What does Andy need to do to become the best? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What does Andy need to do to become the best?

Fumus
02-09-2004, 07:02 PM
Andy needs to improve to become the best player he can be, we all know that but, what needs the most improvement ?

Net skills? Return of Serve? Baseline game? Backhand? Constructing points? etc..

MisterQ
02-09-2004, 07:15 PM
His net skills and backhand are slowly and steadily improving.

The return of serve could use a lot of work, which he is starting to realize. It would be good if he could confidently take some serves a bit earlier and cut off angles when they are out wide.

Most importantly, imo, he needs to improve his performance on clay, with patience, consistency, point contruction...

Deboogle!.
02-09-2004, 07:18 PM
yea... pretty much what you guys have said is exactly what I'd say.

Also, with his patience he's just gotta keep working on staying calm and not letting things get to him. He's already a LOT better but when calls don't go his way and things aren't going the way he might want, he's gotta keep learning to just stay calm and ride through it and play his game.

Fumus
02-09-2004, 07:23 PM
His net skills and backhand are slowly and steadily improving.

The return of serve could use a lot of work, which he is starting to realize. It would be good if he could confidently take some serves a bit earlier and cut off angles when they are out wide.

Most importantly, imo, he needs to improve his performance on clay, with patience, consistency, point contruction...

Good points MisterQ but, I would expect nothing less from you...


Honestly, improving in any area isn't a bad thing. If Roddick's serve got 10mph faster, that might help his game alot, then again it might not. The point is, what does A-Rod really needs to do to gain an edge on his opponents. What's the thing that is loosing him the most matches? I would guess that it is the return of serve. But, I was polling you A-Rod experts to see what you think..

Deboogle!.
02-09-2004, 07:28 PM
If I had to pick ONE thing, I would say the return. He misses a lot of second serves in the net still, but so far this year, he is returning much better than even at the end of last year. He did say that it's important to him to do that and that he and Brad have worked on the return, and I definitely have seen it thusfar this year.

Movement, also, just having the luxury to have more time to set up shots, minimize errors, etc. etc. I think have cost him at important points during matches in the past.

I also think just more variety. He can get into matches with people who can block back his serve and then attack his backhand and this gives him trouble. I loved the 98mph off-pacer with the serve-volley on MP against Koubek last week... he has some opponents like Agassi, Roger, Nalbandian, Henman, etc., who've got him figured out so he's gotta keep developing and adding variety so that he can throw these guys off.

tangerine_dream
02-09-2004, 07:30 PM
Consistently beat Federer. ;)

Deboogle!.
02-09-2004, 07:32 PM
Consistently beat Federer. ;)

:haha: well nice theory... but he's gotta improve on all this stuff to be able to do that ;)

Fumus
02-09-2004, 07:34 PM
yea... pretty much what you guys have said is exactly what I'd say.

Also, with his patience he's just gotta keep working on staying calm and not letting things get to him. He's already a LOT better but when calls don't go his way and things aren't going the way he might want, he's gotta keep learning to just stay calm and ride through it and play his game.

Good point, I didn't even think of that Bunk. I kinda like fiery A-Rod better like in that US Open Roddick vs.Hewitt match... :devil:

Alright...Alright..that's probably what helped him loose that but, I don't want him to become the "Pete of Emotions" out there. I want to see some emotion from him, that's what really made me an A-Rod fan...

It's not about not showing the emotion or not getting worked up. It's what you do with the emotion. Jimmy Connors would use it to get the crowd into it and get pumped up. Johnny Mac would get really angry and really focused. So you don't have to be cold as ice out there. You just can't let your emotions negatively affect your play, I think that is true.. :cool:

Fumus
02-09-2004, 07:36 PM
Consistently beat Federer. ;)

Right on! :worship:

Fumus
02-09-2004, 07:40 PM
If I had to pick ONE thing, I would say the return. He misses a lot of second serves in the net still, but so far this year, he is returning much better than even at the end of last year. He did say that it's important to him to do that and that he and Brad have worked on the return, and I definitely have seen it thusfar this year.

