Who do you believe: British soldiers or Iranians? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who do you believe: British soldiers or Iranians?

Rosa Luxembourg
04-09-2007, 04:18 AM
British soldiers are saying that Iranians didn't treat them well keeping them separately tied, etc. Iranians are releasing videos where British soldiers shown playing tennis, eating nice food with nice flower centre pieces, playing chess, laughing, etc.

Who is lying in IYO?

RonE
04-09-2007, 09:07 AM
Any person with any semblance of intelligence can see that the Iranian government compulsively lies and creates propoganda.

Now let's think for a moment who has more to gain/lose by not telling the truth. The soldiers who happen to lie- ALL of them with a corroborated fictional tale, or the Iranian government that does not want itself portrayed as brutal and deceitful in the eyes of the world?

LocoPorElTenis
04-09-2007, 11:46 AM
They are both lying. Each side will twist the facts to benefit their own side of the story. I agree with RonE but unfortunately most governments, not just Iran, "compulsively lie and create propaganda".

Bilbo
04-09-2007, 12:34 PM
I never trust Blair or Bush so my answer is clear.

British soldiers should be happy that they got free and had two good weeks in Iran.

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 12:39 PM
Britain stopped the holocaust, Iran denies the holocaust.
Who would you believe?

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 12:42 PM
They are both lying. Each side will twist the facts to benefit their own side of the story. I agree with RonE but unfortunately most governments, not just Iran, "compulsively lie and create propaganda".Please, where are the lies from the British Government? We have no problem knowing the Iranian government lies, but I will wait for your proof of the lies from the British government.

JBdV
04-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Please, where are the lies from the British Government? We have no problem knowing the Iranian government lies, but I will wait for your proof of the lies from the British government.

Where are those WMDs then? :retard:

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 12:49 PM
Where are those WMDs then? :retard:

Under construction in Iran.

But if you are confusing this thread with Iraq, then check the lungs of a couple of hundred thousand dead kurds.

JBdV
04-09-2007, 12:53 PM
Under construction in Iran.

But if you are confusing this thread with Iraq, then check the lungs of a couple of hundred thousand dead kurds.

You were speaking about lies from the British government in general. :retard:

Bilbo
04-09-2007, 12:57 PM
even if the british soldiers were in iranian waters the british government would never ever admit that. too much pride.

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 12:57 PM
You were speaking about lies from the British government in general. :retard:

I wasn't actually.
Maybe you can tell me why it is always the least intelligent posters on MTF that are obsessed with the retard smilie as being the best way to express themselves.

JBdV
04-09-2007, 12:59 PM
I wasn't actually.
Maybe you can tell me why it is always the least intelligent posters on MTF that are obsessed with the retard smilie as being the best way to express themselves.

:retard:

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 01:02 PM
:retard:

I rest my case.

Rosa Luxembourg
04-09-2007, 01:28 PM
Britain stopped the holocaust, Iran denies the holocaust.
Who would you believe?

Britain stopped the holocaust? :eek: Sounds like a very frivolous intepretation of history

Rosa Luxembourg
04-09-2007, 01:32 PM
Any person with any semblance of intelligence can see that the Iranian government compulsively lies and creates propoganda.

Now let's think for a moment who has more to gain/lose by not telling the truth. The soldiers who happen to lie- ALL of them with a corroborated fictional tale, or the Iranian government that does not want itself portrayed as brutal and deceitful in the eyes of the world?


There is a propaganda from both sides.

I don't agree that Iranians have much to lose. They are hated anyways regadless on what they do. The soldiers have more to lose. In some Western media there are questions on how they could so quickly admit they were wrong. It's embarassing. And the British government has apologized admitting that that the soldiers were arrested in the Iranian wtaers.

LocoPorElTenis
04-09-2007, 02:25 PM
Britain stopped the holocaust, Iran denies the holocaust.
Who would you believe?

Russia stopped the holocaust (more so than Britain actually). Does that mean that Putin always says the truth? (not to talk about Stalin) :confused: .

