Nadal: "I've thought on withdrawing from US Open" [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal: "I've thought on withdrawing from US Open"

amc
08-30-2007, 09:24 AM
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Nadal/He/pensado/retirarme/US/Open/elpepudep/20070830elpepudep_1/Tes

The translation in a few minutes, give me some time.

Rafael Nadal solved in a hard time the first round of US Open after defeating Australia of South African origin Alun Jones 7-5, 3-6, 6-4, 6-1. After the match, he's revelaed that the left knee injury suffered last Sunday made him consider to withdraw from the American tournament.

"Two days ago I considered to withdraw. But yesterday and today I already had decided to play because I was feeling better", has said the Balearic player who will play against against Serbian Janko Tipsarevic in the second round. "After suffering a sharp pain now I have a tendon more inflamated than the normal. That obliges me to force the other leg, the one that I injured in Wimbledon".

"The only way to heal it is resting but it's difficult to stop now. In a Grand Slam you have to play 100% and all of us like to be part of this type of meets. You can't do anything. It's an important tournament for everybody, but I'm calm because I did what I could". The number two of the World has explained that against Alun Jones "i've haven't felt pain because I've not looked for it either. I've tried to not force or stop abruptly". The Spanird hopes he gets better in the following days "I hope to improve to give more than today. From two days to now I've improved a lot. I have tomorrow and Friday (I play at night) to recover. Playing this way is not good. If you are 100% you get out".

bokehlicious
08-30-2007, 09:26 AM
It would be a wise decision... :worship:

Doggy
08-30-2007, 09:29 AM
ohhh no, his big ass will be gone and the field will be depleted of back-licious-ness. :sad: :angel: well, i guess andy's ass will do fine :worship:

scarecrows
08-30-2007, 09:33 AM
without Rafa US Open is not worth watching

what's to see if there's no comic like yesterday :shrug:

thesupreme
08-30-2007, 09:33 AM
ohhh no, his big ass will be gone and the field will be depleted of back-licious-ness. :sad: :angel: well, i guess andy's ass will do fine :worship:

I could see it in his face in the last match that the injury could warrant this...i dont wish this on him at all but he should know whats best to do...

Johnny Groove
08-30-2007, 09:40 AM
Fucking pull out, man. In fact. Nadal needs to take the rest of the year off and come back in Australia.

Action Jackson
08-30-2007, 09:42 AM
Withdraw, he can't gave his best efforts and is only cheating himself by playing.

amc
08-30-2007, 09:44 AM
I've translated it. A quick and quite rough translation, so I beg your pardon. I must say that I had a difficult time translating some of his statements. He should go to school.

Halba
08-30-2007, 09:44 AM
see you in Monte Carlo 2008 rafa. :wavey:

now its other players turn to turn up to hardcourts/indoor: Andy Murray, gasquet time to step up!

Johnny Groove
08-30-2007, 09:44 AM
The kid is only 21. :rolleyes:

I have to admire his fighting spirit, but a line has to be drawn between fighter and stupidity.

jaybee
08-30-2007, 09:50 AM
better to withdraw than injure himself seriously. besides, fed will win the US Open 07.

scarecrows
08-30-2007, 09:50 AM
no withdraw Rafa

Vamos...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a38/diable16/526355886_l.jpg

Castafiore
08-30-2007, 09:51 AM
Thank you, amc.

"The only way to heal it is resting but it's difficult to stop now."

I can imagine that it's difficult to stop during one of the most important events of the year but the choice looks quite clear to me if the only way to heal is to rest. How much rest is that knee going to get during grand slam matches?

Play = injury sustains
Rest = healing procedure.
--> I mean, judging from a distance, the solution seems clear to me. What am I missing, Rafa?

*snowflake*
08-30-2007, 09:52 AM
I doubt he'll withdraw, he's too thickheaded for that. I don't get why tio Toni or someone from his camp doesn't put the foot down and say enough.
He said that he's getting some laser treatment so hopefully that helps a bit. And after this he needs to drag his famous ass back to Mallorca and stay there until those knees heal.

Blue Heart24
08-30-2007, 09:54 AM
I've translated it. A quick and quite rough translation, so I beg your pardon. I must say that I had a difficult time translating some of his statements. He should go to school.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Blue Heart24
08-30-2007, 09:56 AM
Just keep playing Rafa,it seems you are one of those who want to learn on a hard way.:D

dorkino
08-30-2007, 10:05 AM
It was so obvious something wrong was going on yesterday. It's fair enough to say that not every bad shot of Rafa's performance was depending on the injury but it was even so obvious on uncle Toni's face. There was no focus on the match itself. It looked like they're just taking their chances out there seeing where things 'll eventually go.

For GOD's sake Rafa and team, i hope they'll be able to take the right decision about it. It's meaningless to go tear and torture one's self out and regret it for a long time after doing so.

Agree with posters saying we hope to see Rafael playing and winning for long,but Rafa who's a wise and fit fighter, not the struggling and tortured one.

Halba
08-30-2007, 10:12 AM
rafa's been struggling with injury the whole year apart from the french open itself and monte carlo(dizziness during clay season remember?), and injuries the whole year esp in australian open, stuttgart, wimbledon, montreal(struggled against djoko) and cinci. the guy learns to play injured half the time.

style of game is too much wear and tear, just look at hewitt who has now changed to all court/attacking game.

RonE
08-30-2007, 10:29 AM
If he is genuinely injured which seems to be the case then to keep going particularly through 7 best of five matches on hardcourt of all surfaces which punishes the joints and limbs- not a very wise decision in the long run.

OTOH, only he knows how he feels so if he did manage to get out on court apparently its not as bad as was previously thought. Although to his own detriment he can be rather pig-headed at times if you'll pardon the intended pun.

Or Levy
08-30-2007, 10:31 AM
I feel bad for him. This isn't how someone wants to exit the last GS of the year, and his last chance of the number 1 spot.

He probably wants to protect his results from last, but that looks impossible to me, and he's definitly not getting past Nole

martine2
08-30-2007, 10:43 AM
He should retire if he's not 100%, certainly because US OPen is hardcourt.
If he goes on and the injury gets worse he might have much bigger problems afterwards...

spriwi
08-30-2007, 11:09 AM
this is not a wise decision... it may be just the beginning of a wonderful career but these injuries can wipe all of dreams away.
it's not like playing till the last ball of the final like at wimby, it s about 4-6 more best-of-five matches to come... and i dont think he will get far playing like this, so this is risk that can give him just about 250 pts (QF). is it worth it??? nope

toni, try to convince rafa to pull out:angel:

jrm
08-30-2007, 12:45 PM
Mouthwatering prospect - hope it comes true

Burrow
08-30-2007, 01:41 PM
Who is Uncle Toni? Ivan Navarro Pastor in disguise??

Sunset of Age
08-30-2007, 03:15 PM
I feel bad for him. This isn't how someone wants to exit the last GS of the year, and his last chance of the number 1 spot.


I have this strange feeling that it's due to that very wish of his, to get that #1 spot whatever it takes (at least so it looks to me), that is getting him into trouble. He's been whoring himself for points (Stuttgart, Hamburg), playing a lot more than his body AND his playing style permit - I so hope that these ongoing injuries won't be the toll he'll have to pay for his brave but foolish quest.

In all: not that #1 position is the most important in the world, Raf. It's your bloody health! :hug:

guga2120
08-30-2007, 03:22 PM
He should just pull out, it has to be hard though when he sees the draw, b/c he if he was 100% he would be in the SF, but as it is now he barely gets through qualifiers. I doubt he gets through his next match, if he plays it at all.

Burrow
08-30-2007, 03:25 PM
Pull out you douchebag and let Henman get to the 4th round! Go TIMMY, TIMMY FOR THE US OPEN.

The_Nadal_effect
08-30-2007, 03:45 PM
I have this strange feeling that it's due to that very wish of his, to get that #1 spot whatever it takes (at least so it looks to me), that is getting him into trouble. He's been whoring himself for points (Stuttgart, Hamburg), playing a lot more than his body AND his playing style permit - I so hope that these ongoing injuries won't be the toll he'll have to pay for his brave but foolish quest.

In all: not that #1 position is the most important in the world, Raf. It's your bloody health! :hug:

Well said. But something tells me he's going to stick it out.

Xristos
08-30-2007, 03:56 PM
Please dont Rafa.

Fucking pull out, man. In fact. Nadal needs to take the rest of the year off and come back in Australia.

Why man? What about Mardid and the Masters Cup?

RagingLamb
08-30-2007, 04:00 PM
that's really too bad.

Burrow
08-30-2007, 04:01 PM
Please dont Rafa.



Why man? What about Mardid and the Masters Cup?

Oh man, man oh man oh man.

