NFL WEEK 4 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

NFL WEEK 4

callitasicit
09-25-2006, 06:19 PM
If you thought Week 3 was tough well take a gander at the games this week in the NFL. I hope many of you did well this week. I would have done a whole lot better if Kurt Warner didn't play on Sunday if you know what I mean. There are a few games that I like this week but not too many.

San Diego -2.5 at Baltimore
I am not overly confident on this one but the Chargers have looked awesome this year and are coming off a bye. Baltimore has looked incredible on defence and have impressed me as well. Something has to give here.

New England +6 at Cincinnati
Are you kidding me? I know the public loves the Bengals now but these are the Patriots! I anticipated the line to be around -3 for the Bengals but double that is a bargain. Don't overate the Bengals, they still have a weak run defence and Corey Dillion is back to his old stomping ground. I would love to know the Patriots record after losing a game in the last five years, I bet you it is pretty damn good!

Bears -3 over Seattle
Okay I will not waste my time on rationalizing this pick. The Bears on prime time against the Seahawks, did you see how poorly the Seattle defence looked in the second half of the Giants game? I don't need to explain anymore to you.

Packers Eagles over 46.5
What a high total huh? Well I don't think so both teams have struggled to stop offences from scoring a lot of points and this is on Monday night!! Eagles should win 38-31.

Good luck everyone!

flmmkrz
09-25-2006, 07:37 PM
If you thought Week 3 was tough well take a gander at the games this week in the NFL. I hope many of you did well this week. I would have done a whole lot better if Kurt Warner didn't play on Sunday if you know what I mean. There are a few games that I like this week but not too many.

San Diego -2.5 at Baltimore
I am not overly confident on this one but the Chargers have looked awesome this year and are coming off a bye. Baltimore has looked incredible on defence and have impressed me as well. Something has to give here.

New England +6 at Cincinnati
Are you kidding me? I know the public loves the Bengals now but these are the Patriots! I anticipated the line to be around -3 for the Bengals but double that is a bargain. Don't overate the Bengals, they still have a weak run defence and Corey Dillion is back to his old stomping ground. I would love to know the Patriots record after losing a game in the last five years, I bet you it is pretty damn good!

Bears -3 over Seattle
Okay I will not waste my time on rationalizing this pick. The Bears on prime time against the Seahawks, did you see how poorly the Seattle defence looked in the second half of the Giants game? I don't need to explain anymore to you.

Packers Eagles over 46.5
What a high total huh? Well I don't think so both teams have struggled to stop offences from scoring a lot of points and this is on Monday night!! Eagles should win 38-31.

Good luck everyone!

gl bro but I hate those picks. Sd has had a cakewalk of a sched and they get baltimore in baltimore and you gotta give up points???

NEs a dog cause they deserve to be. The bengals are that good. The pats are always the public play cause everyone believes they can at least keep it close. Dillon left last night with an arm injury, not a biggy Marones damn good but the pats record over the last 5 years means nothing to this year. Brady hasnt developed a good relationship with his wideouts yet and it leaves teams to focus on the run. Bengals in cincy, my numbers have the lines at -11 cincy so i'll likely take the bengals -6

I will admit my bias in this pick but are you kidding me when mentioning the 2nd half results of the ny game??? Did you see the score in the 1st half of the game with ny. Seattle took the rest of the game off. Everybody watching the game knew what seattle was going to do on offense all 2nd half, run on 1st, run on 2nd, pass on third if they got a first down great if not they wasted some time. Seattle shut it down at 45-0, even when ny scored it didn't scare the hawks the game was never in doubt. The hawks d when trying is top 5-6 in the league. Grossman had his fits with minny try a d thats as good but has an offense that puts up points, i'll take the points here as well most likely.

Pack/Eagles I wouldnt bet the totals till I got the weather reports as it could effect the result with it being an open air stadium.


So far the only play i've made is Cleveland over Oakland -2, I read the line came out at -1 so its being pounded, I had the browns -7 for my own lines before the real lines came out so if I liked them at -7 I love them at -2.

Vikes + the points might be a play for me as well but still looking into that more as I believe they should be giving points here but still researching.

Cincy maybe, Jax -3 possibly will confirm the rest of my plays later.

El Legenda
09-25-2006, 08:02 PM
The Saint Louis Rams of Saint Louis :lol: to kill The Detroit Lions of Detroit
31-17

callitasicit
09-25-2006, 08:35 PM
gl bro but I hate those picks. Sd has had a cakewalk of a sched and they get baltimore in baltimore and you gotta give up points???

NEs a dog cause they deserve to be. The bengals are that good. The pats are always the public play cause everyone believes they can at least keep it close. Dillon left last night with an arm injury, not a biggy Marones damn good but the pats record over the last 5 years means nothing to this year. Brady hasnt developed a good relationship with his wideouts yet and it leaves teams to focus on the run. Bengals in cincy, my numbers have the lines at -11 cincy so i'll likely take the bengals -6

I will admit my bias in this pick but are you kidding me when mentioning the 2nd half results of the ny game??? Did you see the score in the 1st half of the game with ny. Seattle took the rest of the game off. Everybody watching the game knew what seattle was going to do on offense all 2nd half, run on 1st, run on 2nd, pass on third if they got a first down great if not they wasted some time. Seattle shut it down at 45-0, even when ny scored it didn't scare the hawks the game was never in doubt. The hawks d when trying is top 5-6 in the league. Grossman had his fits with minny try a d thats as good but has an offense that puts up points, i'll take the points here as well most likely.

Pack/Eagles I wouldnt bet the totals till I got the weather reports as it could effect the result with it being an open air stadium.


So far the only play i've made is Cleveland over Oakland -2, I read the line came out at -1 so its being pounded, I had the browns -7 for my own lines before the real lines came out so if I liked them at -7 I love them at -2.

Vikes + the points might be a play for me as well but still looking into that more as I believe they should be giving points here but still researching.

