Ljubicic and Federer speak out on ATP changes [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Ljubicic and Federer speak out on ATP changes

nobama
11-11-2006, 06:21 PM
Tennis chiefs shorten finals in overhaul
November 11 2006 at 04:05PM

Shanghai - Tennis chiefs on Saturday said they would shorten finals at 11 tournaments and test round-robin formats next year as part of a major overhaul of the men's circuit.

The ATP also announced more Sunday starts, bigger prize-money and a multi-million dollar marketing fund to build the sport's profile, along with greater use of the "Hawkeye" video umpire.

Best-of-five set finals at Barcelona, Basel, Gstaad, Kitzbuhel, Stuttgart and Vienna, and at the Masters Series events in Hamburg, Madrid, Monte Carlo, Paris and Rome will be cut to best-of-three for easier TV scheduling and to reduce strain on players.

Round-robins, where each player plays everyone in his group, will be tested in three different formats at selected events.

ATP president Etienne de Villiers consulted the top eight players on the changes here on Friday ahead of the season-ending Masters Cup.

"We've moved in the right direction this past year and there is a lot of potential to improve the game of tennis even more for players, tournaments and fans," said Ivan Ljubicic, president of the ATP Player Council and a competitor here.

"For sure there will be challenging times ahead for all of us and we may not necessarily agree, but I am optimistic from the discussions we've had with the leadership of the ATP that we will do what's beneficial for the game." :tape:

The round-robin test, which will guarantee fans the chance to see their favourite players more than once, drew immediate fire from world number one Roger Federer.

"I'm not so happy about the round robins but it's a test, we'll have to see how it goes," Federer said.

Prize money will be increased across the board for the first time since 2000 and the Hawkeye system, allows players to challenge line calls, will be used for the first time at the Australian Open, the Indian Wells and Miami Masters and the Masters Cup.

Player burn-out has been a constant source of debate, most recently at last week's Paris Masters where the withdrawal of several top players angered organisers.

"I don't think it's good that nobody of the top five played in Paris so we have to look at it," Federer said. "But sometimes players are just exhausted, like I was, or injured."

DrJules
11-11-2006, 06:33 PM
Best-of-five set finals at Barcelona, Basel, Gstaad, Kitzbuhel, Stuttgart and Vienna, and at the Masters Series events in Hamburg, Madrid, Monte Carlo, Paris and Rome will be cut to best-of-three for easier TV scheduling and to reduce strain on players.

Player burn-out has been a constant source of debate, most recently at last week's Paris Masters where the withdrawal of several top players angered organisers.

"I don't think it's good that nobody of the top five played in Paris so we have to look at it," Federer said. "But sometimes players are just exhausted, like I was, or injured."

Considering injuries and exhaustion the reduction from 5 to 3 sets for non-grand slams can only be a good change. It will also emphasize the primacy of the grand slam events.

nobama
11-11-2006, 07:22 PM
Considering injuries and exhaustion the reduction from 5 to 3 sets for non-grand slams can only be a good change. It will also emphasize the primacy of the grand slam events.
I'm kind of sad about IW and Miami not being best of 5 finals though. :sad:

scoobs
11-11-2006, 08:15 PM
I know what you mean - it's a shame Rome won't be a best of 5 anymore because the last two years the final has virtually been match of the season.

But something's got to give - everyone wants a piece of the top players and there's too many wanting a piece for it to go around.

scoobs
11-11-2006, 08:16 PM
The round-robin test, which will guarantee fans the chance to see their favourite players more than once, drew immediate fire from world number one Roger Federer.

"I'm not so happy about the round robins but it's a test, we'll have to see how it goes," Federer said.

I always thought it odd he was reportedly in favour of it. Didn't sound like something Mr Traditionalist would really go for.

Fedex
11-11-2006, 08:22 PM
I'm kind of sad about IW and Miami not being best of 5 finals though. :sad:
Indian Wells changes from 5 sets to 3 sets every other year anyway. I remember Federer beating Henman 6-3 6-3 in the final a few years ago, and this year it was best of 5 sets.