Lee
08-30-2007, 04:03 PM
Last night during Federer's match, the commentators said that Nadal's families would come to NYC over the weekend and Nadal wanted to stay in the tournament for them. :shrug:

RagingLamb
08-30-2007, 04:09 PM
Last night during Federer's match, the commentators said that Nadal's families would come to NYC over the weekend and Nadal wanted to stay in the tournament for them. :shrug:

so I guess we should expect an easy exit after that...

Merton
08-30-2007, 04:16 PM
Withdraw and rest Rafa, it was pretty stupid to play yesterday, to begin with.

Adler
08-30-2007, 04:18 PM
He knows bet, but from what I saw in the match against Jones I think he should really withdraw, because it may end even worse. Come on Rafa, you won't win it playing on such level

Burrow
08-30-2007, 04:19 PM
He won't win the tournament anyway, even if he was fully fit :haha:

Adler
08-30-2007, 04:25 PM
He won't win the tournament anyway, even if he was fully fit :haha:
It would depend on Hewitt's form, Djokovic's stamina and Federer's head

Burrow
08-30-2007, 04:26 PM
Don't be stupid, he doesn't stand a chance, even Hewitt might have even beaten him.

twisturhead
08-30-2007, 04:26 PM
this is why nadal's career while be injury happy. he likes playing too much

Adler
08-30-2007, 04:40 PM
Don't be stupid, he doesn't stand a chance, even Hewitt might have even beaten him.
Last year before Wimby everyone thought it's a disgrace he even appeared on english grass and look what happened. The length of Nadal's US Open road depends on certain things : injuries, draw (more than in case of any other player) and those three guys I mentioned.

mangoes
08-30-2007, 04:41 PM
I'm not going to feel sorry for Nadal if his injury worsens. It doesn't make sense to me that he would continue to play if his injury is bad and could get worse. So, I'm assuming it's not so bad. His camp has to know that one more week of play could cost him weeks after the Open.

I'll see Nadal in the final:wavey: Once again, he is handing R=FK another opportunity to sing his Spartan anthem.

nikita13
08-30-2007, 05:15 PM
When you hear of players withdrawing who are obviously not in as much pain as Rafa, he is really :cuckoo: not to withdraw. If he takes a week off now, any tendinitis would heal and not end up worse.

Johnny Groove
08-30-2007, 07:54 PM
If he is genuinely injured which seems to be the case then to keep going particularly through 7 best of five matches on hardcourt of all surfaces which punishes the joints and limbs- not a very wise decision in the long run.

OTOH, only he knows how he feels so if he did manage to get out on court apparently its not as bad as was previously thought. Although to his own detriment he can be rather pig-headed at times if you'll pardon the intended pun.

Yes, he is pig headed sometimes. The medical trainer put his foot down in Cincy, because Nadal wanted to keep playing Monaco :rolleyes:

Please dont Rafa.



Why man? What about Mardid and the Masters Cup?

So what? He needs to rest himself for a long time and not try to come back soon. Fuck Madrid and Fuck TMC. His health is what is more important

Burrow
08-30-2007, 07:58 PM
Last year before Wimby everyone thought it's a disgrace he even appeared on english grass and look what happened. The length of Nadal's US Open road depends on certain things : injuries, draw (more than in case of any other player) and those three guys I mentioned.

We are talking hard court here, I think Novak Djokovic has proved that he can take Nadal on a hardcourt, I can't see Nadal beating him anytime soon on it, Djokovic has improved alot since the start of the year. Federer is a 3 time US Open champion and recently came off of Cincinatti winning the tournament. He should be feeling confident after his first two wins here at the US Open, Nadal will not take out Federer at the US Open in his career, it just will not happen.

mangoes
08-30-2007, 08:08 PM
Nadal was out practicing today so he is obviously not badly injured. I'd love to go through one tournament without these dramatics from Nadal...

sykotique
08-30-2007, 08:13 PM
Nadal must be playing for love of the game, because he can't possibly think he has a chance of winning if he isn't fully fit. To even try to make a run at the #1 spot in his condition makes no sense. It would be better to withdraw at this point, it's not as if he's defending a bucket load of points, and if/when he's feeling better, there are still 2 Masters Series tournaments left, a couple optionals where he can improve and the Masters Cup, plus Australia.

If he injures himself now, he'll never make it. He needs to think about that. "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."

fmolinari2005
08-30-2007, 08:16 PM
Nadal was out practicing today so he is obviously not badly injured. I'd love to go through one tournament without these dramatics from Nadal...

I totally agree. I cant remember the last time, during a tournament, that Rafa didnt complaing about an injury/ pain/ tiredness.

*** sorry, if Nadal's injury is indeed serious, I dont mean to make fun of it. But if it is serious, I would call Tony Nadal a greedy moron, for allowing his nephew to play like that *****

Clara Bow
08-30-2007, 08:26 PM
Nadal was out practicing today so he is obviously not badly injured. I'd love to go through one tournament without these dramatics from Nadal...

I am sure that the MRI, not practicing on Tuesday and laser treatments are all for dramas sake. ;)

Tracey Austin remarked that he looked like he was just out there trying to get a feel for the ball and was not going all out like he normally does. And he was just out there for an hour- unlike his normal 2-4 hour practices. The footage that they showed looked like it was a light hit.

I don't think he is making stuff up for drama's sake- but you are free to have an alternate opinion.

I do agree that Rafa does have injuries a lot during tournaments - and as a fan, it can be taxing- but I don't think he is creating this just for drama.

oz_boz
08-30-2007, 08:27 PM
Jones should be cannon fodder for a fit Nadal even on a Minsk ice rink. Maybe Rafa is right, though I say give it one more match.

RonE, that's one hell of a thread you have in your sig. I will put it up too.

l_mac
08-30-2007, 08:30 PM
*** sorry, if Nadal's injury is indeed serious, I dont mean to make fun of it. But if it is serious, I would call Tony Nadal a greedy moron, for allowing his nephew to play like that *****


Why is Uncle Toni greedy? If he is playing injured and risking further injury, then all involved are morons for sure :)

Beforehand
08-30-2007, 08:36 PM
1. Withdraw from USO.
2. Clear 2007 optionals you were thinking about playing.
3. See how you are before Madrid.

mangoes
08-30-2007, 08:43 PM
I am sure that the MRI, not practicing on Tuesday and laser treatments are all for dramas sake. ;)

Tracey Austin remarked that he looked like he was just out there trying to get a feel for the ball and was not going all out like he normally does. And he was just out there for an hour- unlike his normal 2-4 hour practices. The footage that they showed looked like it was a light hit.

I don't think he is making stuff up for drama's sake- but you are free to have an alternate opinion.

I do agree that Rafa does have injuries a lot during tournaments- but I don't think he is creating this just for drama. And he did not use his knee issue at Wimbles as an excuse or anything.


Read my earlier posts about this Clara-Bow in this thread. Practically every tournament, this song and dance is done. I am not accusing him of using his injuries as an excuse for anything. I am saying that we go through this "drama" every single tournament. Heck, as you just pointed out, we just went through this in Wimbledon, Toronto there were questions about his knees, Cincy there were questions about his arm. Every single tournament!!!

Maybe he should stop feeding the media all this info and give info only when something is definite because by him giving the media all this info, he is fueling these constant "I'm Injured/Sparatan fight" stories.

adee-gee
08-30-2007, 08:43 PM
"If Nadal pulls out of the US Open, I pay everyone who has posted in this thread $10" :)

He won't pull out, I can almost guarantee it. It was hard enough for him pulling out a match in Cincy, he won't withdraw from a slam unless he's told he can do long term damage, which I don't think is the case. He might be playing with some discomfort but I don't think it's bad enough for him to withdraw, he'll play on and probably lose in the 3rd or 4th round.

Clara Bow
08-30-2007, 08:49 PM
Maybe he should stop feeding the media all this info and give info only when something is definite because by him giving the media all this info, he is fueling these constant "I'm Injured/Sparatan fight" stories.

But in this tournament there is something definite. :) Johnny Mac was saying stuff about the knee on Tuesday before it was fed by his camp at all. And at the Oz Open he withheld info for a while even though there were stories of him limping around in the locker room- and those stories were not manufactured by his camp. Those stories were given by folks who observed him. At Wimbledon- he got his knee attended to during the match- how is answering questions about that feeding info without something definite?

If he is injured- he is injured- and I don't see how that is fueling stuff if he is asked about it and responds. The media wanted to know about what was going on with his knee and he responded. Full stop. Should he not give them information?

I agree that not every ache and pain needs to be public- but here at the USO- there does appear to be a definite injury- and I just don't see how him giving out information when it is requested that he give out information is him trying to fuel some Spartan story bs.

If a number of other high profile players were in the same boat with needed MRIs and treatment during a GS- I think it would also be a story.