Movement, also, just having the luxury to have more time to set up shots, minimize errors, etc. etc. I think have cost him at important points during matches in the past.

I also think just more variety. He can get into matches with people who can block back his serve and then attack his backhand and this gives him trouble. I loved the 98mph off-pacer with the serve-volley on MP against Koubek last week... he has some opponents like Agassi, Roger, Nalbandian, Henman, etc., who've got him figured out so he's gotta keep developing and adding variety so that he can throw these guys off.

I love how you are like, if I had to pick one thing, then you say like three things. Haha :lol: j/k Bunk

There is alot he needs to improve on but, minor stuff, I think, he is no Melzer out there. haha :p

Mixing it up is a very good idea, movement is a must, and ROS well only if he wants to break Rogi's(or any other big server's) serve... ;)

Havok
02-09-2004, 08:16 PM
EVERYTHING!!!
but most importantly is the return of serve. with a decent return of serve, the serve&volleyers won't trouble him as much as they do now

Deboogle!.
02-09-2004, 09:07 PM
crap, I wrote out a nice long reply and hit submit and went to class and it was lost and never went through. Oh well, all I said was that there's a huge difference between Andy being more calm and even-keeled and turning into Pete. Andy has to be himself, he feeds off the crowd, gets himself pumped up, wears his heart on his sleeve.

What I'm talking about more is in those really tough matches if he can stay even instead of freaking out on both umps and himself, I think he can get through those tough moments on top instead of letting his level of play decrease markedly.

You brought up the 2001 USO. If Andy had had his 2003 USO mentality during the 2001 USO I am 100% confident he would have won that match with Hewitt. He was playing amazing tennis in that 5th set and let one call affect him so badly that he couldn't recover.

More recently, I look to the TMC match against Moya where he let one bad call affect him for the whole second set. I see this as something huge that he's got to get over... he's definitely making progress but he has a looooong way to go and I think it will continue to cost him some matches until he can learn to not let his anger get in the way of his level of play.

star
02-09-2004, 09:16 PM
I love how you are like, if I had to pick one thing, then you say like three things. Haha :lol: j/k Bunk



That's the baby lawyer in her. ;)

Deboogle!.
02-09-2004, 09:38 PM
hahahaha you know it star ;)

J. Corwin
02-10-2004, 09:07 PM
Stand further in from the baseline...not 534534534 feet behind it. As powerful as his shots are, he often finds himself getting dictated to because he has to cover so much more ground. He needs to come in and cut off some of those angles. This applies to his return of serve as well of course. I've seen his opponent serve him out wide, and then finishes the point by hitting to the open court. If the point isn't over by then, it usually is lost for Andy anyway because he'd be in such a defensive position already.

Deboogle!.
02-10-2004, 09:10 PM
totally agreed, Jace. I think he's doing a little better so far this year but he's still gotta keep working on that a LOT

Nishy
02-19-2004, 05:42 AM
This is very nice to see Andy is improving and getting better.
But I just curious when do you think he will be complete(best)
player like Federer? I think Federer is pretty much complete.

When I watched Siebel Open match last week on TV, I thouhgt
Andy still hesitated the timing when he goes to net and sometimes
gave Fish the point.

star
02-19-2004, 01:13 PM
oh, no. I don't think Andy is suddenly going to develop into a Federer type player no matter how much he improves. He can't seek to play like someone else. He's got to use his own strengths.

He is never going to be a natural volleyer. But he can work on it and improve. After all, Borg became quite a good volleyer even though it wasn't part of his natural game. Andy is always going to have to work very hard during his career.

Deboogle!.
02-19-2004, 02:11 PM
Andy is always going to have to work very hard during his career.


