Boycott Dubai? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Boycott Dubai?

Veronique
02-23-2007, 05:29 PM
Keep your hatred and irrationality elsewhere? This is about tennis only and the Dubai tournament.

I just wanted to share with you the latest reply I got from Bud Collins.


Veronique -- i doubt that many players are aware of the ban. another arthur ashe? federer seems the closest thing -- but he says that dubai is one of his favorite places. anyway i plan to ask him about it.
cheers,
bud

amierin
02-23-2007, 05:36 PM
Why is there talk of a boycott?

nobama
02-23-2007, 05:39 PM
I thought they closed the Dubai thread. Why start another one?

Leo
02-23-2007, 05:41 PM
Why would they boycott?

Veronique
02-23-2007, 05:44 PM
I thought they closed the Dubai thread. Why start another one?

Read my post again:rolleyes:

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 05:45 PM
Why would they boycott?

Because they don't let Israelis in their country, but the atp promised that all players that want to play would be allowed. But some people feel that that is not good enough because, some players of Israeli decent would feel uncomfortable and pull out just because. and some players of Israeli decent would have to jump through too many hopes just to get denied anyway. And some people think that the atp should be an example, become political activist and boycott Dubai because of it's stance on Israeli. does that sum it up.

Veronique
02-23-2007, 05:45 PM
They can close it. I just wanted to share that tidbit from Bud Collins.

GlennMirnyi
02-23-2007, 05:47 PM
I don't think ATP, an organization about sports, should deal with politics.

scoobs
02-23-2007, 05:48 PM
I'm going to boycott "boycott Dubai" threads.

Starting now.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 05:49 PM
I don't think ATP, an organization about sports, should deal with politics.

And they shouldn't, but we've been through on this trip so many times already. Can everyone just disagree and stop posting about it.

nobama
02-23-2007, 05:50 PM
Read my post again:rolleyes:
You know it will end up going OT like most threads do.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 05:52 PM
I'm going to boycott "boycott Dubai" threads.

Starting now.


Can I join, do I have to carry a sign:ignore::boxing: whenever we see the boycott dubai sign we'll shoot them down :armed:

ezekiel
02-23-2007, 05:52 PM
I don't think ATP, an organization about sports, should deal with politics.

right , so they should make sure that players can play regardless of local politics

Snowwy
02-23-2007, 05:54 PM
Keep your hatred and irrationality elsewhere? This is about tennis only and the Dubai tournament.

I just wanted to share with you the latest reply I got from Bud Collins.


Veronique -- i doubt that many players are aware of the ban. another arthur ashe? federer seems the closest thing -- but he says that dubai is one of his favorite places. anyway i plan to ask him about it.
cheers,
bud

Wow, there hasnt been one of these in what, two days?!? :confused:

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 05:55 PM
Wow, there hasnt been one of these in what, two days?!? :confused:

No they just removed one, what this morning. :mad:

Yappa
02-23-2007, 05:55 PM
This Bud Collins?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Collins

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 05:56 PM
^ what does that have to do with anything

TenHound
02-23-2007, 06:08 PM
The only reason these bastards are holding these tournaments, I mean renting players for a week, is to get free publicity. The best way to deal w/them is to ignore it. Just do not discuss the tournament at all. No threads, nothing. If someone wants to be rented to go play in nowomansland, they fall into a black hole. End of Story.

If you're dumb enough to give them publicity, any mention should discuss what a corrupt hellhole they are. They hate women, jews, import slave labor from pakistan etc. that they can pay $.07/hr, often withholding wages for months on end altogether, to build palaces for those who've plundered the earth. And the very definition of corruption.

Israeli players are allowed in? Big damn deal. Must be scary for them. And what about Israelis who might want to watch? Hell, no, you dirty jews is their attitude.

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 06:11 PM
Keep your hatred and irrationality elsewhere

. .
The only reason these bastards are holding these tournaments, I mean renting players for a week, is to get free publicity. The best way to deal w/them is to ignore it. Just do not discuss the tournament at all. No threads, nothing. If someone wants to be rented to go play in nowomansland, they fall into a black hole. End of Story.

If you're dumb enough to give them publicity, any mention should discuss what a corrupt hellhole they are. They hate women, jews, import slave labor from pakistan etc. that they can pay $.07/hr, often withholding wages for months on end altogether, to build palaces for those who've plundered the earth. And the very definition of corruption.

Israeli players are allowed in? Big damn deal. Must be scary for them. And what about Israelis who might want to watch? Hell, no, you dirty jews is their attitude.

Loremaster
02-23-2007, 07:00 PM
They give too much cash to close it , but those tournaments in Dubai and Doha always have great players playing but there is almost 0 crowd there especially in Doha but it was easy to predict that this year in Doha wouldn't be much crowd noone wants to see Mr.Invisible

Veronique
02-23-2007, 07:43 PM
This Bud Collins?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Collins

Yup! He's the only one who promptly replied to my emails about this issue. I'll post everytime I hear from him.

Leo
02-23-2007, 07:52 PM
Because they don't let Israelis in their country, but the atp promised that all players that want to play would be allowed. But some people feel that that is not good enough because, some players of Israeli decent would feel uncomfortable and pull out just because. and some players of Israeli decent would have to jump through too many hopes just to get denied anyway. And some people think that the atp should be an example, become political activist and boycott Dubai because of it's stance on Israeli. does that sum it up.

Oh okay, I have heard this before. And I would be greatly impressed if the players did boycott. Unfortunately, most of the top players will think more of the incredibly high appearance fees they would recieve from the tournament for showing up, win or lose.

In fact, I wish someone in the Top 10 would boycott everything besides Grand Slams/ITF events because of the ATP being an ass. :devil:

kapranos
02-23-2007, 08:06 PM
The only reason these bastards are holding these tournaments, I mean renting players for a week, is to get free publicity. The best way to deal w/them is to ignore it. Just do not discuss the tournament at all. No threads, nothing. If someone wants to be rented to go play in nowomansland, they fall into a black hole. End of Story.

