Britain ranked worst for childhood [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Britain ranked worst for childhood

Bilbo
02-14-2007, 04:05 PM
1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12 = Canada
12 = Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. U.S.
21 UK


Full story at http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/14/children.survey.reut/index.html

Anyone surprised with the U.S. and UK ranking last? Me not.

charlie chalk
02-14-2007, 06:11 PM
Not at all surprised, family life in the UK has almost entirely disappeared and children are worse off for it.

NeverSayDie
02-14-2007, 06:16 PM
:rolleyes:

Hmmm.........

Bilbo
02-14-2007, 06:18 PM
funny how the US didn't mentioned their own country in the title.

here in germany the news in at the front page everywhere with self-critics. at least they try to do anything to make it better.

but what do you expect from countries like the us and uk who kill other people around the world. hard to believe they have good politics for children in their own country. as we see they didn't. they care less for their own people. just pathetic this bush and blair.

NeverSayDie
02-14-2007, 06:25 PM
funny how the US didn't mentioned their own country in the title.

here in germany the news in at the front page everywhere with self-critics. at least they try to do anything to make it better.

but what do you expect from countries like the us and uk who kill other people around the world. hard to believe they have good politics for children in their own country. as we see they didn't. they care less for their own people. just pathetic this bush and blair.

I agree :yeah:

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 06:31 PM
funny how the US didn't mentioned their own country in the title.

here in germany the news in at the front page everywhere with self-critics. at least they try to do anything to make it better.

but what do you expect from countries like the us and uk who kill other people around the world. hard to believe they have good politics for children in their own country. as we see they didn't. they care less for their own people. just pathetic this bush and blair.

It just kills me how informed everyone one outside of the U.S are so damn informed about american culture, because they watch a couple of baywatch episode and listen to Britney spears. Get over yourselves.

Bilbo
02-14-2007, 06:50 PM
It just kills me how informed everyone one outside of the U.S are so damn informed about american culture, because they watch a couple of baywatch episode and listen to Britney spears. Get over yourselves.

Whenever i check any news websites of the US I never read anything about family politics. Just Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Wars, Blasts etc. :o Just negative things all the time.

And you wonder why everyone has a gun there and high crime. Not the best place for children someone might think.

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 07:23 PM
You don't live here, you know what your limited too, I grew up here. still am alive and guess what never been incarcarated. America is now worse than any other country, we have our problems should we nit pick your countries issues.

RickDaStick
02-14-2007, 07:24 PM
America blows.

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 07:29 PM
America blows.

Funny so do you, your boyfriend told me.:)

MisterQ
02-14-2007, 07:43 PM
That's it, I'm moving to Hungary.

zicofirol
02-14-2007, 08:04 PM
funny how the US didn't mentioned their own country in the title.

here in germany the news in at the front page everywhere with self-critics. at least they try to do anything to make it better.

but what do you expect from countries like the us and uk who kill other people around the world. hard to believe they have good politics for children in their own country. as we see they didn't. they care less for their own people. just pathetic this bush and blair.

yeah Germans never killed anyone outside of their country, they just sistematicaly tried to wipe out jews and gays in their own country and then they went after the rest of Europe... something for which they never paid for BTW...

This report is so BS, no way living in Greece or Italy is better than living in the US or Canada , I am not sure what is used as a basis for this report, but it is from Unicef, so it is obviously biased...

Oh and aside from watching MTV and going to cnn.com where do you get your information on America, I swear the impression people have of America around the world is so , so way off, its not even funny, there is plenty, more than plenty of America bashing here, plenty of it...

And you wonder why everyone has a gun there and high crime. Not the best place for children someone might think.
mexico has lower gun ownership than the US, what country do you think has more crime?

alelysafina
02-14-2007, 08:29 PM
funny how the US didn't mentioned their own country in the title.

here in germany the news in at the front page everywhere with self-critics. at least they try to do anything to make it better.

but what do you expect from countries like the us and uk who kill other people around the world. hard to believe they have good politics for children in their own country. as we see they didn't. they care less for their own people. just pathetic this bush and blair.

I have no idea what you people are talking about. I had a fucking amazing childhood in the US, better than it would've been if my parents had raised me in Mexico or anywhere else. I had family and neighbors who would send cookies over during christmas and easter, people who would say hello to you down the street, parks and a playgruond nearby with tons of kids to play with it was effin' awesome!
And we were pretty poor because my mom pretty much raised us on her own and it was still great.

LK_22
02-14-2007, 08:44 PM
funny how the US didn't mentioned their own country in the title.

here in germany the news in at the front page everywhere with self-critics. at least they try to do anything to make it better.

but what do you expect from countries like the us and uk who kill other people around the world. hard to believe they have good politics for children in their own country. as we see they didn't. they care less for their own people. just pathetic this bush and blair.

You might want to try actually LIVING in one of these countries before passing judgement on how good a life is there

Bilbo
02-14-2007, 09:05 PM
I have no idea what you people are talking about. I had a fucking amazing childhood in the US, better than it would've been if my parents had raised me in Mexico or anywhere else. I had family and neighbors who would send cookies over during christmas and easter, people who would say hello to you down the street, parks and a playgruond nearby with tons of kids to play with it was effin' awesome!
And we were pretty poor because my mom pretty much raised us on her own and it was still great.

the list contains industrial nations only. mexico is out of the race.

El Legenda
02-14-2007, 09:15 PM
this tells us a lot about Adam :lol: :awww:

Clara Bow
02-14-2007, 09:16 PM
Does anyone know the rates of children living in poverty for these industrialized countries?

I am from the US and love my country- but I do know that the rising rate of homeless children, children growing up in severe urban poverty, as well as poverty in other areas. etc. is alarming. I have friends who are social workers in Chicago, Austin, Atlanta and Brownsville (for those not from the US- that is a bordertown between the US and Mexico)- and even though all are very different areas with very different types of poverty- there is an increasing percentage of children growing up in under the poverty line.

One of the saddest things to me is that in a lot of US school districts- particularly in the urban areas- the school systems can be awful for some kids that go to public schools. I know that the Chicago ISD has its problems. With such bad systems in certain areas- it can be really hard to break the "cycle of poverty." It can be hard to lift oneself up by the bootstrap when the only materials around for the bootstrap are filled with problems.

Again- I am not trying to bash the US- I am just curious as to how things are in terms of children living in poverty in other industrialized nations.

(Sorry for using the word "poverty" so much....)

Bilbo
02-14-2007, 09:17 PM
I have no idea what you people are talking about. I had a fucking amazing childhood in the US, better than it would've been if my parents had raised me in Mexico or anywhere else. I had family and neighbors who would send cookies over during christmas and easter, people who would say hello to you down the street, parks and a playgruond nearby with tons of kids to play with it was effin' awesome!
And we were pretty poor because my mom pretty much raised us on her own and it was still great.

actually i believe you but don't forget it wasn't bush who was leading the country during your time.

bush has done nothing in his own country, just getting worse. katrina was a very good example. blair is not even better than him.

two idiots who must get out of power as soon as possible.

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 10:16 PM
Does anyone know the rates of children living in poverty for these industrialized countries?

I am from the US and love my country- but I do know that the rising rate of homeless children, children growing up in severe urban poverty, as well as poverty in other areas. etc. is alarming. I have friends who are social workers in Chicago, Austin, Atlanta and Brownsville (for those not from the US- that is a bordertown between the US and Mexico)- and even though all are very different areas with very different types of poverty- there is an increasing percentage of children growing up in under the poverty line.

One of the saddest things to me is that in a lot of US school districts- particularly in the urban areas- the school systems can be awful for some kids that go to public schools. I know that the Chicago ISD has its problems. With such bad systems in certain areas- it can be really hard to break the "cycle of poverty." It can be hard to lift oneself up by the bootstrap when the only materials around for the bootstrap are filled with problems.

Again- I am not trying to bash the US- I am just curious as to how things are in terms of children living in poverty in other industrialized nations.

(Sorry for using the word "poverty" so much....)

I am one of those children who grew up in one of those urban poor neighborhoods, I mean I wouldn't call my situation impoverished, but I have family that had a hell of a childhood, and she is in college with a baby now. America is one of the best places you can live, I really wish some people would try being female and living in some of these other countries americans will see how great they have it. It really is beyond me how priveledge people and yes you are privledge living in the U.S would fair living outside of the U.S. were here you have the right to say I hate our president. I think americans forget sometimes that they are a lotted so much that even other westerns countries are not, and just get so down on the drama that they see here. It's nothing compared. I complain everyday about the fact that I can't afford college in cleveland,ohio ranked I think it was number 1 in big city poverty, and number in rising college tuition. That's unfair to me, but I still now I have it a lot better here than some where else. The thing that gets me about americans is that they don't even realize how much freedom they have and some times no a lot of times I feel they have too much. America is fine, no worse off for raising children than any other westernized civilization. it's about how you raise your kids not where. ask my parents they can tell you.

Julio1974
02-14-2007, 10:43 PM
The US is such a nightmare.. I wonder what all those people who are desperate to get into the US are thinking... maybe that, unlike Germany, anyone who is born in the US is automatically American and not a second class foreign citizen?

sondraj06
02-14-2007, 10:47 PM
The US is such a nightmare.. I wonder what all those people who are desperate to get into the US are thinking... maybe that, unlike Germany, anyone who is born in the US is automatically American and not a second class foreign citizen?

U need to move to America. Because a lot of Americans view things quit differently. A lot of Americans are upset because these so called second class citizens get more and better opportunities than people who have were born and raised here. But that's a whole nother immigration issue that I won't get into.

Julio1974
02-14-2007, 11:09 PM
U need to move to America. Because a lot of Americans view things quit differently. A lot of Americans are upset because these so called second class citizens get more and better opportunities than people who have were born and raised here. But that's a whole nother immigration issue that I won't get into.

I'm not sure if was clear. I was trying to say that the US has many good things,such as giving the nationality to everyone who is born there. Unlike other countries where you are a second class citizens for generations.

RickDaStick
02-14-2007, 11:31 PM
Funny so do you, your boyfriend told me.:)

let me guess, you're american :eek:

sondraj06
02-15-2007, 12:21 AM
I'm not sure if was clear. I was trying to say that the US has many good things,such as giving the nationality to everyone who is born there. Unlike other countries where you are a second class citizens for generations.

No I miss understood.:wavey:

sondraj06
02-15-2007, 12:22 AM
let me guess, you're american :eek:


wow, you're deductive reasioning skill are amazing, r u a detective ;)

zicofirol
02-15-2007, 12:24 AM
I have no idea what you people are talking about. I had a fucking amazing childhood in the US, better than it would've been if my parents had raised me in Mexico or anywhere else. I had family and neighbors who would send cookies over during christmas and easter, people who would say hello to you down the street, parks and a playgruond nearby with tons of kids to play with it was effin' awesome!
And we were pretty poor because my mom pretty much raised us on her own and it was still great.

these "rankings" are skewed to fit a certain criteria, you have to remember these organizations including Unicef always have an agenda, part of this agenda is motivated by despise of America and capitalism which is always considered American, trust me you sit down to speak with any of the nut jobs that work at these places and you will know what I am talking about...
I have no idea what is included in these rankings but there is no way in hell being a child in Italy or greece or Hungary is better than in the US, no way...

Does anyone know the rates of children living in poverty for these industrialized countries?

I am from the US and love my country- but I do know that the rising rate of homeless children, children growing up in severe urban poverty, as well as poverty in other areas. etc. is alarming. I have friends who are social workers in Chicago, Austin, Atlanta and Brownsville (for those not from the US- that is a bordertown between the US and Mexico)- and even though all are very different areas with very different types of poverty- there is an increasing percentage of children growing up in under the poverty line.

One of the saddest things to me is that in a lot of US school districts- particularly in the urban areas- the school systems can be awful for some kids that go to public schools. I know that the Chicago ISD has its problems. With such bad systems in certain areas- it can be really hard to break the "cycle of poverty." It can be hard to lift oneself up by the bootstrap when the only materials around for the bootstrap are filled with problems.

Again- I am not trying to bash the US- I am just curious as to how things are in terms of children living in poverty in other industrialized nations.

I am against state indoctrination(err education) but one solution to the problem you state is a voucher system, where parents get to choose to send their kids to whatever district they want to, teachers and schools are opposed to this because if they lose children to better schools they lose funding, but this has worked well in Milwakee adn other areas where it has been tried, you have people in poorer districs sending their children to better schools, amazingly this idea has been vehemently opposed...

Remember also that part of the problem of children growing up in poverty is that when you have people living on welfare cranking out 4 to 5 kids, the prospects for those kids will not be good, for some reason and thsi happens everyone the most uneducated are always the ones having the most children... But poverty rate in the USA is another thing that is calculated very wrong, when you have people who own a house fully equipped with appliances, a car and a job that can still fit into this poverty line, then there is a big problem, the USA has teh worlds riches poor people without a doubt...

zicofirol
02-15-2007, 12:35 AM
actually i believe you but don't forget it wasn't bush who was leading the country during your time.

bush has done nothing in his own country, just getting worse. katrina was a very good example. blair is not even better than him.

two idiots who must get out of power as soon as possible.

haha, yeah in 7 years Bush has destroyed the economy, he created katrina??? and empovirshed the entire nation... you really give him to much credit over the economy, the fed has more control than Bush, way more...

when is the last time you came to America, where you hear before and after BUsh, the situation is not that different lifestyle wise for the whole country, the economy is still growing, jobs have been created after 9-11, stock market has rebounded etc.
How is germany btw, have they broken into single digit unemployment yet? has the economy continued to grow at its steady pace of under 2% a year, or did they break that elusive barrier? how is the population growth, still going strong at -.1%?

qczi
02-15-2007, 12:59 AM
we made it to the top21 industrialized nations :woohoo:

Johnny Groove
02-15-2007, 01:18 AM
Whenever i check any news websites of the US I never read anything about family politics. Just Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Wars, Blasts etc. :o Just negative things all the time.

