Ranking points might be given out for Davis Cup play [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Ranking points might be given out for Davis Cup play

Deboogle!.
03-24-2007, 04:45 PM
I didn't see this posted and the GM search function isn't working for me so if it was posted already, I apologize :)

Anyway, interesting idea. Not sure how I feel yet. I like the idea of the guys who play wanting to play because of the love of Davis Cup. But it might get some of the top players to play more.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/tennis/article1560422.ece

Ranking points may be given in Davis Cup
Neil Harman, Tennis Correspondent in Miami, Florida

It will come too late to help Tim Henman’s cause but the prospect of ranking points being awarded for participation in the Davis Cup is the most profound change being considered to enhance the championship and sustain the support of the world’s leading players.

Henman’s reacquaintance with the competition from which he retired two years ago will be confirmed when he joins the Great Britain squad — Andy Murray, Greg Rusedski, Jamie Murray, Jamie Baker and Richard Broomfield are the others — for the zonal tie against the Netherlands in Birmingham from April 6-8. And, to content British hearts, there were flashes during his first-round defeat by Guillermo Cañas, from Argentina, in the Sony Ericsson Open here when the clock had been rewound to Henman at his peak.

Just imagine to where Henman might have climbed had ranking points for the cup been part of the package. As negotiations continue between the ITF, which owns the Davis Cup, and the ATP over prospective dates for the 2009 event — players want ties staged the week immediately after grand-slam tournaments rather than a week later — the most intriguing factor would be the approval of points for results.

For once in tennis, here is a strategy from which everyone gains. By 2009, Henman may well have kicked off his court shoes — he may even be the captain — though there was an hour-long cameo deep into a breezy Thursday night when it seemed that the 32-year-old had been supping from the fountain of eternal youth. Unfortunately, the match lasted an hour and 52 minutes.

Such is life for Henman these days. A second first-round defeat in successive Masters events does not sit well. He says that he will be physically fine for his first best-of-five-set match since the second round of last year’s US Open, when he plays singles against the Netherlands. But how many more defeats — it is one win in four matches since his return after a four-month absence — will he swallow? “I’ve always had a good perspective,” he said after his 3-6, 6-2, 6-1 loss, “and now with a family, you’re able to shake it off and put it behind you. But. . .I’m putting in a lot of work and I want to see the results.”

RickDaStick
03-24-2007, 04:48 PM
Terrible idea.

Jimnik
03-24-2007, 04:48 PM
The article seems to be more about Henman than about Davis Cup.

LocoPorElTenis
03-24-2007, 04:54 PM
Is this for real? If it is, it's one of the stupidest ideas ever :help:

MissPovaFan
03-24-2007, 04:56 PM
Very bad idea :mad: Totally unfair.

scoobs
03-24-2007, 05:00 PM
I'm not against the idea in theory but I struggle to see how it would work in practise without being grossly unfair to some players.

bluefork
03-24-2007, 05:03 PM
It sounds like a bad idea. Maybe it will attract more top players, maybe it won't. But it's certainly gives an unfair advantage to players who come from strong tennis countries. Not much in it for guys like Baghdatis and Nieminen.

NicoFan
03-24-2007, 05:06 PM
That's not fair to the guys who don't play. What are they talking about that everyone gains. :confused: What about guys who play for countries that don't have many players and don't stay in the running long? This only helps the big countries who have a lot of players.

Everything decision lately is for the "top" players and the "big" countries.

Screw tennis. :mad:

Merton
03-24-2007, 05:11 PM
I don't see how it can work in principle since Davis Cup is a team competition and they are talking about awarding individual points. For example, it must be the case that wins at later stages of the competition are worth more than earlier wins in terms of points. However, the team advanced to the later stages through the joint efforts of its members. Awarding points to an individual discounts this joint effort aspect of the competition.

Black Adam
03-24-2007, 05:12 PM
Top players will have to play for their countries which would solve our current problem aka Federer.

Burrow
03-24-2007, 05:28 PM
This would be great for Safin's rank.

Deboogle!.
03-24-2007, 05:28 PM
The article seems to be more about Henman than about Davis Cup.It's the London Times what do you expect :p

gusman890
03-24-2007, 05:35 PM
its a terrible idea.

you play if you want to, you shouldnt force them.

ezekiel
03-24-2007, 05:39 PM
what is davis cup and why should I care about it :rolleyes:

zicofirol
03-24-2007, 05:40 PM
bad idea, plus is Marcos baghdatis or Niemenen's win in division 2 going to count the same as Gonzalez beating Safin in World Group? I dont think so but neither baghdatis nor niemenen have the fault of not having anyone else good on their team so they must play in Europe II...

