#OK for players to TANK-sets to conserve energy [*eg.DJOKOVIC`timely Estoril Bagel`]? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

#OK for players to TANK-sets to conserve energy [*eg.DJOKOVIC`timely Estoril Bagel`]?

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 05:56 PM
***
What do you think:confused:
Should we expect more from the top players???

Djokovic clearly tanked the 2nd set against Gasquet today~~> should this be acceptable:confused:

#Personally i have mixed feelings, afterall a long match on clay is obviously exhausting-> perhaps it`s reasonable under the circumstances...:devil:

Johnny Groove
05-06-2007, 05:57 PM
OMFG, please shut up :o

scarecrows
05-06-2007, 05:59 PM
do you actually think before posting a thread

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 06:00 PM
OMFG, please shut up :o

You`re a nasty piece of work:eek:

BTW Estoril scoreline:

Djokovic vs Gasquet
7-6, 0-6, 2-0
:eek: :devil:

El Legenda
05-06-2007, 06:02 PM
why would Djokovic tank a set in a best of 3? why dont you think more?

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 06:04 PM
why would Djokovic tank a set in a best of 3? why dont you think more?

:wavey:
Simple>> Nole got broken in the 1st game of the 2nd set & decided that instead of battling through another hour long set [the 1st was a beauty] he`d rather save his energy for the deciding 3rd set;)

Johnny Groove
05-06-2007, 06:06 PM
do you actually think before posting a thread

why dont you think more?

:bigclap:

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 06:08 PM
:bigclap:

Score update:p

7-6, 0-6, 4-1
...
That 2nd set looks odd:confused:

El Legenda
05-06-2007, 06:09 PM
:wavey:
Simple>> Nole got broken in the 1st game of the 2nd set & decided that instead of battling through another hour long set [the 1st was a beauty] he`d rather save his energy for the deciding 3rd set;)

tell that the Wayne Ferrera who was down 2-0 in sets and *5-1 in the 3rd vs Ljubicic at AO in 2002 and still won.

Rafa = Fed Killa
05-06-2007, 06:11 PM
Djoko knows Gasquet sucks so he just gave him a free set.

jayjay
05-06-2007, 06:11 PM
***
What do you think:confused:
Should we expect more from the top players???

Djokovic clearly tanked the 2nd set against Gasquet today~~> should this be acceptable:confused:

#Personally i have mixed feelings, afterall a long match on clay is obviously exhausting-> perhaps it`s reasonable under the circumstances...:devil:

I don't know what happened re: Djokovic/Gasquet as I have not been watching the match, let us for arguments sake say you are correct and indeed Djokovic tanked the second set.

If you were him and you were two breaks down at 4-0, would you bust a gut to get back in a set that you were likely going to lose instead of focus your energies on getting a solid start in the decider?

Think about it. If he was feeling tired, he therefore only has a certain amount of energy which he must conserve for opportune times, not blow his load in an attempt to lose a set 6-3 or 6-4 for the sake of some numpty who feels he should.

The players don't owe anything to anyone other than themselves, each player has to play to the way they feel is the best for them to give them the best chance to win. If Djokovic thought the set was gone and let it go, it's entirely up to him, the same for any other player.

He is not losing intentionally, he is letting something go which he feels is already lost in an attempt to focus on the larger battle ahead (ie. the deciding set).

Djokovic has just won another title, so he made the right decision, no?

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 06:12 PM
tell that the Wayne Ferrera who was down 2-0 in sets and *5-1 in the 3rd vs Ljubicic at AO in 2002 and still won.


*Ferreira was a brave old fighter, though he didn`t make the most of his talent!!

*Djokovic is a different breed:devil: , this guy is born to win ~ be it pretty or ugly, basically he`s much smarter than the Sth African veteran you were referring to;)

scarecrows
05-06-2007, 06:12 PM
:wavey:
Simple>> Nole got broken in the 1st game of the 2nd set & decided that instead of battling through another hour long set [the 1st was a beauty] he`d rather save his energy for the deciding 3rd set;)

that's what i call good strategy

i wish my opponents could let me win the second set after they've won the first

JBdV
05-06-2007, 06:12 PM
What do you expect him to do? :confused: He's not 100% fit...
It's the smart thing to do.