Flibbertigibbet
11-11-2006, 09:54 PM
I can't believe they're changing the best of five finals to best of three, those are some of the best matches of the season. :tape:

idolwatcher1
11-11-2006, 10:16 PM
"I'm not so happy about the round robins but it's a test, we'll have to see how it goes," Federer said.

Roger's only played at 5 of the 13 tournaments planning to include the RR format, and the last time he played at any of them was in 2000... so I doubt these changes will affect him much... ;)

sylacauga
11-11-2006, 10:20 PM
I'm kind of sad about IW and Miami not being best of 5 finals though. :sad:

Where does the article mention anything about IW and Miami? The 11 tournaments that would be changed were listed in the article.

Best-of-five set finals at Barcelona, Basel, Gstaad, Kitzbuhel, Stuttgart and Vienna, and at the Masters Series events in Hamburg, Madrid, Monte Carlo, Paris and Rome will be cut to best-of-three

s.m.
11-11-2006, 10:34 PM
ivan is telling a completely different story in croatian newspapers
he is totally against it ( he´s even avoiding to play in those tornaments next year ) so i dont know why is he acting all diplomatic now
ok, i can understand because he´s the president of playes council, but stop bullshiting everybody

robinhood
11-11-2006, 11:00 PM
Indian Wells changes from 5 sets to 3 sets every other year anyway. I remember Federer beating Henman 6-3 6-3 in the final a few years ago, and this year it was best of 5 sets.

:confused: They do?
Fed/Henman final was 2004, but the 05 and 06 have been best of 5, so maybe they switched it after 04.

robinhood
11-11-2006, 11:03 PM
They are shortening the length of the finals but increasing the number of matches players would have to play to get to the finals.

DOESN'T. MAKE. SENSE.

GlennMirnyi
11-11-2006, 11:14 PM
That's just ridiculous... that Vienna and Basel have their finals reduced, that's one thing. Reducing the number of sets in MS finals is heavy and ridiculous.

Johnny Groove
11-11-2006, 11:47 PM
OMG, why cant this clown realize that the schedule is the problem? :retard:

And, so he wants to reduce injury, he reduces finals to 3 sets, but increases the number of matches before the final :rolleyes:


BRILLIANT LOGIC :retard:

Deboogle!.
11-11-2006, 11:49 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the more common 32-draw RR tourneys will be 8 groups of 3, so each player will play 2 matches to get to the QFs, aka, no extra matches at all....

nobama
11-12-2006, 04:59 AM
Where does the article mention anything about IW and Miami? The 11 tournaments that would be changed were listed in the article.
Oops. My bad.

Sunset of Age
11-12-2006, 03:32 PM
OMG, why cant this clown realize that the schedule is the problem? :retard:

And, so he wants to reduce injury, he reduces finals to 3 sets, but increases the number of matches before the final :rolleyes:

BRILLIANT LOGIC :retard:

Absolutely ridiculous, indeed.
Why not do something about that bloddy schedule instead???

Action Jackson
11-12-2006, 03:37 PM
Mr Disney could open his mouth and circumnavigate the world 20x over in a balloon with all his hot air.

Of course make cosmetic changes to make it like you're doing something while not adressing the major issues.

PamV
11-12-2006, 03:47 PM
When ever they "test" round robin style in events wouldn't that mean that the total number of players will be fewer than otherwise? If they do away with the process of the elemination by round style then they can't include as many guys in the total draw.

Frooty_Bazooty
11-12-2006, 03:48 PM
OMG, why cant this clown realize that the schedule is the problem? :retard:

And, so he wants to reduce injury, he reduces finals to 3 sets, but increases the number of matches before the final :rolleyes:


BRILLIANT LOGIC :retard:

The players only have to play 13 tournaments a year!!!!! Everything else is optional. so if they decide to play 4 tournaments in a row and get injured cos of that, then thats entirely THEIR fault!

They are shortening the length of the finals but increasing the number of matches players would have to play to get to the finals.

DOESN'T. MAKE. SENSE.

Deb! was right, there are no extra matches being played! :rolleyes: what DOESNT MAKE SENSE is that you havent even bothered to read up on this before criticising it

nobama
11-13-2006, 11:22 AM
Federer shrugs off intended loss in round robin format

World number one Roger Federer Sunday shrugged off the suspicion that the ATP round-robin format may lead to intended loss in the next season.