Cincy maybe, Jax -3 possibly will confirm the rest of my plays later.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Baltimore has played three weak teams so far. Tampa Bay, Oakland and Cleveland. Tampa Bay we are now seeing is a pretty bad team as for Oakland they are probably the worst team in the league and Cleveland is not exactly a powerhouse and they almost beat the Ravens. The Chargers have only played two games so far, both against horrible teams but you can't fault them for having an easy schedule so far. San Diego has also crushed both teams by an amazing margin. Both teams have not played anyone good yet so it will be interesting to see what happens. I have to give the edge to the Chargers still as the bye week helps them prepare a bit more than the Ravens.
As for Seattle, they had the game in hand yes but there is no excuse for any team to fall asleep on defence the way they did in the second half. They will have to play better against the Bears because they won't give up many points at all. The Bengals did not play as well as the score may have indicated. Palmer was pretty average and if it wasn't for the Steelers brain cramps in the 4th quarter they probably would have won. The Patriots really need a win and the Bengals aren't as desperate. The 6 point spread is too high.
Since we don't really agree I will wish you luck on the games we do concur on right now. Minnesota, the Browns and the Jaguars.

flmmkrz
09-25-2006, 09:59 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Baltimore has played three weak teams so far. Tampa Bay, Oakland and Cleveland. Tampa Bay we are now seeing is a pretty bad team as for Oakland they are probably the worst team in the league and Cleveland is not exactly a powerhouse and they almost beat the Ravens. The Chargers have only played two games so far, both against horrible teams but you can't fault them for having an easy schedule so far. San Diego has also crushed both teams by an amazing margin. Both teams have not played anyone good yet so it will be interesting to see what happens. I have to give the edge to the Chargers still as the bye week helps them prepare a bit more than the Ravens.
As for Seattle, they had the game in hand yes but there is no excuse for any team to fall asleep on defence the way they did in the second half. They will have to play better against the Bears because they won't give up many points at all. The Bengals did not play as well as the score may have indicated. Palmer was pretty average and if it wasn't for the Steelers brain cramps in the 4th quarter they probably would have won. The Patriots really need a win and the Bengals aren't as desperate. The 6 point spread is too high.
Since we don't really agree I will wish you luck on the games we do concur on right now. Minnesota, the Browns and the Jaguars.

My biggest issue with the sd play is rivers. He's playing well so far but he's seen Oakland and tennesse, he's faced tougher d's in college. From that he has to walk into baltimore and take on the leagues nastiest d. Its easy for him to look good when LTs running for 100 + a game but we're talking a ravens team giving up 34 yards on average over 3 games. Ravens are gonna pour every available man into the box and leave the corners out on islands. Rivers is gonna have to beat this d passing in their yard and gl.

Re: Seattle and no excuse, there was every excuse. 45 points, there was no way they were giving back that lead and they played like a team that knew it. I dont think they brought a single blitz package the whole 2nd half and sat back in prevent the rest of the game. This wasnt about padding the total or shutting out the giants it was ride it out. This game was over after the 1st quarter realistically. If the giants had come out to play the hawks wouldnt have layed off. Even then 7 points on a hass int, another int resulted in the giants being 20 yards out from paydirt. Thats 13 gimme points which puts the d on hook for a legit 17 points.

Lastly the bengals, they didnt play that well and they won. Im not looking at the fact that they didn't play that well as a negative. They went into a hostile yard and walked out with the win against a tough squad. As for the pats needing a win I disagree, they got miami and buffalo coming up the next 2 weeks, those are games they want to win. This is a sandwich game for them. Div match ups are crucial. I hope they get whupped so the line on them against the fins and bills gets pushed down cause they could be nice plays in upcoming weeks.

callitasicit
09-25-2006, 11:15 PM
My biggest issue with the sd play is rivers. He's playing well so far but he's seen Oakland and tennesse, he's faced tougher d's in college. From that he has to walk into baltimore and take on the leagues nastiest d. Its easy for him to look good when LTs running for 100 + a game but we're talking a ravens team giving up 34 yards on average over 3 games. Ravens are gonna pour every available man into the box and leave the corners out on islands. Rivers is gonna have to beat this d passing in their yard and gl.

Re: Seattle and no excuse, there was every excuse. 45 points, there was no way they were giving back that lead and they played like a team that knew it. I dont think they brought a single blitz package the whole 2nd half and sat back in prevent the rest of the game. This wasnt about padding the total or shutting out the giants it was ride it out. This game was over after the 1st quarter realistically. If the giants had come out to play the hawks wouldnt have layed off. Even then 7 points on a hass int, another int resulted in the giants being 20 yards out from paydirt. Thats 13 gimme points which puts the d on hook for a legit 17 points.

Lastly the bengals, they didnt play that well and they won. Im not looking at the fact that they didn't play that well as a negative. They went into a hostile yard and walked out with the win against a tough squad. As for the pats needing a win I disagree, they got miami and buffalo coming up the next 2 weeks, those are games they want to win. This is a sandwich game for them. Div match ups are crucial. I hope they get whupped so the line on them against the fins and bills gets pushed down cause they could be nice plays in upcoming weeks.

We both bring valid points to the table. Brady does have a lot of pride and don't underestimate his ego. They will come out with a fire in their belly and should compete with the Bengals. I don't want to sound to redundant so I will stop. Obviously you know your football but anything can happen on any given Sunday. ;)

flmmkrz
09-25-2006, 11:44 PM
We both bring valid points to the table. Brady does have a lot of pride and don't underestimate his ego. They will come out with a fire in their belly and should compete with the Bengals. I don't want to sound to redundant so I will stop. Obviously you know your football but anything can happen on any given Sunday. ;)

I hope I wasn't being overly redundant, I like the back and forth as sometimes I pick up things I hadnt originally thought about so I tend to post my thoughts hoping to do the same for others. In the end want us both to crush the books bro gl to ya.

Alexanders out for the hawks against the bears so that should make you like your play even more.

callitasicit
09-26-2006, 01:28 AM
I hope I wasn't being overly redundant, I like the back and forth as sometimes I pick up things I hadnt originally thought about so I tend to post my thoughts hoping to do the same for others. In the end want us both to crush the books bro gl to ya.

Alexanders out for the hawks against the bears so that should make you like your play even more.

No man, not at all! I really respect the knowledgable people in this forum and am always interested in what they have to say even if they don't agree with me. At first I thought I would like the Bears more but Seattle has the best weapons in the air of any team so it should still be a difficult game to wager on.