And you wonder why everyone has a gun there and high crime. Not the best place for children someone might think.

actually i believe you but don't forget it wasn't bush who was leading the country during your time.

bush has done nothing in his own country, just getting worse. katrina was a very good example. blair is not even better than him.

two idiots who must get out of power as soon as possible.

:haha: expected posts by someone who lives in a Euro country being fed Anti-american propoganda 24/7

Bilbo
02-15-2007, 02:13 PM
How is germany btw, have they broken into single digit unemployment yet? has the economy continued to grow at its steady pace of under 2% a year, or did they break that elusive barrier? how is the population growth, still going strong at -.1%?

Germany's export is still the highest in the world. Not bad for a country with 80 million people and a size 20 times smaller than the US.

How's our economy? It's expected to be around 3% this year and the unemployment rate to decrease by 0.5-1.0 million.

How's your economy? Must be horrible to know China is outgunning the US in about 20-30 years :haha:

Julio1974
02-15-2007, 02:36 PM
Germany's export is still the highest in the world. Not bad for a country with 80 million people and a size 20 times smaller than the US.

How's our economy? It's expected to be around 3% this year and the unemployment rate to decrease by 0.5-1.0 million.

How's your economy? Must be horrible to know China is outgunning the US in about 20-30 years :haha:

The notion that China is surpassing the US reminds me of those who, during the 60's and 70's argued the URSS was developping much faster than the US
:haha:

Bilbo
02-15-2007, 02:52 PM
The notion that China is surpassing the US reminds me of those who, during the 60's and 70's argued the URSS was developping much faster than the US
:haha:

I don't know but Russia has not the land to be stronger than the US, China, India, Germany etc.. Most parts of Russia are too cold to use it for economies.

With China there's no doubt. They have the biggest potential of all countries especially with their high population and great lands for economy.

Castafiore
02-15-2007, 03:29 PM
Has anybody in here actually read the report before concluding that it's just UNICEF having an agenda?
I mean, it could be since I don't know the people who run UNICEF well enough but perhaps it's useful to read the full report before coming to any conclusions.

http://www.unicef.org/media/files/ChildPovertyReport.pdf

Some of the questions asked to kids, is whether kids have fewer than 10 books at home. Those results are startling as well.

Naranoc
02-15-2007, 03:30 PM
:bigcry:

I'm leaving.

mtw
02-15-2007, 03:32 PM
1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12 = Canada
12 = Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. U.S.
21 UK


Full story at http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/02/14/children.survey.reut/index.html

Anyone surprised with the U.S. and UK ranking last? Me not.

I am not suprised too.

mtw
02-15-2007, 03:49 PM
The US is such a nightmare.. I wonder what all those people who are desperate to get into the US are thinking... maybe that, unlike Germany, anyone who is born in the US is automatically American and not a second class foreign citizen?

I don't understand it too. They don't think. US are very specific country and rather not to Europeans. I knew two people, who was academical professors of mathematic in Poland and they decided to emigrate to this country, because of financial problems ( they were not very poor ). They had good job, but they were not very fascinated. But people will make all for money.
Besides what kind of future have children of emigrants in US. They live very oft in poverty too, as parents. People hav better chances in Europe ( of course people, which have education ).
Emigration is rather sad and hard. People make it for money. Very far from home and friends, among new, strange people. This is really hard.
But what people can make, when own country can not ensure a future and essential needs of citizens.

tangerine_dream
02-15-2007, 04:05 PM
A "study" financed by UNICEF. That tells me all I need to know about it's conclusions.

Germany's export is still the highest in the world. Not bad for a country with 80 million people and a size 20 times smaller than the US. How's our economy? It's expected to be around 3% this year and the unemployment rate to decrease by 0.5-1.0 million.
Bilbo the clown at it again :lol:

http://www.economywatch.com/economies-in-top/biggest-exporters-of-world.html
Country Exports ($)
USA 1,065,740,000,000
Germany 633,052,000,000
Japan 528,751,000,000
UK 401,385,000,000
France 377,274,000,000
Canada 321,693,000,000
Italy 294,852,000,000
China 279,562,000,000
Netherlands 258,951,000,000
Hong Kong 244,044,000,000

Germany sounds like an awesome country. I wonder why so many are leaving then?

http://linkfilter.net/cgi-bin/lf.fpl?cmd=go;id=125813
GERMANY AGONIZES OVER A BRAIN DRAIN
February 6, 2007
By MARK LANDLER

ESCHBORN, Germany, Feb. 3 — Benedikt Thoma recalls the moment he began to think seriously about leaving Germany. It was in 2004, at a New Year’s Day reception in nearby Frankfurt, and the guest speaker, a prominent politician, was lamenting the fact that every year thousands of educated Germans turn their backs on their homeland.

“That struck me like a bolt of lightning,” said Mr. Thoma, 44, an engineer then running his family’s elevator company. “I asked myself, ‘Why should I stay here when the future is brighter someplace else?’ ”

In December, as his work with the company became an intolerable grind because of labor disputes, Mr. Thoma quit and made plans to move to Canada. In its wide-open spaces he hopes to find the future that he says is dwindling at home. As soon as he lands a job, Mr. Thoma, his wife, Petra, and their two teenage sons will join the ranks of Germany’s emigrants.

There has been a steady exodus over the years, but it has recently become Topic A in a land already saddled with one of the most rapidly aging and shrinking populations of any Western nation. With evidence that more professionals are leaving now than in past years, politicians and business executives warn about the loss of their country’s best and brightest.

Among the more popular programs on German television is “Goodbye Deutschland!: The Emigrants,” a 12-part series chronicling several families who have forsaken Germany for South Africa or southern Spain.

The trigger for this latest bout of angst was the release last fall of new government statistics showing that 144,800 Germans emigrated in 2005, up from 109,500 in 2001. At the same time, only 128,100 Germans returned, a decline of nearly 50,000 from the year before. That made it the first year in nearly four decades that more people left than came home.

Demographic experts also say the nature of the emigrants is changing. These are not just young unskilled workers like those who fled the economically blighted eastern part of Germany after the country was reunified in 1990 to work in restaurants in Austria or Switzerland.

They are doctors, engineers, architects and scientists — just the sort of highly educated professionals that Germany needs to compete with economic up-and-comers like China and India.

“It’s not a problem of numbers as much as brain drain,” said Reiner Klingholz, the director of the Berlin Institute for Population and Development. “What we desperately need in the near future are talented and qualified people to replace those who will retire in 15 to 20 years.”

Other experts contend, though, that such fears are overblown. Germany has long sent its scientists and engineers to work or study abroad, they say, with the number of returnees historically balancing out those who leave. The latest statistics merely reflect an acceleration of that trend, as German academia and industry adjust to an increasingly global economy.

“Whenever the subject of migration comes up, Germans get very nervous,” said Claudia Diehl, a sociologist at the University of Göttingen who has studied migration patterns. “First they were nervous about people coming; now they are worried about people leaving.”

The numbers, she said, may also overstate the incidence of brain drain, because they do not distinguish between native and naturalized Germans. For example, Turkish guest workers who adopt German citizenship and later go home are classified as German emigrants.

Germany is not the only European country losing people. Nicolas Sarkozy, the conservative presidential candidate in France, recently held a rally in London, home to 300,000 French citizens living in Britain, urging them to return and “make France a great nation.”

The number of French citizens living in Britain jumped 8.4 percent in 2005, according to government statistics. But the total number of French people living outside the country grew only 1.2 percent, or 15,300 people, roughly equivalent to Germany’s net loss of about 16,700 citizens.

Caveats aside, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that Germany has become less attractive for people in fields like medicine, academic research and engineering. Those who leave cite chronic unemployment, a rigid labor market, stifling bureaucracy, high taxes and the plodding economy — which, though better recently, still lags behind that of the United States.

As Dr. Friedrich Boettner, a German orthopedic surgeon at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York, puts it: “I make more money. I’ve got more opportunity. New York was the chance of my lifetime.”

German salaries, he said, are not competitive with those in the United States or Britain, and the hierarchical structure of some professions in Germany discourages ambitious young people from staying. The medical field, in which advancement is controlled by powerful chief doctors, has been hit particularly hard, with 2,300 doctors leaving in 2005 alone.

“In Germany, it is nearly impossible to make a medical career unless you go into a pipeline and wait for your time,” said Helmut Schwarz, vice president of the German Research Foundation. “You’ve got little time to pursue research, and you’re under the thumb of your director.”

In Mr. Thoma’s view, the root of the problem is deeper. Germany, he said, has a “blockage” in its society.

“Germans are so complacent,” he said, sitting at the dining table in his neat-as-a-pin home here. “They don’t want to change anything. Everything is discussed endlessly without ever reaching a solution.”

As an example he cites the stalemate between his family’s firm and its 89 employees. After the firm became unionized, he said, the two sides began bickering over wages and working conditions.

With much of his 80-hour workweeks eaten up by those disputes, Mr. Thoma said he had developed high blood pressure and other ailments. He told his brothers he was burned out and ready to leave.

With an engineering degree and a nest egg from his stake in the family firm, he should have no problem leaving. While the European Union’s expansion has given Germans more options, their two favorite destinations are outside it: Switzerland and the United States.

Surveying the map, Mr. Thoma settled on Canada, which his family had visited six years ago and loved. They were drawn to the natural beauty and the sense of possibility. They also viewed it as a compromise between the social model of Europe and the market orientation of the United States.

Mr. Thoma confessed to doubts about how many jobs Canada had for someone with his specialty. He has sent out his résumé and will go to Toronto this month to scout for work. “My problem is that I’m not a truck driver,” he said with a shrug. “Canada has a shortage of truck drivers.”

Despite the trauma of starting over, Mr. Thoma and his wife said they were sure their children would have a better future in Canada. When pressed, the couple could come up with only two things they would miss about home: German television and driving on the autobahn.

The government of Chancellor Angela Merkel is trying to improve Germany’s attractiveness with several initiatives, including a plan to create more competitive universities to lure back expatriate researchers.

But while the country’s economy regained traction in 2006, Mrs. Merkel has made little progress in loosening the labor market. A campaign to scale down health care spending was tied up by politics, resulting in a modification that critics say hardly deserves the name reform.

The health care debate drove 20,000 physicians into the streets last year to demonstrate for higher wages and better working conditions. Many are not waiting around to see if things improve.

Dr. Nina Lenhoff, 31, from Münster, moved to London for training in psychiatry because she thought it would be nice to live in another country. “But once I got here, I was just amazed,” she said.

Her salary is nearly double what she earned in Germany, and when she had a baby 18 months ago she was able to work part time — something she said would not have been possible in Germany.

The same is true for Dr. Boettner, 35, who studied orthopedics in Münster and got a taste of New York when he trained for a year in arthroplasty, or joint replacement, at the Hospital for Special Surgery.

Back home in 2001, Dr. Boettner found that Germany did not appreciate that specialty. He also dreaded the formality of the medical system, rooted in a society where people still address their superiors with formal titles like “Herr Professor Doktor.”

When the Hospital for Special Surgery offered Dr. Boettner his own practice last year — at a starting salary three times what he would be earning at home — it was not a tough call. Now ensconced on Manhattan’s Upper East Side with his wife and two daughters, he said he could not imagine going home. He knows other German expatriates who feel the same.

“If you ask me about doctors, lawyers or engineers who are in their 30s and have made it in Germany,” he said, “I don’t know of anyone.”

mtw
02-15-2007, 04:11 PM
A "study" financed by UNICEF. That tells me all I need to know about it's conclusions.


Bilbo the clown at it again :lol:

http://www.economywatch.com/economies-in-top/biggest-exporters-of-world.html
Country Exports ($)
USA 1,065,740,000,000
Germany 633,052,000,000
Japan 528,751,000,000
UK 401,385,000,000
France 377,274,000,000
Canada 321,693,000,000
Italy 294,852,000,000
China 279,562,000,000
Netherlands 258,951,000,000
Hong Kong 244,044,000,000

Germany sounds like an awesome country. I wonder why so many are leaving then?

http://linkfilter.net/cgi-bin/lf.fpl?cmd=go;id=125813

Germany is very good, strong, right country and the most important: peaceful.

Bilbo
02-15-2007, 04:15 PM
tangerine_dream finally is coming out of the hole

we like your old stats of 2000 :haha:

since 2003 Germany is on top of that list

here are the stats of 2005 (in german): http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID5219248_REF1,00.html

in 2005 it was:

1. germany
2. usa
3. china


10 years later it will look like that:

1. china
2. germany
3. usa

Julio1974
02-15-2007, 04:22 PM
I don't understand it too. They don't think. US are very specific country and rather not to Europeans. I knew two people, who was academical professors of mathematic in Poland and they decided to emigrate to this country, because of financial problems ( they were not very poor ). They had good job, but they were not very fascinated. But people will make all for money.
Besides what kind of future have children of emigrants in US. They live very oft in poverty too, as parents. People hav better chances in Europe ( of course people, which have education ).
Emigration is rather sad and hard. People make it for money. Very far from home and friends, among new, strange people. This is really hard.
But what people can make, when own country can not ensure a future and essential needs of citizens.