The Iranian government is shameful and a threat to world peace, but so is the British government. Blair lied to start a war which cost many hundreds of thousands of lives. Why wouldn't he lie about something as small as this?

zicofirol
04-09-2007, 02:42 PM
That is a tough one... lets see a country where the government position on 9-11 was that it was a jewish conspiracy, denies the holocaust and has kidnapped soldiers before and lied about releasing them, a government that imprisons dissenters and has executed teenage girls for having pre-marital sex... I have no idea who to believe, them or the british sailors who where being tracked by gps and shown to be in Iraqi waters....

*Ljubica*
04-09-2007, 05:40 PM
That is a tough one... lets see a country where the government position on 9-11 was that it was a jewish conspiracy, denies the holocaust and has kidnapped soldiers before and lied about releasing them, a government that imprisons dissenters and has executed teenage girls for having pre-marital sex... I have no idea who to believe, them or the british sailors who where being tracked by gps and shown to be in Iraqi waters....

Well said :worship: First, I have to say that despite being British, I am not a fan of Blair - I despise his groveling to Bush and I hated the Iraq War.......... but having said that, the sailors were 1.7 nautical miles INSIDE Iraqi waters when they were kidnapped, and you don't have to have a huge brain to see it was a set up from start to finish.

As for what the servicepeople may or may not have said while in captivity. Well we are hearing now that they were systematically tortured during their time with the Iranians - particularly emotional and mental torutre aimed at the youngest male, and lone female member....... so until any of us are in solitary confiement for days and threatened with death, I don't think we have a right to condemn them for saying anything to try and save themselves.

The Iranians can't be trusted and have proved that over years on the International stage - why the hell should I believe them now?

Bilbo
04-09-2007, 05:52 PM
the sailors were 1.7 nautical miles INSIDE Iraqi waters when they were kidnapped

so you believe them? where's the proof? the british government never showed any the proof of that. maybe they thought they were in iraqi water but were misleaded by their technique or whatever. it can happen very fast.

Jim Jones
04-09-2007, 05:54 PM
Russia stopped the holocaust (more so than Britain actually). Does that mean that Putin always says the truth? (not to talk about Stalin) :confused: .

The Iranian government is shameful and a threat to world peace, but so is the British government. Blair lied to start a war which cost many hundreds of thousands of lives. Why wouldn't he lie about something as small as this?
All the Russians did was replace the holocaust with gulags. Millions of Germans and other were sent there and did not survive. Wast Europeans scoff when people say that Russians liberated them. They are grateful only to west europeans like the Brits and americans as well.

Julio1974
04-09-2007, 06:26 PM
My feeling is that if the Brittish soldiers had been in Iranian waters, Iran would not have released them so quickly.

In any case, If Blair is lying, we will know it sooner or later. That's the difference between a democratic country with a free press such as the UK and an authoritarian country such as Iran.

JBdV
04-09-2007, 06:28 PM
Can we stop saying "the Iranians" instead of the Iranian government :rolleyes: One government can't speak for 70 million people.

Julio1974
04-09-2007, 06:32 PM
Russia stopped the holocaust (more so than Britain actually). Does that mean that Putin always says the truth? (not to talk about Stalin) :confused: .

The Iranian government is shameful and a threat to world peace, but so is the British government. Blair lied to start a war which cost many hundreds of thousands of lives. Why wouldn't he lie about something as small as this?


During the first two years of the war, Britain was alone fighting against the Nazis. The US was still neutral and the URSS had signed non-agression Pact with Hitler. And despite that, the bastards couldn't set a single foot on the islands.

Bilbo
04-09-2007, 06:33 PM
My feeling is that if the Brittish soldiers had been in Iranian waters, Iran would not have released them so quickly.

In any case, If Blair is lying, we will know it sooner or later. That's the difference between a democratic country with a free press such as the UK and an authoritarian country such as Iran.