Castafiore
08-30-2007, 08:50 PM
Maybe he should stop feeding the media all this info and give info only when something is definite because by him giving the media all this info, he is fueling these constant "I'm Injured/Sparatan fight" stories.
It's not as if he's starting every interview by talking about all possible injuries he's having before the first question is asked. Reporters ask him about it or they report on his training sessions wondering about his injury.

His knee is taped in as a safety precaution since Wimbledon, so naturally the reporters notice it and ask about it. So, are you surprsised that we've heard about it in Stuttgart, Montréal, Cincy and here?
I don't know how you can avoid speculation over an injury if you have to wear very visible bandages.


PS about the ""I'm Injured/Sparatan fight" stories: that Spartan stuff is something that's fabricated here on MTF so I have no idea why you feel like connecting it with Nadal's camp.

bokehlicious
08-30-2007, 08:56 PM
:inlove: This Rafa is a true warrior, he's almost in a wheelchair but still fighting like a dog, you gotta love the spirit of the guy !

:rolleyes: :o

dorkino
08-30-2007, 08:58 PM
Posted by Adeegee
"If Nadal pulls out of the US Open, I pay everyone who has posted in this thread $10" :)

He won't pull out, I can almost guarantee it. It was hard enough for him pulling out a match in Cincy, he won't withdraw from a slam unless he's told he can do long term damage, which I don't think is the case. He might be playing with some discomfort but I don't think it's bad enough for him to withdraw, he'll play on and probably lose in the 3rd or 4th round.

It's so much like him this attitude u've just mentioned. But one can't prevent thinking, with that kind of performance how far is he really expecting to go?? and what's worse, how bad this injury 'll go by stressing it so much.
Hope he stops that hero thing attitude before it goes way beyond limits not to mention it hurts watching that kind of performance coming from him in this event.

mangoes
08-30-2007, 09:01 PM
But in this tournament there is something definite. :) Johnny Mac was saying stuff about the knee on Tuesday before it was fed by his camp at all. And at the Oz Open he withheld info for a while even though there were stories of him limping around in the locker room- and those stories were not manufactured by his camp. At Wimbledon- he got his knee attended to during the match- how is answering questions about that feeding info without something definite?

If he is injured- he is injured- and I don't see how that is fueling stuff if he is asked about it and responds. The media wanted to know about what was going on with his knee and he responded. Full stop. Should he not give them information?

This has been floating around MFT:

How many times will Nadal cry "wolf"?

August 30, 2007, 3:02 pm
Nadal Practices
By Ray Krueger

Rafael Nadal practiced for slightly over an hour.
At the end of the session, he showed no ill effects of the knee tendinitis that bothered him in his first round victory over Alun Jones. He appeared to be going at full speed as he hit his final serves, grunting in characteristic fashion.
Both of his knees were taped, and he also had his left hamstring/quad wrapped.
Fans pressed against the fence in hopes of getting a good look at Nadal, who was two courts down from the crowd outside the player entrance. One woman screamed for him to take flowers from her, but his concentration never wavered.


Anyway, back to the post:

Obviously it doesn't bother you that Nadal is constantly surrounded by an injury drama during tournaments. But, I, personally, am tired of it. Too many tournaments get hijacked by media speculations over Nadal being injured. I don't wish any injury on Nadal, but I'm tired of there constantly being an injury drama surrounding Nadal at tournaments. I'm not saying to not answer the media's questions. But, he could be more conservative in how much he tells the media. I don't know if he uses these injury scares to pump himself up:shrug: But, it sure feeds the media's articles of "Nadal the great fighter in tennis".

l_mac
08-30-2007, 09:06 PM
Obviously it doesn't bother you that Nadal is constantly surrounded by an injury drama during tournaments. But, I, personally, am tired of it. Too many tournaments get hijacked by media speculations over Nadal being injured. I don't wish any injury on Nadal, but I'm tired of there constantly being an injury drama surrounding Nadal at tournaments. I'm not saying to not answer the media's questions. But, he could be more conservative in how much he tells the media. I don't know if he uses these injury scares to pump himself up:shrug: But, it sure feeds the media's articles of "Nadal the great fighter in tennis".


So you don't like it because Rafa's injuries give him an unfair amount of press attention?

:haha:

Castafiore
08-30-2007, 09:09 PM
Mangoes, see this quote in that little article posted by shaklebolt:

"Rafael Nadal practiced for slightly over an hour. "
--> that's much shorter than his usual training sessions during slams so he's still being very careful here.

Only he and his medical advisors know how serious it is. I love how people on MTF can form an opinion on a medical situation (like playing despited physical worries or withdrawing due to physical problems) as if they have inside information.

I don't know if he uses these injury scares to pump himself up
You're kidding, right?

mangoes
08-30-2007, 09:10 PM
So you don't like it because Rafa's injuries give him an unfair amount of press attention?

:haha:

:confused: What? Stop trying to be funny - It's not working:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

l_mac
08-30-2007, 09:10 PM
I believe they also showed a little bit of his practise on US TV and talked about how he was taking it easy :)

l_mac
08-30-2007, 09:12 PM
:confused: What? Stop trying to be funny - It's not working:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to be funny - it's what you said.

Too many tournaments get hijacked by media speculations over Nadal being injured.

fmolinari2005
08-30-2007, 09:14 PM
Why is Uncle Toni greedy? If he is playing injured and risking further injury, then all involved are morons for sure :)

You are right. But I still think that IF Rafa is seriously injured (he says he isnt), his coach (and Uncle) would'd to put his foot down and say "look, you are not playing". There is a reason players have coach: to bring perspective to their players. And, from an old Rafa's interview, it was clear that Nadal respects a lot his uncle/coach.

But I like to think that Rafa's staff is serious . So, they wouldnt allow him to play seriously injured. Therefore, the injury might not be as bad as people are saying (again, Rafa says it isnt that bad ... but at same time he says he couldnt move, I dont know, I dont understand Rafa).

So, I see two options: one- the injury isnt that serious, and Rafa just played a poor match. Second: the injury is serious, and his staff isnt able to handle a professional tennis player career. And if the injury gets worse, odds are that his staff (physicians included) misread how serious the situation was: maybe because nobody could foresee it (it happens in medicine, I can tell you), maybe because they were incompetent.

mangoes
08-30-2007, 09:15 PM
I'm not trying to be funny - it's what you said.

I don't know how on earth you managed to draw a reference between your statement and mine. But, if it floats your boat, go ahead. I don't want to get into a petty rafatard/fedtard bickering match this afternoon......

cmurray
08-30-2007, 09:16 PM
Nadal was out practicing today so he is obviously not badly injured. I'd love to go through one tournament without these dramatics from Nadal...

I'm fairly certain Nadal would love it too.

I hardly think its fair to blame Nadal because people like RFK blather on about him being a Spartan. To my knowledge, he never claimed he was "badly injured". What he said was that his knee felt better yesterday than it had the day before and that he was trying to avoid rough starts and stops during the match yesterday (which explains his poor play/lack of positioning).

adee-gee
08-30-2007, 09:16 PM
It's so much like him this attitude u've just mentioned. But one can't prevent thinking, with that kind of performance how far is he really expecting to go?? and what's worse, how bad this injury 'll go by stressing it so much.
Hope he stops that hero thing attitude before it goes way beyond limits not to mention it hurts watching that kind of performance coming from him in this event.
He's got an enormous amount of self belief, I'm pretty sure he doesn't feel he's going to play as badly as he did the other day against Jones when he steps onto court.

I'm not sure, I'm just not going to jump on the "he should pull out bandwagon". If he goes out there, it suggests to me he feels he's capable of winning and that's good enough for me.

l_mac
08-30-2007, 09:19 PM
I don't know how on earth you managed to draw a reference between your statement and mine. But, if it floats your boat, go ahead. I don't want to get into a petty rafatard/fedtard bickering match this afternoon......
For what it's worth I don't think of myself as a rafatard, or you as a fedtard, but I feel I drew a logical conclusion with regard to your comments.

abol_tabol
08-30-2007, 09:24 PM
It's not as if he's starting every interview by talking about all possible injuries he's having before the first question is asked. Reporters ask him about it or they report on his training sessions wondering about his injury.

His knee is taped in as a safety precaution since Wimbledon, so naturally the reporters notice it and ask about it. So, are you surprsised that we've heard about it in Stuttgart, Montrťal, Cincy and here?
I don't know how you can avoid speculation over an injury if you have to wear very visible bandages.


PS about the ""I'm Injured/Sparatan fight" stories: that Spartan stuff is something that's fabricated here on MTF so I have no idea why you feel like connecting it with Nadal's camp.