People have better chances in Europe? Where? In Germany? I have Turkish friends (third generation in Germany) and still don't have a German passport.Or maybe in the "banlieu" of Paris where the police does not dare to enter? or in the "islamic" Amsterdam?

Julio1974
02-15-2007, 04:26 PM
Germany is very good, strong, right country and the most important: peaceful.

They should remember they are a great country thanks to the US which helped them recovery after 1945 (heard about Plan MArshall??). And West Germany saved West Berlin thanks to the Americans too.

Just compare how the US helped West Germany with what the URSS did in the East and you'll see the difference.

But it's soo easy to blame the US for everything that happens in the world.

tangerine_dream
02-15-2007, 05:11 PM
Bilbo the clown who embraces the USA export known as Michael Jackson, citizens fleeing Germany to work and live in other countries because they can't make a good living at home doesn't count as exports. Exporting services is part of the package and Germany doesn't top it.

But it's soo easy to blame the US for everything that happens in the world.
The simpletons always will. It's better than having to deal with their own problems sitting in their own backyard.

Castafiore
02-15-2007, 05:12 PM
Oh FFS.
Stop dragging old issues into this and trying to hit back with stupid clichés to fight off other stupid clichés.

I can't speak of the US as a country to live in because I haven't even visited it yet but Germany is a good country to live in so stop the BS please.

Don't start another Euro vs USA discussion before you read the damn report and it's very obvious to me that many of you are complaining about it without reading it properly

Jadranka
02-15-2007, 05:46 PM
18. Austria

lol

zicofirol
02-15-2007, 05:52 PM
Germany's export is still the highest in the world. Not bad for a country with 80 million people and a size 20 times smaller than the US.

How's our economy? It's expected to be around 3% this year and the unemployment rate to decrease by 0.5-1.0 million.

How's your economy? Must be horrible to know China is outgunning the US in about 20-30 years :haha:

mexico exports more than Spain, Switzerland , sweden etc. what country is better off?
Exports dont say anything, the USA is still the leading importer, which says much more because it is about purchasing power, at the same time the USA economy has shifted more heavily to the service sector than manufacturing.

Second, Germany sstill has double digit unemployment of 10+%, the US: 4.6%

Third no way in hell germany will grown by 3%, they got to 2% this year that was a miracle already by Eu standards...

and china economy my be bigger in size but in wealth of its individuals it is stil lagging far behind, Mexico and Brazil have larger economies than many industrialized European nations, and what nations are better off, you are very simple minded in your approach to economic wealth, you seem to not understand the concept...

How is german sentiment towards turkish immigrants?

ps. you should be thanking america or else your country would of been run over by the russians in no time, and it would of been a complete piece of shit like the rest of europe was under the iron curtain, and may we forget other acts such as the berlin airlift etc. or that america had to defend all of europe during the coldwar with military presence, Can you imagine how pathetic germany would of been today?
Besides what kind of future have children of emigrants in US. They live very oft in poverty too, as parents. People hav better chances in Europe ( of course people, which have education ).
Emigration is rather sad and hard. People make it for money. Very far from home and friends, among new, strange people. This is really hard.
But what people can make, when own country can not ensure a future and essential needs of citizens.
they live very often in poverty? actually immigrants live much better than they would in their country, their kids also, and go cheack the list of billionaries and millionares who are first generation americans... that statement you say is stupid. and btw, why do you hate america so much, most of your statements are so retarded and fueled by hate, your more pathetic than bilbo...

Oh and about 80% of millionaires in America are first-generation rich, how many of those do you think are immigrants...

Germany is very good, strong, right country and the most important: peaceful. that someone from poland says Germany is a right and peaceful country is astounding. did you ever have history class?

zicofirol
02-15-2007, 05:56 PM
Has anybody in here actually read the report before concluding that it's just UNICEF having an agenda?
I mean, it could be since I don't know the people who run UNICEF well enough but perhaps it's useful to read the full report before coming to any conclusions.

http://www.unicef.org/media/files/ChildPovertyReport.pdf

Some of the questions asked to kids, is whether kids have fewer than 10 books at home. Those results are startling as well.

I scrolled through the report, and boy is it a joke, about as subjective as a report can get, using very vague terms to describe what they use as "criteria" and then backing it up with little or no facts except some ridiculous polls... what a joke of a report, but expected from Unicef...

Lee
02-15-2007, 06:19 PM
I read the first 8 pages of the 52 pages report and it's a joke.

Honestly, I studied statistics and did researches like this before, I would be real ashame to report something like this. There are ways to make the results more representative of the real version but the researchers don't even put the effort. They just pick the ways so the resulting data fit into what they wanted.

I am not saying many children in US are not living in terrible conditions, etc but that report definitely not showing the real problems, thus, useless in improving the lives of those children.

Lee
02-15-2007, 06:28 PM
I continue to read it and :haha:

The 4 questions put to 11, 13 and 15 years old about Family Affluence

1. Does your family own a car, van or truck?
2. Do you have your own bedroom for yourself?
3. During the past 12 months, how many times did you travel away on holiday with your family?
4. How many computers does your family own?

Ask a child lives in the big cities as compare to small towns and you'll have totally different answers to the first 2 questions, that is, 50% of the anwsers that counted. But does that mean any difference in "family affluence"? The answer is a definitely "NO".

And the report acknowledge that too but :rolleyes:

And it seems half of the reports were used to explain there's a problem with this set of data or there are areas that are not covered by the report but they should be.

Lee
02-15-2007, 06:30 PM
I give up after 10 pages. :p

Castafiore
02-15-2007, 06:50 PM
There are 3 categories of lies:
1. Lies
2. Big Lies
3. Statistics.

Right.

How can you assess this report properly if you've just read the first 8 pages or so when the sources, the notes and the caution with which to read the report and to interprete the data is to be found in the back of the report?

However, I do agree that this study has a high degree of subjectivity and I have my doubts on some issues but I would not throw away everything as random.
For example, subjective happiness. I know The Netherlands and Belgium rather well and the difference in those results are startling. However, Belgians are natural born moaners IMO while people from The Netherlands tend to be more proud of the things they've got. I mean, Belgians are always complaining how everything sucks while Dutch people always seem to be saying in what a wonderful country they live in. However, if you study our health systems, social security, welfare,...and you try to stick with facts, the difference is not that big so what's the use of "subjective happiness" anyway? What does it actually say about a country and what needs to be done? It is what it is: subjective.
On the other hand:
Health, they use things like birth rates, vaccination,... Those data are available already and just used to try and compare the situation in the 21 countries.
Education, they use the data from the PISA method of assessing how kids are performing at school. That program goes a bit further than mere polls.

However, I don't quite see why people need to drag the cold war, the Marshall plan, Germany's Nazi history into this just like people can't use their dislike of the US foreign policy (or what they know about it) to assess an entire nation either. Well, they can do that of course but it's pointless to me.
It should be obvious that reports like these are only indications and perhaps the start of a debate within each country on what can be improved?

zicofirol
02-15-2007, 07:19 PM
Health, they use things like birth rates, vaccination,... Those data are available already and just used to try and compare the situation in the 21 ountries.
Education, they use the data from the PISA method of assessing how kids are performing at school. That program goes a bit further than mere polls.

However, I don't quite see why people need to drag the cold war, the Marshall plan, Germany's Nazi history into this just like people can't use their dislike of the US foreign policy (or what they know about it) to assess an entire nation either. Well, they can do that of course but it's pointless to me.
It should be obvious that reports like these are only indications and perhaps the start of a debate within each country on what can be improved?
with health, I am sure American children are unhealthy, but that's because of all the junkfood they eat lol, not because they suffer of malnutrition...

school education in the US is atrocious, but not because they dont pay attention to it, the USA spends mroe per student than any other country in the world, yet because of lack of standards the education system is terrible.

as for using history, anti-americans are quick to invoke american history in military conflicts, so the same must be done for other nations. As for the marshall plan, it would be foolish to ignore that if it where not for that policy who knows what would of happened in Germany, same situation in South korea, it woudl be a dump today if it weren't for the Americans intervening in that war...

as for a debate starter, you cant have debate with trolls who hate america and will blame it for all the evil in the world, note that they are the first to begin the america bashing in any thread involving america, so how exactly can you debate with the blatantly unobjective stupidity that comes from many of the posters?

Lee
02-15-2007, 07:22 PM
There are 3 categories of lies:
1. Lies
2. Big Lies
3. Statistics.

Right.

How can you assess this report properly if you've just read the first 8 pages or so when the sources, the notes and the caution with which to read the report and to interprete the data is to be found in the back of the report?

However, I do agree that this study has a high degree of subjectivity and I have my doubts on some issues but I would not throw away everything as random.
For example, subjective happiness. I know The Netherlands and Belgium rather well and the difference in those results are startling. However, Belgians are natural born moaners IMO while people from The Netherlands tend to be more proud of the things they've got. I mean, Belgians are always complaining how everything sucks while Dutch people always seem to be saying in what a wonderful country they live in. However, if you study our health systems, social security, welfare,...and you try to stick with facts, the difference is not that big so what's the use of "subjective happiness" anyway? What does it actually say about a country and what needs to be done? It is what it is: subjective.
On the other hand:
Health, they use things like birth rates, vaccination,... Those data are available already and just used to try and compare the situation in the 21 countries.
Education, they use the data from the PISA method of assessing how kids are performing at school. That program goes a bit further than mere polls.

However, I don't quite see why people need to drag the cold war, the Marshall plan, Germany's Nazi history into this just like people can't use their dislike of the US foreign policy (or what they know about it) to assess an entire nation either. Well, they can do that of course but it's pointless to me.
It should be obvious that reports like these are only indications and perhaps the start of a debate within each country on what can be improved?


I agree with most of your points.

The one thing is: I usually need to take a bite or 2 of the food I eat before I can tell it's good or bad. :tape: I usually need to read a chapter or 2 of a book before I can tell the book is good or not.

Castafiore
02-15-2007, 07:32 PM
as for using history, anti-americans are quick to invoke american history in military conflicts, so the same must be done for other nations.
That's just playing the game of dumb and dumber.

Julio1974
02-15-2007, 08:06 PM
Oh FFS.
Stop dragging old issues into this and trying to hit back with stupid clichés to fight off other stupid clichés.

I can't speak of the US as a country to live in because I haven't even visited it yet but Germany is a good country to live in so stop the BS please.

Don't start another Euro vs USA discussion before you read the damn report and it's very obvious to me that many of you are complaining about it without reading it properly

What you meant by old issues is called history. Some Some Europeans seem to have forgotten their own history and it's necessary to remind them of it when they constantly depict the US as an evi empire willing to destroy all other countries.

As I said in another thread, European countries have a much worse record in terms of human rights than the US during the 20th century. However, some Europeans think they are the embodiment of morals and humanity in the world. You are not.

Concerning the report, I'm sorry but I can't bother to read something prepared by the Unicef.

Suzi
02-15-2007, 08:10 PM
I had a great childhood, but i wouldnt put it down to living in the UK though, its cos my parents have brought me up well and stuff, so it doesnt matter where i was brought up, the only thing that pissed me off growing up, is the shite that people use to say bout me, but now cos growing up now in the UK i do see some kids that have problems and stuff but thats my personal opinion

lau
02-15-2007, 08:51 PM
ok, I hope anyone feels offended by this, but I had a wonderful childhood too and I was raised in Argentina :lol: I don´t think particular cases count in this kind of discussions.


Concerning the report, I'm sorry but I can't bother to read something prepared by the Unicef.
No intention to sound like a smartass, but why not? I´m, honestly asking.

Finally, I´m not saying the report is right. :lol:

Julio1974
02-15-2007, 09:01 PM
ok, I hope anyone feels offended by this, but I had a wonderful childhood too and I was raised in Argentina :lol: I don´t think particular cases count in this kind of discussions.


No intention to sound like a smartass, but why not? I´m, honestly asking.

Finally, I´m not saying the report is right. :lol:

In my view, they tend to be extremely biased against the US.

I know the US is far from being a paradise, I lived there for 2 yrs. They have good and bad things, as every country.

What I don't buy is this notion of the bad, sad and poor Americans vs good, rich and happy Europeans.

Castafiore
02-15-2007, 09:09 PM
What I don't buy is this notion of the bad, sad and poor Americans vs good, rich and happy Europeans.
I honestly don't think that they're suggesting that.

For starters the title of the report: "an overview of child well-being in rich countries"

lau
02-15-2007, 10:29 PM
In my view, they tend to be extremely biased against the US.

I know the US is far from being a paradise, I lived there for 2 yrs. They have good and bad things, as every country.

What I don't buy is this notion of the bad, sad and poor Americans vs good, rich and happy Europeans.
Fair enough ;)
I never got that impression.
IMHO, UNICEF is actually "funcional" (in spanish; 'functional' in english?) to wealthy occidental (and some non-occidental too) countries.
Despite that, I find some of their researches and reports pretty interesting, specially the one about working children in Argentina,.... I think that was last year :scratch:
And I´m not reading this one because I´m not particularly interested and I won´t go trough all those pages, in english I guess, just to have a discussion in a message board (no offense intended) :lol:

Anyway, I asked because I´m curious about people´s opinion on UNICEF. :)

alelysafina
02-15-2007, 11:08 PM
Besides what kind of future have children of emigrants in US. They live very oft in poverty too, as parents. People hav better chances in Europe ( of course people, which have education ).
Emigration is rather sad and hard. People make it for money. Very far from home and friends, among new, strange people. This is really hard.
But what people can make, when own country can not ensure a future and essential needs of citizens.

