Federer and Nadal : Who is Headed South Faster [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Federer and Nadal : Who is Headed South Faster

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 03:20 AM
ok lets cut through the chase. it is readily apparent now that these 2 warriors are going south in terms of their games for various reasons.

Nadal has not won a title since last july and by the time he pulls up in Monte Carlo, he still will not have won a title. Equally incredible is the fact that Fed has yet to win a single title this year. he could leave Monte Carlo and still be titleless.

now the 2 key questions for thought: who is headed south faster and why? and secondly, can they reverse the slide. if so, how?

the new imperatives suggest that Djokovic is racing full steam ahead in his pursuit of the top gun status. some believe that he is already the best player in the world and that rankings will catch up soon enough. Can Nadal and Fed stop him this year and reverse their own slides in the process?

Albop
03-23-2008, 03:37 AM
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/golem85/thread%20sucks.jpg

sawan66278
03-23-2008, 03:38 AM
Its a LONG season. Last year, Rafa, for the first six months, was the best player in the world. However, by the end of the year, there was no question: Roger was the best...having won Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Masters Cup. This year, with the addition of the Olympics, there's a LOT of tennis to be played.

If one looks at the season as made up like a basketball game, after Miami the first quarter is over. Even a 20 point lead in the NBA is not safe after the first quarter...anything can happen. Rafa could still end the year #1...as could Roger...as could Novak...even Tsonga...if things went his way.


TO EARLY TO TELL.

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 03:39 AM
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/golem85/thread%20sucks.jpg


can you elaborate? thanks in advance.

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 03:43 AM
Its a LONG season. Last year, Rafa, for the first six months, was the best player in the world. However, by the end of the year, there was no question: Roger was the best...having won Wimbledon, the U.S. Open and the Masters Cup. This year, with the addition of the Olympics, there's a LOT of tennis to be played.

If one looks at the season as made up like a basketball game, after Miami the first quarter is over. Even a 20 point lead in the NBA is not safe after the first quarter...anything can happen. Rafa could still end the year #1...as could Roger...as could Novak...even Tsonga...if things went his way.


TO EARLY TO TELL.

so you are saying that by Wimbledon, the order might be restored? in other words, are you saying that if Rafa runs the tables on clay and Fed bags Wimby, we are right back to normal?

do you see that happening?

sawan66278
03-23-2008, 03:47 AM
I think the men's game is so deep...the top spot will be up for grabs from this point forward. Rafa, Novak, Fed, Tsonga...even Murray will all have a shot...

The 80's/90's of tennis at the top are a returnin'

gnaz
03-23-2008, 04:02 AM
Federer is headed south faster obviously because the mono can stay with lingering effects in your body for 1 year or more..... look at Ancic.... I expect Fed to not win any slams this year at all... probably no MS as well. He will be lucky to win MM tournaments....

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 04:07 AM
I think the men's game is so deep...the top spot will be up for grabs from this point forward. Rafa, Novak, Fed, Tsonga...even Murray will all have a shot...

The 80's/90's of tennis at the top are a returnin'


how does the landscape change so rapidly. both Nadal and Fed have been very dominant top 2 for the last 3-4 years. no one has come close until Djokovic started making great strides last year.

so now we have 3 at the top isolated significantly from the rest of the field. Mardy`s run is an abberation here.

we know Nadal cannot play on hard courts and you can only win on gut and heart for so long and so many times. he beat Tsonga and Blake but both had him on a string like a hapless rat. he said today he is worn out from those 2 matches. and that is after a day off. he makes his points on the clay circuit but he has been able to get enough wins to stay at the top.

Fish did beat Hewitt which was a good win but clearly something is wrong with Fed. the guy has lost close to 15 pounds. This is not the kind of a match that Fed usually loses. so on the basis of just one deep run by a player ranked #98, you are saying that it is getting crowded at the top.

both Fed and Nadal are headed south. how much and how fast is not clear. they could turn things around and restore the order. what is also clear is that there is still great deal of distance between these 3 and the rest of the field. they are still far more consistent than their rivals.

i think Nadal`s fall is going to be more steep by the way. looks like he is losing on all fronts. he said he is worn out from his matches against Blake and Tsonga. this shows how much fitness he has lost. he had all kinds of problems on the court today but the most visible one to me was the movement. he is not moving as well as he was a year ago. usually his speed and movement allows him to compensate for other defficiencies to some extent.