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 06:13 PM
I don't know what happened re: Djokovic/Gasquet as I have not been watching the match, let us for arguments sake say you are correct and indeed Djokovic tanked the second set.

If you were him and you were two breaks down at 4-0, would you bust a gut to get back in a set that you were likely going to lose instead of focus your energies on getting a solid start in the decider?

Think about it. If he was feeling tired, he therefore only has a certain amount of energy which he must conserve for opportune times, not blow his load in an attempt to lose a set 6-3 or 6-4 for the sake of some numpty who feels he should.

The players don't owe anything to anyone other than themselves, each player has to play to the way they feel is the best for them to give them the best chance to win. If Djokovic thought the set was gone and let it go, it's entirely up to him, the same for any other player.

He is not losing intentionally, he is letting something go which he feels is already lost in an attempt to focus on the larger battle ahead (ie. the deciding set).

Djokovic has just won another title, so he made the right decision, no?


:wavey:
Totally agree with you mate:cool:

Black Adam
05-06-2007, 06:14 PM
Way to go Joker :haha: :haha: Can't beleive Gasgay fell for that trick :tape: Second time Joker pulls of a stunt like that (resting whilst eating a bagel before finishing of his opponent), remember how he did Monfils in USO 2005 without the exagerated 20 minute break.

All is fair in Love and war :haha: :rocker2:

Corswandt
05-06-2007, 06:16 PM
Not sure if it's "OK". One thing I'm sure though: some people here seem to doubt it, but that second set was most definitely a tank job by Nole. And he began tanking immediately after he got broken on the opening game.

I knew he sometimes tanked sets in best of five matches, but I had never seen something quite like this before.

uglyamerican
05-06-2007, 06:17 PM
The players don't owe anything to anyone other than themselves, each player has to play to the way they feel is the best for them to give them the best chance to win.


I would say that the players owe it to the fans to give a sincere effort to try to win the match (if physically possible). So, when conserving energy at the end of a lost set gives them the best chance of winning the match, the player has done what is best for the fans.

uglyamerican
05-06-2007, 06:18 PM
All is fair in Love and war

Except for the use of poison gas, which is grounds for breaking up with a person, IMO.

amierin
05-06-2007, 06:19 PM
Lousy tactic IMO. I didn't like it at all. Not the mark of a true champion.

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 06:19 PM
Not sure if it's "OK". One thing I'm sure though: some people here seem to doubt it, but that second set was most definitely a tank job by Nole. And he began tanking immediately after he got broken on the opening game.

I knew he sometimes tanked sets in best of five matches, but I had never seen something quite like this before.


:wavey:
Thank you:cool:
...
I had to cop half a dozen insults from various MTF posters who didn`t believe it was a `tank job 2nd set`><..

case
05-06-2007, 06:24 PM
Lousy tactic IMO. I didn't like it at all. Not the mark of a true champion.

agreed. so much for his tennis abilities. :rolleyes: might have got him past the flaky gasquet but is this why we are tennis fans?

MariaV
05-06-2007, 06:26 PM
I can only say that it's NOT OK. :(

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 06:47 PM
***
Gaudio & Coria did a nice job trading `set tanks` at the 2004 FO final<:)
#For Gaudio the strategy paid off, for Coria it backfired!!!
...
0-6 3-6 6-4 6-1 8-6

fenomeno2111
05-06-2007, 06:52 PM
Why ArE aLl your threds written LiKe tHIZZ!!! 'they ARE annoying !!!***//!!!!
*******EDit***///---
I forgot these
:sad: :rolleyes: :D :devil: :)

jayjay
05-06-2007, 06:55 PM
***
Gaudio & Coria did a nice job trading `set tanks` at the 2004 FO final<:)
#For Gaudio the strategy paid off, for Coria it backfired!!!
...
0-6 3-6 6-4 6-1 8-6

It didn't backfire at all. They both had their chances to win, Coria didn't take his, Gaudio did. With all due respect, do you know what you're on about? Gaudio didn't lose the 1st set 6-0 to conserve energy, he simply didn't turn up and Coria did. The 3rd set was the best set of tennis in the match where both players were playing at a good level at the same time. The 4th set was a non-event and the 5th was full of nerves and a whole load of diahorrea.

