Breaking news: At least 20 dead in campus shooting .. (33 confirmed dead) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Breaking news: At least 20 dead in campus shooting .. (33 confirmed dead)

Denaon
04-16-2007, 05:58 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

(CNN) -- The Virginia Tech police chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning.

"Some victims were shot in a classroom," Chief Wendell Flinchum said, adding that the gunman was dead.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university President Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified." (Map of Blacksburg)

The attacks mark the worst school shooting incident since 1999 when Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.

A hospital spokeswoman told The Associated Press that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries.

Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.

One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall, the engineering science and mechanics building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported. (Watch police, ambulances hustle to the scene Video)

The first reported shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on the 2,600-acre campus, is located near the drill field and stadium.

Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at the dormitory reported "mass chaos."

The reporter said there were "lots of students running around, going crazy, and the police officers were trying to settle everyone down and keep everything under control," according to Steele.

Kristyn Heiser said she was in class about 9:30 a.m. when she and her classmates saw about six gun-wielding police officers run by a window.

"We were like, 'What's going on?' Because this definitely is a quaint town where stuff doesn't really happen. It's pretty boring here," said Heiser during a phone interview as she sat on her classroom floor.

Student Matt Waldron said he did not hear the gunshots because he was listening to music, but he heard police sirens and saw officers hiding behind trees with their guns drawn.

"They told us to get out of there so we ran across the drill field as quick as we could," he said.

Waldron described the scene on campus as "mayhem." (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs Video)

"It was kind of scary," he said. "These two kids I guess had panicked and jumped out of the top story window and the one kid broke his ankle and the other girl was not in good shape just lying on the ground."

Madison Van Duyne said she and her classmates in a media writing class were on "lockdown" in their classrooms. They were huddled in the middle of the classroom, writing stories about the shootings and posting them online.

The university is updating its 26,000 students through e-mails, and an Internet webcam is broadcasting live pictures of the campus.

The shootings came three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.

After the Monday shootings, students were instructed to stay indoors and away from windows, police at the university said.

"A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows," read a warning from the university.

"Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where they are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus," a statement on the university Web site said.

All I gotta say about this is that the world is full of lunatics. :sad:
My condolences to the victims' families and friends :smooch:

Louche
04-16-2007, 06:03 PM
I think the gunman was shot dead....maybe more student deaths?

savesthedizzle
04-16-2007, 06:04 PM
I heard about this on the news. It's absolutely tragic. :sad:

adee-gee
04-16-2007, 06:11 PM
I don't know what to say :shrug:

Truly horrendous :sad:

justClaudia
04-16-2007, 06:18 PM
My God, this is unbelievable. :sad:

marti_228
04-16-2007, 06:31 PM
That's terrible!
I don't why this kind of stuff happens so often in the US. It's tragic and this is the worst that has ever happened.

Denaon
04-16-2007, 06:33 PM
That's terrible!
I don't why this kind of stuff happens so often in the US. It's tragic and this is the worst that has ever happened.

Exactly, that's the reason I posted it....it's said to be worse than the Columbine shooting :shrug:

MisterQ
04-16-2007, 06:34 PM
What can you say about this sort of thing? Senseless... :sad:

cobalt60
04-16-2007, 06:41 PM
Total horror :sad:

Louche
04-16-2007, 06:44 PM
The Whitehouse:

A White House spokesman said
President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

What does that mean - carry a gun but don't shoot people?

Yes, most know that, except for Cheney.

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 06:59 PM
I am waiting for the youtube videos, there is a video on cnn from someone who recorded the shooting from outside you can here all the shots... or alot ofd them... 32 are dead

guille&tati4life
04-16-2007, 07:04 PM
Awful stuff :sad:

merce
04-16-2007, 07:23 PM
i'm reading about it in the news
so sad, violence needs to stop

Jim Jones
04-16-2007, 07:24 PM
The worst killing since Colmbine? Jeez, those guys can't count. It is worse then Colombine!

mangoes
04-16-2007, 07:29 PM
This is absolutely horrible:sad: :sad: :sad:

Louche
04-16-2007, 07:35 PM
ABC news is now reporting 31 deaths. :sad:

mangoes
04-16-2007, 07:36 PM
ABC news is now reporting 31 deaths. :sad:


I just saw it on CNN......Up to 31:sad: :sad: :sad: This is so terrible.

justClaudia
04-16-2007, 07:36 PM
ABC news is now reporting 31 deaths. :sad:

Yes, so is CNN. :sad:

JustJames
04-16-2007, 07:39 PM
Tragic...totally unexplainable as to why a person would be so troubled that they feel the solution is to kill innocent people. :sad:

The BBC had suggested that 32 people were killed, but are now saying 'at least 20 people'. Regardless of the number its very sad...

MissPovaFan
04-16-2007, 07:40 PM
The Whitehouse:

A White House spokesman said
President Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia.

"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

What does that mean - carry a gun but don't shoot people?

Yes, most know that, except for Cheney.

This is such an awful tragedy :sad: I feel desperately sorry for all the families and friends of the dead :sad:

Surely it's now time for the United States to stop allowing the glorification of guns and to instead ban them likethey have done here in England after the Dunblane incident. :(

Sparko1030
04-16-2007, 07:46 PM
Now its 31 dead??? So terrible....sadly its not the surprise like Columbine. Anymore, its not will it happen again but when. No simple answers why this happens in the US. Combination of many things. Oh, yeah, and let us now look to our "gun carrying saint" the Pres for words of wisdom.....:rolleyes: His leadership in this area has been uh, nothing less then stupid-endous. And gosh, another point to the NRA. I'm sure this young man only bought the guns to defend himself.....

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 07:57 PM
Surely it's now time for the United States to stop allowing the glorification of guns and to instead ban them likethey have done here in England after the Dunblane incident. :(
yes, because we all know that has turned out to be a great success, NOT!!

http://www.rkba.org/comment/brown/England.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3419941.stm
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/01/05/ixopinion.html
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-cost-of-gun-control.html

even when the UK had the same gun laws as the US did, there was more murders by handguns in the US, so it must be something else than a simple gun ban that has caused this...

Oh and many latin american countries have much stricter gun laws than the US, yet their murder rates are higher, what gives? lol

ps. not that these results will change your mind, as we have seen feel good policy is always supported regardless of results...

RonE
04-16-2007, 07:59 PM
Holy sh*t :eek:

Such a waste :awww: :sad:

Jim Jones
04-16-2007, 08:04 PM
It is actually 30 dead. gunmen don't count.

alfonsojose
04-16-2007, 08:07 PM
gunmen? i tought it was just one crazy guy :speakles: :tears:

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 08:11 PM
gunmen? i tought it was just one crazy guy :speakles: :tears:

it was just one, Ive heard two reports, one that he killed himself, other that he got killed by police.

alfonsojose
04-16-2007, 08:12 PM
yes, because we all know that has turned out to be a great success, NOT!!

http://www.rkba.org/comment/brown/England.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3419941.stm
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/01/05/ixopinion.html
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-cost-of-gun-control.html

even when the UK had the same gun laws as the US did, there was more murders by handguns in the US, so it must be something else than a simple gun ban that has caused this...

Oh and many latin american countries have much stricter gun laws than the US, yet their murder rates are higher, what gives? lol

ps. not that these results will change your mind, as we have seen feel good policy is always supported regardless of results...

:cuckoo:
Very stupid and conveniet comparision. Columbia, my country, is violent as hell is some areas, but most of the violence is about drugs and the old civil wars. But a first world country, with crazy shootings in high schools or universities is ridiculous and embarrasing. In some parts of U.S. it's easier to get a gun than a next day pill :rolleyes: :smash:

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 08:25 PM
:cuckoo:
Very stupid and conveniet comparision. Columbia, my country, is violent as hell is some areas, but most of the violence is about drugs and the old civil wars. But a first world country, with crazy shootings in high schools or universities is ridiculous and embarrasing. In some parts of U.S. it's easier to get a gun than a next day pill :rolleyes: :smash:

That's just colombia, I provided like 4 links look at any of them, they talk specifically about rising crime rates in the UK after the ban on hand gunds, one also points out how when the US and UK had the same gun laws there was still more deaths by gun in the US, so what was the problem back then?

And the statement I made about latin america holds true if they have much more stringent laws than the US, then why do they have higher crime rate, and drug laws have nothing to do with it, as most of the US murders come from the stupid drug prohibition.

And in colombia its easier to get a handgun than an abortion :smash:

Sparko1030
04-16-2007, 08:29 PM
In many states yet, its more difficult to get a drivers license than a gun. Yet, at the mention that it should be required to take a class, pass a test and get permit for a firearm, the NRA and its minions scream about loosing their right to bear arms. What, they're worried they won't be able to pass a test???? Drives me crazy to say the least.....

Availablity of firearms is not the only factor in these kind of shootings, but it certainly is a piece of the puzzle.

MarieS
04-16-2007, 08:34 PM
this is so sad :sad::bigcry:
Worst mass murder in US history...CBS is saying 32 dead now :sobbing: :sobbing: :sobbing: .and it could've been prevented too :help:.

Johnny Groove
04-16-2007, 08:35 PM
Very sad :sad:

As for gun availability, Wal-Mart sells them :tape:

cmurray
04-16-2007, 08:40 PM
My God.

There are some sick demented people in the world. Has the news said WHY this gunman went on a rampage?

buddyholly
04-16-2007, 09:00 PM
One early report said he was looking for his girlfriend!!!!!!! I am jumping to conclusions, but I think I also saw that all students except one were killed in class - and one girl was killed in bed - the girlfriend?
I think the dorm shooting was first, followed by the others a couple of hours later. Very strange.