Motoflou
03-23-2008, 04:19 AM
are you saying that if Rafa runs the tables on clay and Fed bags Wimby, we are right back to normal?

do you see that happening?

YES.

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 05:02 AM
Federer is headed south faster obviously because the mono can stay with lingering effects in your body for 1 year or more..... look at Ancic.... I expect Fed to not win any slams this year at all... probably no MS as well. He will be lucky to win MM tournaments....


but Fed still has major arsenal in his bag. Nadal has not improved his game in 2 years. and now the damn fitness problem. i dont understand how he could have let his fitness drop knowing that it is the single most important element of his game.

if you saw the match today, you saw that there is a significant drop in his fitness and his movement. in fact, after the match, he said that he was tired from his 2 matches against Blake and Tsonga. he even had a day off and he was still worn out and stale today.

lets forget the points. his game is headed south faster than Fed`s game.

NinaNina19
03-23-2008, 05:03 AM
can you elaborate? thanks in advance.You made it.

~*BGT*~
03-23-2008, 05:05 AM
This year: Roddick>>>>>> Federer and Nadal and that's saying a lot. :tape: :help:

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 05:07 AM
You made it.


whaaaaaaaaaaaaz up NinaNina? i am just remimded of Gulbis looking at your sig. are you keeping up with him? is he playing in Miami?

JediFed
03-23-2008, 06:34 AM
So Claydeath will suck off Fish if he beats Djokovic?

That I wouldn't mind seeing honestly. :D

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 06:38 AM
So Claydeath will suck off Fish if he beats Djokovic?

That I wouldn't mind seeing honestly. :D

what are you talking about? try making some sense at least? what does Fish beating Djokovic have to do with price of tea in China?

its not happening anyway. Fish is no match for Djokovic.

Rogiman
03-23-2008, 06:39 AM
Federer's loss was worse by far, plus Nadal has many positives to take from this week, so...

But neither has said the last word...

JediFed
03-23-2008, 06:41 AM
Yes, indeed the Federer loss was far worse then Nadal's loss.

And yes, Fish has been hotter then blazes. Djokovic was very lucky to beat Wawa. He's been inconsistant.

We shall see.

If Nadal can beat Blake, and Fish beat Federer, then why is Fish taking the whole kit and kaboodle impossible?

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 06:52 AM
Federer's loss was worse by far, plus Nadal has many positives to take from this week, so...

But neither has said the last word...


i am not sure i agree. Fed had a reason. remember that the last time he played Fish, he allowed Fish just 3 games. it was on grass. clearly something was wrong. i think Fed was not well today.

Nadal on the other hand flat stunk up the court. he won just 40 points to djoker`s 61. that is called demolition or total destruction. part of is was self-imposed.

Nadal has not only failed to improve, he has lost ground even in his fitness. this is taking away from his once great movement. he said after the match that he was tired from having to play Blake and Tsonga. he did have a day off yesterday.

i gotta disagree guys. Fed still has the most complete game around. Nadal has a limited game. he is nothing without his fitness and his movement.

it is going to take a major effort to turn things around. he has to decide how bad he wants it. he has to find a way to get fitter and better so he never has to tell reporters again that Djokovic was on the court for fewer hours than he was during the course of this tournament. or that he was tired. he has to will himself a better, more improved game and he has to take his fitness higher than ever. hopefull it will happen in a year or 2.

for now, his decline is more dramatic than Fed. Fed is damn hard to beat on grass while i dont see Nadal in the finals there again.

leng jai
03-23-2008, 07:58 AM
This year: Roddick>>>>>> Federer and Nadal and that's saying a lot. :tape: :help:

Winning 2 MM tournaments is better than getting to a GS semi/ TMS semi? :haha:

Manon
03-23-2008, 08:12 AM
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/golem85/thread%20sucks.jpg

I have to agree with albop! This is end of the world. What a stupid thread....