Yep, and luckily he seems to recognize that and is willing to do it :)

Havok
02-19-2004, 06:53 PM
Andy will never become as complete of a player as Federer, but he's working really hard to become more and more complete. already last year he improved his backhand A LOT, and also his volleys with the serve&volley play. he'll never have the returns like Andre, or the volleys of Federer, or a backhand like Safin. he's got the serve and the forehand down, better than anyone, with the exception of the forehand, Ferrero's is equally as good. but he doesn't need his backhand/return/volleys to be superb, they just have to become very solid so his opponents can't attack those areas as much as they do now. i would give Andy till about mid/end of 2005 to become a pretty well rounded player, bringing his less than average shots to about average, but probably a little longer to develop all his array of shots to become really good shots

tangerine_dream
02-19-2004, 07:52 PM
The game that Fed or Safin has seems to be something that you're born with; they just see the ball differently. And Fed appears to have this incredible knack for reading his opponents' body language and guessing (mostly) correctly where and how they will hit the ball. It's unbelievable.

I don't know how to classify someone like Andy. He definitely has a passion for tennis; he was born with that passion (a 3-year-old actually knowing he would play tennis professionally? we should all be so lucky!) but he doesn't have the natural touch for it the way Federer does. Not many players do, actually.

I think Andy's best weapon right now is the fact that he's well aware of his shortcomings and will work hard to fix those. This is in contrast to someone like Lleyton Hewitt, who doesn't seem to think his game needs some tuning up. This is precisely what will keep Hewitt from becoming No. 1 again. I think he's great, but the chip on his shoulder will do him in.

Also, does anyone else get frustrated watching Andy's backhand? He's certainly improved but if he made two more little tweaks he could have one more nasty weapon. :devil:

My advice: he needs to step deeply into his backhand (Agassi does this) and quit taking baby steps. Then he needs to rotate the lowerhalf of his body along with his shoulders which will give him added power. It he places the ball right, bam!, the opponent won't know what hit him. :angel:

Deboogle!.
02-19-2004, 07:57 PM
write Brad an email and tell him ;)

Nishy
02-19-2004, 11:48 PM
Thank you for your opinion.
l little expected Andy to have the talent like Fed and Safin, but I have to admit Andy is not the type like Federer or Safin who has seems to be something that you're born with as Tangerine said.
But I am expecting him to be a top player for long time who is synthetically or overall strong (skills, mentally, physically and how to get the important point to win, etc).

MisterQ
02-20-2004, 01:25 AM
It's true Andy is not a freaky talent like Federer, Safin, or Agassi who can seemingly just pick winners out of the air because they see the ball so well. But he's still a very talented guy. It's not always "pretty," but he can come up with some pretty great shots. I think his competitive disposition is part of his "talent." There have been greater ball-strikers who never had the "fire" and concentration necessary to train hard and fight hard out on the court.

The backhand can use improvement, as coach Tangy advises.

heya
02-20-2004, 03:41 AM
With all the shortcomings, I wonder how he could
beat players that Fed,Safin,Hewitt & Agassi lost to.
Right now, he's too happy with any speed a malfunctioning radar gun measures :lol:...Brad
isn't helping him by repeating the 160 mph idea!

His body type is a disadvantage in tennis-that's why it's aggravating to watch him play poorly, especially when he's slacking off. I get the feeling
that he doesn't watch his matches to get rid of bad habits, impatience/rushing, and adjust his serve/returns.
Players with longevity will
have more success than early peaking players, imo.

When he trains with big discipline-not just on hardcourt,
I'm sure he'll constantly win and be near flawless like Fed, Agassi and Safin. ;) :haha:

WyveN
02-20-2004, 08:50 AM
Right now his probably good enough to be in top 2, if he wants to consistently beat Federer and take over #1 long term then he will probably have to murder Roger though

By the time you are 21-22 the improvements in your game will be marginal and Andy's backhand or volleys are not going to develop into world class no matter how hard he practices.

Majority of improvements from now on is mental - knowing what shots to hit, knowing when to go to the net, knowing when to go for the safe shot instead of outright winner.

Leo
02-20-2004, 10:56 AM
I agree with Wyven. :)

Deboogle!.
02-20-2004, 01:21 PM
By the time you are 21-22 the improvements in your game will be marginal

Wow I can't disagree with that statement more.

WyveN
02-20-2004, 01:37 PM
Please explain preferably with examples of past players

Deboogle!.
02-20-2004, 01:54 PM
well I think that's a really depressing notion for players to plan on playing til say, around 30, but saying they can only marginally improve.

