Players "giving" points to each other [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Players "giving" points to each other

RickDaStick
03-16-2007, 03:55 PM
Last night Ivan and Andy both gave each other a point early on in the match. I have also seen Moya give Ivan a point when he had MP and he ended up losing that set but won the next. Also if im not mistaken didnt Roddick do the same to Verdasco in Rome on MP and ended up losing the match. What is your guys' take on this? Should the players be generous from time to time or should they just let the umpire and the line judges do their job?

Black Adam
03-16-2007, 04:00 PM
I am ok with the players giving points because sometimes the Umpires are just plain wrong in their decisions. It also shows a sense of Fair play from the player who gives the point: he prefers to be fair rather than win through the Umpires error. I also remeber Jimmy Connors serving a double fault on purpose in order to to return a previous point on which Newcombe had been cheated by an Umpire's mistake.

tangerine_dream
03-16-2007, 04:01 PM
Annoying.

Andy and Ivan were acting like those two exceedingly polite chipmunks from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. "Excuse me but that was your point not mine." "Oh, you're too kind, are you sure it wasn't my error?" "I insist, that point was yours." "Oh, you shouldn't have. Thank you!"

Bring back the stare downs and trash talking. If Andy and Ivan keep being nice to one another how am I supposed to continue being a thorn in the Croaties sides. :(

Caren
03-16-2007, 04:04 PM
Annoying.

Andy and Ivan were acting like those two exceedingly polite chipmunks from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. "Excuse me but that was your point not mine." "Oh, you're too kind, are you sure it wasn't my error?" "I insist, that point was yours." "Oh, you shouldn't have. Thank you!"

Bring back the stare downs and trash talking. If Andy and Ivan keep being nice to one another how am I supposed to continue being a thorn in the Croaties sides. :(

:LOL: AMEN

scoobs
03-16-2007, 04:09 PM
I bet Connors was not impressed by that.

"Every point is mine - except the ones he steals from me."

I saw Safin and Gaudio do this in Valencia last year in the QFs - no less than three times on serves. 2 to 1 in Safin's favour IIRC. All three occasions the player served and it was called good but both thought it was out. They looked at the official, then the server served the second serve as though the call had been made. The umpire chose not to get involved.

NicoFan
03-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Annoying.

Andy and Ivan were acting like those two exceedingly polite chipmunks from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. "Excuse me but that was your point not mine." "Oh, you're too kind, are you sure it wasn't my error?" "I insist, that point was yours." "Oh, you shouldn't have. Thank you!"

Bring back the stare downs and trash talking. If Andy and Ivan keep being nice to one another how am I supposed to continue being a thorn in the Croaties sides. :(

:worship:

Sports are not about being nice. Screw nice.

It is about glaring and staring and trying to intimidate your opponent.

No such thing as a "gentlemen's sport".

Action Jackson
03-16-2007, 04:14 PM
It depends on the players involved, if they can see it was a clear error and Norm Chryst who was never been gifted with good eyesight, then no problem with it.

It's easy to do on clay and I am fine with it. I remember Rafter did it and lost the match and I know Wilander when he first won RG in his semi, asked for the point to be replayed on his match point when a dud call went in his favour.

The Coria and Horna incident at Hamburg was hilarious.

Action Jackson
03-16-2007, 04:16 PM
:worship:

Sports are not about being nice. Screw nice.

It is about glaring and staring and trying to intimidate your opponent.

No such thing as a "gentlemen's sport".

Only when it suits the particular player you like. But, yes Connors and McEnroe's behaviour was a wonderful example as entertaining as it was. It was so wonderful that the Code of Conduct Rules got changed cause of them.

gusman890
03-16-2007, 04:17 PM
its okay once in a while,

since it was still early, its not a big deal.

KrisJB
03-16-2007, 04:27 PM
What was this Rafter's match? I remember his correction at set point against Czesnokow in Adelaide which cost him the set and the match.

Action Jackson
03-16-2007, 04:30 PM
What was this Rafter's match? I remember his correction at set point against Czesnokow in Adelaide which cost him the set and the match.

It was Cherkasov and a point was given to him when it shouldn't have been and he said no and they replayed it.

KrisJB
03-16-2007, 04:37 PM
And there was another famous story against Muster in the 3 round of Roland Garros when Muster questioned Rafter winners and finally frustrated Pat served the ball pretty hard down the middle and showed the mark.

