SERVING STATS of the past 22 WIMBLEDON CHAMPIONS [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

SERVING STATS of the past 22 WIMBLEDON CHAMPIONS

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 04:09 AM
Some serve stats of the past 18 Wimbledon champions. The break chances stat can be a bit misleading because someone can get down 15-40, save the break points, only to get broken after the opponent takes the AD, hence having more break points against because you were saving them in the first place. Then again, why in the hell are you getting down 0-40 Pete or Goran? :). In any case, here are the stats. Nobody dominated the 1st serve points won like Sampras. Federer has done extremely well on his second serve. Only Stich, Hewitt and Agassi in the past 15 years have been broken in the double digits.

PLAYER.....YEAR....# of GAMES SERVED...BP WON AGAINST....1st serve pts won...2nd serve points won....1st serve %...tot. % GAMES HELD...tot. % of service points won

Michael Stich....1991...132...11/45...80.3%...58.6%...56.2%...91.7%....70.8%

Andre Agassi.....1992...132...17/50...73.1%....51.7%..61.2%...87.7%....64.8%

Pete Sampras....1993...123...5/22.....85.9%....49.8%..66.9%..95.9%....73.9%

Pete Sampras....1994...106...2/22....89.8%.....55.3%..64.3%...98.1%...77.5%

Pete Sampras....1995...132...8/35.....87.3%.....53%....61.1%...93.9%...73.9%

Richard Krajicek..1996...110...6/30.....88.3%....52.7%..64.5%...91.8%...75.7%

Pete Sampras.....1997...118...2/19.....89.4%.....56%...70.4%...98.3%...79.5%

Pete Sampras.....1998...121...6/32.....89.1%....53.8%..57.7%...95%.....74.2%

Pete Sampras.....1999...101...5/18.....89.7%....50.2%..63.8%...95%.....75.4%

Pete Sampras.....2000...123...5/29.....82.7%....57.3%...65.1%...95.9%..73.8%

Goran Ivanisevic..2001...147...9/27.....85.7%....54.3%...60%.....93.9%...73.1%

Lleyton Hewitt....2002....107....11/41...78.2%....59.6%...54%....89.7%...69.6%

Roger Federer.....2003...105....8/30.....77.9%....59.3%...61.4%..92.4%...70.4%

Roger Federer.....2004...108....6/33.....77.1%....62.1%...67.2....94.4%....72.2%

Roger Federer.....2005....111....7/16.....80%......63%....64.8%...93.7%...74.0%

Roger Federer.....2006....100....4/12.....79.5%.....64%....66.5%...96%....74.3%

Roger Federer.....2007....102....7/24.....78.0%.....61%....65.1%...93%....72.1%

Rafael Nadal........2008....123....5/23.....77.7%.....62%....72.4%...96%....73.4%

Roger Federer.....2009....135....5/19.....87.5%.....61%....66.9%...96.3%..78.7%

Rafael Nadal........2010....124....7/23.....79.0%.....61.9%..68.1%...94.4%..73.6%

Novak Djokovic....2011....107...11/28...77.4%.....59%....68.5%...89.7%...71.6%

Roger Federer.....2012....133....9/31.....78.0%.....58.5%...67.3%...93.2%..72.1%

Ranked by Total % of serve points won

Pete Sampras......1997.........79.51%
Roger Federer.....2009.........78.73%
Pete Sampras......1994.........77.48%
Richard Krajicek...1996.........75.66%
Pete Sampras......1999.........75.40%
Roger Federer.....2006.........74.30%
Pete Sampras......1998.........74.17%
Roger Federer.....2005.........74.02%
Pete Sampras......1995.........73.96%
Pete Sampras......1993.........73.95%
Pete Sampras......2000.........73.84%
Rafael Nadal........2010..........73.6%
Rafael Nadal........2008..........73.37%
Goran Ivanisevic...2001.........73.14%
Roger Federer......2004.........72.18%
Roger Federer.....2007..........72.07%
Roger Federer.....2012.........72.04%
Novak Djokovic....2011........71.6%
Michael Stich......1991..........70.80%
Roger Federer.....2003.........70.72%
Lleyton Hewitt.....2002.........69.64%
Andre Agassi.......1992.........64.80%


Ranked by % of first serve points won

Pete Sampras......1994.....89.8%
Pete Sampras......1999.....89.7%
Pete Sampras......1997.....89.4%
Pete Sampras......1998.....89.1%
Richard Krajicek...1996.....88.3%
Roger Federer......2009.....87.5%
Pete Sampras......1995.....87.3%
Pete Sampras......1993.....85.9%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001.....85.7%
Pete Sampras......2000.....82.7%
Michael Stich........1991......80.3%
Roger Federer......2005.....80.0%
Roger Federer......2006.....79.5%
Rafael Nadal........2010......79.0%
Lleyton Hewitt......2002.....78.2%
Roger Federer......2007.....78.0%
Roger Federer......2012......78.0%
Roger Federer.....2003......77.9%
Rafael Nadal........2008.......77.7%
Novak Djokovic....2011......77.4%
Roger Federer.....2004......77.1%
Andre Agassi.......1992......73.1%


Ranked by % of second serve points won

Roger Federer.....2006......64.0%
Roger Federer.....2005......63.0%
Roger Federer.....2004......62.1%
Rafael Nadal.......2008......62.0%
Rafael Nadal.......2010.......61.9%
Roger Federer.....2007......61.0%
Roger Federer.....2009......61.0%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002.......59.6%
Roger Federer.....2003......59.4%
Novak Djokovic....2011......59.0%
Michael Stich........1991.......58.6%
Roger Federer.....2012........58.5%
Pete Sampras.....2000.......57.3%
Pete Sampras.....1997.......56.0%
Pete Sampras.....1994.......55.3%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001......54.3%
Pete Sampras.....1998.......53.8%
Pete Sampras....1995.......53.0%
Richard Krajicek..1996......52.7%
Pete Sampras.....1999......50.2%
Andre Agassi.....1992.......51.7%
Pete Sampras....1993.......49.8%


Ranked by total % of service games held

Pete Sampras.....1997......98.3%
Pete Sampras....1994.......98.1%
Roger Federer.....2009......96.3%
Roger Federer.....2006......96.0%
Rafael Nadal.......2008......96.0%
Pete Sampras.....2000......95.9%
Pete Sampras....1993.......95.9%
Pete Sampras.....1998......95.0%
Pete Sampras.....1999......95.0%
Roger Federer.....2004......94.4%
Rafael Nadal.......2010.......94.4%
Pete Sampras....1995.......93.9%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001......93.9%
Roger Federer.....2005......93.7%
Roger Federer.....2012......93.3%
Roger Federer.....2007......93.0%
Roger Federer.....2003......92.4%
Richard Krajicek..1996......91.8%
Michael Stich.......1991.........91.7%
Lleyton Hewitt.....2002.......89.7%
Novak Djokovic...2011.......89.7%
Andre Agassi.......1992.......87.7%


Ranked by fewest amount of times serve was broken

Pete Sampras......1994.............2
Pete Sampras......1997.............2
Roger Federer......2006.............4
Pete Sampras......1993.............5
Pete Sampras......1999.............5
Pete Sampras......2000.............5
Rafael Nadal........2008.............5
Roger Federer......2009.............5
Richard Krajicek....1996.............6
Pete Sampras......1998.............6
Roger Federer......2004.............6
Roger Federer......2005............7
Roger Federer......2007............7
Rafael Nadal........2010.............7
Pete Sampras......1995............8
Roger Federer......2003............8
Goran Ivanisevic...2001............9
Roger Federer......2012............9
Lleyton Hewitt.....2002.............11
Michael Stich......1991..............11
Novak Djokovic.....2011.............11
Andre Agassi.......1992..............17


Ranked by fewest amount of break points allowed

Roger Federer.....2006...................12
Roger Federer.....2005...................16
Pete Sampras.....1999...................18
Pete Sampras.....1997...................19
Roger Federer.....2009...................19
Pete Sampras....1993....................22
Pete Sampras....1994....................22
Rafael Nadal.......2008...................23
Rafael Nadal........2010..................23
Roger Federer.....2007...................24
Goran Ivanisevic..2001..................27
Novak Djokovic....2011..................28
Pete Sampras.....2000...................29
Richard Krajicek..1996...................30
Roger Federer.....2003...................30
Roger Federer.....2012...................31
Pete Sampras.....1998...................32
Roger Federer.....2004...................33
Pete Sampras....1995....................35
Lleyton Hewitt....2002...................41
Michael Stich....1991.....................45
Andre Agassi.....1992....................50



Hewitt and Federer use the return of service a lot more than Sampras, Becker, Krajicek, Goran, etc. of the mid 90's since the speed of the court has been slowed down and the returner has more of a chance. Hewitt and Federer served a lot less than everyone else except Sampras of '94 since he was breaking and holding serve. Sampras of 1999 had a retirement by Flip. Had Flip not retired, Sampras probably would've come close to 120 serve games for that year as well.

***A note about Pete's dominance on serve. He had a record of 58-2 from 1992-2000 where he was a SF, W, W, W, QF, W, W, W, W.

