Ljubicic def Fat Dave 5-7 7-6 7-5 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Ljubicic def Fat Dave 5-7 7-6 7-5

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 03:40 PM
Ljubo you F'en Fighter you...down 5-7 4-5* breaks and rest was history

30aces

mir
11-14-2006, 03:42 PM
Wow you're quick, they haven't left the court yet......

Jadranka
11-14-2006, 03:42 PM
BRAVO MAJSTORE :worship: :worship:

TMJordan
11-14-2006, 03:43 PM
:banana:

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 03:43 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH :worship: :)

croat123
11-14-2006, 03:43 PM
tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooo!!!

what a win!! such a fight fight from ivan!!! and you can see how much it meant to him!!!! :woohoo::woohoo:

now take down the king :devil:

lotus eater
11-14-2006, 03:43 PM
vgg Ivan :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

ChinoRios4Ever
11-14-2006, 03:44 PM
nice one ljubo :yeah:

but what happens if ljubo lost to roger and nalbi beat arod, who advances to the SF????

mickymouse
11-14-2006, 03:44 PM
Ljubo played for pride. Pity for Fat Dave and us though. Otherwise his last match with Roddick would have been a real treat to see who could be the runner up in the group.

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 03:45 PM
ohh i almost forgot...Ivan owns fat dave in 2006.. 3-0 :yeah:
this match will help Ivan vs Roger. he was not at 100% during this whole match, but being on court will only help him get back to 100%

Monteque
11-14-2006, 03:46 PM
It's over for fat Dave.
For the next year, he should make his body slimmer. That's a compulsary.

Katastrophe
11-14-2006, 03:46 PM
I thought Nalby would be in a better position than this. Anyway, very nice win for Ljubo! :yeah:

Enjoy Incubus
11-14-2006, 03:46 PM
What would happen if Fat dave beats roddick in 2 and ljubo lost to federer in 3?

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 03:46 PM
nice one ljubo :yeah:

but what happens if ljubo lost to roger and nalbi beat arod, who advances to the SF????

depends on Sets W-L record.

shotgun
11-14-2006, 03:47 PM
This match was probably the battle for this group's 3rd place.

Blue Heart24
11-14-2006, 03:47 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bigclap: :bigclap: :bigclap: :aparty: :banana: :banana: :rocker: :rocker2: :rocker2: :music: :rocker2: :cool: :bowdown:

Yappa
11-14-2006, 03:48 PM
Nalbys next mission: hunt down that security guard which cost him the point at 5:5 in the TB (he threw the ball on the court and the rally had to be replayed). :devil:

JCF
11-14-2006, 03:48 PM
Fat Dave needs some serious psychological help. He is just wasting his amazing talent, can't believe he gets beaten by such a one dimensional player such as Ljubicic.

Galathea
11-14-2006, 03:48 PM
Excuse me.... Rest was history?
That was probably the best match of the tournament.

Both players fought until the end.
And fat(?) Dave.... honey, I would like to know how many players can still running and play like that after 3 hours.

Plus Ljubo's serve worked really good and saved him.

That and the net...
DON'T FORGET THE TWO BALLS THAT TOUCHED THE NET AND CHANGED DIRECTION IN MATCH POINTS IN FAVOR OF LJUBO.
THAT AND THE BALLBOY DROPPING A BALL WHEN NALBY WAS MATCH POINT TO AND MADE A WINNER...
LJUBO HAD A LOT OF LUCK TOO.

Congrast to both.

croat123
11-14-2006, 03:48 PM
nice one ljubo :yeah:

but what happens if ljubo lost to roger and nalbi beat arod, who advances to the SF????
it all comes down to sets
i need ljubo to take a set off federer (and keep the game total close)
and for nalbandian to win in 3 (but with a big game differential)

Denaon
11-14-2006, 03:49 PM
Nalbys next mission: hunt down that security guard which cost him the point at 5:5 in the TB (he threw the ball on the court and the rally had to be replayed). :devil:

I would hunt him for sure...:mad:

Metis
11-14-2006, 03:49 PM
Nalbandian :smash:

:lol:
Both matches today had a similar outcome with the frontrunner choking...
Even the commentators sounded a bit disappointed in the end of both matches.

Voo de Mar
11-14-2006, 03:50 PM
30aces

Ljubo served 10th time in his career 30 aces (or more)... :bowdown:
Ljubo and fatty Dave played in the past five times against each other and they've never played longer set than 6-4. And today three longer sets :lol:
Ljubicic's miracle - he was playing without a normal energy. Nalbi should won this match 7-5 6-4

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 03:51 PM
This match was probably the battle for this group's 3rd place.

not if Dave beats Roddick in 3 and Ivan lost in 3 to Roger. ivan moves on than.

Rogiman
11-14-2006, 03:53 PM
So Nalbandian is this year's stinker at the TMC, hardly a surprise since he's stunk for 5 months now.

Expect him to totally tank his last match with Roddick.

Galathea
11-14-2006, 03:53 PM
Fat Dave needs some serious psychological help. He is just wasting his amazing talent, can't believe he gets beaten by such a one dimensional player such as Ljubicic.