A damn good future! By the end of this year my mom will have three children in university, THREE. I would like to see where else a single mother on minimum wage could attain such a feat.

She immigrated to the US because she saw opportunity for a better life for herself and her future children. She always comments to me how if she had stayed in Mexico or alternately gone back to raise us there, that we would probably of had no future, gotten married and that would be the end of it. She doesn't see what kind of existence she would have as a stay at home mom, what would she do? Take in extra work sewing shoes?

We would live in poverty, absolute poverty. And I don't know if you Europeans have ever actually seen slums like in Mexico or in other south american countries, where sometimes there is no running water, or light, or an actual road to speak of. I have and I know exactly what my mother saw, she saw in the US was opportunity, a chance to actually live, to move forward if not for her, her children, she saw a future.

zicofirol
02-15-2007, 11:22 PM
A damn good future! By the end of this year my mom will have three children in university, THREE. I would like to see where else a single mother on minimum wage could attain such a feat.

She immigrated to the US because she saw opportunity for a better life for herself and her future children. She always comments to me how if she had stayed in Mexico or alternately gone back to raise us there, that we would probably of had no future, gotten married and that would be the end of it. She doesn't see what kind of existence she would have as a stay at home mom, what would she do? Take in extra work sewing shoes?

We would live in poverty, absolute poverty. And I don't know if you Europeans have ever actually seen slums like in Mexico or in other south american countries, where sometimes there is no running water, or light, or an actual road to speak of. I have and I know exactly what my mother saw, she saw in the US was opportunity, a chance to actually live, to move forward if not for her, her children, she saw a future.

yeah, I personally know many people with successful immigrant stories, who had they stayed in Latin America couldnt even of dreamed to achieve what they did in the US, not that mtw has never even set foot in the US...

I also know some who came to the US and then went back just to lament that they didnt stay longer...

Regenbogen
02-16-2007, 02:03 AM
Just for the record, "poverty level" in the US isn't necessarily poverty. I mean, some people can have this "poverty level" income and put additions on their house, go on multiple vacations, and buy new cars in the same year and have zero debt within a couple of years.

I'd have to admit that the education system is pretty bad though :o

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 02:09 AM
Just for the record, "poverty level" in the US isn't necessarily poverty. I mean, some people can have this "poverty level" income and put additions on their house, go on multiple vacations, and buy new cars in the same year and have zero debt within a couple of years.

I'd have to admit that the education system is pretty bad though :o

Yeah even the poorest of the poor in america don't know the poverty of other countries, I wouldn't classify it as poverty though,poor, mostly working poor.

Lee
02-16-2007, 03:04 AM
I'd have to admit that the education system is pretty bad though :o

If you think the education system is bad, try Canada. :tape:

mer
02-16-2007, 09:52 AM
I don't know but Russia has not the land to be stronger than the US, China, India, Germany etc.. Most parts of Russia are too cold to use it for economies.
:bs: especially as it was about USSR
USSR had EVERYTHING, land, resources, people.. exept for the system to make it all work right. And even Russia has almost everything now to be stronger. But again system, history, mentality prevent it from happening.

Horatio Caine
02-16-2007, 10:28 AM
I hate the UK anyway :o

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 10:36 AM
Well better watch it before some clown accuses me of anti-American propaganda and supporting some communist ideology.

Don't need to be a genius to figure out that the largest income gap between the wealthiest and the poorest in the Western world (sorry for having to bold that) is the US.

Depending on who you speak with this, it is either a horrible thing or it doesn't matter that these people are drain on society, get rid of them anyway. Just depends on what individuals value more.

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 10:38 AM
But it's soo easy to blame the US for everything that happens in the world.

Actually nations should acknowledge their errors and misdeeds and then move forward from there and yes that includes all of them.

Black Adam
02-16-2007, 11:12 AM
Not surprised, seeing the number of teenagers who have guns and go on killing people (8 people gunned down by kids in a space of only 3 weeks) and the police keep on telling us Gun crime has gone down compared to recent years :rolleyes: Despite the number of guns they collect weekly, there is no place that's safe from being shot, especially south London :scared: Any kid can settle all his problems (being bullied, being dumped by a girlfriend, a guy he hates etc.) by just shooting him/her :mad: :o
And the law is a joke, you can kill someone and be out in 5 years :mad: They should enforce the Life penalty for every murder rather than seat and watch the system destroy our safety and true justice. London is slowly becoming like Detroit or New York where people are shot daily.

Black Adam
02-16-2007, 11:17 AM
Just for the record, "poverty level" in the US isn't necessarily poverty. I mean, some people can have this "poverty level" income and put additions on their house, go on multiple vacations, and buy new cars in the same year and have zero debt within a couple of years.

I'd have to admit that the education system is pretty bad though :o
The thing about the USA, is the wealth is fairly distributed. I mean 5% of the population owning 95% of the coutry's wealth :help:

I agree, the UK education system isn't that great. When I was in France my Bac would have been twice as harder than my current A-Levels; which shows why French education is well recognised all over the world and ours is only recognised as average.

mtw
02-16-2007, 12:39 PM
with health, I am sure American children are unhealthy, but that's because of all the junkfood they eat lol, not because they suffer of malnutrition...



This is hidden malnutriation. Unproperty nutriation.

mtw
02-16-2007, 12:43 PM
They should remember they are a great country thanks to the US which helped them recovery after 1945 (heard about Plan MArshall??). And West Germany saved West Berlin thanks to the Americans too.

Just compare how the US helped West Germany with what the URSS did in the East and you'll see the difference.

But it's soo easy to blame the US for everything that happens in the world.

Yes and what about Poland, Tschechien and other and the second part of Germany?
Besides we had better education, than she had in the west and less social problems, than they had.

mtw
02-16-2007, 01:05 PM
People have better chances in Europe? Where? In Germany? I have Turkish friends (third generation in Germany) and still don't have a German passport.Or maybe in the "banlieu" of Paris where the police does not dare to enter? or in the "islamic" Amsterdam?

Muslims live and are very well in Germany. What for do they need German passports? He is not German. You know, German culture descends from another culture, than Turkish one. And every state has own rights by giving citizenschip.
Besides people sometimes go to given state to work there and not to receive citizenship for instance: Polen. There are better chances for us after connection to EU. I think, that it is very good and comfortable. Besides in a few year we will have the common European passport.
And dear Argentinian nation. I have very nice information for You. The lord of this world ( George Bush ) will go to Your state soon and for Brasil too. Maybe you will receive any super modern antimissile bases soon.

zicofirol
02-16-2007, 02:03 PM
Well better watch it before some clown accuses me of anti-American propaganda and supporting some communist ideology.

Don't need to be a genius to figure out that the largest income gap between the wealthiest and the poorest in the Western world (sorry for having to bold that) is the US.

Depending on who you speak with this, it is either a horrible thing or it doesn't matter that these people are drain on society, get rid of them anyway. Just depends on what individuals value more.

that is in large part thanks to the fact that the US has by far the most billionaires of any country, 375+ the majority of them 1st generation billionaires, the US is the only country in the western world where you have this, the rest of Europe most billionaires or extremely rich people have inherited money, the US is one of the few countries, that really allows for that type of economic mobility...

According to IRS tax data, 85.8 percent of tax filers in the bottom fifth in 1979 had moved on to a higher quintile, and often to the top quintile, by 1988... 66 percent to second and third quintiles and 15 percent to the top quintile. no other country allows this type of mobility http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4217

The thing about the USA, is the wealth is fairly distributed. I mean 5% of the population owning 95% of the coutry's wealth

Only five percent of families in the bottom income quintile (lowest 20 percent) in 1975 were still there in 1991.

Three-quarters of these families had moved into the three highest income quintiles. During the same period, 70 percent of those in the second lowest income quintile moved to a higher quintile, with 25 percent of them moving to the top income quintile. The Poverty Hype (http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4519)

so the income inequality, which exist (and not necessarily a bad thing) is not about the same 5% percent owning all the wealth or the same 12% poor always staying poor its different people...

zicofirol
02-16-2007, 02:13 PM
Not surprised, seeing the number of teenagers who have guns and go on killing people (8 people gunned down by kids in a space of only 3 weeks) and the police keep on telling us Gun crime has gone down compared to recent years :rolleyes: Despite the number of guns they collect weekly, there is no place that's safe from being shot, especially south London :scared: Any kid can settle all his problems (being bullied, being dumped by a girlfriend, a guy he hates etc.) by just shooting him/her :mad: :o
And the law is a joke, you can kill someone and be out in 5 years :mad: They should enforce the Life penalty for every murder rather than seat and watch the system destroy our safety and true justice. London is slowly becoming like Detroit or New York where people are shot daily.

aren't handguns illegal in England?

ha I found this just to check if they where:

The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales (http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=604)

and this article

On a June evening two years ago, Dan Rather made many stiff British upper lips quiver by reporting that England had a crime problem and that, apart from murder, "theirs is worse than ours." The response was swift and sharp. "Have a Nice Daydream," The Mirror, a London daily, shot back, reporting: "Britain reacted with fury and disbelief last night to claims by American newsmen that crime and violence are worse here than in the US." But sandwiched between the article's battery of official denials -- "totally misleading," "a huge over-simplification," "astounding and outrageous" -- and a compilation of lurid crimes from "the wild west culture on the other side of the Atlantic where every other car is carrying a gun," The Mirror conceded that the CBS anchorman was correct. Except for murder and ****, it admitted, "Britain has overtaken the US for all major crimes."

In the two years since Dan Rather was so roundly rebuked, violence in England has gotten markedly worse...
None of this was supposed to happen in the country whose stringent gun laws and 1997 ban on handguns have been hailed as the "gold standard" of gun control... The results -- the toughest firearm restrictions of any democracy -- are credited by the world's gun control advocates with producing a low rate of violent crime. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell reflected this conventional wisdom when, in a 1988 speech to the American Bar Association, he attributed England's low rates of violent crime to the fact that "private ownership of guns is strictly controlled."

In reality, the English approach has not re-duced violent crime. Instead it has left law-abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals who are confident that their victims have neither the means nor the legal right to resist them. Imitating this model would be a public safety disaster for the United States.

The illusion that the English government had protected its citizens by disarming them seemed credible because few realized the country had an astonishingly low level of armed crime even before guns were restricted. A government study for the years 1890-92, for example, found only three handgun homicides, an average of one a year, in a population of 30 million. In 1904 there were only four armed robberies in London, then the largest city in the world. A hundred years and many gun laws later, the BBC reported that England's firearms restrictions "seem to have had little impact in the criminal underworld."... http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

a nightmare for handgun banning advocates... (not that you are one)

Carlita
02-16-2007, 02:15 PM
the Netherlands at no.1..... hmmm okay :lol:

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 02:30 PM
Yes and what about Poland, Tschechien and other and the second part of Germany?
Besides we had better education, than she had in the west and less social problems, than they had.

Are you talking about america can you outline some of those social problems for me, seeing as how you live in utopia and all

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 02:32 PM
Well better watch it before some clown accuses me of anti-American propaganda and supporting some communist ideology.

Don't need to be a genius to figure out that the largest income gap between the wealthiest and the poorest in the Western world (sorry for having to bold that) is the US.

Depending on who you speak with this, it is either a horrible thing or it doesn't matter that these people are drain on society, get rid of them anyway. Just depends on what individuals value more.

That is true but I'm sure if you poll a great number of poor english citizens they'd be just as unhappy about the current income gap as any poor person.

mtw
02-16-2007, 02:35 PM
And I don't know if you Europeans have ever actually seen slums like in Mexico or in other south american countries, where sometimes there is no running water, or light, or an actual road to speak of. I have and I know exactly what my mother saw, she saw in the US was opportunity, a chance to actually live, to move forward if not for her, her children, she saw a future.

I think, that we have no many slums in Europe. But You see, that it is impossible for all persons from South America or Africa to emigrate. That's why, people from rich well-developed countries should grand a support for people from poor states ( of course material support, not military ). I know some organisation and internet pages involved in such help:for instance: www. kinder-hilfe.chillan.de, www.nphamigos.at , www.adopcja.salezjanie.pl, www.adopcja-serca.pl, www.plan-deutschland.de
I think, that people should give financial support to these people, because of common to all mankind reasons. It is not normal to look on the poverty of another people indifferently.

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 02:36 PM
that is in large part thanks to the fact that the US has by far the most billionaires of any country, 375+ the majority of them 1st generation billionaires, the US is the only country in the western world where you have this, the rest of Europe most billionaires or extremely rich people have inherited money, the US is one of the few countries, that really allows for that type of economic mobility...

At least you are not denying it.

So are we to measure a nations worth on the amount of billionaires that they have? Saying that most rich people in Europe inherit their wealth is as believable as saying that everything in the world that is fucked up was caused by the Americans and we know this is not the case.

The economic climate is different in some ways, but just cause most conservative parties within Europe would be deemed far left in the US doesn't mean that capitalism or social mobility is limited.

