German & Holland: what's going on? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

German & Holland: what's going on?

Voo de Mar
11-13-2006, 08:05 PM
For example...

Germany 1993

Davis Cup: champion

ATP - Top 100 ranking at the end of the year.
2 - Stich, Michael
11 - Becker, Boris
31 - Goellner, Marc-Kevin
58 - Karbacher, Bernd
70 - Braasch, Karsten
73 - Prinosil, David
94 - Steeb, Carl-Uwe

Germany 2006

Davis Cup: only playoffs

ATP - Top 100 ranking at the end of the year.
11 - Haas, Tommy
48 - Kiefer, Nicolas
57 - Mayer, Florian
58 - Kohlschreiber, Philipp
62 - Becker, Benjamin
79 - Phau, Bjorn
83 - Greul, Simon
97 - Schuettler, Rainer

----------------------------------------

The Netherlands 1993

Davis Cup: quarterfinalist

ATP - Top 100 ranking at the end of the year.
15 - Krajicek, Richard
42 - Haarhuis, Paul
53 - Siemerink, Jan
62 - Eltingh, Jacco

The Netherlands 2006

Davis Cup: playoffs (and defeat!)

ATP - Top 100 ranking at the end of the year.
84 - Sluiter, Raemon

I remember many years ago when Haas and Kiefer had been players like Becker or Stich. They didn't do expectations and today both Haas and Kiefer are "veterans". The only young and promising German player - Zverev is now No. 155 in the world. Similar situation in the Netherlands - only young and promising Haase is 163... But their peers like Murray or Djokovic are in Top 20!

Was ist los?
Wat gebeurt? :D

Balerion
11-13-2006, 08:19 PM
I remember many years ago when Haas and Kiefer had been players like Becker or Stich. They didn't do expectations and today both Haas and Kiefer are "veterans". The only young and promising German player - Zverev is now No. 155 in the world. Similar situation in the Netherlands - only young and promising Haase is 163... But their peers like Murray or Djokovic are in Top 20!

Was ist los?
Wat gebeurt? :D

It's true that Germany doesn't have a ton of prospects. Andreas Beck could still work out, but he probably doesn't have top-tier potential.

Robin Haase is absolutely not the only young and promising player from the Netherlands. Thiemo de Bakker is a fast-rising former junior #1. He's currently the 8th highest ranked player born in 1988, but he'll move up higher, he just hasn't played that many events. I don't think Igor Sijsling is quite in the same class as Haase or de Bakker, but he's also worth watching.

Voo de Mar
11-13-2006, 08:31 PM
Robin Haase is absolutely not the only young and promising player from the Netherlands. Thiemo de Bakker is a fast-rising former junior #1. He's currently the 8th highest ranked player born in 1988, but he'll move up higher, he just hasn't played that many events.

I know that de Bakker (No. 468) is promising but four days younger Del Potro is No. 93. Usually age "18" is a breakthrough in career of best players in the world. Athough could be different: Krajicek at 18 was only "129".

Balerion
11-13-2006, 09:08 PM
I know that de Bakker (No. 468) is promising but four days younger Del Potro is No. 93. Usually age "18" is a breakthrough in career of best players in the world. Athough could be different: Krajicek at 18 was only "129".

It's always great to have success that early, but it's not the only path to success. Some guys don't fully physical mature until a bit later and some guys stick around on the juniors circuit a bit longer. De Bakker falls under the latter category. It's not like he's been floundering in futures - he just hasn't played in enough to boost his ranking as much as some of the other guys.

FerrersLinda
11-13-2006, 09:26 PM
Wat gebeurt? :D

That would be: Wat gebeurt er? or Wat is er aan de hand?:p

Voo de Mar
11-13-2006, 09:30 PM
That would be: Wat gebeurt er? or Wat is er aan de hand?:p

Thanks :yeah: I would like to study Dutch cause the Netherlands is my favourite foreign country :devil:

shotgun
11-13-2006, 10:57 PM
I surely wish my country had 8 players in the top 100, 2 players in the top 50 like Germany does. :lol:

Balerion
11-13-2006, 11:00 PM
I surely wish my country had 8 players in the top 100, 2 players in the top 50 like Germany does. :lol:

Sadly, I don't think Niue has much of an up-and-coming tennis program.

Voo de Mar
11-13-2006, 11:03 PM
I surely wish my country had 8 players in the top 100, 2 players in the top 50 like Germany does. :lol:

Sure :) Anyway German tennis has a huge crisis after great 90s with Becker, Stich in the forefront of, but also with Graf and Huber. They all were prominent players. Germany had a big events like Munich (Grand Slam Cup), Frankfurt ("Masters") or Stuttgart (TMS). Now, only memory remains.

shotgun
11-13-2006, 11:05 PM
Sadly, I don't think Niue has much of an up-and-coming tennis program.

Not Niue :lol:

I'm Brazilian actually.

shotgun
11-13-2006, 11:08 PM
Sure :) Anyway German tennis has a huge crisis after great 90s with Becker, Stich in the forefront of, but also with Graf and Huber. They all were prominent players. Germany had a big events like Munich (Grand Slam Cup), Frankfurt ("Masters") or Stuttgart (TMS). Now, only memory remains.

