Which claycourter in Fed's 1/2 can beat Fed? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Which claycourter in Fed's 1/2 can beat Fed?

Halba
05-31-2006, 08:53 AM
which one has the most chance of beating Fed?

I think Fed will lose before he faces Nadal. Conditions are not favourable for Fed's style of play.

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 08:55 AM
If you think Fed will lose before the final, then come out and say who you will think is going to do it.

Halba
05-31-2006, 08:57 AM
some options

Gaudio, Nalbandian, Robredo, Massu, Davydenko...all are in red hot form at the moment...if they have a good day can beat Fed on this surface..the only surface that renders him human

Halba
05-31-2006, 08:59 AM
i think the one with the best chance is probably Gaudio..he can go really cold or really hot...plus he's won this tourney before and is really good on this surface

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 09:01 AM
some options

Gaudio, Nalbandian, Robredo, Massu, Davydenko...all are in red hot form at the moment...if they have a good day can beat Fed on this surface..the only surface that renders him human

Do you watch tennis? :confused:

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 09:02 AM
Gaudio is not in red hot form at all, it's not the Euro summer of 2005. I worry about how much tennis you really watch to come up with the red hot statement. Massu lost to Gimelstob and will probably lose to Mirnyi.

How is Robredo going to beat Federer? He doesn't beat the players above him and he knows his role as the bitch to Federer, Nadal etc etc.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 09:03 AM
some options

Gaudio, Nalbandian, Robredo, Massu, Davydenko...all are in red hot form at the moment...if they have a good day can beat Fed on this surface..the only surface that renders him human


Gaudio and Massu are in red hot form?

The more pressing question here is what you consider as red hot form

Nathaliia
05-31-2006, 09:07 AM
Either Montanes or Vassallo Arguello. Vamos chicos!

I'm also anxious about rematch for Wimbledon, against Falla.

Scotso
05-31-2006, 09:27 AM
I think Davydenko can do it.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 10:21 AM
Nicky D for me as well

Him and Rafa to face off in the final

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:23 AM
Nicky D for me as well

Him and Rafa to face off in the final

:haha:

Scotso
05-31-2006, 10:24 AM
:haha:

You just think that any opinion other than your own is stupid. :shrug:

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:24 AM
:haha:

That is what I am like when I read most of your posts junior.

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:25 AM
Nicky D for me as well

Him and Rafa to face off in the final

I am not sure if the PMK will be the one doing it. He will get too tight in this situation.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:26 AM
You just think that any opinion other than your own is stupid. :shrug:

I don't recall saying it was stupid. I just laughed. Found it more funny than stupid.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:27 AM
That is what I am like when I read most of your posts junior.

Is this evidence the old man laughs and has a sense of humour?

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:29 AM
Is this evidence the old man laughs and has a sense of humour?

That is a dangerous allegation.

allero
05-31-2006, 10:29 AM
I don't think Davydenko can do it even though I'd like to see it.. I don't really have an explanation for this, but having seen their last couple of matches it just seems like he's lacking something to seriously trouble Federer..Even when Federer was playing far below his standard at Melbourne, he managed to escape with a win.
Robredo and Massu - I really don't fancy their chances vs. Federer at all which leaves Nalbandian and Gaudio from the guys mentioned..David is very much capable of beating him though Roger is a much better performer at the later stages of a Grand Slam (they'd be meeting in the semifinals). Gaudio if playing his best tennis can trouble Federer on clay, but Federer seems to have his number as well and Gaston is not playing that well right now anyway (even though I liked what I saw in his first match).
I would put my money on either Nalbandian and Berdych who is on fire right now. Federer might get lucky and draw Kiefer in the 4th round, but Berdych seems to match up well with Kiefer which makes me hopeful we'll see a match between him and Federer.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 10:31 AM
:haha:


I was being serious

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:31 AM
I would put my money on either Nalbandian and Berdych who is on fire right now. Federer might get lucky and draw Kiefer in the 4th round, but Berdych seems to match up well with Kiefer which makes me hopeful we'll see a match between him and Federer.

Berdych wins one match impressively and all of a sudden he is 'on fire.'

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:32 AM
I was being serious

Sans doute.

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:35 AM
Berdych wins one match impressively and all of a sudden he is 'on fire.'

Says the man who wanted the job as the Almagro media manager for hype.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:38 AM
Says the man who wanted the job as the Almagro media manager for hype.

