Marat Safin - the best contemporary Davis Cup player [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Marat Safin - the best contemporary Davis Cup player

ys
04-08-2007, 11:52 PM
Since Marat became a leader of Team Russia ( that is , since he won USO 2000 ), he participated in 14 Davis Cup ties. Russia is 13-1 in those, and the only loss came in Belarus .. and you know that story .. should have been perfect 14-0 for Russia with Safin leading it.. Russia with Safin is .. invincible..:)

Emilio
04-09-2007, 12:14 AM
Since Marat became a leader of Team Russia ( that is , since he won USO 2000 ), he participated in 14 Davis Cup ties. Russia is 13-1 in those, and the only loss came in Belarus .. and you know that story .. should have been perfect 14-0 for Russia with Safin leading it.. Russia with Safin is .. invincible..:)

Safin has something but i dont know what, but yes, when he plays russia allways wins

Svetlana.
04-09-2007, 12:15 AM
Since Marat became a leader of Team Russia ( that is , since he won USO 2000 ), he participated in 14 Davis Cup ties. Russia is 13-1 in those, and the only loss came in Belarus .. and you know that story .. should have been perfect 14-0 for Russia with Safin leading it.. Russia with Safin is .. invincible..:)

Yes and no... Safin is a real Russian legend, but any DC success based on a team effort.
If Tursunov would not beat Roddick last year in Semis, Russia could not be playing in the Final...
and if Andreev would not win his match earlier this year with Massu, Russia could not be playing in Quarters with France today. :worship:

Rosa Luxembourg
04-09-2007, 12:16 AM
Since Marat became a leader of Team Russia ( that is , since he won USO 2000 ), he participated in 14 Davis Cup ties. Russia is 13-1 in those, and the only loss came in Belarus .. and you know that story .. should have been perfect 14-0 for Russia with Safin leading it.. Russia with Safin is .. invincible..:)


The story being him partying?

atheneglaukopis
04-09-2007, 12:19 AM
Yes and no... Safin is a real Russian legend, but any DC success based on a team effort.
If Tursunov would not beat Roddick last year in Semis, Russia could not be playing in the Final...
and if Andreev would not win his match earlier this year with Massu, Russia could not be playing in Quarters with France today. :worship:I agree about the team effort, but you don't think Safin would have beaten Blake on home clay in a live fifth rubber?

Svetlana.
04-09-2007, 12:23 AM
I agree about the team effort, but you don't think Safin would have beaten Blake on home clay in a live fifth rubber?

Blake (on his favorite hard cort) lost to Safin in Washington last summer ;)

Seneca
04-09-2007, 12:24 AM
Since Marat became a leader of Team Russia ( that is , since he won USO 2000 ), he participated in 14 Davis Cup ties. Russia is 13-1 in those, and the only loss came in Belarus .. and you know that story .. should have been perfect 14-0 for Russia with Safin leading it.. Russia with Safin is .. invincible..
Nah, he's been the top dog of Russian tennis but he's had Kafelnikov earlier and then Youzhny & Davydenko to fall back on when things have been going badly. In 2001 he got beaten in both his singles matches by Kucera & Hrbaty but Russia still advanced from that one.

He's in the contemporary top 3, I'll give you that. Hewitt still stands in his own colossal heights but Safin occupies the second spot with Nalbandian, who is hard to rank because he has no team success apart from last year's final appearance but there's only one time Argentina ever progressed with him losing a live rubber and that was last year against Croatia. Hewitt has been in a decline a few years and we'll see how Dave rebounds from his sub-par showing in Göteborg. Safin's relative longevity might actually have me agree with you by the end of this year.

Ljubicic and Hrbaty, maybe even Escude or Jiri Novak (well they were active in the same time segment) are other noteworthy names that spring into mind easily. Ljubicic was a monster at his peak, which wasn't that long, apparently. Hrbaty has a steady if somewhat uninspiring DC career and Escude is a bit of a curiosity; he was never the go-to guy in his team and his career record of 18w-5l is inflated by a higher amount of dead rubbers than with the other top guys. He deserves a mention, though.