Australia's case is worse IMO. Only Hewitt in the top 100 today, 10 years ago they had:

Woodforde (27)
Philippoussis (30)
Stoltenberg (31)
Woodbridge (36)
Stolle (58)
Rafter (62)
Fromberg (76)
Draper (95)

Voo de Mar
11-13-2006, 11:11 PM
Australia's case is worse IMO. Only Hewitt in the top 100 today, 10 years ago they had:

Woodforde (27)
Philippoussis (30)
Stoltenberg (31)
Woodbridge (36)
Stolle (58)
Rafter (62)
Fromberg (76)
Draper (95)

Yes, many countries have similar problems nowadays. I think Sweden as well. Where are successors of such a great players like Borg, Wilander, Edberg or even if Enqvist?...

shotgun
11-13-2006, 11:18 PM
Yes, many countries have similar problems nowadays. I think Sweden as well. Where are successors of such a great players like Borg, Wilander, Edberg or even if Enqvist?...

Although the current Swedish generation doesn't really compare indeed to the past ones, can't overlook the fact that 2 of the 3 main players have been very seriously injured in critical points of their careers (that would be Vinciguerra and J. Johansson).

Voo de Mar
11-13-2006, 11:27 PM
Although the current Swedish generation doesn't really compare indeed to the past ones, can't overlook the fact that 2 of the 3 main players have been very seriously injured in critical points of their careers (that would be Vinciguerra and J. Johansson).

Yes, but for example in 1989 retired at only 21, super-talented Kent Carlsson. After all Sweden had still many players at the end of the year high in the ATP-ranking: Edberg was 3rd, Wilander (12), Gunnarsson (29) Gustafsson (34), Svensson (41), Kroon (46), Pernfors (48).
Today only Soderling is in Top 50... scarcely No. 25

shotgun
11-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Yes, but for example in 1989 retired at only 21, super-talented Kent Carlsson. After all Sweden had still many players at the end of the year high in the ATP-ranking: Edberg was 3rd, Wilander (12), Gunnarsson (29) Gustafsson (34), Svensson (41), Kroon (46), Pernfors (48).
Today only Soderling is in Top 50... scarcely No. 25

They certainly had more depth and quality back then.

NyGeL
11-14-2006, 12:03 AM
Sure :) Anyway German tennis has a huge crisis after great 90s with Becker, Stich in the forefront of, but also with Graf and Huber. They all were prominent players. Germany had a big events like Munich (Grand Slam Cup), Frankfurt ("Masters") or Stuttgart (TMS). Now, only memory remains.

life is a wheel :)

Action Jackson
11-14-2006, 03:10 AM
Yes, but for example in 1989 retired at only 21, super-talented Kent Carlsson. After all Sweden had still many players at the end of the year high in the ATP-ranking: Edberg was 3rd, Wilander (12), Gunnarsson (29) Gustafsson (34), Svensson (41), Kroon (46), Pernfors (48).
Today only Soderling is in Top 50... scarcely No. 25

As NyGel said these things go in cycles and there are many reasons why the Swedes aren't as good as they were.

They took their eye of the ball in the development department, the third generation couldn't match the achievements of the golden generation and it was injuries that stopped Carlsson and the most important they just aren't as good.

canbera
11-14-2006, 03:49 PM
Germany 2006

ATP - Top 100 ranking at the end of the year.
11 - Haas, Tommy
48 - Kiefer, Nicolas
57 - Mayer, Florian
58 - Kohlschreiber, Philipp
62 - Becker, Benjamin
79 - Phau, Bjorn
83 - Greul, Simon
97 - Schuettler, Rainer

I remember many years ago when Haas and Kiefer had been players like Becker or Stich. They didn't do expectations and today both Haas and Kiefer are "veterans". The only young and promising German player - Zverev is now No. 155 in the world. Similar situation in the Netherlands - only young and promising Haase is 163... But their peers like Murray or Djokovic are in Top 20!



I got to agree with you. German tennis enjoyed better times in the past, that is for sure.

1st of all, I prefer to see Tommy Haas and Nicolas Kiefer in a Davis Cup team
instead of Rainer Schüttler or Lars Burgsmüller like it was the case in 2003. Rainer was quite successful in 2003, but was never able to bring his team through a tie. Too bad Tommy and Nicolas don't get along too well... which is a shame, because they could set a good example for the younger players instead of wasting time for their stupid quarrel.

Saying that, we could almost be happy to have someone like Alex Waske ( whom I don't really like), who doesn't have the best technique, but at least fighting spirit and dedication.

even though I got to add things don't even look that bad at all. There are Florian Mayer, Philipp Kohlschreiber and Benjamin Becker, and I think at least one of them is going to win his first title in 2007. And we should not forget about Mischa Zverev.

Purple Rainbow
11-14-2006, 04:12 PM
There are few countries which are as good as they once were. For one, people tend to remember the glory days best, and second, tennis has become much more of a global phenomenon. Players from a lot more different countries are trying to battle their way into the top 100, not just a few Swedes, Spaniards, Germans, French, Americans, Aussies and the occasional South American.

And as for Dutch players specific. In Holland there's a strong emphasis on education. Players are encouraged to study until they have at least achieved secondary education. Only after that, when they are 17 or 18, will they be able to commit to their sports full time. This is true for all athletes, not just tennis players. If a Dutch player will break through, it will probably not be before the age of 20.

NyGeL
11-14-2006, 09:25 PM
Spain and USA always at the top.