Next year ATP will experiment in 30 tournaments with the format of round-robin, for which some players have thrown criticism, saying that players will surrender while facing stronger opponents to save energy and have a chance to beat a weaker opponent later.

"No, that is not gonna happen," the Swiss said after beating David Nalbandian in the Masters Cup opening match. "The players will be divided into groups of three or four. But if the players are tied with the same wins and losses, the result will be counted on set won or lost, so I think you have to be lucky to get through with this method.

"The organisers will get the feedback from the fans. I think it's up to the fans. if they like it they will keep it but I don't think the format could bring change to the players' part. You are gonna play to win."

Federer has been grouped in Red with defending champion and arch rival Nalbandian, Croatian number one Ivan Ljubicic, who is arguably the world's best indoor player behind Federer, and big-serving 2006 US Open finalist Andy Roddick of the United States.

Source: Xinhua

jayjay
11-16-2006, 06:32 PM
"It is weird that you see the guy who you beat and he's in the semi-final," said the world number four, who lost 7-6 6-4 to Roger Federer in his final game." Ljubicic said.

It's not weird. It's very simple. And Roddick could have said the same had Ljubicic gone through, and Nalbandian could have said the same had Roddick gone through.

Everyone knew at the start that it was very very possible this group would boil down to Federer 3-0, and the others 1-2. That's what happened. Tough shit for Ljubo. He should have beaten Nalbandian in straight sets then.

For the record, I'm not in favour AT ALL of RR on the tour in general, but bitching about how you went out when you know the rules beforehand is a bit stupid.

What does he propose? That he should go through because he's on the players council? :lol:

RickDaStick
11-16-2006, 06:49 PM
I can see where Ljubo is coming from but someone is always going to be left out and in this case its him. If he would of beat Fed, then it wouldnt be fair for Roddick who beat Ivan yet he goes home and Ivan goes into the semis. It is how it is. although I dont like the format because these players play all year in the knockout format where one loss and you are out and here we got Nalby with 2 loses and he is moving on and has a chance to win the title.

Galathea
11-16-2006, 08:35 PM
It's not weird. It's very simple. And Roddick could have said the same had Ljubicic gone through, and Nalbandian could have said the same had Roddick gone through.

Everyone knew at the start that it was very very possible this group would boil down to Federer 3-0, and the others 1-2. That's what happened. Tough shit for Ljubo. He should have beaten Nalbandian in straight sets then.

For the record, I'm not in favour AT ALL of RR on the tour in general, but bitching about how you went out when you know the rules beforehand is a bit stupid.

What does he propose? That he should go through because he's on the players council? :lol:

Absoultely
More, Roger could have said the same the past year.. when he lost the final to someone that in theory was "eliminated" by him in the first match.

RR, with all the problems, rewards the regularity. And at equal points by matches, what matters is how you won/lost those. And that' by sets.
Ljubo lost against someone Nalbo beated in two sets and also managed to get one set against Roger, who won straigh against Ljubo. And he won against Nalby in three sets.

I don't think the RR system is for every tournament. I do like it for this Master where only a selected group can participate. And it's all against all.
If he ended with the same difference of w/l sets than David, then by direct result, yes, Ivan is the winner because he beated Nalbo. But if the other one was a better fighter and got better results against the same people he lost, plus he didn't win easy... It's logic.
The problem is that it's a weird concept for tennis, where you have rounds and you lose, you're out.

I do agree that RR eliminates that pressure that makes interesting the sport. But in some cases, like the Master, I think it's ok.

Now the three sets? I don't like it at all... What will do Nalby?! He's the 5 sets player by excellence :lol:

BlackSilver
11-16-2006, 08:41 PM
Sad is too see that the fifth and the sixth slams will continue to be best of five. Damn

Billabong
11-16-2006, 08:42 PM
I don't really care that the smaller tournaments that had best of 5 sets finals will be reduced to best of 3, but the Masters Series finals reduction is really disappointing:sad: Who can forget all the amazing finals we had in finals of TMS events:sad:? I'm also really against the RR format, why can't they just keep the good old format that we all loved:)

ExpectedWinner
11-16-2006, 09:03 PM
Nalby is in the semis with a chance to win the whole thing despite 2 losses this week. The RR couldn't be more ridiculous.

rrfnpump
11-16-2006, 09:10 PM
RR sucks... good Ljubo finally realizes it also :)

MisterQ
11-16-2006, 09:12 PM
Mr Disney could open his mouth and circumnavigate the world 20x over in a balloon with all his hot air.