Emilio
04-09-2007, 12:47 AM
well, yes, like seneca said, safin and hsi team won all this ties not only for him, Youzhny, davydenko, tursnov and andreev had great matches that helped russia, not only Safin. What we can say is that this russia is one of the best teams of davis cup history, becouse its very complete and have top players,
Also, they can play in all surfaces, clay, hard, carpet, so, its very difficult when another team faces them, becouse its hard to choose the surface (maybe the grass is the best option, but today not to much temas has grat grass players...), so, russians can addapt to any surface

Burrow
04-09-2007, 12:51 AM
Its nothing to do with the fact that if safin plays they win, whether he wins or lose, they win.

Emilio
04-09-2007, 12:53 AM
Its nothing to do with the fact that if safin plays they win, whether he wins or lose, they win.

Its just his presence

ys
04-09-2007, 12:55 AM
well, yes, like seneca said, safin and hsi team won all this ties not only for him, Youzhny, davydenko, tursnov and andreev had great matches that helped russia, not only Safin. What we can say is that this russia is one of the best teams of davis cup history, becouse its very complete and have top players,
Also, they can play in all surfaces, clay, hard, carpet, so, its very difficult when another team faces them, becouse its hard to choose the surface (maybe the grass is the best option, but today not to much temas has grat grass players...), so, russians can addapt to any surface

There is no denial about Russian depth and importance of team effort. That's not the point.. Just compile the stats of Russia-when-Safin-is-injured and compare it to 13-1. You can call him a Russian talisman , if you don't see tennis-related or psychology-related roots, I am fine with that..

Sjengster
04-09-2007, 01:23 AM
Back in 2002, the year Russia first won the title, they were effectively one service hold from Kratochvil away from going out in the first round to Switzerland, but Kafelnikov fought back to win in five which proved to be crucial in the end. But there's no denying that Safin has delivered in some big matches in DC, he won all his matches that same year aside from that one loss to Federer and last year it was only Nalbandian who managed to defeat him.

leng jai
04-09-2007, 01:33 AM
It makes sense that Safin is a brilliant Davis Cup player. When you are playing for yourself, its easy to be half assed about it because the only person you are really accountable for is yourself. When playing for your own country, the result is going to affect many more peoeple and you're more inclined to give 100%. Safin's brain farts are few and far between in Davis Cup.

I'd still put Hewitt in front of him though, that guy is a nutcase when it comes to playing for his own country.

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 01:41 AM
Have you ever heard about Ljubicic?

leng jai
04-09-2007, 01:46 AM
Whats a Ljubicic?

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 01:58 AM
The player that raises his level the most playing DC.

Emilio
04-09-2007, 02:03 AM
Hewitt, Safin, fat dave, ljubo, thay are all great davis cup players...

If federer love his country like they, Swiss army could win it several times, but roger is not as patriotic as safin or the other players..

leng jai
04-09-2007, 02:12 AM
The player that raises his level the most playing DC.

Only because his standard level is so low in the first place.

Sjengster
04-09-2007, 02:17 AM
Hewitt, Safin, fat dave, ljubo, thay are all great davis cup players...

If federer love his country like they, Swiss army could win it several times, but roger is not as patriotic as safin or the other players..

I'm no fan of him skipping DC, don't get me wrong, but I don't attribute it to a lack of patriotism (he won 31 sets in a row in DC singles from 01-03), nor do I think they could win it several times with him playing, let's be realistic. Factoring in both team depth and the luck of the draw, one is the best they could hope for, but they're certainly not going to get it if he carries on spurning the competition during the best years of his career. No use in prioritising DC in a few years' time when he won't be a lock against virtually every player out there on tour, and who knows what the rest of the Swiss squad will be like then?

ys
04-09-2007, 02:19 AM
Have you ever heard about Ljubicic?

Laughable comparison. He had one good year. Kudos to him.. Safin has 13-1 record in this milenium, 2 Cups and 3 semifinals to his record. The whole generation of players grew up playing DC alongside with Safin. Have you heard of Youzhnyi before Bercy-2002? Kind of doubt it.. Davydenko joined the team being pretty much a nobody. So did Tursunov.. Playing Russian DC team jumpstarted career or all three and now they are all pretty much elite.

Ljubicic won a Cup. Safin created a Cup-winning dynasty. No comparison.