This the same Almagro that could very easily have won the first set against Nadal, squandering set point there and came so close to beating Federer?! I would say that Almagro went on to have a rather good few weeks after I suggested him as a contender for RG. The same can't be said of Coria who you claimed was 3rd or 4th favourite for RG.

allero
05-31-2006, 10:38 AM
Berdych wins one match impressively and all of a sudden he is 'on fire.'
I saw most of his matches last week (against Nalbandian, Kiefer and Volandri) and he played very well. Right now he is once again destroying Volandri who is a very capable clay courter...I wonder if David or Nadal would prefer playing Berdych or Federer? Obviously David didn't come close to his best level in his match against Berdych last week, but Berdych is looking scarily good right now.
Obviously Berdych is very streaky, but once he gets hot, he is almost unbeatable as we saw in Paris (indoors) last year.
It may seem strange, but if Nadal doesn't win RG this year, I think it will be Berdych.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:38 AM
Says the man who wanted the job as the Almagro media manager for hype.

And at least Almagro had won a tournament, rather than a match!

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:41 AM
I saw most of his matches last week (against Nalbandian, Kiefer and Volandri) and he played very well. Right now he is once again destroying Volandri who is a very capable clay courter

It may seem strange, but if Nadal doesn't win RG this year, I think it will be Berdych.

Ok...

Beating Nalbandian, Kiefer and Volandri last week is nothing astounding. And celebrating him destroying Volandri once again....well if that floats your boat, by all means go ahead.

It seems very strange...

Scotso
05-31-2006, 10:41 AM
And at least Almagro had won a tournament, rather than a match!

:yawn:

Do you really buy your own BS?

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:42 AM
This the same Almagro that could very easily have won the first set against Nadal, squandering set point there and came so close to beating Federer?! I would say that Almagro went on to have a rather good few weeks after I suggested him as a contender for RG. The same can't be said of Coria who you claimed was 3rd or 4th favourite for RG.

Is Coria playing RG?

Fact is you jumped on a bandwagon and proclaimed Almagro as some huge star, when he has been around a while and has got some good recent results. Still not a contender no matter how much spin you try and put on it.

Then again you are so clouded and think Berdych is a hack. He is up and down, but hey he can't play.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 10:43 AM
This the same Almagro that could very easily have won the first set against Nadal, squandering set point there and came so close to beating Federer?! I would say that Almagro went on to have a rather good few weeks after I suggested him as a contender for RG. The same can't be said of Coria who you claimed was 3rd or 4th favourite for RG.


I think the point G Dub was trying to make, he can correct me if I am wrong is that you probably would not have heard of who Almagro was this time last year

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:44 AM
Obviously Berdych is very streaky, but once he gets hot, he is almost unbeatable as we saw in Paris (indoors) last year.


And when Federer is hot? And Nalbandian? Nadal? Almagro? Safin? Gasquet? Gaudio? Gonzalez? Most top players when 'hot' are very formidable...Berdych is no different.

Winning GS titles is rarely the product of just a 'hot streak.'

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:45 AM
I think the point G Dub was trying to make, he can correct me if I am wrong is that you probably would not have heard of who Almagro was this time last year

That is correct.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:46 AM
I think the point G Dub was trying to make, he can correct me if I am wrong is that you probably would not have heard of who Almagro was this time last year

If that's his point then he's chatting out of his backside.

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:49 AM
If that's his point then he's chatting out of his backside.

The above is a field you have a Ph.D in.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:50 AM
Is Coria playing RG?

Fact is you jumped on a bandwagon and proclaimed Almagro as some huge star, when he has been around a while and has got some good recent results. Still not a contender no matter how much spin you try and put on it.

Then again you are so clouded and think Berdych is a hack. He is up and down, but hey he can't play.

Oh dear.

Are you trying to suggest that if Coria was playing, then he would still be the 3rd or 4th favourite for the title as you claimed earlier? Hmm...good luck getting a sane person to agree with you on that.

I didn't proclaim Almagro as a huge star but I said he could be a contender for the title. Again, this claim was supported by his subsequent results.

Where did I denounce Berdych's abilities?

almouchie
05-31-2006, 10:51 AM
stilla bit early
but some of these players may be dangerous for Fed
not until they get thru thier matches first
Nalbandian has a tought 2nd r with Gasquet
Massu has to get past Mirnyi who has had some ok results on clay
Robredo is in form & confidence, but cannt trouble Federer enough to beat him

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:51 AM
The above is a field you have a Ph.D in.

:haha:

Perhaps I did make that sense of humour allegation too soon.

allero
05-31-2006, 10:51 AM
And when Federer is hot? And Nalbandian? Nadal? Almagro? Safin? Gasquet? Gaudio? Gonzalez? Most top players when 'hot' are very formidable...Berdych is no different.