MarieS
04-16-2007, 09:05 PM
One early report said he was looking for his girlfriend!!!!!!! I am jumping to conclusions, but I think I also saw that all students except one were killed in class - and one girl was killed in bed - the girlfriend?
I think the dorm shooting was first, followed by the others a couple of hours later. Very strange.

Yes, there was a single shooting at a dorm at 7 in the morning :sad:...And the mass shooting happened at around 10 in an academic building(engineering classrooms) :sad:. On the news, a lot of people are questioning why the school wasn't evacuated or put on notice after the first shooting :sad:.

marti_228
04-16-2007, 09:10 PM
There is definetely something wrong with the laws about guns and with the minds of those murderers. I don't know why the US has many of these crazy people that enter a university or a school to kill others. It's definetely something deeper than laws.

In Argentina like 3 years ago there was a shooting at one school in Carmen de Patagoones. A pupil of about 14 years old entered with a gun that belonged to his uncle or father and killed 3 kids.

These are terrible news.

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 09:18 PM
In many states yet, its more difficult to get a drivers license than a gun. Yet, at the mention that it should be required to take a class, pass a test and get permit for a firearm, the NRA and its minions scream about loosing their right to bear arms. What, they're worried they won't be able to pass a test???? Drives me crazy to say the least.....

Availablity of firearms is not the only factor in these kind of shootings, but it certainly is a piece of the puzzle.
So you want to give training to the people purchasing the firearms, not only do they have a gun but now they know how to shoot it accurately, lol...
A simple test wont deter people who want to purchase a gun to kill...

Here is a state by state look at handgun laws, ironically some states with the toughest gun laws also have the highest crime rates...
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/gun.control/

Louche
04-16-2007, 09:21 PM
It is very unusual for this to happen in other countries, I think - apart from Dunblane and isolated others. Don't know why it is a uniquely US phenomenon. Gun violence is common in many places...but schools - it's very tragic.

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 09:22 PM
There is definetely something wrong with the laws about guns and with the minds of those murderers. I don't know why the US has many of these crazy people that enter a university or a school to kill others. It's definetely something deeper than laws.

In Argentina like 3 years ago there was a shooting at one school in Carmen de Patagoones. A pupil of about 14 years old entered with a gun that belonged to his uncle or father and killed 3 kids.

These are terrible news.

yeah like I said, when the UK and US had the same or very similar laws, the US still had more gun crime, its definetly more a cultural problem, compare the UK and Switzerland: A European example would be to compare the violent crime levels between the United Kingdom, which has very strict rules against gun ownership, to Switzerland, which has fully automatic assault rifles in 14% of homes. [1] According to the British Home Office, Switzerland had a homicide rate per 100,000 of 1.2 average over the years 1999-2001, which is less than England & Wales at 1.61, although Scotland is higher at 2.16, while Northern Ireland - with its historically exceptional conditions - is 2.65. The latter compares with the Irish Republic (with similar gun control laws to the UK) at 1.42. [2]

These data indicate a negative correlation between gun ownership and crime. However, simple correlative evidence concerning two examples is inconclusive as to causation. Put another way, these data do not conclusively indicate that the higher gun ownership rate in Switzerland is a cause of that country's lower homicide rate, although that conclusion is frequently drawn. In addition, the prevalence of firearms in Switzerland is a direct result of its rigidly-controlled citizen army comprising most of the adult male population, who keep their service weapons at home, and so can be viewed as an exceptional case not directly comparable to other countries, even those with a high level of private firearms ownership.

as for the video games and movies argument in 1966? a student climbed a tower in Texas University and with a rifle killed 16 people and in total shot more than 30...

Sparko1030
04-16-2007, 09:42 PM
So you want to give training to the people purchasing the firearms, not only do they have a gun but now they know how to shoot it accurately, lol...
A simple test wont deter people who want to purchase a gun to kill..

:rolleyes: Yes. as a matter of fact I would like everyone to pass a safety and useage test before they would be able to by a gun of any kind. Along with a a background check. I'm not if favor of a complete ban on firearms. I know too many people who use them for hunting and sport and don't think it is right to bann them completely. Besides, here in the US, a complete bann would impossible to ever achieve so educating users is the next best thing. And as I mentioned, the availability of firearms is only a piece of the puzzle to this problem. (I can't believe I'm the one defending the ownership of guns here. In the US my views are very unpatriotic according to the NRA :lol: )

edit: I have to add that I dont' like conceal and carry laws like we have in MN now, but I have to admit, there has been no increase in gun deaths related to it since it went into effect serveral years ago. We do have to restrict who can buy firearms and who and how they are sold. But like I've mentioned, the causes of the tradegy today is much more complex then just gun laws.

SwiSha
04-16-2007, 10:06 PM
this world is fucked up

R.Federer
04-16-2007, 10:19 PM
How terrible :eek:

Hopefully this will get them to take another look at gun control

Louche
04-16-2007, 10:23 PM
ABC has a picture of a website that has overnight delivery of ammunition - UPS.
Seems strange that this is possible.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/04/16/ammo3_web_nr.jpg

SwiSha
04-16-2007, 10:23 PM
How terrible :eek:

Hopefully this will get them to take another look at gun control

yeah right

Pfloyd
04-16-2007, 10:31 PM
Being America born, I think I can say this. Without meaning any offense to anyone of American Citizenship, I'd have to say that although Michael Moore is not always the best person to use as a refrence when talking about anything, he hit the nail in the head with his "Bolwing for Columbine' documentary. Compared to other first world countries, the gun fatilities that happen in the U.S are astonishing. There is simply no solid "aha!" aspect that one can point to as an explanation to all the violence that happens in the U.S, which was awfuly and cruely "perfectly" demonstarted in the shootings that happened today.

Truly awful and unexplainable. My condolonces to those who have to bear with the haunting memories of those lost today.

alfonsojose
04-16-2007, 10:34 PM
And in colombia its easier to get a handgun than an abortion :smash:

Well, Colombia is a poor , third world country :shrug:

alfonsojose
04-16-2007, 10:36 PM
Being America born, I think I can say this. Without meaning any offense to anyone of American Citizenship, I'd have to say that although Michael Moore is not always the best person to use as a refrence when talking about anything, he hit the nail in the head with his "Bolwing for Columbine' documentary. Compared to other first world countries, the gun fatilities that happen in the U.S are astonishing. There is simply no solid "aha!" aspect that one can point to as an explanation to all the violence that happens in the U.S, which was awfuly and cruely "perfectly" demonstarted in the shootings that happened today.

Truly awful and unexplainable. My condolonces to those who have to bear with the haunting memories of lost today.

:worship:

R.Federer
04-16-2007, 10:44 PM
yeah right

You never know -- it might be a BIG talking point in the upcoming elections. McCain, is he also pro-guns? I think Guiliani is anti-NRA, he might score huge points from the middle of the road Republican voters.

Scotso
04-16-2007, 10:57 PM
This is just a few miles from me. It's horrible. :sad:

All those people. :(

This is also going to hurt our area majorly in the years to come. People applying to Tech will probably drop, and that will have a bad empact on us economically.

Just a horrible situation.

RickDaStick
04-16-2007, 11:02 PM
Very sad

Washa Koroleva
04-16-2007, 11:04 PM
This is terrible... and it doesn't seem to stop... as if they copy what they've seen on the news.

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 11:05 PM
You never know -- it might be a BIG talking point in the upcoming elections. McCain, is he also pro-guns? I think Guiliani is anti-NRA, he might score huge points from the middle of the road Republican voters.

why put in place laws that have not worked in other places, or in the US?

Check my post in page 1 or 2 with different sources, I dont want to repost them...

Its like the US ban of handguns on airplanes that even prevented pilots from carrying weapons for protection, who knows what could of been prevented if airlines would of had armed pilots...

Oh and just 2 years ago:
BLACKSBURG - Virginia Tech's recent action against a student caught carrying a gun to class could draw unwanted attention from groups already angry about firearms restrictions on public college campuses.

University officials confirmed that, earlier this semester, campus police approached a student found to be carrying a concealed handgun to class. The unnamed student was not charged with any crimes because he holds a state-issued permit allowing him to carry a concealed gun. But the student could face disciplinary action from the university for violating its policy prohibiting "unauthorized possession, storage or control" of firearms on campus... I dont have a problem with the college banning guns in fact I agree with that measure, but presumably many more students have attended college with a concealed weapon and 0 shootings resulted from that, but imagine if there had been an armed student in that hall today... sort of like the off duty police officer who killed an 18 yr old on a murder rampage a couple of months ago in a Salt Lake City mall...

R.Federer
04-16-2007, 11:26 PM
why put in place laws that have not worked in other places, or in the US?


I think there is as much evidence that guns do lead to crime as the opposite John Lott kind of "research" that proves the opposite.

savesthedizzle
04-16-2007, 11:44 PM
This is just a few miles from me. It's horrible. :sad:

All those people. :(

This is also going to hurt our area majorly in the years to come. People applying to Tech will probably drop, and that will have a bad empact on us economically.

Just a horrible situation.

I was thinking about that actually. Many high school seniors are still making up their minds about where to go and if I was torn between VTech and another school, I would probably pick the other school now. And it's not the school's fault. It's an awesome school, but it would be in the back of your mind every time you had class in that building. :sad: But like I said, Virginia Tech is a great school and I'm sure they will rebound.


I dont have a problem with the college banning guns in fact I agree with that measure, but presumably many more students have attended college with a concealed weapon and 0 shootings resulted from that, but imagine if there had been an armed student in that hall today... sort of like the off duty police officer who killed an 18 yr old on a murder rampage a couple of months ago in a Salt Lake City mall...

Semi-related but semi offtopic...