Someone like Agassi, you've seen make changes and tweaks and adjustments that are clearly visible for the entire duration of his career and perhaps even moreso in the past few years. Someone like Tim Henman has worked a great deal on his serve and it seems to be much improved. Gambill has recently started serve-volleying and going to the net more and seems to have worked thusfar.

If I have to justify my opinion, you should justify yours as well. What changes when a person is 21 or 22, instead of 24 or 25 or older, that makes them not be able to improve a couple of particular shots or whatever significantly?

WyveN
02-20-2004, 02:01 PM
If I have to justify my opinion, you should justify yours as well. What changes when a person is 21 or 22, instead of 24 or 25 or older, that makes them not be able to improve a couple of particular shots or whatever significantly?

By the time you are 19 the base of your game is formed. By the time you
are in your late teens and think about turning professional you have had so much practice that your serves, groundstrokes, volleys are at around 95% of your potential.

Someone ranked in the late 100s during the age of 18-22 is not going to jump to the top 10 during the ages of 23-30 just because they practice.

Agassi has improved in his dedication, training, mentality, motivation, strategies (which is all huge and can be the difference between a 3 slam career and a 8 slam career) but in actual basic play he is perhaps 5% better then he was during the long hair days.

Deboogle!.
02-20-2004, 02:23 PM
but how can you so easily separate the two? Take andy for example. He serve-volleys much more than he used to (granted he went from pretty much never to once in a while, but still a large increase in proportional terms), and particularly when he has to second serve on a break point... is that because he's a better volleyer, or is it because he just has more experience and confidence than a year and a half ago? Since my opinion is that it's a bit of both, I don't see how the two can be so clearly separated.

Or, someone like Schuettler, what's your assessment of why he was finally able to climb into the top 10 (and I'm not suggesting it was because he practiced a lot or improved particular strokes, I'm just merely asking your opinion)?

star
02-20-2004, 03:08 PM
I think you are right that the top players improve marginally after they are mature... 20-22. However, they have to keep improving to stay up with the game. Very few players stop improving after that age. As Agassi says: If you aren't improving every day, you are falling behind. Players can't stay stagnant. Of course, Federer/God can afford to do that more than most. ;)

The small improvements do make a difference. Also working on speed, stamina, fitness, mentality are critical.

We can all speculate about Rainer, and I'm sure there are eyebrows raised about his sudden rise in the rankings... largely due to stamina and speed and not his tennis. Late career revivals are alwyas a bit suspect in my book, but I am very cynical.

tangerine_dream
02-20-2004, 03:31 PM
By the time you are 21-22 the improvements in your game will be marginal

*snort* Tell that Andre Agassi.

WyveN
02-20-2004, 09:51 PM
but how can you so easily separate the two? Take andy for example. He serve-volleys much more than he used to (granted he went from pretty much never to once in a while, but still a large increase in proportional terms), and particularly when he has to second serve on a break point... is that because he's a better volleyer, or is it because he just has more experience and confidence than a year and a half ago? Since my opinion is that it's a bit of both, I don't see how the two can be so clearly separated.


With Andy's serve it is extremely easy to serve-volley. It is a case of knowing when to come in and having the confidence to do so, something that occured when Gilbert came along rather then because Roddick's volley improvement. Of course they improve marginally but from what I am reading here people expect Roddick's volleys and backhands to go to another level.


Or, someone like Schuettler, what's your assessment of why he was finally able to climb into the top 10 (and I'm not suggesting it was because he practiced a lot or improved particular strokes, I'm just merely asking your opinion)?

I have stated that I don't believe Schuettler will repeat his top 10 finish this year. His start to the year certainly confirms that. His rise last year was due to extra confidence which brought more consistency to his play. That confidence was because he was able to get to the AO final with a bit of luck and rode that wave of confidence all through the year.

Right now he is severely lacking in confidence, I bet, so we will see if he recovers.

WyveN
02-20-2004, 09:59 PM
I think you are right that the top players improve marginally after they are mature... 20-22. However, they have to keep improving to stay up with the game. Very few players stop improving after that age.