Kalliopeia
03-16-2007, 04:38 PM
Annoying.

Andy and Ivan were acting like those two exceedingly polite chipmunks from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. "Excuse me but that was your point not mine." "Oh, you're too kind, are you sure it wasn't my error?" "I insist, that point was yours." "Oh, you shouldn't have. Thank you!"

:haha: :worship:

Kalliopeia
03-16-2007, 04:42 PM
The Coria and Horna incident at Hamburg was hilarious.

What happened?

Action Jackson
03-16-2007, 04:46 PM
And there was another famous story against Muster in the 3 round of Roland Garros when Muster questioned Rafter winners and finally frustrated Pat served the ball pretty hard down the middle and showed the mark.

That match was dirty for sure, but funny and Rafter jumped the net and circled the mark.

Muster was trying to rub the balls on the clay to slow them down, fact was he hated playing serve/volleyers and that tactic wasn't going to wok.

bluefork
03-16-2007, 04:46 PM
I'm pretty sure Roddick didn't give Ivan the point early on in the match. I'm quite sure I heard the umpire overrule.

Action Jackson
03-16-2007, 04:50 PM
What happened?

The linespeople were sleeping or something and they were making poor calls and the players were correcting them, it was mostly Coria.

Coria serves a massive double fault, that not even the officials couldn't miss and Horna walks to the other side.

Coria calls out to him "What are you doing, I give you a few of these calls ( points were replayed) and then you give me nothing.

Horna says "I couldn't give you that it was too far out and they kept mouthing and Lucho said "Just be quiet and play I am not Gaudio, I will actually hit you".

Bobby
03-16-2007, 04:59 PM
If a player knows that he doesn't deserve a point even though the umpire has given it to him, then I think it's fair that he gives the point away. Let's face it, if there was a player who never gave away a point even though everyone saw that he didn't win it, he would be called a cheater.

Tennis is a game of gentlemen!

Balerion
03-16-2007, 05:04 PM
If anyone seriously has a problem with the sportsmanship displayed when a player overrules a call made in his favor, then clearly that person has an axe to grind with the player involved.


It shouldn't be frowned upon for the same reason that diving shouldn't be admired in football.

Kalliopeia
03-16-2007, 05:10 PM
Horna says "I couldn't give you that it was too far out and they kept mouthing and Lucho said "Just be quiet and play I am not Gaudio, I will actually hit you".

Ha! Thanks. That is funny.

NicoFan
03-16-2007, 05:14 PM
As we can see from Hawk-eye, many of the players are WRONG when they are calling the lines.

So if a player gives a point to his opponent when he thinks that the ball may have been in when it was called out, he may be wrong about what he saw.

You go by what the linesperson or chair umpire or hawk-eye says no matter what you think.

As they say, it all evens out in the end. Sometimes you get a call that goes your way, sometimes you don't. If I were a player, I would fight if I disagreed about calls about my own shots (fully knowing they won't change the call but hey it's the principle :lol:), and I would never give my opponent a point.

Action Jackson
03-16-2007, 05:18 PM
Ha! Thanks. That is funny.

I had a Spanish speaking friend watching it with me, he wanted them to have a fight on the court. I said Coria should stick to tennis, he aint beating Horna in a fistfght.


As we can see from Hawk-eye, many of the player's are WRONG when they are calling the lines.

So if a player gives a point to his opponent when he thinks that the ball may have been in when it was called out, he may be wrong about what he saw.

Yes, Hawkeye is perfect, but it wouldn't surprise me that you would hook your opponent.

NicoFan
03-16-2007, 05:37 PM
An amendment to my post:

If I were playing clay, I would look at a mark for my opponent. Most of the guys do that for each other...but if there is a disagreement from what I saw and the call, it still would be up to the umpire to come down and check the mark. His/her word would go at that point.

Obviously if it were clearly out or in, they would catch it at that point, and no need to give a point.

