DNC, GOP Conventions, Presidential elections + more. Palin's Daughter Pregnant :eek: [Archive] - Page 6 - MensTennisForums.com

DNC, GOP Conventions, Presidential elections + more. Palin's Daughter Pregnant :eek:

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Pfloyd
02-12-2008, 12:32 AM
It's been a loooong while since I've updated this thread, and what better moment to do so than in a historic presidential capaign on the democratic side.

Both Clinton and Obama can make history in Novemeber, so...if you have anything to say, predictions for tommorow's primaries or looking forward to crucial states such as Ohio and Texas, feel free to post your opinions here.

Cheers! :)

Federerhingis
02-12-2008, 01:38 AM
Yeah, but Hilary is the big preliminary favorite, according to the political experts of MSNBC.

Don't trust MSNBC, for as good a name they may have, you can't fully trust them. It's like all sorts of information and it's sources some sources are more reliable than others and MSNBC while they are a pretty good information source, yes they are pretty reliable too, but I wouldn't trust them 100%.

In my personal opionion neither Hillary nor Obama will be President of the USA. I am no expert, nor am I politically involved, but intuition tells me neither will win. The Republican candidates are a lot more appealing in the surface, I just don't think that the american society is ready for a woman president and Obama is just too young.

Of the two I do think Hillary would make the better prsident and she's more appealing to me than Barack.

Pfloyd
02-12-2008, 03:42 AM
Don't trust MSNBC, for as good a name they may have, you can't fully trust them. It's like all sorts of information and it's sources some sources are more reliable than others and MSNBC while they are a pretty good information source, yes they are pretty reliable too, but I wouldn't trust them 100%.

In my personal opionion neither Hillary nor Obama will be President of the USA. I am no expert, nor am I politically involve, but intuition tells me neither will win. The Republican candidates are a lot more appealing in the surface, I just don't think that the american society is ready for a woman president and Obama is just too young.

Of the two I do think Hillary would make the better prsident and she's more appealing to me than Barack.

John F. Kennedy was younger than Obama is when elected, he was pretty darn good.

Clinton is a good political machine, but she lacks charisma and her financial support from washington lobyists is of great concern to me.

I have no doubt that she would do a good job as president, is she can manage to get elected. The Clinton's, both of them have the right mindset, in my opinion for how the future of America should turn out.

But I honestly think that if elected, Obama could do amazing things. I really do think that his charisma can reach out to republicans and help him pass good legislation.

I think Obama is a great, great icon, and if he should lose this race, which is dead even, I think America would have lost a great opportunity.

However, I also think that Hilary would be waaaay better than Bush or than any other republican in the field. But one thing is pretty certain, I believe she is more of a polorizing figure than Obama.

We'll see, but things sure do look interesting in politics.....it's been a while since politics has been this cool, imho.

Federerhingis
02-12-2008, 04:14 AM
I agree with most of what you said, however I don't know, I deep down believe conservative america is not ready for an African American president. Yes race still matters however sad that may sound.

I know Barack is very smart and charismatic, but one can't buy too much on charisma. This could just be one more ploy to win votes and gain appeal. Who knows?

You seem to be politically involved and sound very excited about the political state of things in America. Good for you, I too am excited, because sometime this year I should become officially a US citizen, hopefully I'l get to vote and undertake on one of the inalienable rights of becoming a US citizen.

This political journey sure seems interesting no doubt. :wavey:

By the way are you really located in Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) I was born in the Dominican Republic. ;)

Martian Jenya
02-12-2008, 04:25 AM
I say NO to the New World Order !

Jim Jones
02-16-2008, 03:07 PM
I agree with most of what you said, however I don't know, I deep down believe conservative america is not ready for an African American president. Yes race still matters however sad that may sound.

I know Barack is very smart and charismatic, but one can't buy too much on charisma. This could just be one more ploy to win votes and gain appeal. Who knows?

You seem to be politically involved and sound very excited about the political state of things in America. Good for you, I too am excited, because sometime this year I should become officially a US citizen, hopefully I'l get to vote and undertake on one of the inalienable rights of becoming a US citizen.

This political journey sure seems interesting no doubt. :wavey:

By the way are you really located in Santo Domingo (Dominican Republic) I was born in the Dominican Republic. ;)
what do you mean that conservative America is not ready for a black leader. You mean liberal countries or other conservative ones have minorities as leaders? If so then how come there has not been a black or muslim Scandinavian leader?

Federerhingis
02-16-2008, 03:43 PM
what do you mean that conservative America is not ready for a black leader. You mean liberal countries or other conservative ones have minorities as leaders? If so then how come there has not been a black or muslim Scandinavian leader?


That's my point, he will lose many votes because the big majority of the conservatives won't vote for him. Hence why most likely he wont become president. Hillary too is not that much more appealing to the conservatives, I don't see any of the two dems winning; nonetheless, Hillary has more experience and seems like a bit more likely to win but not by much.