And off course its unfair to lower ranked players who are left of their squads, while top players get the opportunity to get more points...

nobama
03-24-2007, 05:41 PM
Dumb idea. As others have said, DC is team competition. Makes no sense to give out ranking points to individuals.

nobama
03-24-2007, 05:42 PM
Top players will have to play for their countries which would solve our current problem aka Federer.Good god I hope they don't implement something this stupid just to try and force Federer to play. DC is surviving just fine without him. :rolleyes:

Sjengster
03-24-2007, 05:44 PM
Well it would certainly improve the image of the competition if the world's top player actually took part in it, but if they seriously had to offer him ranking points as an incentive, I'd rather he didn't bother.

Beforehand
03-24-2007, 05:45 PM
It's not like Federer's magically going to play for the points, either. He doesn't exactly hurt for points.

Horatio Caine
03-24-2007, 05:46 PM
That's not fair to the guys who don't play. What are they talking about that everyone gains. :confused: What about guys who play for countries that don't have many players and don't stay in the running long? This only helps the big countries who have a lot of players.

Everything decision lately is for the "top" players and the "big" countries.

Screw tennis. :mad:

Couldn't have been put any better :worship:

uglyamerican
03-24-2007, 05:50 PM
It's not like Federer's magically going to play for the points, either. He doesn't exactly hurt for points.

Everyone should get one cow for playing in Davis Cup. Ranking points for DC seems like a good idea for about 5 seconds, but there is no way to implement it.

Beforehand
03-24-2007, 06:06 PM
Federer would play every tie possible for a cow.

scoobs
03-24-2007, 06:14 PM
Everyone should get one cow for playing in Davis Cup. Ranking points for DC seems like a good idea for about 5 seconds, but there is no way to implement it.
Yeah that's my take on it.

Some are against the idea on principle. I'm not.

But actually implementing it fairly? It's hard to see how it could be done without massive inconsistencies and loopholes. I don't see how you can apply solo points to team players.

Deboogle!.
03-24-2007, 06:15 PM
Some are against the idea on principle. I'm not.

But actually implementing it fairly? It's hard to see how it could be done without massive inconsistencies and loopholes. I don't see how you can apply solo points to team players.that's where I'm at. I'm all for thinking of new ways to get the top players to play DC, but i can't think of a way it could work with rankings points.

Horatio Caine
03-24-2007, 06:22 PM
I don't like to sound pessimistic, but some players like team competitions and some don't. It is as simple as that. I don't think anything can be done to coax those that aren't bothered to play (apart from hand out huge payouts to them...which won't [I hope] happen).

What I do want to see is an end to inequality though...the Karlovic pay issue, for instance, is a complete disgrace.

NicoFan
03-24-2007, 06:30 PM
What I do want to see is an end to inequality though...the Karlovic pay issue, for instance, is a complete disgrace.

What happened with Ivo? :confused:

GlennMirnyi
03-24-2007, 06:31 PM
Voltchkov would love this idea. :p :D

Horatio Caine
03-24-2007, 06:35 PM
What happened with Ivo? :confused:

Well, the Croatards know the full story, but if I recall correctly, Ivo got 9% from the Croatian Tennis Federation, whilst Ljubo and Ancic pretty much cleaned up with the rest of the handouts. Obviously Ivo doesn't have a huge role to play in the team, but he is a worthy 3rd player and a true top 70 player. He deserves much more respect than that and I'm not surprised he walked :lol:

nobama
03-24-2007, 06:36 PM
The womens tour has a much bigger problem with top players choosing not to play Fed Cup. The ATP should stop trying to fix problems that don't exist.

scoobs
03-24-2007, 06:37 PM
There seems to me to be a couple of major issues to overcome.

1) How do you avoid penalising smaller tennis nations without a long tennis tradition, like Cyprus.

2) How do you distribute points when it's a team event and not all the team may play in a particular tie

3) How do you avoid penalising players who CAN'T get into the DC team because their country is so strong that there have a good enough field not to need to pick you - like the USA, France, Argentina, etc.

scoobs
03-24-2007, 06:39 PM
The womens tour has a much bigger problem with top players choosing not to play Fed Cup. The ATP should stop trying to fix problems that don't exist.
It's a fair point. Federer aside, the Davis Cup has NOT struggled to get the very best players to play in recent years. If anything we have a more committed bunch of players to DC than we've had in a long time.

NicoFan
03-24-2007, 06:40 PM
Well, the Croatards know the full story, but if I recall correctly, Ivo got 9% from the Croatian Tennis Federation, whilst Ljubo and Ancic pretty much cleaned up with the rest of the handouts. Obviously Ivo doesn't have a huge role to play in the team, but he is a worthy 3rd player and a true top 70 player. He deserves much more respect than that and I'm not surprised he walked :lol:

Thanks. :)

Poor Ivo.. :hug:

I like DC, but at the same time, it's a major headache too for players in some countires. Some countries take it wayyyy too seriously.