Winning GS titles is rarely the product of just a 'hot streak.'

I would take Berdych playing his best over Federer playing his best on CLAY.
Nadal is obviously looking the strongest, but Berdych gave him a very hard time in the final of Bastaad last year.
Gonzalez, Gaudio, Gasquet, Almagro are not comparable to a player of Berdych's magnitude..
or let's say it this way:I'd only take a 100 % Nadal and a 100 % Coria over a 100 % Berdych on clay...I'm not a fan of Berdych anyway, but I very much respect him as a player.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:54 AM
I would take Berdych playing his best over Federer playing his best on CLAY.


First of all, I disagree.

More importantly, it's irrelevant. A match rarely has 2 players performing at the absolute top of their games.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 10:56 AM
I am not sure if the PMK will be the one doing it. He will get too tight in this situation.


I can't deny the mental aspect of his game, but the Aus Open this year showed he had the ability at least to push Federer, frankly how he didn't force a 5th set I don't know, had him on the ropes for a lot of that match

Clay will level it out a bit more, but SF is a long way away so won't get too ahead of myself

Halba
05-31-2006, 10:56 AM
the point is the only surface where other players have a chance of beating Fed is clay, and RG Clay makes him even more human. Just treat him like any other Claycourter which he essentially is on Clay as his Backhand really loses steam. His FH is his main weapon on clay, and he lacks staying power in long rallies. Also volleying does not work on RG, the courts are too slow, and he can get passed. Federer is starting to become prone to errors at inopportune moments, one of these days he is gonna crack. He just scraped through Australian Open playing at about 30-40% below his best, and relying on opponent's screw ups. Something tells me opponents won't keep screwing up against him and will beat him one day

Action Jackson
05-31-2006, 10:57 AM
Oh dear.

Are you trying to suggest that if Coria was playing, then he would still be the 3rd or 4th favourite for the title as you claimed earlier? Hmm...good luck getting a sane person to agree with you on that.

I didn't proclaim Almagro as a huge star but I said he could be a contender for the title. Again, this claim was supported by his subsequent results.

Where did I denounce Berdych's abilities?

There are no what ifs here, considering the weasel is not playing this tournament, then it really is irrelevant.

Yes, you did with the whole contender stuff and deliberate misuse of contender to suit your own viewpoint about Almagro.

Ah! the whole Berdych/Gonzalez thing in relation to Nadal. I said they offered differing things without putting crap on their games, but this is the man who won't answer a simple yes/no question, so I am not surprised you forgot.

kittysweet
05-31-2006, 10:57 AM
sexy to humble jesusfed in the final in straights

allero
05-31-2006, 10:58 AM
First of all, I disagree.

More importantly, it's irrelevant. A match rarely has 2 players performing at the absolute top of their games.
You were asking about all kinds of players and what would be happening if they were "hot".. That's why I made this comparison.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 10:59 AM
I can't deny the mental aspect of his game, but the Aus Open this year showed he had the ability at least to push Federer, frankly how he didn't force a 5th set I don't know, had him on the ropes for a lot of that match

Clay will level it out a bit more, but SF is a long way away so won't get too ahead of myself

Referring to a match where Federer played some of his worst tennis of the last 3 years and Davydenko still couldn't even push him to a fifth set.

Will bet you any sum of money you can afford that Davydenko will not make the final!

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 11:01 AM
You were asking about all kinds of players and what would be happening if they were "hot".. That's why I made this comparison.

I was merely pointing out there that there that other players can be close to unbeatable when 'hot' also. That is not a phenomenon exclusive to Berdych.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 11:02 AM
Referring to a match where Federer played some of his worst tennis of the last 3 years and Davydenko still couldn't even push him to a fifth set.

Will bet you any sum of money you can afford that Davydenko will not make the final!


When Fed doesn't win in straight sets it is because he plays like shit, not because his opponent was playing well

sorry my bad

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 11:04 AM
When Fed doesn't win in straight sets it is because he plays like shit, not because his opponent was playing well

sorry my bad

You obviously watched the match. You denying Federer played like shit by his standards?

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 11:05 AM
When Fed doesn't win in straight sets it is because he plays like shit, not because his opponent was playing well

sorry my bad

My offer of a bet for Davydenko making the final? Or do you not really belive in what you say?

Norrage
05-31-2006, 11:05 AM
When Fed doesn't win in straight sets it is because he plays like shit, not because his opponent was playing well

sorry my bad
No. Fed plays bad because when his opponent plays very good he forces fed to make errors and puts a lot of pressure on him...
Sure Fed might play less good than he sometimes might, but dont solely look at fed :(

World Beater
05-31-2006, 11:07 AM
i just dont see davy or berdman taking out fed.

davy wont do it. Berdman plays too flat on this surface to be consistent over five sets against federer.

nalbandian over five sets on clay, i dont see either. He has too many ups and downs.

robredo is the player of the moment. But he has a terrible record against fed.