In those 60 matches, he had 11 matches where he didn't face a break point at all, and had 31 matches in all where he wasn't broken. That's about 52% of his matches in that run where he wasn't even broken. :eek:

Deboogle!.
06-20-2006, 04:15 AM
Wow. Pete. :worship: Twice won being broken twice the whole tourney :worship: :bowdown: And that is unbelievable that 3 years in a row he won winning close to 90% of his first serve points.

thanks! :)

bokehlicious
06-20-2006, 04:15 AM
Interresting stats, thanks ;)

Hawkman
06-20-2006, 04:16 AM
I am always amazed Andre won Wimbledon.

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 04:17 AM
Wow. Pete. :worship: Twice won being broken twice the whole tourney :worship: :bowdown: And that is unbelievable that 3 years in a row he won winning close to 90% of his first serve points.

thanks! :)

The man was simply unbreakable. I didn't count, but out of those 8 years or so, he had at least 7 or 8 matches where he didn't even have a BP against him which is amazing considering he didn't do too much breaking, which means he was usually serving at least 15 games or so and maybe some TB's as well.

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 04:19 AM
I am always amazed Andre won Wimbledon.

He played tremendous matches against Becker, JMAC, and Goran. He played better against them than he did against the 4 gimps he played in the first 4 rounds.

Deboogle!.
06-20-2006, 04:21 AM
The man was simply unbreakable. I didn't count, but out of those 8 years or so, he had at least 7 or 8 matches where he didn't even have a BP against him which is amazing considering he didn't do too much breaking, which means he was usually serving at least 15 games or so and maybe some TB's as well.Sigh. Pete, how I miss thee!!!

MisterQ
06-20-2006, 04:22 AM
I am always amazed Andre won Wimbledon.

Those stats make one realize how good his return game had to be! :worship:

He was really living dangerously on the serve games, missing far too many first serves for comfort, yet somehow he managed to hold in that fifth set of the final.

MisterQ
06-20-2006, 04:24 AM
Sigh. Pete, how I miss thee!!!

I really don't miss watching those kinds of serve holds. ;)

But that said, they were certainly impressive.

uglyamerican
06-20-2006, 04:36 AM
I didn't realize that Pete was much more dominant on serve than Roger.

Hawkman
06-20-2006, 04:43 AM
Those stats make one realize how good his return game had to be! :worship:

He was really living dangerously on the serve games, missing far too many first serves for comfort, yet somehow he managed to hold in that fifth set of the final.

I forgot who he had to get through

Q Becker, Boris (GER) 5 4-6 6-2 6-2 4-6 6-3
S McEnroe, John (USA) 30 6-4 6-2 6-3
W Ivanisevic, Goran (CRO) 8 6-7(10) 6-4 6-4 1-6 6-4

PamV
06-20-2006, 04:48 AM
Wow. Pete. :worship: Twice won being broken twice the whole tourney :worship: :bowdown: And that is unbelievable that 3 years in a row he won winning close to 90% of his first serve points.

thanks! :)
Stats alone don't tell the whole story. Maybe Pete's opponents weren't as tough those two years when we was only broken twice? In '97 the highest ranked opponent he faced was #18 Boris Becker. That was the year Becker retired.

Here were the guys that Pete faced in those two years you mention, '94 and '97:

Wimbledon: 20-Jun-94
R128 Palmer, Jared (USA) 57 7-6(4) 7-5 6-3
R64 Reneberg, Richey (USA) 35 6-3 6-4 6-2
R32 Adams, Chuck (USA) 72 6-1 6-2 6-4
R16 Vacek, Daniel (CZE) 51 6-4 6-1 7-6(5)
Q Chang, Michael (USA) 8 6-4 6-1 6-3
S Martin, Todd (USA) 9 6-4 6-4 3-6 6-3
W Ivanisevic, Goran (CRO) 5 7-6(2) 7-6(5) 6-0


Wimbeldon: 23-Jun-97,
R128 Tillstrom, Mikael (SWE) 54 6-4 6-4 6-2
R64 Dreekmann, Hendrik (GER) 78 7-6(2) 7-5 7-5
R32 Black, Byron (ZIM) 65 6-1 6-2 6-2
R16 Korda, Petr (CZE) 24 6-4 6-3 6-7(10) 6-7(1) 6-4
Q Becker, Boris (GER) 18 6-1 6-7(5) 6-1 6-4
S Woodbridge, Todd (AUS) 37 6-2 6-1 7-6(3)
W Pioline, Cedric (FRA) 44 6-4 6-2 6-4

PamV
06-20-2006, 04:51 AM
I didn't realize that Pete was much more dominant on serve than Roger.

I remember that well. In those days Pete's serve of 125 mph was considered extremely fast and hardly anyone was serving in that range. Now it's common.

Deboogle!.
06-20-2006, 04:54 AM
I know, Q:pStats alone don't tell the whole story. Maybe Pete's opponents weren't as tough those two years when we was only broken twice? In '97 the highest ranked opponent he faced was #18 Boris Becker. That was the year Becker retired.IMO it doesn't much matter, to lose serve only twice in 7 best-of-5 matches is really impressive, regardless of who it was against. A lot of players will lose serve once in a match even to nobodies, just out of sheer laziness. Everyone does it, even Roger quite often.

Oh, and Joe, Roger's a far better returner than Pete, so, he can get away with it :)

Hawkman
06-20-2006, 04:54 AM
W Ivanisevic, Goran (CRO) 5 7-6(2) 7-6(5) 6-0

What a heartbreaker for Goran; stoked he finally got through !

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 05:01 AM
Stats alone don't tell the whole story. Maybe Pete's opponents weren't as tough those two years when we was only broken twice? In '97 the highest ranked opponent he faced was #18 Boris Becker. That was the year Becker retired.

With only 16 seeded payers and draws ripe with upsets, slam champions faced a lot more gimps than they do now, that is for sure. But regardless, Sampras was just impossible to break on grass. There were a few times against Becker and Ivanisevic where they would have 0-40 or 15-40 on him and you knew that they were not going to break. Pete always had a higher 1st serve % at Wimby than he did at the USO. He gave opponents a chance at the USO, but at Wimbledon....

That being said, Roger's 63% winning % on 2nd serves on grass is just as impressive as Pete's 90% winning on first serves.

bandabou
06-20-2006, 05:08 AM
If Roger had Pete's serve he would be having much less trouble against Rafa...his serve is too breakable these days.

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 05:12 AM
If Roger had Pete's serve he would be having much less trouble against Rafa...his serve is too breakable these days.

If he had Pete's serve, he might never lose. :) The rest of his game other than volleying is so much better, especially the return games.

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 05:21 AM
The man was simply unbreakable. I didn't count, but out of those 8 years or so, he had at least 7 or 8 matches where he didn't even have a BP against him which is amazing considering he didn't do too much breaking, which means he was usually serving at least 15 games or so and maybe some TB's as well.

He had a record of 58-2 from 1992-2000 where he was a SF, W, W, W, QF, W, W, W, W.

In those 60 matches, he had 11 matches where he didn't face a break point at all, and had 31 matches in all where he wasn't broken. That's about 52% of his matches in that run where he wasn't even broken. :eek:

Mimi
06-20-2006, 06:35 AM
i miss pete :wavey:

Hawkman
06-20-2006, 06:48 AM
I have come to respect and admire Pete but at the time hated him (In a sport's way).

Watching him beat my FAV's hurt (Agassi, Martin; even Rafter and Goran); damn the Ace.

Mimi
06-20-2006, 06:55 AM
then i guess you hate roger now ;)?
I have come to respect and admire Pete but at the time hated him (In a sport's way).

Watching him beat my FAV's hurt (Agassi, Martin; even Rafter and Goran); damn the Ace.

Hawkman
06-20-2006, 07:01 AM
I don't hate Roger; he isn't beating anyone I am a fan of (sans Agassi; but I didn't really think Andre would pull that off). Maybe seeing Roddick win one of those Wimby's would have been cool, but him beating Philippoussis ? Safin ? Baghdatis (Who?)?

But

I am starting to pay attention to the Rafa / Federer hype. I'd like too see Rafa coninue his dominance over him. (It isn't a rivalry until Federer start's actually winning some)

stebs
06-20-2006, 08:05 AM
Personally I think Federer '05 and Sampras '94 are the two most impressive years. Shows how great a cluthc server Sampras was if you needed reminding. broken 2 times out of 22 break points. Damn!

Magical Trevor
06-20-2006, 09:05 AM
Yeah... I'd rate Sampras as the best clutch server ever.. the amount of times he'd just pull out an ace on breakpoint was ridiculous.

I'm actually surprised to see that he was broken at all.

stebs
06-20-2006, 09:23 AM
Yeah... I'd rate Sampras as the best clutch server ever.. the amount of times he'd just pull out an ace on breakpoint was ridiculous.

I'm actually surprised to see that he was broken at all.
Well, getting broken twice in a tournament is almost impossible to avoid. Imagine this game by Sampras:

First serve - great return - volley - great pass 0-15
First serve - Ace 15-15
Second serve - good return winner 15-30
Second serve - deep return - short rally - returner hits a winner 15-40
First serve - Ace 30-40
Second serve - return - volley - pass - Break!!