For the last year or two Syracuse University was having a huge debate about whether campus security should be armed or not. On one side many students didn't want guns on campus and did not want incidents to happen where a security guard was trigger happy. But at the same time many people decided they felt safer with campus security having weapons so that if campus security came across the situation they would at least be able to defend themselves and have some sort of threatening presence if they had to intervene somewhere.

In the end we decided to have them be armed. On a day like today I'm sure Syracuse students feel glad that they did. It certainly wouldn't prevent a situation like this, but knowing that there are people stationed around campus who can respond and shoot back would help ease a student's mind today.

MisterQ
04-16-2007, 11:47 PM
This is just a few miles from me. It's horrible. :sad:

All those people. :(

This is also going to hurt our area majorly in the years to come. People applying to Tech will probably drop, and that will have a bad empact on us economically.

Just a horrible situation.

:sad: :hug:

I hope it won't affect enrollment or the regional economy too much. But there's no doubt that an event like this marks a school for years. Think of Kent State, for example...

zicofirol
04-16-2007, 11:51 PM
I think there is as much evidence that guns do lead to crime as the opposite John Lott kind of "research" that proves the opposite.

really what kind of evidence? do you mean evidence like this:


http://www.rkba.org/comment/brown/England.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3419941.stm
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/01/05/ixopinion.html
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-cost-of-gun-control.html

"even when the UK had the same gun laws as the US did, there was more murders by handguns in the US, so it must be something else than a simple gun ban that has caused this...

Oh and many latin american countries have much stricter gun laws than the US, yet their murder rates are higher, what gives? lol

ps. not that these results will change your mind, as we have seen feel good policy is always supported regardless of results...

or like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime

now I know Switzerland has strict controls on ammo and even the guns being loaded and who owns a gun, but I cant imagine a teenager or a killer to be too concerned about breaking the ammo laws if he is about to go on a rampage...

Besides this issue is also a rights issue, and the US Bill of rights clearly states: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Rogiman
04-17-2007, 12:00 AM
It seems the only places where people just wake up in the morning and shoot people in the streets right now are the USA, and Iraq...

MissPovaFan
04-17-2007, 12:08 AM
yes, because we all know that has turned out to be a great success, NOT!!

http://www.rkba.org/comment/brown/England.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3419941.stm
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/01/05/ixopinion.html
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-cost-of-gun-control.html

even when the UK had the same gun laws as the US did, there was more murders by handguns in the US, so it must be something else than a simple gun ban that has caused this...

Oh and many latin american countries have much stricter gun laws than the US, yet their murder rates are higher, what gives? lol

ps. not that these results will change your mind, as we have seen feel good policy is always supported regardless of results...

There certainly hasn't been any mass scale gun attack such as during Dunblane or Hunderford since the gun armstice. However within a country of 300 million is it really possible to regulate every single gun? I doubt it :sad:

For the last year or two Syracuse University was having a huge debate about whether campus security should be armed or not. On one side many students didn't want guns on campus and did not want incidents to happen where a security guard was trigger happy. But at the same time many people decided they felt safer with campus security having weapons so that if campus security came across the situation they would at least be able to defend themselves and have some sort of threatening presence if they had to intervene somewhere.

In the end we decided to have them be armed. On a day like today I'm sure Syracuse students feel glad that they did. It certainly wouldn't prevent a situation like this, but knowing that there are people stationed around campus who can respond and shoot back would help ease a student's mind today.

Yes I agree with you, police, security guards etc. definitely should have arms otherwise the massacre could have been ten times worse :sad:

In most of the World general police are armed but sadly in England they are not :(

LaTenista
04-17-2007, 12:15 AM
The radio said there are now 33 confirmed dead. :tears:

MissPovaFan
04-17-2007, 12:17 AM
The radio said there are now 33 confirmed dead. :tears:

It gets worse :sad:

GlennMirnyi
04-17-2007, 01:08 AM
Wow, really sad. Something must be done about this.

R.Federer
04-17-2007, 01:27 AM
really what kind of evidence? do you mean evidence like this:



or like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime

No I mean evidence in peer-reviewed journals. One is More Guns, More Crime
by a former U. Chicago professor in a journal called the Journal of Political Economy, which is a leading economics journal.

You are free to believe "research" online at Wikipedia and blogs, I choose not to.

Lee
04-17-2007, 01:31 AM
Now, they are not even sure the killing in the dorm and the killing in the Norris Hall are committed by the same gunman. :shrug:

Tennis Fool
04-17-2007, 03:04 AM
How terrible :eek:

Hopefully this will get them to take another look at gun control
Actually people are saying if the students had guns, they could have taken out the shooter, or prevented him from thinking of the act.

SushiMinimal
04-17-2007, 03:33 AM
how the hell is possible in usa that any guy just can easily purchase a gun and start killing people ???

it's like they don't know the new cultural society of this era

trixtah
04-17-2007, 04:01 AM
what the hell? we're having this discussion in this thread? You really think gun control is going to curb murderous intent? This is a damn tragedy, recognize it for what it is. Quantity of those murdered has no merit in this thread.

Statistics can be proven to show anything. You want to bring up statistics? Bring a reputable source especially in a topic as heatedly debated as gun control

Some added information...don't quote me on this because it's from a friend there so it may in fact be notoriously wrong, but I heard he had killed his girlfriend and her ex previous to going on the rampage

anyway...sad sad stuff...

Sparko1030
04-17-2007, 04:06 AM
I just heard on the news that reports have the gunman as being a Chinese national in the US on a student visa. This has not been confirmed though.

trixtah
04-17-2007, 04:08 AM
I just heard on the news that reports have the gunman as being a Chinese national in the US on a student visa. This has not been confirmed though.

it's true--reportedly from shanghai. What about it? Sadly, this is only going to exacerbate the race problem we are facing in the US especially at Vatech where asians are in the minority. What I have a problem with is the manner in which this was handled. A two hour delay between the shootings and class continued? A big "what the fuck" is in order.

TMJordan
04-17-2007, 04:10 AM
Why couldn't you have just killed yourself you senseless piece of crap.

Too many pieces of crap are allowed in civil countires now-a-days, the government has too be careful about who is allowed to live in their country.

This truly makes me sick and I wish someone could have just stabbed him in the back or somthing and then had people taking turnes kicking him in the head with steel toe boats.

RIP too all who were brutely murdered for no reason what so ever. :sad:

trixtah
04-17-2007, 04:12 AM
Why couldn't you have just killed yourself you senseless piece of crap.

Too many pieces of crap are allowed in civil countires now-a-days, the government has too be careful about who is allowed to live in their country.

This truly makes me sick and I wish someone could have just stabbed him in the back or somthing and then had people taking turnes kicking him in the head with steel toe boats.

RIP too all who were brutely murdered for no reason what so ever. :sad:

seriously, *****? An incident that happens to concern an asian and you go all up in arms saying how you want to murder him? How are you any better?

Also, you're talking about the US being civil? Off the top of my head the news seems to have stated that marines went on a rampage, driving down a stretch of road killing innocents, including children after being attacked. This is relatively civil compared to some of the things that go on in the "civil" US. Within the US, there are millions of isolated incidents concerning "white" racists.It's not who we let into the country, don't you get it? Within all peoples, there are psycho mother fuckers like this.

TMJordan
04-17-2007, 04:18 AM
seriously, *****? An incident that happens to concern an asian and you go all up in arms saying how you want to murder him? How are you any better?

I am not talking about this situation, but in general too many people from lesser countires move to more civil countires and start shit, and of course I would want to murder this guy if I had a chance, he killed over 30 innocent people, if I had a chance to take him out, you better believe I would.

trixtah
04-17-2007, 04:21 AM
I am not talking about this situation, but in general too many people from lesser countires move to more civil countires and start shit, and of course I would want to murder this guy if I had a chance, he killed over 30 innocent people, if I had a chance to take him out, you better believe I would.

ok, well i guess I misunderstood you then. Of course if I had the chance to kill this guy before this incident, I would...but...well damn.

edit: forget it, I wouldn't lay a finger on this guy. He hadn't committed a crime yet and I'm coming off as a hypocrite.

TMJordan
04-17-2007, 04:24 AM
ok, well i guess I misunderstood you then. Of course if I had the chance to kill this guy before this incident, I would...but...well damn.

Yeah, somtimes I come off a little strong, but it's just impulse, situations like this really make me sick.

Lee
04-17-2007, 04:27 AM
Yeah, somtimes I come off a little strong, but it's just impulse, situations like this really make me sick.

That's why we need to learn to control our impulsive behaviour.

This killing may be the result of an out-of-control impulsive behaviour.

TMJordan
04-17-2007, 04:30 AM
That's why we need to learn to control our impulsive behaviour.

This killing may be the result of an out-of-control impulsive behaviour.

That is a good point, I appologize for the comments previously made.

Shahar26
04-17-2007, 04:37 AM
how the hell is possible in usa that any guy just can easily purchase a gun and start killing people ???

it's like they don't know the new cultural society of this era

There are many places in the US where you can buy alcohol and guns at the same place, I don't get it :confused:

trixtah
04-17-2007, 04:45 AM
There are many places in the US where you can buy alcohol and guns at the same place, I don't get it :confused:

...and?

I like your sig, Lee...

Metis
04-17-2007, 04:47 AM
What a terrible tragedy!

It seems that it was well-planned too, because the police found the front doors to the Norris building chained shut.

Sparko1030
04-17-2007, 04:53 AM
it's true--reportedly from shanghai. What about it? Sadly, this is only going to exacerbate the race problem we are facing in the US especially at Vatech where asians are in the minority. What I have a problem with is the manner in which this was handled. A two hour delay between the shootings and class continued? A big "what the fuck" is in order.


