Is it just me... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Is it just me...

sykotique
05-09-2007, 06:06 PM
...or has the clay-court season become dreadfully predictable?

I know this is not a new topic, but there must be negative odds by now that every major clay tournament will feature a Federer-Nadal final. I mean, seriously, barring injury, sickness or nervous breakdown, how does any other result occur?

I know the 2 hardcourt defeats to Canas have put doubt in the minds of some whether Federer can continue to make clay finals depending on which side of the draw Canas is in, but the world #1 seems to determined to be in the final come Sunday and Nadal seems equally determined to win it.


Can anyone remember a similar stretch in history where tennis royalty, #1 and #2 just totally outclassed the entire field and met in so many finals?

CmonAussie
05-09-2007, 06:29 PM
***
It`s just you!!!!!


Seriously I don`t think we`ll get another FED vs RAFA final at Rome this year,~but if we do then I`ll be happy to see two great contrasting styles face off again!!

FluffyYellowBall
05-09-2007, 06:33 PM
Not all matches are predictable but some players are. Players like ljubicic, blake, roddick, hewitt, soderling and ginepri etc, are bound to lose on clay. Chances of someone like roddick or blake making the quarters of a RG is way lower than he likelyhood of nadal, canas or gonzalez making the quarters of AO.

Horatio Caine
05-09-2007, 06:39 PM
***
It`s just you!!!!!


Seriously I don`t think we`ll get another FED vs RAFA final at Rome this year,~but if we do then I`ll be happy to see two great contrasting styles face off again!!

I can only see Berdych stopping Federer before Sunday...

Nadal could struggle against Misha next (but unlikely to lose), could then struggle against Nole / Baggy (but unlikley to lose) and then Robredo / Canas maybe in SF...unlikely to lose.

:p

FluffyYellowBall
05-09-2007, 06:43 PM
great then he'll pass 75 match streak and hold that record! He'll be at 76 matches in the semis then.

fenomeno2111
05-09-2007, 06:55 PM
Not all matches are predictable but some players are. Players like ljubicic, blake, roddick, hewitt, soderling and ginepri etc, are bound to lose on clay. Chances of someone like roddick or blake making the quarters of a RG is way lower than he likelyhood of nadal, canas or gonzalez making the quarters of AO.

I think he's a pretty good claycourter, he's definitely not a clay-court clown compared with the likes of Ginepri, ToJo, Tursunov. Hewitt is not toobad on clay either....

guillermo
05-09-2007, 06:59 PM
I think he's a pretty good claycourter, he's definitely not a clay-court clown compared with the likes of Ginepri, ToJo, Tursunov. Hewitt is not toobad on clay either....

true, get your statristics right fluffy

Black Adam
05-09-2007, 07:01 PM
...or has the clay-court season become dreadfully predictable?

I know this is not a new topic, but there must be negative odds by now that every major clay tournament will feature a Federer-Nadal final. I mean, seriously, barring injury, sickness or nervous breakdown, how does any other result occur?

I know the 2 hardcourt defeats to Canas have put doubt in the minds of some whether Federer can continue to make clay finals depending on which side of the draw Canas is in, but the world #1 seems to determined to be in the final come Sunday and Nadal seems equally determined to win it.


Can anyone remember a similar stretch in history where tennis royalty, #1 and #2 just totally outclassed the entire field and met in so many finals?

Don't forget to bring up the topic in the grass season.

nobama
05-09-2007, 07:04 PM
Don't forget to bring up the topic in the grass season.Why do you expect Nadal to be in the finals this year?

FluffyYellowBall
05-09-2007, 07:09 PM
true, get your statristics right fluffy


I didnt say hes a bad clay courter. Im just saying hes had better results on hard..;) He had some good wins in MC beating rochus(i think??) and davydenko if i remember correctly..

I just looked up his GS records of 06..Didnt do well in any of those. But just generally speaking, hes definately a better hard courter and his game suits it.

fenomeno2111
05-09-2007, 07:11 PM
I didnt say hes a bad clay courter. Im just saying hes had better results on hard..;) He had some good wins in MC beating rochus(i think??) and davydenko if i remember correctly..

I just looked up his GS records of 06..Didnt do well in any of those. But just generally speaking, hes definately a better hard courter and his game suits it.

I think his favourite surface is clay, he ran into Nadal last year in RG...
He could play in every surface well, not a clay court specialist but not a clown in other words....

sykotique
05-09-2007, 07:19 PM
Don't forget to bring up the topic in the grass season.

Of course Federer makes the grass season predictable on HIS side of the draw. But who wins the right to lose to him in a final is an open question.


I'm talking about domination of one surface by two players, #1 and #2 in the world, plus the fact that there are known clay clowns who will never be able to get past certain rounds and clay specialists who will never be able to beat Federer and Nadal.


Understand where I'm coming?

shotgun
05-09-2007, 07:21 PM
I think his favourite surface is clay

Don't know about his "favourite" surface, but his best surface is surely indoor carpet.

