Who will end the year number 3? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Who will end the year number 3?

DrJules
09-11-2006, 08:17 PM
http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/rankings/championsrace/

Currently in the ATP race Federer has 1324 points and Nadal has 825 points. However, 116 cover Roddick 434 points to Haas 318 points as of Monday, 11-Sep-06.


Andy Roddick looks favourite to end year ranked 3. Anyone disagree?

El Legenda
09-11-2006, 08:19 PM
Ljubicic will clean up during Indoor season :)

Radek Stepanek
09-11-2006, 08:20 PM
Ljubicic! DUH! . . . . or Stepanek!

Allez
09-11-2006, 08:21 PM
Andy Roddick He'll win everything from here on out as long as Rogi isn't competing. The courts will continue to quicken so that should suit his game, no ?

liptea
09-11-2006, 08:23 PM
Ivan is defending SO MANY points though. that's what's dangerous for him.

Horatio Caine
09-11-2006, 08:32 PM
Roddick

mangoes
09-11-2006, 08:40 PM
Andy.

Corey Feldman
09-11-2006, 09:08 PM
Id still give Ljubo the edge, he'll be good for some finals and semis in the indoor events and he plays plenty.
Madrid and Paris TMS will obviously play a big part as most players have already almost filled their '5 optional events' points tournies.
Ivan is defending SO MANY points though. that's what's dangerous for him.in a way yes, but if you go by the champions race this year alone, he's 5th and only 20 odd points behind Roddick with all those events he loves still to come.

Apemant
09-11-2006, 09:22 PM
Ivan is defending SO MANY points though. that's what's dangerous for him.

As Escude pointed out, the term 'defending points' is not applicable to champions race. You don't defend race points, you win them. If you want to get more points for the race, you must do better than the next man, regardless of how both of you played last year.

ezekiel
09-11-2006, 09:23 PM
A-Dick

markom
09-11-2006, 10:10 PM
there is no tempering with the draw in roddick favor outside usa,so if he wants to stay no. 3 he better start winning over players ranked 10 & higher.

Jlee
09-11-2006, 10:22 PM
If Roddick remains in the form he has been in, he should get it.

Regenbogen
09-11-2006, 10:25 PM
I think Ljubicic will just beat Roddick for it, he should do well at these events

NyGeL
09-11-2006, 10:38 PM
Ljubo...

but Roddick has good chances

Jimnik
09-11-2006, 10:43 PM
It could be very close. Ljubicic is obviously one of the top indoor players but Roddick is up there too. Davydenko and Robredo aren't going to be a threat. Nalbandian might be a threat but I think it's most likely between Ljubicic and Roddick.

It looks like Federer and Nadal will be entering Madrid and Paris this year and, with Safin in the mix as well, I think Ljubicic is going to struggle to repeat his results from last year.

As long as Andy can stay healthy, he will be the heavy favourite.

~*BGT*~
09-11-2006, 10:50 PM
Andy.

markom
09-12-2006, 01:35 PM
As Escude pointed out, the term 'defending points' is not applicable to champions race. You don't defend race points, you win them. If you want to get more points for the race, you must do better than the next man, regardless of how both of you played last year.

it is true for the slams & masters but not for the best of five .

Blue Heart24
09-12-2006, 01:47 PM
Ivan :)

Apemant
09-12-2006, 04:00 PM
it is true for the slams & masters but not for the best of five .

As far as champions race is concerned, it is true for everything. Right now, Andy already IS #3. If Luby wants to get there, he needs 20 race points more than Andy for the rest of the season. How they played last autumn is completely irrelevant in that context (champions race). It only matters for entry rankings, where Luby is still 660 points ahead of Andy.

stebs
09-12-2006, 04:11 PM
Ljubicic is probably favourite to gain 20 race points on Andy before the year ends. It is his favourite season and should be able to get some serious points if he stays fit. I'll go with him.

El Legenda
09-12-2006, 07:16 PM
Ljubo has a head start already with playing in China this week :)

GlennMirnyi
09-12-2006, 07:21 PM
Potito Starace, after winning all titles available this year and winning the MC.

cmurray
09-12-2006, 07:23 PM
Andy.

yomike
09-13-2006, 01:06 PM
Ivan, Roddick has not beaten a top ten player this year and he is gonna end number three :retard: no way

Dusk Soldier
09-13-2006, 04:02 PM
there is no tempering with the draw in roddick favor outside usa,so if he wants to stay no. 3 he better start winning over players ranked 10 & higher.
maybe you should take a look at the top ten

Dusk Soldier
09-13-2006, 04:04 PM
As far as champions race is concerned, it is true for everything. Right now, Andy already IS #3. If Luby wants to get there, he needs 20 race points more than Andy for the rest of the season. How they played last autumn is completely irrelevant in that context (champions race). It only matters for entry rankings, where Luby is still 660 points ahead of Andy.
I think the thread starter meant year end number three according to the world rankings.

The champions race is just a good idea of where everyone is sitting so far.

hitchhiker
09-13-2006, 04:33 PM
connors

~*BGT*~
09-13-2006, 06:14 PM
Ljubicic is defending A LOT of points. Two tourny wins and both finals in the last two MS tournies. Andy is defending one tournament and one MS semi. He's got a lot more to gain, and Ivan has more to lose before the year is out.

tennismaster882001
09-13-2006, 06:48 PM
Ljubicic or Roddick! Andy should be good indoors as well!

tennismaster882001
09-13-2006, 06:50 PM
Ivan, Roddick has not beaten a top ten player this year and he is gonna end number three :retard: no way

Is that true that Roddick didn't beat any top 10 player this year?? :eek:

kindablue
09-13-2006, 07:07 PM
Xristos!!! At last i get the chance to post this first :rolleyes:

MurrayFan1
09-13-2006, 07:28 PM
No idea, all of them are good calls apart from Hass and Robredo.

Action Jackson
09-13-2006, 07:31 PM
Boris Pashanski

canbera
09-13-2006, 09:38 PM
probably Nalbandian or Roddick.

markom
09-13-2006, 10:09 PM
probably Nalbandian or Roddick.

no chance for nalbandian because roddick,ljubo and few others are better indoor players and he has to defend 600 points from shanghai.
ljubo also has got more than 1000 points to defend next month but good result in shanghai could help him stay in position 3-5.

stebs
09-13-2006, 10:34 PM
I think the thread starter meant year end number three according to the world rankings.

The champions race is just a good idea of where everyone is sitting so far.
At the years end the champions race is the same as the entry rankings.

Pea
09-13-2006, 11:10 PM
Is that true that Roddick didn't beat any top 10 player this year?? :eek:

Not only that, but he's only beaten 4 top 20 players all year long.:lol: Baghdatis on clay :haha:, Ginepri (who's :haha: altogether), Hewitt (bad form :lol: ), and Gonzalez.

revolution
09-13-2006, 11:19 PM
Not only that, but he's only beaten 4 top 20 players all year long.:lol: Baghdatis on clay :haha:, Ginepri (who's :haha: altogether), Hewitt (bad form :lol: ), and Gonzalez.

Hewitt out of form? He thrashed Nole and beat Gasquet, that's horrendous. He's done.

Just Cause
09-13-2006, 11:21 PM
Roddick still does not have 50% of the votes, it shows that even with a great American hardcourt season, it seems that generally people still think anyone else can be #3. TOP 2 ARE TOO DOMINATING.

Dusk Soldier
09-14-2006, 01:29 AM
At the years end the champions race is the same as the entry rankings.
Is it? I would assume they are, but I never examined them closely enough to verify.

Apemant
09-14-2006, 02:56 PM
I think the thread starter meant year end number three according to the world rankings.

The champions race is just a good idea of where everyone is sitting so far.

Ljubicic is defending A LOT of points. Two tourny wins and both finals in the last two MS tournies. Andy is defending one tournament and one MS semi. He's got a lot more to gain, and Ivan has more to lose before the year is out.


You are both correct, but you are missing the point. Instead of looking at entry system and guessing who needs to defend what, and how many points it amounts for, just pick champions race as the base for comparison.
That way, right now the situation is as follows: ARod is #3 with 434 points, Luby is #5 with 416. So ARod has an 18 points lead over Luby, this far into the year. That means this: if Luby makes over 18 race points more than Andy, for the rest of the year, he will be ranked #3 going into the TMC. If he doesn't, Andy stays ahead. When you think like that, it is completely irrelevant who 'defends' what. Since 18 race points isn't all that much, we could just say that whoever performs better this fall, will be #3 (this is true for several people other than those two, but I guess they are favorites). Again, defending points are just not an issue in this context.
Of course, after TMC, year end entry rankings might be slightly different than year end champions race, since some people will earn entry points in the TMC itself. But thats another story. I only wanted to point out that once you say 'ARod is #3 on race, 18 points ahead of Luby who is #5' - the term 'defending points from last year' is just meaningless. And since atptennis.com displays champions race on its front page since USO, and not entry list, it seems natural to think that way.
So, let the race begin. :devil:

Apemant
09-14-2006, 03:05 PM
Is it? I would assume they are, but I never examined them closely enough to verify.

Stebs is generally right, they are almost the same, just multiply race points by 5 and you get entry points (year end only) - but since race points are only awarded for ATP level tourneys, for any player who earned points from challengers and below, entry points will not be the same as race points multiplied by 5. Of course, noone in top 20 bothers to play challengers, and even if they do, they will probably have 5 better results from ATP tournaments, so challengers won't spoil the formula.

jayjay
09-14-2006, 03:30 PM
And since atptennis.com displays champions race on its front page since USO, and not entry list, it seems natural to think that way.
So, let the race begin. :devil:

The ATP site has for the most part of the year had the entry rankings on the home page, now that the season is entering it's final stretch they are bringing the Champions race to the forefront in the build up and promotion for Shanghai.

The no3 that matters at the end of the year is entry ranking in my mind, but in answer to your question I think Nalbandian will end the year no3 for Champions Race and more importantly in my view Entry System.

He will need strong showings in Madrid, Basel, Paris and Shanghai to achieve this. I think he will, although the recent form book would suggest not. I'm hoping DC will ignite his hunger for the rest of the year.

Veronique
09-14-2006, 03:35 PM
Barring injury, it's between Ljubo and Andy.

crouching
09-14-2006, 10:33 PM
The no3 that matters at the end of the year is entry ranking in my mind, but in answer to your question I think Nalbandian will end the year no3 for Champions Race and more importantly in my view Entry System.

Yes, but No. 3 on the year-end Race is exactly the same as No. 3 on the year-end Entry System.

~*BGT*~
09-15-2006, 12:03 AM
Yes, but No. 3 on the year-end Race is exactly the same as No. 3 on the year-end Entry System.

:haha:

# 3 in the Race: Roddick
# 3 in the Entry Rankings: Ljubicic
:wavey:

Rogiman
09-15-2006, 12:06 AM
For the 10006th time: both ranking systems agree the week before TMC.

jayjay
09-15-2006, 12:44 AM
Yes, but No. 3 on the year-end Race is exactly the same as No. 3 on the year-end Entry System.

My prediction still stands. Nalbandian 3 for both. :lol: And it's not exactly the same pending what happens in TMC.

Apemant
09-15-2006, 07:56 PM
My prediction still stands. Nalbandian 3 for both. :lol: And it's not exactly the same pending what happens in TMC.

I'm not saying that your prediction can't possibly be true - it definitely can. David is a great player with huge talent, it's not hard to admit - for example - that he is a lot more talented than Ljubo. Even Ljubo himself would openly admit that.
But, might I ask what do you base your prediction on? I mean, neither Ljubo nor David showed any great tennis since RG this year, so, if either of them is going to be #3, they will have to step up with their game. But if they both do, I still believe indoor season suits Ljubo more than it does to David.
So, I think both ARod and Ljubo have better chances to end the year as #3 than David does. I think that's a realistic opinion; I have absolutely nothing against David and won't mind if he proves me wrong. :angel:

Apemant
09-15-2006, 08:16 PM
:haha:

# 3 in the Race: Roddick
# 3 in the Entry Rankings: Ljubicic
:wavey:

He said at the end of the year - and he is 99% right, laugh on it or not. The only difference between the race and entry systems right before TMC, are the points won in TMC itself by last year's TMC contenders. Right after TMC, race and entry systems are almost exactly the same - they differ only on the points won on challengers and below, but that doesn't concern our #3 debate. At the end of the year, right after TMC, top 20 on champions race list are guaranteed to be the same as top 20 on entry list, as I doubt any top 20 player would have points won on challengers that would actually count for the entry system.

But do tell me, are you sure you understand how race and entry systems work? If you are uncertain but interested, just check this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Tennis_Professionals#ATP_Race) on Wikipedia. There are very few things Internet can offer that match Wikipedia. :worship:

Byrd
09-15-2006, 08:20 PM
Not on topic, but how many points do you get if you win the Masters cup?

Apemant
09-15-2006, 08:31 PM
The only difference between the race and entry systems right before TMC, are the points won in TMC itself by last year's TMC contenders.

I followed my own advice, checked the Wikipedia, and I stand corrected. There is no difference between race and entry both right before and right after TMC (for top 20 at least) - as TMC points from the last year are dropped before, not after TMC.

Apemant
09-15-2006, 10:41 PM
Not on topic, but how many points do you get if you win the Masters cup?

You get 20 race points (100 entry points) for each RR win, 40 points for a semifinal win, and 50 points for winning the whole thing. So, maximum 150 race points (750 entry). David won 650 points last year as he lost one of his RR matches (to Federer).

Byrd
09-16-2006, 12:26 AM
You get 20 race points (100 entry points) for each RR win, 40 points for a semifinal win, and 50 points for winning the whole thing. So, maximum 150 race points (750 entry). David won 650 points last year as he lost one of his RR matches (to Federer).

Thanx

mrserenawilliams
09-16-2006, 03:17 AM
Roddick will end the year ranked #3. Blake could have a shot, but he needs to play well and often this fall.

~*BGT*~
09-16-2006, 04:55 AM
He said at the end of the year - and he is 99% right, laugh on it or not. The only difference between the race and entry systems right before TMC, are the points won in TMC itself by last year's TMC contenders. Right after TMC, race and entry systems are almost exactly the same - they differ only on the points won on challengers and below, but that doesn't concern our #3 debate. At the end of the year, right after TMC, top 20 on champions race list are guaranteed to be the same as top 20 on entry list, as I doubt any top 20 player would have points won on challengers that would actually count for the entry system.

But do tell me, are you sure you understand how race and entry systems work? If you are uncertain but interested, just check this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Tennis_Professionals#ATP_Race) on Wikipedia. There are very few things Internet can offer that match Wikipedia. :worship:

Yeah, i undertsand it, but I didn't see where the person said year-end.