If you're dumb enough to give them publicity, any mention should discuss what a corrupt hellhole they are. They hate women, jews, import slave labor from pakistan etc. that they can pay $.07/hr, often withholding wages for months on end altogether, to build palaces for those who've plundered the earth. And the very definition of corruption.

Israeli players are allowed in? Big damn deal. Must be scary for them. And what about Israelis who might want to watch? Hell, no, you dirty jews is their attitude.

You forgot they hate gays too. I wish they would throw Mauresmo in jail a couple of days, then we would start getting some outrage.

Or Levy
02-23-2007, 08:20 PM
I'm curious to know what Federer think, I must admit.

RonE
02-23-2007, 08:26 PM
I'm curious to know what Federer think, I must admit.

I doubt he even realizes the issues discussed here and if he does he probably doesn't give a shit :shrug:

He is being paid big $$$ is treated like royalty there- everything is hunky dory.

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 08:32 PM
I'm curious to know what Federer think, I must admit.

He will have a canned diplomatic reply to a question like this.

If you are a nuclear scientist and attend a conference for all nuclear scientists in the US, where nuclear scientists from Libya, Iran, North Korea and Pakistan are banned from attending, would you also not attend? It does not necessarily make you selfish. You might feel bad about your scientist-colleagues, but you also realize that a big part of why you do your job is regardless of them.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 08:59 PM
You forgot they hate gays too. I wish they would throw Mauresmo in jail a couple of days, then we would start getting some outrage.


well when they start too ban gays then I'm sure we'll have many more ban Dubai threads started in honor of gays. This is just like that movie minority report. So the police knew that he was going to commit the murder before he commited the murder so they tried to arrest him...funny I didn't know we had that technology already.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 09:02 PM
The only reason these bastards are holding these tournaments, I mean renting players for a week, is to get free publicity. The best way to deal w/them is to ignore it. Just do not discuss the tournament at all. No threads, nothing. If someone wants to be rented to go play in nowomansland, they fall into a black hole. End of Story.

If you're dumb enough to give them publicity, any mention should discuss what a corrupt hellhole they are. They hate women, jews, import slave labor from pakistan etc. that they can pay $.07/hr, often withholding wages for months on end altogether, to build palaces for those who've plundered the earth. And the very definition of corruption.

Israeli players are allowed in? Big damn deal. Must be scary for them. And what about Israelis who might want to watch? Hell, no, you dirty jews is their attitude.


you all have mighty strong opinions about places you've never been. I believe it's called oh yeah propoganda. I wonder how a women from Dubai would precieve Dubai. Do you know any.

nobama
02-23-2007, 09:11 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be about tennis...this one will get locked just like the other one.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 09:17 PM
I thought this thread was supposed to be about tennis...this one will get locked just like the other one.

Just like the other one it was never about tennis, people just use that as a smoke screen for their prejudice

Or Levy
02-23-2007, 09:30 PM
I doubt he even realizes the issues discussed here and if he does he probably doesn't give a shit :shrug:

He is being paid big $$$ is treated like royalty there- everything is hunky dory.

Probably so. Even if he has some thoughts on the issue, being neutral is the swiss's strong suit, LOL.

Even Shahar shot down any Dubai questions in her recent post match interview, and the press got orders to restrict their questions to "Tennis only".

I guess even she is tired from getting asked about it (BTW, she replied with "I can't play Dubai, that's not even a question")

Shabazza
02-23-2007, 09:53 PM
Just like the other one it was never about tennis, people just use that as a smoke screen for their prejudice

Does that surprise you? It's not like this is something new. People talking out of their ass about things they know nothing about was always a main part of any internet forum and always will be.
If people want to talk about politics and religion (as apparently those 2 come in a package these days), they can start a thread in the non-tennis section or go to other boards. Go take out your rethoric "clash of the cultures" somewhere else. This is getting tiresome.

Sunset of Age
02-23-2007, 10:01 PM
High time to close this thread or get it moved elsewhere...

kapranos
02-23-2007, 10:04 PM
It's funny how people are threatened by this thread. The ongoing censorship only proves Dubai imposes some form of control over this board.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 10:05 PM
It's funny how people are threatened by this thread. The ongoing censorship only proves Dubai imposes some form of control over this board.

are you a paranoid person, because your post about dubai make you sound like it, next you'll be blaming dubai for the fall of he soviet union.

Or Levy
02-23-2007, 10:21 PM
Personally, I think this is a place where sports and politics DO clash, and there should be a place for that on this fourm. Though I agree the thread wandered to places it shouldn't have. I also don't think it's black and white, there's a lot of grey here.

But to ask the question regarding Dubai should be allowed, it has to do with Tennis and politics both, because sports and politics DO often clash.

I also think that comparing it to other "middle east'' debates I've seen and been a part of in my life, this was a rather mild thread, to say the least. And people don't have to click on threads they disapprove of/bored with. Just because it's a touchy subject doesn't mean we should avoid it.

Yappa
02-23-2007, 10:26 PM
Yup! He's the only one who promptly replied to my emails about this issue. I'll post everytime I hear from him.

77 years old? Not bad.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 10:32 PM
Personally, I think this is a place where sports and politics DO clash, and there should be a place for that on this fourm. Though I agree the thread wandered to places it shouldn't have. I also don't think it's black and white, there's a lot of grey here.

But to ask the question regarding Dubai should be allowed, it has to do with Tennis and politics both, because sports and politics DO often clash.

I also think that comparing it to other "middle east'' debates I've seen and been a part of in my life, this was a rather mild thread, to say the least. And people don't have to click on threads they disapprove of/bored with. Just because it's a touchy subject doesn't mean we should avoid it.

No it's just this is a tennis forum. The couple of threads that have been dedicated to Dubai started off that way, and myself and a couple of people naively were actually arguing tennis on these threads. When I finally realized that the people we were arguing with were on a completely different thread. If you hate Dubai and are sympathetic to israel fine, just argue it some where else. Tennis fans should not have to listen to people bash their home when they come to a tennis forum. and because some people here are incapable of separating the two, it will always bleed over. If you can't handle separating the two different issues, and trust me I have my own opinions on the middle east, then don't comment on it. Up until I realized this wasn't about tennis anymore I left it out of the discussion and thought people were doing the same, like i said naive of me. Anyway This is not a political forum and shouldn't be turn into one. Or a hate forum

kapranos
02-23-2007, 10:34 PM
I left it out of the discussion

THEN LEAVE IT AGAIN. BYE.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 10:36 PM
THEN LEAVE IT AGAIN. BYE.