I never said they stop improving, the game keeps progressing, they have to improve. I was referring to comments such as "Roddick is going to gain another 10 miles on his serve", "Roddick is going to have a complete game", "Roddick's volleys and backhands will improve with significant practice to the top level"

Its not going to happen just like Federer will not be able to serve as fast as Andy no matter how much he practices.


As Agassi says: If you aren't improving every day, you are falling behind.


Of course they are always improving, Federer at the moment is a better player then he was last October even though none of his strokes have not improved.



The small improvements do make a difference. Also working on speed, stamina, fitness, mentality are critical.


I agree but I am talking about significant improvements at this age


We can all speculate about Rainer, and I'm sure there are eyebrows raised about his sudden rise in the rankings... largely due to stamina and speed and not his tennis. Late career revivals are alwyas a bit suspect in my book, but I am very cynical.

Late revivals are usually the direct result of a event that gives the player the confidence that they lack.

For Schuettler it was AO final
For Agassi it was teaming up with Gilbert
For Rafter it was coming from 2 sets to love down in DC against Pioline in 1997
For Lendl it was winning FO in 84 against Mcenroe from being down 2 sets to love and a break

etc etc

Deboogle!.
02-20-2004, 10:12 PM
With Andy's serve it is extremely easy to serve-volley. It is a case of knowing when to come in and having the confidence to do so, something that occured when Gilbert came along rather then because Roddick's volley improvement. Of course they improve marginally but from what I am reading here people expect Roddick's volleys and backhands to go to another level.


So you do not think Andy's at all a better volleyer than say, a year and a half ago? And his backhand is CERTAINLY better. I never said I expect him to be an all-court player or have a great backhand weapon, but I expect him to improve both to the point where they're not a liability like they can still be. If others said/think that, I suppose they would have to explain that to you.

As for Schuettler, I was not asking about his abysmal 2004 start but his successful 2003 season. I was just asking your opinion of why he had a good season, that is all. I don't particularly have an opinion on the topic but was just curious for yours.

I don't know, you can keep trying but I don't think you'll be able to fully convince me that with a lot of hard work someone can't improve a particular shot or aspect. Call me an idealist, but I believe that with really hard work and practice someone can improve. Otherwise, what's the point of trying? This is just my opinion and if I'm way off-base then oh well, I'll just live happily in my bubble :)

Havok
02-20-2004, 10:24 PM
i said Andy will become an all court player:wavey: BUT i'm pretty sure i stated that he won't be as good of an all court player as Federer, Safin, and Agassi. i said he'll bring his return/back/hand/volleys to another level, meaning from crap to normal. i also said he can bring them up to the level of really good, but i said it was gonna take him a long time to do that. we know Andy won't be able to be as good a player as Federer, Agassi, or Safin, but that doesn't mean he sucks or anything. he's got weapons(serve,forehand) that everyone on the tour would die to have, but he also have some pretty big holes. he's gotta learn more and more on how to defend them, and how to utilize him game to the maximum

heya
02-20-2004, 10:32 PM
Can we change the title to
"Andy is not God." :angel:

WyveN
02-20-2004, 10:51 PM
i said he'll bring his return/back/hand/volleys to another level, meaning from crap to normal.


It is normal right now. It just seems crap compared to serve/forehand.


i also said he can bring them up to the level of really good, but i said it was gonna take him a long time to do that.


Impossible, in the history of tennis there have not been cases of a player's stroke improving from "crap" to really "good" in his mid 20s.
Roddick has been hitting backhands virtually everyday for around 15 years, why would it improve?

You don't think guys like Younes have been trying to improve their backhand for the 12 years that he has been professional.


we know Andy won't be able to be as good a player as Federer, Agassi, or Safin, but that doesn't mean he sucks or anything.

It is possible, he will never be as talented as them but talent is not everything.

WyveN
02-20-2004, 10:56 PM
So you do not think Andy's at all a better volleyer than say, a year and a half ago?


Maybe marginally but he just uses his volleys in a smart way. He knows his volley restrictions and play smartly to them.


And his backhand is CERTAINLY better. I never said I expect him to be an all-court player or have a great backhand weapon, but I expect him to improve both to the point where they're not a liability like they can still be.