Kitty de Sade
05-06-2007, 06:58 PM
It didn't backfire at all. They both had their chances to win, Coria didn't take his, Gaudio did. With all due respect, do you know what you're on about? Gaudio didn't lose the 1st set 6-0 to conserve energy, he simply didn't turn up and Coria did. The 3rd set was the best set of tennis in the match where both players were playing at a good level at the same time. The 4th set was a non-event and the 5th was full of nerves and a whole load of diahorrea.

This post is spot on. :yeah:

The last sentence just made me spit water onto my keyboard. I shouldn't be laughing, but I can't help it...:haha:

*bunny*
05-06-2007, 06:59 PM
***
Gaudio & Coria did a nice job trading `set tanks` at the 2004 FO final<:)
#For Gaudio the strategy paid off, for Coria it backfired!!!
...
0-6 3-6 6-4 6-1 8-6

Did you watch that match!?
There was no tank job at all.
Coria was the huge favourite, everyone expected him to win in straight.
I doubt if anyone, including himself, expected Gaudio to make the final. And the occasion took him and he lost the 1st set tamely 0-6.
Then when the goal line appeared in sight, Coria got tight and his legs started to cramp.
In the fourth set, he couldn't run at all, he was just limping, it was sad to see him like that to the point it was almost embarrassing that he didn't retire at that point. But he held on and waited for the cramps to subside. It was no tanking. He wasn't saving energy, he didn't have energy at all at that point.

Horatio Caine
05-06-2007, 07:02 PM
Why is it unacceptable to tank to save energy exactly? If you're absolutely shattered after winning the 1st set and can barely breath, why is it a problem to take your foot off the accelerator for 20 minutes or so to prevent the onset of a heart attack? I'm sure Nole wasn't going to have one of those, but someone at my squash club keeled over with one the other day...it happens.

Burrow
05-06-2007, 07:07 PM
Yes, Why Not???

Action Jackson
05-06-2007, 07:08 PM
***
Gaudio & Coria did a nice job trading `set tanks` at the 2004 FO final<:)
#For Gaudio the strategy paid off, for Coria it backfired!!!
...
0-6 3-6 6-4 6-1 8-6

Joker.

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 07:15 PM
Joker;) .


GWH mate:cool:
...
Amazing you were the only one who realised I was joking about the Gaudio/Coria wacky match;)

*Though Coria`s attitude in the 4th set was hard to watch:sad: , how did someone with that mentality manage to reach the top ranks of men`s tennis:confused: :eek:

Action Jackson
05-06-2007, 07:18 PM
GWH mate:cool:
...
Amazing you were the only one who realised I was joking about the Gaudio/Coria wacky match;)

*Though Coria`s attitude in the 4th set was hard to watch:sad: , how did someone with that mentality manage to reach the top ranks of men`s tennis:confused: :eek:

Not always easy to manage your emotions under extreme pression. If you don't know what and where he came from then it's not surprising that you wouldn't understand how that could have happened. Does it mean it should have? I doubt he willingly wanted to cramp at that moment.

jayjay
05-06-2007, 07:34 PM
*Though Coria`s attitude in the 4th set was hard to watch:sad: , how did someone with that mentality manage to reach the top ranks of men`s tennis:confused: :eek:

His attitude? What? You mean being pissed off that his mind and body let him down in the biggest match of his life as the finishing line came near?

Coria has quite a strong mentality if you have followed his career and seen what he has achieved after the setbacks he has come back from. I don't think you fully appreciate the magintude of that match for both Coria and Gaudio, aside from being the biggest match of both of their lives, the internal rivalry of their encounter, and all that had gone before for both of them on and off the court.

It wasn't one of the best French Open finals from a tennis perspective, as both players played well at the same time infrequently during the match, but for drama and tension it was one of the most watchable of recent years.

You're a little off with your interpretation of the match in my view, but that's opinions for you.

Frooty_Bazooty
05-06-2007, 07:39 PM
***
What do you think:confused:
Should we expect more from the top players???