And Kapranos would be the shinning example of this.Can't even see past their own prejudice to comment on tennis, go to a political forum, I'm sure Israeal would appreciate your support

kapranos
02-23-2007, 10:38 PM
What prejudice? Are you reversing the roles? I fight against a prejudice!

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 10:40 PM
What prejudice? Are you reversing the roles? I fight against a prejudice!

Right because all of your, Dubai will exploit the world and the reason everyone will be enslaved in the future post are doing a wonderful job of that

kapranos
02-23-2007, 10:41 PM
Right because all of your, Dubai will exploit the world and the reason everyone will be enslaved in the future post are doing a wonderful job of that

Dubai will enslave the world. :eek: Are you writing Sci-fi or something.

Minotaur
02-23-2007, 10:42 PM
I don't get the idea.... What jewish players are forbidden to play this tournament? maybe Sela... but he could have started from qualies anyway. Levy, Okun... very doubtful. So what's the deal?

It looks like there are a lot of politically provoking people here who care much more about their shite than tennis

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 10:42 PM
Dubai will enslave the world. :eek: Are you writing Sci-fi or something.

No, but i love sci-fi. I do have an amazing imagination, maybe I should start.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 10:43 PM
I don't get the idea.... What jewish players are forbidden to play this tournament? maybe Sela... but he could have started from qualies anyway. Levy, Okun... very doubtful. So what's the deal?

It looks like there are a lot of politically provoking people here who care much more about their shite than tennis

Yep.....

dkw
02-23-2007, 10:45 PM
Quick question for the Moderators... exactly what are we allowed to talk about on MTF???

This seems like a relavant/interesting topic, for sure it's the first time I'm hearing UAE doesn't allow Israelis into their country and this seems to have direct implications for tennis/ATP.

Before formulating an opinion, I'd love to hear/read what other people think on this issue, but guess what??? The fu*kwith Moderators locked the thread before I even realized the issue was being discussed. Thanks a bunch!!

btw Thanks Veronique for having the balls to start another thread.

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 10:45 PM
What prejudice? Are you reversing the roles? I fight against a prejudice!

Sondraj's point is summarized in your signature.

No one seems to think that stopping Israeli sportspeople from entering Dubai is a nice or good decision by the UAE government. Everyone understands that it is a political situation within which the ATP has to work in this tournament.

However, your reaction (your signature) is the kind of attitude which perpetuates this type of problem. To repay crap with more crap. It is futile, it gets no one anywhere. It is not constructive. It does not help anyone understand anyone else's point.

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 10:48 PM
Quick question for the Moderators... exactly what are we allowed to talk about on MTF???

This seems like a relavant/interesting topic, for sure it's the first time I'm hearing UAE doesn't allow Israelis into their country and this seems to have direct implications for tennis/ATP.

Before formulating an opinion, I'd love to hear/read what other people think on this issue, but guess what??? The fu*kwith Moderators locked the thread before I even realized the issue was being discussed. Thanks a bunch!!

The thread is locked, but it still exists. You can read up on it. The thread title was something like Dubai is rich in money, richer in politics.

Btw, I believe saying
fu*kwith Moderators locked the thread before I even realized the issue was being discussed. Thanks a bunch will get you locked out along with any threads they deem unworthy. Dissing the mods is strictly prohibited.

kapranos
02-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Sondraj's point is summarized in your signature.

No one seems to think that stopping Israeli sportspeople from entering Dubai is a nice or good decision by the UAE government. Everyone understands that it is a political situation within which the ATP has to work in this tournament.

However, your reaction (your signature) is the kind of attitude which perpetuates this type of problem. To repay crap with more crap. It is futile, it gets no one anywhere. It is not constructive. It does not help anyone understand anyone else's point.

My signature expresses my opinion on the issue. If you don't like, it sucks to be you. :devil:

kapranos
02-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Dissing the mods is strictly prohibited.

Mods suck!

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 10:50 PM
Quick question for the Moderators... exactly what are we allowed to talk about on MTF???

This seems like a relavant/interesting topic, for sure it's the first time I'm hearing UAE doesn't allow Israelis into their country and this seems to have direct implications for tennis/ATP.

Before formulating an opinion, I'd love to hear/read what other people think on this issue, but guess what??? The fu*kwith Moderators locked the thread before I even realized the issue was being discussed. Thanks a bunch!!

btw Thanks Veronique for having the balls to start another thread.

No, the moderators closed that last thread because there were some unsavory comments made toward arabs, that should not be tolerated in any forum. And it's they right to close something that has nothing to do with tennis in a tennis forum, and that's exactly where that thread was going. For anyone who wants to have a converstion about the atp's responsiblity in regards to dubai and not about Dubai then my suggestion is, for people to grow up and learn how to seperate the two, so this thread or any in the future doesn't take a ugly turn like that last thread

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 10:51 PM
My signature expresses my opinion on the issue. If you don't like, it sucks to be you. :devil:

You are deluded if you think the quality of my life depends on your signature.

dkw
02-23-2007, 10:52 PM
Mods suck!

I concur!! *goes off to search for locked thread*

kapranos
02-23-2007, 10:54 PM
I concur!! *goes off to search for locked thread*

They delete 2 of my threads, each of them were 7 pages long. :mad:

Shabazza
02-23-2007, 10:54 PM
Sondraj's point is summarized in your signature.

No one seems to think that stopping Israeli sportspeople from entering Dubai is a nice or good decision by the UAE government. Everyone understands that it is a political situation within which the ATP has to work in this tournament.

However, your reaction (your signature) is the kind of attitude which perpetuates this type of problem. To repay crap with more crap. It is futile, it gets no one anywhere. It is not constructive. It does not help anyone understand anyone else's point.