If a player is injured and not 100% he should either withdraw or never ever talks about it or admits it at all if he decides to continue to play with the injury. This should be the proper and the right way. Otherwise it is incredibly disrespectful to your opponent you just defeated even playing with your injury and very unsporting for the opponent you will meet next.

In the press conference when Nadal is being asked about his injury and physical conditions he can easily brush it aside by saying it is nothing serious, don't worry about it, next question please. Not very difficult, right?

I'm very unhappy and angry with the way Nadal and his team are handling his injury situation. It is very tactless, offensive, disrespectful and unsporting.

cmurray
08-30-2007, 09:27 PM
This has been floating around MFT:




Anyway, back to the post:

Obviously it doesn't bother you that Nadal is constantly surrounded by an injury drama during tournaments. But, I, personally, am tired of it. Too many tournaments get hijacked by media speculations over Nadal being injured. I don't wish any injury on Nadal, but I'm tired of there constantly being an injury drama surrounding Nadal at tournaments. I'm not saying to not answer the media's questions. But, he could be more conservative in how much he tells the media. I don't know if he uses these injury scares to pump himself up:shrug: But, it sure feeds the media's articles of "Nadal the great fighter in tennis".

I'm not sure you're being fair, Sheryl. He was hurt in Oz, but never mentioned it at ALL until he could barely move against Gonzo in the quarters. Hardly taking over a tournament, I'd say. There was no talk of injury at IW or Miami - a little talk of dizziness once during the clay season, but you can hardly accuse him of hijacking attention for his injuries on the clay courts. He tweaked his knee in the final of Wimby against Roger, but I never once heard him complain about it. He stole Roger's thunder there due to the frequency with which he won 5 set matches, not because he had to get his knee taped.

He had tape on his knee for Montreal, but never mentioned the injury himself - it was simply talked about by commentators. He pulled out of Cincy, yes. But even he said it was to do with the heat and not an injury drama. I'm failing to see "constantly" here.

NYCtennisfan
08-30-2007, 09:27 PM
If a player is injured and not 100% he should either withdraw or never ever talks about it or admits it at all if he decides to continue to play with the injury. This should be the proper and the right way. Otherwise it is incredibly disrespectful to your opponent you just defeated even playing with your injury and very unsporting for the opponent you will meet next.

In the press conference when Nadal is being asked about his injury and physical conditions he can easily brush it aside by saying it is nothing serious, don't worry about it, next question please. Not very difficult, right?

I'm very unhappy and angry with the way Nadal and his team are handling his injury situation. It is very tactless, offensive, disrespectful and unsporting.

Your last sentence is a bit strong, but the rest of it is very well said. If he feels he can go out there and win, the injury cannot be that bad because it is IMPOSSIBLE to win on tour with a bad knee unless you're someone who can throw down 50 aces and not have to move at all and got some luck. For a guy who wins in large part because of his movement, a serious knee injury makes it impossible to win at the tour level.

dorkino
08-30-2007, 09:27 PM
originally posted by Adeegee
He's got an enormous amount of self belief, I'm pretty sure he doesn't feel he's going to play as badly as he did the other day against Jones when he steps onto court.

I'm not sure, I'm just not going to jump on the "he should pull out bandwagon". If he goes out there, it suggests to me he feels he's capable of winning and that's good enough for me.

Let's hope he knows what he's doing and sees when to take the right desicion whatever it'll be.

Castafiore
08-30-2007, 09:27 PM
In the press conference when Nadal is being asked about his injury and physical conditions he can easily brush it aside by saying it is nothing serious, don't worry about it, next question please. Not very difficult, right?
He often does do that, though.

mangoes
08-30-2007, 09:28 PM
I'm fairly certain Nadal would love it too.

I hardly think its fair to blame Nadal because people like RFK blather on about him being a Spartan. To my knowledge, he never claimed he was "badly injured". What he said was that his knee felt better yesterday than it had the day before and that he was trying to avoid rough starts and stops during the match yesterday (which explains his poor play/lack of positioning).

And I felt terrible for him yesterday..........but it doesn't take away from the fact that we've all had these chats several times this year. Anyway, I have to go home. I'll be back later to make trouble with you and Clara Bow:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


For what it's worth I don't think of myself as a rafatard, or you as a fedtard, but I feel I drew a logical conclusion with regard to your comments.

I think most people in this thread would call me a fedtard including myself:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I haven't had much interaction with you to call you a rafatard AS YET!!!

rofe
08-30-2007, 09:30 PM
If a player is injured and not 100% he should either withdraw or never ever talks about it or admits it at all if he decides to continue to play with the injury. This should be the proper and the right way. Otherwise it is incredibly disrespectful to your opponent you just defeated even playing with your injury and very unsporting for the opponent you will meet next.

In the press conference when Nadal is being asked about his injury and physical conditions he can easily brush it aside by saying it is nothing serious, don't worry about it, next question please. Not very difficult, right?

I'm very unhappy and angry with the way Nadal and his team are handling his injury situation. It is very tactless, offensive, disrespectful and unsporting.

There is no doubt in my mind that the injury is real so I am still giving Nadal the benefit of doubt. The extent of the injury and how the Nadal team has communicated that to the media is what I am not sure about. Come tomorrow if I find that his movement is fine then I will agree completely with you.

cmurray
08-30-2007, 09:32 PM
And I felt terrible for him yesterday..........but it doesn't take away from the fact that we've all had these chats several times this year. Anyway, I have to go home. I'll be back later to make trouble with you and Clara Bow:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




I think most people in this thread would call me a fedtard including myself:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I haven't had much interaction with you to call you a rafatard AS YET!!!

Bye love. :wavey: Travel safely. ;)

abol_tabol
08-30-2007, 09:38 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that the injury is real so I am still giving Nadal the benefit of doubt. The extent of the injury and how the Nadal team has communicated that to the media is what I am not sure about. Come tomorrow if I find that his movement is fine then I will agree completely with you.

No, no, I think you missed my point. I'm not arguing whether the injury is fake or real. What I'm just saying if you decide to play with an injury then please do not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw. You need to be respectful to other players also.

sawan66278
08-30-2007, 09:39 PM
Maybe I am just hopeful, but I want Rafa to try to continue....Why? You never know...perhaps he can plug on, and, through will and adrenaline, he can make a deep run...the draw is there...and so is the #1 ranking. I know...people feel he should recover, and not worry about #1...But for him, to take the #1 ranking while Roger is playing as he is, would place him as one of the all time greats...

Just think: if there were no Roger, he would be #1 by a HUGE margain. As a matter of fact, his ranking as #2 is higher than year end #1's like Guga, Roddick, Hewitt, Pete and Andre (at particular times). Everyone wants to be #1 at some point. Look at Mats Wilander: his goal was #1...and he got...and than faded out. But it was his ultimate dream, so why not chase it...and achieve it...and then go from there?

Rafa, I feel, would, once he reached the #1 spot...slow down a little...and make pushes for slams like Wimbledon...

On a side note, here's some quotes from Jim Courier and Tim Henman about Rafa's injuries (source espn.com):

The way he plays makes him susceptible to injury because he carries a lot of weight," said commentator Jim Courier. "The hard courts are unforgiving. I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I wouldn't expect him to go through his career injury-free, especially in direct comparison to Federer, who is more like a ballet dancer because he's very light and effortless and graceful on the court."

Courier said the elevated speed and power of the modern game increases the literal shock to an athlete's system. He played more than 700 matches in his career and continues to compete on his own Outback Champions Series senior circuit, but said his knees are "great," and knocked on the nearest lucky object -- his own head -- to keep that luck going.

"Time will tell and genetics play a large part in this as well," he said. "To my untrained, non-medical eye, my experience has taught me that the heavier guys, a guy like [Boris] Becker for example, had knee problems. He was certainly built more like Rafa, not even as close to as ripped as Rafa, but carried a lot of weight on the court. Stopping is more problematic for guys when you have more momentum."

Great Britain's Tim Henman, who's leaving the game at age 32 partly because of back problems, said Nadal's challenge won't be trying to avoid repetitive stress injuries -- it'll be managing them.

"I just think it's the nature of the beast," Henman said Wednesday. "When you're built like that, you play like that, when you're playing on hard courts, I think it's almost inevitable.

"I think I'm fortunate that my sort of body type and my game is relatively stress-free. Nadal is a different story. His game is physically so demanding. He's putting so much strain on his body. He had stress fractures in his foot, didn't he? He's got obviously tendinitis in the knees, which I think a lot of guys are suffering with. You've got to manage it as best you can.

"You know that that's always going to be -- that will always play a part in his career."

rofe
08-30-2007, 09:40 PM
No, no, I think you missed my point. I'm not arguing whether the injury is fake or real. What I'm just saying if you decide to play with an injury then please do not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw. You need to be respectful to other players also.