Okay.... WTF?! Ljubo is one of the most regular players of the ATP.
And serious psychological help? Did you see the match. No brain freeze, not going down.... He was against someone who made more than 30 aces... and still the score was 5-7; 7-6 (7) with a ballboy dropping a ball well Nalby made a winner on a match point for him, and two balls on the net in similar situation that stopped his winners; 7-5... What psychological problem do you see in THIS match?

So Nalbandian is this year's stinker at the TMC

I'll wait until Roddick's match. He lost in three sets all the matches. Plus, we'll have to see what happens with the other group.

mickymouse
11-14-2006, 03:54 PM
So Federer can actually manipulate the results of this group and decide who gets to the semi and potentially the finals.

Apemant
11-14-2006, 03:54 PM
Ljubo played for pride. Pity for Fat Dave and us though. Otherwise his last match with Roddick would have been a real treat to see who could be the runner up in the group.

On the contrary, my friend, on the contrary. Now it becomes really interesting. Believe it or not, all 4 players are still candidates for semis, with Roger in best position.

ChinoRios4Ever
11-14-2006, 03:54 PM
if david beat arod in 3 and ljubo lost in 3 vs roger, ljubo advances
if david beat arod in 2 and ljubo lost in 2 vs roger, nalbi advances
if arod beat nalbi in 2 and ljubo beat roger in 2, who advances?????

scarecrows
11-14-2006, 03:54 PM
the funny thing is that Bandy has still a chance if he beats Roddick in 2

which is the first match tomorrow

Denaon
11-14-2006, 03:54 PM
Okay.... WTF?! Ljubo is one of the most regular players of the ATP.
And serious psychological help? Did you see the match. No brain freeze, not going down.... He was against someone who made more than 30 aces... and still the score was 5-7; 7-6 (7) with a ballboy dropping a ball well Nalby made a winner on a match point for him, and two balls on the net in similar situation that stopped his winners; 7-5... What psychological problem do you see in THIS match?

I absolutely agree with that :yeah:

Deathless Mortal
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Ljubo is sick, and exhausted, and losing for 5:7, 4:5*, and won the second set, and than the third! I think that Ljubo showed who is he today, but I know, that still some people, when he loses again, will be saying that he is a choker, and "the worst #3 player ever", well, than you should just remember this match. He was playing for 3 hours, and come back from the lost match! Ljubo, CONGRATULATIONS!

ufokart
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Congrats to Ljubo :yeah:

David :smash:


I think that the only chance of Nalbandian getting the second place is if he beats Roddick ( i think that he has to do it in 2 :scared: )and Ljubicic loses in 2 against Federer.
Not very likely to happen :rolleyes: :lol:

Enjoy Incubus
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
What Nalby needs to move to SF?

Denaon
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
if david beat arod in 3 and ljubo lost in 3 vs roger, ljubo advances
if david beat arod in 2 and ljubo lost in 2 vs roger, nalbi advances
if arod beat nalbi in 2 and ljubo beat roger in 2, who advances?????

there's a thread in GM with the different possible scenarios ;)

nobama
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Ljubicic fired up 30 aces and barely won this match. :lol: If Fat Dave wasn't a mental case maybe he would've won this match. Roddick should have no problems with him on Thursday.

ljubicic_
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
where is ExcaliburII?:awww:

fanancic
11-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Congratulations Ivan!:) Great win!

Black Adam
11-14-2006, 03:56 PM
not if Dave beats Roddick in 3 and Ivan lost in 3 to Roger. ivan moves on than.

Can someone explain to me how this works. I mean if the scenario above happened it would be:
Andy : 4 sets won 5 lost
Ivan: 4 sets won 5 lost
Dave : 4 sets won 5 lost

How can you be certain Ivan is the one who passes through?

keqtqiadv
11-14-2006, 03:56 PM
:fiery:

scoobs
11-14-2006, 03:56 PM
Poor from David - he served for it at 75 53 and blew it - and gave a flagging Ljubicic enough belief that he could win the match to hang in and fight.

He has to beat Roddick in straight sets now really to hope to progress, and have Federer beat Ljubicic. It's a bit of a tall order now for Nalbandian to get close to the position of defending his title.

croat123
11-14-2006, 03:57 PM
ajmo :p

ChinoRios4Ever
11-14-2006, 03:57 PM
there's a thread in GM with the different possible scenarios ;)

i saw that, thanks anyway :yeah:

Bilbo
11-14-2006, 03:58 PM
Nalbandian is a complete tool. What a choker this guy is.

Enjoy Incubus
11-14-2006, 03:58 PM
what would happen if david beat arod in 3 and ljubo lost in 3 vs roger?

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 03:59 PM
Can someone explain to me how this works. I mean if the scenario above happened it would be:
Andy : 4 sets won 5 lost
Ivan: 4 sets won 5 lost
Dave : 4 sets won 5 lost

How can you be certain Ivan is the one who passes through?

not 100% certain but it comes down to games won and lost.

decrepitude
11-14-2006, 03:59 PM
the funny thing is that Bandy has still a chance if he beats Roddick in 2

which is the first match tomorrow

Davydenko v Blake

Yappa
11-14-2006, 04:00 PM
Okay.... WTF?! Ljubo is one of the most regular players of the ATP.
And serious psychological help? Did you see the match. No brain freeze, not going down.... He was against someone who made more than 30 aces... and still the score was 5-7; 7-6 (7) with a ballboy dropping a ball well Nalby made a winner on a match point for him, and two balls on the net in similar situation that stopped his winners; 7-5... What psychological problem do you see in THIS match?


mp? When was that? Or do you mean that he would have gotten a mp?