I know Sampras didn't give out too many points on his first serve but get a point of his first serve in a game and then get a couple of second serves, hit some good shots and he's broken. It has to happen sometimes. Even Pistol Pete isn't perfect.

uNIVERSE mAN
06-20-2006, 10:33 AM
I didn't realize that Pete was much more dominant on serve than Roger.

the surface is slower now, serve is less effective.

DrJules
06-20-2006, 12:17 PM
Some serve stats of the past 15 Wimbledon champions. The break chances stat can be a bit misleading because someone can get down 15-40, save the break points, only to get broken after the opponent takes the AD, hence having more break points against because you were saving them in the first place. Then again, why in the hell are you getting down 0-40 Pete or Goran? :). In any case, here are the stats. Nobody dominated the 1st serve points won like Sampras. Federer has done extremely well on his second serve. Only Stich, Hewitt and Agassi in the past 15 years have been broken in the double digits.

PLAYER..............YEAR......... BP WON AGAINST.........1st serve pts won........2nd serve points won


Pete Sampras....1993...5/22.....85.9%....49.8%
Pete Sampras....1994...2/22....89.8%.....55.3%
Pete Sampras....1995...8/35.....87.3%.....53%
Pete Sampras.....1997...2/19.....89.4%.....56%
Pete Sampras.....1998...6/32.....89.1%.....53.8%
Pete Sampras.....1999...5/18.....89.7%.....50.2%
Pete Sampras.....2000...5/29.....82.7%.....57.3%
Roger Federer.....2003....8/30.....77.9%.....59.3%
Roger Federer.....2004....6/33.....77.1%......62.1%
Roger Federer.....2005....7/16.....80%.........63%



Interesting to note that in all years Pete was better than Roger on 1st serve, but Roger was better than Pete on 2nd serve. The differential between 1st and 2nd serve shows how dependent Pete was on his 1st serve. However, it is noticable in 2000 that Pete had his lowest success rate on 1st serve, but highest success rate on 2nd serve.

There are, of course, problems comparing the 90's with recent years. Wimbledon through changes to balls and grass have deliberately slowed conditions so that people could actually watch tennis instead of serving contests. In all honesty, how many people really thought matches between Sampras and Ivanisevic matches at Wimbledon were very watchable.

A key figure missing is % of first serves in court.

DrJules
06-20-2006, 12:24 PM
I really don't miss watching those kinds of serve holds. ;)

But that said, they were certainly impressive.

Tennis at Wimbledon in the 90's was incredibly boring and numerous watchers who went to Wimbledon felt that they were not getting value for money with the serve domination. The time the ball was in play in some matches was incredibly limited.

wimbledonfan
06-20-2006, 04:43 PM
Oh How I miss Pete .

I'll admit that Rogers base line game is better than Petes but Petes game would have been good enough to beat Rafa on any surface except clay . I think Rafas kryptonite would have been Pete .

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 04:48 PM
Interesting to note that in all years Pete was better than Roger on 1st serve, but Roger was better than Pete on 2nd serve. The differential between 1st and 2nd serve shows how dependent Pete was on his 1st serve. However, it is noticable in 2000 that Pete had his lowest success rate on 1st serve, but highest success rate on 2nd serve.

There are, of course, problems comparing the 90's with recent years. Wimbledon through changes to balls and grass have deliberately slowed conditions so that people could actually watch tennis instead of serving contests. In all honesty, how many people really thought matches between Sampras and Ivanisevic matches at Wimbledon were very watchable.

A key figure missing is % of first serves in court.

I was going to add that, but I got lazy. :) Federer's success on 2nd serves is quite amazing as the 2nd serve is quite vunerable on the grass.

The tennis between Sampras and Goran was not very palatable, but their matches always had another element of interest going for them which was, "Who is going to blink first?" It was always Goran doing the blinking other than his 1992 match against Pete where he put on one of the greatest serving exhibitions of all time.

Yes, tennis at Wimby is much more watchable now. :)

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 04:53 PM
Well, getting broken twice in a tournament is almost impossible to avoid. Imagine this game by Sampras:

First serve - great return - volley - great pass 0-15
First serve - Ace 15-15
Second serve - good return winner 15-30
Second serve - deep return - short rally - returner hits a winner 15-40
First serve - Ace 30-40
Second serve - return - volley - pass - Break!!

I know Sampras didn't give out too many points on his first serve but get a point of his first serve in a game and then get a couple of second serves, hit some good shots and he's broken. It has to happen sometimes. Even Pistol Pete isn't perfect.

True, you are bound to play a not so good game every once in a while and it will happen that your opponent plays a good return game at the same time. Sampras was rarely broken in that scenario you mentioned though other than against Agassi and once against Goran. Goran played one of the greatest return games ever against Pete hitting 4 return winners in one game. Most of the games that Pete was broken was because there were a lot of 2nd serves, good returns at the feet that were sent into the net or half-volleyed to a spot on the court where the returner could then take a rip. It was very hard to hit a passing shot winner against Pete on grass which would be different now with the ball sitting up more and with better racquet technology.

R.Federer
06-20-2006, 06:06 PM
Sampras 89%?? Sick!!!!

DrJules
06-20-2006, 06:07 PM
Michael Stich.....1991...11/45...80.3%...58.6%
Andre Agassi.....1992...17/50...73.1%....51.7%
Pete Sampras....1993...5/22.....85.9%....49.8%
Pete Sampras....1994...2/22....89.8%.....55.3%
Pete Sampras....1995...8/35.....87.3%.....53%
Richard Krajicek..1996...6/30.....88.3%....52.7%
Pete Sampras.....1997...2/19.....89.4%.....56%
Pete Sampras.....1998...6/32.....89.1%.....53.8%
Pete Sampras.....1999...5/18.....89.7%.....50.2%
Pete Sampras.....2000...5/29.....82.7%.....57.3%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001...9/27.....85.7%.....54.3%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002....11/41...78.2%.....59.6%
Roger Federer.....2003....8/30.....77.9%.....59.3%
Roger Federer.....2004....6/33.....77.1%......62.1%
Roger Federer.....2005....7/16.....80%.........63%


What was the % of all serves held in each of the last 15 years and was it easier to hold serve in the past?

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 09:45 PM
What was the % of all serves held in each of the last 15 years and was it easier to hold serve in the past?

You want me to quit my job? :)

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 10:09 PM
Updated with 1st serve %'s.

Michael Stich.....1991...56.2%
Andre Agassi.....1992....61.2%
Pete Sampras....1993....66.9%
Pete Sampras....1994....64.3%
Pete Sampras....1995....61.1%
Richard Krajicek..1996...64.5%
Pete Sampras.....1997...70.4%
Pete Sampras.....1998...57.7%
Pete Sampras.....1999...63.8%
Pete Sampras.....2000...65.1%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001...60%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002....54%
Roger Federer.....2003....61.4%
Roger Federer.....2004....67.2
Roger Federer.....2005....64.8

Federerhingis
06-20-2006, 10:24 PM
Updated with 1st serve %'s.

Michael Stich.....1991...56.2%
Andre Agassi.....1992....61.2%
Pete Sampras....1993....66.9%
Pete Sampras....1994....64.3%
Pete Sampras....1995....61.1%
Richard Krajicek..1996...64.5%
Pete Sampras.....1997...70.4%
Pete Sampras.....1998...57.7%
Pete Sampras.....1999...63.8%
Pete Sampras.....2000...65.1%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001...60%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002....54%
Roger Federer.....2003....61.4%
Roger Federer.....2004....67.2
Roger Federer.....2005....64.8

Goes to show how much more effective his first serve was during his nearly sublime season. Well overall he was winning more points on his first serve in '04 and holding more easily, at least it seemed like it. '05 Wasn't too far off. :p

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2006, 11:08 PM
What was the % of all serves held in each of the last 15 years and was it easier to hold serve in the past?


Here it is. TOTAL # OF GAMES and TOTAL % OF GAMES HELD. You can't really extrapolate since this is the greatest server of all time i.e. Sampras skewing the data as well as Goran and Krajicek, but yes, it was generally easier to hold back then.

Michael Stich....1991...132...91.7%
Andre Agassi.....1992...132...87.7%
Pete Sampras....1993...123...95.9%
Pete Sampras....1994...106...98.1%
Pete Sampras....1995...132...93.9%
Richard Krajicek..1996...110...91.8%
Pete Sampras.....1997...118...98.3%
Pete Sampras.....1998...121...95%
Pete Sampras.....1999...101...95%
Pete Sampras.....2000...123...95.9%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001...147...93.9%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002....107...89.7%
Roger Federer.....2003...105....92.4%
Roger Federer.....2004...108....94.4%
Roger Federer.....2005....111...93.7%

idolwatcher1
06-20-2006, 11:31 PM
NYCtennisfan, great job on the stats... thank you!! :worship:

NYCtennisfan
06-21-2006, 04:49 PM
80% won on 1st serves and 60% won on 2nd serves with a 60%-65% 1st serve % is what Federer is going to be after.