Andy's backhand will always be a liability as it will never be as good as the forehand. I don't see any technical improvement in Andy's backhand from 2 years ago, it has become more consistent but so has the serve/forehand and that is a case of more experience rather then significant improvements in the backhand.


As for Schuettler, I was not asking about his abysmal 2004 start but his successful 2003 season. I was just asking your opinion of why he had a good season, that is all.

Rode the confidence wave from AO 2003 where he got a bit lucky (tired Andy in SF)


I don't know, you can keep trying but I don't think you'll be able to fully convince me that with a lot of hard work someone can't improve a particular shot or aspect.


They have been working hard for 15 years, dont you think they have extracted just about all they can from their shots?

For Roddick's backhand to improve significantly he would need to do something radical in his backhand technique.

Havok
02-21-2004, 12:02 AM
It is normal right now. It just seems crap compared to serve/forehand.



Impossible, in the history of tennis there have not been cases of a player's stroke improving from "crap" to really "good" in his mid 20s.
Roddick has been hitting backhands virtually everyday for around 15 years, why would it improve?

You don't think guys like Younes have been trying to improve their backhand for the 12 years that he has been professional.


It is possible, he will never be as talented as them but talent is not everything.
WyveN, it is possible what? if you mean that him not being as talented as the 3 i mentioned, it's already pretty mcuh set in stone, not many are as talented as the 3 i have mentioned, nor will many people be as talented as they are. and as for improving shots, case in point Justine. she always had the better backhand than the forehand. people kept on playing to her forehand, and now it's turned out to me a much bigger weapon than her backhand;) everything's possible. and by "good" i mean a hard hit backhand. he does it from time to time, but he needs to do it consistently. just the fact that he's able to do it a few times shows promise, and believe me if you work your ass off on a shot, it'll improve. all depending on what you do depends on the degree of improvement on a particular shot;)

Deboogle!.
02-21-2004, 12:24 AM
Naldo I think he meant like it's possible that he can be up there and compete with them and beat them sometimes even if he's not as "naturally talented"

Havok
02-21-2004, 12:41 AM
ah i see;) but he's already done that anywaysmind you he still has to beat Safin but he's fully capable. you don't lose to someone 6-4 in the 5th set and aren't able to beat them) he just has to do it a little more. time will tell

tangerine_dream
02-21-2004, 02:09 AM
Ok, here's what Andy needs to do: he needs to figure out what it is about Tim Henman's game that gets Roger all flustered and then apply that to his own play. Viola! New Wimbeldon champion, Andy Roddick! **loud cheers** ;)

MisterQ
02-21-2004, 02:34 AM
Ok, here's what Andy needs to do: he needs to figure out what it is about Tim Henman's game that gets Roger all flustered and then apply that to his own play. Viola! New Wimbeldon champion, Andy Roddick! **loud cheers** ;)

Oh, I love the Viola! ;)

btw, Sjengster wrote an excellent paragraph or two on why Henman troubles Roger. It's in the thread on GM. Maybe we can direct Andy there.

J. Corwin
02-21-2004, 03:24 AM
Now Andy needs to persuade Tim's spirit to enter him. ;)

tangerine_dream
02-21-2004, 03:31 AM
Now Andy needs to persuade Tim's spirit to enter him. ;)

Heh, that sounds ...... kinky.

Deboogle!.
02-21-2004, 03:33 AM
lmgdfao funny mental picture

MisterQ
02-21-2004, 03:37 AM
I picture Tim "chip and charging" Andy. :lol:

Deboogle!.
02-21-2004, 03:40 AM
omggggggggg DIES

tangerine_dream
02-21-2004, 03:45 AM
"chip and charge"??? OMG :haha:

J. Corwin
02-21-2004, 10:07 AM
haha

star
02-21-2004, 11:45 AM
Oh, I love the Viola! ;)

btw, Sjengster wrote an excellent paragraph or two on why Henman troubles Roger. It's in the thread on GM. Maybe we can direct Andy there.