Seneca
04-09-2007, 02:23 AM
I'm no fan of him skipping DC, don't get me wrong, but I don't attribute it to a lack of patriotism (he won 31 sets in a row in DC singles from 01-03), nor do I think they could win it several times with him playing, let's be realistic. Factoring in both team depth and the luck of the draw, one is the best they could hope for, but they're certainly not going to get it if he carries on spurning the competition during the best years of his career. No use in prioritising DC in a few years' time when he won't be a lock against virtually every player out there on tour, and who knows what the rest of the Swiss squad will be like then?
Well, I can see Wawrinka becoming a Youzhny for his Safin, Chiudinelli providing depth for singles and Allegro rounding out the team as a doubles specialist. That's enough skill to make a run for the championship but maybe they'll need to get the first round done without Federer as he seems to avoid those ties like the plague.

shotgun
04-09-2007, 02:30 AM
Maybe that's just me, but I don't see anything spectacular at all about Safin's Davis Cup record.

http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player.asp?player=10014534

Seneca
04-09-2007, 02:33 AM
The whole generation of players grew up playing DC alongside with Safin. Have you heard of Youzhnyi before Bercy-2002? Kind of doubt it.. Davydenko joined the team being pretty much a nobody. So did Tursunov.. Playing Russian DC team jumpstarted career or all three and now they are all pretty much elite.

Silly me, thinking that the turning point for Davydenko might have been his QF showing at Australian Open 2005 and subsequent entry into top20.

Davy DC results before 2005: 2W-5L
after that: 7W-3L

Youzhny was a solid guy hovering around the 50 mark at Bercy-2002, where he continued to linger for a year and a half after that. I don't see any strong correlation between his DC heroics and career progress.

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 02:37 AM
Only because his standard level is so low in the first place.

Who's good? Mr. SF Haas? :lol:

Laughable comparison. He had one good year. Kudos to him.. Safin has 13-1 record in this milenium, 2 Cups and 3 semifinals to his record. The whole generation of players grew up playing DC alongside with Safin. Have you heard of Youzhnyi before Bercy-2002? Kind of doubt it.. Davydenko joined the team being pretty much a nobody. So did Tursunov.. Playing Russian DC team jumpstarted career or all three and now they are all pretty much elite.

Ljubicic won a Cup. Safin created a Cup-winning dynasty. No comparison.

Stop with the daydreaming. Ljubicic won a DC practically alone. Safin always had quality partners. Ljubo defeated Nalbandian in his best DC year, in straights. Defeated Agassi, Roddick and the Bryans in US. It can't get any better than that.

Maybe that's just me, but I don't see anything spectacular at all about Safin's Davis Cup record.

http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player.asp?player=10014534

It's not just you.

Johnny Groove
04-09-2007, 02:39 AM
what about Roddick? :p

RickDaStick
04-09-2007, 02:40 AM
what about Roddick? :p

What about him?

Deboogle!.
04-09-2007, 02:42 AM
what about Roddick? :pHe sucks. he didn't retire from a Masters Series to be able to have a chance to play Davis Cup. he didn't play through an injury, he just faked it to scare the Spaniards. He doesn't really care or foster a great team atmosphere or go out there ready to die every match or anything.

Gosh, get it straight PLEASE. :)

Johnny Groove
04-09-2007, 02:45 AM
He sucks. he didn't retire from a Masters Series to be able to have a chance to play Davis Cup. he didn't play through an injury, he just faked it to scare the Spaniards. He doesn't really care or foster a great team atmosphere or go out there ready to die every match or anything.

Gosh, get it straight PLEASE. :)

Sorry, I was under the impression that he was halfway decent. Guess not :wavey:

RickDaStick
04-09-2007, 02:45 AM
Roddick is 2-6 in SF and F DC matches with wins over VOLTCHKOV and SKRYPKO. Not very impressive.

Svetlana.
04-09-2007, 02:50 AM
He sucks. he didn't retire from a Masters Series to be able to have a chance to play Davis Cup. he didn't play through an injury, he just faked it to scare the Spaniards. He doesn't really care or foster a great team atmosphere or go out there ready to die every match or anything.

Gosh, get it straight PLEASE. :)

I never liked Roddick, but at least he is playing for his team... compare to players like Federer

Johnny Groove
04-09-2007, 02:50 AM
Roddick is 2-6 in SF and F DC matches with wins over VOLTCHKOV and SKRYPKO. Not very impressive.