Sparko1030
02-19-2008, 02:46 PM
There are plenty of people who won't vote for Hilary just because she's Hilary-its not fair but its true. A lot of men are simply threatened by her. (I'm proud to say my husband is NOT one of those and he is a strong Hilary supporter but he is definalty one of the few...) I think both face obstabcles because of gender/minority group reasons but I think Obama has a better chance-he's got that oratory thing going and that can sway a lot of people. Bill had it, RR had it, JFK had it-don't underestimate the power of a moving speech-even in this jaded age.

Anyway, a couple of primaries today but I doubt it will settle anything yet. :shrug:

Pfloyd
08-28-2008, 07:58 PM
I'm seeing all these US politics thread when mine was the original one.

:(

Anyway time for a BUMP.

And what an exciting time for US politics, Obama was nominated as the first African American candidate for presidency in the history of the US.

Clinton gave a great speech. Biden was ok, though he was criticised by some commentators as giving a bland speech.

Still, with all leaning towards the Dem's favor, the race is scary close.

Pfloyd
08-28-2008, 08:01 PM
Current electoral map looks like this:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Pngs/Aug28.png

Pfloyd
08-28-2008, 08:02 PM
Dark Blue is Strong for Dem's
Light Blue is Weak for Dem's
White and Blue is barely Dem's
White is Tied

The same is true for the Republicans.

This map is subject to change almost weekly.

Pfloyd
08-28-2008, 08:04 PM
Have to wait for Obama's speech tonight which should be magnificent.

And then, after that, it will be interesting to see how the Republicans do in the convention.

I hear both Bush and Cheney are giving speeches in the Republican conventions, not too sure how much this will help McCain's image, though financially it makes some sense....

Pfloyd
08-28-2008, 09:06 PM
Here is how the senate is looking at the moment:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Senate/Pngs/Aug28-s.png

El Legenda
08-28-2008, 09:50 PM
Missouri will wake up and get behide Barack. :yeah: of the states 5.8+million people. 3million live in St.louis and 1.5million in KC...both which Obama dominated in the primaries....Obama may have some trouble is the southern part of the state, where much of tools live. Springfield with about 400,000 in the metro area is leaning towards McSame..but a lot of college students live in springfield..

Pfloyd
08-28-2008, 09:57 PM
Yes Missouri will go to Obama.

Florida is going to be tough, and so is Ohio.

Maybe Biden will help Obama in Ohio, but we still have to see who McCain chooses as his VP, which is probably going to be stated tonight after Obama's speech.

One has to remain cautiously optimistic in this election.

Pfloyd
08-29-2008, 12:05 AM
Not wanting to hype his speech up, its good to be reminded that 45 years ago this day, Martin Luther King gave his great "I Have a Dream" Speech.

Let's see how Obama fairs.

Pfloyd
08-29-2008, 12:05 AM
I'll also post McCains VP here, so stay tuned for discussion, or argument :lol:

El Legenda
08-29-2008, 03:49 AM
what a speech :worship:

Sparko1030
08-29-2008, 05:39 AM
:woohoo: Obama!!!

Great speech, facing McCain/Republican criticism head on. Finally, a canidate who won't just take the cheap shots but will not only answer them, but throw them back in their face! Yeah, I'm a little exicted :o :lol:

As far as that map goes, in the last poll I saw, Obama was pulling ahead here in Minnesota. And according to the same poll, if Pawlenty is chosen as McCain's VP, the gap will widen :rolls:

Pfloyd
08-29-2008, 02:16 PM
Yeah he nailed that Speech, even some Republicans said it was rock solid. McCain's VP will be chosen today, so it will be interesting, to say the least.

Pfloyd
08-29-2008, 02:18 PM
Just in:

CNN’s John King confirms John McCain will not pick Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty to be his running mate.

Pfloyd
08-29-2008, 03:56 PM
McCain VP Picked!

Alaska´s Sarah Palin, will be John McCain´s VP!

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/palin.republican.vp.candidate/index.html

Pfloyd
08-29-2008, 06:03 PM
And of course, the Dems slammed Obama with the VP choice:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

But who knows? This might work or it could be a shot in the foot for John McCain, we'll just have to wait and see.

Sparko1030
08-29-2008, 06:46 PM
Surprising choice for McCain, I thought our gov was going to be the choice (and it would have been some consolation if McCain wins-we would get rid of Pawlenty :lol: ) I suppose she was chosen to get the female vote but hopefully we women will vote issues, not gender. And I predict, being such newcomer to politics, Bidden will trounse her in the debates :devil:

Could be a genuis choice, or a dunce choice, time will tell :shrug:

Pfloyd
08-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Surprising choice for McCain, I thought our gov was going to be the choice (and it would have been some consolation if McCain wins-we would get rid of Pawlenty :lol: ) I suppose she was chosen to get the female vote but hopefully we women will vote issues, not gender. And I predict, being such newcomer to politics, Bidden will trounse her in the debates :devil:

Could be a genuis choice, or a dunce choice, time will tell :shrug:

Exactly.