I only saw http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=4451781&postcount=17

Fergie
11-14-2006, 04:00 PM
Ivan!!! :banana:

Apemant
11-14-2006, 04:00 PM
Excuse me.... Rest was history?
That was probably the best match of the tournament.

Both players fought until the end.

I agree, both of them didn't want to yield; David certainly had advantage in rallies, winning most of them with his amazing sense of tactics, while Ivan had his serve to get him out of tough situations. Really high quality match, too bad one had to lose. They had some amazing exchanges, beautiful winners and some heartbreaking silly errors so typical of a match like this, where both want to win so badly.

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 04:01 PM
Ivan at 75% def Fat Dave :rolls:

CooCooCachoo
11-14-2006, 04:02 PM
:yeah: Ivan

Denaon
11-14-2006, 04:03 PM
Ivan at 75% def Fat Dave :rolls:

lol Jerry...give me a break....then David is at his 75 % too, he's been sick too...
Ivan with his 30 aces def David....without them...I'm not sure this could have ended the same way

shotgun
11-14-2006, 04:03 PM
I don't see Nalbandian defeating Roddick especially after playing two 3 set matches in the last few days - we all know what an awesome fitness he has. ;)

Denaon
11-14-2006, 04:04 PM
Ivan at 75% def Fat Dave :rolls:

Btw, you're still Jerry to me :lol:

scarecrows
11-14-2006, 04:04 PM
Davydenko v Blake

sorry, I ment the day after tomorrow

when this group will be decided

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 04:07 PM
Btw, you're still Jerry to me :lol:

:hug: :p

Galathea
11-14-2006, 04:12 PM
Okay, now you're starting to annoy me big time... Did anyone actually watched the game?
What mental problem did Nalbandian have today?
When he reverted the 0-3 and won the set? When he had the nerve and guts to save severals set points with winners, showing what is playing agressive with a logic, like he did, and what making stupid mistakes because you don't think, like Roddick today?
When the ballboy made that mistake on his winner on a match point? That was the final of the match in two for Nalbandian and he had to repeat the point. or When two times the net helped Ljubo on winners, one on a match-point, again?

So, to speak it's better to know what you're talking about, and not the score borad only. See what really happened, and how BOTH played and don't make asumptions. At the 4-5 Ljubo showed a level that I didn't see on him in a lot of time, and Nalby didn't went down. Both of them fought that game and the tie-break like real top ten players. More than what Nadal made against Blake, for example.

This wasn't probably a "visual" match, but speaking of strategy and how both they fought, was the best one of the tournament.

Ljubo is sick? Nalby is still injured. So what? Both of them showed better shape than others here.

ljubicic_
11-14-2006, 04:13 PM
Okay, now you're starting to annoy me big time... Did anyone actually watched the game?
What mental problem did Nalbandian have today?
When he reverted the 0-3 and won the set? When he had the nerve and guts to save severals set points with winners, showing what is playing agressive with a logic, like he did, and what making stupid mistakes because you don't think, like Roddick today?
When the ballboy made that mistake on his winner on a match point? That was the final of the match in two for Nalbandian and he had to repeat the point. or When two times the net helped Ljubo on winners, one on a match-point, again?

So, to speak it's better to know what you're talking about, and not the score borad only. See what really happened, and how BOTH played and don't make asumptions. At the 4-5 Ljubo showed a level that I didn't see on him in a lot of time, and Nalby didn't went down. Both of them fought that game and the tie-break like real top ten players. More than what Nadal made against Blake, for example.

This wasn't probably a "visual" match, but speaking of strategy and how both they fought, was the best one of the tournament.

Ljubo is sick? Nalby is still injured. So what? Both of them showed better shape than others here.


:worship:

Apemant
11-14-2006, 04:14 PM
lol Jerry...give me a break....then David is at his 75 % too, he's been sick too...
Ivan with his 30 aces def David....without them...I'm not sure this could have ended the same way

Don't take Jerry seriously, he just wants to rile up people & constantly in pursuit for that arseclown title. :) (no offense, Jerry, hehe)

Anyone who saw the match can testify David was clearly superior to Ivan once the ball is in play. Its the sheer number of aces and service winners that helped Ivan get through. Which doesn't mean he didn't hit some spectacular winners as well, of course.

decrepitude
11-14-2006, 04:15 PM
sorry, I ment the day after tomorrow

when this group will be decided

Ah. I did wonder..... in that case, sorry I don't know, I don't think it has been announced yet. Only tomorrow is on the Masters Cup website.