Although you won't believe me since you've already judged me, I meant nothing other than to report the latest I'd heard. If he had been from Sweden it would have been reported too and I would have posted it. It is relevant in that the person who comitted these killings wasn't a product of US culture all their life-that is to say perhaps this kind of killings is not only a US problem. I meant nothing racist by posting it. If it is a fact, it will come out so you can accuse a lot of people of being racists and I'm sure that will make your day. :rolleyes:

savesthedizzle
04-17-2007, 04:56 AM
I finally was able to find out that my one friend who goes to Virginia Tech is okay (on Facebook of all places). I was a bit worried since I knew he studied German in high school and one of the classes attacked was a German class, but thank goodness he's okay and all of his friends are okay as well.

TMJordan
04-17-2007, 04:59 AM
I finally was able to find out that my one friend who goes to Virginia Tech is okay (on Facebook of all places). I was a bit worried since I knew he studied German in high school and one of the classes attacked was a German class, but thank goodness he's okay and all of his friends are okay as well.

Thanks goodness.

I heard on CNN that facebook was being used by the students as a way to communicate.

Lee
04-17-2007, 05:00 AM
Although you won't believe me since you've already judged me, I meant nothing other than to report the latest I'd heard. If he had been from Sweden it would have been reported too and I would have posted it. It is relevant in that the person who comitted these killings wasn't a product of US culture all their life-that is to say perhaps this kind of killings is not only a US problem. I meant nothing racist by posting it. If it is a fact, it will come out so you can accuse a lot of people of being racists and I'm sure that will make your day. :rolleyes:

I think it's a misunderstanding. I am not sure that's what trixtah meant.

It's a very sad incident and I hope everyone focus on why and how it happened and what we, human beings in general, can do in order to prevent something like this to happen again.

savesthedizzle
04-17-2007, 05:01 AM
Thanks goodness.

I heard on CNN that facebook was being used by the students as a way to communicate.

It seems to be that way. There are several groups springing up. One being something along the lines of "I'm at vtech and i'm okay" and another one that I joined named something like "our prayers are with you VT"

TMJordan
04-17-2007, 05:04 AM
It seems to be that way. There are several groups springing up. One being something along the lines of "I'm at vtech and i'm okay" and another one that I joined named something like "our prayers are with you VT"

Just so sad :sad: Hopefully your friend didnt lose anyone too close too him :sad:

trixtah
04-17-2007, 05:07 AM
Although you won't believe me since you've already judged me, I meant nothing other than to report the latest I'd heard. If he had been from Sweden it would have been reported too and I would have posted it. It is relevant in that the person who comitted these killings wasn't a product of US culture all their life-that is to say perhaps this kind of killings is not only a US problem. I meant nothing racist by posting it. If it is a fact, it will come out so you can accuse a lot of people of being racists and I'm sure that will make your day. :rolleyes:

...what? I'm not sure you follow me here. Like Lee said, I think you misunderstood me. I haven't accused you of anything--I think you're the one who has judged me from my antics in GM? In any case, what I was just stating was my opinion on the fact that he is asian. I don't think the "rolleyes" emoticon is necessary, especially in a thread of this gravity

(btw, anyone reading--please don't base your opinion on me based on what I say in GM :p It's just a fun release of energy after a long day)

Sparko1030
04-17-2007, 05:08 AM
I think it's a misunderstanding. I am not sure that's what trixtah meant.


If so, no worries then. :)

Sparko1030
04-17-2007, 05:14 AM
...what? I'm not sure you follow me here. Like Lee said, I think you misunderstood me. I haven't accused you of anything--I think you're the one who has judged me from my antics in GM? In any case, what I was just stating was my opinion on the fact that he is asian. I don't think the "rolleyes" emoticon is necessary, especially in a thread of this gravity

(btw, anyone reading--please don't base your opinion on me based on what I say in GM :p It's just a fun release of energy after a long day)



Believe it or not I must be the only person who hasn't read your stuff on GM. I don't go there very much these days. Sorry if I misunderstood you. Your "what about it" phrase was what made me think you thought I shouldn't have posted it and that I did because he was Chinese. Your use of "WTF" at the end set me off. And please, don't lecture me on the use of the rolleyes. I am FULLY aware of the gravity and horror of today.

trixtah
04-17-2007, 05:19 AM
Believe it or not I must be the only person who hasn't read your stuff on GM. I don't go there very much these days. Sorry if I misunderstood you. Your "what about it" phrase was what made me think you thought I shouldn't have posted it and that I did because he was Chinese. Your use of "WTF" at the end set me off. And please, don't lecture me on the use of the rolleyes. I am FULLY aware of the gravity and horror of today.

ah, yeah. That wtf was geared more toward how they responded to it. Anyway..looks like all the breaking developments are done and the only things from here on are going to be the small details. I'm scared to wake up in the morning and see the backlash that the asian society is going to get for this.

(Oh, my time on GM consists mainly of debunking Glenn's fact-less bs)

Sparko1030
04-17-2007, 05:25 AM
ah, yeah. That wtf was geared more toward how they responded to it. Anyway..looks like all the breaking developments are done and the only things from here on are going to be the small details. I'm scared to wake up in the morning and see the backlash that the asian society is going to get for this.

(Oh, my time on GM consists mainly of debunking Glenn's fact-less bs)


So we finally understand eachother. :) I dont' read Glenn's stuff either so I couldn't comment on that.

I hope you are wrong about the backlash but it is all too possible. It would be one more tragic result from today.

Kitty de Sade
04-17-2007, 05:28 AM
So unbelievably awful- my heart and prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones. No words..:sad: ..

R.Federer
04-17-2007, 05:44 AM
Actually people are saying if the students had guns, they could have taken out the shooter, or prevented him from thinking of the act.

Well, that is a debate about gun control as well. Not all gun control debates lead to the conclusion that guns need to be limited.

And I can't quite understand what you/other people mean by that. You mean, he would show up at the classroom, and the other students would have been armed? Like just carrying arms to an everyday classroom? Huh?

AsianSensation
04-17-2007, 05:53 AM
Thankfully all of my friends at VTech are ok.

Sadly though, one of my friends at my school lost someone very close to him :tears:. I ask that you all keep him and all those affected in your prayers.

~EMiLiTA~
04-17-2007, 08:35 AM
horrible horrible stuff...so much senseless killing :sad:

thoughts and prayers to all affected..

Bilbo
04-17-2007, 08:46 AM
Bush won't change the gun laws he said. What an idiot he is. Here they would react immidiately. Too bad Bush wasn't under the victims.

fadou
04-17-2007, 09:03 AM
All my condolences to the victims' families and friends :sad:
it's a tragedy but I think the US governement should ban the guns or at least limite the gun possession
i've never been in US so maybe i'm wrong: i don't know what it is the best solution to resolve this problem...

trixtah
04-17-2007, 09:10 AM
Bush won't change the gun laws he said. What an idiot he is. Here they would react immidiately. Too bad Bush wasn't under the victims.

stop. just stop. you don't know what you're talking about. gun control won't change murderous intent--that's all that needs to be said here. Classes continued after the initial shooting--was this better than attempting to clear out 26k students? We'll never know, but what we do know is that gun control isn't what's at fault here.

Bilbo
04-17-2007, 09:16 AM
stop. just stop. you don't know what you're talking about. gun control won't change murderous intent--that's all that needs to be said here. Classes continued after the initial shooting--was this better than attempting to clear out 26k students? We'll never know, but what we do know is that gun control isn't what's at fault here.

so that's the reason why this happens in every country, huh? and i thought this would be a US phenomenon.

didn't the US has the weakest gun laws of all democratic countries in the world?

almouchie
04-17-2007, 09:19 AM
the number has risen to 33 dead
& still not enough info available
& students locked in dorms

its surreal that such things happen & no one can make a quick reaction to stop it
seeing the number of SWAT & cops,
it looked like a raid
condolesnces to all those who who died & their families & friends

Winston's Human
04-17-2007, 11:56 AM
Bush won't change the gun laws he said. What an idiot he is. Here they would react immidiately. Too bad Bush wasn't under the victims.

Virginia gun laws prohibit the carrying of guns on college campuses.

Joyce_23
04-17-2007, 01:01 PM
stop. just stop. you don't know what you're talking about. gun control won't change murderous intent--that's all that needs to be said here. Classes continued after the initial shooting--was this better than attempting to clear out 26k students? We'll never know, but what we do know is that gun control isn't what's at fault here.

Gun control wouldn't change murderous intent... that's right but it would make it a hell of a lot harder obtaining a murderous weapon whenever you feel like it. The fact is that anyone can obtain a gun in the States whenever they feel like it and it creates situations like these, where people innocently die because someone loses it.
You can never change that people will have intentions to murder but the least you can do is making it as hard as possible for people to get their hands on weapons. The fact that the American government won't even consider that possibility is too crazy for words.

bluesky_rachel
04-17-2007, 01:15 PM
this is really sad and horrible :sad:
why people in usa can easily purchase a gun?this makes me angry.:(

Neely
04-17-2007, 01:34 PM
Bush won't change the gun laws he said. What an idiot he is. Here they would react immidiately. Too bad Bush wasn't under the victims.
Did anything change after the school shootings in Germany? We have around 10 million legally registered weapons (of course not counting blank or gas pistols) in our country, did this number decrease since then? Or do they anything more to check the import of illegal weapons?

And as we saw in our last big school shooting in Erfurt or Emsdetten, the killer just went to an internet auction and bought it there.

guille&tati4life
04-17-2007, 01:51 PM
yes, because we all know that has turned out to be a great success, NOT!!

http://www.rkba.org/comment/brown/England.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3419941.stm
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/01/05/ixopinion.html
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/02/high-cost-of-gun-control.html

even when the UK had the same gun laws as the US did, there was more murders by handguns in the US, so it must be something else than a simple gun ban that has caused this...