On hardcourts though, a player shouldn't be expected to call lines. That's the linespersons, the chair umpires, and Hawk-eyes domain.

jazar
03-16-2007, 05:43 PM
its taking sportmanship just that little bit too far. its probably cos they know they gonna get shit loads of money win or lose

Balerion
03-16-2007, 05:45 PM
its taking sportmanship just that little bit too far. its probably cos they know they gonna get shit loads of money win or lose

I don't think players should feel obligated to give points away if there is an egregious mistake by the linesman/umpire. However, if they choose to do so I believe that that choice is above reproach. It's not "taking sportsmanship too far", it's just plain old sportsmanship.

jazar
03-16-2007, 05:48 PM
I don't think players should feel obligated to give points away if there is an egregious mistake by the linesman/umpire. However, if they choose to do so I believe that that choice is above reproach. It's not "taking sportsmanship too far", it's just plain old sportsmanship.

giving points away ain't really a winning attitude

Alx
03-16-2007, 05:50 PM
On hardcourts though, a player shouldn't be expected to call lines. That's the linespersons, the chair umpires, and Hawk-eyes domain.
and then the players should not complain when a call is against them...

Balerion
03-16-2007, 05:53 PM
giving points away ain't really a winning attitude

You don't really understand sportsmanship, do you?


It's about winning within the parameters of the game, fairly. In any case, I strongly disagree with the idea that overturning an incorrect decision is a losing attitude.

The Pro
03-16-2007, 05:54 PM
Yeah you're all being a bit mercenary.

I for one would not be able to handle it if I won a match, especially an important one, based on a judging error. It's not really winning, is it? And if I got lots of money, and my opponent did not, that would make it worse.

Standards, people. Standards.

NicoFan
03-16-2007, 05:56 PM
and then the players should not complain when a call is against them...

:wavey: Alx...

Oh, I would still complain if a call went against me... :lol:

Watching the guys arguing is always amusing...especially when you know the call will never be overturned. :lol:

jazar
03-16-2007, 05:56 PM
You don't really understand sportsmanship, do you?


It's about winning within the parameters of the game, fairly. In any case, I strongly disagree with the idea that overturning an incorrect decision is a losing attitude.

sportsmen and women should be single minded in acheiving their goal, which is winning

Alx
03-16-2007, 05:57 PM
Yeah you're all being a bit mercenary.

I for one would not be able to handle it if I won a match, especially an important one, based on a judging error. It's not really winning, is it? And if I got lots of money, and my opponent did not, that would make it worse.

Standards, people. Standards.
:yeah:
if now being fairplay is having a losing attitude :rolleyes:

Alx
03-16-2007, 06:03 PM
:wavey: Alx...

Oh, I would still complain if a call went against me... :lol:

Watching the guys arguing is always amusing...especially when you know the call will never be overturned. :lol:
I agree with you arguing is amusing but I respect a lot the players who give points to their opponents.
It's some sport, it's not the war.
The linespersons and the chair umpires are not never-failing. They can make errors. If you argue when a call is against you then you have to give back the point when the error are in your favor imo

The Pro
03-16-2007, 06:03 PM
sportsmen and women should be single minded in acheiving their goal, which is winning

So you don't get furious when you see foreign players throwing themselves all over the place on the football pitch. Diving left, right, centre?

Well, it's possible that you think 'fair enough', but I think any sport is less when people don't adhere to standards. Sure it depends on the sport, and I won't deny the highlight of the world cup was Zidane going ape on that Italian guy, but I think tennis is one.

Balerion
03-16-2007, 06:03 PM
sportsmen and women should be single minded in acheiving their goal, which is winning

Winning is the primary goal, certainly. I completely understand why players take what they can get with bad calls. The inherent competition and financial structure is a huge incentive to do so. Interesting that you used the word "sportsmen" and not "players" though. All I'm saying is that players who are true sportsmen and live up to a code of sportsmanship do not deserve any scorn or derision - they deserve admiration for living up to the ideals of sport.

jazar
03-16-2007, 06:07 PM
So you don't get furious when you see foreign players throwing themselves all over the place on the football pitch. Diving left, right, centre?

Well, it's possible that you think 'fair enough', but I think any sport is less when people don't adhere to standards. Sure it depends on the sport, and I won't deny the highlight of the world cup was Zidane going ape on that Italian guy, but I think tennis is one.

when i see football players diving i dont get pissed off cos its now a part of the game and all the players are trying to do is make sure their team wins

Winning is the primary goal, certainly. I completely understand why players take what they can get with bad calls. The inherent competition and financial structure is a huge incentive to do so. Interesting that you used the word "sportsmen" and not "players" though. All I'm saying is that players who are true sportsmen and live up to a code of sportsmanship do not deserve any scorn or derision - they deserve admiration for living up to the ideals of sport.

juniors in tennis academies in britain nowadays are taught to cheat. coaches tell them to shield the ball from their opponents view so they can call a good ball out.

a quote from the times newspaper, i cant remember it word for word and i cant be bothered to look it up, but it is true:

there is no coach in the world that wouldnt advocate their players cheating

Balerion
03-16-2007, 06:10 PM
So you don't get furious when you see foreign players throwing themselves all over the place on the football pitch. Diving left, right, centre?