Deathless Mortal
11-14-2006, 04:15 PM
What's the first match at thursday?

ljubicic_
11-14-2006, 04:16 PM
Don't take Jerry seriously, he just wants to rile up people & constantly in pursuit for that arseclown title. :) (no offense, Jerry, hehe)

Anyone who saw the match can testify David was clearly superior to Ivan once the ball is in play. Its the sheer number of aces and service winners that helped Ivan get through. Which doesn't mean he didn't hit some spectacular winners as well, of course.


nonsense, in the begining Nalbandian was better in the rally but in the 3rth set Ljubo was also very strong in the rally!!! and Ljubo won very much points by rellys and not aces!

croat123
11-14-2006, 04:17 PM
i think it will be roddick vs. nalbandian...espn always seems to get its way

Horatio Caine
11-14-2006, 04:17 PM
I'm confused here...did the ballboy incident happen on Nalbandian's match point...or did it prevent Nalbandian from getting a match point? :confused:

Deathless Mortal
11-14-2006, 04:19 PM
I'm confused here...did the ballboy incident happen on Nalbandian's match point...or did it prevent Nalbandian from getting a match point? :confused:

If Nalby won that point, je'd have match point THAN! And it would be on Ivan's serve, so it doesn't mean much. :p

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 04:19 PM
Don't take Jerry seriously, he just wants to rile up people & constantly in pursuit for that arseclown title. :) (no offense, Jerry, hehe)

Anyone who saw the match can testify David was clearly superior to Ivan once the ball is in play. Its the sheer number of aces and service winners that helped Ivan get through. Which doesn't mean he didn't hit some spectacular winners as well, of course.

after the ball was in play Ivan was hitting with Dave most of the match..had quite few non-serve winners.

croat123
11-14-2006, 04:19 PM
it happened at 5-5 in the tb. nalbandian was pushing ivan behind the baseline and was probably going to win the point and get to mp.

gillian
11-14-2006, 04:19 PM
Interesting. I thought Nalbandian had it sewn up in the 2nd set.

gillian
11-14-2006, 04:19 PM
Interesting. I thought Nalbandian had it sewn up in the 2nd set.

croat123
11-14-2006, 04:20 PM
it happened at 5-5 in the tb. nalbandian was pushing ivan behind the baseline and was probably going to win the point and get to mp.

Denaon
11-14-2006, 04:20 PM
Don't take Jerry seriously, he just wants to rile up people & constantly in pursuit for that arseclown title. :) (no offense, Jerry, hehe)

Anyone who saw the match can testify David was clearly superior to Ivan once the ball is in play. Its the sheer number of aces and service winners that helped Ivan get through. Which doesn't mean he didn't hit some spectacular winners as well, of course.
lol I don't take him seriously...I know he can be such a pain in the ass sometimes :rolls:

ntorcida
11-14-2006, 04:41 PM
I went to training when Nalbandian had 7-5 3-1 and I tought Ljubo will retire from match.... Now, I got home, and.... Ljubo- :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: . With so much health problems, set and break down... and such fight back (i did not watch, now i am reading about that fight)- :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

sawan66278
11-14-2006, 04:46 PM
I am happy Fat Dave lost...now he can drop out of the top ten, and make room for someone who actually cares about becoming the best player they be....

enzogiovanni
11-14-2006, 04:47 PM
Ljubo you F'en Fighter you...down 5-7 4-5* breaks and rest was history

30aces

Probably Ivan's biggest career victory (comparable to defeating Roddick in Davis Cup)..
Biggest victory considering the circumstances and the result...

BRAVO IVANE!!!!

enzogiovanni
11-14-2006, 04:52 PM
Excuse me.... Rest was history?
That was probably the best match of the tournament.

Both players fought until the end.
And fat(?) Dave.... honey, I would like to know how many players can still running and play like that after 3 hours.

Plus Ljubo's serve worked really good and saved him.

That and the net...
DON'T FORGET THE TWO BALLS THAT TOUCHED THE NET AND CHANGED DIRECTION IN MATCH POINTS IN FAVOR OF LJUBO.
THAT AND THE BALLBOY DROPPING A BALL WHEN NALBY WAS MATCH POINT TO AND MADE A WINNER...
LJUBO HAD A LOT OF LUCK TOO.

Congrast to both.
2 small corrections:


it was the security guard (policeman?) who threw the ball back on to the court
Nalbandian was probably going to make a winner in that point, but guess what? We will never know what would have happened.

enzogiovanni
11-14-2006, 04:57 PM
not if Dave beats Roddick in 3 and Ivan lost in 3 to Roger. ivan moves on than.

are you sure?
Now we have: (matches and sets)

Roger 2-0 (4-2)
Roddick 1-1 (3-3)
Ljubo 1-1 (3-3)
Nalbandian 0-2 (2-4)

David beats Roddick in 3 and ljubo loses to roger in 3 we have:

Roddick 1-2 (4-5)
Ljubo 1-2 (4-5)
Nalbandian 1-2 (4-5)

What's the stand in games won?

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 05:02 PM
:haha:

Where's the great #3, technical and amazing champion?? :lol:

I think now finally people got a taste of reality.

Apemant
11-14-2006, 05:02 PM
nonsense, in the begining Nalbandian was better in the rally but in the 3rth set Ljubo was also very strong in the rally!!! and Ljubo won very much points by rellys and not aces!

I think I was fair... Ivan is not just serve like some people claim. He also has one of the world's best one-handed backhand. I only say that David was/is clearly better in rallies and sense for on-court tactics... I'm sure Ivan himself would agree. If I'm not mistaken, Ivan has huge respect for David's talent, said about him (more than once) something in lines of '.. when he plays like he can, even Federer is not a match for him' (to which he added 'luckily for me, he doesn't play like that very often' :devil: )


after the ball was in play Ivan was hitting with Dave most of the match..had quite few non-serve winners.