The bit I love is when Americans bitch about high taxation rates, well the Yanks have their way of doing things and that's their choice and vice versa. It just depends on what people consider important, the greater good or the individual.

so the income inequality, which exist (and not necessarily a bad thing) is not about the same 5% percent owning all the wealth or the same 12% poor always staying poor its different people...

In other words you are promoting the whole it isn't such a major thing. Well compared to some lesser developed nations then yes the US doesn't come off too badly in income distribution, but this is not the case against other Western democracies.

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 02:36 PM
That is true but I'm sure if you poll a great number of poor english citizens they'd be just as unhappy about the current income gap as any poor person.

The UK is 2nd.

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 02:37 PM
Muslims live and are very well in Germany. What for do they need German passports? He is not German. You know, German culture descends from another culture, than Turkish one. And every state has own rights by giving citizenschip.
Besides people sometimes go to given state to work there and not to receive citizenship for instance: Polen. There are better chances for us after connection to EU. I think, that it is very good and comfortable. Besides in a few year we will have the common European passport.
And dear Argentinian nation. I have very nice information for You. The lord of this world ( George Bush ) will go to Your state soon and for Brasil too. Maybe you will receive any super modern antimissile bases soon.

I really kills me how america has stuck our neck out for so many of these piss worthy countries and their citizens have the nerve to hate us. that's gratitude for you. yeah americans have the right to be annoyed with america, and the world has the right to be annoyed, our foreign policy does effect the world. it's the price you pay for being the world leader. but Some of the arguments people have against everyday life in america just sounds arrogant and uninformed

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 02:43 PM
The bit I love is when Americans bitch about high taxation rates, well the Yanks (Intelligent) have their way of doing things and that's their choice and vice versa. It just depends on what people consider important, the greater good or the individual.





And right now it happens to be the individual in america. Don't like it, think it should change. but people are greedy and even those who are poor secretly or loudly aspire to be in that top 10% so they don't see too much wrong in being selfish and holding all the wealth because they want to eventually be there, and when they get there not be made to feel guilty about it.

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 02:51 PM
And right now it happens to be the individual in america. Don't like it, think it should change. but people are greedy and even those who are poor secretly or loudly aspire to be in that top 10% so they don't see too much wrong in being selfish and holding all the wealth because they want to eventually be there, and when they get there not be made to feel guilty about it.

If I was living in the US. Wouldn't I have to do adjust to the way they do things over there? It could mean working longer hours and getting less holiday time than what I was used to.

Having a lower minimum wage as a way of getting people employed and keeping the umemployment rate down. To some that is great and it's easier to sack people, then there is the other side where trying to create a better working environment, so that people aren't in fear of the jobs, contributing greater productivity to the business, this all his limited by globalisation of course.

Humans are selfish by nature and it's always been about the individual. If it wasn't, then there wouldn't such a income disparity, as I said that's the path they have chosen to go down.

Castafiore
02-16-2007, 02:51 PM
I really kills me how america has stuck our neck out for so many of these piss worthy countries and their citizens have the nerve to hate us.
Piss worthy countries? Such as?


Many people are highly critical of George Bush. That's not the same thing as "they hate us"
The fact is that whenever George Bush makes a decision, it means a hell of a lot more to this world than when the polical leader of my country (Guy Verhofstadt) makes a decision.
Being critical of a foreign policy of a country does not have to mean that they hate the entire country, though.
Besides, the US has been highly critical of quite a few countries, among which European countries, as well.
I don't have a problem with that because I know all too well that things aren't exactly smooth and perfect over here. Europe needs to take more iniative for example.


This particular study was done in rich countries. I think that we can all agree that you can live very well and you get enough opportunities in the US or Germany but hey, neither of those nations are perfect.

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 02:59 PM
I think, that we have no many slums in Europe. But You see, that it is impossible for all persons from South America or Africa to emigrate. That's why, people from rich well-developed countries should grand a support for people from poor states ( of course material support, not military ). I know some organisation and internet pages involved in such help:for instance: www. kinder-hilfe.chillan.de, www.nphamigos.at (http://www.nphamigos.at) , www.adopcja.salezjanie.pl (http://www.adopcja.salezjanie.pl), www.adopcja-serca.pl (http://www.adopcja-serca.pl), www.plan-deutschland.de (http://www.plan-deutschland.de)
I think, that people should give financial support to these people, because of common to all mankind reasons. It is not normal to look on the poverty of another people indifferently.

The thing that people don't understand is that throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it. Like in africa, hum ever wonder why africa is still as poor and problem ridden as ever. I mean so many people care now, so many people give their time and energy to them, there are all kinds of films about africa and her problem- blood diamonds being the latests that has gotten nationwide attention. every celebrity to name is going there bringing attention there, Live 8, Bono and his ragtag fleet of Africa supporter. Adoptions left and right, and still so little progress. because people think to throw money at something is to fix it, you don't fix anything with money. The only way to help under developed countries is to create a way for them to function when you leave. create a way for their citizens to make money and live healthy on their own, has anyone hear ever hear the give a fish for a day story. You can not solely financially support every citizens in the world living in poverty, a few dollars go here for that problem, when that money is gone that problem still exits. one way to do this is if big business is going to move their companies overseas to actually pay their employees so they can make a living for themselves. In some cases the means are there, some one just has to make people do what they know is right. And in the case of africa, yeah all that red cross money is being sent there but it's not getting there. it doesn't help to send money to a country where that countries gov't is corrupt and keeps it from their citizens or still keeps them impoverished.

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 03:02 PM
Piss worthy countries? Such as?


Many people are highly critical of George Bush. That's not the same thing as "they hate us"
The fact is that whenever George Bush makes a decision, it means a hell of a lot more to this world than when the polical leader of my country (Guy Verhofstadt) makes a decision.
Being critical of a foreign policy of a country does not have to mean that they hate the entire country, though.
Besides, the US has been highly critical of quite a few countries, among which European countries, as well?
I don't have a problem with that because I know all too well that things aren't exactly smooth and perfect over here. Europe needs to take more iniative for example.

Any country that feels the need to bash american way of life every chance they get. Like I said americans can be critical of american way of life because guess what we live it, everybody else can be critical of american foriegn policy and our politics fine, it effects them. It's the price you pay for being a world leader. But dont confuse the two.

mtw
02-16-2007, 03:04 PM
Are you talking about america can you outline some of those social problems for me, seeing as how you live in utopia and all

Utopia and the most impressive propaganda exist actually in your country. But it seems, that all will begin to collapse little by little.
I can outline these little problems of your country to you:drug addiction, alcoholism, criminality, prostitution, corruption , pollution of environment, wish of power and will of control above all world and natural resources of other countries. Actually you are the main country in the world, which is agressor. Don't you really realise of that? Maybe it depends on bad politicians. Maybe they want to fill the leer place after USSR? I don't know, but it repeats continuosly in your contemporary history.
And how did we live during communistic time in Poland? I remember the time, when all began to fall down. I am not very old. The education was free, studies were free. Every person had work, weakly paid, but it was. There were no poor people, who begs. There were no freedom, but I am not sure, wheather real freedom exists now too. Now every has fear of US.

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 03:08 PM
Utopia and the most impressive propaganda exist actually in your country. But it seems, that all will begin to collapse little by little.
I can outline these little problems of your country to you:drug addiction, alcoholism, criminality, prostitution, corruption , pollution of environment, wish of power and will of control above all world and natural resources of other countries. Actually you are the main country in the world, which is agressor. Don't you really realise of that? Maybe it depends on bad politicians. Maybe they want to fill the leer place after USSR? I don't know, but it repeats continuosly in your contemporary history.
And how did we live during communistic time in Poland? I remember the time, when all began to fall down. I am not very old. The education was free, studies were free. Every person had work, weakly paid, but it was. There were no poor people, who begs. There were no freedom, but I am not sure, wheather real freedom exists now too. Now every has fear of US.

Do you live in a bubble, so no one in you country is addicted to drugs, is an alcoholic, your country has no jails because ha wait we don't have criminals, women don't sell their bodies, becuase everyone is rich and christian, oh as for corrupt gov't america leads the way right. During that period which has ended right, how's life for you now. well life for me here is still the same, no major bump in the road, 21 years and going strong.

zicofirol
02-16-2007, 03:09 PM
At least you are not denying it.

So are we to measure a nations worth on the amount of billionaires that they have? Saying that most rich people in Europe inherit their wealth is as believable as saying that everything in the world that is fucked up was caused by the Americans and we know this is not the case.

The economic climate is different in some ways, but just cause most conservative parties within Europe would be deemed far left in the US doesn't mean that capitalism or social mobility is limited.

The bit I love is when Americans bitch about high taxation rates, well the Yanks have their way of doing things and that's their choice and vice versa. It just depends on what people consider important, the greater good or the individual.

In other words you are promoting the whole it isn't such a major thing. Well compared to some lesser developed nations then yes the US doesn't come off too badly in income distribution, but this is not the case against other Western democracies.

I used the billionaire example because economic mobility is an indication of a healthy economy, and the fact that 80% of rich people are new rich is a pretty good stat... I wasnt saying all wealthy Europeans inherit there wealth, but certainly much more than in America, the structure in most Euopean countries is set up to sort of stay where you are or get to average...

capitalism is not exactly limited in Europe, in fact the systems they have largely been based on capitalism and moved towards the left... but they still have that base, allwowing for free movement of products along borders, buseinesses etc. http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm
btw, those rankings are yearly so in a way its a bit deceiving they use to have the rankings every year fro 10 years of each country but for some reason they dont have it this year, like last year the USA was not ranked in the top 8...
The USA has some pretty high tax rates, and some taxes that have even been killed in Sweden, like the death tax etc.

The gap isnt a big deal because its not like you have a few making millions and most making $10,000 a year, the average income is $40,000+ , one of the highest in the world...

forgot to add, that a free economy is better for individuals and "the greater good", whatever that emans, because every different group considerds the greater good a different thing in the end society is made up of individuals... we all have seen the effects of an economy when the individual is suppressed for the sake of the so called greater good...

Castafiore
02-16-2007, 03:12 PM
Any country that feels the need to bash american way of life every chance they get.
So? Whenever I get to watch American tv, they love to mock France and the French culture. I've always wondered why they do that.
The US is not the only target of criticism and it still doesn't mean "they hate us".

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 03:16 PM
So? Whenever I get to watch American tv, they love to mock France and the French culture. I've always wondered why they do that.
The US is not the only target of criticism and it still doesn't mean "they hate us".

No that is funny, american mock themselve all the time. were not talking about humour.

mtw
02-16-2007, 03:20 PM
The thing that people don't understand is that throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it. Like in africa, hum ever wonder why africa is still as poor and problem ridden as ever. I mean so many people care now, so many people give their time and energy to them, there are all kinds of films about africa and her problem- blood diamonds being the latests that has gotten nationwide attention. every celebrity to name is going there bringing attention there, Live 8, Bono and his ragtag fleet of Africa supporter. Adoptions left and right, and still so little progress. because people think to throw money at something is to fix it, you don't fix anything with money. The only way to help under developed countries is to create a way for them to function when you leave. create a way for their citizens to make money and live healthy on their own, has anyone hear ever hear the give a fish for a day story. You can not solely financially support every citizens in the world living in poverty, a few dollars go here for that problem, when that money is gone that problem still exits. one way to do this is if big business is going to move their companies overseas to actually pay their employees so they can make a living for themselves. In some cases the means are there, some one just has to make people do what they know is right. And in the case of africa, yeah all that red cross money is being sent there but it's not getting there. it doesn't help to send money to a country where that countries gov't is corrupt and keeps it from their citizens or still keeps them impoverished.

If you have such attitude to this problem, then you can give nothing. I will give my money, because it is the only way to help to this people ( of my side ) . Maybe some day every of us will answer, what was done for other persons in life. But it descends from christian culture. And you have nothing common with it. I cannot to explain it.
And these money are giving to concrete organisations, which are taking care of that. For instance they lead orphanage for children or buy many things, which are necessary for instance food, clothes or develop many initiatives ( for example access to running water, schools for children, elementary books, salary for teachers)

zicofirol
02-16-2007, 03:21 PM
Utopia and the most impressive propaganda exist actually in your country. But it seems, that all will begin to collapse little by little.
I can outline these little problems of your country to you:drug addiction, alcoholism, criminality, prostitution, corruption , pollution of environment, wish of power and will of control above all world and natural resources of other countries. Actually you are the main country in the world, which is agressor. Don't you really realise of that? Maybe it depends on bad politicians. Maybe they want to fill the leer place after USSR? I don't know, but it repeats continuosly in your contemporary history.
And how did we live during communistic time in Poland? I remember the time, when all began to fall down. I am not very old. The education was free, studies were free. Every person had work, weakly paid, but it was. There were no poor people, who begs. There were no freedom, but I am not sure, wheather real freedom exists now too. Now every has fear of US.

haha, you sound more ignorant than Borat!
druga ddiction and alcoholism have stayed about the same rates for years, that is why drug prohibition and alcoholism prohibiton does not work, pollution of enviroment? that has actually improved over the years, corruption, prostitution,lol, eastern Europe is known for prostitution...

in the end you finally reveal why you hate the US, you are just a reseful and delusional commie, if everything was so great during the communist regime, why did it fall, I cant imagine such a paradise coming to an end...

your insane or intellectually dishonest...