NicoFan
03-24-2007, 06:41 PM
3) How do you avoid penalising players who CAN'T get into the DC team because their country is so strong that there have a good enough field not to need to pick you - like the USA, France, Argentina, etc.

Good point - I hadn't thought of that one, but very true.

nobama
03-24-2007, 06:45 PM
It's a fair point. Federer aside, the Davis Cup has NOT struggled to get the very best players to play in recent years. If anything we have a more committed bunch of players to DC than we've had in a long time.
Disney is very good at trying to create solutions for problems that don't exist. I don't know who's idea this is but there's really only one 'top player' who's said that DC isn't his top priority now - Federer. DC didn't need Sampras to survive and they don't need Federer either. Whatever happens I sincerely hope they think everything through before the implement anything otherwise we'll have another RR fiasco on our hands.

NicoFan
03-24-2007, 06:53 PM
Disney is very good at trying to create solutions for problems that don't exist. I don't know who's idea this is but there's really only one 'top player' who's said that DC isn't his top priority now - Federer. DC didn't need Sampras to survive and they don't need Federer either. Whatever happens I sincerely hope they think everything through before the implement anything otherwise we'll have another RR fiasco on our hands.

Agree Mirkaland.

Would be nice if Fed played DC, but for some players, it's not their thing or in Fed's case, it isn't his priority at the moment. And that's up to them. They shouldn't be criticized for it or forced into it.

There's too many holes in this (like RR). Since the ITF is involved, let's hope there's some type of check on Mr. Disney's lack of knowledge about the sport...but I'm not holding my breathe.

R.Federer
03-24-2007, 07:07 PM
Why don't countries like the UK and Switzerland who are worried their best players are not showing up for this just offer a big monetary incentive as a private deal between themselves if they want, and leave the ATP ranking points out of it?

Action Jackson
03-25-2007, 06:52 AM
Since Ricci Bitti (head of ITF) has no time for Mr.Disney, seriously I don't see this happening.

As for the idea, just an Aero bar, a whole lot of nothing.

anna10
03-25-2007, 10:53 AM
There seems to me to be a couple of major issues to overcome.

1) How do you avoid penalising smaller tennis nations without a long tennis tradition, like Cyprus.

2) How do you distribute points when it's a team event and not all the team may play in a particular tie

3) How do you avoid penalising players who CAN'T get into the DC team because their country is so strong that there have a good enough field not to need to pick you - like the USA, France, Argentina, etc.
Exactly my first thoughts on it. I didn't totally dismiss the idea on first reading it, but don't see how this can really be done fairly.

CooCooCachoo
03-25-2007, 10:55 AM
Horrible idea.

~EMiLiTA~
03-25-2007, 01:00 PM
oh please no

my0118
03-25-2007, 01:37 PM
Mr Disney wants to transform ATP into Disney World.

Tzar
03-25-2007, 03:55 PM
GREAT IDEA!.. :o sorry its my opinion!

oz_boz
03-26-2007, 11:44 AM
Agree with posters above, sounds nice but I don't see how to overcome the obvious problems mentioned.

Fumus
03-26-2007, 02:42 PM
Players should want to play Davis Cup for their country, not for individual gain, will the ATP be awarding prize money too? Maybe they should institute a free agency after that as well, so that way say...US could buy Roger Federer to play for the American team, or maybe a couple clay specialists for those tricky rubbers that are played away on clay...lol. C'mon it's DC...that means you are doing it for pride, that should be enough of a reward, no?

gusman890
03-26-2007, 02:53 PM
DC is more for bragging rights then anything else :)

keqtqiadv
03-26-2007, 03:11 PM
:help:

Deboogle!.
04-13-2007, 05:21 PM
Davis Cup could affect rankings
BBC Sport

Davis Cup wins could boost players' world rankings in the future, under proposals being discussed by the bodies that govern world and men's tennis.

Francesco Ricci Bitti, the president of the ITF, told BBC Sport: "The ITF is holding discussions with the ATP about future dates for Davis Cup.

"Part of this has been a consideration to offer points for the Davis Cup."

Ricci Bitti added that he would resist calls for the current structure of the Davis Cup to be changed.

"I believe in the current format," said Ricci Bitti.

"When, mainly in the United States, some people say 'we have to change the format', I never heard anybody coming up with a really interesting alternative.

"We are ready to listen, but the Davis Cup has both a sport value and a financial value.

"Nobody has come up with an attractive proposal on both sides. The 'home and away' beauty of the competition is very important."

However, Ricci Bitti said the ITF was developing a "surface rating system" that would prevent teams from choosing "extreme surface conditions" for their home ties.

"This is being developed by the ITF science and technical department in a bid to eliminate extreme surface conditions in the Davis Cup and Fed Cup," he said.

"Although host nations can continue to choose the surface, we want to ensure it is as fair as possible."