Of course make cosmetic changes to make it like you're doing something while not adressing the major issues.

That's half a million more miles without his feet on the ground.

MisterQ
11-16-2006, 09:14 PM
I'm kind of sad about IW and Miami not being best of 5 finals though. :sad:

IW and Miami have been changed to best of 7. :lol:

Via
11-16-2006, 09:40 PM
:lol: isn't it funny that he doesn't see how a system can be unfair until he cops the other end of it?

i do agree that in this case there's nothing unfair about the end result as they all went into the tournament knowing what the rules are. and for these guys it isn't their first year at TMC. same for RRs next year... if players choose to enter an RR, they'd better not complain afterwards.

btw there's more to his quote: "I'm not delighted with the project, not at all," Ljubicic said. "But, I mean, we'll see. Before you judge something, you have to test it. I'm always for testing. So let's see how it's going to go, and then hopefully here next year we're going to talk about it and see what we going to decide."

translation: let's see how much i will get helped by the new system next year before i decide if it's going to work for all of us :p

BlackSilver
11-16-2006, 09:50 PM
Nalby is in the semis with a chance to win the whole thing despite 2 losses this week. The RR couldn't be more ridiculous.

Who should be in his place then?

Leo
11-16-2006, 11:06 PM
This is all bullshit. No best of 5 finals? Round robin? It's all bullshit and I hate it.

Galathea
11-16-2006, 11:14 PM
Nalby is in the semis with a chance to win the whole thing despite 2 losses this week. The RR couldn't be more ridiculous.

Well, the fact is with Ljubo had two losses this week too, like Roddick too...
It's not ridiculous, it's another method, that takes in consideration, first how many matches you win and if you're tied, how did you won/lost them (numbers of sets) and then if you're still tied with someone, how it went between you both. In this case, Nalby difference is 0 (4-4), while Ljubo is -2 (3-5)... like it or not in that sense Nalbandian was more regular or better against all...:rolleyes: I don't like the system. I think it works for this tournament where you have the 8 top players of the year. Put them in two groups to play against each other.

As I said, Roger lost the title the past year against someone he beated in first round.

The three players: Nalby, Ljubo and Andy lost two and won one. The same you said is valid for Ljubo and Roddick in SF...

nobama
11-16-2006, 11:17 PM
It's not ridiculous in this type of setting where you have the top 8 playing each other. OK maybe Ljubicic should be in the semis because he beat Nalbandian but I don't have a problem with RR in this type of setting.

ExpectedWinner
11-16-2006, 11:40 PM
Well, the fact is with Ljubo had two losses this week too, like Roddick too...
It's not ridiculous, it's another method, that takes in consideration, first how many matches you win and if you're tied, how did you won/lost them (numbers of sets) and then if you're still tied with someone, how it went between you both. In this case, Nalby difference is 0 (4-4), while Ljubo is -2 (3-5)... like it or not in that sense Nalbandian was more regular or better against all...:rolleyes: I don't like the system. I think it works for this tournament where you have the 8 top players of the year. Put them in two groups to play against each other.

As I said, Roger lost the title the past year against someone he beated in first round.

The three players: Nalby, Ljubo and Andy lost two and won one. The same you said is valid for Ljubo and Roddick in SF...


My previous post is not about David/Ivan/Andy, it is about the RR system. The system allows a player with 2 losses to be a semifinalist/winner of the tournament. It's ridiculous. IMO, if you lost once, not to mention twice, you should go home.

jayjay
11-17-2006, 12:03 AM
Nalby is in the semis with a chance to win the whole thing despite 2 losses this week. The RR couldn't be more ridiculous.