Horatio Caine
03-23-2008, 08:17 AM
To answer the thread: Rafa.

Rafa is too one-dimensional, and unless he starts to attack on a more regular basis, I see him falling away from major contention for titles on the faster surfaces.

There must be something currently wrong with Roger...

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 08:24 AM
I have to agree with albop! This is end of the world. What a stupid thread....


looking into who could fall further or who is falling faster and why is a discussion that is taking place in all tennis circles now.

can you explain why the thread sucks? also, how convenient it is just try to shoot down somebody than actually discuss something or even starting a thread.

Sean.J.S.
03-23-2008, 08:35 AM
I think Federer should be more concerned. At least for Rafa he has the clay season coming up and he always seems to gain his confidence there. Then again, if he starts losing on clay, well then there is serious cause for concern. :unsure:

BlueSwan
03-23-2008, 08:46 AM
Both are looking out of sorts for sure. However, it is still too early to tell on both accounts. Federer has had an illness that he probably hasn't fully recovered from and Nadal just beat two roasters before losing to Djokovic who just IS a much better hardcourt player than he is.

I think the most likely scenario is that Djokovic will become #1 in the world before the year is over. However, players have crumbled in the past when it came down to crunch time. Djokovic have so far been less consistent than Federer and Nadal. He'll need to improve on his consistency, but I believe that he will do so and win the US Open in the process.

The second most likely scenario right now is that Federer will regroup and regain his impressive consistency. He won't dominate like before, but he'll do enough to stay #1 and win Wimbledon and the US Open. Djokovic and Nadal will fight it out for #2.

The third most likely scenario is that Nadal will benefit from utterly dominating the clay court scene. He'll pretty much put in another season like 2005, 2006 and 2007 and that will be enough to become #1 given that both Federer and Djokovic will fail to dominate the hard court scene where competition is greater.

BlueSwan
03-23-2008, 08:47 AM
I think Federer should be more concerned. At least for Rafa he has the clay season coming up and he always seems to gain his confidence there. Then again, if he starts losing on clay, well then there is serious cause for concern. :unsure:

Yeah, I completely agree.

Bibberz
03-23-2008, 09:36 AM
looking into who could fall further or who is falling faster and why is a discussion that is taking place in all tennis circles now.

can you explain why the thread sucks? also, how convenient it is just try to shoot down somebody than actually discuss something or even starting a thread.

Clay Death, you've got to develop a thicker skin and let some of these remarks go. I'm sure you know that any given MTF thread will elicit a fair share of overly sarcastic or irrational posts. My unsolicited advice: pick your battles.

Bilbo
03-23-2008, 09:44 AM
This mono thing Federer has. From where is it coming from? I've never heard of anyone I know who had this.

Roland9
03-23-2008, 10:53 AM
Both are looking out of sorts for sure. However, it is still too early to tell on both accounts. Federer has had an illness that he probably hasn't fully recovered from and Nadal just beat two roasters before losing to Djokovic who just IS a much better hardcourt player than he is.

I think the most likely scenario is that Djokovic will become #1 in the world before the year is over. However, players have crumbled in the past when it came down to crunch time. Djokovic have so far been less consistent than Federer and Nadal. He'll need to improve on his consistency, but I believe that he will do so and win the US Open in the process.

The second most likely scenario right now is that Federer will regroup and regain his impressive consistency. He won't dominate like before, but he'll do enough to stay #1 and win Wimbledon and the US Open. Djokovic and Nadal will fight it out for #2.

The third most likely scenario is that Nadal will benefit from utterly dominating the clay court scene. He'll pretty much put in another season like 2005, 2006 and 2007 and that will be enough to become #1 given that both Federer and Djokovic will fail to dominate the hard court scene where competition is greater.

Agreed with everything said here.

We will most likely see Fed and Nadal struggle even more this year... I think both Fed's Wimby and Nadal's RG titles are in danger now more than ever. But then again, we might just see them picking up their games at their favourite surfaces... And one thing I definetely agree is that if Fed does recover, his "domination" will not be the same.

I think Fed's mono accompanied with his "psuedo-decline" that started last year definetly resulted in a huge lack of physical form, and even worse, some lack of motivation.. We're almost at the end of March and the guy played only 12 matches. That's really bad.