Well said. Sadly many people don't understand this.
I had more than enough of these kind of threads on poltical boards and when I'm fed up with the BS some people come up with there, the last thing I want to see is a similar thread(not as heated fortunately) on a tennis board.

Lee
02-23-2007, 10:58 PM
They delete 2 of my threads, each of them were 7 pages long. :mad:

Don't play the innocent when you know why your threads were removed. And the original Dubai thread is still there, right?

That thread is here for sometimes already until some posters turned it into something else and mods closed it to cool things down. And this one will end up the same if some of the posters here continue with the current trend.

Shabazza
02-23-2007, 10:59 PM
They delete 2 of my threads, each of them were 7 pages long. :mad:

Oh, that's why you are mad!? Do you keep stats about how well your threads fair? I realize this must suck for you then. Poor you. :sad:

dkw
02-23-2007, 11:05 PM
I had more than enough of these kind of threads on poltical boards and when I'm fed up with the BS some people come up with there, the last thing I want to see is a similar thread(not as heated fortunately) on a tennis board.

The internet reflects life... and if your life is sectioned off into neat little parts that never overlap then lucky you!

The thing that attracts me to tennis is that it is an international/global sport and all the "politics" we face in the real world gets played out here.

The fact that I can talk about the Arab/Israeli conflict, equal pay for women, gay rights, etc. all while talking tennis or with people who care about tennis, appeals to me.

kapranos
02-23-2007, 11:08 PM
[QUOTE=Lee;4926373]Don't play the innocent when you know why your threads were removed. QUOTE]

BS. Normally those thread should have been closed, not deleted.

kapranos
02-23-2007, 11:08 PM
The internet reflects life... and if your life is sectioned off into neat little parts that never overlap then lucky you!

The thing that attracts me to tennis is that it is an international/global sport and all the "politics" we face in the real world gets played out here.

The fact that I can talk about the Arab/Israeli conflict, equal pay for women, gay rights, etc. all while talking tennis or with people who care about tennis, appeals to me.

I totally agree!

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 11:09 PM
The internet reflects life... and if your life is sectioned off into neat little parts that never overlap then lucky you!

The thing that attracts me to tennis is that it is an international/global sport and all the "politics" we face in the real world gets played out here.

The fact that I can talk about the Arab/Israeli conflict, equal pay for women, gay rights, etc. all while talking tennis or with people who care about tennis, appeals to me.

Neither Shabazza nor some of the other posters are disagreeing with this.

However, these things can be discussed without throwing out insults of broad generalizations about people like J Torian alluded to above. Everyone was discussing the Middle East problem in a decent manner, with a myriad of different viewpoints, until it disintegrated due to a FEW narrow minded bigots who made it personal. Cheap shots, insults, etc. The mods did the right thing to shut that down.

kapranos
02-23-2007, 11:12 PM
I didn't read any comment that wasn't decent. Sometimes the reality is what it is and a cat needs to be called a cat.

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 11:13 PM
I didn't read any comment that wasn't decent. Sometimes the reality is what it is and a cat needs to be called a cat.

That comment was appropriately deleted by the mods. That is why you don't see it and that is what closed the thread.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 11:16 PM
I didn't read any comment that wasn't decent. Sometimes the reality is what it is and a cat needs to be called a cat.

I see you're making no effort to bring tennis back into the discussion but I suppose you wouldn't if you are content with the content of these threads. why don't you bring tennis back into it. Hum make a point that reflects, what some people say and has crossed over into folk lore, these threads are about, tennis.

dkw
02-23-2007, 11:18 PM
It would only be a relevant and interesting topic if some of the more asinine contributors to these threads would stop throwing about bigoted insults, broad misconceptions, and inflammatory language in reference to an entire nation of people.

Yes, but these things don't get resolved in silence.

If we as a group are discussing an issue and someone comes up with some outlandish, baseless remark, then it's up to the rest of the group to constructively critique this user until through TALKING we can come up with a consensus opinion of how we collectively view the world.

What pisses me off with these Moderators is that thier first impluse is to lock a thread. So big surprise that you get a group of offenders who are always popping up who don't know how to carry on a civilized debate - they never get a chance to learn!!

And while I'm bit*hing... another thing about locking the thread is that it falls to the second or third page pretty quickly, so if you're like me and you can only come on once a day, then you'll miss a hot topic entirely becasue it's been artifically quelched.

That's my fifty cents... seems these days all I do in bit*h about moderators.

Or Levy
02-23-2007, 11:19 PM
No it's just this is a tennis forum. The couple of threads that have been dedicated to Dubai started off that way, and myself and a couple of people naively were actually arguing tennis on these threads. When I finally realized that the people we were arguing with were on a completely different thread. If you hate Dubai and are sympathetic to israel fine, just argue it some where else. Tennis fans should not have to listen to people bash their home when they come to a tennis forum. and because some people here are incapable of separating the two, it will always bleed over. If you can't handle separating the two different issues, and trust me I have my own opinions on the middle east, then don't comment on it. Up until I realized this wasn't about tennis anymore I left it out of the discussion and thought people were doing the same, like i said naive of me. Anyway This is not a political forum and shouldn't be turn into one. Or a hate forum

Yes, as I said - the thread went to places it shouldn't have and both parties played a part (including myself). But concerning the original question - of whether Israelis can play Dubai or not is a factual question (and yet the answer is still a bit unclear, at least to me, because there the letter of the law, the exceptions that could be made (and IMHO probably would), and what message the Israeli players are getting from the ATP and WTA) - and this IS a place to ask that factual question, because it concerns Tennis players, their option of tournaments, the WTA and the ATP.

It does raise political issues, but I think that raising the question (Are they or are they not allowed to play in Dubai) is a valid topic. To keep it from going off topic (difficult, because the topic is related to the middle east and middle east topics tend to be as explosive as the middle east itself) is our responsibility as posters.

The question of Dubai and human rights issues in general is different from the question about the Israeli players, because one directly affects tennis and tennis players and the other does not.