DrJules
06-21-2006, 06:41 PM
80% won on 1st serves and 60% won on 2nd serves with a 60%-65% 1st serve % is what Federer is going to be after.

Could you imagine a server with a 1st serve like Sampras and 2nd serve like Federer. It would be a nightmare for other players.

MisterQ
06-21-2006, 07:47 PM
Sampras' second serve was incredible too. Countless times he would pound an ace or service winner on his second serve --- the placement was extraordinary, and it really flew through the court.

Federer backs up his second serves beautifully, of course... but I wouldn't say the serve itself is better than Sampras'.

NYCtennisfan
06-21-2006, 09:23 PM
Sampras had the best 2nd serve I have ever seen. With inferior racquet technology, he usued to hit the 2nd serve consistently in the 100-108 mph range.

Federer has a great 2nd serve and places the 2nd serve better than anyone ever except for maybe Sampras. Placement wise, they have the best 2nd serves I have ever seen.

Federer does a great job hitting his 1st FH or slicing the BH and hitting the next FH which allows him to win so many points on the 2nd. Watching a lot of his matches, he rarely just puts the 2nd serve in the box and starts the rally.

DrJules
06-21-2006, 09:31 PM
Sampras had the best 2nd serve I have ever seen. With inferior racquet technology, he usued to hit the 2nd serve consistently in the 100-108 mph range.


But have racket changes aided the server or receiver more?

I was actually surprised the Sampras 2nd serve winning % was not higher.

NYCtennisfan
06-21-2006, 09:38 PM
But have racket changes aided the server or receiver more?

I was actually surprised the Sampras 2nd serve winning % was not higher.

Both really, I was just talking about how he was able to control those 100-110 mph 2nd serves so well with inferior racquet technology.

Roddick has a great 2nd serve as well, but backs it up poorly.

angiel
06-22-2006, 12:10 AM
Stats alone don't tell the whole story. Maybe Pete's opponents weren't as tough those two years when we was only broken twice? In '97 the highest ranked opponent he faced was #18 Boris Becker. That was the year Becker retired.

Here were the guys that Pete faced in those two years you mention, '94 and '97:

Wimbledon: 20-Jun-94
R128 Palmer, Jared (USA) 57 7-6(4) 7-5 6-3
R64 Reneberg, Richey (USA) 35 6-3 6-4 6-2
R32 Adams, Chuck (USA) 72 6-1 6-2 6-4
R16 Vacek, Daniel (CZE) 51 6-4 6-1 7-6(5)
Q Chang, Michael (USA) 8 6-4 6-1 6-3
S Martin, Todd (USA) 9 6-4 6-4 3-6 6-3
W Ivanisevic, Goran (CRO) 5 7-6(2) 7-6(5) 6-0


Wimbeldon: 23-Jun-97,
R128 Tillstrom, Mikael (SWE) 54 6-4 6-4 6-2
R64 Dreekmann, Hendrik (GER) 78 7-6(2) 7-5 7-5
R32 Black, Byron (ZIM) 65 6-1 6-2 6-2
R16 Korda, Petr (CZE) 24 6-4 6-3 6-7(10) 6-7(1) 6-4
Q Becker, Boris (GER) 18 6-1 6-7(5) 6-1 6-4
S Woodbridge, Todd (AUS) 37 6-2 6-1 7-6(3)
W Pioline, Cedric (FRA) 44 6-4 6-2 6-4


Why dont you put out Roger opponents for us to see and you will see who played the tougher opponents PamV?

heya
06-22-2006, 03:17 AM
How is serving badly considered "great"? If you can't move your heavy legs, how is that considered "backing it up"? This is about fitness and laziness.
It's certainly not careful and great effort.

NYCtennisfan
06-22-2006, 04:27 AM
How is serving badly considered "great"? If you can't move your heavy legs, how is that considered "backing it up"? This is about fitness and laziness.
It's certainly not careful and great effort.

The phsycial serve itself is a great 2nd serve. He can kick it up high, he can hit it consistently over 105 mph, etc. At RG in his match against Martin, he was kicking that serve out on the AD side and sending Martin almost into the stands. Then he would hit a weak FH letting Martin back into the point. Most of the ATP would glady trade their 2nd serves in for Roddick's. It's the hitting after the 2nd serve where Roddick is not so great, but still he wins more than half of the points on the 2nd. Very few players can attack his 2nd serve right on the return, but most can hit a return to the Roddick BH and then wrestle control of the point. Roddick often runs around initial BH because he knows that's where the ball is going and hits a good inside-out FH to gain control of the point.

heya
06-22-2006, 05:17 AM
The serve speed doesn't matter if there's no placement and the player
can barely flex his legs.
He would be running so much faster if he had lost the extra 5-10 pounds and
worked on his predictable serve. He's so scared of slicing and running that he'd smack forehands and move very slowly around the court. he sometimes injured the foot). For a long time, he kept rolling his foot and falling on the ground
Look what he did in Indian Wells. Nothing.

Last year he said "I have no backhand" and of course, 2 weeks later, he gave up
in the Washington event.

stebs
06-22-2006, 11:45 AM
Why dont you put out Roger opponents for us to see and you will see who played the tougher opponents PamV?
:rolleyes: PamV's post was about Pete Sampras. It was to do with whether his draw was a factor in his phenomenal serving record of those two years in which he was broken just twice each time. It was not a comparison with Roger Federer, it was not an attempt to discredit Pete Sampras. What is wrong with you? Can you not make a post that isn't ignorant?

stebs
06-22-2006, 11:51 AM
Another interesting point that shows exactly how mentally strong and fearsome Sampras was on break points is when you compare him to someone who is no stranger to saving some himself.

In 2005 Roger Federer faced less breakpoints than any year Sampras was playing and yet he was broken triple the amount of times Sampras was.

Sampras :worship: greatest serve of all time.

NYCtennisfan
06-22-2006, 04:21 PM
Sampras greatest serve of all time.

Absolutely no doubt there. I don't know how many times he was a bit careless on the first 3 or 4 points of his serve game, got down 15-40 or 0-40 and then proceeded to get 5 straight 1st serves in and win the game.

Angle Queen
06-22-2006, 06:34 PM
Nice work on the stats, NYC. Eye-opening for sure.

Tennis at Wimbledon in the 90's was incredibly boring and numerous watchers who went to Wimbledon felt that they were not getting value for money with the serve domination. The time the ball was in play in some matches was incredibly limited.Yep.

The reason I left tennis is the 90s is/was mainly due to Sampras's boring yet utterly dominant play. Oddly, I didn't/don't feel the same about Federer's recent run of tour supremacy. Maybe it's his variety of strokes and style that have kept it...and him...interesting.

And while I know, deep down, serve percentage generally indicates/predicts success it's just a piece of the pie...and I suppose...something for us to quantitatively argue over.

Thanks again, NYC, for collating the numbers.

oneandonlyhsn
06-22-2006, 06:37 PM
Could you imagine a server with a 1st serve like Sampras and 2nd serve like Federer. It would be a nightmare for other players.

As much as I like Sampras and Roger a player like that would just ruin grass :yawn:

oneandonlyhsn
06-22-2006, 06:38 PM
:rolleyes: PamV's post was about Pete Sampras. It was to do with whether his draw was a factor in his phenomenal serving record of those two years in which he was broken just twice each time. It was not a comparison with Roger Federer, it was not an attempt to discredit Pete Sampras. What is wrong with you? Can you not make a post that isn't ignorant?

Good luck with that :wavey:

RonE
06-22-2006, 09:08 PM
NYCTennisfan, king of stats :worship:

Since you brouight up the serving stats I think another interesting thing to see would be the percentage of points won when serving for each champion- not the perecentage of service games won, but out of all the points played behind the serve how many were won as a percent. Using your statistics I have reached the following results:

Player... Year... 1st serve points won... 2nd serve points won... 1st serve %... 2nd serve %... % of serve points won...

Michael Stich... 1991... 80.30%... 58.60%... 56.20%... 43.80%... 70.80%...
Andre Agassi... 1992... 73.10%... 51.70%... 61.20%... 38.80%... 64.80%...
Pete Sampras... 1993... 85.90%... 49.80%... 66.90%... 33.10%... 73.95%...
Pete Sampras... 1994... 89.80%... 55.30%... 64.30%... 35.70%... 77.48%...
Pete Sampras... 1995... 87.30%... 53.00%... 61.10%... 38.90%... 73.96%...
Richard Krajicek... 1996... 88.30%... 52.70%... 64.50%... 35.50%... 75.66%...
Pete Sampras... 1997... 89.40%... 56.00%... 70.40%... 29.60%... 79.51%...
Pete Sampras... 1998... 89.10%... 53.80%... 57.70%... 42.30%... 74.17%...
Pete Sampras... 1999... 89.70%... 50.20%... 63.80%... 36.20%... 75.40%...
Pete Sampras... 2000... 82.70%... 57.30%... 65.10%... 34.90%... 73.84%...
Goran Ivanisevic... 2001... 85.70%... 54.30%... 60.00%... 40.00%... 73.14%...
Lleyton Hewitt... 2002... 78.20%... 59.60%... 54.00%... 46.00%... 69.64%...
Roger Federer... 2003... 77.90%... 59.30%... 61.40%... 38.60%... 70.72%...
Roger Federer... 2004... 77.10%... 62.10%... 67.20%... 32.80%... 72.18%...
Roger Federer... 2005... 80.00%... 63.00%... 64.80%... 35.20%... 74.02%...