As for Nadal... It's just frustrating to watch him these days. His fighter side is always good to watch but he just can't go on like this... Especially, IMO, with his current serve, can be so much better..

platinum
03-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Rafael will win the French Open while Novak will win Wimbledon and the USO.

Albop
03-23-2008, 01:50 PM
can you elaborate? thanks in advance.

THIS THREAD SUCKS BECAUSE:

[_] It's talking about federer and/or Nadal decline
[_] it's talking about federer and nadal decline in the same thread :silly:
[_] Original poster is Clay Death
[_] Original poster is Clay Death
[_] Original poster is Clay Death


:)

Burrow
03-23-2008, 01:54 PM
Federer is 27 this year and Nadal 22, enough said.

Although neither of them are going down.

Mansave_75
03-23-2008, 02:29 PM
Oh yes actually Nadal is right now at 21, I can't see a player whose decline starts at 21, is very soon to go to south... too soon, he has at least two more years to that.

tennizen
03-23-2008, 02:34 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=119913

The thread above was started at 7:34 pm yesterday. Your thread was started at 11:20 pm yesterday. Now give me one good reason ( and I am actually trying to be reasonable here) why your thread should exist after the other thread has been created.

Slasher
03-23-2008, 03:28 PM
Maybe Nadal will drop to no. 3 after the clay season. But I doubt if the likes of Davydenko, Roddick and Ferrer can form a threat to the top 3. Maybe Nalbandian.

NinaNina19
03-23-2008, 03:35 PM
Federer is 27 this year and Nadal 22, enough said.

Although neither of them are going down.
I was not aware it was August.

Branimir
03-23-2008, 03:39 PM
Nadal has one major issue, and that is his game is based on movement, fast movement. He can't finish points easily when he needs to, that is going to hurt his career.

Mansave_75
03-23-2008, 03:49 PM
Don't underestimate Nadal, who's Djokovic compare to him???...

NinaNina19
03-23-2008, 03:51 PM
Don't underestimate Nadal, who's Djokovic compare to him???...

Better?

iriraz
03-23-2008, 04:19 PM
U never know in what direction the players are going.If u think about Borg he headed south and never came back,Agassi went there and became a better player then before.

MatchFederer
03-23-2008, 04:26 PM
Check their respective calenders and flight dates.

Havok
03-23-2008, 05:03 PM
Winning 2 MM tournaments is better than getting to a GS semi/ TMS semi? :haha:
Dubai is hardle a MM tournament. Moron.

Federer has also yet to score a win over a top 10 player. He lost to Djokovic, and can't beat the lesser opponents to even get a shot at the top players anymore. :help:

Warch him strike back at Miami and then start winning everything in sight like usualy :yawn:.

Burrow
03-23-2008, 05:20 PM
Oh yes actually Nadal is right now at 21, I can't see a player whose decline starts at 21, is very soon to go to south... too soon, he has at least two more years to that.

I said that Nadal is 22 this year, actually...

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 05:25 PM
Clay Death, you've got to develop a thicker skin and let some of these remarks go. I'm sure you know that any given MTF thread will elicit a fair share of overly sarcastic or irrational posts. My unsolicited advice: pick your battles.

excellent advice. much obliged Bachelor Dandy.

DDrago2
03-23-2008, 05:48 PM
ok lets cut through the chase. it is readily apparent now that these 2 warriors are going south in terms of their games for various reasons.

Nadal has not won a title since last july and by the time he pulls up in Monte Carlo, he still will not have won a title. Equally incredible is the fact that Fed has yet to win a single title this year. he could leave Monte Carlo and still be titleless.

now the 2 key questions for thought: who is headed south faster and why? and secondly, can they reverse the slide. if so, how?

the new imperatives suggest that Djokovic is racing full steam ahead in his pursuit of the top gun status. some believe that he is already the best player in the world and that rankings will catch up soon enough. Can Nadal and Fed stop him this year and reverse their own slides in the process?