You wanted to say 'quite a LOT non-serve winners'? Otherwise why reply to me? :D

*Ljubica*
11-14-2006, 05:02 PM
I was at work so only saw from 2-2 in the 3rd set - but seemed to be an excellent match. Congrats to Ljubicic for coming back from a set and 3-5 down :worship:

jayjay
11-14-2006, 05:07 PM
Probably Ivan's biggest career victory (comparable to defeating Roddick in Davis Cup)..
Biggest victory considering the circumstances and the result...

BRAVO IVANE!!!!

Congratulations to Ljubicic on the biggest win of his career. Marvellous. Only a couple of days before he gets to go home too! :lol:

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 05:09 PM
I think I was fair... Ivan is not just serve like some people claim. He also has one of the world's best one-handed backhand. I only say that David was/is clearly better in rallies and sense for on-court tactics... I'm sure Ivan himself would agree. If I'm not mistaken, Ivan has huge respect for David's talent, said about him (more than once) something in lines of '.. when he plays like he can, even Federer is not a match for him' (to which he added 'luckily for me, he doesn't play like that very often' :devil: )




You wanted to say 'quite a LOT non-serve winners'? Otherwise why reply to me? :D

ivan had 31 non serve winners david had 23

totol ivan 61 david 30

Apemant
11-14-2006, 05:13 PM
:haha:

Where's the great #3, technical and amazing champion?? :lol:

I think now finally people got a taste of reality.

Did you actually see the match? David doesn't have the variety of shots like Federer, but his tactics are arguably the best in the field. So, his matches are feast for eyes, since the camera doesn't catch spins so well, but strategy is very much visible. Few people are able to continuously engage in long rallies with David and still win them - except when David himself messes up the point with an UE :sad:

Apemant
11-14-2006, 05:17 PM
ivan had 31 non serve winners david had 23

totol ivan 61 david 30

Where did you get this statistics? Can you post UEs and total points as well?

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 05:17 PM
Did you actually see the match? David doesn't have the variety of shots like Federer, but his tactics are arguably the best in the field. So, his matches are feast for eyes, since the camera doesn't catch spins so well, but strategy is very much visible. Few people are able to continuously engage in long rallies with David and still win them - except when David himself messes up the point with an UE :sad:

First: Federer is the best tactician in the field, followed by PMK and Ljubicic himself (the last two have that probably because they have limited technique, a matter of survival in court).
Second: no technique or tactic in the world are worth something when you're a huge choker.

Metis
11-14-2006, 05:19 PM
ivan had 31 non serve winners david had 23

totol ivan 61 david 30

I don't think that's entirely correct George. Ivan had 30 aces and another 31 winners. Some, if not most of those 31 must have been service winners (meaning David managed to touch the ball with his racket).

Apemant
11-14-2006, 05:20 PM
Congratulations to Ljubicic on the biggest win of his career. Marvellous. Only a couple of days before he gets to go home too! :lol:

It's not really the 'biggest win' of his career... but, he did make like $120k with that win, and its not that he makes that kind of money every week. Thats why he was so happy :)

Galathea
11-14-2006, 05:21 PM
Did you actually see the match? David doesn't have the variety of shots like Federer, but his tactics are arguably the best in the field. So, his matches are feast for eyes, since the camera doesn't catch spins so well, but strategy is very much visible. Few people are able to continuously engage in long rallies with David and still win them - except when David himself messes up the point with an UE :sad:

No they preffer people that goes with aces and voley and can't keep a long point because the lost their mind.
I don't like tennis like that.

And the former number 3? Well, do you want to count the first half of the year? BEFORE his injury? Or what? The other can be sick, ill, injured and have justification, but Nalbandian has to keep playing in the same level, with a chronical injury that's really serious.
Do you have any idea what kind of injury we're talking about? People had to retire because similar problems!! He has luck he can still play and still run like today...

Sorry, but did I watched another match??? Because some poster here seems to think this was a 6-0 6-0 for Ivan???!!!

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 05:21 PM
I don't think that's entirely correct George. Ivan had 30 aces and another 31 winners. Some, if not most of those 31 must have been service winners.

An ace is a service winner. As Roddick would say, the concept isn't hard to get.

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 05:22 PM
No they preffer people that goes with aces and voley and can't keep a long point because the lost their mind.I don't like tennis like that.

And the former number 3? Well, do you want to count the first half of the year? BEFORE his injury? Or what? The other can be sick, ill, injured and have justification, but Nalbandian has to keep playing in the same level, with a chronical injury that's really serious.
Do you have any idea what kind of injury we're talking about? People had to retire because similar problems!! He has luck he can still play and still run like today...

Sorry, but did I watched another match??? Because some poster here seems to think this was a 6-0 6-0 for Ivan???!!!

Sampras - 14 GS

You may not like it, but that's the way greats play the game.

jayjay
11-14-2006, 05:22 PM
It's not really the 'biggest win' of his career... but, he did make like $120k with that win, and its not that he makes that kind of money every week. Thats why he was so happy :)

I'm only quoting what the Ljubicic fan said. I don't care either way, Ljubicic is going home. Nalbandian-Roddick decides who joins Federer in the Semis.

El Legenda
11-14-2006, 05:23 PM
Where did you get this statistics? Can you post UEs and total points as well?