What about Ljubo? didnt he lose to Hrbaty in 05 final? and had to rely on Ancic to finish it off?

sykotique
04-09-2007, 02:51 AM
Ljubicic + Ancic = Dangerous Davis Cup Doubles partners.

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 02:53 AM
I never liked Roddick, but at least he is playing for his team... compare to players like Federer

That's because Federer is making history. As Roddick has the idea he can't do the same, he's trying the DC.

What about Ljubo? didnt he lose to Hrbaty in 05 final? and had to rely on Ancic to finish it off?

After bitchslapping Agassi and Roddick in the US? Yes.

RickDaStick
04-09-2007, 02:53 AM
What about Ljubo? didnt he lose to Hrbaty in 05 final? and had to rely on Ancic to finish it off?

Ljubo woke up that day and couldnt walk because of a neck injury and still pushed Hrbaty to 5 sets. That loss was the only point that Ljubo failed to pick up that whole year.

Sjengster
04-09-2007, 02:58 AM
I always think the greatest single performance in DC in recent times was Escude in 2001, simply because he won all of his matches away from home, three of them in five sets, all of those three from two sets to one down.... two of them finished 8-6 in the fifth, the other was when he beat the newly crowned world no. 1 Hewitt in Melbourne in the final.

Johnny Groove
04-09-2007, 02:59 AM
After bitchslapping Agassi and Roddick in the US? Yes.

I dont consider a 5 set win over Roddick to be a "bitch-slapping". However, Roddick did bitchslap Ancic in 4 on that Friday :p

But thats not the point. Ljubo had one good year in DC, Roddick's been doing it his whole career.

RickDaStick
04-09-2007, 03:02 AM
I dont consider a 5 set win over Roddick to be a "bitch-slapping". However, Roddick did bitchslap Ancic in 4 on that Friday :p

But thats not the point. Ljubo had one good year in DC, Roddick's been doing it his whole career.

Yes but Roddick has never been able to lead his team to victory like Ljubo.

Johnny Groove
04-09-2007, 03:05 AM
Yes but Roddick has never been able to lead his team to victory like Ljubo.

What are you talking about? How many times has Blake sucked and Roddick had to pick up the slack? And besides, we're gonna win it this year :p

Sjengster
04-09-2007, 03:05 AM
I dont consider a 5 set win over Roddick to be a "bitch-slapping". However, Roddick did bitchslap Ancic in 4 on that Friday :p

But thats not the point. Ljubo had one good year in DC, Roddick's been doing it his whole career.

But he did have several unique achievements in that win over the US - first player to beat the US team twice in DC, both home and away (winning all six points), first time the US had ever lost a first round tie on home soil, he and Ancic were the first, and so far only, players to defeat the Bryans in DC.... it's impressive stuff. Putting together such a strong record in both singles and doubles is what makes him really stand out, and it's not as though Youzhny and Davydenko in the semis were easy opposition either.

RickDaStick
04-09-2007, 03:07 AM
What are you talking about? How many times has Blake sucked and Roddick had to pick up the slack? And besides, we're gonna win it this year :p

By victory i meant winning it all. Also ancic has a bad singles record and its always ljubo saving the team and Ivan always plays doubles something that Roddick never does.

Johnny Groove
04-09-2007, 03:09 AM
But he did have several unique achievements in that win over the US - first player to beat the US team twice in DC, both home and away (winning all six points), first time the US had ever lost a first round tie on home soil, he and Ancic were the first, and so far only, players to defeat the Bryans in DC.... it's impressive stuff. Putting together such a strong record in both singles and doubles is what makes him really stand out, and it's not as though Youzhny and Davydenko in the semis were easy opposition either.

ok, he had one of the best DC years ever in 05. But Roddick always shows up, and always plays well, every time he plays.

Johnny Groove
04-09-2007, 03:11 AM
By victory i meant winning it all. Also ancic has a bad singles record and its always ljubo saving the team and Ivan always plays doubles something that Roddick never does.

Roddick doesnt play doubles because we have one of the all time greatest doubles teams in the Bryans playing :rolleyes: You're gonna hold that against him?

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 03:18 AM
I dont consider a 5 set win over Roddick to be a "bitch-slapping". However, Roddick did bitchslap Ancic in 4 on that Friday :p

But thats not the point. Ljubo had one good year in DC, Roddick's been doing it his whole career.