I do think discussing the choices of tournaments location with regard to moral issues actually can been counted as a tennis issue, but it's still a bad idea. People here can't handle a fed/Rafa conversation without losing it :)

kapranos
02-23-2007, 11:20 PM
I see you're making no effort to bring tennis back into the discussion but I suppose you wouldn't if you are content with the content of these threads. why don't you bring tennis back into it. Hum make a point that reflects, what some people say and has crossed over into folk lore, these threads are about, tennis.

I think the ATP should cancel dubai and replace it with a tournament like Lyon, Stockholm, St-Petersburg, Vienna, etc.

Lee
02-23-2007, 11:21 PM
How many locked threads there are in this board, dkw?

If the mods impulse is to close thread like you said, half of the threads in MTF would be closed.

R.Federer
02-23-2007, 11:29 PM
Yes, as I said - the thread went to places it shouldn't have and both parties played a part (including myself).

You didn't say anything inflammatory or insulting or in general anything that contributed to the demise of that thread.

Or Levy
02-23-2007, 11:31 PM
I think the ATP should cancel dubai and replace it with a tournament like Lyon, Stockholm, St-Petersburg, Vienna, etc.

Dubai won't get cancled, and frankly if it would - the Israelis would be worse off. As RonE said above, they love the money.

Some thing are counter-productive. I can see it by some of the recent comments of the Israeli players, they do not want to make a huge issue out of it and I suspect they know what they are doing.

After thinking about it last night, I thought that maybe they rather leave it alone, because if Israelis *are* allowed to play (by exception, as I don't believe the UAE policy would change any time soon), and yet our state department would advise against it for security reasons, they are going to look like ass-holes.

So, this is my last two cents on the subject matter.

My hope is that at some point an olive branch would be extanded, and I think raising the question is affective enough witout hasty calls to boycott.

kapranos
02-23-2007, 11:34 PM
Dubai won't get cancled, and frankly if it would - the Israelis would be worse off. As RonE said above, they love the money.

But don't players always complain that the season is too long? The first step would be to cancel tournaments with poor attendence and in dubai case a controversial tournament.

sondraj06
02-23-2007, 11:37 PM
Dubai won't get cancled, and frankly if it would - the Israelis would be worse off. As RonE said above, they love the money.

Some thing are counter-productive. I can see it by some of the recent comments of the Israeli players, they do not want to make a huge issue out of it and I suspect they know what they are doing.

After thinking about it last night, I thought that maybe they rather leave it alone, because if Israelis *are* allowed to play (by exception, as I don't believe the UAE policy would change any time soon), and yet our state department would advise against it for security reasons, they are going to look like ass-holes.

So, this is my last two cents on the subject matter.

My hope is that at some point an olive branch would be extanded, and I think raising the question is affective enough witout hasty calls to boycott.

I do agree 100%. And this post is exactly what I'm talking about. it is completely reasonable to expect people to discuss the topic with out it going into a realm that has nothing to do with that topic, and for those who see the middle east and / the atp and Dubai issue as the same that is the reason that last thread went south, they are separate issue and should be left that.

Or Levy
02-23-2007, 11:39 PM
You didn't say anything inflammatory or insulting or in general anything that contributed to the demise of that thread.

Well, I hope so, but I did assist in taking it off "Tennis in the middle east" and well into "The middle east, etc". :)

I didn't see what killed the thread eventually, I assumed it was the general direction it went.

Peoples
02-23-2007, 11:46 PM
Nobody said that all arabs are terrorists or that they're run by dictatorial powers bent on building their own glory and producing their largest export, hate.

RonE
02-24-2007, 12:00 AM
Yes, as I said - the thread went to places it shouldn't have and both parties played a part (including myself). But concerning the original question - of whether Israelis can play Dubai or not is a factual question (and yet the answer is still a bit unclear, at least to me, because there the letter of the law, the exceptions that could be made (and IMHO probably would), and what message the Israeli players are getting from the ATP and WTA) - and this IS a place to ask that factual question, because it concerns Tennis players, their option of tournaments, the WTA and the ATP.

It does raise political issues, but I think that raising the question (Are they or are they not allowed to play in Dubai) is a valid topic. To keep it from going off topic (difficult, because the topic is related to the middle east and middle east topics tend to be as explosive as the middle east itself) is our responsibility as posters.

The question of Dubai and human rights issues in general is different from the question about the Israeli players, because one directly affects tennis and tennis players and the other does not.

I do think discussing the choices of tournaments location with regard to moral issues actually can been counted as a tennis issue, but it's still a bad idea. People here can't handle a fed/Rafa conversation without losing it :)

Well said :yeah:

There is quite a bit of ambiguity around this sensitive issue and yes it does seem that everyone involved- players, tournament directors etc- would like to keep it that way.

Regarding the exceptions- there are under the table trade agreements between Israel and some of the Gulf states (UAE, and Qatar I think) and there are Israeli business representatives that go to those places and are granted entry. Of course you don't hear of those things because advertising it out loud would be bad for business on both ends but again it goes to prove the point that even prejudices and hostilities are put aside when money and opportunity are involved.

Or Levy
02-24-2007, 12:03 AM
But don't players always complain that the season is too long? The first step would be to cancel tournaments with poor attendence and in dubai case a controversial tournament.

The question to ask is exactly what you want to accomplish.

The season is too long? The tournament the players would want to cancel isn't the one which pays the most, though if Roger Federer continue to practice there and win it every year too, maybe we'll have something to talk about. ;)

Poor attendence is an issue (the empty seats are aggravating to watch), but I doubt it's going to be enough.

That leaves the controvesery, and for anything like that to happen the Israeli players needs to be a 100% committed to playing there, and they probably aren't right now for security reasons.

If things in Israel /the region heat up again, no sane Israeli player would feel like going to Amman to catch a flight to Dubai, I don't think that extra stress would help them win tournaments.

And you can't use a 'it's not safe for Israelis therefore the tournament shouldn't take place" because that would put any tournaments in Israel in a serious problem.

