find what you said! lol.

You are definitely allowed to revise your opinion, but you should also be held responsible for comments you made in the past. Otherwise, we would have to say you have multiple personalities and you would have to be considered a different person everytime you change your mind.


Will be interesting, please find it.[/QUOTE]


http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=10557&page=2&pp=15

Maybe I should apologise, you didn't exactly say that he won't win 3/4 matches, but really, I think your comment in this thread had the implication of saying that you don't think he will. I don't see how you could read it any other way. But you weren't insistent about it, so maybe you entertained that it was possible, if unlikely.

CmonAussie
06-27-2004, 05:31 PM
:hug:
Hewitt barely got over 75% win record in 2002.
:wavey:
@@ Yeah there are very few people who manage to keep a winning percentage above 75% in a calendar year; actually Hewitt won just above 80% of his matches in 2002 {won 61/lost 15} :p !

BTW~ Seasons 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004... Hewitt has maintained a match winning percentage above 75% {barely} straight :worship: :worship: ! * Not a bad effort remaining so consistently competitive & instinctive for winning since he was 19-years.

PS~ I'll post this year's Stats in a minute; so you can see the Top-30 players he's beaten in recent months :p !

CmonAussie
06-27-2004, 05:42 PM
Lleyton Hewitt (AUS )

Sydney, Australia
International Series, 1/12/2004, O, Hard , Draw: 32
R32 Sargsian, Sargis (ARM ) 13 6-4 6-2
R16 Kucera, Karol (SVK ) 0 6-4 6-1
Q Clement, Arnaud (FRA ) 34 6-1 4-6 6-3
S Verkerk, Martin (NED ) 0 6-2
W Moya, Carlos (ESP ) 2 4-3
This Event Points: 35, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 0, Prize Money: US $ 52000

Australian Open, Australia
Grand Slam, 1/19/2004, O, Hard , Draw: 128
R128 Mamiit, Cecil (USA ) 0 6-2 6-4 1
R64 Kucera, Karol (SVK ) 55 1-6 6-1 6-4 6-1
R32 Nadal, Rafael (ESP ) 8 7-6(2) 7-6(5) 6-2
R16 Federer, Roger (SUI ) 0 6-4 3-6 6 4-6
This Event Points: 30, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 4, Prize Money: US $ 57248

AUS v. SWE WG 1st RD, Australia
DC, 2/6/2004, O, Hard , Draw: 4
RR Soderling, Robin (SWE ) N/A 6-4 6-3 6-1
This Event Points: 0, New Indesit ATP Race Position: N/A, Prize Money: US $ 0

Rotterdam, The Netherlands
International Series Gold, 2/16/2004, I, Hard , Draw: 32
R32 Gonzalez, Fernando (CHI ) 21 6-2 6-1
R16 Johansson, Thomas (SWE ) 38 7-6(6) 7-6(3)
Q Schuettler, Rainer (GER ) 118 7-6(5) 6-3
S Henman, Tim (GBR ) 21 6-3 6-3
W Ferrero, Juan Carlos (ESP ) 4 6-7(1) 7-5 6-4
This Event Points: 50, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 8, Prize Money: US $ 163500

Indian Wells TMS, California, USA
Tennis Masters Series, 3/8/2004, O, Hard , Draw: 96
R128 Bye, () 0
R64 Johansson, Thomas (SWE ) 54 6-2 6-3
R32 Chela, Juan Ignacio (ARG ) 29 3-6 6-4 1-6
This Event Points: 7, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 7, Prize Money: US $ 15600

Miami TMS, FL, U.S.A.
Tennis Masters Series, 3/22/2004, O, Hard , Draw: 96
R128 Bye, () 0
R64 Soderling, Robin (SWE ) 35 6-4 6-2
R32 Pavel, Andrei (ROM ) 30 4-6 5-7
This Event Points: 7, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 9, Prize Money: US $ 19730

Monte Carlo TMS, Monaco
Tennis Masters Series, 4/19/2004, O, Clay , Draw: 64
R64 Benneteau, Julien (FRA ) 96 3-6 6-3 6-4
R32 Gaudio, Gaston (ARG ) 59 1-6 7-6(5) 6-1
R16 Schuettler, Rainer (GER ) 91 4-6 6-3 4-6
This Event Points: 15, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 10, Prize Money: US $ 27000

Rome TMS, Italy
Tennis Masters Series, 5/3/2004, O, Clay , Draw: 64
R64 Seppi, Andreas (ITA ) 173 5-7 7-5 6-3
R32 Pavel, Andrei (ROM ) 16 6-4 3-6 4-6
This Event Points: 7, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 8, Prize Money: US $ 15000

Hamburg TMS, Germany
Tennis Masters Series, 5/10/2004, O, Clay , Draw: 64
R64 Bjorkman, Jonas (SWE ) 52 6-0 7-6(5)
R32 Haas, Tommy (GER ) 45 6-4 7-5
R16 Saretta, Flavio (BRA ) 74 6-4 2-6 6-4
Q Melzer, Jurgen (AUT ) 66 6-4 6-3
S Federer, Roger (SUI ) 1 6 4-6
This Event Points: 45, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 9, Prize Money: US $ 100000