Big deal. Better once winning than many finals.

Yes but Roddick has never been able to lead his team to victory like Ljubo.

True.

But he did have several unique achievements in that win over the US - first player to beat the US team twice in DC, both home and away (winning all six points), first time the US had ever lost a first round tie on home soil, he and Ancic were the first, and so far only, players to defeat the Bryans in DC.... it's impressive stuff. Putting together such a strong record in both singles and doubles is what makes him really stand out, and it's not as though Youzhny and Davydenko in the semis were easy opposition either.

Exactly, that's what I'm talking about. :)

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 03:19 AM
Roddick doesnt play doubles because we have one of the all time greatest doubles teams in the Bryans playing :rolleyes: You're gonna hold that against him?

If he did play, he'd only embarass himself with that netplay. :lol:

sykotique
04-09-2007, 03:24 AM
Roddick doesnt play doubles because we have one of the all time greatest doubles teams in the Bryans playing :rolleyes: You're gonna hold that against him?

It's not about holding anything against Roddick. The fact is, Roddick has never had to carry the US team on his back the way Ljubicic has. Simple fact.

Sofyaxo
04-09-2007, 03:27 AM
Weird title for a Roddick vs Ljubicic DC thread.:rolleyes:

Marat is an amazing DC player, he always comes out for his team when it matters. He doesn't oaf there for some reason which is always good. It's part of the reason the Russian team is so great. Their a good unit and all the players normally step up when they need too.

MarieS
04-09-2007, 03:47 AM
If someone came in here and said milk is white, you'd all start arguing about it :rolleyes:. "well it's not TECHNICALLY white"..."but snow is whiter..."

You can argue that Safin is perhaps not the best contemporary player (he certainly is in a distinguished company), but to start claiming that his record is not all that impressive is simply ridiculous. Stop arguing with facts when they are staring you right in the face.

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 04:17 AM
So defeating no-ones like Mathieu on clay at home is impressive? :scratch:

Emilio
04-09-2007, 04:25 AM
Another player who owns at home is MAX mirnyi, his first loose was this year...wow

MarieS
04-09-2007, 04:29 AM
So defeating no-ones like Mathieu on clay at home is impressive? :scratch:

No. Clinching 5 ties for your country is. Going on a 13-1 run is. Having an overall 28-18 record is. Winning 2 Davis Cups is. Being dedicated to it since the second till you turned pro till probably the second you retire and beyond is. But obviously, he can't compare to the likes of Roddick, Ljubicic and Nalbandian. No chance. :)
And c'mon, having a great team around him does not negate any of his accomplishments; he has been a centerpiece to every run they have had. You can go ahead and argue that he hasn't, but that's just your prerogative :shrug:.(Obviously Roddick has not benefited from having a sure point from the Bryans every tie, and Nalbandian and Ljubicic have won all three points for their respective teams in every tie they have played :worship:, but let's not belittle their accomplishments by bringing them into a conversation about such a joke DC player as Safin)

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 04:36 AM
Another player who owns at home is MAX mirnyi, his first loose was this year...wow

He was sick when Sweden defeated Belarus. :sad: Amazing record.

No. Clinching 5 ties for your country is. Going on a 13-1 run is. Having an overall 28-18 record is. Winning 2 Davis Cups is. Being dedicated to it since the second till you turned pro till probably the second you retire and beyond is. But obviously, he can't compare to the likes of Roddick, Ljubicic and Nalbandian. No chance. :)
And c'mon, having a great team around him does not negate any of his accomplishments; he has been a centerpiece to every run they have had. You can go ahead and argue that he hasn't, but that's just your prerogative :shrug:.(Obviously Roddick has not benefited from having a sure point from the Bryans every tie, and Nalbandian and Ljubicic have won all three points for their respective teams in every tie they have played :worship:, but let's not belittle their accomplishments by bringing them into a conversation about such a joke DC player as Safin)

Safin is a good DC player, but never won a tie alone, unlike Ljubicic and Nalbandian.

JBdV
04-09-2007, 04:43 AM
I always think the greatest single performance in DC in recent times was Escude in 2001, simply because he won all of his matches away from home, three of them in five sets, all of those three from two sets to one down.... two of them finished 8-6 in the fifth, the other was when he beat the newly crowned world no. 1 Hewitt in Melbourne in the final.