Tomy
05-09-2007, 07:22 PM
Not all matches are predictable but some players are. Players like ljubicic, blake, roddick, hewitt, soderling and ginepri etc, are bound to lose on clay. Chances of someone like roddick or blake making the quarters of a RG is way lower than he likelyhood of nadal, canas or gonzalez making the quarters of AO.

Couldn't agree more with you. We'll always have some surprises, but it's true that some matches are awfully too predictable... I mean, we're at a TMS, this shouldn't be happening. I'm starting to place some bets over the internet, and I couldn't believe it when I saw the odds for Nadal's match against Bracciali. Rafa paid 1.01 (yes, U$1 for every U$100 you bet)... it was ridiculous! You NEVER see that kind of odds.

CmonAussie
05-09-2007, 07:27 PM
***
Tennis by nature is unpredictable!!!

#Was it predictable when Borg suddenly retired from tennis at the end of 1981 [after winning FO & making Wimby + USO finals that year]!!

#Was it predictable when Matina Hingis won her 5th & last Slam at age 18yrs!!!

#Was it predictable when Monica Seles was stabbed in Germany 1991 whilst being the No.1 player at the time;><:

#Was it predictable when Mats Wilander won 3/4 Slams in 1988 & then fell of te tennis map the next year!!!

....
FED & RAFA are on top now but tomorrow`s another day & learn to expect the unexpected!!!

For all we know Djokovic could end up ranked #1 at the end of 2007!!

mashamaniac
05-09-2007, 07:32 PM
yes,it's just you that sucks!
what a fucking thread this was??

sykotique
05-09-2007, 07:34 PM
Alright, let me put it this way...


On grass, anyone can lose to anyone except Federer.

On hardcourt, anyone can lose to anyone except Federer (feel free to insert the Canas argument, but I'm not convinced).

On clay, everyone will lose to everyone we expect them to lose against.

mashamaniac
05-09-2007, 07:39 PM
do you mean rafa won't win Wimbly in next 2 years??:) i completely disagree cuz i believe last year was roger's last consecutive title on grass!:wavey: and on hard,raf has won roger twice on hard...roger has lost to murray,canas,nalbandian all on hard courts so he's not unbeatable on it!

Andre'sNo1Fan
05-09-2007, 07:45 PM
...or has the clay-court season become dreadfully predictable?

I know this is not a new topic, but there must be negative odds by now that every major clay tournament will feature a Federer-Nadal final. I mean, seriously, barring injury, sickness or nervous breakdown, how does any other result occur?

I know the 2 hardcourt defeats to Canas have put doubt in the minds of some whether Federer can continue to make clay finals depending on which side of the draw Canas is in, but the world #1 seems to determined to be in the final come Sunday and Nadal seems equally determined to win it.


Can anyone remember a similar stretch in history where tennis royalty, #1 and #2 just totally outclassed the entire field and met in so many finals?

Yeah, it is boring. There is nothing very interesting about mens tennis right now. When things become predictable they become boring.

sykotique
05-09-2007, 07:58 PM
Yeah, it is boring. There is nothing very interesting about mens tennis right now. When things become predictable they become boring.

I wouldn't say it's boring. The predictability sort of raises the anticipation of the Federer-Nadal rivalry, cause we're almost sure they will inevitably meet.


I kind of like it, for the moment, but the depth of the claycourt field is questionable (no offence to either Federer or Nadal, who would be legendary in most claycourt eras).

sykotique
05-09-2007, 08:00 PM
do you mean rafa won't win Wimbly in next 2 years??:) i completely disagree cuz i believe last year was roger's last consecutive title on grass!:wavey: and on hard,raf has won roger twice on hard...roger has lost to murray,canas,nalbandian all on hard courts so he's not unbeatable on it!

You believe many things...

Andre'sNo1Fan
05-09-2007, 08:06 PM
I wouldn't say it's boring. The predictability sort of raises the anticipation of the Federer-Nadal rivalry, cause we're almost sure they will inevitably meet.


I kind of like it, for the moment, but the depth of the claycourt field is questionable (no offence to either Federer or Nadal, who would be legendary in most claycourt eras).
I'd say the depth on any surface is quite questionable right now....

mashamaniac
05-09-2007, 08:08 PM
You believe many things...

and another one is that you suck...:devil:

FluffyYellowBall
05-09-2007, 08:27 PM
Couldn't agree more with you. We'll always have some surprises, but it's true that some matches are awfully too predictable... I mean, we're at a TMS, this shouldn't be happening. I'm starting to place some bets over the internet, and I couldn't believe it when I saw the odds for Nadal's match against Bracciali. Rafa paid 1.01 (yes, U$1 for every U$100 you bet)... it was ridiculous! You NEVER see that kind of odds.