Democrats can accuse her of being "inexperienced", we she may be. But Republicans will flip that argument onto Obama.

I still expect both Obama and Biden to destroy there opponents in the debates.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 01:11 AM
I disagree with the notion that Missouri will go for Obama, as a matter of fact, I find myself at odds with the concept of any of the state located in the industrial belt supporting him, however in this specific case my intuition is validated both according to the polls which show McCain winning Missouri by a margin of seven points (RealClearPolitics.com), coupled along with the fact that I've actually lived for a relatively brief period in Kansas City, which is not to be confused with any of the college towns or St. Louis. Now I'm back in Manhattan. Thank god.

The first thing that I noticed when driving through St. Louis was the incredibly large number of minorities, which surprised me given the geography of the state, but the rest of the state has a different atmosphere. The southern region of the state which supported Gov. Matt Blunt and gave him the victory in what was a closely contested gubernatorial race against a formidable opponent in Claire McCaskill, is the part of the state that undoubtedly will vote for Sen. John McCain. One could describe Missouri as a state suffering from an incurable geographic schizophrenia, a factor that helped it gain national recognition as a bellwether state (Missouri has voted for the winner in every U.S. Presidential election since 1904 with the only exception coming in 1956).

Missouri must be divided into different sections:
Southern Missouri - Cape Giradeau (Rush Limbaugh's hometown), Branson, Joplin -- this part of the state is much more "confederate" as there is a strong passion for what generally would be regarded as conservative views. These people would identify more with people living in Arkansas or Georgia.
Cities leaning right - Kansas City, Independence, Lee's Summit - Just look at the demographics and you'll understand why, I can personally vouch for suburban Kansas City (north of the river) and trust me, these are generally fiscal conservatives and evangelicals, they will vote in huge numbers for Sen. McCain. It needs to be noted that Kansas City is probably the most western of the cities located in Missouri, while St. Louis is the most eastern of the cities located in Missouri, culturally speaking. Such is reflected in the differences in voting habits of the two respective cities.
Other cities - St. Louis, Columbia, Springfield - these are places where high numbers of college students and minorities are located, they are for the most part liberal and thus such is reflected in their voting habits.

The reason for which I've provided this painfully long analyzation of the varying demographics in Missouri is because I feel that if Obama is able to win Missouri, he may be able to win the election. He did win the primaries by the skin of a hair against Sen. Hillary Clinton, but that was a Democratic primary and not a General Election. Personally, I believe that he'll lose Missouri in a landslide. I also think that he'll lose Pennsylvania, which is a state that shares much in common with Missouri -- both states have two sizable cities with notable urban areas to speak of in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Kansas City and St. Louis. Kansas City and Pittsburgh are more likely to go conservative; Philadelphia and St. Louis are almost always going to go liberal. Both cities are drastically different with respect to the cultural divide between the suburban area and the urban area, last but not least, older voters (conservative) have a history of being more reliable to actually show up to the polls and vote. Obama's Missouri coalition is built on college kids living on cold pizza and beer; McCain's coalition is built on veterans, businessmen and evangelicals. You do the math.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 02:12 AM
We'll see.

Sure you can speak of demographics a tendencies, and I'm not one to refute your points one by one, it's just too damn long man.

But still, it has to be said that McCaskill supports Obama, and she's quite popular in the state. It also has to be mentioned that the hope is that Biden will draw in some of the "Clinton" voters, and maybe some frustrated Republicans as well.

Missouri is not any easy state for Dems by any means. But the debates are still to come up, and we still have to wait and see how the Republican convention, and more important, I think, how McCain's VP will be recieved by the public.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 02:36 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/29/reportcard.palin/index.html

CNN's "report card" for Palin.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 03:21 AM
McCaskill's gubernatorial ambitions were crushed by conservative Missourians that rejected her extremist agenda and her corrupt husband that enjoys swindling money in his spare time.

Johnny Groove
08-30-2008, 03:22 AM
McCaskill's gubernatorial ambitions were crushed by conservative Missourians that rejected her extremist agenda and her corrupt husband that enjoys swindling money in his spare time.

I see no reason they shouldnt support him if that is his hobby :lol:

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 03:44 AM
McCaskill's gubernatorial ambitions were crushed by conservative Missourians that rejected her extremist agenda and her corrupt husband that enjoys swindling money in his spare time.

Let's try to keep the topic of conversation to issues at hand and try (when possible) to avoid stereotypes.

Let's try to keep this thread as neutral as possible.

I'll be the first to admit it hasn't been this (neutral) when becoming a chat thread, but we have enough bias and misleading statistics as it is in daily media.