You talk about Federer like he is a sort of equal of Nadal and Djokovic. He has 12 GS, he revolutionised the game with his all-court style and greatly helped to save tennis when the sport was in the biggest crisis. Don't forget that (and for me, his game is more inspiring than Nadals and Djokovic's together)

Now as for recent problems of Federer, right now they seem to me to be health-related, where for Nadal it's too early to say he is goind down since for now he is having a good season

Grunge
03-23-2008, 06:14 PM
Hm, Nadal has exactly the same season pointwise like in 2007. And that was his best first quarter of season ever. Maybe you have too big expectations? After IW he will have same amount of race points as last year after same tournament (+- 10 points). ;)

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 06:19 PM
You talk about Federer like he is a sort of equal of Nadal and Djokovic. He has 12 GS, he revolutionised the game with his all-court style and greatly helped to save tennis when the sport was in the biggest crisis. Don't forget that (and for me, his game is more inspiring than Nadals and Djokovic's together)

Now as for recent problems of Federer, right now they seem to me to be health-related, where for Nadal it's too early to say he is goind down since for now he is having a good season


Fed is clearly one of the most dominant athletes ever. his 12 slams and near total domination of the sport for the last 4 years attest to that. his record is not likely to be equalled easily.

that said, we are seeing his game and his health take a hit.

goldenlox
03-23-2008, 06:21 PM
Nadal is a great clay courter. Until he loses a French Open, he's not headed south.
Federer can see the south pole without binoculars from where his game is now.

Exodus
03-23-2008, 06:33 PM
nadal to fall out of top ten by the end of this year. He won't win any big titles anymore losing all his clay titles hahaha

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 06:44 PM
nadal to fall out of top ten by the end of this year. He won't win any big titles anymore losing all his clay titles hahaha


hard court titles may be a thing of the past for him.

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 08:21 PM
Oh yes actually Nadal is right now at 21, I can't see a player whose decline starts at 21, is very soon to go to south... too soon, he has at least two more years to that.

but there has been no improvement in his game for the last 2 years. in fact, he is far worse now on hard courts than he was 2 years ago.

and with the competition improving around him, and he readily acknowledges this, would you not say that the drop is steep with no end in sight.

his game and fitness is in so much disarray now he cant even think straight. he cant even concentrate anymore. he says he mentally checked out against Seppi in Rotterdam.

now he has "concentrate" written on his hand. his movement was shocking yesterday. further, he said he was very tired from his 2 previous matches.

groundstroke
03-23-2008, 10:30 PM
many, many titles to go.

Black Adam
03-23-2008, 10:52 PM
When Mellow Yellow is avoiding GM you know things are bad for Cheese-man.
All she does is gloat and blow smoke up his ass but his season so far gives no reason to do so.

Clay Death
03-23-2008, 10:52 PM
many, many titles to go.

lets hope so.

jasmin
03-23-2008, 11:06 PM
Doesn't matter. Just hope Djokovic reign is as short as Hewitt's reign. Until next year.

Sean
03-24-2008, 12:30 AM
Nadull definately is on the decline his HC game is nowhere near the top 5. Soon he will start losing on the dirt too. Its only a matter of time. He'll win one or 2 clay titles but will not dominate. His 1st title will be MC or Roma.

Fed's not looking good at all either. I think Fed will pull of a big shock and win his 1st title will at RG.

Clay Death
03-24-2008, 12:40 AM
Nadull definately is on the decline his HC game is nowhere near the top 5. Soon he will start losing on the dirt too. Its only a matter of time. He'll win one or 2 clay titles but will not dominate. His 1st title will be MC or Roma.

Fed's not looking good at all either. I think Fed will pull of a big shock and win his 1st title will at RG.


i am not too sure about Fed winning at Roland Garros. he could not do it at the very peak of his dominance so no reason to believe that he can do it now.

also, we still have to give Nadal the benefit of the doubt on clay. i dont see him winning 5 titles on clay but 4 is a strong possibility. he will not lose at Roland Garros.

gnaz
03-24-2008, 12:56 AM
Doesn't matter. Just hope Djokovic reign is as short as Hewitt's reign. Until next year.

could be..

gnaz
03-24-2008, 12:58 AM
Nadull definately is on the decline his HC game is nowhere near the top 5. Soon he will start losing on the dirt too. Its only a matter of time. He'll win one or 2 clay titles but will not dominate. His 1st title will be MC or Roma.