I highly doubt Blair even knew anything about it. Hard to believe you know the location of every ship and plane. The soldiers know the answer and even they probably thought they were in iraqi water but were misleaded for some reason and didn't know about it.

Anyway, good for the soldiers. They are making a lot of money out of the story. They are allowed to sell their story to the media. Best that could happen to them. They should thank Iran for it.

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 06:38 PM
It's embarassing. And the British government has apologized admitting that that the soldiers were arrested in the Iranian wtaers.

What are your sources? I would like to read this news?

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 06:41 PM
Britain stopped the holocaust? :eek: Sounds like a very frivolous intepretation of history

Not frivolous at all! I did not say they acted 100% alone. But they were the first to fight back against the Nazi expansion.

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 06:47 PM
so you believe them? where's the proof? the british government never showed any the proof of that. maybe they thought they were in iraqi water but were misleaded by their technique or whatever. it can happen very fast.

You are just so desperate for the Iranians to be right and the Brits wrong, aren't you?

Actually the British government did show proof the that you seek. They made public the co-ordinates that the Iranian government provided for them - which just happened to be in Iraqui waters:o

MissPovaFan
04-09-2007, 06:51 PM
British soldiers are saying that Iranians didn't treat them well keeping them separately tied, etc. Iranians are releasing videos where British soldiers shown playing tennis, eating nice food with nice flower centre pieces, playing chess, laughing, etc.

Who is lying in IYO?

Up until yesterday I would have backed the British soldiers for sure but since they sold their stories to the newspapers for money I have lost respect for them a great deal and would now question their integrity. I don't think we can automatically assume the Iranians are lying.

buddyholly
04-09-2007, 06:56 PM
Up until yesterday I would have backed the British soldiers for sure but since they sold their stories to the newspapers for money I have lost respect for them a great deal and would now question their integrity. I don't think we can automatically assume the Iranians are lying.

So to set up this money-making scheme they had to be in cahoots with the Iranian navy and arrange for a kidnapping? Is that what you are saying?

Actually, I think you can assume that the Iranians are lying. This happens 100% of the time with autocratic governments that have no fear of being taken to task by a free press in their own country.

Black Adam
04-09-2007, 07:07 PM
Amadinejhad isn't as stupid as he seems. He orchestrated this whole episode to tie Britains hands if they attempt to bomb or invade Iran in the future. It was just about showing the Great Britain that he is "a peaceful guy who works well with Diplomacy." It will be now hard for our Government to bomb Iran especially afte rthey have shown themselves to be a people who are "peaceful and who use discussion to settle disputes."

The sad part is that a large part of the people have fallen for the trick :sad: :rolleyes:

Up until yesterday I would have backed the British soldiers for sure but since they sold their stories to the newspapers for money I have lost respect for them a great deal and would now question their integrity. I don't think we can automatically assume the Iranians are lying.
Where Capitalism rules, the goal is to make as much money and profit as possible. After all they endured, a medal isn't enough payment. In their situation, I figure I would also be selling my story and probably quit the Army since their are fighting a pointless misguided war

Jim Jones
04-09-2007, 07:10 PM
Up until yesterday I would have backed the British soldiers for sure but since they sold their stories to the newspapers for money I have lost respect for them a great deal and would now question their integrity. I don't think we can automatically assume the Iranians are lying.

Oh come on, you would have done the samething. Blame the government not the soldiers. I would have sold my story too for 100 grant. On one hand I approve of the soldiers for selling their money. It would piss off the Iranians. On the other hand this behavior could encourage soldiers to surrender instread of fighting if they are in this same situation. They may think that they to will get loads of money once (if so) released.

cobalt60
04-09-2007, 07:25 PM
Up until yesterday I would have backed the British soldiers for sure but since they sold their stories to the newspapers for money I have lost respect for them a great deal and would now question their integrity. I don't think we can automatically assume the Iranians are lying.