:)

prima donna
08-30-2008, 03:47 AM
Stereotypes ? It's factual. McCaskill's husband is a proven money swindler and tax evader. I'm not being partisan; I'm citing the facts.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 03:56 AM
Stereotypes ? It's factual. McCaskill's husband is a proven money swindler and tax evader. I'm not being partisan; I'm citing the facts.

You probably are right. And right now I don't want to go to every single senator or member of the house that's either a Democrat or a Republican and start looking for facts or clues of corruption.

You will find plenty on both sides.

Plus it's a sad but true thing that for evry fact presented by one party member, there is another fact that contradicts that one.

It's quite easy to prove others wrong when you argue correctly, proven that you do some research of course.

But if you want information fitting your beliefs, you'll find plenty of it.

You can also mention McCain's wife illegal drug mishaps and how that affects the image of McCain as a whole.

You can also talk about Cheney and Haliburton's stock.

You can talk about Elliot Spitzer, or mention Jimmy Carter's disaster as a president, in general terms.

You can also praise Reagan for his tax cuts and charisma, or criticise him for supporting dictators and increasing the national debt.

And you will find facts pointing otherwise...

It becomes circular and pointless, which is why I think its better to talk about current policies for both candidates, and try to limit these attacks somewhat.

Again, not saying you are wrong, though I still have to research that a bit more.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 04:00 AM
My point is that Missourians are hardly going to allow themselves to be influenced by a woman that married into corruption, thus rendering her support of Barack Obama useless.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 04:03 AM
My point is that Missourians are hardly going allow themselves to be influenced by a woman that married into corruption, thus rendering her support of Barack Obama useless.

It may be true.

But a lot has to be said about George W. Bush too, and he's supporting McCain, that surely has to hurt McCain's chances somewhat, even in Missouri?

Bush is not exactly popular with many Republicans nation-wide.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 04:16 AM
Florida is one I can surely grant as an almost certain win for McCain.

North Carolina is favoring McCain, but it could be somewhat interesting.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 04:24 AM
Is Bush running for a 3rd-term ? Did I miss something ?

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 04:28 AM
Is Bush running for a 3rd-term ? Did I miss something ?

No, of course he isn't. But he's going to speak on the RNC.

It's innevetable that these two being in the same event will draw negative connotations.

And McCain has simialar views to that of Bush, especially on the war issue, among a few others.

But I would'nt go so far as to saying McCain would be the third George W. Bush, even though I disagree with most of his views.

Sparko1030
08-30-2008, 05:45 AM
I would go so far as to say McCain is now embracing so much of Bush's policies that it would be a a3rd term but prima donna and I have gone that route already and I will not particpate in another go around :lol: I will only point out McCain's voting record- which is an objective statistic- and he voted with Bush 90% of the time. It certainly looks like we could expect more of the same if he becomes president :shrug: I'm glad the dems are stressing that. :yeah:

Sparko1030
08-30-2008, 05:50 AM
It will be interesting to see what happens in New Orleans with Gustav heading its way. I sincerely hope it downgrades by that time but it still will be a reminder of the huge failing of the Bush administration to respond to Katrina during the Republicans big party. We can also see if they are prepared this time....

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 05:53 AM
It will be interesting to see what happens in New Orleans with Gustav heading its way. I sincerely hope it downgrades by that time but it still be a reminder of the huge failing of the Bush administration to respond to Katrina during the Republicans big party. We can also see if they are prepared this time....

If they are prepared, it will boost Republicans image somewhat.

But surely no election ought to be decided by a second tragedy of such magnitue.

There is still some chance that Gustav will change its course, let's hope.

Its not as if the national government has too much money to spare at the moment.

Sparko1030
08-30-2008, 07:38 AM
Yes, let us hope it changes course. :)

I finally had a chance to get some info about McCain's VP choice. She is very conservative, was actually a Buchanan supporter at one time-can't get much more conservative than that :lol: so I doubt her choice was aimed at getting Hilary supporters-who overall are well versed on issues and definalty liberal.

Choosing her would seem to be McCain's way to get the conservative base fired up-although now they have lost their "he's not ready to be president" claim on Obama. Palin has been a mayor of a relatively small town and gov. of Alaska for less than 2 yrs-less experience than Obama and zilch foreign policy experience. Yet she would be, as they say, a heartbeat away from the presidency-and McCain is 72 . So choosing her should stop the attacks on Obama's qualifications, and if it doens't, I guess they had better be ready for the same criticisms of her.

David Gergan, from CNN, a pundit who I repsect, says he thinks McCain choosing Palin as his VP, is the biggest gamble he (Gergan) has ever seen in politics. Again, time will tell....