Fed's not looking good at all either. I think Fed will pull of a big shock and win his 1st title will at RG.

no way, fed is too weak now to win the fo this year coz of the mono. winning the fo is all about stamina and fed has zero stamina this year coz of the mono which has lingering effects for many months. he wont be the fed we know until like august or sept.

gnaz
03-24-2008, 01:00 AM
i am not too sure about Fed winning at Roland Garros. he could not do it at the very peak of his dominance so no reason to believe that he can do it now.

also, we still have to give Nadal the benefit of the doubt on clay. i dont see him winning 5 titles on clay but 4 is a strong possibility. he will not lose at Roland Garros.

agree

FedFan_2007
03-24-2008, 01:11 AM
Clay Death - I think you are overly harsh to Nadal. He has only 1 loss on clay(Federer) the last 3 years. How can you count him out on that surface?

FedFan_2007
03-24-2008, 01:15 AM
Another thing to note about Roger - people counted him out before and he always came back roaring. How many of you had faith at 15-40 in the 5set Wimby final that he WOULD get the job done? After that, I have no doubts that Fed will come back and have a great year.

Sean
03-24-2008, 01:20 AM
no way, fed is too weak now to win the fo this year coz of the mono. winning the fo is all about stamina and fed has zero stamina this year coz of the mono which has lingering effects for many months. he wont be the fed we know until like august or sept.

I see that. Right now Roger is an absolute mess.
But RG is what Fed really really wants he already has everything else, so he will be mentally 100% dedicated he will take the necessary precautions and make sure he is fit and well.

Whereas Rafa will play a 1000 tournies he will tire himself out as he cant win a point in less than 30 strokes. Nalby/Ferrer/Nole will prob pull out some big wins over him knocking his confidence. and Roger will step in.

Roland9
03-24-2008, 01:25 AM
Another thing to note about Roger - people counted him out before and he always came back roaring.

He didn't have any handicaps to his physical form back then, and the competition has improved as well...

Sure, he can make a roaring come back still, but it's a strong possibility that this year will be very different for Fed.

Clara Bow
03-24-2008, 01:27 AM
Whereas Rafa will play a 1000 tournies he will tire himself out as he cant win a point in less than 30 strokes. Nalby/Ferrer/Nole will prob pull out some big wins over him knocking his confidence. and Roger will step in.

Rafa did not play that many clay court tournaments last year (around six?) nor in 2006 (around five?). And is not scheduled to play that many this year. I am not saying he will not lose, but since 2005, Rafa has not played that many clay court tournaments at all. He does not play over-abundance of clay court tournaments- just goes far in them. There is this idea that he pads his schedule with as many clay court tournaments as he can- but iirc, in 2006 he had only one or two clay court tournaments that were not Masters or RG and in 2006 he had I think two.

As to the question at hand...I am more surprised by Feds' stumbles this years than Rafa's (outside of his loss to Seppi) but I am not ready to write Federer's obit yet. Nor am I ready to say that Rafa is going to go out of the top five or anything this year. I have not yet seen him play on clay yet...so I can't judge yet. I will not be surprised if he is out of the top two at the end of this year- but that does not mean that I feel his career will be a freefall. In the 1980s and 1990s you had some periods of steady mobility among the top players if that makes any sense (AA of course as an exception) we could be going into a period where we have a group that is a fairly constant top five or ten- but the can change among the individuals- even those in the top three.

FedFan_2007
03-24-2008, 01:27 AM
Bottom line there are still 8 MS events, 3 slams, TMC and a fistful of IS/ISG events for Roger to play. He still has 83% of his schedule to complete. If he's still titleless after 5 events, I'll start to be worried. Let's see what happens in Miami & Estoril.

Clay Death
03-24-2008, 01:34 AM
Clay Death - I think you are overly harsh to Nadal. He has only 1 loss on clay(Federer) the last 3 years. How can you count him out on that surface?


just overly worried/concerned. i just hope his knees stay healthy enough for him to make one more great run on the clay circuit. next year will take care of itself.

i have no doubt that he will take Rome, Hamburg, and Roland Garros. and Stuttgart which comes after Wimby.

he may be vulnerable at Monte Carlo in the early going.