What are you saying though - that none of Nalbandian, Ljubicic or Roddick should go through?

Let's be honest, the groups were top heavy. Red Group was loaded, Gold Group not so.

Galathea
11-17-2006, 12:13 AM
My previous post is not about David/Ivan/Andy, it is about the RR system. The system allows a player with 2 losses to be a semifinalist/winner of the tournament. It's ridiculous. IMO, if you lost once, not to mention twice, you should go home.

I think they're planning RR with 3 players group, right? That way you can lose only one game. The problem with this group of 4 is what happened with this red group: one player with 3 victories and the other 3 winning and losing in this way. Groups and then elimination by one match.
It's weird to see it in tennis but, it's the way the WC of soccer, voley, basket, etc are played. I don't find it that ridiculous. Not a fan of this in tennis, except some cases.
The key is the number of people in each group... with 4 players? yes, you can have this case: losing 2 winning 1. With 3? it should be more logic :rolleyes:

The theory or justification? this RR in tournaments with a FEW players, replaces the advantage of playing against people from the qualy or the bye, by allowing you the chance of losing one game...
And of course, the no official explanation: MONEY!!! ;)

RickDaStick
11-17-2006, 12:41 AM
Ljubicic now speaks out

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=tennisNews&storyid=2006-11-16T172952Z_01_PEK103646_RTRIDST_0_SPORT-TENNIS-MASTERS-LJUBICIC-PICTURE.XML&src=rss

SHANGHAI, Nov 16 (Reuters) - Ivan Ljubicic said he was reserving judgement on proposed round robin play at ATP tournaments next year after going out of the Masters Cup on Thursday at the expense of a player he had already beaten.

The Croatian had the same 1-2 record in the group stage of the tournament as David Nalbandian but the Argentine, who lost their encounter on Tuesday, went through to the last four on sets.

"It is weird that you see the guy who you beat and he's in the semi-final," said the world number four, who lost 7-6 6-4 to Roger Federer in his final game.

The ATP plans to test round robin play at selected tournaments next year and, while the groups will have three rather than the four players at the Masters Cup, the potential for three-way ties will still exist.

"I'm not delighted with the project, not at all," Ljubicic said.

this quote was taking out of content. Ljubo said its weird to see a guy you beat in the semifinal but he deserved it and also said he is also happy for Nalbandian who has had a rough year and a lot of injuries and said the dave played today he deserved the semis.

Merton
11-17-2006, 02:31 AM
So far it looks like there will not be many RR tournaments in 2007, so the change is marginal. The worst thing is that they kill 5 set finals in ATP tournaments, supposedly for the well being of the players. Some of those in the past have been among the best matches in history, but it is easier to have a 3-set final in Rome than rescheduling Hamburg so that it does not follow Rome right away.

Merton
11-17-2006, 02:34 AM
Mr Disney could open his mouth and circumnavigate the world 20x over in a balloon with all his hot air.

Of course make cosmetic changes to make it like you're doing something while not adressing the major issues.

Cosmetic changes represent an easier way to chase a compensation bonus than real changes that could create conflicts between players and tournament organizers.

Action Jackson
11-17-2006, 02:35 AM
Cosmetic changes represent an easier way to chase a compensation bonus than real changes that could create conflicts between players and tournament organizers.

How silly of me not to realise this. I thought Disney cared about the sport.

Merton
11-17-2006, 02:39 AM
How silly of me not to realise this. I thought Disney cared about the sport.

I am sure he does, he just makes sure that the sport cares about him too:lol:

JustmeUK
11-17-2006, 02:44 AM
Not a fan of this in tennis, except some cases.
The key is the number of people in each group... with 4 players? yes, you can have this case: losing 2 winning 1. With 3? it should be more logic :rolleyes:



With 3 it could be worse. A beats B. B beats C. C beats A. everyone has 1 win and 1 loss. RR in an individual sport sucks.

Action Jackson
11-18-2006, 09:19 AM
Comments from big Ivan.

IVAN LJUBICIC: Well, I was never for Round Robin, but the problem -- the difference between ATP Round Robin and this Round Robin and the ATP was gonna have a group of three players. So this is not gonna happen.

So he thinks.