So that leaves Dubai and human rights issues, regardless of admitting Israelis in to the country and wars in general, and there you go into the whole murky area of "West imposing its values on Islam" and the WTA and ATP would probably PAY money so they wouldn't have to touch that.

I've been doing a great deal of thinking on this subject lately, and that's sort of what I came up with.

I may change my opinion if Shahar Peer or A&J say they very commited to playing there. Then it may worth a battle, but right now I don't see any of our leading sports organization commenting or pushing toward that, and it may be a priorities issues - maybe they are bargaining for another tounrament in Israel instead? I have no idea - but there has to be a reason why we are being rather hush hush about it, it's not usually our style.

sondraj06
02-24-2007, 12:14 AM
Oh I like where this thread is headed...seems practice makes perfect..

Socket
02-24-2007, 12:29 AM
He will have a canned diplomatic reply to a question like this.

If you are a nuclear scientist and attend a conference for all nuclear scientists in the US, where nuclear scientists from Libya, Iran, North Korea and Pakistan are banned from attending, would you also not attend? It does not necessarily make you selfish. You might feel bad about your scientist-colleagues, but you also realize that a big part of why you do your job is regardless of them.

US non-immigrant visas for nationals of countries like North Korea actually can be obtained. It's not easy, I grant you, but it's not impossible, either. A lot depends on the purpose of the visit.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info_1300.html

Socket
02-24-2007, 12:36 AM
Probably so. Even if he has some thoughts on the issue, being neutral is the swiss's strong suit, LOL.

Even Shahar shot down any Dubai questions in her recent post match interview, and the press got orders to restrict their questions to "Tennis only".

I guess even she is tired from getting asked about it (BTW, she replied with "I can't play Dubai, that's not even a question")

IIRC, when she was asked about this last year, she responded something along of the lines of, "my mother would never let me." :)

Or Levy
02-24-2007, 12:39 AM
IIRC, when she was asked about this last year, she responded something along of the lines of, "my mother would never let me." :)


LOL, blame it on the mother :) Works every time and very diplomatic.

Very savvy, Shahar... never mind it's probably true.

nobama
02-24-2007, 02:12 AM
How come we don't have threads like this at the beginning of the year when players are in Doha? Qatar also refuses entry to holders of passports issued by Israel. I guess I don't remember anyone here complaining about that tournament.

kapranos
02-24-2007, 03:43 AM
How come we don't have threads like this at the beginning of the year when players are in Doha? Qatar also refuses entry to holders of passports issued by Israel. I guess I don't remember anyone here complaining about that tournament.

Because we're too busy partying and drinking :devil:

Socket
02-24-2007, 11:59 AM
How come we don't have threads like this at the beginning of the year when players are in Doha? Qatar also refuses entry to holders of passports issued by Israel. I guess I don't remember anyone here complaining about that tournament.

There was a discussion on Bodo's site, because he brought it up.

nobama
02-24-2007, 12:42 PM
There was a discussion on Bodo's site, because he brought it up.
Ok I'll have to go find that and read it.

dkw
02-25-2007, 07:46 AM
Oh I like where this thread is headed...seems practice makes perfect..
I concur!!!

My thoughts on the subject (now that I've calmed down from my Mod rage) is that sports and the athletes who transcend their sport have always been at the forefront of bringing people together. They are able to show us that even though we are different (race, religion, culture) our human aspirations are exactly the same. Shahar Peer's desire to succeed is exactly the same as Sania Mirza's. And if people, from either side, as well as the general public, are given more opportunities to see this "sameness" I think that would help in breaking down prejudices.

So IMO neither the players nor the fans should boycott Dubai. Yes the UAE rules sucks but if the ATP can help Israeli athletes by-pass these restrictions then they should go to Dubai and stand alongside the rest of the players from all over the world and be ambassadors for their country.

nobama
02-25-2007, 12:11 PM
Because we're too busy partying and drinking :devil:Yes of course that comes before standing up for the plight of Israelis, how could I have forgotten.

I think it was you who said one of the reasons they should end the tournament in Dubai is because of empty stands. Well I watched the women's final there yesterday and it was packed, not an empty seat.

nobama
02-25-2007, 12:25 PM
Here's what Nadal said today (or it might have been yesterday):

“The public was unbelievable with me,” said the Spanish teenager. “Every day the court was full when I played and they supported me a lot and I want to say thank you very much to everybody.

“I already had good memories of Dubai from the last time I was here, and I love it. It’s one of my favourite tournaments. It’s a special place, a city built in the desert. In a few years, if not already, it will be one of the biggest tourist attractions in the world.”

Komodo
02-25-2007, 12:50 PM
Mirkaland, I don't know what your agenda is, but please don't get off topic just because you don't like the legitimate discussion the Dubai policy towards Israelis raises.

Nobody has questioned that the tournament doesn't treat the players in general very well. I could go on quoting 10 other players saying how great the tournament is & how well they are treated. That isn't making a point. That's not the issue. Remember, the tournament also gives out a huge amount of prize money. Of course players will love it.
So stop being idiotic, quite frankly.

It is not right for a sports tournament to exclude or bring obvious hostility towards certain players. Not because of their color, nationality, sexuality. Not because of anything.
Sports should NEVER be allowed to be used as a medium to carry political messages.
When that line is crossed, as in the case of Dubai, you have to seriously consider sanctions, or at least putting some pressure to show that this can't & won't be tolerated.

Safin-rules-no.1, no they can't. Grow up.

Mirkaland, I don't get why you and some others don't want to deal with this & do everything to just hide it away as quickly as possible. You can't say it's a non-issue. Is it because you like Federer and he's a Dubai fan? Is it because you really don't like Israel? Is it because you like when sports, in this case our own beloved sport, is being politicized?
Well, I don't, and that's why voices have to be raised.

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with how you stand in the Israel vs. Arabic world conflict.
If you take your stand on this based on how you look at that conflict, you are one simple-minded person.
One is politics, the other sports.

komodo

nobama
02-25-2007, 01:12 PM
Mirkaland, I don't know what your agenda is, but please don't get off topic just because you don't like the legitimate discussion the Dubai policy towards Israelis raises.