Lebowski
09-26-2006, 09:29 PM
An Arizona Cardinals source told ESPN's Chris Mortensen that the team has had a change of heart and will stick with Kurt Warner as starting quarterback.

callitasicit
09-27-2006, 04:27 AM
An Arizona Cardinals source told ESPN's Chris Mortensen that the team has had a change of heart and will stick with Kurt Warner as starting quarterback.

They could live to regret that decision.... :eek:

flmmkrz
09-27-2006, 07:42 PM
This isnt week 4 directly related but just took denver to win the afc west. Might be the best time to get in on it as Baltimore should be beating the chargers this week thus making denver and SD tied for the lead and odds should drop. Both have easy games left over but theres a couple tricky match ups that could bite the chargers and even if they make it thru it comes down to their head to heads. Theres no way they're winning either of them. They may squeek into the wildcard but they dont win this division so @ 2.40 its great value imo.

flmmkrz
09-27-2006, 09:05 PM
locked in a few more plays

Cleveland Browns -2 x 3 units ( locked in earlier this week )
Baltimore Ravens + 3.5 ( bought the hook ) x 3 units

9.5 point teaser

Colts +.5 x Rams + 3.5 x Bengals + 3.5 x 1 unit

Would make this a bigger unit play but I dont trust the rams very much but my own lines have them as a legit double digit fave so + a fg it fits.

7 point teasers

Cowboys -2.5 x Vikes + 8 x 2 units

the line worries me here as the vikes are the overwhelming public play and the line went from 0 to +1 for the vikes so the big money must be on the bills to win but my numbers had them at -3 so plus a score, I'll trust the vikes d to hold them to that. Boys to win by a fg even with to's problems should be doable.

Hawks + 10.5 x Falcons pk x 2 units

Falcs at home after a tough game in New Orleans where the world wanted them to lose. Hartwell is practicing, Abrahams practicing so the d should be very ready to go and they are nasty when they are. The cards aren't stopping anybody on d so it should be a case of atl running all day and zona not getting anywhere. I believe the hawks have every chance to take this one outright so taking 10.5 is a no brainer when I see it as a pk at best.

adding

7 point teaser

Washington + 10 x Cleveland/Oakland over 26.5 x 2 units

Just a line read on this one, jax is the big fave coming in and getting a line thats making most of us scratch our head yet the lines not budging so somethings keeping it there. My read is its a sharps play, my own lines had this jax -7 so wash + 10 makes it playable within my own lines.
Clev oak over 26.5, I like the original over as both of these teams should be scoring a few tds a piece. Walters may be in but Moss on a back up corner is good for at least a score and the browns while improved on d since last year can still be moved on, td 2-3 fg type game, and Clevelands put up a couple scores on way better teams than oakland, 2 and 2 should be easy. Over 30 should be cake.

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 01:30 AM
gl bro but I hate those picks. Sd has had a cakewalk of a sched and they get baltimore in baltimore and you gotta give up points???


Disclaimer: I`m no NFL expert. ;) But who has the better football team here? I know you have a vision of the SD run stopped cold and Rivers out of water but haven`t both teams had pretty easy schedules? I have read that the Ravens are weak on offense. Also read some interviews with Charger players and this appears to be a highly motivated team that gets along well with one another.

callitasicit
10-01-2006, 01:38 AM
Disclaimer: I`m no NFL expert. ;) But who has the better football team here? I know you have a vision of the SD run stopped cold and Rivers out of water but haven`t both teams had pretty easy schedules? I have read that the Ravens are weak on offense. Also read some interviews with Charger players and this appears to be a highly motivated team that gets along well with one another.

It's anyone's game any week really. There are arguments on both sides of the spectrum on which team should win. Just have to wait and see.:)

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 02:07 AM
It's anyone's game any week really. There are arguments on both sides of the spectrum on which team should win. Just have to wait and see.:)

True enough, but the key to making some money or not losing in the long run lies in good decisions as to when to get on, when to stay away, and in how to value each bet. But I`m sure everyone know this...

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 06:32 AM
Ive researched around and this is where my sources lean. Myself I bet the Colts and Jags on the spread and made a third bet Jags and Falcons teaser.


Colts - 8
Pats had the score run up on the Jets and let them off the hook. Can`t see the Colts doing the same. You get king quarterback geek and give 8 points. Sounds like a deal to me.

Jags -3

We have seen the Skins and the Jags, who do you think wins? And you give 3? I`m on.


Falcons -7

No guilt trip with the whole nation pulling against them, back home, no great opposition, good play.

happy928
10-01-2006, 06:49 AM
Ive researched around and this is where my sources lean. Myself I bet the Colts and Jags on the spread and made a third bet Jags and Falcons teaser.


Colts - 8
Pats had the score run up on the Jets and let them off the hook. Can`t see the Colts doing the same. You get king quarterback geek and give 8 points. Sounds like a deal to me.

Jags -3

We have seen the Skins and the Jags, who do you think wins? And you give 3? I`m on.


Falcons -7

No guilt trip with the whole nation pulling against them, back home, no great opposition, good play.


I'll be at the Skins game tomorrow...Although, I'm a die hard skins fan, my money will be on the JAX....Losing Shawn Springs and Prilou in our secondary will benefit JAX's taller and faster receivers.....JAXS wrs are avg at least 6'3" or 6'4".....Portis won't be scoring TDS like he did against Texans weak rushing D.....

Take my advice EVERYONE and take the JAX to da bank....

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 07:37 AM
Disclaimer: I`m no NFL expert. ;) But who has the better football team here? I know you have a vision of the SD run stopped cold and Rivers out of water but haven`t both teams had pretty easy schedules? I have read that the Ravens are weak on offense. Also read some interviews with Charger players and this appears to be a highly motivated team that gets along well with one another.

better football team, Baltimore does. Does San Diego have some superior pieces... for sure but the better team, its Baltimore. As for both teams having easy scheds, yup but clevelands a monster rivalry game for the ravens so that plays harder than the record indicates. Tbay is better on both sides of the ball than any team the chargers have faced. Ravens aren't the deepest offensive squad but they have enough to get the job done. I dont take interviews too seriously as both sides are gonna say the right thing so you getting swayed by them is pointless. Bottom lining this...Tomlinsons gonna get his carries but baltimore wont let him win this game so that falls to Rivers. If he does it all the credit to him but when your best reciever is your te and your next best is your tailback who they are already keying on you're in trouble. Welcome to the big leagues Phil here's your first lesson

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 07:49 AM
Ive researched around and this is where my sources lean. Myself I bet the Colts and Jags on the spread and made a third bet Jags and Falcons teaser.