In that case, we are in agreement.

cmurray
08-30-2007, 09:43 PM
No, no, I think you missed my point. I'm not arguing whether the injury is fake or real. What I'm just saying if you decide to play with an injury then please do not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw. You need to be respectful to other players also.

Generally, I agree with you. But its hard to say "its nothing" when its obviously affecting his play and when he has the trainer come out twice during the match. I thought Nadal did a pretty good job saying that his knee was starting to feel better and that he was hoping to put in a good performance on Friday. Perhaps he could have left off the "I would have withdrawn if it weren't the US Open", but the fact of the matter is that its probably the dead truth.

abol_tabol
08-30-2007, 09:49 PM
Your last sentence is a bit strong, but the rest of it is very well said. If he feels he can go out there and win, the injury cannot be that bad because it is IMPOSSIBLE to win on tour with a bad knee unless you're someone who can throw down 50 aces and not have to move at all and got some luck. For a guy who wins in large part because of his movement, a serious knee injury makes it impossible to win at the tour level.

Thanks for your nice reply!

I'm sorry to hear that you found my last sentence a little strong. I thought about it again and I'm going to stick by it. I really think they are handling the situation very improperly.

By the way, I've been lurking here for a long time and I've always enjoyed your posts, very informative and level-headed!

ExpectedWinner
08-30-2007, 10:12 PM
What I'm just saying if you decide to play with an injury then please do not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw. You need to be respectful to other players also.

:yeah:

Clara Bow
08-30-2007, 10:33 PM
Generally, I agree with you. But its hard to say "its nothing" when its obviously affecting his play and when he has the trainer come out twice during the match. I thought Nadal did a pretty good job saying that his knee was starting to feel better and that he was hoping to put in a good performance on Friday. Perhaps he could have left off the "I would have withdrawn if it weren't the US Open", but the fact of the matter is that its probably the dead truth.

I agree. He was being honest in his replies. I guess I don't mind it if players are honest. He was asked about the extent of his injury and replied. I guess he could have lied or with held information- but I do not see him failing to withhold information as an example of a lack of moral character.

The trainer came out twice- as you said- it was obvious that something was not right. To say- nah- it was nothing would not be true. And he is asked about it- and he answers. I would feel the same if this were any player.

And he said that it was feeling better on Wedneday and that it was not a "big" injury. He has never acted like he should be playing in a wheelchair or anything. And he brought it up after prompting.

I tend to like disclosure on injuries, be it in individual sports or team sports. If a skater has ankle issues and are asked about it, I like to know, if a basketball player has had some shoulder issues- I want to know what is going on. Swimming fans knew tons of details about Lenny Krazylberg’s shoulder at the last two Olympics- and I did not look down on him or feel that he was being disrespectful to the other swimmers because of that. Heck- I was happy to know all the details when the Florida Gator basketball team was hit with a virus- and was anxious to hear about the condition of the player affected. A lot of sports are forthcoming in regards to information about injuries- and I don’t see what is wrong with tennis not being an exception. YMMV- but that is my view on this.

I can understand if some players don't want to disclose because it may give confidence to their oppoent (be it individual or a team sport) but at the same time- I do not mind at all if a sports figure answers questions honestly.

I'll be back later to make trouble with you and Clara Bow

But we play nice, don't we? :D

DhammaTiger
08-30-2007, 10:37 PM
Rafa :hug: x 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000
but please withdraw and rest.

musefanatic
08-30-2007, 10:41 PM
Generally, I agree with you. But its hard to say "its nothing" when its obviously affecting his play and when he has the trainer come out twice during the match. I thought Nadal did a pretty good job saying that his knee was starting to feel better and that he was hoping to put in a good performance on Friday. Perhaps he could have left off the "I would have withdrawn if it weren't the US Open", but the fact of the matter is that its probably the dead truth.

I agree, i respect Rafa for telling the truth about his injury, though i also do believe he should try and play it down a bit, it's gonna be easier for his opponents to attack him now. He may probably be one of those players who will be plagues with injuries throughout his career from now on, and then there are players like Federer who have none. He certainly needs a rest after this though, a very long rest just to recupperate, he could not play anything until the masters cup if he felt like it, he doesn't need to.

cmurray
08-30-2007, 11:14 PM
I agree. He was being honest in his replies. I guess I don't mind it if players are honest. He was asked about the extent of his injury and replied. I guess he could have lied or with held information- but I do not see him failing to withhold information as an example of a lack of moral character.

The trainer came out twice- as you said- it was obvious that something was not right. To say- nah- it was nothing would not be true. And he is asked about it- and he answers. I would feel the same if this were any player.

And he said that it was feeling better on Wedneday and that it was not a "big" injury. He has never acted like he should be playing in a wheelchair or anything. And he brought it up after prompting.

I tend to like disclosure on injuries, be it in individual sports or team sports. If a skater has ankle issues and are asked about it, I like to know, if a basketball player has had some shoulder issues- I want to know what is going on. Swimming fans knew tons of details about Lenny Krazylbergís shoulder at the last two Olympics- and I did not look down on him or feel that he was being disrespectful to the other swimmers because of that. Heck- I was happy to know all the details when the Florida Gator basketball team was hit with a virus- and was anxious to hear about the condition of the player affected. A lot of sports are forthcoming in regards to information about injuries- and I donít see what is wrong with tennis not being an exception. YMMV- but that is my view on this.

I can understand if some players don't want to disclose because it may give confidence to their oppoent (be it individual or a team sport) but at the same time- I do not mind at all if a sports figure answers questions honestly.



But we play nice, don't we? :D


How did I get to be Expected Winner?:scratch: ;)

I agree - if Rafa had said "Oh...its nothing" people would have accused him of gamesmanship. Also, it would be lying. I honestly don't feel like he made a very big deal out of it at all. The MEDIA did, but that is not Rafa's fault. He made a few statements about it AND he said it was starting to feel better. The fact of the matter is that we as tennis fans are used to seeing Nadal play crisp matches. And when he has a day that's as dismal as the one he had yesterday, people are going to notice, and they're going to want to know why.

Clara Bow
08-30-2007, 11:18 PM
How did I get to be Expected Winner?:scratch: ;)

I agree - if Rafa had said "Oh...its nothing" people would have accused him of gamesmanship. Also, it would be lying. I honestly don't feel like he made a very big deal out of it at all. The MEDIA did, but that is not Rafa's fault. He made a few statements about it AND he said it was starting to feel better. The fact of the matter is that we as tennis fans are used to seeing Nadal play crisp matches. And when he has a day that's as dismal as the one he had yesterday, people are going to notice, and they're going to want to know why.

The name has been corrected. :lol:

I agree with you- he is just responding to requests for information- that is all.

cmurray
08-30-2007, 11:33 PM
The name has been corrected. :lol:

I agree with you- he is just responding to requests for information- that is all.

First I was a winner, and now I'm lovely? You do wonders for my ego, Clara Bow. :kiss:

Pimmchanok
08-30-2007, 11:43 PM
He sounds like he's in complete denial about the extensiviness of he injuries in his interview on the Open website
I hope he does reconsider withdrawing, you never know, it could get worse depending what he does on the court

FiBeR
08-31-2007, 03:11 AM
he retired against monaco..a couple of weeks ago..:shrug: i think he is gonna play and pull out in the third.. if he is 1-1 in sets..

his only chance is a straight sets win..but if he loses a set.. i think he is gonna pull this out

i think it will end sth like 63 57 23* and he will retire :shrug: .. i hope he doesnt even make the court .. :sad:

doublebackhand
08-31-2007, 03:20 AM
Henman got it spot on when he was talking about Nadal's injuries, he cant avoid them but needs to learn how to 'manage' them, with 'manage' being the key word.

Rest and recovery is the way to go, not trying to play a couple more matches to see if he can pick up a couple more hundred points while risking being more permanently damaged. #1 ranking is the coveted prize but this aint the only opportunity he can get it. If he stays healthy and plays well, the ranking will take care of itself. If thats the reason he and his team base the decision on, they are just so myopic.

Anyway, having said that, i dont think he will have a deep run given how he played in the 1R. Tipsy will take him out tonite.

MariaV
08-31-2007, 06:51 AM
Read my earlier posts about this Clara-Bow in this thread. Practically every tournament, this song and dance is done. I am not accusing him of using his injuries as an excuse for anything. I am saying that we go through this "drama" every single tournament. Heck, as you just pointed out, we just went through this in Wimbledon, Toronto there were questions about his knees, Cincy there were questions about his arm. Every single tournament!!!

Maybe he should stop feeding the media all this info and give info only when something is definite because by him giving the media all this info, he is fueling these constant "I'm Injured/Sparatan fight" stories.