I think ferrero is the only one who can "beat" federer. They have always had good battles, and if he can magically find form, he has a shot to beat him.

Davy, t rob, and berd have the best chance of pushing fed.

allero
05-31-2006, 11:09 AM
I was merely pointing out there that there that other players can be close to unbeatable when 'hot' also. That is not a phenomenon exclusive to Berdych.
Yeah and I was trying to say that most of these players even when playing their best do not come close to Berdych when he is doing so.
For example Gonzo is not nearly as complete a player as Berdych as his backhand is comaratively "weak"..Berdych is a player capable of mixing up his shots well enough preventing Gonzo from dominating with his forehand.
Gonzo can dominate matches with his forehand, but only against players who let him dominate with his FH. Anyway, it's just my opinion. You have a different one, that's fine.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 11:16 AM
My offer of a bet for Davydenko making the final? Or do you not really belive in what you say?

Will extend that offer to anyone that believes Davydenko will make the final of RG.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 11:21 AM
You obviously watched the match. You denying Federer played like shit by his standards?

So you denying Davydenko didn't play well? If it is circular arguments you like I'm game


My offer of a bet for Davydenko making the final? Or do you not really belive in what you say?

1) First of all I am merely giving an opinion to the thread starters question, I'm not declaring to the world that Davydenko is a lock to beat Federer

2) Even if I wanted to take up your offer, 10 quid aint enough to pay for my lunch tomorrow let alone make it worth my while ;)

vincayou
05-31-2006, 11:53 AM
Davydenko is exactly the kind of player that I don't see beating Fed once in his life. He's good but not good enough and his force is his regularity, what means that he will never be much better or worse than usual. And Federer knows him well.

Berdych, on the other hand can do it with his high risk game even if it's gonna be more difficult to win a 3 setter.

Nalbandian of course can do it.

Nathaliia
05-31-2006, 12:31 PM
The question is 'claycourter', I wouldn't call Berdych or Nalbandian 'claycourters' more all-round courters, but that's just my humble opinion :) And who knows what a Chucho can do on his good day :smoke:

its.like.that
05-31-2006, 01:05 PM
The question is 'claycourter', I wouldn't call Berdych or Nalbandian 'claycourters' more all-round courters, but that's just my humble opinion :) And who knows what a Chucho can do on his good day :smoke:

Berdych is a claycourt specialist.

And you don't have to be Spanish astrophycisist to understand this.

Jimnik
05-31-2006, 01:17 PM
Referring to a match where Federer played some of his worst tennis of the last 3 years and Davydenko still couldn't even push him to a fifth set.

Will bet you any sum of money you can afford that Davydenko will not make the final!
It's amazing how many times Federer plays his "worst tennis ever". :rolleyes:

I'm not sure if Davydenko will make it to the semis but, if he does, I think we'll probably see Federer play some more "bad tennis".

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 01:23 PM
So you denying Davydenko didn't play well? If it is circular arguments you like I'm game




1) First of all I am merely giving an opinion to the thread starters question, I'm not declaring to the world that Davydenko is a lock to beat Federer

2) Even if I wanted to take up your offer, 10 quid aint enough to pay for my lunch tomorrow let alone make it worth my while ;)

Davydenko playing well loses to a poorly playing Federer. How does that support your argument that he is likely to beat Federer now.

Also I said I would cover any bet size you wanted to place.

Nicky D for me as well

Him and Rafa to face off in the final

You sounded quite certain there. I guess you weren't really.

Jimnik
05-31-2006, 01:26 PM
I think ferrero is the only one who can "beat" federer. They have always had good battles, and if he can magically find form, he has a shot to beat him.
As nice as that sounds, I think the odds of JC winning his way past Gaudio, Davydenko and Nalbandian are very slim.

But even if he did make it that far, he doesn't have much of a chance since his biggest weapon, his forehand, went missing 2 years ago. And even if he did have a chance and went 2-0 up in sets, he would still lose because mentally he's become so weak.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 01:28 PM
It's amazing how many times Federer plays his "worst tennis ever". :rolleyes:

I'm not sure if Davydenko will make it to the semis but, if he does, I think we'll probably see Federer play some more "bad tennis".

Yes and you would see Federer beat him again.

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 01:31 PM
Davydenko playing well loses to a poorly playing Federer. How does that support your argument that he is likely to beat Federer now.

Nope, you are the one who said Fed played poorly that night, I'm saying Davydenko didn't allow him to play his game


Also I said I would cover any bet size you wanted to place.

you couldn't afford it


You sounded quite certain there. I guess you weren't really.

Let me go back to that post you quoted now and add "IMO"

Black Adam
05-31-2006, 01:37 PM
Berdych

bad gambler
05-31-2006, 01:40 PM
Berdych


Careful now, you sound too confident

Black Adam
05-31-2006, 01:49 PM
Careful now, you sound too confident
David Nalbandian :aplot:

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 02:15 PM
you couldn't afford it




Then my family must be the only one in the Sunday Times rich list that can't.

Don't assume things...it makes you look stupid.

betterthanhenman
05-31-2006, 02:18 PM
Nope, you are the one who said Fed played poorly that night, I'm saying Davydenko didn't allow him to play his game




Davydenko isn't even close to having enough game to be able to dictate how well Federer plays.

Federer just played badly, as he sometimes does. And Davydenko wasn't good enough to take advantage.

Deea
05-31-2006, 04:02 PM
Berdych and Nalbandian! :yeah:

oneandonlyhsn
05-31-2006, 04:08 PM
Well he has a very tough draw unlike a certain someone, any lapses he will be taken out

Rogiman
05-31-2006, 06:06 PM
Berdych

Viken01
05-31-2006, 06:20 PM
Nalbandian !! :)

Merton
05-31-2006, 06:34 PM
Two players that have won against him before, Berdych and Nalbandian.

Merton
05-31-2006, 06:36 PM
Berdych is a claycourt specialist.

And you don't have to be Spanish astrophycisist to understand this.

Berdych grew up on clay but he is better on hardcourts.

Jogy
05-31-2006, 06:50 PM
Only Nalbandian can do it :) He has a good owning over Federer and annoy Federer hard when Nalbandian's head is working right way and form on day is good. :devil:

Forget about Berdychery girl :haha: he is too soft and will fall hard on a big chance. People think last time Berdych meet Federer the same: "oh Berdych won against Federer at Olympic games, he will have a chance" result was Berdychery did make two or three games whole match :lol:

dylan24
05-31-2006, 08:38 PM
roger is going to give that mullet massu a beatdown .
i can't wait.
F Massu

DrJules
05-31-2006, 09:06 PM
Most likely by clear margin - David Nalbandian.

FelipeMIA89
05-31-2006, 09:07 PM
Massu against federer!! would be a good match!

BlakeJamitis
06-01-2006, 03:13 AM
Just now checking out this thread - STR8T COMEDY!!!

federated
06-01-2006, 03:40 AM
I am not sure if the PMK will be the one doing it. He will get too tight in this situation.

totally agree. kolya is prone to the meltdown, though he does rise to the occasion against Fed. Unfortunately his best isn't good enough to produce a win even when he is on point (Australia, anyone?)

Halba
06-01-2006, 04:33 AM
Massu aint got game. But throw Koyla into the Ring with Fed on a claycourt you have a much more even match =) Koyla IS in red hot form...just won another clay court tourney..and made the SF last year(lost to a doped up Puerta so not really counting that loss!!)

Bagelicious
06-01-2006, 05:05 AM
Just now checking out this thread - STR8T COMEDY!!!

Really? I found it more str8t tedious.

betterthanhenman
06-06-2006, 03:50 PM
I think Davydenko can do it.
Still think that?

guille&tati4life
06-06-2006, 03:54 PM
I still think nalby :p

betterthanhenman
06-07-2006, 10:00 AM
Will bet you any sum of money you can afford that Davydenko will not make the final!

I could have retired on that bet! :)

betterthanhenman
06-07-2006, 10:02 AM
I still think nalby :p

It's the same old story with David.

He has a shot at beating Federer, but he can't afford to choke. My guess is that if he does get himself into a winning position, he will choke at least once.

Julio1974
06-07-2006, 11:43 AM
It's the same old story with David.

He has a shot at beating Federer, but he can't afford to choke. My guess is that if he does get himself into a winning position, he will choke at least once.

Only once? You are an optimistic !!!!!

connectolove
06-07-2006, 11:46 AM
Not one! after seeing him playing this year, there is nobody that could beat him. Rafa in the final, hopefully ... and I hope that Nalby gives him a good fight & tires him out.

betterthanhenman
06-09-2006, 12:30 PM
It's the same old story with David.

He has a shot at beating Federer, but he can't afford to choke. My guess is that if he does get himself into a winning position, he will choke at least once.

How predictable was that!