Where did you read that they were allowed to sell their stories for $$? I am ex-USNavy and although it was awhile ago ( no ageist comments please;) ) I would never have been allowed to profit from this story as an active member of the service. If it is true the times they are a changing.

Black Adam
04-09-2007, 07:29 PM
Where did you read that they were allowed to sell their stories for $$? I am ex-USNavy and although it was awhile ago ( no ageist comments please;) ) I would never have been allowed to profit from this story as an active member of the service. If it is true the times they are a changing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6537103.stm

cobalt60
04-09-2007, 07:37 PM
Thanks. It is not a usual circumstance then but was a recent decision pertaining to these servicemen. Hopefully they will all end up giving it to charity.

Black Adam
04-09-2007, 07:42 PM
The lady who was held in her own cell has been offered 6 digit amount for her story.

Bilbo
04-09-2007, 07:51 PM
Amadinejhad isn't as stupid as he seems.

He's smarter than Bush and Blair to be honest. If you like him or not you have to give him credits for many of his smart tricks.

R.Federer
04-09-2007, 07:52 PM
At the outset, I had complete distrust of only the Iranis.

Now though, that the UK soldiers are planning to make money off their saga, who knows? The more terrible the details of their ordeals, the more copies they will sell. They know that. So their credibility is in question too.

R.Federer
04-09-2007, 07:53 PM
Sorry, I did not see that Paul Hopkins and others said about the same thing (ya, basically I did not read the rest of the thread).

Bilbo
04-09-2007, 07:53 PM
Thanks. It is not a usual circumstance then but was a recent decision pertaining to these servicemen. Hopefully they will all end up giving it to charity.

Turney got nearly $300.000 by the Sun and another newspaper I heard.

Bilbo
04-09-2007, 07:57 PM
The more terrible the details of their ordeals, the more copies they will sell. They know that. So their credibility is in question too.

Yes, that's the point. Surely they will make that to get as much money as possible. So if anyone believes everything they told you are either blind or retarded. It's all about money.

MissPovaFan
04-09-2007, 08:04 PM
So to set up this money-making scheme they had to be in cahoots with the Iranian navy and arrange for a kidnapping? Is that what you are saying?

Actually, I think you can assume that the Iranians are lying. This happens 100% of the time with autocratic governments that have no fear of being taken to task by a free press in their own country.

No it definitely wasn't pre-arranged and the Iranians were obviously trying to score points against the British. But look at it this way, if the 15 soldiers came home and confirmed the Iranian claims that they were treated fairly and nicely the newspapers wouldn't give a shit and the story would die and none of the 15 would be remembered. However by possibly adding this controversial angle they are able to cash in. I;m not saying this is definitely the case as we don't know for sure yet but it could very well have been.

Where Capitalism rules, the goal is to make as much money and profit as possible. After all they endured, a medal isn't enough payment. In their situation, I figure I would also be selling my story and probably quit the Army since their are fighting a pointless misguided war

I can see why they would take the money but the way they have been talked up by the British media is ridiculous. They are not heroes and Faye Turney is not some sort of feminist legend - which she will be paraded as for sure. "People's Mother" or whatever crap they will come up with. They wouldn't be offered any money though if they had agreed with the Iranian claims.

Oh come on, you would have done the samething. Blame the government not the soldiers. I would have sold my story too for 100 grant. On one hand I approve of the soldiers for selling their money. It would piss off the Iranians. On the other hand this behavior could encourage soldiers to surrender instread of fighting if they are in this same situation. They may think that they to will get loads of money once (if so) released.

I don't think the British government handled the situation badly at all - in many ways they have outfoxed the Iranian government. The media are more to blame for blowing it out of proportion and heaping pressure on the soldiers in the first place.

Yes you are right, going to fight in the Army could be the next Big Brother get rich type scheme :eek:

Where did you read that they were allowed to sell their stories for $$? I am ex-USNavy and although it was awhile ago ( no ageist comments please;) ) I would never have been allowed to profit from this story as an active member of the service. If it is true the times they are a changing.