Nobody has questioned that the tournament doesn't treat the players in general very well. I could go on quoting 10 other players saying how great the tournament is & how well they are treated. That isn't making a point. That's not the issue. Remember, the tournament also gives out a huge amount of prize money. Of course players will love it.
So stop being idiotic, quite frankly.

It is not right for a sports tournament to exclude or bring obvious hostility towards certain players. Not because of their color, nationality, sexuality. Not because of anything.
Sports should NEVER be allowed to be used as a medium to carry political messages.
When that line is crossed, as in the case of Dubai, you have to seriously consider sanctions, or at least putting some pressure to show that this can't & won't be tolerated.

Safin-rules-no.1, no they can't. Grow up.

Mirkaland, I don't get why you and some others don't want to deal with this & do everything to just hide it away as quickly as possible. You can't say it's a non-issue. Is it because you like Federer and he's a Dubai fan? Is it because you really don't like Israel? Is it because you like when sports, in this case our own beloved sport, is being politicized?
Well, I don't, and that's why voices have to be raised.

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with how you stand in the Israel vs. Arabic world conflict.
If you take your stand on this based on how you look at that conflict, you are one simple-minded person.
One is politics, the other sports.

komodoWho has to consider sanctions? The ATP? ITF? :confused: The event is not going anywhere because of the $$ involved and the players love it there. If you're really concerned about it, call the ATP/WTA and complain, write the players that enter the event and say 'shame on you for being a bunch of money grubbing athletes being used by the UAE for political purposes'.

Verd
02-25-2007, 01:20 PM
It is not right for a sports tournament to exclude or bring obvious hostility towards certain players. Not because of their color, nationality, sexuality. Not because of anything.
Sports should NEVER be allowed to be used as a medium to carry political messages.

:haha: Besides the fact that it's already been established that the tournament does not have an exclusion policy and that it's the government that's the problem, what's hilariously inconsistent about your statement is that you insist that sport should never "carry political messages" and yet you can't seem to grasp why some people in this thread think the ATP shouldn't involve themselves in this issue. :tape:

And great move calling someone "idiotic" and accusing them of having an "anti-Israel" agenda simply because they disagree with you on the role of sports in this matter. It's that kind of inflammatory and discourteous talk that will eventually get this thread closed, and as long as that kind of talk persists I for one think that closing can't come soon enough.

scoobs
02-25-2007, 01:40 PM
Please everyone be as abusive as possible so this pointless rehash of a thread can be closed, we can get through the tournament this coming week, and these armchair diplomats can forget about their indignant crusade for another year and refocus on their own petty concerns.

What really bugs me is that people will come on here and endlessly bleat because it makes them feel good about themselves without actually taking any responsibility upon their shoulders to try and bring about real, actual change.

Komodo
02-25-2007, 01:46 PM
:haha: Besides the fact that it's already been established that the tournament does not have an exclusion policy and that it's the government that's the problem, what's hilariously inconsistent about your statement is that you insist that sport should never "carry political messages" and yet you can't seem to grasp why some people in this thread think the ATP shouldn't involve themselves in this issue. :tape:


I'm sorry, but what you write here makes absolutely no sense at all.

The ATP has to make sure that no tournament is being used to politicize!
If the ATP puts pressure on Dubai, that is NOT a political statement in itself in any way. It is merely the message, that politication in general, no matter of what, where and in which circumstances, will not be accpeted. That can't be so hard to grasp for you, to use your words?

Finally, yes, it is idiotic to start quoting players saying how great the Dubai tournament treats players, or how nice Dubai is. That isn't the topic discussed at all. It's just sidetracking, and off-leading.

I myself may be the biggest Dubai fan, you can't know that in any way.
I will always speak out when sports is being misused for politics, and I know it's the right thing to do.

nobama
02-25-2007, 02:06 PM
I'm sorry, but what you write here makes absolutely no sense at all.

The ATP has to make sure that no tournament is being used to politicize!
If the ATP puts pressure on Dubai, that is NOT a political statement in itself in any way. It is merely the message, that politication in general, no matter of what, where and in which circumstances, will not be accpeted. That can't be so hard to grasp for you, to use your words?

Finally, yes, it is idiotic to start quoting players saying how great the Dubai tournament treats players, or how nice Dubai is. That isn't the topic discussed at all. It's just sidetracking, and off-leading.

I myself may be the biggest Dubai fan, you can't know that in any way.
I will always speak out when sports is being misused for politics, and I know it's the right thing to do.How is the Dubai tournament currently being used for political purposes? It seems you want it to be by the ATP putting pressure on Dubai, or as others have suggested cancelling the event all together :shrug:

My agenda is simple. Tennis players should do what they do best, which is to play tennis, and stay out of politics. These are official WTA/ATP sanctioned events. If players want to play there I don't have a problem with it.

Loremaster
02-25-2007, 02:15 PM
I think everyone should be in the same position no matter our nationality, race, religion etc that's why I don't like Dubai tournament I watch it by it is digusting that they don't give equal chances for everyone. Where living in XXI century not in XII.
It always produces great matches and great players are showing up, but it is only due to amount of money nothing else.

On the other hand they should just allow Israeli players to play there I am sure none of them would show up.

Komodo
02-25-2007, 02:17 PM
Hi Mirkaland,

yes, tennis players should just play tennis. But the ATP and WTA have to make sure that everybody can play in the tournaments they by their ranking are elligible for without any problems whatsoever, certainly not any problems caused by their nationality.

That is not established in this case, now is it?

How is it a political statement if the ATP/WTA demand of Dubai to make their tournament friendly towards players of every nationality in this world? That is solely correct and completely neutral.

I know that the spectators may be extremely hostile towards Israeli players, and that's not easy to do anything about, but it should be an absolute CAKEWALK for Shahar Peer to at least enter the Dubai tournament whenever she would feel like it. Everything else is unacceptable.

I honestly don't see how any one can't agree with this.

Loremaster
02-25-2007, 02:18 PM
Hi Mirkaland,

yes, tennis players should just play tennis. But the ATP and WTA have to make sure that everybody can play in the tournaments they by their ranking are elligible for without any problems whatsoever, certainly not any problems caused by their nationality.