Yeah. I read that. It was a terrific piece. Extremely informative. Should be required reading for all.

:lol: for the Viola.

star
02-21-2004, 11:47 AM
And you guys!! Too funny!!

Sjengster
02-24-2004, 12:36 AM
Ooh, thanks very much (although with Federer and Henman being two of my favourite players, I'd hope I understood a bit about how they match up). The thing is though, it's the flat hit on Henman's forehand and the low, knifing slice on his backhand that trouble Federer, and Roddick's shots on both those wings still have too much spin and sit up too much. Henman's main serve is the kick serve, which Roddick of course can use very well, but he's not as good backing it up when he serve volleys, hence Federer feels more confident returning and passing him where he always struggles to run down good volleys from Henman. I do think that if Roddick turned into the sort of player who always pressurised Federer by attacking more and going to the net a lot he would severely trouble him, which is why I certainly hope he isn't reading this thread.

Sjengster
02-24-2004, 12:38 AM
Oh, and Roddick's returns aren't as good as Henman's. But really, if Roddick is going to turn into a great returner I reckon it'll be Nalbandian-style returning where he can hit through the ball rather than blocking it back as Henman does; it's obviously more comfortable for a single-handed backhand and it works for him against Federer, just as it works for Federer against Roddick.

Havok
02-24-2004, 01:09 AM
well Andy has a one handed backhand slice so he can start to use the slice backhand return, but it's just not his game. i've seen him use it, but very seldom. to beat Roger, Sjengster nailed it, you gotta put him under pressure and attack the net. Roddick isn't so great at that, so for now he's gotta play an impecable ground game from the baseline. very difficult to sustain for a whole entire match

J. Corwin
02-24-2004, 08:47 AM
Andy isn't likely ever to beat Roger consistently, that's just how their games match up. Maybe in the future Andy can get confident and good enough at the net.

tangerine_dream
03-22-2004, 05:02 PM
Where are we now, let's see here ....

- work on backhand CHECK (still needs improvement but was that a DTL winner we saw a few times at IW? :eek: )

- work on s/v CHECK (takes years to learn to s/v as easily as Henman but at least he's getting brave enough to rush the net, and he actually hit some terrific winners there :eek: )

- work on return of serve CHECK (his match against Dent at AO still holds as his best return game and he should commit it to memory for future reference ;) )

So far, so good.... :yeah:

Deboogle!.
03-22-2004, 05:14 PM
good points, tangy! Go Andy, keep improving!

Fumus
03-22-2004, 05:30 PM
Where are we now, let's see here ....

- work on backhand CHECK (still needs improvement but was that a DTL winner we saw a few times at IW? :eek: )

- work on s/v CHECK (takes years to learn to s/v as easily as Henman but at least he's getting brave enough to rush the net, and he actually hit some terrific winners there :eek: )

- work on return of serve CHECK (his match against Dent at AO still holds as his best return game and he should commit it to memory for future reference ;) )

So far, so good.... :yeah:


Nice Tangy but, let's look at Andy's game as a whole
Proffesor Fumus's Report Card on Andy this season

Staying Injury Free: C +
With that lower back injury that cost Andy two tournies, I would say Andy needs to be more careful or eat more greens(legumes) ;)

Winnning the Matches he is supposed to Win: B+
yea pretty good, he only lost to two people I didn't think he should have lost to Spadea and that dude at St. Jude(Enqvist..miss spell)

Beating the Marquee Players: B
With that huge win over Safin,(that really raised his grade up, it was like a C before that) two wins over Jan MG, and a win over soon to be marquee player Jochaim Johnansson .

Forehand: B-
He's been spraying a few and it has let him down at some big moments but, all in all still one of the best around

Backhand: C+
It's gotten alot better but, let's be honest it's not a great two hander like the one Agassi has...

ROS: B
Yea, this has shown alot of improvement, really the backhand side has gotten alot better(remember Pete pounded that at the US Open 2002), the forehand was never a problem really.

Serve: A
Yep...it's the best in the business still...

Movement: B
He has gotten fitter I think and that helps this alot. He is ability to move at net though is still alittle shaky.