There were no injury talks or problems whatsover this clay season until the Wibledon final where he obviously tweaked the knee. :confused: :shrug:
And as people have said here it's not like he can say 'it was nothing' when his both knees have tight bandages and he clearly cannot move. :shrug:

:inlove: This Rafa is a true warrior, he's almost in a wheelchair but still fighting like a dog, you gotta love the spirit of the guy !

:rolleyes: :o

Well he's the ony one who can at least a little bit match up with the supreme ballet prima. :shrug:
:hearts: :inlove: :wavey:

Action Jackson
08-31-2007, 06:57 AM
No, no, I think you missed my point. I'm not arguing whether the injury is fake or real. What I'm just saying if you decide to play with an injury then please do not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw. You need to be respectful to other players also.

Agreed.

Castafiore
08-31-2007, 07:14 AM
do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw
How do you hide an injury if your knees are taped up?

So, in this case, since he can not hide it at all, he should just pack his bags and withdraw?

Deivid23
08-31-2007, 07:49 AM
If a player is injured and not 100% he should either withdraw or never ever talks about it or admits it at all if he decides to continue to play with the injury. This should be the proper and the right way. Otherwise it is incredibly disrespectful to your opponent you just defeated even playing with your injury and very unsporting for the opponent you will meet next.

In the press conference when Nadal is being asked about his injury and physical conditions he can easily brush it aside by saying it is nothing serious, don't worry about it, next question please. Not very difficult, right?

I'm very unhappy and angry with the way Nadal and his team are handling his injury situation. It is very tactless, offensive, disrespectful and unsporting.


So speaking the truth is tactless, offensive, disrespectful and unsporting and everybody here seems to agree with this bullshit, u guys never cease to amaze me :lol:

Welcome to MTF virtual reality, ladies and gentlemen

Mimi
08-31-2007, 10:08 AM
thats true, the media ofcourse would ask him question when seeing his knees are taped up, so what do you expect him to do? remain silence? :rolleyes: if so, then the media may say him impolite not to answer question ........

its really hard to please some people, no matter what rafa did, its wrong :rolleyes:


How do you hide an injury if your knees are taped up?

So, in this case, since he can not hide it at all, he should just pack his bags and withdraw?

bokehlicious
08-31-2007, 10:37 AM
Well he's the ony one who can at least a little bit match up with the supreme ballet prima. :shrug:
:hearts: :inlove: :wavey:

Nole is more of threat than Nadal right now... :o

MariaV
08-31-2007, 11:56 AM
Nole is more of threat than Nadal right now... :o

Naah, that Montreal final was just a blip. I totally agree with Fed the Magnificent that Rafa his best buddy and Richie the eternal talent are much much better players than this Djoker.
Fed figured Nole out and will crush him in their next 10 encounters. :D
:hearts: :inlove:

rofe
08-31-2007, 12:55 PM
How do you hide an injury if your knees are taped up?

So, in this case, since he can not hide it at all, he should just pack his bags and withdraw?

Nobody is asking him to hide his injury. He needs to lay off the "I was thinking about withdrawing", "I had a sharp pain just two days ago" routine if he doesn't intend to withdraw.

He could just as easily say that yes it is tendonitis but it is ok and leave it at that.

Let me ask you a question. If he loses to Tipsy and later in the press conference uses his injury as an excuse would you be ok with it?

cmurray
08-31-2007, 01:02 PM
Nobody is asking him to hide his injury. He needs to lay off the "I was thinking about withdrawing", "I had a sharp pain just two days ago" routine if he doesn't intend to withdraw.

He could just as easily say that yes it is tendonitis but it is ok and leave it at that.

Let me ask you a question. If he loses to Tipsy and later in the press conference uses his injury as an excuse would you be ok with it?

Did you actually READ his presser, rofe? He very clearly said that its no big deal, that its feeling better and that his poor play on Wednesday was due to the fact that he didn't want to jar his knee by starting and stopping quickly on it. He called it a half an injury and told everyone that he played before with it like that. What more do you want?

MariaV
08-31-2007, 01:03 PM
Nobody is asking him to hide his injury. He needs to lay off the "I was thinking about withdrawing", "I had a sharp pain just two days ago" routine if he doesn't intend to withdraw.

He could just as easily say that yes it is tendonitis but it is ok and leave it at that.

Let me ask you a question. If he loses to Tipsy and later in the press conference uses his injury as an excuse would you be ok with it?

I prefer him saying as it is - if it wasn't USO he wouldn't have played. Simple as that.
I don't care if he loses or wins, maybe would even be better if he'd give Tipsy w/o but I doubt he'll do that. Spartan as he is. ;)

rofe
08-31-2007, 01:04 PM
Did you actually READ his presser, rofe? He very clearly said that its no big deal, that its feeling better and that his poor play on Wednesday was due to the fact that he didn't want to jar his knee by starting and stopping quickly on it. He called it a half an injury and told everyone that he played before with it like that. What more do you want?

I was referring to his on court interview.

Anyway, I hope he recovers and plays well against Tipsy. I just hope he tones down his injury concerns because if he doesn't and he wins against Tipsy then he would basically be saying that he beat Tipsy while he was injured and I would find that disrespectful.

Deivid23
08-31-2007, 01:35 PM
Nobody is asking him to hide his injury. He needs to lay off the "I was thinking about withdrawing", "I had a sharp pain just two days ago" routine if he doesn't intend to withdraw.

He could just as easily say that yes it is tendonitis but it is ok and leave it at that.

You´re really nuts :eek: :lol:

So Nadal must lie to be respectful, wtf are u people smoking in here? :cuckoo:

Burrow
08-31-2007, 01:39 PM
If he has tendonitis, he wouldn't be able to run around the way he does, if it was so f***ing bad he would withdraw, but he is just making excuses.

As usual.

Adler
08-31-2007, 01:39 PM
if you decide to play with an injury then please do not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw. You need to be respectful to other players also.
couldn't agree more. Sampras is now saying a lot about some health problems at Wimbledons, but he didn't brag about them during the tournament because he didn't want to encourage other guys

Castafiore
08-31-2007, 01:58 PM
Nobody is asking him to hide his injury.
But they were. See the post I was quoting:
not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world. If you cannot do that then just withdraw

I would agree with you if he had been talking about contemplating withdrawing, feeling sharp pain before the R1 match but he didn't.
In fact, watching him move so poorly pretty much came as a surprise to everybody, I think, exactly because he has been downplaying it in the press.
The talk about contemplating withdrawal in the weekend came after the R1 match so it didn't have an effect on this match, did it? Certainly not since he said that it has improved since then.

To be fair, I do understand the viewpoint that a player should not complain about injuries before a match because if he decides to play, that means that he feels fit enough so he needs to deal with the consequences of that decision.
Let's wait with what he says after the Tipsy match (win or loss) before passing judgement on that, shall we? :)

abol_tabol
08-31-2007, 05:03 PM
How do you hide an injury if your knees are taped up?

So, in this case, since he can not hide it at all, he should just pack his bags and withdraw?

You just brush it aside, squash the notion, tell it clearly that nothing is wrong, don't worry, not the right time to talk about it, I'm still in the tournament, no more questions on this please. That's it. A short and clear message.

You call it a lie or not being truthful? I call it being tactful and handling the situation with class. Even if it is a lie whom does it hurt? On the other hand, by being "truthful" (which nobody can be absolutely sure of in the first place unless we take Rafa at his face value and I don't understand why everybody should automatically do that unless you're a Nadal fan who thinks he is a truth telling cherubic angel who can never ever lies) he is actually making the water murky and raising 100 more questions.

It looks to me that to you and to few other Nadal fans (like cmurray, Clara Bow, Deivid23 and ...) it is more important "being truthful and honest" than making Alun Jones looks like even less of a player or messing up Tipsy's preparation for the next game or making the water so murky that we're having 10 page discussions on this in MTF. If that is the case then I don't see any point discussing this with you guys any further.

tangerine_dream
08-31-2007, 05:11 PM
No, no, I think you missed my point. I'm not arguing whether the injury is fake or real. What I'm just saying if you decide to play with an injury then please do not talk about it, do not admit that you're injured and try your best to hide it from the world.
It's difficult to not talk about an injury that you can't really hide from people (such as knees being taped up) plus the fact that it will be the only point of discussion when you meet with the media.

abol_tabol
08-31-2007, 05:13 PM
So speaking the truth is tactless, offensive, disrespectful and unsporting and everybody here seems to agree with this bullshit, u guys never cease to amaze me :lol:

Welcome to MTF virtual reality, ladies and gentlemen

What I said is nothing more or less than a "standard procedure" that every player should try to abide by. It does not surprise me to see only some of the Nadal fans are not happy with this.

If every player starts "being truthful" about their injury during the on-going tournament then where will it stop? Aren't we just then opening a floodgate? Can't everybody then start taking advantage of it? How will we decide who is being truthful and who is just faking?