Stats

Ljubicic- Winners 61 UE 33
Nalbandian Winners 30 UE 23
Total Points won
Ljubicic 113
Nalbandian 105

Metis
11-14-2006, 05:25 PM
An ace is a service winner. As Roddick would say, the concept isn't hard to get.
When a player hits a serve and the receiver barely touches the ball then it's not a clean ace but a service winner. That's what I was told in tennis class. So, either the instructor was :silly: or you are wrong. :shrug:

Maybe someone else can clarify.

Apemant
11-14-2006, 05:28 PM
First: Federer is the best tactician in the field, followed by PMK and Ljubicic himself (the last two have that probably because they have limited technique, a matter of survival in court).
Second: no technique or tactic in the world are worth something when you're a huge choker.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Federer has much better slices and topspin, so he has more variety at his disposal. By 'tactics' I meant solely positional play, choosing sides, switching parallels and cross-courts etc. Stuff that is visible watching TV with that somewhat silly angle which doesn't display all the parameters in a rally. Federer is also great in that respect, but I believe his shotmaking is what makes the difference for him.
BTW did you see that 1st set David vs. Roger, before the former just collapsed for no apparent reason?

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 05:30 PM
When a player hits a serve and the receiver barely touches the ball then it's not a clean ace but a service winner. That's what I was told in tennis class. So, either the instructor was :silly: or you are wrong. :shrug:

Maybe someone else can clarify.

Winner is when you make the point without the other player touching the ball. Unless that happens, it's either a forced or unforced error. If the player touches the ball and doesn't return, he was forced to make a mistake by the other player: forced error.

Denaon
11-14-2006, 05:30 PM
No they preffer people that goes with aces and voley and can't keep a long point because the lost their mind.
I don't like tennis like that.

And the former number 3? Well, do you want to count the first half of the year? BEFORE his injury? Or what? The other can be sick, ill, injured and have justification, but Nalbandian has to keep playing in the same level, with a chronical injury that's really serious.
Do you have any idea what kind of injury we're talking about? People had to retire because similar problems!! He has luck he can still play and still run like today...

Sorry, but did I watched another match??? Because some poster here seems to think this was a 6-0 6-0 for Ivan???!!!

Hunny, it's not worth it....don't waste your time....that's my advice ;)

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 05:33 PM
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Federer has much better slices and topspin, so he has more variety at his disposal. By 'tactics' I meant solely positional play, choosing sides, switching parallels and cross-courts etc. Stuff that is visible watching TV with that somewhat silly angle which doesn't display all the parameters in a rally. Federer is also great in that respect, but I believe his shotmaking is what makes the difference for him.
BTW did you see that 1st set David vs. Roger, before the former just collapsed for no apparent reason?

Many players won a set against Federer playing like 110%. That's worth nothing, as tennis is either a best of 3 or 5 sets.
If you watched that match, then you know Federer served WTA-level.

Metis
11-14-2006, 05:41 PM
Winner is when you make the point without the other player touching the ball. Unless that happens, it's either a forced or unforced error. If the player touches the ball and doesn't return, he was forced to make a mistake by the other player: forced error.

I know all this, clever boy :p. Here is something for you from an article:

Venus then began to take charge. She won the fourth game by smacking four consecutive service winners, the last of which -- at 109 mph -- knocked the racket from Serena's hand.

Here is the link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/2001/us_open/news/2001/09/08/usopen_women_ap/

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 05:42 PM
I know all this, clever boy :p. Here is something for you from an article:

Venus then began to take charge. She won the fourth game by smacking four consecutive service winners, the last of which -- at 109 mph -- knocked the racket from Serena's hand.

Here is the link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/2001/us_open/news/2001/09/08/usopen_women_ap/

Big deal. You're taking the opinion of a journalist.

Metis
11-14-2006, 05:45 PM
Big deal. You're taking the opinion of a journalist.

Some more info (you should be flattered, I am spending so much time for you ;) ):

"A winning serve that is not touched by the opponent is called an ace; if the receiver manages to touch it but fails to successfully return it, it is called a service winner."

from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis#Serve

Apemant
11-14-2006, 05:47 PM
Stats

Ljubicic- Winners 61 UE 33
Nalbandian Winners 30 UE 23
Total Points won
Ljubicic 113
Nalbandian 105

So, when you do some math,
forced errors - Ivan 42, David 29 (which means, David forced Ivan to 42 errors, while Ivan forced David to 29 - and even of those 29, I guess most of them are unreturned serves)

Check some GS matches by David. He rarely goes for straight winners (trying to hit corners etc), most of his points are neither his winners nor opponent's UEs - but the situations in which he forces the opponent to make an error. Except for service winners (not aces, but unreturned serves - where Ivan is also ahead, I bet) those are the points where he *tactically* won a rally - not by hitting some crazy winner Fed-style, but with a good positional play (of course, its not that simple, but incidently I watched this match and I have firm belief in my eyes :cool: ).
Also, deep in the third set David seemed tired and didn't even try to catch some of Ivan's winners. So I bet most of those winners are from 3rd set.

Understand one thing - I'm not saying that Ivan didn't deserve to win this match, or that he is a bad player, serve-only player or whatnot. He certainly can win long rallies as well, and he has that beautiful down-the-line one-handed backhand. I just don't like putting down David's abilities like that, or gloating over his loss etc.