The one which struck me the most was Sampras in 1997- 80% of total service points won!!! That means for every four points he wins on serve he only dropped one. On average that is the equivalent of holding every single one of your service games to 15. How sick is that???!!! :eek:

RonE
06-22-2006, 09:13 PM
Looking at the stats again I find it a bit odd that Sampras won less points on the second serve than does Federer. When Pete was playing at his best there was almost no difference between the first and the second and he hit a whole bunch of 2nd serve aces too. I suppose the main factor could be that Roger is steadier with his groundstrokes and can still set the point up behind a solid 2nd serve to take control of the point with greater margin for error than Pete did.

NYCtennisfan
06-22-2006, 10:22 PM
Looking at the stats again I find it a bit odd that Sampras won less points on the second serve than does Federer. When Pete was playing at his best there was almost no difference between the first and the second and he hit a whole bunch of 2nd serve aces too. I suppose the main factor could be that Roger is steadier with his groundstrokes and can still set the point up behind a solid 2nd serve to take control of the point with greater margin for error than Pete did.


That was the one stat that I was going to add but left it to you. :worship:
You are right about Pete and the 2nd serve. Coming to net on the 2nd is riskier than staying back and hitting groundstrokes, especially when your groundstrokes on grass are better than everyone else's.

almouchie
06-22-2006, 11:15 PM
Sigh. Pete, how I miss thee!!!


just my sentiment as well
I have a few of his matches recorded
I dont have the guts to see them again
as I miss him playing a lot
Nobody from the current crop even comes close to make all my juices flowing

a true Legend
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

NYCtennisfan
06-22-2006, 11:31 PM
Nobody from the current crop even comes close to make all my juices flowing


:eek:

almouchie
06-22-2006, 11:54 PM
yeah probably the wrong choice of words or expression

but when pete was playing i would be nervous, my stomache in nuts, anxious
& adrelanie flowing
& now I just watch without any vested interest
just for the tennis
I try to route for a player as it gets boring not being involved somehow

NYCtennisfan
06-23-2006, 12:15 AM
^:) I could never root for Pete and I watched many, many matches of his live at the Open. But there was this about him: if he got a lead, he was not going to give it away. If you weren't on your game, you stood ZERO chance of even making it competitive. If you were playing really well, there was still a good chance you were going to lose.

wimbledonfan
06-23-2006, 05:07 AM
I agree with NYC on why Federer has a better second serve % of games held . It's much more difficult to play a second serve when you're serving and volleying . This is what is amazing about Pete , is that his serve was so effective that he could come to the net on his second serve .

On a side note , is it me or did Roddick add a new shot to his serving arsenal ?
I mean at the french open against Martin , I noticed that he was kicking the ball very high to his backhand . Maybe Roddick realizes that if he improves his kick serve on the ad court then his chances against Fed will increase . I don't recall his kick serve being that good in the past and quite frequently he would hit it flat down the middle .

NYCtennisfan
07-15-2006, 05:47 PM
Updated for Wimbledon 2006

Longshot
07-15-2006, 07:02 PM
Updated for Wimbledon 2006
Thanks NYC. :wavey:

And the update shows Federer's win this year was his most dominant yet, despite the tough draw, with the fewest service games played (meaning lots of games won returning), the lowest number service breaks suffered, and a record low number of bps faced. What's the secret? Looks to me like it is Fed's amazing success with the second serve.

Not much sign of Fed going flat after the RG loss, is there? ;)

NYCtennisfan
07-15-2006, 07:12 PM
Thanks NYC. :wavey:

And the update shows Federer's win this year was his most dominant yet, despite the tough draw, with the fewest service games played (meaning lots of games won returning), the lowest number service breaks suffered, and a record low number of bps faced. What's the secret? Looks to me like it is Fed's amazing success with the second serve.

Not much sign of Fed going flat after the RG loss, is there? ;)

You're welcome. :)

Federer has proved that his way of going about grasscourt tennis in the current era is the correct way. His superior all-around game allows him to win a very high % of points on his second serve along with this well placed and 100 mph second serves. Why allow someone to pass you with one shot when your superior game allows you to win most of the points?

Interestingly enough, Federer was only broken once meaningfully and that was by Nadal in the 2nd set in the final. The Mahut match was all but over when he got broken serving for the match, Ancic broke down two breaks and 2 sets, and Nadal broke down 2 breaks in the 4th set when Federer served for the match.

DrJules
07-15-2006, 07:13 PM
Thanks NYC. :wavey:

And the update shows Federer's win this year was his most dominant yet, despite the tough draw, with the fewest service games played (meaning lots of games won returning), the lowest number service breaks suffered, and a record low number of bps faced. What's the secret? Looks to me like it is Fed's amazing success with the second serve.

Not much sign of Fed going flat after the RG loss, is there? ;)

Could you image if they made the Wimbledon courts faster. :eek: My overall feeling is that for the event as a whole there are more serve breaks than 10 years ago.

DrJules
09-16-2006, 02:56 PM
Are there serving figures of a similar nature for the other 3 grand slams?

croat123
09-16-2006, 03:43 PM
goran also had 208 aces when he won it :)

NYCtennisfan
09-16-2006, 04:56 PM
Goran was the king of aces. That placement on the serve out wide and down the T on the AD side was just impossible to deal with. A lot of players hit bigger than he did back because of the superior racquet technology, but nobody had the ability to hit that lefty serve with power and precision for aces like Goran.

Jimnik
09-16-2006, 10:08 PM
Michael Stich....1991...132...11/45...80.3%...58.6%...56.2%...91.7%
Andre Agassi.....1992...132...17/50...73.1%....51.7%..61.2%...87.7%
Pete Sampras....1993...123...5/22.....85.9%....49.8%..66.9%..95.9%
Pete Sampras....1994...106...2/22....89.8%.....55.3%..64.3%...98.1%
Pete Sampras....1995...132...8/35.....87.3%.....53%....61.1%...93.9%
Richard Krajicek..1996...110...6/30.....88.3%....52.7%..64.5%...91.8%
Pete Sampras.....1997...118...2/19.....89.4%.....56%...70.4%...98.3%
Pete Sampras.....1998...121...6/32.....89.1%....53.8%..57.7%...95%
Pete Sampras.....1999...101...5/18.....89.7%....50.2%..63.8%...95%
Pete Sampras.....2000...123...5/29.....82.7%....57.3%...65.1%...95.9%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001...147...9/27.....85.7%....54.3%...60%.....93.9%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002....107....11/41...78.2%....59.6%...54%....89.7%
Roger Federer.....2003...105....8/30.....77.9%....59.3%...61.4%..92.4%
Roger Federer.....2004...108....6/33.....77.1%....62.1%...67.2....94.4%
Roger Federer.....2005....111....7/16.....80%......63%....64.8%...93.7%
Roger Federer.....2006....100....4/12.....79.5%.....64%....66.5%...96%

This is exactly why the modern generation is so much more watchable than the 90s. One never knew how good Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker and Krajicek were at hitting groundstrokes.

I'm surprised by Sampras's stats. I remembered him getting about 65% 1st serves in, winning 100% 1st serve points, 70% 2nd serve points and holding about 100% of his service games.

croat123
09-16-2006, 10:19 PM
This is exactly why the modern generation is so much more watchable than the 90s. One never knew how good Sampras, Ivanisevic, Becker and Krajicek were at hitting groundstrokes.

I'm surprised by Sampras's stats. I remembered him getting about 65% 1st serves in, winning 100% 1st serve points, 70% 2nd serve points and holding about 100% of his service games.
but the personalities were so much better in the 90s. the only players now that are interesting off court are marat and dima

+ wimbledon will be wimbledon. it's supposed to be about big serves and players coming to net. other tournaments definately showed that these players were world class off the ground

GlennMirnyi
09-16-2006, 10:32 PM
Pete was SUPREME. That's the guy I miss the most on tour.

spencercarlos
09-17-2006, 02:26 AM
I remember that well. In those days Pete's serve of 125 mph was considered extremely fast and hardly anyone was serving in that range. Now it's common.
Its not the speed but the accuracy and placement, and precision of course that made Sampras´s serve the best serve ever, lets not even mention the second serve.

wimbledonfan
09-17-2006, 02:27 AM
Nice post Carlos . That's much better !!

spencercarlos
09-17-2006, 02:31 AM
Nice post Carlos . That's much better !!
I give credit where its due :p

Jimnik
09-17-2006, 04:21 AM
but the personalities were so much better in the 90s. the only players now that are interesting off court are marat and dima
I couldn't agree less. Sampras had no personality.


+ wimbledon will be wimbledon. it's supposed to be about big serves and players coming to net. other tournaments definately showed that these players were world class off the ground
I guess so. But players are proving, nowadays, that it's possible to be good on a fast surface without serving 50 aces a match. Nobody in the 90s was as good at returning as Federer, Nalbandian and Hewitt. Agassi had a good aggressive return but he wasn't as good at getting the return back in play.