Castafiore
08-31-2007, 05:33 PM
It looks to me that to you and to few other Nadal fans (like cmurray, Clara Bow, Deivid23 and ...) it is more important "being truthful and honest" than making Alun Jones looks like even less of a player or messing up Tipsy's preparation for the next game or making the water so murky that we're having 10 page discussions on this in MTF.
How does lying about injuries make other players look better exactly? Because it gives the impression to the more gullible viewers that Jones nearly beat a fully fit Nadal? I mean, everybody who knows and cares about tennis knew that something was up. How does it help Alun Jones in his career by lying about things?

How does it make Alun Jones look like less of a player? Please note that Nadal downplayed his knee problems before that match so it could not have any effect on Alun Jones.
It's not Nadal's job to make Jones look better but it is Alun's job to take advantage of the situation. Once he saw that Nadal was not fully fit, it was his job to be ruthless and use the situation.

How does it mess up Tipsy's preparation? Surely, he should be professional enough to take into account various scenarios and adapt during the match. Besides, Tipsy has his own physical problems to deal with apparently.

ExpectedWinner
08-31-2007, 05:36 PM
Anyone who makes himself/herself available for competition should be considered healthy. Until they withdraw/retire, their daily medical reports are nothing, but useless drama for sensitive fans/believers in Spartan heroes BS.

IMO, if he beats Tipsarevic (not a bad player), his injury is nothing serious/under control . In other words, we shouldn't be subjected to daily medical updates on it.

cmurray
08-31-2007, 05:39 PM
Anyone who makes himself/herself available for competition should be considered healthy. Until they withdraw/retire, their daily medical reports are nothing, but useless drama for sensitive fans/believers in Spartan heroes BS.

IMO, if he beats Tipsarevic (not a bad player), his injury is nothing serious/under control . In other words, we shouldn't be subjected to daily medical updates on it.

I agree - but Rafa has already said that its "nothing" and "only half an injury". And were he anyone besides Rafa Nadal, we wouldn't be hearing about it all. but the media just loves to talk about the guy.

Eden
08-31-2007, 05:44 PM
I have this strange feeling that it's due to that very wish of his, to get that #1 spot whatever it takes (at least so it looks to me), that is getting him into trouble. He's been whoring himself for points (Stuttgart, Hamburg), playing a lot more than his body AND his playing style permit - I so hope that these ongoing injuries won't be the toll he'll have to pay for his brave but foolish quest.


I agree with you here.

Hasn't he already missed 2 GS tournaments in the past due to injury? (FO 2004 and AO 2006) Apparently he and his team seemed to be a bit more carefully about taking the time to heal injuries - regardless which tournament he would miss.

l_mac
08-31-2007, 05:46 PM
I agree with you here.

Hasn't he already missed 2 GS tournaments in the past due to injury? (FO 2004 and AO 2006) Apparently he and his team seemed to be a bit more carefully about taking the time to heal injuries - regardless which tournament he would miss.


His injuries were far more serous in 04 and 06. As far as we are aware, this isn't even an injury. It's tendonitis.

fmolinari2005
08-31-2007, 06:36 PM
His injuries were far more serous in 04 and 06. As far as we are aware, this isn't even an injury. It's tendonitis.

Tendonitis is an injury. In Rafa's case, a chronic one. Chronic tendonitis might lead to articular problems, both directly or due to overcompensation. If I am not mistaken, back at 06 he had knee problem too, while at 04 it was a stress fracture of his foot.

Anyway. I am with ExpectedWinner: if he wins today, the injury talk should stop. Even Rafa is saying that he is only "half-injured", so we should take his word- actually, we should chose one of his words: half-injury, couldnt move the knee, nothing serious, couldnt move well during the match, things are getting better, I thought about pulling out the USO. It is just a matter of us chosing one of them.

l_mac
08-31-2007, 06:41 PM
Tendonitis is an injury. In Rafa's case, a chronic one. Chronic tendonitis might lead to articular problems, both directly or due to overcompensation. If I am not mistaken, back at 06 he had knee problem too, while at 04 it was a stress fracture of his foot.




04 was a stress fracture to his ankle (I think) and late 05/06 was a foot injury.

fmolinari2005
08-31-2007, 06:47 PM
04 was a stress fracture to his ankle (I think) and late 05/06 was a foot injury. He had suffered with tendonitis in the Madrid Masters in 05.

I guess the first was stress fracture on the foot. It doesnt matter, it was a stress fracture.

Sorry, I could swear it was due to his knee that late 05/06 injury (mainly because of how he played with an injured knee at Madrid). Tks for clarifying.

Do you know the nature of the second foot injury?!

cmurray
08-31-2007, 06:52 PM
actually, we should chose one of his words: half-injury, couldnt move the knee, nothing serious, couldnt move well during the match, things are getting better, I thought about pulling out the USO. It is just a matter of us chosing one of them.

How lovely of you to misquote Nadal. If you're going to quote him, at least do it honestly.

He said he couldn't move his knee TWO DAYS AGO, but its feeling better now. Not exactly the conflicting statement you tried to make it.

He did NOT say he couldn't move during the match, he said he DIDN'T move well during the match because he didn't want to jar anything. And he also gave credit to Jones.

And he said he HAD thought of pulling out of the Open on Monday and Tuesday but that the laser treatments helped, his knee was better and he wanted to give it a try.

l_mac
08-31-2007, 06:52 PM
I guess the first was stress fracture on the foot. It doesnt matter, it was a stress fracture.

Sorry, I could swear it was due to his knee that late 05/06 injury (mainly because of how he played with an injured knee at Madrid). Tks for clarifying.

Do you know the nature of the second foot injury?!

He had tendonitis in Madrid in 05. I think the foot injury was also a stress fracture. He missed the 03 French Open with an injury too.

ReturnWinner
08-31-2007, 06:55 PM
interesting point of views of Henman and Bjorkman

But according to Jonas Bjorkman, 35, the smarter play is to rest.

"A lot of people, they still play a lot of tennis when they have it, and that's obviously not the right medicine," said Bjorkman, who has competed professionally for 16 years. "You need to rest. Hard court is a tough surface, not only for the knees but for the lower back. It's a tough sport, but you've got to be smart and have your breaks."

Britain's Tim Henman, 32, believes that players' body type and style of play have a lot to say about how their knees hold out.

At 6 feet 1 and 170 pounds, Henman is light on his feet. And he prefers to keep points short, chipping and charging the net. Nadal is the same height as Henman but nearly 20 pounds heavier, and the Spaniard prefers to wear down opponents by out-slugging them from the baseline.

"When you're built like that, and you play like that, I think it's almost inevitable," Henman said of Nadal and his struggles with his knees. "I'm fortunate that my body type and my game is relatively stress-free. Nadal is a different story. His game is physically so demanding. He's putting so much strain on his body. You've got to manage it as best you can."

fmolinari2005
08-31-2007, 07:04 PM
How lovely of you to misquote Nadal. If you're going to quote him, at least do it honestly.

He said he couldn't move his knee TWO DAYS AGO, but its feeling better now. Not exactly the conflicting statement you tried to make it.

He did NOT say he couldn't move during the match, he said he DIDN'T move well during the match because he didn't want to jar anything. And he also gave credit to Jones.

And he said he HAD thought of pulling out of the Open on Monday and Tuesday but that the laser treatments helped, his knee was better and he wanted to give it a try.


Look again: I wrote "couldnt move well during the match". I kind of wrote those quotes in the sequence they happened/ appeared on the media. I recognize I forgot to add on the 1st that it happened two days before. But I wrote those quotes in the time frame it happened.

Because, that was the sequence: first a "half-injury", that caused him "not to move his knees" a couple of days before the match, but, according to him it was nothing "serious", but, during the match he "couldnt move that well". And, that "half-injury", who prevented him to "move his knees" a couple of days ago, but was "nothing serious", but still made him "move not so well during the match", made him "think about pulling out of the USO". Sorry, I did made a mistake, but even on the right sequence, things are confusing.

fmolinari2005
08-31-2007, 07:15 PM
He had tendonitis in Madrid in 05. I think the foot injury was also a stress fracture. He missed the 03 French Open with an injury too.


Tks. There is much talk about Rafa's chronic tendonitis, but Roger also struggled with it in the begining of 05: there was a huge talk about him suffering from plantar fasciitis (inflammation of the plantar ligament- Achiles Heel). That made him pull out of some tournaments back then.