Well, it's possible that you think 'fair enough', but I think any sport is less when people don't adhere to standards. Sure it depends on the sport, and I won't deny the highlight of the world cup was Zidane going ape on that Italian guy, but I think tennis is one.

Zidane wasn't really cheating, he simply acted like a thug. It was dirty but not sly.

http://www.jatzek-tiriac.de/images/rivaldo.jpg

This is probably one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen in any sport. And all Rivaldo got was a measly fine.



Of course, I'm not equating anything like this with not giving your opponent a point. However, the larger point is that fair play = good and lack of sportsmanship = bad. Every argument to the contrary is simply rationalizing an undesirable trait.

Alx
03-16-2007, 06:12 PM
juniors in tennis academies in britain nowadays are taught to cheat. coaches tell them to shield the ball from their opponents view so they can call a good ball out.

a quote from the times newspaper, i cant remember it word for word and i cant be bothered to look it up, but it is true:

there is no coach in the world that wouldnt advocate their players cheating
I've always thought that the british were not fairplay now I've got the proof...

RickDaStick
03-16-2007, 06:14 PM
I see we got some supporters of the " if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying" way.

jazar
03-16-2007, 06:15 PM
I've always thought that the british were not fairplay now I've got the proof...

you wouldnt believe half of the cheating that goes on. but its a part of almost every sport these days

NicoFan
03-16-2007, 06:16 PM
I'm not advocating cheating...that's wrong.

But I stick with my argument - players shouldn't have to make call for their opponents. It's asking too much. It's not about sportsmanship - it's just not their job.

Players are wrong many times - as we see in Hawk-eye, and for those who have a problem with Hawk-eye, you see it on clay too where the player makes a chair umpire come down and the player is proved wrong.

Loremaster
03-16-2007, 06:17 PM
In my opinion sportsmanship is something tennis should keep and reward but on the other hand what tennis lacks is rivalry when same players really don't like each other and there is a lot of bad blood between them there none such opponents in between Top players everybody seems to like everybody, even Andy-Ivan changed into friendly or neutral it what makes it uninteresting I love for example to watch Sullivan - Hendry in snooker it can see that they are close to hate each other but on still have tons of respect toward the other , or Connors-McEnroe , Sampras-Agassi (when they were young they hated each other )
If rafa starts to trash talk Roger and vice versa it would make their ,matches even more interesting

I had high expectations to Murray - Roddick but they seem to play nice now - BORING

Alx
03-16-2007, 06:17 PM
you wouldnt believe half of the cheating that goes on. but its a part of almost every sport these days
unfortunately...

RickDaStick
03-16-2007, 06:19 PM
In my opinion sportsmanship is something tennis should keep and reward but on the other hand what tennis lacks is rivalry when same players really don't like each other and there is a lot of bad blood between them there none such opponents in between Top players everybody seems to like everybody, even Andy-Ivan changed into friendly or neutral it what makes it uninteresting I love for example to watch Sullivan - Hendry in snooker it can see that they are close to hate each other but on still have tons of respect toward the other , or Connors-McEnroe , Sampras-Agassi (when they were young they hated each other )
If rafa starts to trash talk Roger and vice versa it would make their ,matches even more interesting

I had high expectations to Murray - Roddick but they seem to play nice now - BORING

No offense to Rafa but he has to learn the english language 1st. Did you see him trying to say something to Berdych in Madrid? It wasnt a pretty sight and Rafa just gave up because he couldnt pronounce anything. Poor guy :)

Alx
03-16-2007, 06:20 PM
I'm not advocating cheating...that's wrong.

But I stick with my argument - players shouldn't have to make call for their opponents. It's asking too much. It's not about sportsmanship - it's just not their job.

Players are wrong many times - as we see in Hawk-eye, and for those who have a problem with Hawk-eye, you see it on clay too where the player makes a chair umpire come down and the player is proved wrong.
I think when a player gives a point to his opponent, he's sure at 200% that the ball was good.

Richard_from_Cal
03-16-2007, 06:20 PM
You couldn't turn this into a poll, at this late date, could you IvanLjubicic?

Balerion
03-16-2007, 06:22 PM
when i see football players diving i dont get pissed off cos its now a part of the game and all the players are trying to do is make sure their team wins

It makes me sad to hear that you've completely sold out on fairplay principles in the name of convenience. Diving is part of the game right now, simply because it happens so much; that doesn't mean that it should be part of the game or accepted. If you rationalize and accept cheating, it brings you down to that level.

juniors in tennis academies in britain nowadays are taught to cheat. coaches tell them to shield the ball from their opponents view so they can call a good ball out.

a quote from the times newspaper, i cant remember it word for word and i cant be bothered to look it up, but it is true:

there is no coach in the world that wouldnt advocate their players cheating

Really? I can think of a number of coaches I've had in a variety of sports that would have immediately benched me for the rest of the game if I had done anything as unsportsmanlike as intentionally lie about line calls or dive in football.

And if that's true about the junior academies, that seems pretty pointless. No wonder why Great Britain is having problems developing talent (Murray aside, the cupboard is pretty bare unless you want to bank on the Lesser Murray's doubles specialist potential).....all these juniors should be learning how to win justly and honestly - those bush-league tactics won't work when there are linemen.

Mechlan
03-16-2007, 06:22 PM
It's a game. Winning isn't everything, especially when you have to resort to underhanded tactics like stealing points from your opponent. I mean, winning by deliberately swindling your opponent is plain cheating. As far as players giving each other points, it's nice but not necessary. Good to see that some guys have a sense of fair play, even if it means a lack of drama on the court. There are plenty of assholes in life, I'm sure tennis will have its fair share in a few years once more. For right now, I'll applaud the good sportsmanship the sport does have. I can only imagine what would happen to this place if a player like Connors ever came around again.

RickDaStick
03-16-2007, 06:22 PM
You couldn't turn this into a poll, at this late date, could you IvanLjubicic?

I dont think so. Perhaps someone can start a simple poll asking this question. I would be interested to see the results.

jazar
03-16-2007, 06:27 PM
It makes me sad to hear that you've completely sold out on fairplay principles in the name of convenience. Diving is part of the game right now, simply because it happens so much; that doesn't mean that it should be part of the game or accepted. If you rationalize and accept cheating, it brings you down to that level.



Really? I can think of a number of coaches I've had in a variety of sports that would have immediately benched me for the rest of the game if I had done anything as unsportsmanlike as intentionally lie about line calls or dive in football.

And if that's true about the junior academies, that seems pretty pointless. No wonder why Great Britain is having problems developing talent (Murray aside, the cupboard is pretty bare unless you want to bank on the Lesser Murray's doubles specialist potential).....all these juniors should be learning how to win justly and honestly - those bush-league tactics won't work when there are linemen.

i dont advocate diving, but if my team wins cos one of the players dives to win a penalty, which then gets scored and gives my team the win, i'm not going to care. the same thing could happen to my team the next game. i see diving as part of the evolution of football and if it gets eradicated, some new form of cheating will emerge.

face it, almost whatever sport you do, you are going to be screwed out of a point, a goal, a win, whatever, at least some time.

as for the academies teaching cheating that is why juniors can win county tournaments and get blown away playing national and international tournaments where there are line judges and umpires. particularly at the lower levels this hinders the development of honest players. but the drive to succeed, will, in most cases, override the morals of sportsmanship

uglyamerican
03-16-2007, 06:31 PM
i dont advocate diving, but if my team wins cos one of the players dives to win a penalty, which then gets scored and gives my team the win, i'm not going to care. the same thing could happen to my team the next game. i see diving as part of the evolution of football and if it gets eradicated, some new form of cheating will emerge.

face it, almost whatever sport you do, you are going to be screwed out of a point, a goal, a win, whatever, at least some time.


I disagree. A bad call in favor of my team makes the win less sweet.

jazar
03-16-2007, 06:33 PM
I disagree. A bad call in favor of my team makes the win less sweet.

a win is a win. and if you can live with it fine, if not then dont bother, cos cheating, whether you like it or not, goes hand in hand with competition

sondraj06
03-16-2007, 06:35 PM
Well in basket ball and in football( americano style) it is really irritating how obvious the refs cheat for a specific team. People don't really mind it, it will happen. It just if you are going to give calls to one team you have to do it for both. That's my take on it, if you cheat for him, you need to do it for me to. That's what burns people up

Balerion
03-16-2007, 06:36 PM
I disagree. A bad call in favor of my team makes the win less sweet.

I'd agree with that too.


Also, from a purely practical non-ethical standpoint, it's nice to be able to have completely 100% ability to taunt the fans of your opponent...if you win based on an illegitimate or controversial call, you lost that ability. ;)


a win is a win. and if you can live with it fine, if not then dont bother, cos cheating, whether you like it or not, goes hand in hand with competition

Quite honestly, the only reason it goes hand in hand with competition is because too many people accept it as such.

That being said, I don't think we disagree all that much. We mainly differ on the worth of our response and reaction to cheating, rather than the whether diving is a good or bad thing.

uglyamerican
03-16-2007, 06:36 PM
a win is a win. and if you can live with it fine, if not then dont bother, cos cheating, whether you like it or not, goes hand in hand with competition

don't bother what?

I'm sure the players have this attitude, which is fine. Also, the bigger the stage the more inclined I'd be (as a fan) to take a win anyway it comes.

jazar
03-16-2007, 06:37 PM
don't bother what?

I'm sure the players have this attitude, which is fine. Also, the bigger the stage the more inclined I'd be (as a fan) to take a win anyway it comes.

i was saying if you cant handle that there are going to be people cheating then dont bother playing with them

Renaud
03-16-2007, 06:38 PM
One of the most famous point given were by Wilander during RG 82 in semi final against Clerc.
That was on the first match point.

Jim Courier
03-16-2007, 06:39 PM
What about giving the point on match point? On championship point? I think it was Wilander who did it in a RG final, can't remember the year though.
Many of the top players seem to never give a point, i can't remember Federer (not sure about Nadal) doing so. Federer has a great sight, sometimes he gives that sly look that shows he knows the call was wrong.
Can't really blame them though, some matches have turned around after a given point.

Also slightly off-topic but when is the last time Norm Christ (sp?) overruled a call? It seems all he does is calling the score.

Balerion
03-16-2007, 06:41 PM
Well in basket ball and in football( americano style) it is really irritating how obvious the refs cheat for a specific team. People don't really mind it, it will happen. It just if you are going to give calls to one team you have to do it for both. That's my take on it, if you cheat for him, you need to do it for me to. That's what burns people up

Do you have any examples? I don't think it's widely acknowledged that refs in the US are partial in basketball or American football, unless you happen to be an extremely partisan fan of a hard-luck team.

It is, however, a fairly legitimate complaint in the NBA that star players get free passes on certain things. Michael Jordan was notorious for getting away with traveling calls simply because he was Michael Jordan.

But anyway, these points are all ancillary because the discussion is about players making calls, not neutral entities like referees, linesmen, or umpires.

Loremaster
03-16-2007, 06:42 PM
Roddick also gave point on MP to Verdasco in Rome and in the end he lost he lost he match

jazar
03-16-2007, 06:45 PM
Roddick also gave point on MP to Verdasco in Rome and in the end he lost he lost he match

i hope he learnt his lesson from that

Black Adam
03-16-2007, 06:50 PM
So you don't get furious when you see foreign players throwing themselves all over the place on the football pitch. Diving left, right, centre?

Well, it's possible that you think 'fair enough', but I think any sport is less when people don't adhere to standards. Sure it depends on the sport, and I won't deny the highlight of the world cup was Zidane going ape on that Italian guy, but I think tennis is one.
So if it's a home boy diving there is no problem at all hein?:rolleyes:

Deathless Mortal
03-16-2007, 06:53 PM
Zidane wasn't really cheating, he simply acted like a thug. It was dirty but not sly.

http://www.jatzek-tiriac.de/images/rivaldo.jpg

This is probably one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen in any sport. And all Rivaldo got was a measly fine.



Of course, I'm not equating anything like this with not giving your opponent a point. However, the larger point is that fair play = good and lack of sportsmanship = bad. Every argument to the contrary is simply rationalizing an undesirable trait.


I remember this. He was one of my favourite football players till then. Really stupid act, Turkish player got a red card because of that i think. Shame on Rivaldo.

Loremaster
03-16-2007, 06:53 PM
i hope he learnt his lesson from that

I think he did it :)
but he didn't look devasted in the end

Balerion
03-16-2007, 06:53 PM
i hope he learnt his lesson from that

Cynic!

I didn't think it was anything extraordinary," Roddick said. "The umpire would have done the same thing if he came down and looked. I just saved him the trip. He's working hard up there.

Maybe another player wouldn't have done like Andy," Verdasco said. "I know I would have done the same thing if I were in his place.

When he hit it, and before I looked, I thought it was out. Then I got there, and it wasn't the case," Roddick said. "On a hard court, I wouldn't have given him the point, because I thought it missed.

See, it's not so bad; he was a good sportsman and it didn't cost him. Apparently there was clearly a mark on the clay indicating that the ball was in. Secondly, Roddick said that he wouldn't have given the point to Verdasco unless he was 100% sure it was in, which he was.

lorenz
03-16-2007, 07:22 PM
Horna says "I couldn't give you that it was too far out and they kept mouthing and Lucho said "Just be quiet and play I am not Gaudio, I will actually hit you".


Oh, I wish have seem that.

Loremaster
03-16-2007, 07:54 PM
Cynic!







See, it's not so bad; he was a good sportsman and it didn't cost him. Apparently there was clearly a mark on the clay indicating that the ball was in. Secondly, Roddick said that he wouldn't have given the point to Verdasco unless he was 100% sure it was in, which he was.

you know the truth is that umpire wasn't going to check it , verdasco was going to the net to shake hand

Balerion
03-16-2007, 08:31 PM
you know the truth is that umpire wasn't going to check it , verdasco was going to the net to shake hand

If that's the truth than what Roddick did was even more impressive.

jazar
03-16-2007, 08:35 PM
If that's the truth than what Roddick did was even more impressive.

or stupid

cobalt60
03-16-2007, 09:06 PM
I like the honesty and sense of fairplay of that player. I would assume though that it doesn't happen all that much. Any guesses as to what % it would happen? Less than 5%?

Balerion
03-16-2007, 09:07 PM
or stupid

What it comes down to is a fundamental difference in how we value honesty and integrity. Obviously I'm not going to be able to talk anyone down from their position, so I'll bow out of this debate.

cobalt60
03-16-2007, 09:07 PM
If that's the truth than what Roddick did was even more impressive.

exactly :yeah:

Burrow
03-16-2007, 09:22 PM
Alot of the time the umpire or lines judges are wrong, and the players have a better view, so why not.

bluefork
03-16-2007, 09:25 PM
you know the truth is that umpire wasn't going to check it , verdasco was going to the net to shake hand

That's not what Roddick said after the match. He said that he gave up the point himself because it was just going to the save the umpire a trip down from his chair.

jazar
03-16-2007, 09:31 PM
That's not what Roddick said after the match. He said that he gave up the point himself because it was just going to the save the umpire a trip down from his chair.

yep thats right, so its not really as charitable as it has been made out to be

NicoFan
03-16-2007, 09:37 PM
That's not what Roddick said after the match. He said that he gave up the point himself because it was just going to the save the umpire a trip down from his chair.

I like Andy, but if he didn't do it, the chair would have done it for him. It certainly wasn't a charitable act on his part.

I'll say it again: it isn't up to the player's to call their opponents shots. That's the job of the linespeople, the chair, and a technology system if available.

They don't need the added pressure.

Yes on clay, it's done more but that's for the same reason on why Andy "gave" the point to Fer....the chair would have called it anyway.

Tennis is such a wonderful sport - you all should try watching it sometime instead of worrying so much about how the player's behave.

:lol:

The Pro
03-16-2007, 11:35 PM
So if it's a home boy diving there is no problem at all hein?:rolleyes:

No it's not, that sucks too. I'm alwas unimpressed by cheating. I was speaking from the perspective of one brit to another, trying to set up a hypothetical as a way of getting my point across.

Hein?:D

shotgun
03-17-2007, 02:48 PM
I remember the Nadal-Calleri match in Costa do Sauipe 2005, it was already late, then there was a bad call at match point and it would be GSM Nadal, but he gave the point to Calleri. Calleri saved the MP, won the second set and the match only finished at around 2 AM local time, with Nadal winning. :lol:

The thing in the Nalbandian-Henman match in Madrid last year was hilarious too.

shotgun
03-17-2007, 02:51 PM
I remember this. He was one of my favourite football players till then. Really stupid act, Turkish player got a red card because of that i think. Shame on Rivaldo.

I agree it was an embarassing dive, then again kicking a ball to hit your opponent (regardless of which part of the body it hits) when play has stopped doesn't really qualify as good sportsmanship, does it? ;)