Oh and many latin american countries have much stricter gun laws than the US, yet their murder rates are higher, what gives? lol

ps. not that these results will change your mind, as we have seen feel good policy is always supported regardless of results...


C'mon. Some crimes are committed only because people go momentarily crazy (anger, grief etc). Instead of just taking a gun out their pocket, they'd more often than not have to go, get one illegally and go to do whatever they are doing with it. At the very least that gives them more time to calm down.
Gun laws won't stop gun crime but they are likely to reduce it.

El Legenda
04-17-2007, 02:34 PM
Bush won't change the gun laws he said. What an idiot he is. Here they would react immidiately. Too bad Bush wasn't under the victims.


guns laws wont stop from people easily getting guns, did the prohibition stop people from drinking?

El Legenda
04-17-2007, 02:36 PM
from CNN.com

Shooter was "Asian male" dorm resident, Virginia Tech President Charles Steger says
"He was one of our students," Steger says
Steger not sure second gunman was involved
"The injuries were just amazing," doctor says

Denaon
04-17-2007, 02:37 PM
What amazes me is the fact that there are people that believe that owning a gun is part of their rights :eek: IMHO That's where the thing starts to get screwed up.

Julio1974
04-17-2007, 02:41 PM
What amazes me is the fact that there are people that believe that owning a gun is part of their rights :eek: IMHO That's where the thing starts to get screwed up.

Read the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and you'll understand why.

El Legenda
04-17-2007, 02:52 PM
Police have named a student who shot dead at least 30 people at a US university as Cho Seung-hui, a 23-year-old from South Korea....

alfonsojose
04-17-2007, 02:58 PM
really what kind of evidence? do you mean evidence like this:



or like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_crime

now I know Switzerland has strict controls on ammo and even the guns being loaded and who owns a gun, but I cant imagine a teenager or a killer to be too concerned about breaking the ammo laws if he is about to go on a rampage...

Besides this issue is also a rights issue, and the US Bill of rights clearly states: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Wikipedia :rolleyes:

SwiSha
04-17-2007, 03:03 PM
Again

this world is just fucked up

Denaon
04-17-2007, 03:06 PM
Read the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and you'll understand why.

I don't mean just the US

tangerine_dream
04-17-2007, 03:56 PM
Although you won't believe me since you've already judged me, I meant nothing other than to report the latest I'd heard. If he had been from Sweden it would have been reported too and I would have posted it. It is relevant in that the person who comitted these killings wasn't a product of US culture all their life-that is to say perhaps this kind of killings is not only a US problem. I meant nothing racist by posting it. If it is a fact, it will come out so you can accuse a lot of people of being racists and I'm sure that will make your day. :rolleyes:
Good point. The student was from South Korea. Maybe the US should also curb letting in unstable foreigners as well as guns? (that was sarcasm directed at the "American gun culture promotes this kind of violence" contingent)

zicofirol
04-17-2007, 04:04 PM
Gun control wouldn't change murderous intent... that's right but it would make it a hell of a lot harder obtaining a murderous weapon whenever you feel like it. The fact is that anyone can obtain a gun in the States whenever they feel like it and it creates situations like these, where people innocently die because someone loses it.
You can never change that people will have intentions to murder but the least you can do is making it as hard as possible for people to get their hands on weapons. The fact that the American government won't even consider that possibility is too crazy for words.


Not anyone can obtain a gun whenever they feel like it every state has their own laws and even cities have their own laws, some have very restricted gun laws, second, if you think it would be harder to get a gun if they where legal then I suggest you try and purchase drugs next time you come to the US, you should have no problems buying those illegal substances...


Oh and if he was international student I am not sure he could of purchased the gun legally...

zicofirol
04-17-2007, 04:08 PM
Wikipedia :rolleyes:

and here is the source wikipedia uses :rolleyes: http://guncite.com/swissgun.html

the cat
04-17-2007, 04:17 PM
This is such a tragic story. :sad: And it seems like the Virginia police and the Virginia Tech hierarchy may have made some strategical mistakes along the way in this tragedy. After the first shooting was reported the entire school should have suspended class and the students, teachers and everyone else at the university should have been given the option of vacating the premisis. But that didn't happen and the rest is history. Terrible history.

I'm sick and tired of gutless people like this murdering fiend Cho Seung-hui who are so unhappy in life that they want to kill themslelves but don't do it until they kill many others first. :mad: What could be so bad to make him do this? His girlfriend left him or wanted to break up with him? :rolleyes: What? :scratch:

Somehow some way over a period of time the United States of America needs to make it impossible for anyone to carry or buy guns who are not in law enforcement. It's just awful this mass murderer and many others like him can routinely go out and buy guns. :scratch:

my0118
04-17-2007, 04:23 PM
Not anyone can obtain a gun whenever they feel like it every state has their own laws and even cities have their own laws, some have very restricted gun laws, second, if you think it would be harder to get a gun if they where legal then I suggest you try and purchase drugs next time you come to the US, you should have no problems buying those illegal substances...


Oh and if he was international student I am not sure he could of purchased the gun legally...

I searched for his identity and he's an immigrant who immigrated to US when he was young.. he's also considered as an international student? I'm just asking.
anyway it's such a shame that he was a korean. I just hope people don't prejudice the korean is a bad or dangerous people.

Sjengster
04-17-2007, 04:46 PM
There are nutcases in every country and always will be, people who apparently want to leave their mark on the world by taking as many lives as they can with them when they go. But surely having laws that allow such people easier access to weapons of mass murder can't be right? That's just asking for trouble. Saying that the right to carry arms is enshrined in the Constitution is a ludicrous argument, if the status quo in 1776 were still comprehensively adhered to today then both our countries would be running a thriving slave trade; but amazingly enough, times change. "And we change with them" is the second half of the Latin proverb, I believe, but that seems to be a rather optimistic assessment of human nature.

R.Federer
04-17-2007, 05:05 PM
I searched for his identity and he's an immigrant who immigrated to US when he was young.. he's also considered as an international student? I'm just asking.
anyway it's such a shame that he was a korean. I just hope people don't prejustice the korean is a bad or dangerous people.

I cannot imagine that people would pre-judge all Koreans based on this isolated incident. I don't think it will happen at all. People did not judge all American highschool kids after Columbine.

R.Federer
04-17-2007, 05:07 PM
There are nutcases in every country and always will be, people who apparently want to leave their mark on the world by taking as many lives as they can with them when they go. But surely having laws that allow such people easier access to weapons of mass murder can't be right? That's just asking for trouble. Saying that the right to carry arms is enshrined in the Constitution is a ludicrous argument, if the status quo in 1776 were still comprehensively adhered to today then both our countries would be running a thriving slave trade; but amazingly enough, times change. "And we change with them" is the second half of the Latin proverb, I believe, but that seems to be a rather optimistic assessment of human nature.

The Bill of Rights is just an easy crutch. How many people who support carrying guns support all other parts of the Constitution?
Very few. There are indeed people who want to carry weapons because of their inalienable rights, but these are few.
The best of them are in it for the money, with the gun lobby.

SwiSha
04-17-2007, 05:11 PM
I searched for his identity and he's an immigrant who immigrated to US when he was young.. he's also considered as an international student? I'm just asking.
anyway it's such a shame that he was a korean. I just hope people don't prejudice the korean is a bad or dangerous people.

USA is full of immigrants, your mother can be German your father from Italy , you would be still considered as an american if you live and especially born there

dont think people will judge south koreans

zicofirol
04-17-2007, 05:45 PM
There are nutcases in every country and always will be, people who apparently want to leave their mark on the world by taking as many lives as they can with them when they go. But surely having laws that allow such people easier access to weapons of mass murder can't be right? That's just asking for trouble. Saying that the right to carry arms is enshrined in the Constitution is a ludicrous argument, if the status quo in 1776 were still comprehensively adhered to today then both our countries would be running a thriving slave trade; but amazingly enough, times change. "And we change with them" is the second half of the Latin proverb, I believe, but that seems to be a rather optimistic assessment of human nature.

Well then we should do away with freedom of speech as well right? and right to a jury and a trial etc. etc. That is a very bad argument to make besides slavery was not legal it was left up to the states and some states had made it illegal to have slaves, this is a very complicated issue and it was at the time I am sure you dont know enough on the subject to use it as a debate point

People have a right to self defense and that right includes owning a gun for protection..

The Bill of Rights is just an easy crutch. How many people who support carrying guns support all other parts of the Constitution?
Very few. There are indeed people who want to carry weapons because of their inalienable rights, but these are few.
The best of them are in it for the money, with the gun lobby.
The constitution itself is not supported by government one cant expect the people to support it, that does not mean americans should not strive to actually follow the consitution.

Most people carry guns either to hunt or self defense... and the right to carry guns was also put in place as a way of protection from the state, I would say that is as valid if not more valid today than it was 200 years ago, the right to have guns for self defense was a given...

zicofirol
04-17-2007, 06:19 PM
here is partial list of victims, including a holocaust survivor, who blocked the door and told his students to jump from the window...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting.victims/index.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6564075.stm

Winston's Human
04-17-2007, 06:42 PM
The Second Amendment, like all the other amendments in the Bill of Rights, is designed to protect the rights of individuals from an over-reaching federal government.

Jim Jones
04-17-2007, 07:21 PM
I searched for his identity and he's an immigrant who immigrated to US when he was young.. he's also considered as an international student? I'm just asking.
anyway it's such a shame that he was a korean. I just hope people don't prejudice the korean is a bad or dangerous people.

He is international since he is not a U.S. citizen. A chinese who lives in Korea and who does not have Korean citizenship is also considered internatonal.