FedFan_2007
03-24-2008, 02:37 AM
CD - Monte Carlo has been his most dominant event, why are you worried for him there?

Marek.
03-24-2008, 02:44 AM
CD - Monte Carlo has been his most dominant event, why are you worried for him there?

That's true. If anything he'd probably lose at Rome as that is where he's been the most vulnerable these past years (not including Hamburg).

Corey Feldman
03-24-2008, 02:53 AM
How about this for stat of the day (from yesterday)

number of BH winners from Nadal/Fed combined during their semi final matches: 1.

and it was Fed who got it, just incase you wondered.

Clay Death
03-24-2008, 03:00 AM
CD - Monte Carlo has been his most dominant event, why are you worried for him there?


fair question. it will be his first event. he is in a mess confidence wise and he is in a worst slump of his career. some of this could spill over to clay but only for the first event before he gets his bearings right and turns himself into a Clay Monster that he is.

in other words, it may take a tournament before he can get in his full clay mode. i hope he kicks ass in Monte Carlo. i am just trying to be conservative in my prediction.

ionah
04-06-2008, 11:18 PM
bump

Albop
04-06-2008, 11:18 PM
hahahahhaha

pochoster
04-06-2008, 11:22 PM
I will wait for the clay season to make my comment here. :D

elessar
04-06-2008, 11:34 PM
How about this for stat of the day (from yesterday)

number of BH winners from Nadal/Fed combined during their semi final matches: 1.

and it was Fed who got it, just incase you wondered.
:lol: Brillant stat, that rivals the 3 BH winners from Roddick at the AO five setters against Kohli

dwynn10
04-07-2008, 12:16 AM
You made it.

:haha: Good one!

Clay Death
04-07-2008, 03:45 AM
I will wait for the clay season to make my comment here. :D


they are both doing a good job of hanging on to their rankings and thats about it. Anderson helped out Nadal big time but its not going to last. now there is nearly zero margin of safety going into the clay circuit.

he has to win every single match and every single tournament. the only exception is Hamburg where he will only need to make the finals. its just not happening this year. he will win at Roland Garros but a loss or 2 on clay are just about academic. some of the players around him are improving and he has failed to keep up.

for instance, he beat Davydenko on a similar surface that played slightly faster in Shangahai in 2006 and today he was steamrolled. he was outserved and out returned and destroyed off the ground. that is not progress. 0 hard court titles in over a year. you can call that progress for a top player but i think i will just call it stagnation.

i said this before and i will say it again. i have seen no improvement in his game for the last 2 years. further and what is worse, he has allowed his fitness to decline. you can only go so far on guts, hustle, and grit. and when you are tired, hustle, guts, and grit go away fast. he complained bitterly about how tired he was in Indian Wells after his 2 matches against Blake and Tsonga. well its time to pay the piper.

do something. either improve you serve and return of serve or just get more fit so you can hustle all day long.

Fed is ill but Nadal is in denial to some extent or just clueless along with his team. would you believe that his coach told him to feed Davydenko dink shots today. that means that they are even scared to rally with him from the ground. what else does Nadal have if he does not have a ground game. he sure as hell doesnt have a serve and return of serve.

Segura is right. do something. improve fitness if you cant improve other parts of the game.

Bernard Black
03-20-2009, 07:54 PM
Bump, and this kids, is why we don't bandwagon.

Clay Death
03-20-2009, 08:01 PM
Bump, and this kids, is why we don't bandwagon.

just what are you talking about old sport. go back and read the original post. they were both headed south when that post was made.

you saw how badly Clay Monster was beaten at Paris Masters and Madrid Masters. you saw that Fed ran all over him at the Masters Cup. even Youzhny destroyed him in India. then Tsonga ran all over him at the Australian Open. Djokovic killed him at Indian Wells. Davydenko demolished him in Miami. just what the hell do you think the tennis world was thinking at that point? you call that bandwagon stuff. i say wake up and smell the coffee.

the question was this: can they stop the slide and also stop Djokovic in his tracks. you saw where Djokovic was just 1 match away--or just 1 set away as in Hamburg--from taking over the #2 spot.

the Clay Monster found a way. Fed has been slowly heading south ever since. how many masters events did he win in 2008? the answer is zero. rest, as they say, is history. all there for all to see.

i see zero evidence of bandwagoning. Clay Monster had a very long dry spell. i was wondering same as countless others as to when and how he was going to turn his fortunes around. it turns out that he did it in Hamburg and never looked back.