Overall, he just nees to just keep improving and keep collecting those trophies...

Deboogle!.
03-22-2004, 05:31 PM
You graded his movement and his return HIGHER than his forehand? Uh, what??

Plus, his back only cost him one tournament, his back was not the problem in Scottsdale, his brain was (plus Spadea playing great and not going away). And even then there is no way of knowing what would have happened - Enqvist might very well have won anyway, considering how well he played. Speculation like that seems awfully counter-productive.

Point is, Andy is a better player than he was a couple of months ago. That's all that really matters. He got two huge monkeys off his back in Gambill and Safin and has shown his improvements. I don't see anything to complain about quite yet.

Fumus
03-22-2004, 05:37 PM
You graded his movement and his return HIGHER than his forehand? Uh, what??

Plus, his back only cost him one tournament, his back was not the problem in Scottsdale, his brain was (plus Spadea playing great and not going away). And even then there is no way of knowing what would have happened - Enqvist might very well have won anyway, considering how well he played. Speculation like that seems awfully counter-productive.

Point is, Andy is a better player than he was a couple of months ago. That's all that really matters. He got two huge monkeys off his back in Gambill and Safin and has shown his improvements. I don't see anything to complain about quite yet.

This is not Andy's game rated this just how I think he has done this season. His forehand is better than his movement or ROS but, I am harder grading it because it is so good. These grades are like, do I think Andy is at full potential in that area and not rated against other players if you see what I am saying. From what I have seen his forehand has been suspect at times, and that is very unlike it. All in all I think he has done good but if he was at his best he would be at number 2 in the world right now I think...

Deboogle!.
03-22-2004, 06:21 PM
aha I see.

Well its not like he's far from #2, 90 points. If he gets to the QF at Miami he will be #2. And on outdoor hard courts in Florida, even if they're slowish, Andy should be getting to the QF. So, we shall see.

Fumus
03-22-2004, 06:25 PM
aha I see.

Well its not like he's far from #2, 90 points. If he gets to the QF at Miami he will be #2. And on outdoor hard courts in Florida, even if they're slowish, Andy should be getting to the QF. So, we shall see.

Those sound like fightin words... :p

Deboogle!.
03-22-2004, 06:27 PM
Well it's true. Andy did well in Miami the first year he played there, in 2001, it was his first TMS event, his first time getting to the QF of anything - he beat Rios and Pete and at least one other good player to get to the QF, I mean really impressive stuff, and since then he's done nothing. 2002 he lost his first match to Chela and last year he barely won his first match and then lost to Todd Martin (granted, he was a little sick last year but still)... so it's time for him to step up. It's Florida, he should have good crowd support and he likes the balmy weather. No reason for him not to do well.

Fumus
03-22-2004, 06:36 PM
Well it's true. Andy did well in Miami the first year he played there, in 2001, it was his first TMS event, his first time getting to the QF of anything - he beat Rios and Pete and at least one other good player to get to the QF, I mean really impressive stuff, and since then he's done nothing. 2002 he lost his first match to Chela and last year he barely won his first match and then lost to Todd Martin (granted, he was a little sick last year but still)... so it's time for him to step up. It's Florida, he should have good crowd support and he likes the balmy weather. No reason for him not to do well.

Are you saying impressive enough so he could beat Fed ?

Deboogle!.
03-22-2004, 06:39 PM
LOL I have no clue.... both Andy and Fed were very different players 3 whole years ago!

Fumus
03-22-2004, 07:21 PM
LOL I have no clue.... both Andy and Fed were very different players 3 whole years ago!

blarg....I mean, is his play good enough there that he could be the one to step up to Roger the dominator...

Deboogle!.
03-22-2004, 07:25 PM
I don't know.. he hasn't done well at Miami in the past couple years, and we won't know til the final anyway lol.

Fumus
03-22-2004, 08:19 PM
I don't know.. he hasn't done well at Miami in the past couple years, and we won't know til the final anyway lol.

blargy blarg rar rar :timebomb:

Can he do it!!??!!

Deboogle!.
03-22-2004, 09:13 PM
CAN he? Of course!!! Will he? Not sure.