Lets face it: tennis isnt the softest sport on earth. Of course that Nadal puts exta-pressure on his body, but it is not only his fault ...those things are bound to happen. I am not a Nadal fan, but he gets my respect for his devotion to the game. All I tried to do with those quotes was to show that there is some confusion. But it is not Nadal's fault. On those cases, I think that we should be looking at his camp. In all of this "controversy", Rafa shouldnt be the target, but his staff ... and they way they are letting people know of what is happening.

cmurray
08-31-2007, 07:24 PM
Look again: I wrote "couldnt move well during the match". I kind of wrote those quotes in the sequence they happened/ appeared on the media. I recognize I forgot to add on the 1st that it happened two days before. But I wrote those quotes in the time frame it happened.

Because, that was the sequence: first a "half-injury", that caused him "not to move his knees" a couple of days before the match, but, according to him it was nothing "serious", but, during the match he "couldnt move that well". And, that "half-injury", who prevented him to "move his knees" a couple of days ago, but was "nothing serious", but still made him "move not so well during the match", made him "think about pulling out of the USO". Sorry, I did made a mistake, but even on the right sequence, things are confusing.

It doesn't seem confusing to me, but okay. Maybe Nadal explaining it in his poor English makes it confusing.

Eden
08-31-2007, 10:48 PM
Here's a bit more about the laser treatment which Rafa got:


Nadal, other players line up for laser doctor

NEW YORK (AP) -Just as he has done a couple of times a day, every day, during the U.S. Open, Rafael Nadal showed up Friday morning at a midtown Manhattan hotel room to meet with the man with the laser.
Panicked by the pain in his left knee, Nadal turned to Pier Francesco Parra, an Italian surgeon who has used his laser treatments to cure what ails dozens of tennis starts, soccer players and Olympic skiing champion Alberto Tomba.
``It's like doing arthroscopic surgery, but without cutting the skin,'' Parra said.
Then, with a smile, he noted: ``And it takes 23 seconds.''
Seeded No. 2 at the Open, Nadal first sought out Parra on Monday after injuring his knee in a practice session Sunday. Nadal kept going back for more, including several hours before he was to play his second-round match Friday night.
With a white baseball cap on his head and black glasses at the end of his nose, Parra looks like he might be simply a spectator. The official tournament credential around his neck is thanks to his status as a doctor for the Italian tennis federation.
Parra travels the world with his portable laser machine - about the size of a small TV - and players line up wherever he's staying for a chance to see him.
Lasers have long been used in surgery, but Parra uses his to help heal or prevent muscle, ligament or tendon problems. He points a more diffused beam at the skin in the area of the injury.
He pegged his success rate at 95 percent to 97 percent.
``It's happened that sometimes it doesn't work, of course,'' Parra said.
He's been doing these types of procedures since 1988, back when Tomba was at the top of the skiing world. Parra worked for three years with the Juventus soccer club - the New York Yankees of Italy - but these days only takes tennis clients.
Parra has helped out an illustrious list of players, including two-time Grand Slam singles champion Amelie Mauresmo, major finalists Ana Ivanovic and Elena Dementieva, and other top players such as Novak Djokovic, Ivan Ljubicic and Jonas Bjorkman.
And does it really work?
Nadal said he feared he would have to withdraw from the U.S. Open before he began to feel better after Monday's first dose.
And then he thanked Parra by name after winning in the first round.

Source: http://www.tennis.com/news/news.aspx?id=102042

TankingTheSet
08-31-2007, 11:52 PM
That Ôsn't "surgery" at all, sound more like some quack therapy shining a bit of light on the knee. Cures all possible knee problems with a 95-97% success rate. Yeah right!

The main benefit of this "therapy" would be psychological.

World Beater
08-31-2007, 11:56 PM
That Ôsn't "surgery" at all, sound more like some quack therapy shining a bit of light on the knee. Cures all possible knee problems with a 95-97% success rate. Yeah right!

The main benefit of this "therapy" would be psychological.

it does sound very weird.

Sunset of Age
09-01-2007, 12:03 AM
That ïsn't "surgery" at all, sound more like some quack therapy shining a bit of light on the knee. Cures all possible knee problems with a 95-97% success rate. Yeah right!

The main benefit of this "therapy" would be psychological.

My idea, too. Sounds like its success is mainly due to the (in)famous Placebo Effect. Well, it's a well-known phenomenon: if people believe in the effectiveness of a certain therapy, it's bound to work. And sportsmen are generally known as being quite the superstitious bunch, so here we are.

Whatever, I hope Raf will be okay this evening.

stebs
09-01-2007, 12:09 AM
My idea, too. Sounds like its success is mainly due to the (in)famous Placebo Effect. Well, it's a well-known phenomenon: if people believe in the effectiveness of a certain therapy, it's bound to work. And sportsmen are generally known as being quite the superstitious bunch, so here we are.

Whatever, I hope Raf will be okay this evening.

It'll be interesting to see how he is moving about the court and how his body language reveals his confidence. It'll be even more interesting to see how Tipsarevic approaches the match and whether or not his knowledge that Nadal may not be 100% is a blessing or a curse.

DhammaTiger
09-01-2007, 12:12 AM
That Ôsn't "surgery" at all, sound more like some quack therapy shining a bit of light on the knee. Cures all possible knee problems with a 95-97% success rate. Yeah right!

The main benefit of this "therapy" would be psychological.

That's not true. Laser treatment has been used in physio-therapy for more than 15 years and it is very effective. It helps bring down inflamation of tendons etc. I have had it done on the tendonitis in my wrist, and whenever my tennis elbow flares up. I suggest people who dis treatments should read about them before opening their mouths.

fmolinari2005
09-01-2007, 12:15 AM
That Ôsn't "surgery" at all, sound more like some quack therapy shining a bit of light on the knee. Cures all possible knee problems with a 95-97% success rate. Yeah right!

The main benefit of this "therapy" would be psychological.

I got curious with this laser therapy. Laser is usually used in dermatology and ophtalmology, with great success. Even on arthroscopic surgeries they can be used, but mainly as a "knife", to burn debris and soft tissues. I was reading some studies that compare that kind of laser treatment with standard procedures, and I usually came across with studies about management of pain: on some studies they show that this laser procedure is equally as good as NSAID (non steroidal antiinflammatory drugs, like paracetamol). But, on other studies, they didnt come to the conclusion that the effectiviness is that great. In other words, from a medical standpoint, it seems that there are a lot of controversy surrounding those issues in orthopeadics. Which, clearly goes against the 95-97% success rate advocated by Dr Parra.

I dont know. I wouldnt haste to the conclusion that laser therapy's effect is due to some placebo effect. I got the idea that it is more a form of physical therapy: in other words, an adjuvant on the treatment of those maladies. But not the cure, probably.

I read some things about this italian doctor, and he has some credentials to support him. However, claiming that his treatment has such a high percentage of success against diverse pathologies leaves a bad taste in my mouth ... those sort of advertisements have "quack" written all over it. But, again, he has some credentials, and it would be hugely irresponsible from me claiming he is a quack. But, one thing is for sure: aggressive marketing and medicine doesnt go together that nicely.

TankingTheSet
09-01-2007, 12:19 AM
Well it doesn't sound like a solid scientifically proven therapy, and it just because something is used widely doesn't mean it works.

All forms of use of laser for surgery involve a focused beam of laser light focusing a lot of energy (heat) on a very small area, so that it cuts like a very precise knife. Just the fact that the doctor is trying to use a diffuse beam (i.e. shining a light) and still calls it surgery (which completely confuses it with established succesful use of focused lasers in surgery) makes it suspect.

Sunset of Age
09-01-2007, 12:36 AM
Well it doesn't sound like a solid scientifically proven therapy, and it just because something is used widely doesn't mean it works.

Yep - hence all the believers in homeopathy, vitamin C against colds, etc.
Problem is that a lot of people 'believing' in certain 'therapies' (this goes for regular therapies as well, BTW) do so based on their own incidental positive experiences, but forget to take into account that some 80-90% of all inflammations and other physical inconveniences tend to go away *by themselves* after a certain amount of time. As GP's in my country tend to say: "With treatment, it will go away in seven days. Without, in one week..." ;)

All forms of use of laser for surgery involve a focused beam of laser light focusing a lot of energy (heat) on a very small area, so that it cuts like a very precise knife. Just the fact that the doctor is trying to use a diffuse beam (i.e. shining a light) and still calls it surgery (which completely confuses it with established succesful use of focused lasers in surgery) makes it suspect.

Indeed - glad to read there's someone around over here with a basic knowledge of physics! :D This doc's 'explanation' makes this therapy sound very suspect, and even more the claimed success rate. 95-97%??? Come on... :rolleyes:

Anyhow, whatever, as Rafa feels good about it, it's bound to help him at least in the psychological area, and that might just be as important as the matter of being physically okay.

Burrow
09-06-2007, 04:17 PM
He might of well have withdrawn after his early exit and beat down at the hands of David Ferrer.