Loremaster
11-14-2006, 05:47 PM
This vicotry mean nothing , beacuse Ivan only helped Andy to get to semis, Nalbadnain won't have any motivation and will be bloody tired , Roddick will win in straights , but comeback was really great, I thought Ivan won't have fuel but he made great job, to say goodbye to the TMC with class

jocaputs
11-14-2006, 05:50 PM
round robins:rolleyes:
funny nalbandian can still qualify if federer beats ljubo in 2(likely)
and Dave beats Roddick in 2(unlikely)
but good luck david:angel:

Apemant
11-14-2006, 06:13 PM
Some more info (you should be flattered, I am spending so much time for you ;) ):

"A winning serve that is not touched by the opponent is called an ace; if the receiver manages to touch it but fails to successfully return it, it is called a service winner."

from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis#Serve

That is correct. There was already a thread where I asked about this discrepancy in terminology, and the following was concluded:

When a player touches the serve, but doesn't return it, it is called a 'service winner'. But that term is poorly worded, as those 'service winners' don't count as winners in any statistics. What is usually added to winners are ACES. In an ideal world, an ace would really be a 'service winner' - because apart from serves, winners really are shots not touched by the opponent, as GlennMirny correctly noted.

So, 61 winners hit by Ivan in this match are 30 aces and 31 winners from rallies. 'Service winners' are counted as David's forced errors and those are usually not displayed in statistics, but you can calculate them by subtracting Ivan's winners and David's UEs from Ivan's total points, if you follow. Of course, those forced errors are not solely Ivan's serves unreturned (but touched) by David, but also various Ivan's shots during the rallies unreturned (but touched) by David.

Hope all of this makes sense to you :angel:

GlennMirnyi
11-14-2006, 06:17 PM
That is correct. There was already a thread where I asked about this discrepancy in terminology, and the following was concluded:

When a player touches the serve, but doesn't return it, it is called a 'service winner'. But that term is poorly worded, as those 'service winners' don't count as winners in any statistics. What is usually added to winners are ACES. In an ideal world, an ace would really be a 'service winner' - because apart from serves, winners really are shots not touched by the opponent, as GlennMirny correctly noted.

So, 61 winners hit by Ivan in this match are 30 aces and 31 winners from rallies. 'Service winners' are counted as David's forced errors and those are usually not displayed in statistics, but you can calculate them by subtracting Ivan's winners and David's UEs from Ivan's total points, if you follow. Of course, those forced errors are not solely Ivan's serves unreturned (but touched) by David, but also various Ivan's shots during the rallies unreturned (but touched) by David.

Hope all of this makes sense to you :angel:

Exactly. Great post. :)

Apemant
11-14-2006, 06:19 PM
This vicotry mean nothing , beacuse Ivan only helped Andy to get to semis, Nalbadnain won't have any motivation and will be bloody tired , Roddick will win in straights , but comeback was really great, I thought Ivan won't have fuel but he made great job, to say goodbye to the TMC with class

On the contrary, David will have all the motivation in the world, because if he manages to win in 2 sets, he only needs Fed to beat Ljubo (which is highly likely) and he will qualify for the semis.
Not to mention $120k that any win produces. :devil:

Even if he grinds out a hard victory in 3 sets, he still only needs Fed to beat Ljubo in 2 (again, highly likely) - and he advances nonetheless. I don't see how can you say he won't have any motivation?

bad gambler
11-14-2006, 06:24 PM
Ljubosssssss :rocker2:

Metis
11-14-2006, 06:25 PM
That is correct. There was already a thread where I asked about this discrepancy in terminology, and the following was concluded:

When a player touches the serve, but doesn't return it, it is called a 'service winner'. But that term is poorly worded, as those 'service winners' don't count as winners in any statistics. What is usually added to winners are ACES. In an ideal world, an ace would really be a 'service winner' - because apart from serves, winners really are shots not touched by the opponent, as GlennMirny correctly noted.

So, 61 winners hit by Ivan in this match are 30 aces and 31 winners from rallies. 'Service winners' are counted as David's forced errors and those are usually not displayed in statistics, but you can calculate them by subtracting Ivan's winners and David's UEs from Ivan's total points, if you follow. Of course, those forced errors are not solely Ivan's serves unreturned (but touched) by David, but also various Ivan's shots during the rallies unreturned (but touched) by David.

Hope all of this makes sense to you :angel:

Thanks for clarifying Apemant. I missed that thread or it might have been before I joined MTF. I was under the impression that service winners were included in the total number together with aces and backhand/forhand/net winners.

jayjay
11-14-2006, 06:28 PM
On the contrary, David will have all the motivation in the world, because if he manages to win in 2 sets, he only needs Fed to beat Ljubo (which is highly likely) and he will qualify for the semis.
Not to mention $120k that any win produces. :devil:

Even if he grinds out a hard victory in 3 sets, he still only needs Fed to beat Ljubo in 2 (again, highly likely) - and he advances nonetheless. I don't see how can you say he won't have any motivation?

Agreed. Whether Nalbandian won today or not, he still would have needed to beat Roddick anyway to advance. So it doesn't change things from that stand point, he'll be pleased. It's not everyday you get to lose 2 matches in the space of a few days and still make the Semis in still relatively your own hands. :lol:

The beauty of RR. Or not.