That is not established in this case, now is it?

How is it a political statement if the ATP/WTA demand of Dubai to make their tournament friendly towards players of every nationality in this world? That is solely correct and completely neutral.

I know that the spectators may be extremely hostile towards Israeli players, and that's not easy to do anything about, but it should be an absolute CAKEWALK for Shahar Peer to at least enter the Dubai tournament whenever she would feel like it. Everything else is unacceptable.

I honestly don't see how any one can't agree with this.

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:
Great Post Komodo

scoobs
02-25-2007, 02:21 PM
I wonder if the Israeli Govt has gone on record expressing any opinions on this particular subject.

sondraj06
02-25-2007, 03:42 PM
Hi Mirkaland,

yes, tennis players should just play tennis. But the ATP and WTA have to make sure that everybody can play in the tournaments they by their ranking are elligible for without any problems whatsoever, certainly not any problems caused by their nationality.

That is not established in this case, now is it?

How is it a political statement if the ATP/WTA demand of Dubai to make their tournament friendly towards players of every nationality in this world? That is solely correct and completely neutral.

I know that the spectators may be extremely hostile towards Israeli players, and that's not easy to do anything about, but it should be an absolute CAKEWALK for Shahar Peer to at least enter the Dubai tournament whenever she would feel like it. Everything else is unacceptable.

I honestly don't see how any one can't agree with this.

what did you miss every post before this one, the atp/wta did makes sure all there players can play now whether they do or don't due to they're own accord is up to them, the atp/wta roles is done.. got that how hard is that to understand

FluffyYellowBall
02-25-2007, 06:25 PM
Like all other sports tournaments (olymics for example) athletes should be allowed to have special access to dubai. Its the best thing thats happened to middle eastern tennis and i think its bringing great publicity and a lot of attention.

SGM
02-25-2007, 06:38 PM
Nadal Enjoys a Splashing Good Time Prior to Dubai Tennis Championships

http://www.dubaitennischampionships.com/2/news/2007/news33.asp


The players are having a fun time in Dubai and some of you are politicaly brain washed. Grow up and have a life you mentaly sick losers.

Do you think these players give a shit about what some of you think. I bet you people are Jeoulse because you can't go to Dubai and have a good time like these players.

FluffyYellowBall
02-25-2007, 06:45 PM
who exactly r u referring too? Players or what?

nobama
02-25-2007, 08:03 PM
safin-rules-no.1, do you enjoy having your posts deleted?

nisha
02-25-2007, 08:09 PM
what another thred about this stupid idea...sports and politics should never mix!

Lee
02-25-2007, 11:10 PM
Since you are so fond of "opinions" try this one on for size:

You are a hate-spewing, bigoted, racist asshole :)

Said poster is trying to get this thread closed.

It's up to everyone else to try to follow suit or not.

IMHO, this's another trying to beat a dead horse thread.

RonE
02-25-2007, 11:12 PM
Said poster is trying to get this thread closed.

It's up to everyone else to try to follow suit or not.

IMHO, this's another trying to beat a dead horse thread.

I'm completely in favour of closing this thread. I don't understand why it was ressurected in the first place after the original thread was closed :shrug:

Lee
02-25-2007, 11:21 PM
I'm completely in favour of closing this thread. I don't understand why it was ressurected in the first place after the original thread was closed :shrug:

The original thread was closed because there were some nasty posts which were deleted. And to cool things down and prevent further insults flying around, the mod closed the thread.

When this thread resurrected, mods try to give a second chance for the discussion.

This thread won't be closed as long as posters trying to be reasonable and comment on the topic without personal attacks. Although lots of posters believe MTF is run under dictatorship and sanctions, it's not really the case. :p

cobalt60
02-25-2007, 11:44 PM
I don't think the original intention of this thread was to resurrect the topic of the old one. They can correct me if I am wrong but it was to post a response to the question she asked of Bud Collins. I think she wanted him to ask if Fed or any other player would consider boycotting Dubai. At lesat that was what I took from it :shrug: Leave it to others to take the whole controversy and go with it again.:(

Experimentee
02-26-2007, 05:04 AM
The Israeli players can't play there because their passports don't allow them to. There are no diplomatic relations between Israel and certain countries. It doesnt matter who they are. Its not anything to do with hating Jews, as Jews with other passports will be allowed in.

Its the same with Israel, people with Malaysian or Indonesian passports for example cannot enter Israel. My parents cant because they have Malaysian passports.

R.Federer
02-26-2007, 05:15 AM
Its the same with Israel, people with Malaysian or Indonesian passports for example cannot enter Israel. My parents cant because they have Malaysian passports.

Sorry for prying, but is that because they are Malaysian or Malaysian Muslim? I am only trying to understand if Israel has similar visa blocking principle as UAE/Dubai.

Or Levy
02-26-2007, 06:27 AM
That's not true. They would need to apply for a visa, and some countries doesn't - but they would probably get to come. A Malaysian passport? I don't see it would be any big problem.

Come on, Israel was suppose to host Indonesia for the, hmm... was it the Fed cup? last year? They definitly got invited, we were HOPING they would come, the Tennis association was thrilled they chose to actually arrive after much debate. The region heat up not long before they were due here and they didn't show.

safin-rules-no.1
02-26-2007, 06:55 AM
Said poster is trying to get this thread closed.

It's up to everyone else to try to follow suit or not.

IMHO, this's another trying to beat a dead horse thread.

i was never trying to get this thread closed Lee - i really dont care if they play or not :p

Hugh Jaas
02-26-2007, 08:27 AM
If you was a tennis player who isn't Marat safin/tim henman/LUBO who never gets paid huge $$$$$$$$$ to enter a tournament (e.g Nikolay davydenko).

which one would Would you enter?

a: las vagas with a pathetic $416,000 prize fund

b: Dubai with a HUGE $1,426,450 prize fund

Tennis players are not political activists, they will go where they can earn the best $$$$ for their skills.


the £/$ rules NOT pathetic whinging from a MTF member with a axe to grind.