NYCtennisfan
06-18-2007, 10:32 PM
Bump.

RagingLamb
06-18-2007, 10:53 PM
those are unbelievable numbers from Pete.

I don't think anyone is ever going to come close to him on grass.

Roddickominator
06-18-2007, 11:26 PM
Pete will be back next year to show these young guys how grass court tennis is played.

NYCtennisfan
06-19-2007, 02:03 AM
those are unbelievable numbers from Pete.

I don't think anyone is ever going to come close to him on grass.

Overall numbers when combining 1st and 2nd serves have Fed just about equal with Sampras at least for last year. Not coming in on the 2nd serve makes Federer a lot harder to break than if he did.

World Beater
06-22-2007, 04:01 AM
Sampras had the best 2nd serve I have ever seen. With inferior racquet technology, he usued to hit the 2nd serve consistently in the 100-108 mph range.

Federer has a great 2nd serve and places the 2nd serve better than anyone ever except for maybe Sampras. Placement wise, they have the best 2nd serves I have ever seen.

Federer does a great job hitting his 1st FH or slicing the BH and hitting the next FH which allows him to win so many points on the 2nd. Watching a lot of his matches, he rarely just puts the 2nd serve in the box and starts the rally.

pete played with a small head, which means( if i am not mistaken) that you generally have more control over the ball and generally have better feel. Your strike zone is diminished however. compare this to say agassi who was using a very large head size w/ a light frame. pete's second serve was very precise and he could hit it anywhere but i dont find his kick serve to be as good as federer's or roddick's in the ad court especially. But this could be the new strings giving players more spin on the ball.

goran and krajicek were rhythm servers. Once they found it, they were impossible to stop. even better than sampras and they could hit aces in bunches. Pete had the most reliable serve...it was almost robotic. he could reproduce every twitch and movement in his service motion when he needed it most.

interestingly enough federer used to be very much like sampras earlier on in his career(wimbledon 03-05) in terms of saving breakpoints. i have seen it countless times against top returners but now his return games are so good that he almost doesnt need to concentrate as hard as he used to in order to hold serve.

i dont want to sound so negative about pete's competition, but goran et al were not consistent returners of anybody's serve, let alone pete sampras. They could crack a few return winner here and there or even occasionally string some...But only agassi of that generation compares favorably to hewitt, nalbandian, safin etc of the current one

Forehander
06-22-2007, 05:06 AM
if roddick goes back to the 90's he would be able to win tons of wimbledons easily.

trixtah
06-22-2007, 08:24 AM
if roddick goes back to the 90's he would be able to win tons of wimbledons easily.

uh...wtf

Anyway, those are some great numbers by Pete

stebs
06-22-2007, 08:39 AM
A great thread to bump and I remember it well. Federer and Pete have pretty equally good numbers overall what with pete's first serve stats and Roger's second.

I do feel that there is some nostalgia which is really making people go a little overboard with the Sampras second serve though. His first serve was phenomenal and yes his second was great as well but it wasn't quite the monster many people are portraying it as.

RagingLamb
06-22-2007, 02:58 PM
^ still better than any other player's

Forehander
06-22-2007, 03:43 PM
uh...wtf

Anyway, those are some great numbers by Pete

you got a problem?

NYCtennisfan
06-22-2007, 04:51 PM
^ still better than any other player's

Yes, it was better than anyone else's.

Wnat Fed has going for him is that with the current conditons prevailing at Wimby, he has the perfect gameplan on the 2nd serve and nobody else can execute it like him. To win 64% of yor points on the 2nd serve over 7 matches on a fast surface is incredible.

stebs
06-22-2007, 04:54 PM
^ still better than any other player's

Yes I guess it was still the best second serve and especially when he needed it he used it well but still a hugely overrated component of his game. Nowadays it is spoken about as if it was comprable to Karlovic' first serve or something.

RagingLamb
06-22-2007, 06:47 PM
Yes I guess it was still the best second serve and especially when he needed it he used it well but still a hugely overrated component of his game. Nowadays it is spoken about as if it was comprable to Karlovic' first serve or something.

yes, people do tend to exagerate.

DrJules
07-22-2007, 01:21 PM
Needs updating for 2007.

stebs
07-22-2007, 02:01 PM
Federer's serving stats of '07 will be interesting. A lot less impressive than former years in many aspects but he was more clutch this year than ever before. It sounds like a good thing but it was the first year where it needed to be.

NYCtennisfan
12-28-2007, 06:18 PM
Federer's serving stats of '07 will be interesting. A lot less impressive than former years in many aspects but he was more clutch this year than ever before. It sounds like a good thing but it was the first year where it needed to be.

Updated. Interestingly enough, the stats are just about the same other than the final Nadal match. Then again, he played one less match. Overall still quite impressive.

MrChopin
12-28-2007, 09:18 PM
Great job finding these stats; there are two that initially jump out at me. First, Sampras losing only 2 breaks in '94 and '97, more impressive as he faced 19 and 22 break points those years. Perhaps even more impressive are Federer's 2006 stats. He only faced 12 break points in 7 matches, 3 of which were in the final against Nadal. In his first six matches, he was broken only twice and yielded only 9 break point opportunities. This was against Gasquet, Henman, Mahut, Berdych, Ancic, and Bjorkman. That's just remarkable.

NYCtennisfan
12-28-2007, 09:22 PM
Great job finding these stats; there are two that initially jump out at me. First, Sampras losing only 2 breaks in '94 and '97, more impressive as he faced 19 and 22 break points those years. Perhaps even more impressive are Federer's 2006 stats. He only faced 12 break points in 7 matches, 3 of which were in the final against Nadal. In his first six matches, he was broken only twice and yielded only 9 break point opportunities. This was against Gasquet, Henman, Mahut, Berdych, Ancic, and Bjorkman. That's just remarkable.

Indeed. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, he was only broken meaningfully ONCE in the tournament. The matches were essentially over against Mahut and Ancic and the final break Nadal got against him was when that match was basically over. The 2nd serve numbers are astounding.

I'm working on USO numbers right now. Suffice it to say, there are a LOT more breaks and break point opps. compared with what one gets at Wimby, but Sampras in 1993 won a higher % of his 1st serve points than in any of his dominant Wimby runs.

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2008, 04:39 AM
Bump.

NYCtennisfan
07-17-2008, 10:20 AM
Here are Nadal's numbers:

# of service games: 123
BP's converted against: 5/23
% of 1st serve pts won: 77.7%
% of 2nd serve pts won: 62%
1st serve %: 72.4%
Tot % of games held: 96%

NYCtennisfan
07-17-2008, 10:21 AM
All in all, he was only broken meaningfully 3 times: once against Gulbis, once against Youz early in the 1st set when the match hadn't been 'decided' yet, and once against Federer.

A_Skywalker
07-17-2008, 10:36 AM
All in all, he was only broken meaningfully 3 times: once against Gulbis, once against Youz early in the 1st set when the match hadn't been 'decided' yet, and once against Federer.

For someone that doesnt serve so good this is brilliant. The real play where a player works to win his point with rallies, not serve after serve after serve... :worship:

Damn
07-17-2008, 10:40 AM
3rd best total percentage of games held tied with Federer in 2006. He was only broken 3 times. This crearly shows that a certain mug was totally right when he said:

"Nadull's serve isn't even decent. Bolandri's one is way better"

:haha: :haha:

That demonstrates that you know about tennis the same that Felipe Massa knows about driving in rain.

rafa the best
07-17-2008, 12:02 PM
These stats are just AMAZING.

Xenosys
07-17-2008, 12:05 PM
For someone that doesnt serve so good this is brilliant. The real play where a player works to win his point with rallies, not serve after serve after serve... :worship:

I have to say, Nadal's consistency was extremely impressive. When watching every one of his matches at Wimbledon, there was hardly ever a point where I felt he was going to dump a shot into the net, or hit it long/wide unnecessarily. Very good.

richie21
07-17-2008, 12:09 PM
if roddick goes back to the 90's he would be able to win tons of wimbledons easily.

:haha::haha::haha:

Albatros99
07-17-2008, 02:14 PM
I didn't realize that Pete was much more dominant on serve than Roger.

Well he didn't have to face someone half as good as Nadal. That helped a lot. I guess Nadal has broken Federer more times than the rest of his rivals combined.

MacTheKnife
07-17-2008, 03:25 PM
The man was simply unbreakable. I didn't count, but out of those 8 years or so, he had at least 7 or 8 matches where he didn't even have a BP against him which is amazing considering he didn't do too much breaking, which means he was usually serving at least 15 games or so and maybe some TB's as well.

You are so right, and it was always that 2nd serve that amazed me. You began to expect those big 1st serves, but every time he'd hit those 120+ 2nd serves, I'd go OMG this guy is unreal. He defined the phrase "you are only as good as your 2nd serve".

MacTheKnife
07-17-2008, 03:31 PM
Well he didn't have to face someone half as good as Nadal.

Nadal is indeed great, but this is a stretch.. half as good ???