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 03:23 PM
If you have such attitude to this problem, then you can give nothing. I will give my money, because it is the only way to help to this people ( of my side ) . Maybe some day every of us will answer, what was done for other persons in life. But it descends from christian culture. And you have nothing common with it. I cannot to explain it.
And these money are giving to concrete organisations, which are taking care of that. For instance they lead orphanage for children or buy many things, which are necessary for instance food, clothes or develop many initiatives ( for example access to running water, schools for children, elementary books, salary for teachers)

Oh wow another christian making their christian rounds, suprising. you don't know how much americans give there was a report on how much individuals and nations actually give to foreign aid guess who came out on top of the money givers tree yeah it wasn't poland, it was america, the nation that is so selfish and greedy. and people who think like that is the reason these countries will forever have the problems they do. If all you can do is throw money at if fine but don't have illusions about how much it will benefit.

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 03:24 PM
haha, you sound more ignorant than Borat!
druga ddiction and alcoholism have stayed about the same rates for years, that is why drug prohibition and alcoholism prohibiton does not work, pollution of enviroment? that has actually improved over the years, corruption, prostitution,lol, eastern Europe is known for prostitution...

in the end you finally reveal why you hate the US, you are just a reseful and delusional commie, if everything was so great during the communist regime, why did it fall, I cant imagine such a paradise coming to an end...

your insane or intellectually dishonest...

I didn't want to say it but since you did....

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 03:28 PM
I used the billionaire example because economic mobility is an indication of a healthy economy, and the fact that 80% of rich people are new rich is a pretty good stat... I wasnt saying all wealthy Europeans inherit there wealth, but certainly much more than in America, the structure in most Euopean countries is set up to sort of stay where you are or get to average....

Even though many of the scientists are global in origin, the advancement of the technology sector is favourable in the US and when a new technological product becomes successful, then the people who are on before the bandwagon tend to benefit that and the US is the place for that.

There isn't the need to go for massive pursuit of wealth, yes there is plenty of material and consumerism within Europe, but not to the level of the US and the economic and society structures are clear enough and even within Europe it's far from homogenous, more state involvement in France and Germany than the UK.

I am only using this as a base within the nations that were studied within the context of the original article. There aren't any leftist movements within modern politics, it's just slogans and I said in the other thread, there is so much convergance within the structures, that the main difference is how they package their lies and what is more palatable.

The tax base is still higher with Norden nations than in the US on an overall context and there are more than enough reasons for this.

It's not like the US couldn't make an attempt to improve the inequalities, but whether they'd be interested is something else. They were 3rd highest, well when you have the largest number of people that rich, then someone has to be left behind.

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 03:29 PM
forgot to add, that a free economy is better for individuals and "the greater good", whatever that emans, because every different group considerds the greater good a different thing in the end society is made up of individuals... we all have seen the effects of an economy when the individual is suppressed for the sake of the so called greater good...

Yes, Norway is a communist country.

mtw
02-16-2007, 03:32 PM
Do you live in a bubble, so no one in you country is addicted to drugs, is an alcoholic, your country has no jails because ha wait we don't have criminals, women don't sell their bodies, becuase everyone is rich and christian, oh as for corrupt gov't america leads the way right. During that period which has ended right, how's life for you now. well life for me here is still the same, no major bump in the road, 21 years and going strong.

There are persons, which are drug addicted, but it was not very serious problem. Alcoholism is more serious, but the problems with various addiction are more serious in your country.
There are plans of banning prostitution in Poland soon.
We have criminals too, but we have not so large criminality and so many psychopats as your country. Besides detectability is quite good.
We have not many rich persons.
And corruption is quite big problem in your country.

mtw
02-16-2007, 03:34 PM
haha, you sound more ignorant than Borat!
druga ddiction and alcoholism have stayed about the same rates for years, that is why drug prohibition and alcoholism prohibiton does not work, pollution of enviroment? that has actually improved over the years, corruption, prostitution,lol, eastern Europe is known for prostitution...

in the end you finally reveal why you hate the US, you are just a reseful and delusional commie, if everything was so great during the communist regime, why did it fall, I cant imagine such a paradise coming to an end...

your insane or intellectually dishonest...


You are really complete moron.

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 03:36 PM
There are persons, which are drug addicted, but it was not very serious problem. Alcoholism is more serious, but the problems with various addiction are more serious in your country.
There are plans of banning prostitution in Poland soon.
We have criminals too, but we have not so large criminality and so many psychopats as your country. Besides detectability is quite good.
We have not many rich persons.
And corruption is quite big problem in your country.


O.K you do live in a bubble, this might surprise you, but I'm 21 and still alive, have never been *****, haven't been killed, Don't walk down the street bumping into one drug addict after another. if you keep up this non-sense illusions I might have to go look up some stats on your beloved country and make you look foolish. now stop it

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 03:38 PM
Do you live in a bubble, so no one in you country is addicted to drugs, is an alcoholic, your country has no jails because ha wait we don't have criminals, women don't sell their bodies, becuase everyone is rich and christian, oh as for corrupt gov't america leads the way right. During that period which has ended right, how's life for you now. well life for me here is still the same, no major bump in the road, 21 years and going strong.

And you never answered my question how's life treating you latley over there in poland. :wavey:

zicofirol
02-16-2007, 04:12 PM
Yes, Norway is a communist country.

but even Norway allows for movement of products business, they are a welfare state much like sweden, with high tax rates, but even they have free-market policies in key ares of their economy.

I was talking about, cuba, Ussr etc. you cant compare does countries with Sweden and Norway, even in economic policies... remember another important component is private ownership which exist in Sweden and Norway and was either nonexistant or incredibly restricted in USSr, Cuba etc. Sweden and Norway's economies fucntion on supply & demand, unlike the other 2... http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Norway

Even though many of the scientists are global in origin, the advancement of the technology sector is favourable in the US and when a new technological product becomes successful, then the people who are on before the bandwagon tend to benefit that and the US is the place for that.

I am only using this as a base within the nations that were studied within the context of the original article. There aren't any leftist movements within modern politics, it's just slogans and I said in the other thread, there is so much convergance within the structures, that the main difference is how they package their lies and what is more palatable.

The tax base is still higher with Norden nations than in the US on an overall context and there are more than enough reasons for this.

It's not like the US couldn't make an attempt to improve the inequalities, but whether they'd be interested is something else. They were 3rd highest, well when you have the largest number of people that rich, then someone has to be left behind.

in the article they actualy addressed that, how even in the early 1900s or late 1800's you had most rich people being 1st generation rich, again at that time the USA was also at the head of the technology sector, but you have to also realize there is a reason for that, the rules of play where and still set to allow for these rapid advancements in technology to occur...

I agree completely with 2nd paragraph...

the only way the USA can improve inequalities, is to literally impoverish the whole nation making everyon more equally poorer... even if you compare with Norway there are major differences, first Norway's population for years has been stagnant, second you have no where near the massive number of immigrants entering the country as you do in the US, two important factors to consider with the "success" of the welfare state, but even Norway will begin to decline because it is just impossible for them to maintain that welfare state without some changes...

There are persons, which are drug addicted, but it was not very serious problem. Alcoholism is more serious, but the problems with various addiction are more serious in your country.
There are plans of banning prostitution in Poland soon.
We have criminals too, but we have not so large criminality and so many psychopats as your country. Besides detectability is quite good.
We have not many rich persons.
And corruption is quite big problem in your country.
why are they baning prostitution, what a terrible attack on individual rights, many western european countries have legalized prostitution, unfortunately the US hasn't, I am sure the alcoholism rate in poland is close to the US alcoholism rate...
and you can be 100% that corruption is more widespread in Poland than in the US, it wouldnt even be fair to compare...

and how sad that you dont have many rich people in your country, I am sure you are happy about that... oh and GDp per income vs the USA, again not fair to compare...

Action Jackson
02-16-2007, 06:08 PM
but even Norway allows for movement of products business, they are a welfare state much like sweden, with high tax rates, but even they have free-market policies in key ares of their economy.

I am very aware of how the countries in Scandinavia work, living there and experiencing some good and some very stupid policies firsthand help. You insinuated that the common good can't be balanced with the individual pursuit of wealth and we know this is not true in its strictest form. As I said before the Tory parties would be considered communists in the US broadly support the principles, yet they have differing ways of doing it.

Did you not read what I said I was only talking about countries within the context of the study and not the former Eastern Bloc nations when under communism, that should have been clear.

The way you are speaking as if the US will be dominant power forever. It won't happen, nothing is forever. As for technology, make it in the US and get it designed by people outside, it works for them.

There are plenty of developed nations that have large amounts of immigrants coming into their borders legally and illegally and it's not just an American thing. Why do you think the EU exists, it isn't out of love for each other, it's purely financial.

Every nation has to adapt to challenges, nothing unusual there.

mtw
02-16-2007, 06:12 PM
And you never answered my question how's life treating you latley over there in poland. :wavey:


If you are just 21, that you don't know all wisdoms of the world. You don't know really many and you are quite naive.
My life changed in that way, that I could freely leave Poland and look for work in Europe. But it is merit of connection of Poland to EU and nothing more. I have quite good profession, which is always needed in Poland and in other countries too.
But situation of Poland is not good. There is more and more people, who are poor and live under social limits. Unemployment about 20 %. Now probably lesser, because many people went out to Europe ( Germany, Irland, England, Sweden ) and only one problem of the president is, how to ensure safety for US. Firstly US are not the neighbour of Poland, they will never be these neighbour, and safety of this country should hang and blow to Poland. This is not our interest and give nothing to us. Secondly people have it enough. Our president should wake up and begin to take care of safety and well-being of Polish citizens, as well as reconstruction of good relationship with neighbours. I can remind, that our main neighbours are Germany and Russia and it seems, that these countries do not belove US actually very much, especially Russia. And if help, then for poor people and not for rich. Wealthy can cope with own problems themselves. Especially, if they provoked the problems.

mtw
02-16-2007, 06:18 PM
why are they baning prostitution, what a terrible attack on individual rights,
and you can be 100% that corruption is more widespread in Poland than in the US, it wouldnt even be fair to compare...

and how sad that you dont have many rich people in your country, I am sure you are happy about that... oh and GDp per income vs the USA, again not fair to compare...

Are you kidding? What individual rights? It must be banned.
What about corruption? We take negative examples from our new big brother ( US ). We must adjust.

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 06:19 PM
If you are just 21, that you don't know all wisdoms of the world. You don't know really many and you are quite naive.
My life changed in that way, that I could freely leave Poland and look for work in Europe. But it is merit of connection of Poland to EU and nothing more. I have quite good profession, which is always needed in Poland and in other countries too.
But situation of Poland is not good. There is more and more people, who are poor and live under social limits. Unemployment about 20 %. Now probably lesser, because many people went out to Europe ( Germany, Irland, England, Sweden ) and only one problem of the president is, how to ensure safety for US. Firstly US are not the neighbour of Poland, they will never be these neighbour, and safety of this country should hang and blow to Poland. This is not our interest and give nothing to us. Secondly people have it enough. Our president should wake up and begin to take care of safety and well-being of Polish citizens, as well as reconstruction of good relationship with neighbours. I can remind, that our main neighbours are Germany and Russia and it seems, that these countries do not belove US actually very much, especially Russia. And if help, then for poor people and not for rich. Wealthy can cope with own problems themselves. Especially, if they provoked the problems.

No sweetie sadly you sound the naive one here. and you come off a little ignorant about how the world works, that's apparent in you post, life for the average U.S citizen is filled with complaits sure, but if given the option would they leave, no. American life is good especially compared to say living in poland, as you outlined above. and more importantly would the average american trade life in america for life in poland don't think so, but that's just my opinion

sondraj06
02-16-2007, 06:22 PM
Are you kidding? What individual rights? It must be banned.
What about corruption? We take negative examples from our new big brother ( US ). We must adjust.

If you want an outline of how not to run a country into the ground, poland would not be the country to follow. as for your negative examples, why don't you come here and live, and stop reading the propganda machine and form your own opinion.

zicofirol
02-16-2007, 10:52 PM
I am very aware of how the countries in Scandinavia work, living there and experiencing some good and some very stupid policies firsthand help. You insinuated that the common good can't be balanced with the individual pursuit of wealth and we know this is not true in its strictest form. As I said before the Tory parties would be considered communists in the US broadly support the principles, yet they have differing ways of doing it.

Did you not read what I said I was only talking about countries within the context of the study and not the former Eastern Bloc nations when under communism, that should have been clear.

The way you are speaking as if the US will be dominant power forever. It won't happen, nothing is forever. As for technology, make it in the US and get it designed by people outside, it works for them.

There are plenty of developed nations that have large amounts of immigrants coming into their borders legally and illegally and it's not just an American thing. Why do you think the EU exists, it isn't out of love for each other, it's purely financial.

Every nation has to adapt to challenges, nothing unusual there.

I am saying what is the common good? every group has a different definition of the common group, and any group is made up of individuals, if a country tries to oppress the individual like happened in the communist countries, you end up with a complete mess...

The US as dominant power wont last forever, it will kill itself from the inside, but that is decades if not centuries from happening... As for technology, the USA for the past 100-120 years was at the forefront of the different technological revolutions, and yes it attracts many bright foreign minds that do a lot of the technological advancements, but that is thanks to the US policies(especially before, but they are still living from that history) where it was the only country where you could come do your field of research in what you want it, without government interference, profit from it etc.


Are you kidding? What individual rights? It must be banned.
What about corruption? We take negative examples from our new big brother ( US ). We must adjust
so you think that two adults should not be able to have consensual sex, in exchange for money?, why do you think it should be banned?
how about alcohol or drugs?
I am sure Poland was just as corrupt if not more when they where a communist country so...

ChloeLove
02-17-2007, 12:02 AM
I'm not that surprised by these results. I lived in England, and then moved to Canada and the difference is huge. In England kids can get away with drinking, smoking, pot, drugs, and in Canada is it really looked down upon, and barely any kids do that type of stuff.

mtw
02-18-2007, 03:32 PM
No sweetie sadly you sound the naive one here. and you come off a little ignorant about how the world works, that's apparent in you post, life for the average U.S citizen is filled with complaits sure, but if given the option would they leave, no. American life is good especially compared to say living in poland, as you outlined above. and more importantly would the average american trade life in america for life in poland don't think so, but that's just my opinion

So you live, as you want and give another people live, as they want- saying directly f... o...

mtw
02-18-2007, 03:49 PM
so you think that two adults should not be able to have consensual sex, in exchange for money?, why do you think it should be banned?
how about alcohol or drugs?
I am sure Poland was just as corrupt if not more when they where a communist country so...

Yes of course. Prostitution, pornography and similar things push aside a woman, as object. In Poland pornography will be banned too. Public prostitution is not allowed in Poland. We have only escort services. But it is hidden prostitution. And it will be banned soon, then soft pornography - hard is banned. It means, that bulletins with nacked women and men will disappear soon. When somebody will have the need, then it can draw or model nacked woman from plasticine for own use.
Poland was not more currupted, when it was communistic country. Corruption
blossomed after the big turning point ( after 1989 ).

mtw
02-18-2007, 03:57 PM
If you want an outline of how not to run a country into the ground, poland would not be the country to follow. as for your negative examples, why don't you come here and live, and stop reading the propganda machine and form your own opinion.

Propaganda machine is actually only in us. and will bring up the band of rams. My own opinion and not only my opinion you know, you can get in Polish forums in internet ( but you don't know the languages, because your non-educated society knows only English-american , so called English with big errors ).

sondraj06
02-18-2007, 06:05 PM
Propaganda machine is actually only in us. and will bring up the band of rams. My own opinion and not only my opinion you know, you can get in Polish forums in internet ( but you don't know the languages, because your non-educated society knows only English-american , so called English with big errors ).


Right you just proved my point if everyone in poland shares the same screwed up opinion about america especially those who've never been here then guess what it's called propoganda, silly girl/boy. You don't sound so educated right now, lovely:wavey:

and by the way english only has big errors when you speak it. So don't be upset people would rather come to this country than your's. Bitter a little. so you admit big corruption in country now....like I said life for me still the same how about you....seeing as how life before the fall was so damn great why the hell did it fall again.

zicofirol
02-18-2007, 09:33 PM
Yes of course. Prostitution, pornography and similar things push aside a woman, as object. In Poland pornography will be banned too. Public prostitution is not allowed in Poland. We have only escort services. But it is hidden prostitution. And it will be banned soon, then soft pornography - hard is banned. It means, that bulletins with nacked women and men will disappear soon. When somebody will have the need, then it can draw or model nacked woman from plasticine for own use.
Poland was not more currupted, when it was communistic country. Corruption
blossomed after the big turning point ( after 1989 ).

push aside women? it certainly pushed jenna jameson aside...

so because that is your opinion or the opinion of x% of polish people it should be law? even if its an assault on individual rights?

how pathetic...

Neely
02-18-2007, 10:20 PM
Bilbo: I think you are exaggerating on Germany a bit too much. Speaking generally, children in Germany, during the last decade, found themselves more and more in bad situations. Very wrong politics of our government especially in this departement, they did not listen to the alarm bells ringing in the 90s, not enough incentives for families, they only scratch their money, children are seen more and more as a burden. Just watch a Scandinvian country in family politics and care (then again, they don't have some problems Germany has to deal with).

zicofirol: There are 1000s of measures for economic growth and unemployment rate and there is no standardized version. What is the exact reference population? After what time and under when circumstances is somebody considered as unemplyed in the US and in Germany? How are they counted, what do they have to do to be included in the stats? How are the numbers trimmed/weighted?

tangerine: very right that many people are leaving Germany. Especially well-educated and capable employees. Sucks if your value is not appreciated enough and if somebody else is looking for your abilities. And it happens too often that you basically have a great sallery, but have to pay more than half of it taxes (depending upon your tax class) or just don't get payed enough because of the system (e.g. health system, doctors, etc.).


What you meant by old issues is called history. Some Some Europeans seem to have forgotten their own history and it's necessary to remind them of it when they constantly depict the US as an evi empire willing to destroy all other countries.
That is right, you may not forget! But just because many European countries have a dark history, it's not me who is responsable for that or it's not me whose fault it was that it happened or I don't feel bad because this happened.
(And many people make the mistake that they think something in or of a country sucks and then it reads as if they hate its individuals.)

soraya
02-19-2007, 05:58 AM
Does anyone know the rates of children living in poverty for these industrialized countries?

I am from the US and love my country- but I do know that the rising rate of homeless children, children growing up in severe urban poverty, as well as poverty in other areas. etc. is alarming. I have friends who are social workers in Chicago, Austin, Atlanta and Brownsville (for those not from the US- that is a bordertown between the US and Mexico)- and even though all are very different areas with very different types of poverty- there is an increasing percentage of children growing up in under the poverty line.

One of the saddest things to me is that in a lot of US school districts- particularly in the urban areas- the school systems can be awful for some kids that go to public schools. I know that the Chicago ISD has its problems. With such bad systems in certain areas- it can be really hard to break the "cycle of poverty." It can be hard to lift oneself up by the bootstrap when the only materials around for the bootstrap are filled with problems.

Again- I am not trying to bash the US- I am just curious as to how things are in terms of children living in poverty in other industrialized nations.

(Sorry for using the word "poverty" so much....)

I am in the same field as your friends and I work with little people and their families’ everyday. I witness that children's poverty exists in the US and I live and work in one of the cities considered as one of the child-friendly cities in the US. I think that poverty is measured in relation to basic needs: food, shelter and health. Well, many children in the US do not have medical coverage, if you are lucky, legal in the US you may get shelter, read public housing built around WWII, and as a result children end up with all sorts of health problems, asthma and allergies are very common. Food, again depending on the family's status they may or may not get food coupons. For those unfortunate ones, they have to depend on some handouts from local food banks. When I visit some of my families in their homes you can see the hopelessness and the misery around and I wonder if this is America, the land of opportunity.

On the other hand, I have to be fair. There are people who take advantage of the system. They don't mind leaving in the housing though they can afford to live elsewhere. Inside their house you may find nice furniture, a 50 plus inch TV and so on, you may also find that one or both parents have the latest expensive car parked in front of their door.
The contrast confirms the faulty system, but that does not surely justify that kids in the US are lacking basic needs.
Now, some statistics:

14.9% (approximately 226,000) of Washington's children under 18 live below the federal poverty level

The national poverty level for a family of four is $19,350/year ($13 per person per day before taxes). A full-time minimum wage worker in Washington makes $15,870/year. The poverty level is set by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and is the same for a family in Seattle as it is for a family in Wapato.
- US Department of Health and Human Services, 2005
A baby is born into poverty in the United States every 35 seconds. In Washington, a child is born into poverty every 43 minutes.
- Children ’s Defense Fund, 2004
I have not read the UNICEF report, I heard it on the radio few days ago and I am not into “my country is better than yours." Number 1 and number 21 does not make any difference to me, fact is that children are suffering everywhere whether they live in a developed country or in an undeveloped one.

sondraj06
02-19-2007, 07:56 AM
I am in the same field as your friends and I work with little people and their families’ everyday. I witness that children's poverty exists in the US and I live and work in one of the cities considered as one of the child-friendly cities in the US. I think that poverty is measured in relation to basic needs: food, shelter and health. Well, many children in the US do not have medical coverage, if you are lucky, legal in the US you may get shelter, read public housing built around WWII, and as a result children end up with all sorts of health problems, asthma and allergies are very common. Food, again depending on the family's status they may or may not get food coupons. For those unfortunate ones, they have to depend on some handouts from local food banks. When I visit some of my families in their homes you can see the hopelessness and the misery around and I wonder if this is America, the land of opportunity.

On the other hand, I have to be fair. There are people who take advantage of the system. They don't mind leaving in the housing though they can afford to live elsewhere. Inside their house you may find nice furniture, a 50 plus inch TV and so on, you may also find that one or both parents have the latest expensive car parked in front of their door.
The contrast confirms the faulty system, but that does not surely justify that kids in the US are lacking basic needs.
Now, some statistics:

14.9% (approximately 226,000) of Washington's children under 18 live below the federal poverty level
The national poverty level for a family of four is $19,350/year ($13 per person per day before taxes). A full-time minimum wage worker in Washington makes $15,870/year. The poverty level is set by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and is the same for a family in Seattle as it is for a family in Wapato.
- US Department of Health and Human Services, 2005
A baby is born into poverty in the United States every 35 seconds. In Washington, a child is born into poverty every 43 minutes.
- Children ’s Defense Fund, 2004I have not read the UNICEF report, I heard it on the radio few days ago and I am not into “my country is better than yours." Number 1 and number 21 does not make any difference to me, fact is that children are suffering everywhere whether they live in a developed country or in an undeveloped one.

Anybody who lives in the U.S can see it's inconsistincies, but too suggest that they are any greater than any other country to me is absurd. Even with the poverty levels of the worst of the worst in america still wouldn't know the level of poverty that some other countries know. And the fact remains for me, the one great thing about america and I'm sure some other developed countries is the opportunity to succeed. Regardless of what you were born into, and I know a lot of americans don't want to acknowledge that. But I've seen it happen, and it does happen many time over. No body said life wasn't hard but I think america is one of the better countries to be born in if your life hasn't started out picture perfect. A lot of other countries don't have the chance to survive let alone succeed. Yeah there is a lot that can be done to improve where we live, but a lot of it has to do with home first. When parents decide to be parents again then children will be much better off no matter what environment they live in :)

almouchie
02-19-2007, 08:46 AM
definitely interesting
i would love to see those criteria in more depth

mtw
02-19-2007, 09:45 AM
Right you just proved my point if everyone in poland shares the same screwed up opinion about america especially those who've never been here then guess what it's called propoganda, silly girl/boy. You don't sound so educated right now, lovely:wavey:

and by the way english only has big errors when you speak it. So don't be upset people would rather come to this country than your's. Bitter a little. so you admit big corruption in country now....like I said life for me still the same how about you....seeing as how life before the fall was so damn great why the hell did it fall again.

How do you know, how I speak English? Maybe my English is better, as your one? Do you hear my pronunciacion? In your head? Are you schi? You know, that it is very good, that you american cretins do not speak foreign languages, because it sounds very funny in your performance. And maybe it is time for your president to f... o.. at last ( at least from Poland ).

Jogy
02-19-2007, 11:56 AM
That USA is ranked lowest of rich nations, it can make sense. Because how can USA be better treating children and giving them more secure structure if every 12 year old kid can easier buy a gun in the black market on the street of a big city than in the other countrys listed? Of course you have poorness and problems in many countrys, but I think the free gun market and so many youth gangs in American citys is big problem.
And how many kids (in % figures) are shot or killed by violence in USA compared to other children in other countrys? somebody knows? I not, but I think US should lead there too


I can not say what Netherlands are so good or UK so bad exactly. Not expected for me.


And maybe it is time for your president to f... o.. at last ( at least from Poland ).
this asshole Bush and government should stay away with his rocket system from Poland!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope our fucking idiots of politics do not allow that - they already worked together too much with USA politics in past :mad:
And of course he only wants it as a defensive rocket system :rolleyes: poor Bush, USA always gets attacked of Russians and European countries that he needs the rocket system there :o
he only wants the power and threaten Russia and others

mtw
02-19-2007, 12:41 PM
T



this asshole Bush and government should stay away with his rocket system from Poland!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope our fucking idiots of politics do not allow that - they already worked together too much with USA politics in past :mad:
And of course he only wants it as a defensive rocket system :rolleyes: poor Bush, USA always gets attacked of Russians and European countries that he needs the rocket system there :o
he only wants the power and threaten Russia and others

Yes, you are right. I think so.
We are laughing - stock in Europe, thanks to this alliance with USA. I've read, that Russia wants to draw economic consequences towards Poland, because they feel threat ( this antimissile system will aim at Russia - nobody normal will believe, that it will be aim at Iran or Korea. They are not threat for normal people ). They want to terminate transit of goods across Poland. It will be the huge loss. And pipeline will pass over our country with wide arch. And the consequence for Polnish government will be 1 % support of the society in the next election. And then, they can go for always to beloved US.

Julio1974
02-19-2007, 01:24 PM
That is right, you may not forget! But just because many European countries have a dark history, it's not me who is responsable for that or it's not me whose fault it was that it happened or I don't feel bad because this happened.
(And many people make the mistake that they think something in or of a country sucks and then it reads as if they hate its individuals.)

You are right. It's stupid to attack individuals because of what their country did in the past or even now.

However, some people in Europe (and I emphasize some) tend to demonize the US too quickly, as if their country blameless. And I'm not talking about mtw and her irrational hatred. I'm talking about good friends of mine (from Belgium, France and Sweden) who really despise the US, as if their countries were perfect.

Neely
02-19-2007, 05:28 PM
However, some people in Europe (and I emphasize some) tend to demonize the US too quickly, as if their country blameless. And I'm not talking about mtw and her irrational hatred. I'm talking about good friends of mine (from Belgium, France and Sweden) who really despise the US, as if their countries were perfect.
I agree! While I don't like so many political decisions of the US government regarding foreign affairs during the more recent the past, I always told such people who categorically are anti-American towards many things (brainless, without judging the case carefully enough) that without the USA, the European world order could look completely different today and some countries would not even exist, be in the position or state they are today. (And it's most stupid when people shit the blame on athletes or everyday people only because they don't agree with something the government did.)

sondraj06
02-19-2007, 05:29 PM
That USA is ranked lowest of rich nations, it can make sense. Because how can USA be better treating children and giving them more secure structure if every 12 year old kid can easier buy a gun in the black market on the street of a big city than in the other countrys listed? Of course you have poorness and problems in many countrys, but I think the free gun market and so many youth gangs in American citys is big problem.
And how many kids (in % figures) are shot or killed by violence in USA compared to other children in other countrys? somebody knows? I not, but I think US should lead there too


I can not say what Netherlands are so good or UK so bad exactly. Not expected for me.





I don't know if it's the lack of English grammar or limited vocab or what but this line here - bold- because facts don't matter as long as you think right. You think it should be, have you ever lived here, experienced some of those gangs you refer to or experienced any of the thing you think America should lead the world in.

zicofirol
02-19-2007, 05:50 PM
That USA is ranked lowest of rich nations, it can make sense. Because how can USA be better treating children and giving them more secure structure if every 12 year old kid can easier buy a gun in the black market on the street of a big city than in the other countrys listed? Of course you have poorness and problems in many countrys, but I think the free gun

Is it national tradition to pull "facts" out of your ass in Poland or are you and mtw just a bad representation of the country?

How many times have you been to the US, how many times have bought anything on the black market, how many times have you been to the ghetto?

Why do you assume that gun laws work to control crime when their is no evidence of that, in fact in Britain the exact opposite has happened, since handguns where banned crime rates has shot up... Brazil and Mexico have tougher gun laws and where do you think it is easier for a kid to get guns?

FYI, in the US the only people that buy guns in the black market are criminals, no retarded criminal will go to a gun shop and get one because they do a background check and the purchase of the gun can be traced, so they go to the black market. And even kids who get guns usually have an adult buy it for them either legally or illegaly... so don't just write stuff who have no clue about...

jole
02-19-2007, 08:57 PM
There are so many absurd and disillusioned posts in this thread I'm not even going to take the time to specifically address them, but all that I can say is that growing up in the USA has been great.

Nothing is perfect, but seriously, it's uh not that bad. :p

mtw
02-20-2007, 05:16 AM
You are right. It's stupid to attack individuals because of what their country did in the past or even now.

However, some people in Europe (and I emphasize some) tend to demonize the US too quickly, as if their country blameless. And I'm not talking about mtw and her irrational hatred.


Why irrational? It is really rational.
Was your country so rich under control of US? I don't think so. The great bancruptcy a few years ago. But one thing is certain. Representants of your nation are afraid of saying, what they really think till today. Anyway 30000 victims - fruit of your relationship with US, then within an inch of the war with Chile, if not the intervention of Polish Pope, then this war would take a heavy toll of lives.
Besides if you are so close friend of US, then you can ask of this antimissile system in your country. Bush mentioned something, that he does not like Chavez or somebody alike.

sondraj06
02-20-2007, 05:26 AM
You really think you nation is in the running for saint hood don't you. Can some one bring up the butt loads of negative facts about Poland please, I don't care enough anymore to do it.

mtw
02-20-2007, 05:40 AM
Is it national tradition to pull "facts" out of your ass in Poland or are you and mtw just a bad representation of the country?

How many times have you been to the US, how many times have bought anything on the black market, how many times have you been to the ghetto?



We are normal representants of our nation. Majority of people are opponents of proamerican( antipolish ) politicy of some representants of our governments. But these politicians have opponents among many members of government.
And I see, that you are typical representant of your nation too. IQ about 45-50. And most of all one fact savors your nationality, you don't know, how your national flag looks like.

mtw
02-20-2007, 05:43 AM
You really think you nation is in the running for saint hood don't you. Can some one bring up the butt loads of negative facts about Poland please, I don't care enough anymore to do it.

Most of all current alliance with your country. Besides we have not black spots in our history.

sondraj06
02-20-2007, 05:46 AM
Most of all current alliance with your country. Besides we have not black spots in our history.

So why did Poland fall again, delusional. some one help info now please. Mtw's crazy:cool:

zicofirol
02-20-2007, 06:12 AM
You really think you nation is in the running for saint hood don't you. Can some one bring up the butt loads of negative facts about Poland please, I don't care enough anymore to do it.

mtw, is delusional, as for facts of poland... just with with the active participation they had in the holocaust, more than eager to kill polish jews, that is enough blood on their hands to last at least a hundred years... during the commnist government the "work camps" for dissident poles, oppression of civil right etc. , later oppression of jews, the few that where left etc. they have enough of a tainted past...

I have come in contact with people almost as bad mtw, not quite that crazy/stupid/ignorant, but close enough to make you want to hit them in the face, but eventually you just learn that there are just a few nutjobs thinking like it out there so not too much to worry about, it is as bad as the muslims in the middle east who literally think a jewish conspiracy runs the world, did 9-11 etc. same sort of imbecile out of this world thinking, just subsitute jews and israel for americans and the US and its the same un-thinking,lol

I think its best to brake out the ol ignore button, lol...

mtw
02-20-2007, 07:22 AM
mtw, is delusional, as for facts of poland... just with with the active participation they had in the holocaust, more than eager to kill polish jews, that is enough blood on their hands to last at least a hundred years... during the commnist government the "work camps" for dissident poles, oppression of civil right etc. , later oppression of jews, the few that where left etc. they have enough of a tainted past...

I have come in contact with people almost as bad mtw, not quite that crazy/stupid/ignorant, but close enough to make you want to hit them in the face, but eventually you just learn that there are just a few nutjobs thinking like it out there so not too much to worry about, it is as bad as the muslims in the middle east who literally think a jewish conspiracy runs the world, did 9-11 etc. same sort of imbecile out of this world thinking, just subsitute jews and israel for americans and the US and its the same un-thinking,lol

I think its best to brake out the ol ignore button, lol...

You are real blockhead. Do you drug daily? How much?

mtw
02-20-2007, 07:28 AM
So why did Poland fall again, delusional. some one help info now please. Mtw's crazy:cool:

Fall again? We didn' fall and we will not fall, unless we will continue alliance with US.
From 1989 we had the tranquillity here till unnecessary alliance with your stupid country. It is needless for Poland.

sondraj06
02-20-2007, 08:08 AM
Fall again? We didn' fall and we will not fall, unless we will continue alliance with US.
From 1989 we had the tranquillity here till unnecessary alliance with your stupid country. It is needless for Poland.

well then if that's the case, and america is the big bad wolf you seem to think we are, then how smart is you country for following behind the leader, I suppose not too smart. And since you have such a problem with life in america, then move. Oh wait you don't live here. So why would anyone care what you or any of your half way to the luny bin propaganda influenced country men think. stay in poland, and a piece of advise if you have such a problem with america take it out with your gov't, because americans don't care. I bet you don't do half as much whining about poland's alliance with america to polish gov't but we have to endure it, does that seem fair.

mtw
02-20-2007, 11:49 AM
well then if that's the case, and america is the big bad wolf you seem to think we are, then how smart is you country for following behind the leader, I suppose not too smart. And since you have such a problem with life in america, then move. Oh wait you don't live here. So why would anyone care what you or any of your half way to the luny bin propaganda influenced country men think. stay in poland, and a piece of advise if you have such a problem with america take it out with your gov't, because americans don't care. I bet you don't do half as much whining about poland's alliance with america to polish gov't but we have to endure it, does that seem fair.


Poland does not win anything being alliance of your country. We have losses. And some of our citizens will come back from war in Iraq in black sacks or coffins, not mentioned about dosen of civilians, who die daily, because of your country - concrete because of your mad leader and his adherents. Besides propaganda functions only in your country and alike countries for instance Turkmenistan.
What about Polish government. About participation of Poland in this war decided very corrupted president a few years ago. Actually he gives lactures in your american universities ( he earns 28000 for one lecture ). He decided for this for, because of money. Besides he can give lectures only in us, because in Poland he has no authorisation. He did not finish the study. And so peple can give lactures only in us.

Julio1974
02-20-2007, 12:04 PM
Why irrational? It is really rational.
Was your country so rich under control of US? I don't think so. The great bancruptcy a few years ago. But one thing is certain. Representants of your nation are afraid of saying, what they really think till today. Anyway 30000 victims - fruit of your relationship with US, then within an inch of the war with Chile, if not the intervention of Polish Pope, then this war would take a heavy toll of lives.
Besides if you are so close friend of US, then you can ask of this antimissile system in your country. Bush mentioned something, that he does not like Chavez or somebody alike.

I will explain you something. At the time of Argentina military government, the US president was Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) who, together with other European countries (esp. France and Germany), put a lot pressure on Argentina to stop the human right violations committed by the Argentine government. If you had bothered to read a book from time to time, you would have learnt that Jimmy Carter had a very different foreign policy, compared to Nixon, especially when it came to human rights.

In fact, Argentina's support during that time came from Cuba (which helped Argentina by opposing any investigation of human right violation on Argentine soil) and from the URSS (which became one of the most important commercial partners of Argentina during those dark years).

mtw
02-20-2007, 01:15 PM
I will explain you something. At the time of Argentina military government, the US president was Jimmy Carter (1977-1981) who, together with other European countries (esp. France and Germany), put a lot pressure on Argentina to stop the human right violations committed by the Argentine government. If you had bothered to read a book from time to time, you would have learnt that Jimmy Carter had a very different foreign policy, compared to Nixon, especially when it came to human rights.

In fact, Argentina's support during that time came from Cuba (which helped Argentina by opposing any investigation of human right violation on Argentine soil) and from the URSS (which became one of the most important commercial partners of Argentina during those dark years).

But it is known, that CIA gave money for ,, fight against internal enemy in Chile and Argentina''. You suppose, that president of US did not know about it at all. And I' ve heard about 2000 guns from Cuba to support revolution in Chile and Argentina. And 30000 opponents of policy in your country was persecuted, tortured and murdered, because of these false and stupid accusations - 2000 guns for 60000-70000 insurgents? It is probably only in Argentina. And it was formal propaganda of your country. It is not true. It was only the pretekst to get rid of opponents of unfair politics. You know, dear Argentianian nation. Sometimes and even very frequently politicians say something another and then make another things. And now Bush speaks about any democracy. All normal people know, that it concerns about profits for military concerns and oil, which will never be for Americans ( because troops of UN will go to Iraq after this stupid, unnecessary war and turn them out)
Does USSR support liberalism in Argentina? What are you talking about? Don't you think, that it has no sense. Something is not very good with this propaganda of Argentina. They must think out any better explanations.
I try to explain, that US is the same state, as USSR. I don't say here, that USSR was wonderful. Better, as US, but very imperialistic too.
But I see, that you are very passionate supporter of US. Maybe these antimissile system would be useful in your country.
Do you live in Argentina or in us?

Julio1974
02-20-2007, 02:43 PM
But it is known, that CIA gave money for ,, fight against internal enemy in Chile and Argentina''. You suppose, that president of US did not know about it at all. And I' ve heard about 2000 guns from Cuba to support revolution in Chile and Argentina. And 30000 opponents of policy in your country was persecuted, tortured and murdered, because of these false and stupid accusations - 2000 guns for 60000-70000 insurgents? It is probably only in Argentina. And it was formal propaganda of your country. It is not true. It was only the pretekst to get rid of opponents of unfair politics. You know, dear Argentianian nation. Sometimes and even very frequently politicians say something another and then make another things. And now Bush speaks about any democracy. All normal people know, that it concerns about profits for military concerns and oil, which will never be for Americans ( because troops of UN will go to Iraq after this stupid, unnecessary war and turn them out)
Does USSR support liberalism in Argentina? What are you talking about? Don't you think, that it has no sense. Something is not very good with this propaganda of Argentina. They must think out any better explanations.
I try to explain, that US is the same state, as USSR. I don't say here, that USSR was wonderful. Better, as US, but very imperialistic too.
But I see, that you are very passionate supporter of US. Maybe these antimissile system would be useful in your country.
Do you live in Argentina or in us?


Your deep knowledge of Argentine history impresses me. You must have read many books about Argentina.

Concerning your statement that the URSS was better than the US, all I can say is :haha: :haha: :haha:

zicofirol
02-20-2007, 02:59 PM
Your deep knowledge of Argentine history impresses me. You must have read many books about Argentina.

Concerning your statement that the URSS was better than the US, all I can say is :haha: :haha: :haha:

lol, i dont think it will get the sarcasm... lol, did you expect it to think the US was better than the USSR? that would actually require some rational thought and objectivity...

Lee
02-20-2007, 04:12 PM
I see this thread is way way off topic and going nowhere, so http://img2.menstennisforums.com/753/close.gif