Colts - 8
Pats had the score run up on the Jets and let them off the hook. Can`t see the Colts doing the same. You get king quarterback geek and give 8 points. Sounds like a deal to me.

Jags -3

We have seen the Skins and the Jags, who do you think wins? And you give 3? I`m on.


Falcons -7

No guilt trip with the whole nation pulling against them, back home, no great opposition, good play.

I like the falcons play quite a bit, its a good match up for them especially if Abraham and or Hartwell can figure into the equation.

Jags game has that feeling about it, on paper its a mismatch, I make my own lines every week and they point to the jags being -7 faves so when I saw the line I was excited as well but like Rutgers this line seems tailor made for pounding yet the lines not moving so people just keep hitting it. As such im on the other side and taking the home dog.

Colts i've teased down, I just dont like giving up more than a score, I cant see them losing but I can see the Jets making it close as the colts oline is banged up, and they thin in the secondary. Freeneys been useless and as well as the jets are passing they could backdoor cover this one. Im not gonna predict an outright win like some others around other sites are but the big points scare me off.

Aside from the one play we differ on gl to ya

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 08:07 AM
I dont take interviews too seriously as both sides are gonna say the right thing so you getting swayed by them is pointless. Bottom lining this...

I don`t believe interviews can be dismissed so easily, canned responses, sure but at times words can ring of real sincerety. One player talked of the team practicing and feeling as if "Monday would never come," etc. etc. You have to read the material with a sense and see if it matches the enthusiasm on the field and with the Chargers it does. Are others that believe the running game will work to a degree and that Rivers will do fine. But opinions around on this one are quite split so that`s why I`m leaving it alone.

bad gambler
10-01-2006, 08:08 AM
Love Jax as well, can get them widely at -2.5

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 08:14 AM
but like Rutgers this line seems tailor made for pounding yet the lines not moving so people just keep hitting it. As such im on the other side and taking the home dog.

Hey maybe the Jags will let down or the Skins will come to life, but the Rutgers failure to cover had nothing to do with anyone pounding a line and everything to do with back to back 15 yard penalties with seconds left and a piece of cake dropped interception in the endzone. :haha:

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 08:17 AM
I don`t believe interviews can be dismissed so easily, canned responses, sure but at times words can ring of real sincerety. One player talked of the team practicing and feeling as if "Monday would never come," etc. etc. You have to read the material with a sense and see if it matches the enthusiasm on the field and with the Chargers it does. Are others that believe the running game will work to a degree and that Rivers will do fine. But opinions around on this one are quite split so that`s why I`m leaving it alone.

Feelings are definately split, this one started out a huge public play with everyone and their grandmas on SD but the line wasnt budging, looks like the publics starting to join the ravens side now and even out a bit and the lines jumping towards baltimore begging sd betters to get back on.

bad gambler
10-01-2006, 08:22 AM
Locked in my plays:

Ravens to beat Chargers - $2.10

&

Jax to cover -2.5 v Skins - $1.88

Call me crazy but I am also eyeing the Raiders S/U against the Browns. But whether I am brave enough to get invoved a match between those two is another story.

good luck

happy928
10-01-2006, 08:24 AM
Feelings are definately split, this one started out a huge public play with everyone and their grandmas on SD but the line wasnt budging, looks like the publics starting to join the ravens side now and even out a bit and the lines jumping towards baltimore begging sd betters to get back on.

EVERYONE I talked to is on BMORe tomorrow :rolleyes:

McNair and his company with Stover's last second 52 yrder got him the W last round, but they'll be facing one of the most outstanding lb/db/dl duo in NFL tomorrow. Shawn Merriman, Castillo, not to mention their outstanding secondary will do their job tomorrow and watch LT slowly break down BMORE's D by, catching screen passes, break fre tackles to get his 100 yrds on the ground. :wavey:

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 08:24 AM
Hey maybe the Jags will let down or the Skins will come to life, but the Rutgers failure to cover had nothing to do with anyone pounding a line and everything to do with back to back 15 yard penalties with seconds left and a piece of cake dropped interception in the endzone. :haha:

lIt had nothing to do with anyone pounding a line, the lines just telling us someone who the book takes seriously sees it one way. Doesnt mean its right but it is something worth noting.

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 08:25 AM
Love Jax as well, can get them widely at -2.5

That`s a shame, not so wide as to reach my neighborhood...:( Guess I`ll have to do like most of the rest eventually and open several accounts...

bad gambler
10-01-2006, 08:27 AM
That`s a shame, not so wide as to reach my neighborhood...:( Guess I`ll have to do like most of the rest eventually and open several accounts...

What book are you currently using?

happy928
10-01-2006, 08:27 AM
Call me crazy but I am also eyeing the Raiders S/U against the Browns. But whether I am brave enough to get invoved a match between those two is another story.

good luck

U R CRAZY! ;)

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 08:35 AM
lIt had nothing to do with anyone pounding a line, the lines just telling us someone who the book takes seriously sees it one way. Doesnt mean its right but it is something worth noting.

Perhaps but take out the two big penalties, the second a pass inteference call when the ball was uncatchable 6 feet over the recievers head, as well as the Rutgers DBs shock at having the ball thrown right to him standing in the endzone and the "sharp" guy loses. And this was even with the USF freshman QB suddenly playing the game of his life which no one could have predicted. Don`t think you have the best case study there...;)

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 08:37 AM
EVERYONE I talked to is on BMORe tomorrow :rolleyes:

McNair and his company with Stover's last second 52 yrder got him the W last round, but they'll be facing one of the most outstanding lb/db/dl duo in NFL tomorrow. Shawn Merriman, Castillo, not to mention their outstanding secondary will do their job tomorrow and watch LT slowly break down BMORE's D by, catching screen passes, break fre tackles to get his 100 yrds on the ground. :wavey:

Just going by the numbers vi and insights are putting out there. Early this week this was very one sided, only recently has the trend shifted to even out the betting. Even now they hold a slight edge in the spread betting but barely.

Merrimans a stud but outstanding secondary? since when are they outstanding. They have been against shyt but this is a secondary who is going to be playing a third string safety and has only one new addition in McCree from last years version, a version that was brutal against the pass. Whats changed to take them from brutal to outstanding?

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 08:42 AM
What book are you currently using?

Bodog, Ive already been scolded but they are established, are not going to close up and take your money and payouts are immediate and get to me within a day. But after losing a game by a half point today when others had a better line I`m considering other options.

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 08:43 AM
Perhaps but take out the two big penalties, the second a pass inteference call when the ball was uncatchable 6 feet over the recievers head, as well as the Rutgers DBs shock at having the ball thrown right to him standing in the endzone and the "sharp" guy loses. And this was even with the USF freshman QB suddenly playing the game of his life which no one could have predicted. Don`t think you have the best case study there...;)

fine bro, you made the right play and got unlucky. I dont know what you are arguing. Sharps arent right everytime nobody is. All im saying is that if a book thats taking in huge amounts of bets isnt changing a line and a sharp can cause it to change its something to consider looking at. Should it be the basis for making a play no, but is it enough to call off a play... sometimes.

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 08:45 AM
Locked in my plays:

Ravens to beat Chargers - $2.10

&

Jax to cover -2.5 v Skins - $1.88

Call me crazy but I am also eyeing the Raiders S/U against the Browns. But whether I am brave enough to get invoved a match between those two is another story.

good luck

well we're on the same side with the ravens.

Raiders, you gotta be smokin something good

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 08:50 AM
EVERYONE I talked to is on BMORe tomorrow :rolleyes:

I personally think the Chargers are going to win by a substantial margain but have yet to spring for the bet. My "gut" is sometimes wrong, but I cannot tell you the number of times I`ve been talked out of a bet with rational argumentation only to watch a game or the scoreboard kicking myself. Most notable recent example, the Saints/Falcons game...:eek:

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 08:53 AM
I personally think the Chargers are going to win by a substantial margain but have yet to spring for the bet. My "gut" is sometimes wrong, but I cannot tell you the number of times I`ve been talked out of a bet with rational argumentation only to watch a game or the scoreboard kicking myself. Most notable recent example, the Saints/Falcons game...:eek:

got talked outta that one myself, my numbers screamed saints, my gut kept saying falcons so I was going to tease the saints to a number I was happier with and got talked out of it, at the same time i've been talked outta some potential losses.

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 08:55 AM
Just going by the numbers vi and insights are putting out there. Early this week this was very one sided, only recently has the trend shifted to even out the betting. Even now they hold a slight edge in the spread betting but barely.

Merrimans a stud but outstanding secondary? since when are they outstanding. They have been against shyt but this is a secondary who is going to be playing a third string safety and has only one new addition in McCree from last years version, a version that was brutal against the pass. Whats changed to take them from brutal to outstanding?

They very often don`t move lines or sometimes they move it then move it back, who knows, even your "sharp"est are only hitting around 55%. The money was very lopsided on Rutgers but in the end they made out. Sometimes they don`t, it evens out... Shit its late, cut and pasted the wrong post...lol

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 09:03 AM
got talked outta that one myself, my numbers screamed saints, my gut kept saying falcons so I was going to tease the saints to a number I was happier with and got talked out of it, at the same time i've been talked outta some potential losses.

The Saints were playing for every person that died and suffered in that city and a lot were their racial brothers and sisters. They lived it, saw it, were effected by it. That is what my gut said but all the talk about how much better the Falcons were scared me off and I lost a prop on Dunn and won the under total. But it didnt go under for the reason i expected! LOL

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 09:16 AM
They very often don`t move lines or sometimes they move it then move it back, who knows, even your "sharp"est are only hitting around 55%. The money was very lopsided on Rutgers but in the end they made out. Sometimes they don`t, it evens out... Shit its late, cut and pasted the wrong post...lol

the general publics not anywhere near 55% so between the 2 If my info supports the play and im on the same side as the line movements then I like my play that much more. Doesnt mean its going to win but never hurts to be betting on the same side of people who make money doing this provided my reasons to make the play are more than just on being on the side of the line movement

SwiSha
10-01-2006, 02:19 PM
Dallas will beat the shit out of Tennessee

SwiSha
10-01-2006, 02:26 PM
am I the only or do the colts and cowboys look tasty ats

bad gambler
10-01-2006, 02:28 PM
It just looks wrong that the Boys are laying so many points on the road, even though we know how shit the Titans are.

Adding:

Bulger to throw >261 yards - $2.65

Should be good for >300 today

good luck

SwiSha
10-01-2006, 02:30 PM
Vince Young will start

SwiSha
10-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Colts -9 over Jets

and

Cowboys -9.5 over Titans

good luck

bad gambler
10-01-2006, 02:44 PM
Adding:

Buffalos to cover -1 v Queens - $1.91

gl

betowiec
10-01-2006, 02:53 PM
Colts -9 over Jets

and

Cowboys -9.5 over Titans

good luck

you have balls to play esentially DD favorites on the road *i know the oposition is not great* but b/c with the JustEndTheSeason JETS (they play decent d under Mangini this year)

SwiSha
10-01-2006, 03:20 PM
you have balls to play esentially DD favorites on the road *i know the oposition is not great* but b/c with the JustEndTheSeason JETS (they play decent d under Mangini this year)

the Jets have been playin good so far but.Colts are totally different dimension than the other opponents the Jets played this year..with Manning you just have the feeling he can get your a TD at will..the secondary can t keep up with Harrison and Wayne

Dallas is due for a big offensive performance imo and where better to start against the Titans?? + Vince Young to start for the Titans..expect tim pay his dues in this one ... Titans are always good for some Turnovers as well

betowiec
10-01-2006, 04:24 PM
colts only -7.5 at pinny i think it is because viniateri is out for the colts

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 04:35 PM
colts only -7.5 at pinny

yup I was looking over the latest line movements and noticed this, 9 is a lotta points to be giving on the road, books want indy betters back in.

SD and Baltimore actions split right down the middle. Lines dropped to Sd -1

Cowboys lines moved again, guess Vince isnt scaring anyone -10 now

Oakland betters are coming in hard, line was -2.5 all week now its down to -1

probids
10-01-2006, 05:28 PM
I like the saints to continue their winning form any thoughts?

betowiec
10-01-2006, 05:35 PM
NFL 5-3 +1.18

one long shot parlay:

Jets +7.5, pats +5.5, buffaloML, Chargers ML, Panthers ML and falcons ML @ 22.11 (0.4 on it)

and one: panthers/falcons/dallas (all MLs) 1 unit @ 2.08

will wait for the 2nd halves with on other games to see if i like anything

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 05:44 PM
I like the saints to continue their winning form any thoughts?

just one, not gonna happen imo.

Let down week emotionally for them, yet carolinas gonna be pumped for a divisional match up and home game. Smiths back and the offense looks more settled already. Match up wise I dont like the match up for the Saints. Saints want to work off the run and force teams to bring men into the box and open up the passing game . Panthers corners are strong enough one on one to bring in the extra man for the run game and not get ripped apart in the passing game while the saints should have no answer at d for the panthers passing game which will open up the running game and keep the saints guessing all day. At least thats how I see it playing out

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 05:53 PM
Ravens -1 to start off, Chargers are way too one-dimensional to walk into Baltimore and get any kind of result.

And a small lottery accumulator:
Jets +7.5, Vikings +2, Cowboys -10, 49ers +7, Saints +7, Falcons -7, Dolphins -3.5

happy928
10-01-2006, 08:34 PM
WHAT DID I TELL YOU BOYS LAST NIGHT?

LT WILL BREAK THIS BALTIMORE D DOWN AND GET 100 YRDS ON THE GROUND, NO?

TSK TSK TSK..........

K, BIG PLAY ON JAX NOW.........VAMOS JAX!!!!

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 08:37 PM
Ravens bet is going tits up, Chargers are just better than I expected. Until the playoffs come, of course.

Rams -5.5 over the Lions for the next set of games.

happy928
10-01-2006, 08:51 PM
Just going by the numbers vi and insights are putting out there. Early this week this was very one sided, only recently has the trend shifted to even out the betting. Even now they hold a slight edge in the spread betting but barely.

Merrimans a stud but outstanding secondary? since when are they outstanding. They have been against shyt but this is a secondary who is going to be playing a third string safety and has only one new addition in McCree from last years version, a version that was brutal against the pass. Whats changed to take them from brutal to outstanding?

LIKE I SAID.....SD HAS AN AWESOME D!!!

2 INTS.....2 FORCED FUMBLES.....2 SACKS....

ENOUGH SAID. :cool:

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 09:02 PM
Ravens bet is going tits up, Chargers are just better than I expected. Until the playoffs come, of course.


Oops, I spoke too soon!! Ravens score a safety and then drive for the winning TD! Well, 30 seconds left, so I'm assuming they've won.

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 09:05 PM
WHAT DID I TELL YOU BOYS LAST NIGHT?

LT WILL BREAK THIS BALTIMORE D DOWN AND GET 100 YRDS ON THE GROUND, NO?

TSK TSK TSK..........

K, BIG PLAY ON JAX NOW.........VAMOS JAX!!!!

here's why you don't brag before the game is over

and LT only got 98 yards ;)

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 09:06 PM
Ravens -1 to start off, Chargers are way too one-dimensional to walk into Baltimore and get any kind of result.

And a small lottery accumulator:
Jets +7.5, Vikings +2, Cowboys -10, 49ers +7, Saints +7, Falcons -7, Dolphins -3.5

Ravens win, 16-13, close one. 1-1 this weekend, let's make it 2-2!

bad gambler
10-01-2006, 09:07 PM
Adding:

Raiders to beat the Browns - $2.05

gl

flmmkrz
10-01-2006, 09:10 PM
LIKE I SAID.....SD HAS AN AWESOME D!!!

2 INTS.....2 FORCED FUMBLES.....2 SACKS....

ENOUGH SAID. :cool:

Not good enough :cool:

TFan1156
10-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Oops, I spoke too soon!! Ravens score a safety and then drive for the winning TD! Well, 30 seconds left, so I'm assuming they've won.

Choking is a very relevent factor in sport.... I won on the Chargers though, teased them with the Colts who left it all to the offense to barely win the game.

betowiec
10-01-2006, 09:16 PM
NFL 5-3 +1.18

one long shot parlay:

Jets +7.5, pats +5.5, buffaloML, Chargers ML, Panthers ML and falcons ML @ 22.11 (0.4 on it)

and one: panthers/falcons/dallas (all MLs) 1 unit @ 2.08

will wait for the 2nd halves with on other games to see if i like anything


NFL 6-4 , +1.87 units

adding Pats +6 @ 1.826 for (0.55)
and Pats ML @ 3.15 (0.4)

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 09:16 PM
Choking is a very relevent factor in sport.... I won on the Chargers though, teased them with the Colts who left it all to the offense to barely win the game.

Chargers know all about choking.

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 09:17 PM
Rams are getting the job done on both sides of the ball. This could be a slaughter.

SadrieL
10-01-2006, 09:18 PM
Oh shit I'm in the wrong thread.

betowiec
10-01-2006, 10:45 PM
NFL 6-4 , +1.87 units

adding Pats +6 @ 1.826 for (0.55)
and Pats ML @ 3.15 (0.4)


ht in Ohio, pats 14:6

taking them +3.5 2nd half @ 1.909 (0.6)

betowiec
10-02-2006, 12:05 AM
NFL 6-4 , +1.87 units

adding Pats +6 @ 1.826 for (0.55)
and Pats ML @ 3.15 (0.4)


NFL 8-4, +3.18

betowiec
10-02-2006, 12:06 AM
ht in Ohio, pats 14:6

taking them +3.5 2nd half @ 1.909 (0.6)

NFL: 9-4, +3.72

flmmkrz
10-02-2006, 12:37 AM
I'll be at the Skins game tomorrow...Although, I'm a die hard skins fan, my money will be on the JAX....Losing Shawn Springs and Prilou in our secondary will benefit JAX's taller and faster receivers.....JAXS wrs are avg at least 6'3" or 6'4".....Portis won't be scoring TDS like he did against Texans weak rushing D.....

Take my advice EVERYONE and take the JAX to da bank....

another gem ;)

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 12:37 AM
Locked in my plays:

Ravens to beat Chargers - $2.10

&

Jax to cover -2.5 v Skins - $1.88





win + loss

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 12:38 AM
Adding:

Bulger to throw >261 yards - $2.65

Should be good for >300 today

good luck


win

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 12:39 AM
Buffalos to cover -1 v Queens - $1.91


Raiders to beat the Browns - $2.05



win + loss

flmmkrz
10-02-2006, 12:41 AM
locked in a few more plays

Cleveland Browns -2 x 3 units ( locked in earlier this week ) WIN
Baltimore Ravens + 3.5 ( bought the hook ) x 3 units WIN

9.5 point teaser

Colts +.5 x Rams + 3.5 x Bengals + 3.5 x 1 unit LOSS

Would make this a bigger unit play but I dont trust the rams very much but my own lines have them as a legit double digit fave so + a fg it fits.

7 point teasers

Cowboys -2.5 x Vikes + 8 x 2 units WIN

the line worries me here as the vikes are the overwhelming public play and the line went from 0 to +1 for the vikes so the big money must be on the bills to win but my numbers had them at -3 so plus a score, I'll trust the vikes d to hold them to that. Boys to win by a fg even with to's problems should be doable.

Hawks + 10.5 x Falcons pk x 2 units PENDING

Falcs at home after a tough game in New Orleans where the world wanted them to lose. Hartwell is practicing, Abrahams practicing so the d should be very ready to go and they are nasty when they are. The cards aren't stopping anybody on d so it should be a case of atl running all day and zona not getting anywhere. I believe the hawks have every chance to take this one outright so taking 10.5 is a no brainer when I see it as a pk at best.

adding

7 point teaser

Washington + 10 x Cleveland/Oakland over 26.5 x 2 units WIN

Just a line read on this one, jax is the big fave coming in and getting a line thats making most of us scratch our head yet the lines not budging so somethings keeping it there. My read is its a sharps play, my own lines had this jax -7 so wash + 10 makes it playable within my own lines.
Clev oak over 26.5, I like the original over as both of these teams should be scoring a few tds a piece. Walters may be in but Moss on a back up corner is good for at least a score and the browns while improved on d since last year can still be moved on, td 2-3 fg type game, and Clevelands put up a couple scores on way better teams than oakland, 2 and 2 should be easy. Over 30 should be cake.

killer weekend last weekend and another great week. Just need my hawks to win to make it an outstanding week

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 12:42 AM
Adding:

Seahawks to cover +3.5 v Bears - $1.95

good luck

SadrieL
10-02-2006, 12:45 AM
Why the Hawks? In Chicago without Shaun Alexander?

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 12:46 AM
Why the Hawks? In Chicago without Shaun Alexander?

Based on the best reason of all - gut feeling

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 12:48 AM
Going small on it, but am going to trade during this game since I will be watching so lets see what happens - but starting off with the Hawks

flmmkrz
10-02-2006, 12:51 AM
already have them remaining in + 10.5 but gotta make it a bit more interesting

Hawks x 1 unit ml @ 2.70

now lets watch my boys kick some bear ass

SadrieL
10-02-2006, 12:52 AM
Ravens bet is going tits up, Chargers are just better than I expected. Until the playoffs come, of course.

Rams -5.5 over the Lions for the next set of games.


2-2, hoping for 3-3. Bears -3.5 over the Seahawks.

flmmkrz
10-02-2006, 12:52 AM
Why the Hawks? In Chicago without Shaun Alexander?

Momos a better fit in the wco, and 4 wr sets will create tons of gaps. Not having shaun hurts but theres enough there to make this a tough game for the bears. Im not so sure we lose this one. Go hawks

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 12:55 AM
already have them remaining in + 10.5 but gotta make it a bit more interesting

Hawks x 1 unit ml @ 2.70

now lets watch my boys kick some bear ass


Lets just hope Hasselbeck isn't INT happy tonight

betowiec
10-02-2006, 01:27 AM
NFL: 9-4 +3.72 units

Chicago ML, taken live before their first off.posession aT 1.51 (1unit)

adding: 2nd half seattle -14 @ 16.4 (just a cover) for 0.25 unit

TFan1156
10-02-2006, 02:52 AM
The many prognosticators on the Bears game couldn`t have been any more correct. Seahawk pass defense sucks, Bears stopping the Seattle attack.

SadrieL
10-02-2006, 03:44 AM
2-2, hoping for 3-3. Bears -3.5 over the Seahawks.

Still a quarter to go, but with a 34-6 lead if they capitulate I think a premature post is the least of my worries.

3-3, woooooooooooooooo, hope to make it 4-4 with tomorrow's MNF game.

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 03:49 AM
Adding:

Seahawks to cover +3.5 v Bears - $1.95

good luck

lost - moral of the story, don't trust your gut

betowiec
10-02-2006, 04:14 AM
NFL: 9-4 +3.72 units

Chicago ML, taken live before their first off.posession aT 1.51 (1unit)

adding: 2nd half seattle -14 @ 16.4 (just a cover) for 0.25 unit

1:1 which makes me 10-5 and +3.98units

callitasicit
10-02-2006, 05:03 AM
If you thought Week 3 was tough well take a gander at the games this week in the NFL. I hope many of you did well this week. I would have done a whole lot better if Kurt Warner didn't play on Sunday if you know what I mean. There are a few games that I like this week but not too many.

San Diego -2.5 at Baltimore
I am not overly confident on this one but the Chargers have looked awesome this year and are coming off a bye. Baltimore has looked incredible on defence and have impressed me as well. Something has to give here.

New England +6 at Cincinnati
Are you kidding me? I know the public loves the Bengals now but these are the Patriots! I anticipated the line to be around -3 for the Bengals but double that is a bargain. Don't overate the Bengals, they still have a weak run defence and Corey Dillion is back to his old stomping ground. I would love to know the Patriots record after losing a game in the last five years, I bet you it is pretty damn good!

Bears -3 over Seattle
Okay I will not waste my time on rationalizing this pick. The Bears on prime time against the Seahawks, did you see how poorly the Seattle defence looked in the second half of the Giants game? I don't need to explain anymore to you.

Packers Eagles over 46.5
What a high total huh? Well I don't think so both teams have struggled to stop offences from scoring a lot of points and this is on Monday night!! Eagles should win 38-31.

Good luck everyone!

Well so far 2 out of three with the Chargers letting me down late. How about the Bears and the Patriots, their opponents were true to form just as I expected. Good thing they both have the bye this week huh?

flmmkrz
10-02-2006, 05:13 PM
lost - moral of the story, don't trust your gut


or your heart :mad:

My numbers and my undying devotion to the hawks clashed and went the wrong way. What a performance by hass :sad: He has one a season, last season Jax, this season the bears... 2 weeks off now. Hawks will be ready.

Lebowski
10-02-2006, 07:28 PM
GB over 18.5

Philadelphia has one of the worst pass defenses. Brett Favres final MNF performance... If you Packers can score 31 on DET Lions, I expect a somewhat repeat performance against Eagles.

I dont see how this game doesn't go over.

TFan1156
10-02-2006, 08:58 PM
GB over 18.5

Philadelphia has one of the worst pass defenses. Brett Favres final MNF performance... If you Packers can score 31 on DET Lions, I expect a somewhat repeat performance against Eagles.

I dont see how this game doesn't go over.

It`s funny, no one around is touching the point spread but I`m sure most everyone feels the Eagles will win and wouldn`t dare take the Packers + 11 1/2 or 11... This game could go under if Favre is rushed and harrassed, the Eagles run a lot managing the clock, then we get something like a 27-10 Eagles win and everyone kicks themselves for not betting the spread. Could tease the spread and the over or under but there is no strong play here. And if this game were on the list for Sunday most would leave it alone.

SadrieL
10-02-2006, 09:51 PM
or your heart :mad:

My numbers and my undying devotion to the hawks clashed and went the wrong way. What a performance by hass :sad: He has one a season, last season Jax, this season the bears... 2 weeks off now. Hawks will be ready.

Hasselbeck aiming for receivers legs, and receivers with rubber gloves... I remember seeing this Seahawks team before.

bad gambler
10-02-2006, 09:56 PM
No play for me today - never get involved with Packers game these days

SadrieL
10-02-2006, 10:00 PM
GB over 18.5

Philadelphia has one of the worst pass defenses. Brett Favres final MNF performance... If you Packers can score 31 on DET Lions, I expect a somewhat repeat performance against Eagles.

I dont see how this game doesn't go over.

You're comparing the Lions defense to the Eagles defense? :confused:

Anyway, I can't see the Eagles not scoring at least 30 points, probably even more considering it's MNF. The Packers are still horrible, I'm not exactly impresssed that they went into Detroit and got a win. That should be automatic for most teams, why not award a BYE instead of a visit to Detroit.

The Eagles beat them LAST YEAR when they only had a second string team! It's safe to say the Eagles are much better than last year, and I think it's also safe to say the Packers are much worse. I'm not worried about the point spread, this is going to be a college game score.

SadrieL
10-02-2006, 10:20 PM
I've locked in Eagles -13.5. I don't often take these enormous spreads but come on, the Packers are plain awful.

Gunner
10-03-2006, 12:27 AM
I dont like your chances with the players the eagles have out the d line is gonna have to get to favre to save their now even shakier secondary!

SadrieL
10-03-2006, 12:30 AM
We'll see.

Lebowski
10-03-2006, 12:49 AM
GB 7.00 for tiny

TFan1156
10-03-2006, 12:58 AM
I`ll take the under 49.5 1 Unit

betowiec
10-03-2006, 01:02 AM
NFL: 9-4 +3.72 units

Packers +12 (0.8)

adding: Favre ML @ 7.06 (0.4)


ht in philly packs 9:7

packs +2 at 3.75 (0.45)

Gunner
10-03-2006, 01:07 AM
ive joint ya kuta +12

TFan1156
10-03-2006, 01:11 AM
Another solid capper I know is going with a Green Bay teaser, +17 1/2, over 42.5

flmmkrz
10-03-2006, 01:33 AM
well I couldnt resist watching this game without a little something on it. So

7 point teaser

Eagles -4.5 and under 56 x 1 unit

Lebowski
10-03-2006, 01:42 AM
Cmon PAck... 3 TDs by halftime would be SWEEEEET

betowiec
10-03-2006, 01:43 AM
Cmon PAck... 3 TDs by halftime would be SWEEEEET


in-game thread :cool:

betowiec
10-03-2006, 04:53 AM
NFL: 9-4 +3.72 units

Packers +12 (0.8)

adding: Favre ML @ 7.06 (0.4)


ht in philly packs 9:7

packs +2 at 3.75 (0.45)

nfl: 9-7 +2.07

SadrieL
10-03-2006, 04:59 AM
I've locked in Eagles -13.5. I don't often take these enormous spreads but come on, the Packers are plain awful.

4-4, but this one doesn't really count because I backed the Packers ML at HT. So I end up with my stake returned. First and last time I give up on my initial NFL bet and try to hedge out.

Hate to say I TOLD YOU SO GUNNER! :devil:

TFan1156
10-03-2006, 05:04 AM
4-4, but this one doesn't really count because I backed the Packers ML at HT. So I end up with my stake returned. First and last time I give up on my initial NFL bet and try to hedge out.

Hate to say I TOLD YOU SO GUNNER! :devil:

How many times have you saved your ass by hedging out? That scoring flurry was quite the blip on the radar...

SadrieL
10-03-2006, 05:17 AM
How many times have you saved your ass by hedging out? That scoring flurry was quite the blip on the radar...

I never hedge out on the NFL, if I had hedged out on the Ravens and Rams yesterday I would have ended up with no profit too. I don't like switching views in the middle of a game.

TFan1156
10-03-2006, 05:20 AM
I never hedge out on the NFL, if I had hedged out on the Ravens and Rams yesterday I would have ended up with no profit too. I don't like switching views in the middle of a game.

I don`t have the option of live betting at my book and have heard a lot of people discourage it. Perhaps the better policy is to wait and make it up in the future...

flmmkrz
10-03-2006, 05:31 PM
well I couldnt resist watching this game without a little something on it. So

7 point teaser

Eagles -4.5 and under 56 x 1 unit

money.... great weekend for betting...shitty weekend as a hawks fan