***if this was an attempt to make me look bad, i would say that you need to try again.

ORGASMATRON
03-20-2009, 08:05 PM
ok lets cut through the chase. it is readily apparent now that these 2 warriors are going south in terms of their games for various reasons.

Nadal has not won a title since last july and by the time he pulls up in Monte Carlo, he still will not have won a title. Equally incredible is the fact that Fed has yet to win a single title this year. he could leave Monte Carlo and still be titleless.

now the 2 key questions for thought: who is headed south faster and why? and secondly, can they reverse the slide. if so, how?

the new imperatives suggest that Djokovic is racing full steam ahead in his pursuit of the top gun status. some believe that he is already the best player in the world and that rankings will catch up soon enough. Can Nadal and Fed stop him this year and reverse their own slides in the process?

Wow unvelievable wisdom in this post. Rafa and Roger have been dominating tennis for years now and will do so for some time to come.

Next.

ORGASMATRON
03-20-2009, 08:07 PM
Bump, and this kids, is why we don't bandwagon.

Great bump!

Arkulari
03-20-2009, 08:09 PM
I have to agree with ruanz, Roger and Rafa are still both too much ahead of the other players, and I'm not only talking about the race points but also in tournament results, specially on grand slams :shrug:

the key is their consistence, no one does better at tournaments overall than they do ;)

ORGASMATRON
03-20-2009, 08:13 PM
Clay death makes crap posts, the other one was Fed's last stand and now Fed is revived in 09. I wont even mention that silly Nadal chat thread that he's got going :lol:

Clay Death
03-20-2009, 08:15 PM
I have to agree with ruanz, Roger and Rafa are still both too much ahead of the other players, and I'm not only talking about the race points but also in tournament results, specially on grand slams :shrug:

the key is their consistence, no one does better at tournaments overall than they do ;)

you are still missing the point. you are making your remarks--just like that clueless termite---15 months after the fact.
read my post above and then decide why i made this thread at the time when i made it.

i really dont have time for those who are blind and have sworn to live and die in darkness.

ORGASMATRON
03-20-2009, 08:19 PM
:lol:

Arkulari
03-20-2009, 08:27 PM
I wasn't talking about your post CD, I was talking about ruanz post, which is still valid at this time, with the Muzza rising and the Djoker factor ;)

btw: I'm not a termite, just a die-hard Fedal fan ;)

RobyBaggio
03-20-2009, 08:27 PM
The original post was very rightful to make at the time that it was made. Roger hadn't won a single title, and Rafa (as everybody seems to have forgotten and is mentioned very correctly) was blown away by Federer in Masters 07 and really ridiculed by Tsonga at AO. He, too, was titleless.

Now if, and only if, in that post the prediction was made that they were going to be hopeless the entire year, then yes the post would have been premature and it would have been a wrong estimation of their experience and abilities.

But all in all it was a justifiable question to ask in those circumstances.

Clay Death
03-20-2009, 08:31 PM
The original post was very rightful to make at the time that it was made. Roger hadn't won a single title, and Rafa (as everybody seems to have forgotten and is mentioned very correctly) was blown away by Federer in Masters 07 and really ridiculed by Tsonga at AO. He, too, was titleless.

Now if, and only if, in that post the prediction was made that they were going to be hopeless the entire year, then yes the post would have been premature and it would have been a wrong estimation of their experience and abilities.

But all in all it was a justifiable question to ask in those circumstances.


affirmative. thanks for setting the record straight for the clueless termites (aka die hard Federereeeeeeeesians).

ORGASMATRON
03-20-2009, 08:35 PM
Roger and Rafa has dominated tennis now for who knows how long without cease. Dumb thread there is all there is to it.