:haha: As if anyone else here would give a player like Escudé some credit. Nice try though...

MarieS
04-09-2007, 04:44 AM
Safin is a good DC player, but never won a tie alone, unlike Ljubicic and Nalbandian.

Did you just put "Safin" and "good player" in any context in the same sentence? :eek: Well my work here is done :worship: :cool:.
He hasn't won a tie alone because he's never been forced into a situation where he's had to :shrug:. It's not his fault that he has so many good players and such a good captain around him, I don't get how you can hold that against him :rolls:. And before you say "and therefore, he's not the best DC player of his generation", i KNOW he isn't, I don't agree with the premise of the thread, I disagree with the "well he's actually crap" discussion that followed. :)

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 04:45 AM
Did you just put "Safin" and "good player" in any context in the same sentence? :eek: Well my work here is done :worship: :cool:.
He hasn't won a tie alone because he's never been forced into a situation where he's had to :shrug:. It's not his fault that he has so many good players and such a good captain around him, I don't get how you can hold that against him :rolls:. And before you say "and therefore, he's not the best DC player of his generation", i KNOW he isn't, I don't agree with the premise of the thread, I disagree with the "well he's actually crap" discussion that followed. :)

He was forced to that in Chile, but couldn't win the doubles tie. ;)

MarieS
04-09-2007, 04:50 AM
He was forced to that in Chile, but couldn't win the doubles tie. ;)

Wait wait, but I thought Andreev was one of the many reasons why he's been so successful in Davis Cup and would otherwise be worthy fill in to lead Russia to DC victories :scratch: :p.
And if my memory serves correctly, I believe Ljubo had Ancic on court with him for the doubles matches so he didn't win it BY HIMSELF...I could be wrong though :shrug:.

GlennMirnyi
04-09-2007, 04:55 AM
Wait wait, but I thought Andreev was one of the many reasons why he's been so successful in Davis Cup and would otherwise be worthy fill in to lead Russia to DC victories :scratch: :p.
And if my memory serves correctly, I believe Ljubo had Ancic on court with him for the doubles matches so he didn't win it BY HIMSELF...I could be wrong though :shrug:.

Ancic was always-choke prone and yes, Ljubicic carried him in doubles.

Andreev made the upset, it's different. Under normal conditions, Gonzalez would have won and Safin would be obliged to win doubles with Andreev.

Action Jackson
04-09-2007, 06:15 AM
An excellent DC player, but many others have been mentioned already. Well no Ljubo, then Croatia doesn't win the Davis Cup in 2005, it's that simple.

You have to look at the respective teams as well.

jazar
04-09-2007, 07:50 AM
safin seems to raise his game when playing DC, cos the pressure from the russian fans is greater. his rises to the occasion. truly one of the greats. and he has a personality, unlike ljubicic

AnnaK_4ever
04-09-2007, 10:25 AM
Safin in Moscow 19-4
Safin 'away' 10-14

He's one of the best DC 'home' players, that's for sure. But his overall record (29-18) is rather mediocre. BUT

1) before 2002 Safin went 9-10 in DC matches; since 2002 Safin is 20-8 in DC matches

2) Safin first joined the team in 1998. Since then Russians have played 26 DC ties winning 19 of them.
When Safin ON team Russia is 16-4 in Davis Cup ties.
When Safin OFF team Russia is 3-3 in Davis Cup ties.

Since 2001 Russia is 15-4 in DC ties.
WITH Safin we're 12-1,
WITHOUT Safin we're 3-3

So my point is no matter if Safin's winning or losing -> he is the team itself.

tcorinna
04-09-2007, 10:35 AM
Safin in Moscow 19-4
Safin 'away' 10-14

He's one of the best DC 'home' players, that's for sure. But his overall record (29-18) is rather mediocre. BUT

1) before 2002 Safin went 9-10 in DC matches; since 2002 Safin is 20-8 in DC matches

2) Safin first joined the team in 1998. Since then Russians have played 26 DC ties winning 19 of them.
When Safin ON team Russia is 16-4 in Davis Cup ties.
When Safin OFF team Russia is 3-3 in Davis Cup ties.