World Team Championship, Dusseldorf, Germany
WT, 5/17/2004, O, Clay , Draw: 64
RR Ginepri, Robby (USA ) 55 7-5 6-7(1) 6-4
RR Verkerk, Martin (NED ) 40 1-6 7-6(2) 7-5
RR Gaudio, Gaston (ARG ) 33 3-6 7-5 6-7(5)
F Gonzalez, Fernando (CHI ) 14 5-7 2-6
This Event Points: 0, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 6, Prize Money: US $ 111900

Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 5/24/2004, O, Clay , Draw: 128
R128 Di Pasquale, Arnaud (FRA ) 183 6-0 7-6(5) 4-6 6-1
R64 Melzer, Jurgen (AUT ) 40 6-4 6-4 4-6 6-2
R32 Verkerk, Martin (NED ) 43 6-2 3-6 4-6 6-2 6-1
R16 Malisse, Xavier (BEL ) 58 7-5 6-2 7-6(6)
Q Gaudio, Gaston (ARG ) 34 3-6 2-6 2-6
This Event Points: 50, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 6, Prize Money: US $ 136021

London / Queen's Club, England
International Series, 6/7/2004, O, Grass , Draw: 56
R64 Bye, () 0
R32 Lopez, Marc (ESP ) 109 6-3 6-2
R16 Marray, Jonathan (GBR ) 0 7-6(2) 7-6(10)
Q Andreev, Igor (RUS ) 58 6-3 7-5
S Roddick, Andy (USA ) 6 6-7(7) 3-6
This Event Points: 20, New Indesit ATP Race Position: 9, Prize Money: US $ 32800


# Not ranking attached to Players indicates position in this year's Champions Race rather than the Entry Ranking!
* Verkerk was Top-20 when Hewitt beat him in Dusseldorf & French Open!

FanOfHewitt
06-27-2004, 05:49 PM
Hewitt has beaten Gaudio (who is now in the top 30), Verkerk twice (who was in the top 30) and Bjorkman in the past 4 months. Not the most impressive list, but most of the time he's been on clay, which he struggles with.

I think he will get some bigger scalps in the second half of the year. Lleyton has tended to finish years off strongly.

WyveN
06-28-2004, 01:09 AM
I just want to remind you (of the opinion you held about Hewitt) so that you don't palm it off as something you said ages ago which means nothing, or something you don't even remember saying, because at the time you were pretty adamant about it. You said it, so you should be prepared to back it up.


So you keep bringing it up yet I am the one filled with hate for Hewitt who "keeps saying he wont win any slams"?



I will admit I am wrong if I turn out to be wrong.


You and CmonAussie can admit to being wrong when you claimed I said certain things that I never said, even implying I have memory problems lol


You are definitely allowed to revise your opinion, but you should also be held responsible for comments you made in the past. Otherwise, we would have to say you have multiple personalities and you would have to be considered a different person everytime you change your mind.


When have I changed mind?


http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=10557&page=2&pp=15

Maybe I should apologise, you didn't exactly say that he won't win 3/4 matches, but really, I think your comment in this thread had the implication of saying that you don't think he will. I don't see how you could read it any other way. But you weren't insistent about it, so maybe you entertained that it was possible, if unlikely.

Maybe you should apologise and so should CmonAussie, once again you have been proven wrong yet I am the one accused of saying things without facts.

You couldn't remember what I said a month ago, I am certain I didn't say a few of the other things you claimed but my point has already been proven.

WyveN
06-28-2004, 01:12 AM
& you definitely said that Lleyton would not continue to win 3/4{75%} of his matches for this year

And I am the one with Alzeimer's Disease?

Mate, this is getting to easy.

WyveN
06-28-2004, 01:13 AM
Hewitt has beaten Gaudio (who is now in the top 30), Verkerk twice (who was in the top 30)


You can't have it both ways.


and Bjorkman in the past 4 months. Not the most impressive list, but most of the time he's been on clay, which he struggles with.



I will give you Bjorkman, but what was he 27th or 28th? My point still stands and your clutching at straws.

FanOfHewitt
06-28-2004, 04:30 AM
So what exactly was your point in answering my post which said that lleyton would win his games to a ratio of 3 wins to 1 loss? Why would you say it hasn't been that way in the last couple of months if you didn't believe that he wouldn't keep it up for the rest of the year? The reason you said it hadn't been that way in the last couple of months is becuase you beleived Hewitt would not be able to do it.

If this wasnt yor intention then what was the point of bringing it up? It makes as much sense as replying "yes, but Hewitt lost his last match" inasnwer to the 3 wins per loss comment I made. It would be irrelevant. So if you were just making an irrelevant comment, then I apologise. If you were implying what I think you were implying, then I don't apologise.

As to the comment about Lleyton not beating anyone in the top 30, you are wrong, I have mentioned at least 2 people that are in the top 30. I think you are the one clutching at straws now.