Albatros99
07-17-2008, 03:58 PM
Nadal is indeed great, but this is a stretch.. half as good ???

Sampras faced a lot of just serve and volley players. He was another one too, but just better. Those rivals may have been fearsome when serving but thier defensive game let a lot to be desired. In fact, their only chance of breaking was going for broke with their return anytime Sampras didn't hit a perfect serve. Nadal on the other hand has many more weapons and doesn't need to play that high risk return game to have a chance of breaking Sampras. For instance, I am pretty sure that Nadal would had passed Sampras far more often than Ivanisevic and the likes when he ventured to the net, not to mention that he would had won 90% of the rallies, whereas against those other serve and volley players Sampras at least shared the points.

MacTheKnife
07-17-2008, 05:05 PM
I guess you're right since we just determined in another thread that Nadal would dismantle God, I suppose he'd have no problem taking out Sampras. If he's better than God, he must be twice as good as anybody Pete played. I should have read the God thread before my comment. I was confused. :confused:

NYCtennisfan
07-17-2008, 05:07 PM
You are so right, and it was always that 2nd serve that amazed me. You began to expect those big 1st serves, but every time he'd hit those 120+ 2nd serves, I'd go OMG this guy is unreal. He defined the phrase "you are only as good as your 2nd serve".

Indeed. HIs 2nd serves at 107, 108, 109 mph near the lines were incredible and he was doing that 10-12 years ago with inferior racket and string technology.

NYCtennisfan
06-20-2009, 04:35 AM
Bump.

General Suburbia
06-20-2009, 05:48 AM
I didn't realize that Pete was much more dominant on serve than Roger.
It goes both ways. Sampras' serve was that much harder to break because he played on faster grass. Opponents have a better chance at Federer's serve because of the surface, balls, and racket all help the returner.

JediFed
06-20-2009, 06:23 AM
The difference is in the first serve. Sampras had the best first serve, and Federer has the best second serve.

NYCtennisfan
07-06-2009, 02:09 AM
Bump. Federer had won the most % of pts off of his 1st amongst his 6 titles. All in all, Federer won a higher % of points off of his serve (first and second aggregately) than any other Wimbledon champion. On the flip side, Federer broke less often in this Wimbledon than any of his other title runs.

FedFan_2007
07-06-2009, 03:23 AM
Bump. Federer had won the most % of pts off of his 1st amongst his 6 titles. All in all, Federer won a higher % of points off of his serve (first and second aggregately) than any other Wimbledon champion. On the flip side, Federer broke less often in this Wimbledon than any of his other title runs.

In other words, a typical Sampras match in the 1990s. :shrug:

NYCtennisfan
07-06-2009, 04:01 AM
In other words, a typical Sampras match in the 1990s. :shrug:

Pretty much. He only broke 6 times in rounds 4, QF, SF, and F, but then again, he faced some huge serves.

RafitoGoat
11-09-2009, 01:58 AM
Some serve stats of the past 18 Wimbledon champions. The break chances stat can be a bit misleading because someone can get down 15-40, save the break points, only to get broken after the opponent takes the AD, hence having more break points against because you were saving them in the first place. Then again, why in the hell are you getting down 0-40 Pete or Goran? :). In any case, here are the stats. Nobody dominated the 1st serve points won like Sampras. Federer has done extremely well on his second serve. Only Stich, Hewitt and Agassi in the past 15 years have been broken in the double digits.

PLAYER.....YEAR....# of GAMES SERVED...BP WON AGAINST....1st serve pts won...2nd serve points won....1st serve %...tot. % GAMES HELD

Michael Stich....1991...132...11/45...80.3%...58.6%...56.2%...91.7%
Andre Agassi.....1992...132...17/50...73.1%....51.7%..61.2%...87.7%
Pete Sampras....1993...123...5/22.....85.9%....49.8%..66.9%..95.9%
Pete Sampras....1994...106...2/22....89.8%.....55.3%..64.3%...98.1%
Pete Sampras....1995...132...8/35.....87.3%.....53%....61.1%...93.9%
Richard Krajicek..1996...110...6/30.....88.3%....52.7%..64.5%...91.8%
Pete Sampras.....1997...118...2/19.....89.4%.....56%...70.4%...98.3%
Pete Sampras.....1998...121...6/32.....89.1%....53.8%..57.7%...95%
Pete Sampras.....1999...101...5/18.....89.7%....50.2%..63.8%...95%
Pete Sampras.....2000...123...5/29.....82.7%....57.3%...65.1%...95.9%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001...147...9/27.....85.7%....54.3%...60%.....93.9%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002....107....11/41...78.2%....59.6%...54%....89.7%
Roger Federer.....2003...105....8/30.....77.9%....59.3%...61.4%..92.4%
Roger Federer.....2004...108....6/33.....77.1%....62.1%...67.2....94.4%
Roger Federer.....2005....111....7/16.....80%......63%....64.8%...93.7%
Roger Federer.....2006....100....4/12.....79.5%.....64%....66.5%...96%
Roger Federer.....2007....102....7/24.....78.0%.....61%....65.1%...93%
Rafael Nadal.......2008....123....5/23.....77.7%.....62%....72.4%...96%
Roger Federer.....2009....135....5/19.....87.5%.....61%....66.9%...96.3%

Hewitt and Federer use the return of service a lot more than Sampras, Becker, Krajicek, Goran, etc. of the mid 90's since the speed of the court has been slowed down and the returner has more of a chance. Hewitt and Federer served a lot less than everyone else except Sampras of '94 since he was breaking and holding serve. Sampras of 1999 had a retirement by Flip. Had Flip not retired, Sampras probably would've come close to 120 serve games for that year as well.

***A note about Pete's dominance on serve. He had a record of 58-2 from 1992-2000 where he was a SF, W, W, W, QF, W, W, W, W.

In those 60 matches, he had 11 matches where he didn't face a break point at all, and had 31 matches in all where he wasn't broken. That's about 52% of his matches in that run where he wasn't even broken. :eek:

Hard to base anything on the serves held percentage, because a lot of these guys win points off the ground. Conversely Federer didn't play particularly well off the ground in Wimbledon 2009 yet his serve came up with the goods.

FedFan_2007
11-09-2009, 02:45 AM
50 aces says it all in the Wimbledon final :worship: GOAT :worship: I want to have his babies!

RafitoGoat
11-09-2009, 02:49 AM
50 aces says it all in the Wimbledon final :worship: GOAT :worship: I want to have his babies!

Kidnapping is difficult to get away with, but hope it works out.

Start da Game
11-09-2009, 05:50 AM
pete's serve was all about swing and precise placement, he never tried too hard to impart pace in his serve.......many people misread his serve and compare it to roddick's or karlovic's which is an insult to the great man........

petar_pan
11-09-2009, 10:32 AM
What a heartbreaker for Goran; stoked he finally got through !

this guy doen't know, but gorand had mutch bigger chance in 1998 final.
in that match he had 2 set point for 2:0 lead on sampras 2nd serve and both times he hit top of the net (it would be clear passings) and he hads oone little out at 8:8.after that goran was serving so he would have set point on his serve. after that match he said he would win that if he go to 2:0 lead (i am sure he would).
that was one of his last chance to win wimbledon and he would take that if would 2:0.he said that santance. i am sure he would.

cakedraw
11-09-2009, 10:35 AM
Nadal had the best first serve percentage :shrug:

jonathancrane
11-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Well he didn't have to face someone half as good as Nadal.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Post of the decade

laurie-1
11-09-2009, 12:23 PM
Interestig second serve stats. Sampras is known to have the best second serve in history but in reality it's not as consistent as Federer's. Keep in mind Federer's played on a slower grass court against much better returners.
What baffles me is Nadal's percentage of games held. 96?Are you serious ATP? What happens to those much better returners when they play Nadal I will never understand.

Its an interesting observation. It kind of reflects Sampras' game style and state of mind during matches.

I think Leif Shiras sums it up best when he said that when it came to Sampras, statistics can be misleading because it will show he was getting 50% serves in (he was referring to the match against Haas at the 2002 US Open) but when it came to the crunch points he got every 1st serve in the box.

So I would imagine the same applies here, when it came to important 2nd serve points at vital moments, Pete probably won around 80% of those if not more. Thats something the likes of Jim Courier and Andre Agassi often bemoaned. So that's why Pete's 2nd serve is considered the best there was - not from just a pure statistical analysis in this situation.

RafitoGoat
11-09-2009, 12:25 PM
I agree, Sampras hit unreturnables (and sometimes aces) on 2nd serves on breakpoints. The guy returning felt unlucky because it would only happen on breakpoints, often Agassi experienced this.

NYCtennisfan
06-21-2010, 03:27 AM
2010 bump.

andy neyer
06-21-2010, 03:35 AM
I agree, Sampras hit unreturnables (and sometimes aces) on 2nd serves on breakpoints. The guy returning felt unlucky because it would only happen on breakpoints, often Agassi experienced this.