Since 2001 Russia is 15-4 in DC ties.
WITH Safin we're 12-1,
WITHOUT Safin we're 3-3

So my point is no matter if Safin's winning or losing -> he is the team itself.

:yeah: :yeah: Marat rulz :woohoo: :woohoo:

Damita
04-09-2007, 11:18 AM
I always think the greatest single performance in DC in recent times was Escude in 2001, simply because he won all of his matches away from home, three of them in five sets, all of those three from two sets to one down.... two of them finished 8-6 in the fifth, the other was when he beat the newly crowned world no. 1 Hewitt in Melbourne in the final.Escudé was an awesome DC player!! :worship: such a huge fighting spirit, gosh I miss him :sad:


Safin is a good DC player, but never won a tie alone, unlike Ljubicic and Nalbandian.
He was close to do it in the 2002 final though. He carried Kafel in doubles. Had this one not being half asleep during the whole match (and yet they were close to win it!!), the tie would have been over with the victory of Marat over Grosjean the next day.
(but :yeah: for Misha, I don't regret the way it ended at all... except for the trauma it caused to Paulo that is :o)

stebs
04-09-2007, 12:47 PM
I don't think so. Hewitt is above him and everyone else and Nalby has the right to claim equal status. Ljubicic is also there or there abouts, even Federer has a far better DC record although it must be said that on the whole it has been against weaker opposition.

Marat has been an integral part of the DC team for a long time but his record has to be looked at and it is good, not great.

Loremaster
04-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Safin not he can "only" get Second Place - Lleyon Hewitt without any competition near I still love to watch that 2003 match against Federer when he comeback from 5-7 2-6 3-5 it was one of the the biggest comebacks in tennis history , especially after watching how Lleyton was outplayed in second set

Reading this I just got impression and all those Safin lovers has never heard about Lleyton Hewitt

NYCtennisfan
04-09-2007, 02:13 PM
No, it's Hewitt because Hewitt and Safin are contemporaries.

mer
04-09-2007, 02:42 PM
Reading this I just got impression and all those Safin lovers has never heard about Lleyton Hewitt
Did you read carefully? Except for the thread starter nobody here in this thread incl. so called Safin lovers said that Marat is the best DC player.

Lleytonisthebest
04-09-2007, 03:19 PM
marat safin and lleyton hewitt are actually the best DC players. who will win in DC in a match ?? i don't really now maybe a slight advantage for safin

ys
04-09-2007, 05:13 PM
Reading this I just got impression and all those Safin lovers has never heard about Lleyton Hewitt

You mean the guy who - being at his prime age - lost to _Vliegen_ to hand Belgium a Davis Cup win and put his country at real danger of relegation?

gulzhan
04-10-2007, 04:18 AM
Since 2001 Russia is 15-4 in DC ties.
WITH Safin we're 12-1,
WITHOUT Safin we're 3-3

So my point is no matter if Safin's winning or losing -> he is the team itself.

I missed this nice discussion :sad:

I agree with Anna and it could be a good summarizing point--- Safin is the DC team leader and the guarantee of the victory :worship: It matters a lot for the young players to be behind such a "broad back" (Russian expression :lol:) I guess that is what this thread is about....

alexa18
04-10-2007, 05:12 AM
Safin not he can "only" get Second Place - Lleyon Hewitt without any competition near I still love to watch that 2003 match against Federer when he comeback from 5-7 2-6 3-5 it was one of the the biggest comebacks in tennis history , especially after watching how Lleyton was outplayed in second set

Reading this I just got impression and all those Safin lovers has never heard about Lleyton Hewitt

Lleyton Hewitt has been a real hero for my country (Aussieland) yes, being part of two cups, but so has Safin for Russia. They also have had silly losses for their country too. Equal no. 1 davis cup players, Safin and Hewitt.:D

Loremaster
04-10-2007, 07:08 AM
You mean the guy who - being at his prime age - lost to _Vliegen_ to hand Belgium a Davis Cup win and put his country at real danger of relegation?

you post is pure manipulation , Hewitt was nowhere in his prime when he lost to Vliegen

nicole_s
04-10-2007, 09:16 AM
congrats,marat! it's always nice to see players dedicated to their country!