USA is full of immigrants, your mother can be German your father from Italy , you would be still considered as an american if you live and especially born there

dont think people will judge south koreans
So people can judge Americans but not Koreans? :confused:

trixtah
04-17-2007, 07:59 PM
I'm not even going to argue on gun control because that's not what this topic should be about. Every forum that is discussing this has more or less degenerated to such an argument at some point during. If you want to debate about gun control, you're never going to win--simply go on google, find some reputable sources, and actually open your eyes to those that disagree with you.

@topic
so..turns out he's korean and a loner eh? Even though his ethnicity has nothing to do with the argument, it's sad that he had to turn out to be in the minority.

he looks kind of psycho to me http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html

To the holocaust survivor...what a hero...:( holding the door for his students to escape.:rain: :sobbing:

justClaudia
04-17-2007, 08:14 PM
This is not America against the World, or the World against America, it could've happened anywhere, like it happened in Germany in 2002 for instance.

I find it quite sad that people blame a whole country for what happened. And I've seen people, today, in my daily life even, doing it. The sentence 'this only happens in America' I've heard it, and it's sad, I think it's sad. Sure the gun law debate is open, and it should be discussed, even though I don't think Mr Bush is much interested in changing anythin.

Right now I can only think of family's and friend's, and even Cho's parents ..who not only lost a child, but also are left with the murderer word to deal with.

Voo de Mar
04-17-2007, 09:13 PM
This killer of Korea had strong depression and wanted to be "famous for 15 minutes" :sad:

zicofirol
04-17-2007, 09:25 PM
This killer of Korea had strong depression and wanted to be "famous for 15 minutes" :sad:

As I said post ago, the only thing that could of been done was look at for signs that the student was a psychopath or had some serious issues, as it turns out many of his teachers had conernes one even went to the english department head to see what could be done with the student, also he was refereed to the counselor, his fellow students said his writing and stories where very disturbing and they "joked that he could be a school shooter"... Seems to me that the signs where there, but that is not to blame them as its hard to imagine a student will actually do this...

MarieS
04-17-2007, 09:36 PM
I cannot believe what I'm reading :eek:. The history of school shootings in America goes back to 1966 and this is the first time an immigrant was involved ( an immigrant by the way who has lived in the US since the age of 8). You simply can't deny the fact that school shootings are a uniquely American phenomenon...Of course, curbing immigrants could solve any problem :shrug:. If the founding fathers had the same foresight centuries ago and barred the entry of immigrants in the constitution, we wouldn't have Columbine for example because there would be no shooters. Hell, there would be no one to shoot. Problem solved. :cool:

Voo de Mar
04-17-2007, 09:47 PM
Sarcasm or not, the murderer has been living in the US as a legal resident since he was eight years old, and most of his formative years have been spent in the US. ( http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/04/17/vtech_korea/ )

This is not a case of some "foreigner" coming to the US and perpetrating a crime, this is someone who grew into an adult here. Technically he does not have citizenship, but he's lived in the US as a legal resident longer than he has ever lived in Korea, and he's a product of OUR society, not Korean society.

That's all I wanted to say - I don't want to get involved in this discussion here but I felt it was important to point out that this criminal isn't exactly some "foreigner." Contrary to what most of the media and some of the people in this thread have been implying, this murder has nothing to do with the man's nationality, it has to do with the fact that he was a disturbed individual. You'd never see this kind of racial, provincial speculation if the shooter had been white.


I agree. Nationality in this case doesn't matter. In America the similar tragedies have happened in the past and a killer often was an US citizen. This is a problem of dusky psyche of human being and legal accessibility to the gun.

trixtah
04-17-2007, 10:42 PM
more news to support that he was indeed a psychopath. Apparently, he wrote macabre plays and students long suspected that he would do something like this.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html

marti_228
04-17-2007, 10:53 PM
Does it matter where he was born?
He was crazy and the society in general does not help those kind of people, it gives a gun to them. In some bankas you can open an account an instead of getting an ipod you get a gun. That's crazy.
I think the US needs to change their way of thinking, if not, more of these kind of tragedies will keep happening. People should only have a gun to hunt or for a collection, but not to defend yourself, that's why the police exist. The US is 1st world country, it should be able to protect their citizens.

R.Federer
04-17-2007, 10:54 PM
Great post. One definitely gets the sense that the media is playing up the foreigner South Korea angle a bit more than they should, for someone raised since 8 in the US. He is indeed a product of the US education system and cultural system.
Let's wait to see what he left in his vitriolic note -- I am suspecting there will be pointers to the marginalization immigrant/not native kids can sometimes feel in high schools or college here.
I suspect it will turn out he was so pushed into a corner like those American-born American-raised Columbine killers were, that he snapped.

Sarcasm or not, the murderer has been living in the US as a legal resident since he was eight years old, and most of his formative years have been spent in the US. ( http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/04/17/vtech_korea/ )

This is not a case of some "foreigner" coming to the US and perpetrating a crime, this is someone who grew into an adult here. Technically he does not have citizenship, but he's lived in the US as a legal resident longer than he has ever lived in Korea, and he's a product of OUR society, not Korean society.

That's all I wanted to say - I don't want to get involved in this discussion here but I felt it was important to point out that this criminal isn't exactly some "foreigner." Contrary to what most of the media and some of the people in this thread have been implying, this murder has nothing to do with the man's nationality, it has to do with the fact that he was a disturbed individual. You'd never see this kind of racial, provincial speculation if the shooter had been white.

trixtah
04-17-2007, 11:33 PM
Read this if you want to look inside this boy's mind. A short but very shitty and very disturbing play.

http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/richard-mcbeef-cover-page/20070417134109990001

entitled "richard mcbeef"

tennisace
04-17-2007, 11:46 PM
Read the Second Amendment to the US Constitution and you'll understand why.'

The Supreme Court in 'Miller' ruled that the right to bear arms does not include hand guns as they are not "military" weapons. And in every case since Miller it has been been upheld.

Voo de Mar
04-17-2007, 11:46 PM
Read this if you want to look inside this boy's mind. A short but very shitty and very disturbing play.

http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/richard-mcbeef-cover-page/20070417134109990001

entitled "richard mcbeef"

Interesting.
Maybe this is simply short story from life of Cho Seung Hui when he was younger :shrug:
Maybe he was a victim of a pedophile and that was the main reason of his depression :confused:

Louche
04-18-2007, 01:05 AM
Another play he wrote was about 3 students plotting to kill a pedophile teacher, "Mr. Brownstone"...something there?

Cindy19
04-18-2007, 04:59 AM
He is international since he is not a U.S. citizen. A chinese who lives in Korea and who does not have Korean citizenship is also considered internatonal.


I was shocked about this news, :sad: but I have to say that he isnt Chinese, from his name, you can find it is a typical Korean name.

Sparko1030
04-18-2007, 06:02 AM
Sarcasm or not, the murderer has been living in the US as a legal resident since he was eight years old, and most of his formative years have been spent in the US. ( http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/04/17/vtech_korea/ )

This is not a case of some "foreigner" coming to the US and perpetrating a crime, this is someone who grew into an adult here. Technically he does not have citizenship, but he's lived in the US as a legal resident longer than he has ever lived in Korea, and he's a product of OUR society, not Korean society.

That's all I wanted to say - I don't want to get involved in this discussion here but I felt it was important to point out that this criminal isn't exactly some "foreigner." Contrary to what most of the media and some of the people in this thread have been implying, this murder has nothing to do with the man's nationality, it has to do with the fact that he was a disturbed individual. You'd never see this kind of racial, provincial speculation if the shooter had been white.

As a person who posted when I heard the killer may be Chinese, I thought it relevant at the time. Very little was known last night and the fact that he did live here since childhood had not yet come out. The reason I thought it relevant was because this kind of rampage seems to happen most often here in the States and I wonder why. When I thought he had been raised in a different culture I thought perhaps it wasn't just a US problem. As I posted earlier, had he been from Sweden, it would have been just as relavant as that he was Chinese,to me anyway. Now that more information has come out, it is no longer relevant, but I assure you my interest was not racist in nature.

refero*fervens
04-18-2007, 06:16 AM
Oh my :sad:

Apparently he was an english major? And I heard something about his teacher, who was troubled by his writings but obviously couldn't get anything done as he had not committed any crime? Those plays are very disturbing.

It really is a tragedy when something like this happens - and when you think about it, there is really little that can be done to prevent it :shrug: and such a thing could easily happen again in the future. While I personally think it should be more difficult to obtain a gun etc, it probably is not the main issue in this case. There's a real sad sense of helplessness around these kind of occurrences. What to do? My thoughts go out to all involved.

Sarcasm or not, the murderer has been living in the US as a legal resident since he was eight years old, and most of his formative years have been spent in the US. ( http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/04/17/vtech_korea/ )

This is not a case of some "foreigner" coming to the US and perpetrating a crime, this is someone who grew into an adult here. Technically he does not have citizenship, but he's lived in the US as a legal resident longer than he has ever lived in Korea, and he's a product of OUR society, not Korean society.

That's all I wanted to say - I don't want to get involved in this discussion here but I felt it was important to point out that this criminal isn't exactly some "foreigner." Contrary to what most of the media and some of the people in this thread have been implying, this murder has nothing to do with the man's nationality, it has to do with the fact that he was a disturbed individual. You'd never see this kind of racial, provincial speculation if the shooter had been white.

Good post. I do feel the 'race' angle has been played up a little bit.
Culture would be a bigger factor, but then that brings up all sorts of implications on America that I really can't comment on. In the end, it was an individual decision and an individual act.

zicofirol
04-18-2007, 03:45 PM
This guy was fucked up, he stalked 3 girls, they had the cops called once on him, his roomates said he was very weird and said disturbing things, then his english teachers though he was possibly a danger... If you put it all together then I am sure they could of seen something was not right, if anything he was a danger to himself, he even once commented to one of his roomates that "I might as well kill myself"...