Apemant
11-14-2006, 07:06 PM
The beauty of RR. Or not.

Definitely the beauty. Keeps suspense alive. Dead matches are jokes, just consider dead DC rubbers. Who cares about them? They even acknowledge that by playing best of 3 instead of best of 5.

jayjay
11-14-2006, 07:23 PM
[QUOTE=Apemant;4452874]Definitely the beauty. Keeps suspense alive.

Suspense of mediocrity though. I'm a Nalbandian fan and hope he gets through the group and defends the title, but still...

He's lost 2 matches and can still go through, is that good or bad? Good for suspense, but not good with respect to the fact tennis is supposed to be a KO sport...or it was till Disney got involved.

I'm ok with RR for TMC, if it's only TMC. The different scenarios that we have here, are ok just once a season. However, we're going to be "treated" with it more and more. Unfortunately.

Dead matches are jokes, just consider dead DC rubbers.

Dead matches are useless. Agreed. However, if a tournament is KO, they aren't any dead matches, are there?

I'm not really talking of TMC here, more of the future that RR will bring. Dead matches galore.

NyGeL
11-14-2006, 08:22 PM
what a choker Nalbo... I left home with the match 7/5 5/4 and was sure he was going to win... omfg...

jazar
11-14-2006, 08:53 PM
what a choker Nalbo... I left home with the match 7/5 5/4 and was sure he was going to win... omfg...

same here. i had the interactive scoring on on the net and i quit it cos i though nalbandian was about to win.

nonetheless, good win for ivan. however, he stands less chance than roddick and nalbandian had against federer and will succumb easily

Galathea
11-14-2006, 09:02 PM
Honestly, this was a lot of merit of Ljubo. It wasn't the typical Nalbo moment. (I love him because I love strategy game more than ace-voley, etc.. but when he has his moments....)

Ljubo was not that average version we saw with Roddick (like Federer from today's match was not the Federer of a good day), the guy suddenly looked fresh as the better. And, while Nalby made not some good choices and had bad luck with the ballbloy episode and two balls touching the net, for example he saved several sets point, even with Ljubo's serve. Hey, he made an ace with his second serve now that I remember.
One thing was the score and another watching the game. Was a great game for both. This was one of the times, when was not a lapsus thingy, but Ljubo showing a nerve that he didn't show since a lot of time.
And David looked good. The guy can go on and on and on.. I can't understand how someone with his body's structure can have that endurance... He looked better and with energy to play for more after three hours... Other players after two sets are calling 911.

Caralimon
11-14-2006, 09:46 PM
Nice win.

May the Duck finish the task now

hammett
11-14-2006, 10:21 PM
:bigclap: Well done Fat dave

Good choke :)

keep the choke up vs Andy :) :cool:

:worship:

Congrats to Ljubicic, anyway, who stayed in that 2nd set in spite of being tired, waiting for the choke and upped his level in the 3rd and won it. ;)

Now, who's the girl in your av George Constanza :eek: :drool:

:wavey:

Galathea
11-14-2006, 11:34 PM
When Nalby chokes, I'm the first in pointing it. Today, he could make some mistakes, but also 80% was merit of Ljubo. And it was a very though match for both.. with that theory, Ljubo chocked in the first set when he was clearly 3-0 up with not problems over David.
Both played very well, and fought like crazy.

DDrago2
11-15-2006, 12:19 AM
with a ballboy dropping a ball well Nalby made a winner on a match point for him, and two balls on the net in similar situation that stopped his winners; 7-5...

Is it possible that this happened? Nalbandian is as unlucky as Nadal is lucky! Poor Nalby! What has he sinned against the God??

Galathea
11-15-2006, 12:24 AM
Is it possible that this happened? Nalbandian is as unlucky as Nadal is lucky! Poor Nalby! What has he sinned against the God??

You could heard the cursing, he screamed like crazy. Even when the tv was repeating the failed point, the audio was open and he just keep cursing and insulting. We argentine have the most strange luck ;)

NYCtennisfan
11-15-2006, 12:31 AM
Nalbandian is a great returner of weak 1st serves and 2nd serves, but he can be aced left and right like Ivan did yesterday. Even with the huge serving, Nalbandian was winning a lot of the points on the Ivan 1st serve on points that weren't aces. Ivan showed a lot of heart out there to pull that win out.

Sunny_Boy
11-15-2006, 01:08 AM
Ljubo :)
Great comeback

Action Jackson
11-15-2006, 07:41 AM
Enjoyable match and winning 1 match could be enough to make the semis.

yomike
11-15-2006, 11:50 AM
David had this in the bag but somehow manage to choke against someone who look like he just got out of bed.

GermanBoy
11-15-2006, 02:36 PM
Well done, Ivan!:worship:

Don't think Nalbandian is that fat though... :)

Galathea
11-15-2006, 02:58 PM
I think all have the rights to comment and make fun. But, even if he doesn't read this forums or even care. His fans does:

HIS NEWFEW AND ALSO GODSON DIED. He had 9 years old. Seems that Nalby is considering to drop the tournament and come back to Argentina. (thread called Lautaro Nalbandian)

Can at least for today and tomorrow, for respect, drop the stupid Fat Dave.
Just as a sign of respect.
Talk about the match, but don't make fun of him please.
Thanks.