Yep the MOD haven't put in an injunction to prevent this.

The lady who was held in her own cell has been offered 6 digit amount for her story.

Turney got nearly $300.000 by the Sun and another newspaper I heard.

I wonder if she will win some Daily Mirror style "Mother of the Year" award for this :lol:

uglyamerican
04-09-2007, 08:07 PM
Word on the street is that the 'Assembly of Experts' pressured Ameninijad into giving up the hostages.

RickDaStick
04-09-2007, 08:41 PM
Typical propaganda by the Brits. They should be thankful the Iranians let the sailors free.

MissPovaFan
04-09-2007, 08:48 PM
Typical propaganda by the Brits. They should be thankful the Iranians let the sailors free.

Yep totally. Those 15 sailors should count themselves lucky! After the way the 15 have acted since leaving Iran I can't see them being so lenient in any future event!

buddyholly
04-10-2007, 12:57 AM
He's smarter than Bush and Blair to be honest. If you like him or not you have to give him credits for many of his smart tricks.

Still drooling over the thrills of kissing his ass, eh?

I don't give credit to any terrorists for smart tricks.

Why do you say he is smarter than Bush or Blair? Do you know this for sure? Or are you just dreaming?

El Legenda
04-10-2007, 01:05 AM
Ameninijad is more hated by his people than Bush. Bush probably has higher approval rating in U.S. than Ameninijad in Iran.

MissPovaFan
04-10-2007, 01:05 AM
Ahmadinejad is a fool and has doubles standards. What the hell was that rubbish when he was criticising Britain for sending a woman out there??? They know an awful lot about women's rights don't they? ;) ;)

He has come out of this incident looking a complete prat. To be honest only the British government may win from this.

MissPovaFan
04-10-2007, 01:11 AM
Ameninijad is more hated by his people than Bush. Bush probably has higher approval rating in U.S. than Ameninijad in Iran.

Ahmadinejad is a military man not a politician and through history that has been a recpite for disaster.

buddyholly
04-10-2007, 01:13 AM
No it definitely wasn't pre-arranged and the Iranians were obviously trying to score points against the British. But look at it this way, if the 15 soldiers came home and confirmed the Iranian claims that they were treated fairly and nicely the newspapers wouldn't give a shit and the story would die and none of the 15 would be remembered. However by possibly adding this controversial angle they are able to cash in.

I think it a big mistake to let them make any money from the tabloids. Next, half the troops will be waving their white hankies at the Iranian troops, begging to surrender.

buddyholly
04-10-2007, 01:16 AM
Typical propaganda by the Brits. They should be thankful the Iranians let the sailors free.

The arse clown tournament is over, it is too late to try picking up votes.

MissPovaFan
04-10-2007, 01:17 AM
I think it a big mistake to let them make any money from the tabloids. Next, half the troops will be waving their white hankies at the Iranian troops, begging to surrender.

They will try and pass it off by donating a sum of it to charity - but they are bound to either inflate that figure or will just claim they were paid less than they actually are by the media.

Faye Turney for example has become the key figure of the 15 soldiers and she will be in hot demand throughout the media circles! Who knows what she will be doing in the next year! Probably end up getting a job in television somehow maybe with an appearance on some reality tv show along the way! :p

TMJordan
04-10-2007, 03:28 AM
Fuck off Iran :wavey:

Black Adam
04-10-2007, 03:05 PM
Geez, Ahmadinejad is a very short man; about 5'4. Yet another case of Short Man syndrome. http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/Only%20a%20Bit%20Short.jpg


How many times have we seen Short men in power who do crazy things?? They seek attention via many riculous methods :rolleyes: Such a sad complex they have.
Check out this list of known Short Men, suffering from the Short Man complex, how gruesome their careers were. Dictatorships, killing any competition, exterminations etc.