I♥PsY@Mus!c
04-18-2007, 06:04 PM
I feel very sad in the whole day. :sobbing:

TMJordan
04-18-2007, 06:23 PM
Once two people are shot dead on a university campus and the suspect is still at large ther is no way you allow classes too go on. The school should have canceled all classes after the initial shooting.

Jim Jones
04-18-2007, 07:03 PM
I was shocked about this news, :sad: but I have to say that he isnt Chinese, from his name, you can find it is a typical Korean name.
I never said that he is Chinese. I was comparing a Korean citizen living in America with a Chinese citizen living in Korea. I used the comparision because some enlighted beings here are almost crying racism because he is referred to as a Korean instead as an American when he had only Korean citizenship. And yes I know quite a few Lee's who are Koreans.

Angle Queen
04-18-2007, 07:21 PM
Once two people are shot dead on a university campus and the suspect is still at large ther is no way you allow classes too go on. The school should have canceled all classes after the initial shooting.Easier said than done. The VaTech campus is huge with hundreds of classrooms...and thousands of students both on-campus and commuting. I'm sure as details come out, everyone will analyze and second-guess the police and university officials...but it doesn't change the fact that any university setting is ripe for this level of tragedy -- classrooms that hold hundreds and dormitories and sporting facilities that hold thousands.

And there's no sense in trying to make sense...of a senseless act.

Richard_from_Cal
04-18-2007, 07:24 PM
Interesting.
Maybe this is simply short story from life of Cho Seung Hui when he was younger :shrug:
Maybe he was a victim of a pedophile and that was the main reason of his depression :confused:Sounds like that's the 'note' to play.

Thing that really bugs me: the government molested children, in the MK Ultra program...after importing Mengele's minions...and that's where the Catholic Priests are judged, in Government courts ...for their pederasty??

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/paper_clip_dolls.htm
http://www.aches-mc.org/monarch.html
.
Of course, I've read only one of these two in entirety, and don't expect anybody to read either...

TMJordan
04-18-2007, 07:28 PM
Easier said than done. The VaTech campus is huge with hundreds of classrooms...and thousands of students both on-campus and commuting. I'm sure as details come out, everyone will analyze and second-guess the police and university officials...but it doesn't change the fact that any university setting is ripe for this level of tragedy -- classrooms that hold hundreds and dormitories and sporting facilities that hold thousands.

And there's no sense in trying to make sense...of a senseless act.

Yeah I guess you are right, but if I knew someone who just killed two people was at large on campus, I would have either locked my door and not left my room till any news was posted via radio or internet or went home if I was commuting. I know it is easy too say now after what happened but this just really makes me sick, how someone can go through with this.

Horatio Caine
04-18-2007, 10:20 PM
God, the news bulletins reveal more and more disturbing information on this guy's case...he was well-known to be a nutter :eek:

trixtah
04-18-2007, 11:50 PM
Yeah I guess you are right, but if I knew someone who just killed two people was at large on campus, I would have either locked my door and not left my room till any news was posted via radio or internet or went home if I was commuting. I know it is easy too say now after what happened but this just really makes me sick, how someone can go through with this.

If you're talking about the dorm rooms, yeah, but some of the classrooms didn't lock and that damn maniac shot people through the doors. O_O

It's actually very interesting hearing him ramble...there are quotes in this article from the package he sent NBC

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

Jim Jones
04-19-2007, 01:57 PM
Not much what he said made sense and he said it with mostly with a monotonous tone. The bottom line is that the guy was a loner and he did not enjoy life and decided not just to kill himself but to take down many others with him. what he says is just bs and I am not even sure he understands half of what he himself said.

Louche
04-19-2007, 04:57 PM
He was mentally ill. Some of his teachers realized it, as did others in 2005. He made fellow students uneasy and he bothered women.

He was judged not to be harmful to himself or others at the time.

He felt persecuted and decided to exact his revenge in the most devastating of ways.

It is all too clear in hindsight that this was someone who should have been removed from the university, but how does one know and what can be done with such people - and I'm sure there are more out there as I type?

Cindy19
04-19-2007, 05:07 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18186053/

gulzhan
04-19-2007, 05:19 PM
He was mentally ill. Some of his teachers realized it, as did others in 2005. He made fellow students uneasy and he bothered women.

He was judged not to be harmful to himself or others at the time.

He felt persecuted and decided to exact his revenge in the most devastating of ways.

It is all too clear in hindsight that this was someone who should have been removed from the university, but how does one know and what can be done with such people - and I'm sure there are more out there as I type?


it happens that people lose their minds, they are victims too....

the only important issue out of this story is when US will introduce the gun control... it's crazy in our time to have an opportunity just to go to a shop and buy a weapon :mad:

Cindy19
04-19-2007, 05:30 PM
He growed up in an eastern family, but he lived in a western world...

Louche
04-19-2007, 05:37 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

A familiar pattern. He was teased and laughed at.

Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

Cindy19
04-19-2007, 05:40 PM
Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.
wrong destination :haha:

Hewitt said the same sentence :eek:

Mistaflava
04-19-2007, 06:28 PM
it happens that people lose their minds, they are victims too....

the only important issue out of this story is when US will introduce the gun control... it's crazy in our time to have an opportunity just to go to a shop and buy a weapon :mad:


That sorry piece of shit was not a victim. How can you have the heart to say that?

tangerine_dream
04-19-2007, 06:28 PM
Thread title needs to be updated to 33 confirmed dead.

The Gunman was teased and picked on, former schoolmates say.
Poor baby. :baby: Wasn't everybody? :o So now the normal rites of childhood are being used as an excuse for murdering scores innocent people later in life? Give me a break.

edit
Now that the media has played right into this asshole's hands by turning him into a media star, playing his stupid home videos on TV, and making him a hero amongst the lunatic fringe, I wonder how long it will be before some copycat killer emerges to get his own fifteen minutes of fame and walks into school with Daddy's gun to "get even" with those kids who laughed at him during lunch in kindergarten.

*is thoroughly disgusted by the media saturation of this story*

Denaon
04-19-2007, 06:32 PM
changed the title....a bit..

jayjay
04-19-2007, 08:43 PM
*is thoroughly disgusted by the media saturation of this story*

Did you expect it to be any different?

justClaudia
04-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Thread title needs to be updated to 33 confirmed dead.


Poor baby. :baby: Wasn't everybody? :o So now the normal rites of childhood are being used as an excuse for murdering scores innocent people later in life? Give me a break.

edit
Now that the media has played right into this asshole's hands by turning him into a media star, playing his stupid home videos on TV, and making him a hero amongst the lunatic fringe, I wonder how long it will be before some copycat killer emerges to get his own fifteen minutes of fame and walks into school with Daddy's gun to "get even" with those kids who laughed at him during lunch in kindergarten.

*is thoroughly disgusted by the media saturation of this story*

And I wonder how many kids and teens actually relate to Cho's words in those videos. pure speculation here, but I'm guessing many. And that is very dangerous.

Many described this boy as a loner, as one who barely spoke. I'm not sure but I think it was his grandmother who said she even thought he was an autist when younger, because he would hardly speak. Ironic how the boy who barely said a word has now the whole world talking about him.

Sparko1030
04-19-2007, 10:17 PM
Teasing and bullying certainly do happen-some of it very damaging. We need to stress that to children begining at a young age treating others that way is not acceptable-and we need to also teach children how to handle it when it does happen and to deal with anger. AND we need to stop expecting schools to teach all this to our children. Certainly these lessons can be taught in schools but parents need to be at the forefront of teaching our children how to treat eachother with respect even if we don't like someone else or they're different.

I agree with tangerinedream about the foolish media. Yes, he got just what he wanted-they-not suprisingly-have played right into his murderous hands. People just like him are certainly taking notice.

zicofirol
04-19-2007, 10:25 PM
it happens that people lose their minds, they are victims too....

the only important issue out of this story is when US will introduce the gun control... it's crazy in our time to have an opportunity just to go to a shop and buy a weapon :mad:

bullshit he was a viticim, many of bullied and few react in this way, to say he was a victim is shit, he was a crazy motherfucker who deserved to be put in a mental insitution...

As for "the times" we live in, its the safest its been in america in about 50 years... crime rates are around record lows...

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 10:30 PM
I'm sorry I haven't been following this for the past day... I was told by Isa that he sent an email or letter to NBC explaining his actions? Is this true? If so in brief what were they?

Were they seriously related to him being bullied as a child?

RickDaStick
04-19-2007, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

What the hell is wrong with these kids? They are suppose to be in a college class, not 1st grade.

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 10:37 PM
Quote:
Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

What the hell is wrong with these kids? They are suppose to be in a college class, not 1st grade.

Yeah that does sound like it went on in elementary school! Bullying is simply unacceptable, as is the racism that apparently took place!

I'm not making excuses for him though, what he did was the most sick, inhumane thing possible :mad:

justClaudia
04-19-2007, 10:37 PM
bullshit he was a viticim, many of bullied and few react in this way, to say he was a victim is shit, he was a crazy motherfucker who deserved to be put in a mental insitution...

As for "the times" we live in, its the safest its been in america in about 50 years... crime rates are around record lows...

Thank god not everyone reacts like this boy did, can you imagine. Please.

He was a sick person, no doubt.

ljubicic_
04-19-2007, 10:39 PM
Quote:
Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

What the hell is wrong with these kids? They are suppose to be in a college class, not 1st grade.


Yeah, i agree, didn't their Parents raised them well:tape: i do think he's crazy for killing those people's but the students laughed at him all the time and that's frustrating

ljubicic_
04-19-2007, 10:41 PM
Thank god not everyone reacts like this boy did, can you imagine. Please.