Sparko1030
08-30-2008, 07:52 AM
Hearing more on Palin....against abortion even in cases of inscest and ****. THat goes too far even for many who oppose abortion as a form of birth control. No way will she bring Hillary supporters into the McCain camp. If they had been going for those voters, he would have chosen Leiberman, but he chose to try and rally the ultra conservative base instead-obvioulsy can't please both. I hope moderates take this choice seriously and reject the McCain/Palin ticket.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 04:20 PM
Hearing more on Palin....against abortion even in cases of inscest and ****. THat goes too far even for many who oppose abortion as a form of birth control. No way will she bring Hillary supporters into the McCain camp. If they had been going for those voters, he would have chosen Leiberman, but he chose to try and rally the ultra conservative base instead-obvioulsy can't please both. I hope moderates take this choice seriously and reject the McCain/Palin ticket.

Yeah, like you say, I doubt that Palin will draw even a small fraction of the most ardent Hillary Clinton supporters.

I really don't know how much Republicans are going to be energized with this choice. There were much better qualified candidates that fit McCain views and argument against Obama, but he took this path.

Will be especially interesting to see the VP's debating.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 04:32 PM
RNC sneak peak:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26458633#26458633

Sparko1030
08-30-2008, 05:03 PM
Yeah, the Exel Energy Center is great, that why a big :ras: to the RNC for picking it-now we have to see the American Idol concert at the Target Center instead , and its not nearly as good a venue :awww: One more reason for me not to vote Republican :lol:

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 05:08 PM
Yeah, the Exel Energy Center is great, that why a big :ras: to the RNC for picking it-now we have to see the American Idol concert at the Target Center instead , and its not nearly as good a venue :awww: One more reason for me not to vote Republican :lol:

Yeah, they want to use the stage to seem more connected with the Amerrican people :rolleyes:

Sparko1030
08-30-2008, 07:42 PM
Good luck to them :hatoff: :rolls: :haha: they will need more than that to connect with the American people. How they can call Obama an elitist when its McCain with the millionaire wife and 7 homes I will never understand. Of course, Bush sold himself as a regular guy too even though his life had been anything but regular. :shrug: I will give it to the Republicans, they don't let reality get in the way of their message what so ever. ;) and are able to sell that message to the public.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 07:54 PM
Good luck to them :hatoff: :rolls: :haha: they will need more than that to connect with the American people. How they can call Obama an elitist when its McCain with the millionaire wife and 7 homes I will never understand. Of course, Bush sold himself as a regular guy too even though his life had been anything but regular. :shrug: I will give it to the Republicans, they don't let reality get in the way of their message what so ever. ;) and are able to sell that message to the public.

Sad is the public that accepts these messages, especially the way the country has been managed the last 8 years and many seem to support McCain.

Sure not everybody has to like or trust Obama. But I suspect Racism will go against him in a strong way with many voter as well.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 08:04 PM
Sad is the public that accepts these messages, especially the way the country has been managed the last 8 years and many seem to support McCain.

Sure not everybody has to like or trust Obama. But I suspect Racism will go against him in a strong way with many voter as well.
I find it interesting that people are misinformed enough to associate Sen. John McCain with conservative values, as if he were going to rival President Reagan in that department. He exemplifies the very meaning of a moderate, as for Sen. Obama, a lot of people disagree with him from an ideological standpoint, as well as dislike his character. I'm one of those people. I genuinely dislike him. I think he's the quintessential politician and consider his campaign to be one built on sheer narcissism. Racism plays no role in my decision, as I would fully support Alan Keyes, Condolezza Rice or Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas in any of their endeavors. It's Obama's unabashed narcissism that has alienated so many voters, not to mention he's just not qualified for the job.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 08:17 PM
Pro-Life

Pro-War

Reduction of Coorporate Tax

Against Universal Healthcare

Is against sex education and birth control

Does not support state sponsered medical marijauna

Supports the Patriot Act

Opposes federal minimum wage

And yet he's "moderate"?

Yeah he may not be crazy right like Bush or Reagan, but he is by no means a moderate.

He is a conservative.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 08:22 PM
Pro-Life

Pro-War

Reduction of Coorporate Tax

Against Universal Healthcare

Is against sex education and birth control

Does not support state sponsered medical marijauna

Supports the Patriot Act

Opposes federal minimum wage

And yet he's "moderate"?

Yeah he may not be crazy right like Bush or Reagan, but he is by no means a moderate.

He is a conservative.
How about the fact that he's in favor of providing millions of illegal aliens with amnesty while most in the Republican Party would like to see them expelled from this country ? Deport them. Why did Sen. McCain work together with Sen. Ted Kennedy in writing legislation that would have given them a license to cheat the system and get away with it ? John McCain is center-right, as are most Americans, therefore based on our standards he's a moderate. As for his opposition to minimum wage, he voted in favor of increasing it to $7.25. He's also attacked the religious right by labeling them as xenophobic agents of intolerance that are a detriment to the Republican movement as a whole. Sounds like a moderate to me.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 08:33 PM
How about the fact that he's in favor of providing millions of illegal aliens with amnesty while most in the Republican Party would like to see them expelled from this country ? Deport them. Why did Sen. McCain work together with Sen. Ted Kennedy in writing legislation that would have given them a license to cheat the system and get away with it ? John McCain is center-right, as are most Americans, therefore based on our standards he's a moderate. As for his opposition to minimum wage, he voted in favor of increasing it to $7.25. He's also attacked the religious right by labeling them as xenophobic agents of intolerance that are a detriment to the Republican movement as a whole. Sounds like a moderate to me.

As for the minimal wage, we have conflicting info:

"He also voted in favor of maintaining the filibuster against a bill to increase the federal minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $7.25.[78]"

Although Obama is a liberal, as McCain is a coservative, he does have quite a few values that differ from your typical democrat:

He believes in lowering Healthcare by $2500 a year, instead of forcing Universal healthcare.

Obama is against NAFTA.

Obama wants to increase Federal funding of Faith based programs.

Obama agrees with the Death penalty

Originally voted for the patriot act as along as certain privacies were respected.

So you see, it's too easy to categorize candidates as extremes, but when you look at the facts, they both have exceptions to the ideology of the party.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 08:35 PM
As for the minimal wage, we have conflicting info:

"He also voted in favor of maintaining the filibuster against a bill to increase the federal minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $7.25.[78]"

Although Obama is a liberal, as McCain is a coservative, he does have quite a few values that differ from your typical democrat:

He believes in lowering Healthcare by $2500 a year, instead of forcing Universal healthcare.

Obama is against NAFTA.

Obama wants to increase Federal funding of Faith based programs.

Obama agrees with the Death penalty

Originally voted for the patriot act as along as certain privacies were respected.

So you see, it's too easy to categorize candidates as extremes, but when you look at the facts, they both have exceptions to the ideology of the party.

Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Feb 2007)
Voted NO on raising the minimum wage to $7.25 rather than $6.25. (Mar 2005)

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 08:43 PM
Alright, I stand corrected on the issue.

Still dosent make him a moderate IMO.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 08:45 PM
You're entitled to your own views; be they right or wrong.

Betty
08-30-2008, 08:47 PM
nice discussion pity i'm losing on my english
ciao Dante,come stai :):hug:

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 08:48 PM
You're entitled to your own views; be they right or wrong.

We all are.

So are you.

That much is an accepted freedom in most of the world.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 08:51 PM
You're entitled to your own views; be they right or wrong.

Just curious:

Are you a life long Republican?

Does religion affect your political views/ leanings?

and

Do you believe the US will maintain its standing as the sole super-power for more than 40 years?

:)

prima donna
08-30-2008, 08:52 PM
nice discussion pity i'm losing on my english
ciao Dante,come stai :):hug:
Bé, diciamo che potrei stare meglio. Come vanno le cose da parte tua ? Nice picture of your son, he's growing at the rate of a beanstalk.

Betty
08-30-2008, 08:54 PM
Bé, diciamo che potrei stare meglio. Come vanno le cose da parte tua ? Nice picture of your son, he's growing at the rate of a beanstalk.

diciamo che anche per me..potrebbe andare meglio
thk..he is very tall for his age

sorry i think i'm putu out of the discussion but it's a life i dont see u:)
saiche secondo me sarai un bravo avvocato...ci sei portato:yeah:

prima donna
08-30-2008, 09:07 PM
Just curious:

Are you a life long Republican?

Does religion affect your political views/ leanings?

and

Do you believe the US will maintain its standing as the sole super-power for more than 40 years?

:)
I'm a fiscal conservative before I'm a social conservative. Religion doesn't play any role in the way I vote, nor does partisanship. If there were a nominee that could promise to manage our national debt and bring us back to the days when we had a surplus rather than a deficit, I'd contemplate voting for a Democrat. I just don't think Barack Obama fits the mold of Bill Clinton. In terms of having a firm understanding of the free market and its functions, his policies simply fall short. I disagree with Democrats on almost every single issue ranging from global warming to gay marriage, fact is, if they could deliver on even a quarter of the things they've promised, I would be tempted to switch sides, but most of it is pandering to certain demographics. For instance, Barack Obama is proposing another stimulus check for Americans in wake of the growing rate of inflation which for many Americans has spiraled out of control. That's really great and all, but it's not going to happen. A basic understanding of checks and balances would assist voters in understanding that something of that nature would never be approved. The Executive Branch plays a limited role in the functions of government. If people were really interested in change, they'd start by supporting competent officials at the congressional level, thus ensuring adequate representation in Washington D.C. I also find this class warfare to be counterproductive, there is now an attack being waged against oil companies, as if taxing them would be the solution. Middle-class Americans would just find themselves making up for the losses of such companies by seeing an increase in the rate of regressive taxes. More pandering.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 09:10 PM
Alright.

Interesting.

But you do have certain social conservative qualities.

Agree with you on the government branches argument.