WyveN
06-28-2004, 04:38 AM
So what exactly was your point in answering my post which said that lleyton would win his games to a ratio of 3 wins to 1 loss? Why would you say it hasn't been that way in the last couple of months if you didn't believe that he wouldn't keep it up for the rest of the year? The reason you said it hadn't been that way in the last couple of months is becuase you beleived Hewitt would not be able to do it.


If I said it before why would I deny it now?

I brought it up because CmonAussie was saying what a great season Hewitt was having because he is at a 3:1 ratio, I simply pointed out that the figure was misleading because over the past few months Hewitt was no where near the 3:1 ratio. Never did I attempt to predict his season ending ratio.

So your putting words in my mouth yet talk about my lack of credibility?


As to the comment about Lleyton not beating anyone in the top 30, you are wrong, I have mentioned at least 2 people that are in the top 30. I think you are the one clutching at straws now.

you are pedantic and obsessed with Hewitt, relax!
I appreciate the laughter this thread has provided me but with the amount of times your arguments have been shot down I would have thought you would retire.

FanOfHewitt
06-28-2004, 05:14 AM
If I said it before why would I deny it now?

I brought it up because CmonAussie was saying what a great season Hewitt was having because he is at a 3:1 ratio, I simply pointed out that the figure was misleading because over the past few months Hewitt was no where near the 3:1 ratio. Never did I attempt to predict his season ending ratio.

So your putting words in my mouth yet talk about my lack of credibility?

I may be putting words into your mouth, but I'm trying to understand what you mean, which in some cases is more important than the words you say, which can be rendered ambiguous, as they indeed are in this case.

Why would your point that it is misleading (that Hewitt is having a good year winning 3:1) make any sense if you didn't think he would fail to keep it up? Like I said, it would make as much sense as bringing up the fact that he has lost his last match. It would be irrelevant. I don't think you would make such an irrelevant comment.

I think you meant that Hewitt wouldn't keep it up. And that's why you brought it up. And I suppose that's what CmonAussie thought too, otherwise he wouldn't have agreed with me in saying that you thought Hewitt wouldn't win at a ratio of 3:1.

This is the comment i made in the Hewitt v Hass thread:

"Well he's pretty much got nothing to lose and everything to gain from here on end. I don't think quite so many would have said he would be top 5 at this stage of the year. If he continues winning 3 out of 4 matches he will be thereabouts come the end of the year."

And this is the comment you made in reply:

"The past 3 months it is no where near 3 out of 4 matches."

Do you mean to say now that you thought that the past three months were not to be indicative of Hewitt's progress for the rest of the year? I reckon you thought the last three months were indicative of the fact that he wouldn't keep up the 3:1 win loss ration for the rest of the year. Especially since you thought lleyton had been lucky at the start of the year, getting a win over Verkerk, Moya when they were injured.

Even though I find it hard to believe, I will accept your final answer on this if you didn't mean what I thought you meant. And I am sorry to have misinterpreted you if that is the case.

you are pedantic and obsessed with Hewitt, relax!
I appreciate the laughter this thread has provided me but with the amount of times your arguments have been shot down I would have thought you would retire.

I admit I am pedantic. Now admit that you were wrong about the "hasn't beaten anyone in the top 30" comment and that your point doesn't stand.

Kristen
06-28-2004, 08:43 AM
IIRC, Hewitt won after Moya retired from twisting his foot after the first few games.

yep ;) That was what my point was... In the matches when I've watched (live or on tv) Hewitt vs Moya, Carlos has played great tennis, and is more than capable of defeating Hewitt. I didn't point out my sarcasm very well though :wavey: kom igen carlos!

SomL.
06-28-2004, 10:20 AM
:angel: :angel: FONT=Comic Sans MS]Go Lleyton against Moya !!!!!!!!!!! [/FONT] :angel: :angel:

Kristen
06-28-2004, 11:00 AM
The positive is that I get to see Carlos play.
The negative is that I have to look at Hewitt during the match; because I'll probably tape it, unless I get something better, like Popp vs Roddick. Another person I don't particularly want to put on a tape. (Roddick that is. I adore Mr. Popp ;) ) Its not that I dislike Roddick... just his service motion :(

Yashirobai
06-28-2004, 12:43 PM
:p
OK fine dismiss Hewitt's victory in Sydney if you want {Hewitt was up a break 4-3 (30-love) at the time Moya twisted his ankle anyway :sad: !

Actually, it was not that way. When Moyá had the injury he was losing 3-3, serving and facing a triple break point, which Hewitt won after Moyá fell down because of the ankle injury. Then, it was 4-3 for Hewitt, a break up. But Moyá decided to see if he could keep playing or not, so he played two more points. But he could hardly move, he couldn't play, so he retired after he lost those two points, which is 30-0. But, before Moyá got injured, the score was 3-3, 0-40, Moyá at serve, in the middle of a rally...

star
06-28-2004, 05:13 PM
:yippee: Hewitt!!!

Socket
06-28-2004, 05:41 PM
:yippee: Hewitt!!!

Star, you are eloquent! :worship: :worship:

tennischick
06-28-2004, 08:31 PM
i told y'all the Potato is playiing well. :mad: who's gonna have the honor of peeling him now that our Premier Peeler has been dulled? :devil: