If old man Agassi can take Fedex to a 5th set (2004) and win a set 6-2 (2005)..... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

If old man Agassi can take Fedex to a 5th set (2004) and win a set 6-2 (2005).....

atpSUPERMAN
09-09-2006, 12:48 AM
.....does that mean Agassi in his physical prime would dominate Federer?

I believe so. The main thing about Sampras that troubled Agassi was the incredible serving (since it takes away Agassi's return of serve). Federer's serve is great but not on the Sampras level. Off the ground Agassi would be able to control Federer if in his physical prime. I've seen stretches where 35-year-old Agassi completely pushed Federer back behind the baseline and made him run (see last year's final, Agassi won the 2nd set 6-2 and got up a break in the 3rd set). In his prime Agassi would have been able to keep that up for 3 sets and finish him off.

Also add the factor of Brad Gilbert as Agassi's coach and you have a much better tactiCOOL player than the one coached by one-dimensional darren cahill.

meumar
09-09-2006, 12:53 AM
.....does that mean Agassi in his physical prime would dominate Federer?

I believe so. The main thing about Sampras that troubled Agassi was the incredible serving (since it takes away Agassi's return of serve).

Well, I think that Agassi also had a mental block while playing Sampras, while Sampras was extra motivated to play his absolute best while playing Agassi.

I agree with you somewhat, though, about Agassi vs. Federer. I don't think that Agassi would have dominated Federer, but they could have been on equal footing, if Agassi was mentally ready to play Federer.

atpSUPERMAN
09-09-2006, 01:08 AM
I think Agassi has trouble moving to his forehand during the last few years while 10 years ago he could move any direction swiftly. Also his court speed has reduced over the years. He is stronger but slower. And I have no doubt his tactics have become more predictable since Brad Gilbert left. Theres a lot of ground missing against Fedex that would be made up by the last 5-10 years.

BlackSilver
09-09-2006, 01:14 AM
I doubt he would dominate him, but several of their close matches could have their outcome changed

gomarray
09-09-2006, 01:33 AM
Even though Agassi is a little slower around the court, his consistency was never as good in the past and his serve wasn't so strong, so Federer would still have come out on top. Federer is the best ever, you should never doubt that.

BlackSilver
09-09-2006, 01:39 AM
Even though Agassi is a little slower around the court, his consistency was never as good in the past and his serve wasn't so strong, so Federer would still have come out on top. Federer is the best ever, you should never doubt that.


Christ. What I did to deserve that?

Just Cause
09-09-2006, 01:41 AM
Agassi peaked long ago, and he never advanced, but he didnt fade much either as he made #1 only about 3 years ago. That is pretty recent. I wouldnt say he was declining, but his prime was not as good as now since his prime was against weak players.

its.like.that
09-09-2006, 02:20 AM
If Federer had actually tried, those scorelines would have been vastly different.

:wavey:

sawan66278
09-09-2006, 02:56 AM
I don't think domination...but I am almost certain that Agassi would have a better head to head record...The Agassi of 1999-2002...when he was at his peak physically would win six of ten matches...on almost any surface...Like you said...an aging Agassi almost beat Roger last year...imagine an Agassi at his peak...a scary thought indeed...

maskedmuffin
09-09-2006, 03:06 AM
he would have lost to federer just like he lost last year


just like he loses to sampras


his mindset is such that hes a great frontrunner, but when he gets into trouble patches he can let that derail his game and talent.

It has nothing to do with his talent, it has to do with his mindset. Its what prevented him from achieving the next level and have double digit grand slams earlier in his career. Agassi is what he is, a guy who is "great", but surpassed in actual results by sampras, borg, federer, hell even lendl.



Agassi of 1995 would have pushed federer also, but would have inevitably found a way to make unforced errors at crucial times (with steam rising from that bald head of his), and he would have continued to press by attempting to speed up play.

He was actually most mentally mature later in his career.


This is why imo he is not in the "top tier" of all time greats, but rather right on the doorstep.

hoobSD
09-09-2006, 05:00 AM
Agassi is what he is, a guy who is "great", but surpassed in actual results by sampras, borg, federer, hell even lendl.

Federer:
-8 Slams, 1 Final
-40 Career Titles
-11 Masters Shields

Agassi:
-8 Slams, 7 finals
-Career Slam
-60 Career Titles
-17 Masters Shields

Not yet ;)

atpSUPERMAN
09-09-2006, 07:58 AM
Federer shouldn't be placed among the top tier of all-time greats. Once Nadal hits his prime (next year?) Federer may never win a slam again, even Wimbledon which Nadal is already almost winning at age 20. Agassi's 8 slams are only great because he's the only man EVER to win all 4 slams on 4 different surfaces. Federer still has work to do if he wants to join Agassi.

swissfed
09-09-2006, 08:37 AM
I would rather give the chance to Marat Safin , He would be much better if he didn't injury, to be honest, he has much more chances against the Mighty Fed,

hitchhiker
09-09-2006, 08:53 AM
only problem with this theory is that agassi barely got past todd martin at his peak in 1999

tennis isnt decided by some formula or pattern you freaking nerds

MatchFederer
09-09-2006, 08:57 AM
Surely on any given day it is possible for a player to take a set off another even by a dominating scoreline.. old or not. Frankly the fact Agassi managed to take him to 5 sets and and win one off him 6-2 really proves very little.

For the record I think that Agassi would have always struggled with Federer. Just got a feeling that even a prime Agassi would find it mentally difficult facing Federer, although I feel he would have had more success... 3 games out of every 10 prime for prime maybe (assuming Federer has reached his).

atpSUPERMAN
09-09-2006, 09:01 AM
Despite beating Federer 9-7 in the fifth set of the Aust Open Final, Safin has a poor head to head with Federer (7-2). While Nadal has the same head to head vs Federer (6-2) as he does most other players on the tour. And Nadal is 2-1 vs Federer in grand slam finals.

hitchhiker
09-09-2006, 09:07 AM
Despite beating Federer 9-7 in the fifth set of the Aust Open Final, Safin has a poor head to head with Federer. While Nadal has the same head to head vs Federer as he does most other players on the tour.


hewitt gave agassi all sort of problems in early 2000s. old ass agassi almost beat federer in 2005.
Seems like hewitt shouldnt be getting bagelled by federer in each match or 2+2 isnt equal to 4.

MatchFederer
09-09-2006, 09:11 AM
Yes but Nadal is Nadal.. styles make fights. I think Nadal would be a stylistic problem for Agassi.. with his exceptional retrieving skills and brick wall-esque nature.. (not that Agassi is not an otherworldly retriever). But surely Nadal would frustrate Agassi. Bare in mind I am NOT saying that Nadal is a better player.. just that potentially, Nadal's game may be hard for Agassi to handle... Nadal's slow pace is another thing. Infact we have already seen Agassi show some frustration for that haven't we?

Anyway my point is that Nadal having a H2H advantage against Federer does not really aid in justifying that Agassi probably would have.

MatchFederer
09-09-2006, 09:13 AM
Hewitt gave Sampras hell as well.. He may not have with Sampras in his prime but I think Sampras would have still found the aussie tough. But who is of course the better player??

jmp
09-09-2006, 09:54 AM
.....does that mean Agassi in his physical prime would dominate Federer?

No. "Young" Andre was always a great talent I could count on for an entertaining match. If he and Roger were the same age when Roger hit his stride Roger would still dominate their head-to-head. I'm sure they would have met up more often. But, it's hard to know if the Andre I remember from back then would have had that many more wins.


A side note about Roger. In addition to being supremely gifted as an athlete and tennis professional, Roger is savvy. He works very hard to navigate his way through New York and the U.S. media.

atpSUPERMAN
09-09-2006, 10:15 AM
In the 2005 US Open Final against Roger Federer, Agassi played the 2nd set like it was 1995 and won it 6-2. He was crushing every ball at supersonic speeds into each corner, never playing the role of retriever and making Federer's shadow resemble that of Michael Chang. After gaining a break in the 3rd set Agassi began to feel the effects of THREE consecutive 5-setters and lost the 4th narrowly beforing fading to a 6-1 defeat in the 4th. 1995 Agassi would have lived up to his tag as the BEST FRONTRUNNER IN TENNIS. And of course, 1995 Agassi would not have been suffering nerve damage and be seen limping after the match.

spencercarlos
09-09-2006, 11:34 AM
Despite beating Federer 9-7 in the fifth set of the Aust Open Final, Safin has a poor head to head with Federer (7-2). While Nadal has the same head to head vs Federer (6-2) as he does most other players on the tour. And Nadal is 2-1 vs Federer in grand slam finals.
The score is 1-1 in grand slam finals.
And the recent tendency shows that people is handling Nadal´s game now better than last year. Unlike with Federer who has lost only once to a player not named Nadal this year. enough said.

atpSUPERMAN
09-09-2006, 02:43 PM
The score is 1-1 in grand slam finals.
And the recent tendency shows that people is handling Nadal´s game now better than last year. Unlike with Federer who has lost only once to a player not named Nadal this year. enough said.

Yes thats true, 1-1 in Grand Slam Finals. I accidently counted the Nadal's 2005 Roland Garros win as a Final when in fact it was a Semi.