He was a sick person, no doubt.


Yes, he is but don't you think that this wouldn't happened if the students wouldn't builly him? I think teachers should solve the problem immediatly if he/she noticed that someone is boulied

RickDaStick
04-19-2007, 10:42 PM
Yeah that does sound like it went on in elementary school! Bullying is simply unacceptable, as is the racism that apparently took place!

I'm not making excuses for him though, what he did was the most sick, inhumane thing possible :mad:


Yes i agree that guy is a sick bastard and im not making excuses for him either but that was pretty pathetic on the kids part to laugh at him like that and say that.

ljubicic_
04-19-2007, 10:44 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18186053/

Did Cho made that before he was on a killing path?

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 10:45 PM
Yes i agree that guy is a sick bastard and im not making excuses for him either but that was pretty pathetic on the kids part to laugh at him like that and say that.

There are usually at least one "strange" or "abnormal" students in every class, either they sit and don't speak or their behaviour is antisocial, but the best way is for the other students to try and integrate the individual and should they fail then leave him/her alone in peace rather than treat him/her in this way.

RickDaStick
04-19-2007, 10:47 PM
Did Cho made that before he was on a killing path?


Of course it was before then. He went to the post office to mail it in between the 2 killings.

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 10:49 PM
Of course it was before then. He went to the post office to mail it in between the 2 killings.

How cold and calculated! :scared:

justClaudia
04-19-2007, 10:50 PM
Yes, he is but don't you think that this wouldn't happened if the students wouldn't builly him? I think teachers should solve the problem immediatly if he/she noticed that someone is boulied

It's easy to blame others for our own actions.

No, in my oppinion, he is the one to blame. You can try to excuse him by saying he is a product of a disfunctional society, which can be right in a way, but in the end he was the one who took that gun and killed 33 innocent people. He made the decision to do it.

Teachers, family, friends can try and help, and according to what I've read, some did. But this kid never wanted help.

Voo de Mar
04-19-2007, 10:51 PM
Every society need to have a scapegoat. Cho was a spacegot there, mtw is here, but of course being a scapegoat isn't a justification for killing people.

justClaudia
04-19-2007, 10:53 PM
How cold and calculated! :scared:


he killed the first two at around 7:15, edited the pdf files in his computer at 7:24, and at 8:01 AM was in the post office sending the package to NBC.


what a twisted mind.

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 10:59 PM
It's easy to blame others for our own actions.

No, in my oppinion, he is the one to blame. You can try to excuse him by saying he is a product of a disfunctional society, which can be right in a way, but in the end he was the one who took that gun and killed 33 innocent people. He made the decision to do it.

Teachers, family, friends can try and help, and according to what I've read, some did. But this kid never wanted help.

Yes he is definitely the one to blame, it is simply crazy to even try and place any blame for the 33 deaths on the bullies. They shouldn't have bullied him but they were not the cause. His sick and twisted mind was the cause!

he killed the first two at around 7:15, edited the pdf files in his computer at 7:24, and at 8:01 AM was in the post office sending the package to NBC.


what a twisted mind.

Bloody hell that is crazy! :eek:

ljubicic_
04-19-2007, 11:00 PM
here is partial list of victims, including a holocaust survivor, who blocked the door and told his students to jump from the window...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting.victims/index.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6564075.stm

He even killed a 18 year old girl:sad:
really awful

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 11:01 PM
He even killed a 18 year old girl:sad:
really awful

All the deaths are equally as sad :sad:

ljubicic_
04-19-2007, 11:02 PM
It's easy to blame others for our own actions.

No, in my oppinion, he is the one to blame. You can try to excuse him by saying he is a product of a disfunctional society, which can be right in a way, but in the end he was the one who took that gun and killed 33 innocent people. He made the decision to do it.

Teachers, family, friends can try and help, and according to what I've read, some did. But this kid never wanted help.


It would never happened if the students leaved them alone. He said it by himself that it was revenge for killing those inescence people.

And again he is crazy yes, he should have got any help

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 11:06 PM
It would never happened if the students leaved them alone. He said it by himself that it was revenge for killing those inescence people.

And again he is crazy yes, he should have got any help

Walking away from situations is a much better option than seeking revenge :( and even if he did need revenge it should never have been this scale and towards innocent people!

justClaudia
04-19-2007, 11:11 PM
It would never happened if the students leaved them alone. He said it by himself that it was revenge for killing those inescence people.

And again he is crazy yes, he should have got any help

So in your oppinion it's the other students fault?

I got to say, I couldn't disagree more. He was bullied alright, but the way to answer to those who were racist and stupid towards him is NOT to open fire on campus and kill 33 mates. Do you think that is the way?

He needed help, fine, ask for help, look for help, do whatever it takes to get better and feel better. But don't find excuses, later, for your own stupidity. This boy wanted fame, he was a no one who wanted to be someone. Unfortunately, he chose to have his 15 minutes of fame, in the worst possible way.

ljubicic_
04-19-2007, 11:12 PM
Walking away from situations is a much better option than seeking revenge :( and even if he did need revenge it should never have been this scale and towards innocent people!


I agree with it yes but still how old were those people who builed them 20, 21, 22? they were smart enough to know that Cho was not mentally 100% and that he was in for some trouble and instead that they were leaving him alone they only made it worse.

and really don't think that i'm only blaming the students!

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 11:16 PM
I agree with it yes but still how old were those people who builed them 20, 21, 22? they were smart enough to know that Cho was not mentally 100% and that he was in for some trouble and instead that they were leaving him alone they only made it worse.

and really don't think that i'm only blaming the students!

Yes at that age you would expect them to leave him alone. Certainly when I was in University there were one or two oddballs but nobody ever teased them and made their life uncomfortable.

justClaudia
04-19-2007, 11:20 PM
I agree with it yes but still how old were those people who builed them 20, 21, 22? they were smart enough to know that Cho was not mentally 100% and that he was in for some trouble and instead that they were leaving him alone they only made it worse.

and really don't think that i'm only blaming the students!

You know, a teacher, English I believe, took a whole semester teaching him in private, because she found him dangerous to her own class, and she realised this kid needed help. So she did it.

For six months, she would elaborate on a 10 minutes question, she would talk and talk ...and he would always answer with a no or with a yes. Always a simple and quick answer. She even said that he kept his sunglasses on during the classes.

She was trying to reach him and he was blocking her. He never wanted help.

MissPovaFan
04-19-2007, 11:28 PM
You know, a teacher, English I believe, took a whole semester teaching him in private, because she found him dangerous to her own class, and she realised this kid needed help. So she did it.

For six months, she would elaborate on a 10 minutes question, she would talk and talk ...and he would always answer with a no or with a yes. Always a simple and quick answer. She even said that he kept his sunglasses on during the classes.

She was trying to reach him and he was blocking her. He never wanted help.

In England psychiatrists are brought in as the result of such behaviour...

justClaudia
04-19-2007, 11:31 PM
In England psychiatrists are brought in as the result of such behaviour...

Yeah, that kind of behaviour says it all I think.

Jim Jones
04-19-2007, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

What the hell is wrong with these kids? They are suppose to be in a college class, not 1st grade.

I doubt that was at university. It must have been during school years. Either that or the story is false. People at university are usually more mature. As for Cho well at least he was motivated to read for his precious manifesto. His teachers would have been proud of him. :lol:

By the way I don't believe his teacher who said that he was the worst student that she had and that she could see that he was dangerous and that close to 70 students would not come to class unless he was removed. If that was the case he would be suspended. Some of the teachers want to be in the limelight too as we could see on you tube when one of the teachers was a ctig as a star during a rememberance day and they could then say anything. Cho was a bully and may have been mean but he was also quiet and unassuming. Mabye the media which have nothing better to do anyways, should investigate to see if these teachers are telling the truth or simply are trying to be Sherlock.

Lee
04-20-2007, 12:47 AM
Thread title needs to be updated to 33 confirmed dead.


Poor baby. :baby: Wasn't everybody? :o So now the normal rites of childhood are being used as an excuse for murdering scores innocent people later in life? Give me a break.

edit
Now that the media has played right into this asshole's hands by turning him into a media star, playing his stupid home videos on TV, and making him a hero amongst the lunatic fringe, I wonder how long it will be before some copycat killer emerges to get his own fifteen minutes of fame and walks into school with Daddy's gun to "get even" with those kids who laughed at him during lunch in kindergarten.

*is thoroughly disgusted by the media saturation of this story*

Agree with Tangy :scared:

In England psychiatrists are brought in as the result of such behaviour...

He was referred to school counselor and also sent to psychiatric hospital.

I doubt that was at university. It must have been during school years. Either that or the story is false. People at university are usually more mature. As for Cho well at least he was motivated to read for his precious manifesto. His teachers would have been proud of him. :lol:

High school

buddyholly
04-20-2007, 12:48 AM
I agree with it yes but still how old were those people who builed them 20, 21, 22? they were smart enough to know that Cho was not mentally 100% and that he was in for some trouble and instead that they were leaving him alone they only made it worse

As I read this someone said on TV that he was bullied as a schoolboy, so the ages would be way less than you said. Actually bullying in university is unheard of, the bullies have usually grown up enough, or more likely, ;) never were smart enough to get into university.

Lee
04-20-2007, 01:47 AM
It's not that bad is it? :awww: ;)

It's getting really scary.

MissMoJo
04-20-2007, 04:04 AM
Quote:
Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

What the hell is wrong with these kids? They are suppose to be in a college class, not 1st grade.
This happened in high school

Once, in English class at Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., when the teacher had the students read aloud, Cho looked down when it was his turn, said Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior and high school classmate. After the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho began reading in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"The whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.