I think Bush has extended presidential powers too much, IMHO.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 09:23 PM
Explain to me why the overwhelmingly Democratic majority of Congress has a 9% approval rating while Bush's approval rating is somewhere between 30-35% ? If Democrats disapprove of the way in which he's governed, why haven't they slammed down the gavel by opposing his agenda ? I'm not that socially conservative, I just have no interest in promoting gay marriage or global warming, although I would like to see further research done on embryonic stem cells. Not quite sure how President Bush would go about extending his "presidential powers." What would be the purpose of having checks and balances ? Why would our government be divided up into the judicial branch, legislative branch and executive branch if a single given individual could simply override the entire system ?

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 09:28 PM
I agree congress is crap, and Pelosi has been horrible.

But at the same time the Democrats in congress are not of enough volume to pass the laws they want, and over turning vetoes are also a problem.

But they have not been as agressive as they should've been with Bush.

I'm also firmly against having so many conservatives judges in the Supreme court, and if McCain wins he would about 2 or 3 more.

I belive the Supreme court should be roughly 50/50 in party ideology.

Having two branches under Republican Control does complicate things for Democrats.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 09:36 PM
I agree congress is crap, and Pelosi has been horrible.

But at the same time the Democrats in congress are not of enough volume to pass the laws they want, and over turning vetoes are also a problem.

But they have not been as agressive as they should've been with Bush.

I'm also firmly against having so many conservatives judges in the Supreme court, and if McCain wins he would about 2 or 3 more.

I belive the Supreme court should be roughly 50/50 in party ideology.

Having two branches under Republican Control does complicate things for Democrats.
Nancy Pelosi has recently become a lightning rod for criticism, starting with her snipe at the catholic doctrine which states that life begins at the moment of conception, which consequently drew criticism from archbishops and priests by whom she has been reprimanded. The more important issue, however, is her opposition to off-shore drilling. An absolute refusal to even allow for a vote. American people are hurting at the pumps and this is only worsening their cause.

Sen. McCain's gradual climb in the polls began when instead of going on vacation, a group of Republicans stayed in Washington discussing legislation that would enable us to utilize our domestic resources, meanwhile the Democratic majority had adjourned and turned the lights off on them.

Congress should bear just as much responsibility as President Bush.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 09:40 PM
I think Bush bears a bit more responsibility than Congress, slightly due to circumstance and the numbers of members they have, but as I stated they have not been vocal enough against Bush.

I'd give Bush the slight edge in the Blame:

56-44% roughly.

But yes both branches have done little to help the country.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 09:43 PM
Our government has failed us. It's time for change. That's precisely why I'll be pulling the lever for Senator John McCain and Governor Sarah Palin on November 4th.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 09:49 PM
You Rep's should change the motto "Time to make a Real Difference" instead of "Time for Change" THAT was Obama's motto, fact.

:D

prima donna
08-30-2008, 09:52 PM
Copyright infringement! Sen. Clinton owns exclusive rights to the whole theme of real solutions. Gee, maybe that's why I actually took her presidential campaign seriously.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 10:05 PM
"Real Solutions" and "Real Difference" don't sound the same.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 10:08 PM
"Real Solutions" and "Real Difference" don't sound the same.
Hillary Clinton owns exclusive rights to the whole theme of being substantive and detailed in one's outline of what the country should be. Substance is forbidden. B. Hussein said so.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 10:12 PM
Untrue.

All you have to do is go here:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

All the plans for all the issues. Not just words, that attack simply isn't true.

I see you threw in the "Hussein" name as a stinger, hmmm.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 10:14 PM
Where is the money going to come from to finance these ideas ? From the pockets of taxpayers, right ?

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 10:18 PM
Yeah, from those making over 250,000 a year.

Sorry to say that its hard to fund things without taxes.

Yes you can cut bad government programs are ask for even more loans and whatnot, but taxes are necessary.

The US has it (very) good compared to the Scandinavian countries anyway in terms of taxes.

But really, its better to read the whole plan than to say the same old rhetoric.

What, you think McCain is going to do magic with the economy and wage all types of wars?

Even he addmitted he's no expert in economic issues.

But I think Obama will do just fine.

A brief glimpse of what he can do has already been shown by the way he managed his campaign and all the money he rose.

Might do something simialar with the US economy. ;)

prima donna
08-30-2008, 10:22 PM
The economy manages itself by enabling individuals with varying amounts of knowledge in each sector to make decisions, at least that's how the free market functions. Not quite sure what any politician would have to do with the success or failure of it.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 10:30 PM
FDR and the New Deal sound like anything to you?

prima donna
08-30-2008, 10:42 PM
We could actually find ourselves in a depression if the government were to intervene. As of late, Democratic ones included, presidents have been reluctant to involve themselves in the affairs of the private sector. We're drifting off topic, the idea is simple; you can't tax your way out of a recession. Imposing new taxes is about the most irresponsible thing to do in a recession. Moreover, cuts across the board would be more appropriate. We can't afford any of Sen. Obama's ideas, there just isn't enough money left over. I don't see what John McCain's understanding of the economy really has to do with anything. It doesn't matter whether he understands it, the market will take care of itself.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 10:47 PM
I don't think so, and I think that individuals can make a difference, Obama is decreasing taxes for the middle class, only increasing them for the wealthy.

But government created programs, such as those for alternative energy can create 5 million new jobs.

Government has the potential to increase the availability of work and hence pump more money into the economy.

Given a tax break, sure people save more money, but most of that money is used to cancel debt, not to pump it back into the market.

Reagan serves as a good example, he gave big tax cuts to most citizens which people were happy about, but the national debt also greatly increased.

Sometimes markets need government intervention.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 10:52 PM
So you're advocating income redistribution ? Reagan cut taxes across the board, not just for one select half of the financial bracket.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 10:59 PM
So you're advocating income redistribution ? Reagan cut taxes across the board, not just for one select half of the financial bracket.

Moderate income redistribution yes. But that would not be the only aspect towards solving the economy as a whole, it would be a step forward. You can hardly expect to get through tough times using easy solutions all the time. Things don't work like miracles all the time.

prima donna
08-30-2008, 11:02 PM
I don't agree with even moderate levels of income redistribution, sorry.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 11:04 PM
That's why there's differences in opinions and choices exist.

;)

prima donna
08-30-2008, 11:11 PM
That's why socialism ceased to exist.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 11:13 PM
Raise taxes a bit for the rich and you call that socialism?

Come on!

El Legenda
08-30-2008, 11:15 PM
http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx

that Palin pick did wonders for McSame.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 11:30 PM
:eek:

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 11:30 PM
I still expect the poll to be tighter once the RNC is over...

El Legenda
08-30-2008, 11:36 PM
there is nothing McSame can to do win this. his issues..well what are his issues..nobody knows...Obama just needs to play it safe rest of the way and in 65 days, he will be the president.

Pfloyd
08-30-2008, 11:40 PM
there is nothing McSame can to do win this. his issues..well what are his issues..nobody knows...Obama just needs to play it safe rest of the way and in 65 days, he will be the president.

I would'nt be as confident as you are.

I'm cautiously optimistic, but there's still that effect of those who are polled are asked if they would vote for a black man and they say "yes" for fear of being labeled a racist.

I think this effect will come into play come election time.

I think Obama will win, but by a narrow margin.

I was certain Kerry would win back in 04 and he lost....

Agreed Obama is amazing compared to Kerry, but I'd wait a bit more to claim any type of victory.

Sparko1030
08-31-2008, 05:40 AM
Yeah, it is looking good for Obama but I have thought a win was certain before only to be crushed by the reality of election night. :bigcry: I'm not counting my chickens yet :lol:

Let's see how the RNC goes and if McCain doesn't get much of a bump from it I will be a bit more optimistic :)

Pfloyd
08-31-2008, 04:32 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Pfloyd
08-31-2008, 04:33 PM
Gustav is going head on towards New Orleans, this may be a very, very harmful event for the city.

Pfloyd
09-01-2008, 06:04 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html

Pfloyd
09-01-2008, 06:04 PM
McCain's camp said they knew about this incident before McCain picked her as a VP pick.

I still think this will slightly hurt McCain's chances.

Sparko1030
09-01-2008, 07:13 PM
The people who are most likely to consider this immaterial are the more liberal voters, ones not likely to vote for McCain anyway. Not sure how the pious right wing will look at this.

Either way, its one more thing to get in the way of the the Repbulicans big party. Gustav has been downgraded which is good but it can still cause damage and its sounds like the they might shorten their convention.

What does suprise me is that McCain knew of this pregnancy when he asked her. Even if it dosen't affect how people vote, the media is the media and will go with this story (not because they are "liberal" but because it sells-that's capitalism folks ;) )

Pfloyd
09-01-2008, 07:42 PM
The only argument in which this case could be used for the republicans is the pro-life argument, but that wouldn't add voters to McCain that he already did not have.

Sparko1030
09-03-2008, 04:34 AM
:hatoff: to Joe Liberman. I just want to thank him for supporting McCain. What I caught of his speech (in between watching the Fernando/Roddick match anyway) was dull dull dull. He and Zell Miller can start an exclusive club of Dems recruited by the Republicans. (Zell was a much more exciting speaker though :devil:) Anyway, we can only hope Joe does for McCain what he did for Gore. :angel: I'm sure some of his Joementum will have to rub off on John :rolls: Too bad John wasn't allowed to choose him as his vp though, he may have been the first politcian to run as vp for both parties, but alas :shrug:

Alright, I'm done with the Joe jokes now... ;)

Pfloyd
09-03-2008, 03:25 PM
Lieberman :rolleyes:

The Bush Speech was also pretty funny. They also transitioned out of it very quickly. :lol: