Federer/Allegro def Davydenko/Youzhny 6-7,6-4.10-5 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Federer/Allegro def Davydenko/Youzhny 6-7,6-4.10-5

Greenday
02-27-2007, 04:32 PM
Enjoyed watching Fed playing in Doubles..!!:)

Xristos
02-27-2007, 04:33 PM
Wow! Didnt expect this!

Fed still unbeaten this year!

Yappa
02-27-2007, 04:37 PM
Enjoyed watching Fed playing in Doubles..!!:)

Where?
Unless you mean that you were there sitting with your notebook.

jazar
02-27-2007, 04:45 PM
whats more suprising is that davydenko played doubles. that guy has a phobia of the net. in singles the only time he is there is to shake your hand.

anyway, fed is on his way to the double

Sunset of Age
02-27-2007, 04:48 PM
How nice indeed. Would love to be able to see his doubles matches.
Unfortunately... nada de broadcasting, eh?

RogiFan88
02-27-2007, 04:48 PM
...the double what??

Corey Feldman
02-27-2007, 05:18 PM
well that sounded like the match of the day in Dubai, by far!!


...the double what??singles & doubles title :)

Fedex
02-27-2007, 07:00 PM
I didn't expect Roger to play doubles, mainly due to the fact that he's played in about one event the past two years, but I doubt he will win this event at both singles and doubles. Roger better be careful not to wear himself out, given all the tennis he has played the past month. ;)

Or Levy
02-27-2007, 07:08 PM
Explain this to me, and I hope the question isn't completely idiotic as I'm a new fan to Tennis. How could he not win doubles more? Is it that Allegro isn't a great player? How can such a superb single player just do 'okay' in the doubles? Especially since Fed can S&V so well.

I mean, if we paired... lets say - Rafa and Roger together, or Andy and Roger - vs the Brian bros. Wouldn't Rog and Rafa be the overwhelming favorites?

Rosa Luxembourg
02-27-2007, 07:13 PM
whats more suprising is that davydenko played doubles. that guy has a phobia of the net. in singles the only time he is there is to shake your hand.

anyway, fed is on his way to the double


Not true. He used to play doubles very often and, in fact, his partner was Andreev.

kobulingam
02-27-2007, 07:17 PM
Explain this to me, and I hope the question isn't completely idiotic as I'm a new fan to Tennis. How could he not win doubles more? Is it that Allegro isn't a great player? How can such a superb single player just do 'okay' in the doubles? Especially since Fed can S&V so well.

I mean, if we paired... lets say - Rafa and Roger together, or Andy and Roger - vs the Brian bros. Wouldn't Rog and Rafa be the overwhelming favorites?

Bryan Brothers would destroy any of those pairings.

Eden
02-27-2007, 07:23 PM
Explain this to me, and I hope the question isn't completely idiotic as I'm a new fan to Tennis. How could he not win doubles more? Is it that Allegro isn't a great player? How can such a superb single player just do 'okay' in the doubles? Especially since Fed can S&V so well.

I mean, if we paired... lets say - Rafa and Roger together, or Andy and Roger - vs the Brian bros. Wouldn't Rog and Rafa be the overwhelming favorites?

Roger is concentrating mainly on his singles performances and uses doubles mostly as practice sessions. He has won 7 titles in doubles in his career.

You don't get a great doubles team just when you pair the two worlds bests singles players. Look at the doubles teams who are successful - they play mostly together for a long time and have lots of experiences.

GlennMirnyi
02-27-2007, 07:26 PM
whats more suprising is that davydenko played doubles. that guy has a phobia of the net. in singles the only time he is there is to shake your hand.

anyway, fed is on his way to the double

The double handed volley... :lol:

Explain this to me, and I hope the question isn't completely idiotic as I'm a new fan to Tennis. How could he not win doubles more? Is it that Allegro isn't a great player? How can such a superb single player just do 'okay' in the doubles? Especially since Fed can S&V so well.

I mean, if we paired... lets say - Rafa and Roger together, or Andy and Roger - vs the Brian bros. Wouldn't Rog and Rafa be the overwhelming favorites?

:haha:

Have you ever played, no, watched a doubles match? It's very different. Anyway, Nadal can't volley, so... no doubles for him.

jazar
02-27-2007, 07:29 PM
Not true. He used to play doubles very often and, in fact, his partner was Andreev.

thats suprising given:

The double handed volley... :lol:

Or Levy
02-27-2007, 07:36 PM
The double handed volley... :lol:



:haha:

Have you ever played, no, watched a doubles match? It's very different. Anyway, Nadal can't volley, so... no doubles for him.

I actually never played a tennis match, period. As I said above (and kinda hope it would spare me the ridicule, actually), I'm a new fan of the sport, just started following for a year+ or so, and by being a fan I mean WATCHING the sport, not playing it. I'd seriously suck.

I did watch several double matches, though I admit not many, because they don't usually air them here, and I understand it's different, that's why I *asked*. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

tcorinna
02-27-2007, 07:42 PM
Fede and Yves won ... sha la la la ... :rocker2:

Congrats :) :bigclap: :clap2:

Or Levy
02-27-2007, 07:43 PM
Roger is concentrating mainly on his singles performances and uses doubles mostly as practice sessions. He has won 7 titles in doubles in his career.

You don't get a great doubles team just when you pair the two worlds bests singles players. Look at the doubles teams who are successful - they play mostly together for a long time and have lots of experiences.

Yes, but I wasn't sure if it's because the great single players just choose not to play doubles because of time/injury/problems of getting to the latter stages in both doubles AND singles and having one getting in the way of the other, rather than not being able to play doubles as well.

GlennMirnyi
02-27-2007, 07:44 PM
I actually never played a tennis match, period. As I said above (and kinda hope it would spare me the ridicule, actually), I'm a new fan of the sport, just started following for a year+ or so, and by being a fan I mean WATCHING the sport, not playing it. I'd seriously suck.

I did watch several double matches, though I admit not many, because they don't usually air them here, and I understand it's different, that's why I *asked*. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So. Doubles matches have a different mechanic of play. The returns must be better, you need good net reflexes, a good idea of how to move forward...

scoobs
02-27-2007, 07:47 PM
Doubles is about being good players, yes, but the best doubles teams tend to be well-established teams that play well together a lot. The reason for this is a lot of doubles is about communication between team-mates. Whether it's one player calling to the other that they'll take the overhead on the court, to discussing tactics and strategies before the match that they will try to employ together as a team...communication is vital.

Strategy is another important aspect of doubles that comes with playing it regularly with a regular partner - protecting your weaknesses and your partner's weaknesses. Good doubles combos often have a player who, say, is weaker on the backhand - if he's on the right court, then it can to an extent be protected by his partner's forehand standing in the left court - he can take stuff that goes up the middle. The other aspect of strategy is movement - if your partner moves to a certain place to take a ball, it's about understanding where YOU need to move to in order to not leave wide open gaps on the court for your opponents to hit into. So you might both move back together, or move forward together, or one stays forward if the other retreats, or you might move to the centre if your partner is dragged wide. There's a lot of need to understand these things. You need quick reflexes and good conventional volleying skills, which some top players on the men's side these days lack.

The thing with a lot of good singles players who play occasional doubles with sometimes random partners, is that both players essentially go out and play a singles match on a court with 2 extra people out there. This might actually get them through against some teams if they are good enough singles players but a strong doubles team will always find ways to take that apart. In Dubai there's a couple of strong long-standing doubles players like Knowles/Nestor and Damm/Paes. I think Federer and Allegro would do extremely well to beat either of these pairs if it came to that.

GlennMirnyi
02-27-2007, 07:50 PM
If you pay attention to established doubles teams, they have players designed to do something. With Max and Jonas, if there's a possibility, Max is always the one doing the overheads.

Eden
02-27-2007, 08:05 PM
Yes, but I wasn't sure if it's because the great single players just choose not to play doubles because of time/injury/problems of getting to the latter stages in both doubles AND singles and having one getting in the way of the other, rather than not being able to play doubles as well.

Well, when you ask yourself if Roger should play more doubles you can check this thread http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=90680&highlight=doubles where it is discussed whether he should compete more in doubles.

In this thread http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=78789&highlight=doubles someone asked if any player has ever won a slam in singles and doubles.

Maybe it is interesting for you to read these two threads :)

vamosnadal
02-27-2007, 08:35 PM
Anyway, Nadal can't volley, so... no doubles for him.

That's not true. He doesn't use it often, but he's got quite a good volley and wins a high percentage of his points at the net. His overhead is poor, but his volley is not. He's done quite well at doubles with 3 titles, other finals and a ranking of 26th at its highest.

Jimnik
02-27-2007, 08:56 PM
It's hard to imagine Davydenko being much of a doubles player. I don't think he has any strengths for doubles.

vamosnadal
02-27-2007, 09:04 PM
It's hard to imagine Davydenko being much of a doubles player. I don't think he has any strengths for doubles.

I agree. I think his strengths in singles would be neutralised in doubles and as others have said, he's not the strongest at the net.

Komodo
02-27-2007, 09:15 PM
Bryan Brothers would destroy any of those pairings.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wroooooong. :)

Of course, doubles specialists know the game better, know what to do on the doubles court, have a lot more set plays and tactics to fall back on regarding doubles.
But in the end, they are playing tennis, just like in singles, and the difference in talent does not disappear. The best singles players mostly have much better stamina, much better hands, much better court vision etc. There's a reason the doubles guys play something nobody really cares a lot about, often in front of no spectators. It's not like they don't wan't to be good in singles, they just aren't good enough at playing tennis.

If you want to look at strength between the good singles players and doubles specialists, you have to look for a tournament where the doubles event isn't a total sidekick that non doubles players don't really care about.
There is only one such tournament: The olympics. That's a huge event, and a medal is a medal regardless of if it's singles or doubles you get it in.
So let's check out the results of the latest Olympic Games in Athens 2004:

The quarter finals ended up looking like this:
Menís Doubles - quarterfinals
Fernando Gonzalez/Nicolas Massu (CHI) d. (1) Bob Bryan/Mike Bryan (USA) 75 64
(WC) Mario Ancic/Ivan Ljubicic (CRO) d. (3) Michael Llodra/Fabrice Santoro (FRA) 46 63 97
(5) Mahesh Bhupathi/Leander Paes (IND) d. (4) Wayne Black/Kevin Ullyett (ZIM) 64 64
Nicolas Kiefer/Rainer Schuettler (GER) d. (8) Jonathan Erlich/Andy Ram (ISR) 26 62 62

Menís Doubles - Semifinals
Fernando Gonzalez/Nicolas Massu (CHI) d. Mario Ancic/Ivan Ljubicic (CRO) 75 46 64
Nicolas Kiefer/Rainer Schuettler (GER) d. (5) Mahesh Bhupathi/Leander Paes (IND) 62 63

Bronze medal match (WC) Mario Ancic/Ivan Ljubicic (CRO) d. (5) Mahesh Bhupathi/Leander Paes (IND) 76(5) 46 1614


Ok, in this event the regular pairings of different nationality (Bjorkman/Mirnyi) couldn't team up. Still, you had absolute top teams like Bryan/Bryan, Black/Ulyett, Ehrlich/Ram that got their asses kicked by singles players who weren't even in the top 10 at the time.



If you pair Federer with any top 40 singles player with a good serve and decent volley, and they are really into it, they will beat the doubles specialists.

[/QUOTE] Anyway, Nadal can't volley, so... no doubles for him. [/QUOTE]

Put Nadal and Federer together in a scenario where winning really counts, and they will wipe Bjorkman & Mirnyi off the court faster than you can type "I'm a Max Mirnyi fanboy" 100 times.

komodo

dorkino
02-27-2007, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Orlevy
I actually never played a tennis match, period. As I said above (and kinda hope it would spare me the ridicule, actually), I'm a new fan of the sport, just started following for a year+ or so, and by being a fan I mean WATCHING the sport, not playing it. I'd seriously suck.

I did watch several double matches, though I admit not many, because they don't usually air them here, and I understand it's different, that's why I *asked*. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Doubles depend on good communication between partners of the same team. They need to understand eachother easily and get well known with the advantages and defects of each one of them as a good start. But most of all doubles depend on a very rapid reflex especially when it comes to the net.
So with (some exceptions) ,u'll just notice that not every successful player in singles would necessarily make the same success in doubles even if he joined another singles good player. The contrary is true for Double players playing singles.

In fact i remember lots of singles players (men and women ) used to play doubles to improve their net approaches and volleys.

dorkino
02-27-2007, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Komodo
Put Nadal and Federer together in a scenario where winning really counts, and they will wipe Bjorkman & Mirnyi off the court faster than you can type "I'm a Max Mirnyi fanboy" 100 times.

:hearts: That woud be a doubles dream team for me. I doubt it'll happen though. Don't know if it's my imagination ,but i remember something like Nadal mentioned that once saying he'd hope to play doubles with Fed one day. Does any one remember something like it?

scoobs
02-27-2007, 09:29 PM
:hearts: That woud be a doubles dream team for me. I doubt it'll happen though. Don't know if it's my imagination ,but i remember something like Nadal mentioned that once saying he'd hope to play doubles with Fed one day. Does any one remember something like it?
Yeah Nadal asked Federer to play doubles with him in Madrid last year. Federer politely declined.

Komodo
02-27-2007, 09:33 PM
I wanted to add to my post above, that, like Dorkino writes, you need a bit of a diiferent skill set in doubles. You HAVE to be at least adequate at the net, because you HAVE to play at the net.

The thing is that the good singles players have so many other things they are superior at to fall back on if their volleying isn't as good as a doubles specialists', that they still have a very good shot at winning.

As an example I'd like to mention Gonzalez/Massu when they won the Olympic gold medal and both of them often with great success stayed at the baseline on the opponents serve to smack forehands at the poor guys waiting at the net.

Somebody wrote that Davydenko would have no strengths in doubles. He will, at least, definitely be better at getting to volleys and hitting passing shots than any doubles specialist out there. He may be a bad doubles player though as he doesn't volley; he always hits drive volleys when playing singles.

dorkino
02-27-2007, 09:40 PM
Scoobs , thanks for the refreshment. I am getting old.:o

Fed. seems to be enjoying it the doubles. Having some competition in score after all :lol:

Komodo
02-27-2007, 09:43 PM
Yeah Nadal asked Federer to play doubles with him in Madrid last year. Federer politely declined.

He said that he doesn't really want to play a lot of doubles, and whenever he does it will be with his old friend Allegro.

There honestly isn't one good reason to play doubles with your 20 year old, up-coming rival. Yeah, i know, gang, Nadal isn't a rival. ;)

scoobs
02-27-2007, 09:48 PM
He said that he doesn't really want to play a lot of doubles, and whenever he does it will be with his old friend Allegro.

There honestly isn't one good reason to play doubles with your 20 year old, up-coming rival. Yeah, i know, gang, Nadal isn't a rival. ;)
Yeah, as friendly as Federer and Nadal are with each other, I think Federer is comfortably keeping Rafa more at arms length while they are such rivals.

dorkino
02-27-2007, 09:51 PM
originally posted by Komodo
He said that he doesn't really want to play a lot of doubles, and whenever he does it will be with his old friend Allegro.

There honestly isn't one good reason to play doubles with your 20 year old, up-coming rival. Yeah, i know, gang, Nadal isn't a rival. ;)

:lol: Yes. it's not that wise to let "others" know about ur tricks.
Wicked professionals :devil:

Federerhingis
02-27-2007, 09:58 PM
It's hard to imagine Davydenko being much of a doubles player. I don't think he has any strengths for doubles.


Well we can give him the return of serve at least, let's not be so underestimating. ;) :tape:

ChinoRios4Ever
02-27-2007, 10:01 PM
fed wins even in doubles :lol:

Kolya
02-27-2007, 10:10 PM
Nice to see 2 top 10 singles players playing doubles.

Did Kolya and Misha both played their singles and this doubles on the same day?