Conita
04-10-2007, 12:58 PM
you have to see their records really, everything else is biased
yes Safin is a good davis cup player but he's part of a team, and without the team his record is far from invinsible, he's 28-18 compared to Ljubicic who is 36-18 or Hewitt's 33-10.
if we are talking about individuals then no Safin isn't the best DC player.
if you're talking about Russia THE TEAM then yes they are probably the best DC team of the recent years.

Loremaster
04-10-2007, 12:59 PM
Lleyton Hewitt has been a real hero for my country (Aussieland) yes, being part of two cups, but so has Safin for Russia. They also have had silly losses for their country too. Equal no. 1 davis cup players, Safin and Hewitt.:D

Hewitt record 33-10
and what is worht to tell is fact that Hewitt had/has much weaker them than Russia he hardly ever had reliable on surface second player and Marat was always part of great team

Safin 28-18 not really great , in the same way we can make Roddick the best with 22-9 record without him USA also was losing as well as Australia with without Lleyton

I would put Marat on strong second palce but he is nowhere near Lleyton
loss to Vliegen was painfull but with Guccione as second player Lleyton was the one to have whole team play on his shoulder situation not familiar to Safin

also look at McEnroe record it is unreal 59-10 - 41-8 in singles - UNREAL

bokehlicious
04-10-2007, 02:21 PM
If federer love his country like they, Swiss army could win it several times, but roger is not as patriotic as safin or the other players..

Here we go again... :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

mer
04-10-2007, 02:23 PM
Here we go again... :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
why does this 'patriotic' :bs: bother you so much ?

bokehlicious
04-10-2007, 02:24 PM
That's because Federer is making history. As Roddick has the idea he can't do the same, he's trying the DC.


Stop making sense ;) and let the haters believe Roger's just an egoistic unpatriotic prick...

bokehlicious
04-10-2007, 02:26 PM
why does this 'patriotic' :bs: bother you so much ?

Because he actually IS ! If he wasn't chasing History books he'd play DC just like he did before he became that dominant player !

ys
04-10-2007, 05:30 PM
I would put Marat on strong second palce but he is nowhere near Lleyton
loss to Vliegen was painfull but with Guccione as second player Lleyton was the one to have whole team play on his shoulder situation not familiar to Safin


Hewitt didn't need Guccione to defeat Belgians. He needed to beat Vliegen. Just that.

Loremaster
04-10-2007, 05:49 PM
To you read what I am writing I just said that Hewitt was hardly ever back up by such strong team as Safin so his work was harder and you are jumping out of cake with Belgium, Hewitt was in slump when he played Belgium playing only few matches whole year ad was coming from injury do you get it ??

Look at Hewitt DC record 33-10(77%) and compare with Safin's 28-18(60%) can you see huge difference ?? that is how big the gap is between Lleyton and Marat considering DC + add the fact that Safin was ALWAYS backed up other great players

ys
04-10-2007, 06:26 PM
To you read what I am writing I just said that Hewitt was hardly ever back up by such strong team as Safin


For at least half of his DC career he was backed up as strong as you can be having guys like Rafter, Scud and Woodies with you, save for very dangerous in home ties Arthurs..

Safin, since his DC career really took off in 2002, was only backed up by a quickly fading Kafelnikov. In all other cases it was other guys who unexpectedly elevated their level because of feeling confident playing with such leader as Marat.

Look at Hewitt DC record 33-10(77%) and compare with Safin's 28-18(60%) can you see huge difference ?? that is how big the gap is between Lleyton and Marat considering DC + add the fact that Safin was ALWAYS backed up other great players

Just like games and sets are meaningless in a tennis match, a separate rubber is meaningless outside of a tie result. Tennis is a binary sport. The score is meaningless. It is either win or loss that only matters. There is only one statistics that counts in Davis Cup. Tie being won or lost. All the rest is nothing. DC tennis is a team sport and it's not only individual wins that a player brings to the DC team. Confidence. Trust. Support. Team spirit. It is much much more than just individual wins or losses. Russia is 13-1 with Safin in this century. Russia is 3-3 without him. Enuf said.

thrust
04-10-2007, 10:44 PM
Well at least something gives him motivation! Unfortunately he is not going to be remembered as a great DC player, but an overall underachiever, if he doesn^t win more tournaments and a couple more Slams.

Snowwy
04-10-2007, 11:28 PM
Llyeton Hewitt is the best DC player of today's era.