Bonaparte Napoleon
Vladimir Lenin
Adolf Hitler
Benito Mussolin
Kim ill Sung
Robert Mugabe
Ahmadinejhad

Just enough said :help:
Kim ill Sung holds his meetings while standing (in his high heel shoes)so that he appears taller and dominant over the rest of the cabinet that is seated :help: :haha: :haha: :haha: :rolleyes:

Mistaflava
04-10-2007, 03:14 PM
Fuck off Iran :wavey:


:haha:

buddyholly
04-10-2007, 11:42 PM
Geez, Ahmadinejad is a very short man

But a big prick!

alfonsojose
04-11-2007, 02:33 PM
Britain stopped the holocaust, Iran denies the holocaust.
Who would you believe?
:cuckoo:

Jim Jones
04-11-2007, 06:09 PM
Iran would like to spread its influence in the region. Problem is that Iraq shiites are Arabs and arabs are nationalists. People like Al Sadr are not Iranian stooges. The Iranians allies in iraq have the biggest party but their influence among the people are not as much as Al Sadr who realized that to be successful one needs a brand name (Al Sadr), Islamism and nationalism. Iran has not spread its influence to other shiite nations like Azerbaijan. I Lebanon the hezbollah is in conflict with the parties supportd by sunnis. It is a stalemate there with those being in power being the hezbollah's political enemies.

MissPovaFan
04-13-2007, 03:55 AM
Apparently Tony Blair had actually encouraged the sailors to get their stories published and helped them get media deals! He's a bloody disgrace if this is the case!

Andre♥
04-13-2007, 05:52 AM
I think I gave the biggest laugh of 2007 when I got that someone thinks that Great Britain stopped the holocaust... :haha: :haha: :haha:

What will come next? Italy had great soldiers in WWII, but they couldn't defeat the poor Greeks? :retard:

Or Levy
04-13-2007, 08:40 AM
Iran's use of propaganda in this matter was so glaringly obvious, a blind person could see it.

I didn't think that the captives would be tortured, even Iran isn't stupid enough for that - but it is no way believable that they weren't questioned agressively and that psychological pressure wasn't used.

All you had to do was to watch and listen to these soldiors when they appeared on Iranian TV, I mean - come on!!! The way the only female was singled out, the fake setting when everyone were shown together, their apologies to Iran, all those talks about how well they were treated, the we've 'obviously trsspassed' and 'our country should apologies' the talks about the UK need to pull out of Iran - how could anyone have any doubts that they were threatened or pressured into making those statements and that it wasn't out of their free will?

No sane soldior would say that if he wasn't pressured heavily into it, and threatened. Soldiors in captivity want to hang on to their pride, and keep true to their country, unless they believed it meant their lives.

I don't envy what they've been through, and I do wonder what were their instructions about captivity were, the option had to be taken under consideration and been a part of their training, but listening to the Faye Turney's words about how they told her she was the only one there and her friends had been returned - it makes me wonder how could she have not known it was a lie, and whether there was little or no prepreration regarding investigation methods that might be used on them.

But I gotta say, I don't like the whole 'selling the stories' bit, definitly not right away. They are still soldiors, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

mtw
04-13-2007, 01:22 PM
Iranians.
British politicians should explain, what happened with dr Kelly, before th war in Iraq. I suppose, that they don't say the truth in many cases.

buddyholly
04-13-2007, 01:26 PM
I think I gave the biggest laugh of 2007 when I got that someone thinks that Great Britain stopped the holocaust...

Well, it WAS stopped, so pray tell us, who stopped it? Oh wait, maybe it was the Portugese, their contribution to saving Europe should not be overlooked.

buddyholly
04-13-2007, 01:49 PM
:cuckoo:

I do not reply to posters who think clicking on a smilie is a valid debating tool - oh wait,:ignore:

zicofirol
04-13-2007, 02:42 PM
Iranians.
British politicians should explain, what happened with dr Kelly, before th war in Iraq. I suppose, that they don't say the truth in many cases.

for being quite the feminist you believe a regime that stones woman for having pre-marital sex? unless of course you agree with those punishments, lol, which would not surprise me...