Its not just the fact that its TMS. Its the fact that top 10 players are sometimes potentiel first round losers.. It just seems to me that they dont care about the clay court season.
I watched the last 15 minutes of tursunov/gonzo match. Maybe I shoudnt be judging since i didnt watch the whole match but it looks like some of these players (tursunov although not top ten) arent aking ANY changes what so ever to try and adapt to clay. Even if it means winning ugly:rolleyes: .. U see nadal trying to adapt to grass and hard, berdych also nother example. Hes adapting better than i thought... The commemtator was just saying (now during davydenko/safin) how players are just losing to themselves on clay. Im pretty sure hes refering to this match, verdasco/gasquet and murray/henman:rolleyes:

nolop
05-09-2007, 08:28 PM
we all know nady is going to win all the damn titles, whats new :shrug:, i agree:

mashamaniac
05-09-2007, 08:37 PM
we all know nady is going to win all the damn titles, whats new :shrug:, i agree:

considering nady as rafa,i still don't agree it's boring,one-dimensional,predictabel,etc...:confused:

sykotique
05-09-2007, 08:51 PM
Let me nip this in the bud...


First of all, please do not turn this into a Federer v. Nadal thread. This has nothing to do with either player in particular, but rather their dominance as an aspect of the claycourt season's predictability.


Predictability DOES NOT NECESSARILY boring. Quality tennis is quality tennis, regardless of whether it's predictable or not and it certainly enhances the rivalry between the world's 2 top players.


The question rather is, what does this mean for the rest of the field, the classified clay clowns and clay specialists, etc.?

Rafa = Fed Killa
05-09-2007, 09:03 PM
Federer has been #1 for over 2 years.
Now that is predictable and boring.

sykotique
05-09-2007, 09:10 PM
Sigh. There's no hope for this thread. I give up.

scoobs
05-10-2007, 12:09 AM
Sigh. There's no hope for this thread. I give up.
Understandable - the vast majority of people seem incapable of understanding the nuance of your argument.

For what it's worth, I agree - it is predictable. Federer will face Nadal in the final again, and lose again. It's really hard to envisage any other outcome at all. X, Y and Z may happen on the way but who seriously expects to see anything other than Federer vs Nadal with Nadal winning?

sssss
05-10-2007, 04:10 AM
yes,it's just you that sucks!
what a fucking thread this was??

This thread is perfectly valid and it states the obvious fact and nothing else. It is posters like mashamaniac who really suck. In any important tournament on clay, be it masters or French open, two things have become certain, Federer - Nadal final and Nadal beating Federer in the final. No sensible person would deny it. And saying Federer - Nadal match up as a rivalry is a big joke. Where is the rivalry here especially on clay? Has Federer ever managed to beat Nadal on so many finals he has contested against him on clay? Nadal keeps winning all those finals against Federer. I wonder how can it be termed a rivalry when the same person always wins. In that case, Federer - Roddick is also a rivalry. Posters here seem to be very dumb and short sighted. I wonder how they cant accept a fact stated by this thread which is very much evident judging by the results. People who deny this thread are die hard Nadal fans who enjoy watching always Nadal beating Federer on each and every final on clay. No other sensible person will deny this perfectly stated thread. I also wonder why so many people love Nadal so much and enjoy watching him beat Federer. No body else ever had such a support. And to conclude, I appreciate Sykotique for his courage to state the obvious truth against the wishes of so many posters. If anybody is against this thread, you should state the obvious reasons for it. But no body does it because they don't have any valid justification for opposing this thread (which states nothing but fact) because of their obvious love towards Nadal and obvious hatred towards Federer.

sodman12
05-10-2007, 04:39 AM
Yeah 2 years ago this could be said with Federer and Roddick.

rafa_maniac
05-10-2007, 04:41 AM
People like seeing Nadal beat Fed because for so long it looked like Fed would dominate without any competition at all which is incredibly boring even to think about. At least with Nadal in the mix, it's 50/50.

oz_boz
05-10-2007, 09:14 AM
:lol: Fun to see some people saying that "but the rest of the tour is equally boring with Fed dominating" and not regarding the fact that there is a quantitative difference when there is at least the uncertainty of whom the other finalist will be. Now BOTH finalists are decided beforehand, and the winner. Why wouldn't that be more "boring", unless you are a fan of Rafa?

Yes, the claycourt season is even more predictable than the rest. And I guess it will stay so for a while, since Fed might be losing his stranglehold of the hc, but a clay challenge for Nadal is nowhere in sight.

Still, Rafa's clay game is amazing.

Castafiore
05-10-2007, 09:23 AM
After having read the last few posts and just remembering the opening posts without bothering to read the middle part of it:

How do you go from "where are the interviews on the official site" to another "Federer vs Nadal...domination is boring" thread?
:scratch:
(I know, I know...it's one of MTF's laws but still...:zzz:)

Conita
05-10-2007, 10:04 AM
not as predictable as grass...

Frooty_Bazooty
05-10-2007, 10:14 AM
if you think the season is so predictable right now, play PAW and we'll see how you do :p

bokehlicious
05-10-2007, 12:14 PM
When things become predictable they become boring.

That's exactly the way I feel anytime I read one of your posts... :)

ginnylegend
05-10-2007, 12:17 PM
That's exactly the way I feel anytime I read one of your posts... :)

And when I read one of yours.

RonE
05-10-2007, 12:36 PM
Sigh. There's no hope for this thread. I give up.

Not as long as R=FK and his ilk continue to pollute it with their blind fanboyism no.

In regards to the question in the original thread- no its not just you. :)