Yup. I hated it that.

emotion
06-21-2010, 03:38 AM
Hewitt at 54%??? Wow, for him that is high

NYCtennisfan
06-19-2011, 09:23 AM
Bump for SW19, 2011.

stebs
06-19-2011, 11:17 AM
Great thread for debunking the Sampras 2nd serve myth which has grown out of his legacy. Sampras served bombs on his second a couple of times in a couple of matches for sure but for the most part, his second serve was not actually that great (in comparison with other slam champs). On the other hand, his ability to bring his A game on break points is illuminated. Facing so many break points from so many different players and being broken only twice in '94 and '97 is phenomenal. It's nice to have statistics to show us which parts of tennis folklore have a basis in fact and which do not.

Topspindoctor
06-20-2011, 03:51 AM
Sampras' serve benefitted from faster surfaces, so his record isn't that impressive compared to today.

In fact Olderer had better serve than Sampras in 2005-2008 and vastly superior ground strokes.

Olderer serve at his peak on 90's grass = as unbreakable as Sampras and better groundies.

If Sampras played on today's surfaces against today's returners with his high risk game and his shitty endurance, he would win no majors at all. He got lucky to play in an era where even all serve mugs like Krajicek and Ivanisievic won slams.

NYCtennisfan
07-17-2011, 02:12 AM
Bump after Novak Djokovic's win. Novak ranks highly in % of second serve points won but relatively lowly in most of the other categories. He did, much like Hewitt and Agassi, break his opponents' serves often and therefore only served 107 times overall, tied in the top 5 for fewest service games served during the tournament.

mark73
07-17-2011, 02:34 AM
These stats explain why I find sampras to be the all time most boring player.

MIMIC
07-17-2011, 05:05 AM
Pete Sampras......1994.............2
Pete Sampras......1997.............2
Roger Federer......2006.............4
Pete Sampras......1993.............5
Pete Sampras......1999.............5
Pete Sampras......2000.............5
Rafael Nadal........2008.............5
Roger Federer......2009.............5
Richard Krajicek....1996.............6
Pete Sampras......1998.............6
Roger Federer......2004.............6
Roger Federer......2005............7
Roger Federer......2007............7
Rafael Nadal........2010.............7
Pete Sampras......1995............8
Roger Federer......2003............8
Goran Ivanisevic...2001............9
Lleyton Hewitt.....2002.............11
Michael Stich......1991..............11
Novak Djokovic.....2011.............11
Andre Agassi.......1992..............17

HOLY SHIT :eek: :eek:

Echoes
07-17-2011, 12:40 PM
These stats explain why I find sampras to be the all time most boring player.

If I get your point, that's because he was too good. :p


The media considered Pete as boring because he didn't have the flamboyant lifestyle that his doped main rival had. Lendl had the same problem. True tennis lovers liked him.


Only losing 2 service games in 7 best of 5 matches against top grass court players is amazing considering the fact he didn't have the same booming first serve as Ivanisevic for instance.

samanosuke
07-17-2011, 02:19 PM
Interesting how everybody's calling Goran just a server and nothing more... and he isn't neither in the top 5 in any of these statistics

mystic ice cube
07-18-2011, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the stats, interesting read.

NYCtennisfan
07-13-2012, 10:46 PM
Federer with weaker serving stats than usual which is to be expected since he struggled with power on his first serve throughout the tournament. If before the tournament one were told that Federer's serve wouldn't be dominant, one would assume that Federer had little chance of winning the title.


His total service points won is the lowest % of all of his 7 wins.
His first serve points won % is slightly above 2003 and 2004 %s.
His second serve points won % is the lowest of all of his 7 wins.
His total % of service games won is slightly above 2007 and 2003 %s.
He was broken more times this fortnight than in any other of his title campaigns.
He allowed more break points this Wimbledon than in any other title campaign other than in 2004.



Ranked by Total % of serve points won

Pete Sampras......1997.........79.51%
Roger Federer.....2009.........78.73%
Pete Sampras......1994.........77.48%
Richard Krajicek...1996.........75.66%
Pete Sampras......1999.........75.40%
Roger Federer.....2006.........74.30%
Pete Sampras......1998.........74.17%
Roger Federer.....2005.........74.02%
Pete Sampras......1995.........73.96%
Pete Sampras......1993.........73.95%
Pete Sampras......2000.........73.84%
Rafael Nadal........2010..........73.6%
Rafael Nadal........2008..........73.37%
Goran Ivanisevic...2001.........73.14%
Roger Federer......2004.........72.18%
Roger Federer.....2007..........72.07%
Roger Federer.....2012.........72.04%
Novak Djokovic....2011........71.6%
Michael Stich......1991..........70.80%
Roger Federer.....2003.........70.72%
Lleyton Hewitt.....2002.........69.64%
Andre Agassi.......1992.........64.80%


Ranked by % of first serve points won

Pete Sampras......1994.....89.8%
Pete Sampras......1999.....89.7%
Pete Sampras......1997.....89.4%
Pete Sampras......1998.....89.1%
Richard Krajicek...1996.....88.3%
Roger Federer......2009.....87.5%
Pete Sampras......1995.....87.3%
Pete Sampras......1993.....85.9%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001.....85.7%
Pete Sampras......2000.....82.7%
Michael Stich........1991......80.3%
Roger Federer......2005.....80.0%
Roger Federer......2006.....79.5%
Rafael Nadal........2010......79.0%
Lleyton Hewitt......2002.....78.2%
Roger Federer......2007.....78.0%
Roger Federer......2012......78.0%
Roger Federer.....2003......77.9%
Rafael Nadal........2008.......77.7%
Novak Djokovic....2011......77.4%
Roger Federer.....2004......77.1%
Andre Agassi.......1992......73.1%


Ranked by % of second serve points won

Roger Federer.....2006......64.0%
Roger Federer.....2005......63.0%
Roger Federer.....2004......62.1%
Rafael Nadal.......2008......62.0%
Rafael Nadal.......2010.......61.9%
Roger Federer.....2007......61.0%
Roger Federer.....2009......61.0%
Lleyton Hewitt....2002.......59.6%
Roger Federer.....2003......59.4%
Novak Djokovic....2011......59.0%
Michael Stich........1991.......58.6%
Roger Federer.....2012........58.5%
Pete Sampras.....2000.......57.3%
Pete Sampras.....1997.......56.0%
Pete Sampras.....1994.......55.3%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001......54.3%
Pete Sampras.....1998.......53.8%
Pete Sampras....1995.......53.0%
Richard Krajicek..1996......52.7%
Pete Sampras.....1999......50.2%
Andre Agassi.....1992.......51.7%
Pete Sampras....1993.......49.8%


Ranked by total % of service games held

Pete Sampras.....1997......98.3%
Pete Sampras....1994.......98.1%
Roger Federer.....2009......96.3%
Roger Federer.....2006......96.0%
Rafael Nadal.......2008......96.0%
Pete Sampras.....2000......95.9%
Pete Sampras....1993.......95.9%
Pete Sampras.....1998......95.0%
Pete Sampras.....1999......95.0%
Roger Federer.....2004......94.4%
Rafael Nadal.......2010.......94.4%
Pete Sampras....1995.......93.9%
Goran Ivanisevic..2001......93.9%
Roger Federer.....2005......93.7%
Roger Federer.....2012......93.3%
Roger Federer.....2007......93.0%
Roger Federer.....2003......92.4%
Richard Krajicek..1996......91.8%
Michael Stich.......1991.........91.7%
Lleyton Hewitt.....2002.......89.7%
Novak Djokovic...2011.......89.7%
Andre Agassi.......1992.......87.7%


Ranked by least amount of times serve was broken

Pete Sampras......1994.............2
Pete Sampras......1997.............2
Roger Federer......2006.............4
Pete Sampras......1993.............5
Pete Sampras......1999.............5
Pete Sampras......2000.............5
Rafael Nadal........2008.............5
Roger Federer......2009.............5
Richard Krajicek....1996.............6
Pete Sampras......1998.............6
Roger Federer......2004.............6
Roger Federer......2005............7
Roger Federer......2007............7
Rafael Nadal........2010.............7
Pete Sampras......1995............8
Roger Federer......2003............8
Goran Ivanisevic...2001............9
Roger Federer......2012............9
Lleyton Hewitt.....2002.............11
Michael Stich......1991..............11
Novak Djokovic.....2011.............11
Andre Agassi.......1992..............17


Ranked by fewest amount of break points allowed

Roger Federer.....2006...................12
Roger Federer.....2005...................16
Pete Sampras.....1999...................18
Pete Sampras.....1997...................19
Roger Federer.....2009...................19
Pete Sampras....1993....................22
Pete Sampras....1994....................22
Rafael Nadal.......2008...................23
Rafael Nadal........2010..................23
Roger Federer.....2007...................24
Goran Ivanisevic..2001..................27
Novak Djokovic....2011..................28
Pete Sampras.....2000...................29
Richard Krajicek..1996...................30
Roger Federer.....2003...................30
Roger Federer.....2012...................31
Pete Sampras.....1998...................32
Roger Federer.....2004...................33
Pete Sampras....1995....................35
Lleyton Hewitt....2002...................41
Michael Stich....1991.....................45
Andre Agassi.....1992....................50

TennisOnWood
07-13-2012, 11:14 PM
Are these all numbers from ATP archieve? Cause in many mathches they are wrong