Djokovic clearly tanked the 2nd set against Gasquet today~~> should this be acceptable:confused:

#Personally i have mixed feelings, afterall a long match on clay is obviously exhausting-> perhaps it`s reasonable under the circumstances...:devil:

i hate you

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 07:40 PM
***
Djokovic`s building a nice little resume for himself<:)
...
Another eg. of `set tanking`:

2005 USO Rd1
Djokovic vs Monfils
7-5 4-6 7-6(5) 0-6 7-5

Action Jackson
05-06-2007, 07:42 PM
CmonAussie, Agassi the man you worship admitted to tanking sets to conserve his energy. So was it Ok for him and not Djokovic?

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 07:42 PM
i hate you:eek: :eek:


You "hate" me:confused: :confused:
...
Take it easy we`re only chatting about tennis;)
Have I ever done anything nasty to you personally:confused: :confused:

*If you met me you would realise I`m a very nice person:angel:
Nobody has ever said they "hate" me before:sad: :sad:

ReturnWinner
05-06-2007, 07:43 PM
tanking a set is not that bad, the bad thing the shit Djokovic did against Garcia Lopez and against other players too.

jayjay
05-06-2007, 07:44 PM
CmonAussie, are you just assuming every 6-0, 6-1 set was a tank or did you actually watch these matches to judge what you are seeing?

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 07:45 PM
CmonAussie, Agassi the man you worship admitted to tanking sets to conserve his energy. So was it Ok for him and not Djokovic?


;)
It`s OK for both Agassi & Djokovic:cool:
...
You obviously didn`t understand my original post:confused:
*If I were in Nole`s shoes I may have done the same thing:devil:

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 07:47 PM
CmonAussie, are you just assuming every 6-0, 6-1 set was a tank or did you actually watch these matches to judge what you are seeing?

:wavey:
I watched today`s match --> & the 2nd set was a fair dinkum tank;)
...
About Gaudio/Coria [saw that too] I was joking;) , of course nobody would deliberately tank in a close final of a Slam;)
...
About Djokovic/Monfils 05 USO encounter,~ from everything I`ve read & heard that was another classic eg. of `set tanking`[to conserve energy];)

Action Jackson
05-06-2007, 07:51 PM
;)
It`s OK for both Agassi & Djokovic:cool:
...
You obviously didn`t understand my original post:confused:
*If I were in Nole`s shoes I may have done the same thing:devil:

Just to make sure and as for tanking sets, better that than tanking matches.

jayjay
05-06-2007, 07:52 PM
:wavey:
I watched today`s match --> & the 2nd set was a fair dinkum tank;)
...
About Gaudio/Coria [saw that too] I was joking;) , of course nobody would deliberately tank in a close final of a Slam;)
...
About Djokovic/Monfils 05 USO encounter,~ from everything I`ve read & heard that was another classic eg. of `set tanking`[to conserve energy];)

I was just asking in general. I don't disagree about Djokovic/Monfils, I saw the match, it was played in extreme heat and Djokovic fainted about 18,484 times in the match. That 5th set was disrupted to the extreme unfortunately and Monfils was the victim, one of the flaws of the injury time out. Not that it's available, but that Monfils had to wait around for 15-20mins while Djokovic got himself together after being outlasted.

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 07:59 PM
Just to make sure and as for tanking sets, better that than tanking matches.


;) Exactly my point,~that`s why I started this thread in the 1st place!!

Frooty_Bazooty
05-06-2007, 08:20 PM
You "hate" me:confused: :confused:
...
Take it easy we`re only chatting about tennis;)
Have I ever done anything nasty to you personally:confused: :confused:

*If you met me you would realise I`m a very nice person:angel:
Nobody has ever said they "hate" me before:sad: :sad:

oh lol sorry i didnt mean it seriously, i was just kidding

CmonAussie
05-06-2007, 08:23 PM
oh lol sorry i didnt mean it seriously, i was just kidding

;) OK I`ll take it in jest..

Dusk Soldier
05-06-2007, 11:04 PM
CmonAussie, are you just assuming every 6-0, 6-1 set was a tank or did you actually watch these matches to judge what you are seeing?

Isn't Djokovic really famous for tanking? I'm remember people talking about that alot last season.

Snowwy
05-06-2007, 11:28 PM
Of course he tanked the second set, but it worked and Id rather see him tank a set than take a dumb injury timeout cuz of his 'breathing'.

griffin_230
05-06-2007, 11:37 PM
I saw the match and I think it was pretty obvious that Djoko tanked the second set (after being broken and falling behind early in the set) to save his energy and focus for the decider.

You may not like it, but it was actually a pretty smart move by the Serb.

leng jai
05-07-2007, 01:35 AM
I'm pretty sure Nole tanked the warm up too.

Schu
05-07-2007, 03:12 AM
Of course he tanked the second set, but it worked and Id rather see him tank a set than take a dumb injury timeout cuz of his 'breathing'.

How about just play the game and not pull these cheap tricks. If you don't have enough confidence to win with your racket, you aren't going to reach the top. Eventually quality opponents will make him pay. SOOO sorry that the enormously talented Gasquet couldn't make him pay today.

CmonAussie
05-07-2007, 04:07 AM
How about just play the game and not pull these cheap tricks. If you don't have enough confidence to win with your racket, you aren't going to reach the top. Eventually quality opponents will make him pay. SOOO sorry that the enormously talented Gasquet couldn't make him pay today.


:wavey:
I think you`re wrong;) .. Djokovic`s problem may be that he has `too much confidence`:eek:
*To tank a set 0-6 & then win the deciding set 6-1... [in a final no less] takes extraordinary confidence:devil: .. Not many players can pull that sort of thing off when the want to, but Nole`s managed to do it a few times now,~seems to have the kind of self-belief that will get him to the top #1 [in my opinion]:cool:

Schu
05-07-2007, 04:29 AM
:wavey:
I think you`re wrong;) .. Djokovic`s problem may be that he has `too much confidence`:eek:
*To tank a set 0-6 & then win the deciding set 6-1... [in a final no less] takes extraordinary confidence:devil: .. Not many players can pull that sort of thing off when the want to, but Nole`s managed to do it a few times now,~seems to have the kind of self-belief that will get him to the top #1 [in my opinion]:cool:

Or he's just plain crazy... You could be right but to me it shows some sort of weakness - not sure what but something is missing. Tanking is often the way to relieve stress and not a sign of confidence - he was just lucky his opponent couldn't take advantage of this tank. Credit to Nole for finding a way to win and pulling that off but what a way. If he tanked because he was too confident then he is a bigger jerk than I thought.

Forehander
05-07-2007, 05:28 AM
lol what's wrong with tanking? I reckon it's actually quite a reasonable tactic. I use it in my tournaments here and I must say it is quite useful. The opponent is actually the one foolish if he falls for it. Nadal does alot of tanking too. It's like playing really bad on purpose to conserve energy so your opponent relaxes then suddenly in the deciding set just blast out all your potentials to mess his rhythm up. There's a high chance that you'll get the first break in the deciders if you Tank. For the win, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Kolya
05-07-2007, 10:59 AM
Do whatever to win.

Corswandt
05-07-2007, 02:02 PM
:wavey:
I think you`re wrong;) .. Djokovic`s problem may be that he has `too much confidence`:eek:
*To tank a set 0-6 & then win the deciding set 6-1... [in a final no less] takes extraordinary confidence:devil:

Exactly. Tanking a set in a best of three final is a sign of sky high confidence rather than the opposite.

Schu
05-07-2007, 04:46 PM
Exactly. Tanking a set in a best of three final is a sign of sky high confidence rather than the opposite.

Or a sign that you don't have enough character to gut it out mentally ...

To me anyone who tanks is just too weak to face the prospect of guttting out a match. I see no problem with not going all out on a return game to save energy for your serve but to tank a WHOLE set because you get broken early in the set is just being afraid to fight. And even if the cheap trick works it still shows a lack of character to me and does nothing for the sport of tennis.

denibas77
05-07-2007, 10:32 PM
lol what's wrong with tanking? I reckon it's actually quite a reasonable tactic. I use it in my tournaments here and I must say it is quite useful. The opponent is actually the one foolish if he falls for it. Nadal does alot of tanking too. It's like playing really bad on purpose to conserve energy so your opponent relaxes then suddenly in the deciding set just blast out all your potentials to mess his rhythm up. There's a high chance that you'll get the first break in the deciders if you Tank. For the win, I don't see anything wrong with it.

That what Haas done to Marat at us open 06 .he couldn't stay with him(Safin )third set so gave him easily the last games,Marat relaxed he didn't have to do much to win games ,so his level droped.That cost Marat the fourth set and match,he never return to his ritam of play of first three sets.